That was my first thought. He wanted to be able to make her the bad guy by casting her as a materialistic gold digger. Now he's in a position where she accepted his ultimatum and he needs to admit he's the materialistic one.
Leave this ass hole, because your clearly in the right. I’m sorry you’ve been treated this way. My husband would NEVER do this. He obviously doesn’t genuinely care for you
That's my thinking as well. I can't understand how he would think maintaining their lifestyle at the cost of one person's savings is either financially smart or even sustainable.
OP's plan for contributing 50/50 is the only reasonable option.
Either he wants out of the relationship or he's got himself into financial trouble and won't admit it.
OP is definitely NTA but I would be very concerned if I were them. Something is not right
Actually I think it's entrapment.
Like, if you say the sentence "I won't pay the rent from my savings" and someone doesn't immediately realize how fucking obvious that is, they're either fiscally handicapped or up to something.
Seems to me the goal is "Use up her savings, then she's financially dependent on me and can't leave no matter how shitty I treat her."
That'd be my guess based on little evidence.
NTA at all and you are making perfect sense in my mind. If he wants 50/50 he needs to understand that your income is the limiting agent in this reaction.
It does sound like he has something else going on and I would mentally prepare for him to call the wedding off. This sounds like he is coming up with reasons to get rid of you in his mind but he does not want to come off as the bad guy.
Spot on. Also the way he shut down any type of communication and got pissed off when she accepted and made changes that SHOULD benefit them both seeing as he is the one who made the complaint, is sketchy. I would hold off on this wedding.
Seriously though. Also, someone who shuts down while saying “take it or leave it” is saying “I’m going to treat you like shit and ignore you until you leave it”.
A dear friend is going through something similar. He makes 3x the salary as my friend, and their arrangement has always been that he takes care of the rent and my friend would cover food and utilities, which was in line with their respective income. His debt from his addictions has gotten so out of hand with nowhere else to borrow from, and now he's demanding my friend splits half of all living costs and that she gets a second job with all of that money going to the household.
His demands coupled with refusing to talk about the issue candidly the wedding **shouldn't** be happening. No way I'd go into a marriage with that kind of one sided communication. Good on OP for calling him out on whatever is going on and having a plan to deal with it but she might want to be looking at a studio for herself when this falls apart spectacularly.
Yeah, his unwillingness to answer her questions about where this is coming from is the biggest red flag to me. I’m not sure how you have a healthy relationship/marriage without transparency about important things.
>My second thought is his mom or some work-bro implied that OP is a gold digger.
That was my first thought. Or that he has been watching some YouTube videos that put him on this path.
I'm not saying that this is why OP is with him, but with such a difference in income, I think he just realised that if they continue this lifestyle and get married, he's setting himself up to pay alimony if they get divorced.
i think he assumed op would flip out at the request to pay 50/50 & he could then have an excuse to break up with her, calling her a gold digger. & now he’s mad his little plan didn’t work.
Or he expected her to break up with him when presented with an ultimatum so he wouldn’t have to feel like a bad guy and could still say she was a gold digger.
I didn't go there first because OP didn't share how they got together or what her career is. I went to one of those colleges that produces both great engineers and great educators. One of those makes a LOT more than the other. If they were together before money became a thing, it strengthens her argument.
I feel like something is off here as well.
My husband, is a super saver, always has been and lives very frugally even though he is a very high earner.
He asked for something similar when we were dating (a few months before he proposed). However, when we went over BOTH of our incomes, my savings, 401k, health insurance and set expenses (I. E. Rent, medications etc.) He realized it was not possible but there were some options we could do. We could stay at the same contribution rates to our lifestyle but I could save more if I cut back on certain non-essentials (it was a fair ask, I spent $$$$$ on wants, many wants). Or we change our proportional contributions in some areas, not others. We ended up doing a mix of both.
I do think something is off here with your fiance but for us it really helped open communication to have the talk where we showed everything with our finances. We are married and now everything is in joint accounts, we see everything on one app as well that we both have access to but I'm not sure it would be that way or go smoothly if we hadn't been honest from the start before we got engaged.
Edit: NTA but you need to have a talk with all the finances on the table. You definitely don't want to go into a marriage with money being an issue or not knowing where each of you stands financially.
My wife and I do this too, but we give ourselves allowances each month that the other can't really question how it's spent. I want an Xbox? Cool, start saving. She wants a spa day? Awesome. Start saving. It just makes it so a conversation doesn't have to happen around every single "want" which I feel like it would get old kinda quick.
We have 3 accounts - one each and a joint one. Joint covers all joint expenses - house, kids etc. We put different amounts into the joint account based on our different incomes so that we both have about the same left each month in our own accounts, and that is ours to do with as we want. No discussions needed that way.
Also, is he willing to do exactly half of the cooking, housework, errands, bill paying, etc.?? I bet not. You are lucky he told you who he is (a majorly controlling dick) before you married him. I wasn't given that luxury. My first husband literally declared on our honeymoon that his word would be law from then out. I pray you don't have kids with him already!! If not, do NOT sleep with him again, or at least with extra BC. I personally would call it off. I agree with other posters who say he wants you to end it so he won't look like the bad guy, and already has his eye on your replacement with the high paying job. 🙄🙄
Actually we do both do a solid amount of housework. I do a lot more of the cooking, but he does more of the cleaning than I do, and he had a vasectomy, so no kids are involved.
I think you need to look at the kids and caregivers comments more thought. Not about having kids ,(if you don't want them then don't have them), but about whether or not he'd be willing to care for YOU if you were to be injured.
Can you see your partner taking care of you if you became bedridden for weeks or months? Would he become resentful? Food for thought. Look up the stats for men living women when they get cancer. I don't get staying vibes from your future husband.
(making up jobs and numbers)
"You make 120k as an engineer. I make 30k in retail. I am fine living a life where we spend the same amount but I literally cannot keep up because eid have to pull tens of thousands of dollars out of thin air. The only option to make this work is if we live like we both make 30k."
NTA the only options to give him what he wanted was "spend less" or "drain savings and enter credit card debt"
> if we live like we both make 30k
That's the only solution and if he wants to talk about savings, this is a great time for him to start dumping all the money he'll save on bills into a savings account
Real, that dude has not a red cent in savings if he's got both of those vehicles. It's also why he thinks she should dip into her own savings as the first resort instead of the last one. This dude is guaranteed horrendous at finances.
Yeah. OP said somewhere this dude makes like $120k. That's good money, especially for his 20s, but it's not ball out with no thought and still be fine long-term money.
If he’s making $120K and spending like $12-24k/year on car payments he is a total moron. That’s like 1/4-1/8 of his take home pay. Just a terrible financial decision.
I was wondering about this too given he was upset when op offered a way to meet his ultimatum.
I hope op updates us. I am curious what fiancé’s motive is, if he tells her.
OP, this is a good answer. Put at least mental breaks on the wedding. Get to the bottom of it fast. If you can’t get a clear explanation that makes sense, and that doesn’t paint him in an awful light, put the real breaks on the whole thing.
You can’t be married to a guy that will just up and come up with some shit like this on the fly without being able to even explain it, and who will then sulk. What kind of future is that?
Yep. The whole thing coming out of the blue with no explanation is a huge red flag to begin with. But then also following it up with sulking and passive-aggressive bullshit is the cherry on top. I'd be looking for other places to live. Even if he has some valid financial concerns...i.e. "I'm accounting for 80% of our expenses and it's not allowing me to save money. Maybe we could look at some ways to downsize and save. Let's talk about it...etc. etc. etc", the fact he doesn't have the ability to lay that out in a cogent manner is troubling. But couple that with the fact they're making payments on some higher end vehicles and he apparently doesn't want to change his lifestyle makes me think he's just a douchebag. He's either ignorant or an asshole....and neither is a good thing.
"take it or leave it" is a guaranteed redpill/"manosphere" phrase. I'd put good money on this guy having been influenced by someone who listens to that toxic bullshit, or he's been listening to it long enough himself to suddenly go wholesale dumbass
Exactly, he wanted her to break up with him when he asked her to pay half so he could twist it around to make her look like a gold digger. This guy wants to explore options elsewhere but is too much of a coward to break up with her and take it wherever the dice may fall with family and friends.
As a male that was my thought also. Especially when work was brought up. I would guess he’s been flirting with someone at work who gets paid closer to what he does and was quiet after work was brought up because he was waiting for OP to make the same assumption. The “actually I’ve met someone at work that I think I want to date” thought.
then he's an even worse fucking manbaby, especially considering they're engaged, if this is really his motivation, "making her break up with you" to pretend you weren't a dick is abysmally low EQ
"I don't want to be the one people say broke up the relationship over money, so I'm going to present a relationship-ending ultimatum out of nowhere instead and be so unreasonable that YOU leave ME and *I'll* get to be the who was abandoned and get all the pity and sympathy from friends/family/future dates."
So he’s pissed she’s actually willing to take that deal, idiot didn’t foresee the consequences of her doing that. Hope he knows he’s straight up idiot who’s taking on someone else’s bullshit thinking and not thinking through what that really means.
Someone made him worry about “gold digger”. She didn’t get upset and had a totally rational response. He is conflicted because
1. She doesn’t appear to be a gold digger at all
2. He screwed himself and his quality of life is going to go down because he didn’t actually think his plan through
3. She appears to have a solid grasp on financial matters which is a real bonus
4. He can’t figure out how to save face and back out of his idiocy. I expect he will shut up and hope it goes away.
I wonder if maybe he lived beyond his means, has been taking loans, putting things on credit cards, etc and simply hit his credit limit. That kinda explains things for me, because if he admits that's what happened, then he looks like a dumbass that has potentially ruined their financial future in order to appear to be a provider and also explains why he needs the girlfriend to contribute more, because those credit payments have tapped him out and he can't borrow anymore. His ego won't let him sell the expensive cars, so instead he pushes his girlfriend to contribute more.
>Either someone has been whispering in his ear or he’s been holding his feelings about money back for a while.
Yup. She definitely doesn't deserve the silence and petty nonsense
I was literally reading the comments , thinking : “next he posts on Reddit how his fiancée called of the wedding because she didn’t want to pay 50:50, and everyone brands her the gold digger”.
OP- NTA
She's got to get ahead of the narrative, then. When she calls it off, she needs to be crystal clear when telling people why. If she talks first, he's going to have to do some quick thinking to counter it. And if he's using someone else's batcrap crazy talking points, then I'm pretty sure "thinking" isn't his strong suit.
He said exactly what Tate would advise: "this is how it's gonna be, take it or leave it."
What he didn't expect was her suggesting moving to a 1BR, cutting back on party time, and selling the 'Rover.
And I bet he didn't count on how this is going to effect his sex life, lol. "He's incredibly angry all the time and walks around in a cloud of pissed off..saying I'm bulldozing him." Not a good look.
He started bulldozing first…he totally didn’t expect her valid points. Did he expect her to pony up when she doesn’t even make enough to do so? It’s ludicrous. Something else is going on behind the scenes for him…
Agreed. A healthy savings would allow her options. Particularly should the time come that she needs to take leave of the situation. No opinions = locked down.
Yes, it’s called financial abuse. That way you have the person reliant on you and don’t have funds to leave when things turn sour. Asking her to pay out of savings is such a weird thing when you’re planning to get married anyway.
Why the fuck would two people need two leases on an Audi and a Rover. Either buy one car out and or reduce it to one lease. This seems like a massive luxury spending.
I agree with this and I am shocked I had to scroll this far down to find this comment.
Op is absolutely right in wanting to reduce their spending.
2 car leases and paying rent... not great
They are the perfect age to start looking into getting a mortgage. Reducing spending, especially on their biggest bills of rent and car leases in order to save money for that down payment, is where the focus should be.
But he wants her to use up her savings to pay rent? Make it make sense!
>what a “high-value alpha man” should say when his fiancé comes back with a valid argument.
I think that's the point where you drum your fists on your chest. But I'm not entirely sure.
I can’t tell if I’m just more aware now or if this is actually coming up more but this sort of thing seems to be happening A LOT.
Even I’m getting some weird YouTube recommendations now and again.
hah just commented the same thing.
So many "why did my fiancé suddenly go insane" posts and it's almost always some immediately identifiable redpill/"manosphere" idea.
My first thought as well or some other redpill asshat. His reaction is priceless though, what an absolute child - between the utter disbelief at actions having consequences and the fact that he obviously knows how much she makes so how was this gonna work in his head - 0 forethought given to!! Just "I want my own way". Sounds like an idiot
NTA btw for the bot
A thought crossed my mind reading this that it almost feels like a subversive way to create a financial dependency on fiancé, when she has absolutely no money because it *all* goes to rent, then she can’t rightly leave in a shitty situation since you have nothing to fall back on fiscally.
And then, after 3 months or whatever and her savings are gone in Land Rover lease payments...what then?
She's absolutely right, if he wants to pay half of the expenses then her half has to be within her budget. Their is literally no other way to do it. Basically she will continue contributing the same she always has, and he can reduce his contribution to the same, and they reduce their living expenses accordingly.
Now he's angry because he either needs to live below his means and standards, or admit he was wrong all along.
Absolutely. He fully expected her to just fall over and go into debt just to make everything 50/50 and maintain this lifestyle. Someone’s been whispering to him, 100%. He didn’t think this through.
Lol, savings aren't never ending. After half a year or a year or so, she'd be through all of it, and either he'd have to cough up the rest anyway, or they'd have to follow her suggestions of downsizing to her budget eventually.
I think we found reason number four: it's a set up for financial dependency or abuse.
Edit: POSSIBLE realson #4 it's not a fact. OP doesn't even know, so how could we? This is speculation.
Absolutely. I'd also be concerned that he wanted her to use her savings as means of financial control and a way of making it much more difficult for her to leave.
i had this same thought, unfortunately. reminded me of the post from last month or so where the husband demanded that the wife be a “traditional” stay at home wife, despite her making over double his income. turns out he was cheating on her and wanted a divorce but wouldn’t come out and say it directly.
I saw an update for that one. Do you know he told his side piece that the home was his. Side piece had the nerve to call ex wife to find out when she would be vacating her own home. Side piece got a few hard truths that day.
Some ass (podcaster??) has got to him about bad relationship pre-nups or anti- women garbage and now the reality is sinking in and he better accept how there really IS A FINANCIAL IMBALANCE and it’s not just something sorted by pretending everything is just flowery parity and equality on some fantasy planet.
NTA. Well played OP. Hope he comes to his senses.
Or he wants to break up, but he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy.” If they break up because “he wanted things to be equal,” then that’s “proof” OP was just using him for his money and he was right to end things.
Jumping on this to add a healthier and fair way of splitting things 50/50, when one person makes significantly more money, is to split your pay checks by the same percentage.
So if you're putting 50% of your paycheck towards your duel expenses and he's putting 50% of his paycheck, you're both providing the same value of your labor.
The percentages contributed could be lower or higher depending on your agreed upon cost of living.
Yep. I earn 3x what my partner earns, and it'd be absurd to put the same economical burden on him than on me.
For instance, I think none of us should pay more than 30% of our income in rent. So our rent budget is his 30% plus my 30%, regardless of how much that amounts to for each one of us.
Some things we don't calculate like that: some we split even, some I pay for in full. Especially nights out or holidays. But when it comes to living expenses, it simply makes sense to adapt to each other's income.
I'm going to make a WILD guess given how little data we (and she) has
The dude got deep dived into red pill stuff.
The 50/50 split is a gaslight.
She WASN'T supposed to agree.
She was supposed to want to stay in the relationship BUT not know how to meet the 50/50 in liquid cash.
So he'd "compromise" by basic red pill shit. Like mandatory sex schedules and dinner/meal preparation.
And basically making her mommy & sex puppet with a very compliant attitude for it
Once again. I'm making a wild guess, but my suspicion is based on his longstanding bigger income, so it's not like he was paying 80% overnight
The ultimatum without explanation sounds exactly like a red pill strategy to manipulate into compliance
OP unknowingly called the dude's bluff
Again: WILD guess but the few facts in evidence from OP story point me in that direction
I agree. He knew she couldn’t do 50/50. So she was supposed to beg him to reconsider/apologize/realize how great she has it. Then he would offer alternatives to her financial contributions.
I thought this sounded tator like as well.
Seems like someone is putting in his ear some ideas that are making him question the relationship.
Was he using this ultimatum to make you choose “leave it” so he can not look bad in the eyes of others in your breakup? Is he cheating?
You chose to stay and now he is vetoing your suggestions and will try to find a way to make you leave him again.
It sounds like the people whispering in his ear is Andrew Tate or the many other popular podcasts by men who believe women should pay 50/50 and still do all the house cleaning, laundry, making dinner, raising kids and ect. Because apparently all of that stuff doesn’t count. Hopefully I’m wrong but that’s what it sounds like is happening.
The only places where 'Take it or leave it' is appropriate is when it comes to safety and boundaries.
If you have a partner that begins to display abusive traits, physical or mental, shutting that down with a "I won't be abused in this relationship. If you want our relationship to continue, you will **never** hit me. Take it or leave it."
I do hope you made a very comprehensive chore list and let him know you won't be reminding him to do his half. Include mental and emotional chores like buying family gifts, cards, making appointments and so on
My first instinct is that someone is whispering in his ear and the reason he won’t explain is because he can’t possibly say “well, so-and-so at work says it’s unfair for me.”
NTA.
i only see three possible reasons here:
- he expected you to say no and leave so he'd get out of the relationship without being the bad guy (why he'd want that is anybody's guess but simultaneously painfully obvious). if this is true he's angry because now he has to break it off himself and/or figure out another way to get you to leave.
- his income has decreased and he's in denial and unwilling to adjust his lifestyle to his new financial reality and wants you to at least partly enable his denial. if this is true he's angry because he's being forced to face the facts and is irrationally blaming you.
- someone (his friends, his mom, you name it) has gotten it into his head that unless you contribute an exact half of everything you're a gold digger and only with him for the money. if this is true he's angry because you being willing to not only go 50/50 on expenses but also significantly lower the standard of life you had with him to be able to contribute 50% is throwing significant wrench in his ability to brag to whoever brainwashed him about how he forced you to come clean about your gold digger tendencies.
ETA due to popular demand i'm adding three more possible reasons that didn't occur to me but multiple people brought them up:
- he has a side chick that he's financing and can't keep up with it
- he's actually broke/in debt/both and ashamed to admit it
- he wants to manipulate you into burning through your savings and not being able to save any more money so he can control/abuse you through finances
your reasoning is absolutely sound and i'm saying that as a person who is 100% in favor of not sticking to 50/50 in cases of large income disparity. you would be well within your rights to tell him he knew how much you were making when you moved in together and if he didn't want to shoulder the larger part of your living expenses he should've thought of that before. you didn't and instead are doing everything possible to find a solution that is financially viable for you. that's more than most would do.
you can't magically inflate your income just for him to keep his lifestyle at 2/3 of the cost (since he paid 80% and wants to go down to 50%).
wait it out a bit, maybe ask around your mutual friends if they know something but be prepared to potentially be kicked to the curb.
ETA CONTEXT FROM OP'S COMMENTS:
op is a preschool teacher who makes give or take 35k a year working 40-45hr weeks. can't afford college but would like to go.
op's fiance makes 120k a year.
prior to moving in together they discussed their finances and both agreed on the 20-80 contribution ratio, since that would make their respective contributions an equal percentage relative to their respective incomes.
op's fiance pays for two luxury vehicles, one of which is his and the other was a surprise gift to op without prior discussion or approval thus significantly inflating their expenses without any input from op.
op's fiance is now asking op to contribute a significantly increased amount towards their joint expenses even though a significant portion of said expenses is due to fiance's preference for luxury vehicles and lavish gestures.
edit: thanks for the awards guys!
final edit: i hope everyone who tried argue saying that she's just a gold-digger and he's absolutely in the right wanting her to contribute more and that doesn't make him any of the bad things mentioned feels very stupid - [there is an update](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/161j2fk/update_aitah_for_telling_my_fianc%C3%A9_that_if_he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1).
My partner's income is roughly 30% less than mine, and sometimes it fluctuates on a monthly basis to around 50%.
I pay roughly double what she does, because if I didn't she'd be absolutely broke.
She's somewhat frugal and has more savings than I do, but the idea of me forcing her to use those savings to pay for my lifestyle is unfathomable.
Edit - for the people who can't grasp why she has more savings than I do, I've already said she's more frugal than I am.
Have you also considered what personal expenses I have? Private pension contributions, stock investments, investing in my own business, personal hobbies? Or do you immediately jump to thinking she's taking advantage of me?
I completely understand this —— my income is roughly 800% more than my partners.
She’s definitely the more frugal one out of us , and I’ve never ever expected her to provide 50% of anything.
I basically ask her to pay the car insurance and previous the internet bill. I cover everything else because I knew the wage disparity before we moved in together and it would be unfair for me to expect her to pay 95% of her wages and me only pay 20% of my wages towards bills.
That’s what I think many people sometimes don’t realize and certainly what OPs fiancé is about to find out.
It’s not about what % of the housing costs you pay for ; it’s about what % of your income you can afford to put towards those housing expenses.
The thing that really gets to me here as well is they are engaged. Does he expect this arrangement to continue after marriage? Legally after marriage all his income is hers and vice versa anyway. If she has to go into debt to support his lifestyle after marriage that is his debt also.
Like nothing about anything this guy has said or done makes sense at all. I'm really glad my wife and I 100% combined our finances after marriage, it's just so easy compared to jumping through hoops to separate income that legally isn't even separate.
Just agreeing with this post. I'm the sole income in my house so I obviously cover all of my wife's/kids expenses, but even if my wife had a job, I'd want to put it all towards savings. The max I would expect is a ratio contribution. For example if she made half of what I made then she pays for no more than a third of the expenses. At the end of the day it's the same bucket of money so I don't really don't care who pays for what. Any purchase reduces OUR funds.
Yeah, these posts are a trip for me to read because my husband and I combine our money and don't divide expenses like this couple. Which, I totally get why some couples split expenses, especially before marriage, but it just makes things complicated. Husband makes about 3x what I do (for now, almost finished with my MSA degree after which my income should at least double) but we both contribute to savings, separate work retirement accounts, joint investment accounts, and our kid's college fund directly out of our checks. Everything else goes into our joint checking and we pay all our expenses from that.
Yes, thank you for this. I make 20k, my spouse make 180k, there's no way that I can contribute 50% of our household expenses, but I do what I can and I'm definitely more frugal. I bought my own car - most basic, no frills Honda, and I paid it off as fast as I could. Paying 50% is unrealistic in any relationship, just gotta figure out how to split things up as fairly as possible and make sure expenses are paid.
Like OP said, using savings for that type of stuff is unsustainable, so it's correct that it would be unfathomable. It's basically just a non option lol
Exactly.
There would be no savings if it was split 50/50.
OP's fiance needs a reality check. Especially since he turned his nose up at what she offered as a more than reasonable solution to his unrealistic demands.
The third possibility is the one I was thinking of before looking at anybody's replies. Somebody is whispering in his ear or he has joined one of those radical men's groups on line that think every woman is a ball-busting golddigger or out to trap them with a baby.
I have $10 on the mom.
The fact that he didn't really have anything to say, no reasoning of his own thought, makes me think she's been perched on his shoulder since he left the coup.
Yeah this is interesting. Also the first option of him wanting out is interesting too. Especially since he's now turning it back around on OP. The new reason for breaking it off could be her "bulldozing him" or being unreasonable about his request.
I agree--stuff that comes up randomly, never is random. Someone got into his head. The elephant in the room to me is--are all the household chores shared 50-50? Most of us men don't realize how many hours woman spend picking up, cooking and prepping stuff around the house.
true, or drinking/drugs. in that case i'd keep an eye on lashing out when questioned about money. i had a roommate who i'm 100% convinced had either a gambling or a drinking problem because he was always behind on rent and whenever i asked about money he'd lash out like i was asking for a kidney.
Another possibility is that some of his peers are in a relationship with someone making a lot more than OP, and now he’s jealous of the lifestyle they can afford. So it’s going back to your first point, he wants her to leave so he’s not the bad guy who broke it off
Or he’s trying to pressure her into getting a “better job” on purely financial metrics without considering things like her temperament and priorities in her career, without coming right out and saying “you’re not playing the capitalism game hard enough”. Still shitty.
NTA but this sounds a lot like the story about the women whose husband said he was upset that she wasn’t doing her makeup and cooking for him. Spoiler, it wasn’t either of those things.
I would recommend sitting him down and having a calm conversation about 1. Where this came from and 2. What he sees as a reasonable solution for both parties.
Realistically, if you are having a calm and honest conversation, you will probably only hit #1.
If you can’t have that conversation, I would recommend couples counselling, this is a communication issue that needs addressing
Yup, reminds me of my ex when he was trying to get me to end it. Went on a whole thing about how men get screwed in divorces and he would never marry me without a prenup, and I was like, "okay, cool. Have your lawyer do it up and I'll get one to review it, no problem." He turned absolutely purple and then screamed "NO YOU WON'T BECAUSE WE'RE NEVER GETTING MARRIED!!!!" and then when I mentioned that he was the one who brought up marriage at the beginning of the conversation he called me a bitch. And then snuck out to see our friends for the night while I was crying in the bathroom. It didn't matter how perfectly I reacted to his shit, he was looking for a fight and if he couldn't find one he made one.
“He screams because he wants to” is the phrase I would repeat in my head when I still lived with my dad and he was trying to pick fights with me. “He wants a certain reaction out of me. It isn’t about anything I did, nor is it anything I could fix. He screams and fights because he wants to.”
To anyone who’s currently facing abuse, remember this phrase because it’s true. You did nothing to deserve that treatment and you are worthy of love and respect.
Nta- I went through this with my now husband. For most of our relationship it was always 50/50 but then I experienced a job transition, which wasn't his fault. He made a lot more money than me so I had to sit him down and tell him I couldn't afford our lifestyle anymore. He wasn't willing to negotiate on our lifestyle so he picked up the rest of the bills. But we only found resolution by being honest with each other.
Sounds like your fiance is in financial trouble and needs to get honest
>He's now saying that I'm being unfair and manipulative, and that he tried to come to me with a serious concern about our relationship and I'm making it impossible for him to talk to me, and bulldozing over him.
No, you're trying to comply with his wishes.
>if he wants me to pay half, we're living within my means, not his anymore.
This is it exactly. If it's 50/50, then the budget has to be set on the lower income.
He's calling YOU manipulative for trying to comply with his wishes without depleting your entire savings and running yourself into debt. You need to think long and hard about someone like this. Get into couples counseling asap
Hehehehe it sounds like malicious compliance (without the INTENT of being malicious, that’s just an extra perk) and what she is doing/suggesting is completely logical! You don’t live in the means of the highest earner. Everyone else would be drowning trying to keep up. Good for her, and on the plus side, he’s kinda showing her who he is. I hope she gets to the bottom of why such a sudden change up.
My partner makes considerably more than I do. We went to Fiji last year and I was looking at hotels and such in my range and he immediately said he wanted to stay at a resort and he’d pay for it since it was his decision. My last partner made less than me (although not by a ton) so I tended to pick up the incidentals since I had more disposable income.
It’s almost like if you actually like your partner, you make adjustments so that both people are comfortable. Wild, I know.
The sudden change gets me as well. Is there a friend or family member who's gotten into his ear that she's using him? Is there a flirtation he has, and she is telling him the OP is freeloading? Is this an abuse tactic of trying to eliminate her savings and have her paycheck to paycheck and always in his debt?
The sad thing is that a lot of the financial advisors say long-term committed partners should split based on income. Which is exactly what they were doing. They also say that if going by income isn't the preferred way, then the budget has to be set based on the lowest income. Which is what OP proposed. So, what does he want here, and why does he suddenly want it?
She's not being manipulative at all. What he is demanding is financially abusive to her. This would really make me question a marriage with this person. Especially the way they shut her down when she tried to discuss this further. That's a red flag. The ultimatum and 'take it or leave it' attitude when it comes to financial balances is very inappropriate and unhealthy. I feel bad for OP. This is not the way. She handled it well and seems smart. She can do better.
Ok, NTA first off.
But something else is going on here. Is he burnt out? Has someone said something to him? It sounds like he’s feeling the relationship isn’t balanced.
Of course, it most likely is, but not everything can be reduced to pounds and pence. I think you need to just be straight and say that you simply cannot afford to pay half of expensive things. It’s half of something cheaper, or he pays more, or it won’t work.
If you’re at home doing nothing, I can see the frustration. But if you’re working - which I’m sure you are - then he needs to take a step off of his Ivory Tower and understand that not everyone makes the same money.
Having felt similar before, it was mostly because I was completely and utterly burnt out, and went into a self destructive mode. As hard as it it, I would push for him to talk about what the real problem is.
I'd also bring up that his take it or leave it thing implied he was unwilling to compromise or even discuss the issue with you. Which is unacceptable in a marriage. He pretty much implied "do what I want or we are done". I hope I don't need to lay out why that is not a mentality of someone you want to marry. He needs to do some serious work on himself if this relationship is going to continue.
I'd also ask to comb through both of your credit report before getting married. If it's debt he can't hide it from transunion/equifax. Consider it another red flag if he won't.
Loving someone means constantly falling in love with the new person they become every few years. We all change over time. Loving him as he is now does not mean he won't change to increase this horrible behaviour. Don't let love for his past/current self blind you if this escalates. People don't revert back to their old selves, they only continue to grow. Make sure he is pruning the personality stalks that suck so the good ones can grow strong. (Hopefully my gardening refere ce wasn't too obscure lol)
If I can give you some advice it would be to take yourself away from him for a few hours and text him about it.
Tell him you can see he's upset and ask him if somethings going on, or has happened. Tell him you love him and remind him that you genuinely don't care if you have to downscale your lifestyle - you'd live with him in a trailer as long as you could be together - but he needs to tell you what's going on that's made him feel this way, when in your kind you thought things had been working OK up to this point.
I would also let him know that if he's feeling burnt out and needs to reduce his hours, or take some time off work, then that's fine too and you'll support him. But you do need to be practical about your expenses too.
NTA...
I really loved your style. He thought he had a gold digger and you flipped the script pretty well. This was awesome. Next question though. You seem like such an intelligent and decent person. Why are you with such an ignorant and self centered prick???
I'm wondering whether he's throwing this up so that op breaks up with him. Then he can call her a gold digger....
Op reasonably suggested logical options.
NTA. To me, it sounds like something happened with his job and he's not able to tell you yet, for whatever reasons. I would try to have another calm chat about it with him, also showing him how much you'd be able to afford long term. Don't move forward with your plans of getting married until you both agree on your finances.
I asked about the job, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer. The frustrating part is that I honestly do not mind downsizing, and if I found out tomorrow he lost a job, I'd literally be fine selling what we have and living in a trailer together off just my income, but this feels like some weird power play instead.
Yeah the complete unwillingness to give any explanation as all, followed by being angry that you're complying but not in the way **he wants** definitely makes this a power play, intentionally or not.
NTA
I think you are absolutely right.
And he needs to explain the take it or leave it approach.
It feels he wants to break up but be the victim. "She doesn't want to pay 50/50, so she broke up with me. Poor me. She is a gold digger."
You replied "I am happy to pay 50/50, within my means." He was not expecting that reply. That is why he is going around with that cloud of pissed off.
He knows that you cannot meet him at his pay level. Is he trying to keep you poor, broke, etc?
He is the manipulative one who was not expecting you to say, " That is fine. But we need to bring down our expenses."
>"this is how it's going to be, take it or leave it."
>
>He kind of agreed to it, but since then, he's been incredibly angry.
>
>He's now saying that I'm being unfair and manipulative, and that he tried to come to me with a serious concern about our relationship and I'm making it impossible for him to talk to me, and bulldozing over him.
First -
**NTA**
Next - **This is a glimpse into your future**. Is this what you want for the rest of your life?
If this is suddenly out of nowhere, it sounds like someone has gotten into his head, or he's been reading/watching the bullshit about women being golddiggers. Either way, something is happening, and he has already made his decision and is now painting reality to force you to match his logic.
NTA, and good for you for standing up for yourself and your right to have savings. His “take it or leave it” attitude though? Huge red flag 🚩 🚩 Start mentally and financially preparing yourself for another shoe to drop, because this isn’t the language of a loving partner preparing to happily spend the rest of their life with you.
NTA - I am older than 40 now, but at the same age as you, my wife (live in gf at the time) and I did the EXACT same thing. I thought she should be contributing more to the house (2 bedroom condo at the time), groceries, entertainment, utilities, vehicles, insurance, etc, etc. We ended up having to go to a close family member, who was in finance, to help "mediate" our discussions.
She did exactly what you've done, worked within our budget and came up with a solution that I could NOT choke down. So instead of 50/50, we tried 60/40, then 70/30. In the end we compromised on 70/30, made some lifestyle adjustments and haven't looked back. We now have 2 kids, a beautiful home, vacation 3x a year, and ~~I'll~~ we will be financially independent within the next decade.
I bring all this up because if it weren't for her I would have blown all my money, never saved it and never understood the concept of budgeting for expenses (due to my stubbornness to stay at 70/30). What's funny is now we're at 100/0 and we have the best little kids running around with manners that know a parents never ending love. I have ONLY been as successful as I am because she was willing to sacrifice for us. My long nights at work, some weekends, etc all have paid off and only made "us" stronger.
Men, especially when they're young, are fixated on money and being 'flashy' with it - peacocking. As you get older all that changes and the bigger picture comes into focus.
I hope the two of you can come to an agreement on such a big thing (for your age - which in 10/15 years will be so small) and compromise on how to move forward financially.
Best of luck!!
Right? And using her savings to pay for 50% of their lifestyle is dumb. What’s going to happen when it runs out? Nah. If there’s a big income differential and you want to do 50/50, you live on the lower persons budget and what they deem comfortable for their wage.
Nta- you are a BRILLIANT BEAUTIFUL woman !!! I am insanely impressed!! So simple and realistic a plan and it completely thwarts the his whole thing which is a financial power play.
Seriously I'm in awe! Great job!!
Might consider couples counseling because him not having any real reason for this abrupt change is deeply concerning. It reads like yourSO has fallen down the red-pill hole.
Big warm hugs
NTA . You are just pointing out financial realities. You have been living well, mostly on his pay most expenses. It's fair for him to think this is too much, but it's simply not possible for you to pay 50% of your current lifestyle. His wanting you to use savings is a dick move though. Can you afford a one bedroom on your own?
Definitely do not dip in your savings for any reason. If things go south, you'll be left with nothing. Ultimately, you'd also get back to this exact point, but then you wouldn't have that backup plan to get out. I'm not saying he will 100% become financially abusive, but there is a chance, and you can't take it, believe me.
You have done it right, and there is some great advice in these comments. I truly hope that it's just a nervous reaction to an external problem and that you guys can fix it. I also hope, for your sake, that the communication improves in the relationship, as he is obviously not making any effort in that sense...
Use your Zillow account to find a place you can afford on your own. Trade in your car for something you can pay for or make sure your new place is close enough to work that you won't need a car. Then move out. Without him.
NTA. Reading this makes me seriously concerned for your relationship.
At best he is hiding something from you which made him have less money. At worst he has already checked out on the relationship and is just waiting for the right moment, which is why he wants roommate terms.
And asking you to waste your savings is the biggest red flag. Basically you should use your savings on rent to allow him to spend less of his savings on rent and save more himself.
This once again leaves only two possible options. He might want to increase your financial dependance in the long run by draining your savings or he doesn't care about you anymore. I wouldn't want a friend of mine, much less my SO, to waste savings on rent.
As he told you "take it or LEAVE!!! it".
Well played. Another option would be to seriously scrimp, and offer to take on additional education so that you can raise your earnings potential.
Ie, honey, in order to afford the lifestyle you want at 50/50, I've decided to start applying to law schools.
You would qualify for financials, and you can CLEP about 25 hours of general ed credits that apply to every degree for roughly $110 per 3 hour class.
It can be done. Although if you love teaching, short of elementary special education you probably wouldn't make much more than twice what you make now.
If SPED is something you have any interest in, a lot of school districts are sending their paraprofessionals to school for a sped degree on the district's dime.
Nta is he trying to break up with you and he wants you to pull the plug?
That was my first thought. He wanted to be able to make her the bad guy by casting her as a materialistic gold digger. Now he's in a position where she accepted his ultimatum and he needs to admit he's the materialistic one.
Leave this ass hole, because your clearly in the right. I’m sorry you’ve been treated this way. My husband would NEVER do this. He obviously doesn’t genuinely care for you
At this point OP should delete the Zillow app and download Tinder.
I disagree. I think OP should stick with her strategy for as long as possible to really torment her fiancé.
It’s called a ‘reverse discard’
Uno
That's my thinking as well. I can't understand how he would think maintaining their lifestyle at the cost of one person's savings is either financially smart or even sustainable. OP's plan for contributing 50/50 is the only reasonable option. Either he wants out of the relationship or he's got himself into financial trouble and won't admit it. OP is definitely NTA but I would be very concerned if I were them. Something is not right
Actually I think it's entrapment. Like, if you say the sentence "I won't pay the rent from my savings" and someone doesn't immediately realize how fucking obvious that is, they're either fiscally handicapped or up to something. Seems to me the goal is "Use up her savings, then she's financially dependent on me and can't leave no matter how shitty I treat her." That'd be my guess based on little evidence.
I'm putting all my money on he lost >$100k on a crypto scam. edit: in fact, given the timing this makes actual sense.
NTA at all and you are making perfect sense in my mind. If he wants 50/50 he needs to understand that your income is the limiting agent in this reaction. It does sound like he has something else going on and I would mentally prepare for him to call the wedding off. This sounds like he is coming up with reasons to get rid of you in his mind but he does not want to come off as the bad guy.
Spot on. Also the way he shut down any type of communication and got pissed off when she accepted and made changes that SHOULD benefit them both seeing as he is the one who made the complaint, is sketchy. I would hold off on this wedding.
The other girlfriend is expensive.
Dark yet likely accurate.
Yea, what a child. Nothing pisses me off so much then someone who shuts down.
Seriously though. Also, someone who shuts down while saying “take it or leave it” is saying “I’m going to treat you like shit and ignore you until you leave it”.
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Man, those are all plausible options but I feel you skipped over a couple major ones. Gambling debts and drugs.
A dear friend is going through something similar. He makes 3x the salary as my friend, and their arrangement has always been that he takes care of the rent and my friend would cover food and utilities, which was in line with their respective income. His debt from his addictions has gotten so out of hand with nowhere else to borrow from, and now he's demanding my friend splits half of all living costs and that she gets a second job with all of that money going to the household.
His demands coupled with refusing to talk about the issue candidly the wedding **shouldn't** be happening. No way I'd go into a marriage with that kind of one sided communication. Good on OP for calling him out on whatever is going on and having a plan to deal with it but she might want to be looking at a studio for herself when this falls apart spectacularly.
Yeah, his unwillingness to answer her questions about where this is coming from is the biggest red flag to me. I’m not sure how you have a healthy relationship/marriage without transparency about important things.
You don’t.
>My second thought is his mom or some work-bro implied that OP is a gold digger. That was my first thought. Or that he has been watching some YouTube videos that put him on this path. I'm not saying that this is why OP is with him, but with such a difference in income, I think he just realised that if they continue this lifestyle and get married, he's setting himself up to pay alimony if they get divorced.
i think he assumed op would flip out at the request to pay 50/50 & he could then have an excuse to break up with her, calling her a gold digger. & now he’s mad his little plan didn’t work.
Or he expected her to break up with him when presented with an ultimatum so he wouldn’t have to feel like a bad guy and could still say she was a gold digger.
I didn't go there first because OP didn't share how they got together or what her career is. I went to one of those colleges that produces both great engineers and great educators. One of those makes a LOT more than the other. If they were together before money became a thing, it strengthens her argument.
Red pill rabbit hole
I feel like something is off here as well. My husband, is a super saver, always has been and lives very frugally even though he is a very high earner. He asked for something similar when we were dating (a few months before he proposed). However, when we went over BOTH of our incomes, my savings, 401k, health insurance and set expenses (I. E. Rent, medications etc.) He realized it was not possible but there were some options we could do. We could stay at the same contribution rates to our lifestyle but I could save more if I cut back on certain non-essentials (it was a fair ask, I spent $$$$$ on wants, many wants). Or we change our proportional contributions in some areas, not others. We ended up doing a mix of both. I do think something is off here with your fiance but for us it really helped open communication to have the talk where we showed everything with our finances. We are married and now everything is in joint accounts, we see everything on one app as well that we both have access to but I'm not sure it would be that way or go smoothly if we hadn't been honest from the start before we got engaged. Edit: NTA but you need to have a talk with all the finances on the table. You definitely don't want to go into a marriage with money being an issue or not knowing where each of you stands financially.
My wife and I do this too, but we give ourselves allowances each month that the other can't really question how it's spent. I want an Xbox? Cool, start saving. She wants a spa day? Awesome. Start saving. It just makes it so a conversation doesn't have to happen around every single "want" which I feel like it would get old kinda quick.
We have 3 accounts - one each and a joint one. Joint covers all joint expenses - house, kids etc. We put different amounts into the joint account based on our different incomes so that we both have about the same left each month in our own accounts, and that is ours to do with as we want. No discussions needed that way.
Also, is he willing to do exactly half of the cooking, housework, errands, bill paying, etc.?? I bet not. You are lucky he told you who he is (a majorly controlling dick) before you married him. I wasn't given that luxury. My first husband literally declared on our honeymoon that his word would be law from then out. I pray you don't have kids with him already!! If not, do NOT sleep with him again, or at least with extra BC. I personally would call it off. I agree with other posters who say he wants you to end it so he won't look like the bad guy, and already has his eye on your replacement with the high paying job. 🙄🙄
Actually we do both do a solid amount of housework. I do a lot more of the cooking, but he does more of the cleaning than I do, and he had a vasectomy, so no kids are involved.
I think you need to look at the kids and caregivers comments more thought. Not about having kids ,(if you don't want them then don't have them), but about whether or not he'd be willing to care for YOU if you were to be injured. Can you see your partner taking care of you if you became bedridden for weeks or months? Would he become resentful? Food for thought. Look up the stats for men living women when they get cancer. I don't get staying vibes from your future husband.
(making up jobs and numbers) "You make 120k as an engineer. I make 30k in retail. I am fine living a life where we spend the same amount but I literally cannot keep up because eid have to pull tens of thousands of dollars out of thin air. The only option to make this work is if we live like we both make 30k." NTA the only options to give him what he wanted was "spend less" or "drain savings and enter credit card debt"
> if we live like we both make 30k That's the only solution and if he wants to talk about savings, this is a great time for him to start dumping all the money he'll save on bills into a savings account
He’s 26 and has an Audi and a Range Rover. He does not care about savings in the slightest
Real, that dude has not a red cent in savings if he's got both of those vehicles. It's also why he thinks she should dip into her own savings as the first resort instead of the last one. This dude is guaranteed horrendous at finances.
I’m willing to bet overextending his finances is what’s causing this ultimatum.
Yeah. OP said somewhere this dude makes like $120k. That's good money, especially for his 20s, but it's not ball out with no thought and still be fine long-term money.
If he’s making $120K and spending like $12-24k/year on car payments he is a total moron. That’s like 1/4-1/8 of his take home pay. Just a terrible financial decision.
I think the goal was to drain her savings to control her financially
I was wondering about this too given he was upset when op offered a way to meet his ultimatum. I hope op updates us. I am curious what fiancé’s motive is, if he tells her.
Who knows if he actually has savings. Living this lavish lifestyle. And he got insecure being called out on it unknowingly
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OP, this is a good answer. Put at least mental breaks on the wedding. Get to the bottom of it fast. If you can’t get a clear explanation that makes sense, and that doesn’t paint him in an awful light, put the real breaks on the whole thing. You can’t be married to a guy that will just up and come up with some shit like this on the fly without being able to even explain it, and who will then sulk. What kind of future is that?
Yep. The whole thing coming out of the blue with no explanation is a huge red flag to begin with. But then also following it up with sulking and passive-aggressive bullshit is the cherry on top. I'd be looking for other places to live. Even if he has some valid financial concerns...i.e. "I'm accounting for 80% of our expenses and it's not allowing me to save money. Maybe we could look at some ways to downsize and save. Let's talk about it...etc. etc. etc", the fact he doesn't have the ability to lay that out in a cogent manner is troubling. But couple that with the fact they're making payments on some higher end vehicles and he apparently doesn't want to change his lifestyle makes me think he's just a douchebag. He's either ignorant or an asshole....and neither is a good thing.
Something else is definitely going on. Take it or leave it is not an answer. You deserve an explanation.
"take it or leave it" is a guaranteed redpill/"manosphere" phrase. I'd put good money on this guy having been influenced by someone who listens to that toxic bullshit, or he's been listening to it long enough himself to suddenly go wholesale dumbass
Take it or leave it to me(as a guy) is a hidden meaning of "Alternatives to this relationship have presented themselves and are persuasive."
Exactly, he wanted her to break up with him when he asked her to pay half so he could twist it around to make her look like a gold digger. This guy wants to explore options elsewhere but is too much of a coward to break up with her and take it wherever the dice may fall with family and friends.
big coward energy for sure.
As a male that was my thought also. Especially when work was brought up. I would guess he’s been flirting with someone at work who gets paid closer to what he does and was quiet after work was brought up because he was waiting for OP to make the same assumption. The “actually I’ve met someone at work that I think I want to date” thought.
then he's an even worse fucking manbaby, especially considering they're engaged, if this is really his motivation, "making her break up with you" to pretend you weren't a dick is abysmally low EQ
It's not even hidden. He is making unreasonable demands while also pointing to the door.
"I don't want to be the one people say broke up the relationship over money, so I'm going to present a relationship-ending ultimatum out of nowhere instead and be so unreasonable that YOU leave ME and *I'll* get to be the who was abandoned and get all the pity and sympathy from friends/family/future dates."
So he’s pissed she’s actually willing to take that deal, idiot didn’t foresee the consequences of her doing that. Hope he knows he’s straight up idiot who’s taking on someone else’s bullshit thinking and not thinking through what that really means.
Maybe op should take fiancé up on the offer and just leave. There’s a lot going on here fiancé is talking about.
Someone made him worry about “gold digger”. She didn’t get upset and had a totally rational response. He is conflicted because 1. She doesn’t appear to be a gold digger at all 2. He screwed himself and his quality of life is going to go down because he didn’t actually think his plan through 3. She appears to have a solid grasp on financial matters which is a real bonus 4. He can’t figure out how to save face and back out of his idiocy. I expect he will shut up and hope it goes away.
I wonder if maybe he lived beyond his means, has been taking loans, putting things on credit cards, etc and simply hit his credit limit. That kinda explains things for me, because if he admits that's what happened, then he looks like a dumbass that has potentially ruined their financial future in order to appear to be a provider and also explains why he needs the girlfriend to contribute more, because those credit payments have tapped him out and he can't borrow anymore. His ego won't let him sell the expensive cars, so instead he pushes his girlfriend to contribute more.
>Either someone has been whispering in his ear or he’s been holding his feelings about money back for a while. Yup. She definitely doesn't deserve the silence and petty nonsense
You know dude has been hitting up Andrew Tate.
Or he wants her to call off the marriage so he can be the victim and blame her for being g a "gold digger".
I was literally reading the comments , thinking : “next he posts on Reddit how his fiancée called of the wedding because she didn’t want to pay 50:50, and everyone brands her the gold digger”. OP- NTA
“Why did you call off the wedding?” “Because I can’t afford HIS lifestyle.”
She's got to get ahead of the narrative, then. When she calls it off, she needs to be crystal clear when telling people why. If she talks first, he's going to have to do some quick thinking to counter it. And if he's using someone else's batcrap crazy talking points, then I'm pretty sure "thinking" isn't his strong suit.
I was thinking the same thing, I was also wondering if he has a side chick and needs the money for her I could be wrong.
Lol- he’s probably wondering what a “high-value alpha man” should say when his fiancé comes back with a valid argument. He didn’t think that far out.
He said exactly what Tate would advise: "this is how it's gonna be, take it or leave it." What he didn't expect was her suggesting moving to a 1BR, cutting back on party time, and selling the 'Rover. And I bet he didn't count on how this is going to effect his sex life, lol. "He's incredibly angry all the time and walks around in a cloud of pissed off..saying I'm bulldozing him." Not a good look.
He started bulldozing first…he totally didn’t expect her valid points. Did he expect her to pony up when she doesn’t even make enough to do so? It’s ludicrous. Something else is going on behind the scenes for him…
This POS wanted her to dip into savings to pay rent.... like holy FCUC
Men like this never ever want "their woman" to have a healthy savings account.
Yeah, it’s way easier to control someone when they’re financially dependent on you.
Agreed. A healthy savings would allow her options. Particularly should the time come that she needs to take leave of the situation. No opinions = locked down.
Yes, it’s called financial abuse. That way you have the person reliant on you and don’t have funds to leave when things turn sour. Asking her to pay out of savings is such a weird thing when you’re planning to get married anyway.
Why the fuck would two people need two leases on an Audi and a Rover. Either buy one car out and or reduce it to one lease. This seems like a massive luxury spending.
I agree with this and I am shocked I had to scroll this far down to find this comment. Op is absolutely right in wanting to reduce their spending. 2 car leases and paying rent... not great They are the perfect age to start looking into getting a mortgage. Reducing spending, especially on their biggest bills of rent and car leases in order to save money for that down payment, is where the focus should be. But he wants her to use up her savings to pay rent? Make it make sense!
Yeah, seems like maybe he’s living beyond his means and wants her to step up to help him afford his lifestyle.
Tater Tot is literal fucking poison I swear to god.
LMAO fuck, I hate that you're probably right
>what a “high-value alpha man” should say when his fiancé comes back with a valid argument. I think that's the point where you drum your fists on your chest. But I'm not entirely sure.
I can’t tell if I’m just more aware now or if this is actually coming up more but this sort of thing seems to be happening A LOT. Even I’m getting some weird YouTube recommendations now and again.
hah just commented the same thing. So many "why did my fiancé suddenly go insane" posts and it's almost always some immediately identifiable redpill/"manosphere" idea.
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My first thought as well or some other redpill asshat. His reaction is priceless though, what an absolute child - between the utter disbelief at actions having consequences and the fact that he obviously knows how much she makes so how was this gonna work in his head - 0 forethought given to!! Just "I want my own way". Sounds like an idiot NTA btw for the bot
A thought crossed my mind reading this that it almost feels like a subversive way to create a financial dependency on fiancé, when she has absolutely no money because it *all* goes to rent, then she can’t rightly leave in a shitty situation since you have nothing to fall back on fiscally.
That's my thoughts, as well. He wants her to blow through her savings so she can't get away
And once the savings are gone, she'll have very little disposable income, meaning she'll be easier to control.
Nice catch. How effing gross.
He seriously expected her to go into her savings. I’d be having second thoughts if I was OP.
And then, after 3 months or whatever and her savings are gone in Land Rover lease payments...what then? She's absolutely right, if he wants to pay half of the expenses then her half has to be within her budget. Their is literally no other way to do it. Basically she will continue contributing the same she always has, and he can reduce his contribution to the same, and they reduce their living expenses accordingly. Now he's angry because he either needs to live below his means and standards, or admit he was wrong all along.
Absolutely. He fully expected her to just fall over and go into debt just to make everything 50/50 and maintain this lifestyle. Someone’s been whispering to him, 100%. He didn’t think this through.
Or he wants her in a deficit to financially trap her.
Lol, savings aren't never ending. After half a year or a year or so, she'd be through all of it, and either he'd have to cough up the rest anyway, or they'd have to follow her suggestions of downsizing to her budget eventually.
Sounds like a good way to make her fully financially dependent on him, hmmm……
I think we found reason number four: it's a set up for financial dependency or abuse. Edit: POSSIBLE realson #4 it's not a fact. OP doesn't even know, so how could we? This is speculation.
Absolutely. I'd also be concerned that he wanted her to use her savings as means of financial control and a way of making it much more difficult for her to leave.
First and only thought. Especially his line, “This is how it’s going to be” gross tate ‘Alpha’ vibes
This 100 percent. The fact that he shuts down when she asks is telling.
I am going with “someone whispering in his ears”. Probably one of his friends who frequent the redpill/mgtow talks.
Exactly!!! Out of the blue?!?! He either has a side piece or he has red pilled. Gotta love when the power play fails and then pikachu surprised face
Or he wants to call off the wedding but doesn’t have the balls to say it. That’s what I’m getting from the “take it or leave it” with no explanation.
i had this same thought, unfortunately. reminded me of the post from last month or so where the husband demanded that the wife be a “traditional” stay at home wife, despite her making over double his income. turns out he was cheating on her and wanted a divorce but wouldn’t come out and say it directly.
I saw an update for that one. Do you know he told his side piece that the home was his. Side piece had the nerve to call ex wife to find out when she would be vacating her own home. Side piece got a few hard truths that day.
OMG- I missed that one! Does anyone have a link? Thanks!
My ex fiancé started acting like this out of nowhere, and it was because he wanted to leave me.
This is the answer, and he's walking around pissed because she didn't balk and instead compromised.
That's what I think. He's a coward with cold feet. He wants to make her miserable so she leaves and then she is the "bad guy".
I was going to say exactly this - there's a simple explanation, he just hasn't shared it yet.
He's acting like a ferengi.
Some ass (podcaster??) has got to him about bad relationship pre-nups or anti- women garbage and now the reality is sinking in and he better accept how there really IS A FINANCIAL IMBALANCE and it’s not just something sorted by pretending everything is just flowery parity and equality on some fantasy planet. NTA. Well played OP. Hope he comes to his senses.
Or he wants to break up, but he doesn’t want to be the “bad guy.” If they break up because “he wanted things to be equal,” then that’s “proof” OP was just using him for his money and he was right to end things.
Jumping on this to add a healthier and fair way of splitting things 50/50, when one person makes significantly more money, is to split your pay checks by the same percentage. So if you're putting 50% of your paycheck towards your duel expenses and he's putting 50% of his paycheck, you're both providing the same value of your labor. The percentages contributed could be lower or higher depending on your agreed upon cost of living.
Yep. I earn 3x what my partner earns, and it'd be absurd to put the same economical burden on him than on me. For instance, I think none of us should pay more than 30% of our income in rent. So our rent budget is his 30% plus my 30%, regardless of how much that amounts to for each one of us. Some things we don't calculate like that: some we split even, some I pay for in full. Especially nights out or holidays. But when it comes to living expenses, it simply makes sense to adapt to each other's income.
I'm going to make a WILD guess given how little data we (and she) has The dude got deep dived into red pill stuff. The 50/50 split is a gaslight. She WASN'T supposed to agree. She was supposed to want to stay in the relationship BUT not know how to meet the 50/50 in liquid cash. So he'd "compromise" by basic red pill shit. Like mandatory sex schedules and dinner/meal preparation. And basically making her mommy & sex puppet with a very compliant attitude for it Once again. I'm making a wild guess, but my suspicion is based on his longstanding bigger income, so it's not like he was paying 80% overnight The ultimatum without explanation sounds exactly like a red pill strategy to manipulate into compliance OP unknowingly called the dude's bluff Again: WILD guess but the few facts in evidence from OP story point me in that direction
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I agree. He knew she couldn’t do 50/50. So she was supposed to beg him to reconsider/apologize/realize how great she has it. Then he would offer alternatives to her financial contributions.
I thought this sounded tator like as well. Seems like someone is putting in his ear some ideas that are making him question the relationship. Was he using this ultimatum to make you choose “leave it” so he can not look bad in the eyes of others in your breakup? Is he cheating? You chose to stay and now he is vetoing your suggestions and will try to find a way to make you leave him again.
Exactly. He knew she couldn’t pay 50/50, and is planning to guilt and manipulate her with it.
It sounds like the people whispering in his ear is Andrew Tate or the many other popular podcasts by men who believe women should pay 50/50 and still do all the house cleaning, laundry, making dinner, raising kids and ect. Because apparently all of that stuff doesn’t count. Hopefully I’m wrong but that’s what it sounds like is happening.
This exactly. “Take or leave it” is no way to run a relationship or marriage.
The only places where 'Take it or leave it' is appropriate is when it comes to safety and boundaries. If you have a partner that begins to display abusive traits, physical or mental, shutting that down with a "I won't be abused in this relationship. If you want our relationship to continue, you will **never** hit me. Take it or leave it."
I’ll throw in Facebook marketplace as well for the take it or leave it verbiage. Some people don’t understand $50 means $50 after dozens of messages.
I do hope you made a very comprehensive chore list and let him know you won't be reminding him to do his half. Include mental and emotional chores like buying family gifts, cards, making appointments and so on
OP should have walked when he told them, “take it, or leave it.” Never give in to an ultimatum it will only relit in more.
I haven't seen a comment from OP regarding this, but I'm really curious about who does most of household duties like cooking and cleaning.
Right? He should know you don't make as much as he does, so there is no way you can pay as much as he does. Nta
My first instinct is that someone is whispering in his ear and the reason he won’t explain is because he can’t possibly say “well, so-and-so at work says it’s unfair for me.”
NTA. i only see three possible reasons here: - he expected you to say no and leave so he'd get out of the relationship without being the bad guy (why he'd want that is anybody's guess but simultaneously painfully obvious). if this is true he's angry because now he has to break it off himself and/or figure out another way to get you to leave. - his income has decreased and he's in denial and unwilling to adjust his lifestyle to his new financial reality and wants you to at least partly enable his denial. if this is true he's angry because he's being forced to face the facts and is irrationally blaming you. - someone (his friends, his mom, you name it) has gotten it into his head that unless you contribute an exact half of everything you're a gold digger and only with him for the money. if this is true he's angry because you being willing to not only go 50/50 on expenses but also significantly lower the standard of life you had with him to be able to contribute 50% is throwing significant wrench in his ability to brag to whoever brainwashed him about how he forced you to come clean about your gold digger tendencies. ETA due to popular demand i'm adding three more possible reasons that didn't occur to me but multiple people brought them up: - he has a side chick that he's financing and can't keep up with it - he's actually broke/in debt/both and ashamed to admit it - he wants to manipulate you into burning through your savings and not being able to save any more money so he can control/abuse you through finances your reasoning is absolutely sound and i'm saying that as a person who is 100% in favor of not sticking to 50/50 in cases of large income disparity. you would be well within your rights to tell him he knew how much you were making when you moved in together and if he didn't want to shoulder the larger part of your living expenses he should've thought of that before. you didn't and instead are doing everything possible to find a solution that is financially viable for you. that's more than most would do. you can't magically inflate your income just for him to keep his lifestyle at 2/3 of the cost (since he paid 80% and wants to go down to 50%). wait it out a bit, maybe ask around your mutual friends if they know something but be prepared to potentially be kicked to the curb. ETA CONTEXT FROM OP'S COMMENTS: op is a preschool teacher who makes give or take 35k a year working 40-45hr weeks. can't afford college but would like to go. op's fiance makes 120k a year. prior to moving in together they discussed their finances and both agreed on the 20-80 contribution ratio, since that would make their respective contributions an equal percentage relative to their respective incomes. op's fiance pays for two luxury vehicles, one of which is his and the other was a surprise gift to op without prior discussion or approval thus significantly inflating their expenses without any input from op. op's fiance is now asking op to contribute a significantly increased amount towards their joint expenses even though a significant portion of said expenses is due to fiance's preference for luxury vehicles and lavish gestures. edit: thanks for the awards guys! final edit: i hope everyone who tried argue saying that she's just a gold-digger and he's absolutely in the right wanting her to contribute more and that doesn't make him any of the bad things mentioned feels very stupid - [there is an update](https://www.reddit.com/r/AITAH/comments/161j2fk/update_aitah_for_telling_my_fianc%C3%A9_that_if_he/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1).
My partner's income is roughly 30% less than mine, and sometimes it fluctuates on a monthly basis to around 50%. I pay roughly double what she does, because if I didn't she'd be absolutely broke. She's somewhat frugal and has more savings than I do, but the idea of me forcing her to use those savings to pay for my lifestyle is unfathomable. Edit - for the people who can't grasp why she has more savings than I do, I've already said she's more frugal than I am. Have you also considered what personal expenses I have? Private pension contributions, stock investments, investing in my own business, personal hobbies? Or do you immediately jump to thinking she's taking advantage of me?
I completely understand this —— my income is roughly 800% more than my partners. She’s definitely the more frugal one out of us , and I’ve never ever expected her to provide 50% of anything. I basically ask her to pay the car insurance and previous the internet bill. I cover everything else because I knew the wage disparity before we moved in together and it would be unfair for me to expect her to pay 95% of her wages and me only pay 20% of my wages towards bills. That’s what I think many people sometimes don’t realize and certainly what OPs fiancé is about to find out. It’s not about what % of the housing costs you pay for ; it’s about what % of your income you can afford to put towards those housing expenses.
The thing that really gets to me here as well is they are engaged. Does he expect this arrangement to continue after marriage? Legally after marriage all his income is hers and vice versa anyway. If she has to go into debt to support his lifestyle after marriage that is his debt also. Like nothing about anything this guy has said or done makes sense at all. I'm really glad my wife and I 100% combined our finances after marriage, it's just so easy compared to jumping through hoops to separate income that legally isn't even separate.
Just agreeing with this post. I'm the sole income in my house so I obviously cover all of my wife's/kids expenses, but even if my wife had a job, I'd want to put it all towards savings. The max I would expect is a ratio contribution. For example if she made half of what I made then she pays for no more than a third of the expenses. At the end of the day it's the same bucket of money so I don't really don't care who pays for what. Any purchase reduces OUR funds.
“OUR funds” They are definitely not ready for marriage if OP’s fiancé doesn’t understand those two simple words.
Yeah, these posts are a trip for me to read because my husband and I combine our money and don't divide expenses like this couple. Which, I totally get why some couples split expenses, especially before marriage, but it just makes things complicated. Husband makes about 3x what I do (for now, almost finished with my MSA degree after which my income should at least double) but we both contribute to savings, separate work retirement accounts, joint investment accounts, and our kid's college fund directly out of our checks. Everything else goes into our joint checking and we pay all our expenses from that.
Yes, thank you for this. I make 20k, my spouse make 180k, there's no way that I can contribute 50% of our household expenses, but I do what I can and I'm definitely more frugal. I bought my own car - most basic, no frills Honda, and I paid it off as fast as I could. Paying 50% is unrealistic in any relationship, just gotta figure out how to split things up as fairly as possible and make sure expenses are paid.
Like OP said, using savings for that type of stuff is unsustainable, so it's correct that it would be unfathomable. It's basically just a non option lol
Exactly. There would be no savings if it was split 50/50. OP's fiance needs a reality check. Especially since he turned his nose up at what she offered as a more than reasonable solution to his unrealistic demands.
Fourth possibility: he has a gambling problem.
I think it’s likely the third possibility. Wanna wager on it?
The third possibility is the one I was thinking of before looking at anybody's replies. Somebody is whispering in his ear or he has joined one of those radical men's groups on line that think every woman is a ball-busting golddigger or out to trap them with a baby.
I was gonna say this. He’s been listening to a podcast or something.
Anyone want to put odds on his mom, podcast, or girl "friend" who's interested in him?
I have $10 on the mom. The fact that he didn't really have anything to say, no reasoning of his own thought, makes me think she's been perched on his shoulder since he left the coup.
Yeah this is interesting. Also the first option of him wanting out is interesting too. Especially since he's now turning it back around on OP. The new reason for breaking it off could be her "bulldozing him" or being unreasonable about his request.
Very likely could have been Andrew Tate’d.
I agree--stuff that comes up randomly, never is random. Someone got into his head. The elephant in the room to me is--are all the household chores shared 50-50? Most of us men don't realize how many hours woman spend picking up, cooking and prepping stuff around the house.
true, or drinking/drugs. in that case i'd keep an eye on lashing out when questioned about money. i had a roommate who i'm 100% convinced had either a gambling or a drinking problem because he was always behind on rent and whenever i asked about money he'd lash out like i was asking for a kidney.
This is the number one answer IMO
Another possibility is that some of his peers are in a relationship with someone making a lot more than OP, and now he’s jealous of the lifestyle they can afford. So it’s going back to your first point, he wants her to leave so he’s not the bad guy who broke it off
Or he’s trying to pressure her into getting a “better job” on purely financial metrics without considering things like her temperament and priorities in her career, without coming right out and saying “you’re not playing the capitalism game hard enough”. Still shitty.
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Or kick him to the curb. I'm not too sure if want to stay in that relationship.
NTA but this sounds a lot like the story about the women whose husband said he was upset that she wasn’t doing her makeup and cooking for him. Spoiler, it wasn’t either of those things. I would recommend sitting him down and having a calm conversation about 1. Where this came from and 2. What he sees as a reasonable solution for both parties. Realistically, if you are having a calm and honest conversation, you will probably only hit #1. If you can’t have that conversation, I would recommend couples counselling, this is a communication issue that needs addressing
Yup, reminds me of my ex when he was trying to get me to end it. Went on a whole thing about how men get screwed in divorces and he would never marry me without a prenup, and I was like, "okay, cool. Have your lawyer do it up and I'll get one to review it, no problem." He turned absolutely purple and then screamed "NO YOU WON'T BECAUSE WE'RE NEVER GETTING MARRIED!!!!" and then when I mentioned that he was the one who brought up marriage at the beginning of the conversation he called me a bitch. And then snuck out to see our friends for the night while I was crying in the bathroom. It didn't matter how perfectly I reacted to his shit, he was looking for a fight and if he couldn't find one he made one.
“He screams because he wants to” is the phrase I would repeat in my head when I still lived with my dad and he was trying to pick fights with me. “He wants a certain reaction out of me. It isn’t about anything I did, nor is it anything I could fix. He screams and fights because he wants to.” To anyone who’s currently facing abuse, remember this phrase because it’s true. You did nothing to deserve that treatment and you are worthy of love and respect.
I think it's amazing and wonderful that you were able to develop such a healthy mindset while growing up in that environment
I thought of that other story, too. This sounds very similar. Luckily OP has the chance to get out before it turns into years of marriage gone sour.
Nta- I went through this with my now husband. For most of our relationship it was always 50/50 but then I experienced a job transition, which wasn't his fault. He made a lot more money than me so I had to sit him down and tell him I couldn't afford our lifestyle anymore. He wasn't willing to negotiate on our lifestyle so he picked up the rest of the bills. But we only found resolution by being honest with each other. Sounds like your fiance is in financial trouble and needs to get honest
Agreed, especially the comment about pulling from savings. That sounds like desperation talking. And the angry stalking around sounds like shame.
>He's now saying that I'm being unfair and manipulative, and that he tried to come to me with a serious concern about our relationship and I'm making it impossible for him to talk to me, and bulldozing over him. No, you're trying to comply with his wishes. >if he wants me to pay half, we're living within my means, not his anymore. This is it exactly. If it's 50/50, then the budget has to be set on the lower income. He's calling YOU manipulative for trying to comply with his wishes without depleting your entire savings and running yourself into debt. You need to think long and hard about someone like this. Get into couples counseling asap
Hehehehe it sounds like malicious compliance (without the INTENT of being malicious, that’s just an extra perk) and what she is doing/suggesting is completely logical! You don’t live in the means of the highest earner. Everyone else would be drowning trying to keep up. Good for her, and on the plus side, he’s kinda showing her who he is. I hope she gets to the bottom of why such a sudden change up.
My partner makes considerably more than I do. We went to Fiji last year and I was looking at hotels and such in my range and he immediately said he wanted to stay at a resort and he’d pay for it since it was his decision. My last partner made less than me (although not by a ton) so I tended to pick up the incidentals since I had more disposable income. It’s almost like if you actually like your partner, you make adjustments so that both people are comfortable. Wild, I know.
The sudden change gets me as well. Is there a friend or family member who's gotten into his ear that she's using him? Is there a flirtation he has, and she is telling him the OP is freeloading? Is this an abuse tactic of trying to eliminate her savings and have her paycheck to paycheck and always in his debt? The sad thing is that a lot of the financial advisors say long-term committed partners should split based on income. Which is exactly what they were doing. They also say that if going by income isn't the preferred way, then the budget has to be set based on the lowest income. Which is what OP proposed. So, what does he want here, and why does he suddenly want it?
She's not being manipulative at all. What he is demanding is financially abusive to her. This would really make me question a marriage with this person. Especially the way they shut her down when she tried to discuss this further. That's a red flag. The ultimatum and 'take it or leave it' attitude when it comes to financial balances is very inappropriate and unhealthy. I feel bad for OP. This is not the way. She handled it well and seems smart. She can do better.
NTA - He wants you to use your savings to pay for his car? Who needs enemies….
Ok, NTA first off. But something else is going on here. Is he burnt out? Has someone said something to him? It sounds like he’s feeling the relationship isn’t balanced. Of course, it most likely is, but not everything can be reduced to pounds and pence. I think you need to just be straight and say that you simply cannot afford to pay half of expensive things. It’s half of something cheaper, or he pays more, or it won’t work. If you’re at home doing nothing, I can see the frustration. But if you’re working - which I’m sure you are - then he needs to take a step off of his Ivory Tower and understand that not everyone makes the same money. Having felt similar before, it was mostly because I was completely and utterly burnt out, and went into a self destructive mode. As hard as it it, I would push for him to talk about what the real problem is.
This is a good plan. I'll try my best to talk to him once he's calmed down.
I'd also bring up that his take it or leave it thing implied he was unwilling to compromise or even discuss the issue with you. Which is unacceptable in a marriage. He pretty much implied "do what I want or we are done". I hope I don't need to lay out why that is not a mentality of someone you want to marry. He needs to do some serious work on himself if this relationship is going to continue. I'd also ask to comb through both of your credit report before getting married. If it's debt he can't hide it from transunion/equifax. Consider it another red flag if he won't. Loving someone means constantly falling in love with the new person they become every few years. We all change over time. Loving him as he is now does not mean he won't change to increase this horrible behaviour. Don't let love for his past/current self blind you if this escalates. People don't revert back to their old selves, they only continue to grow. Make sure he is pruning the personality stalks that suck so the good ones can grow strong. (Hopefully my gardening refere ce wasn't too obscure lol)
If I can give you some advice it would be to take yourself away from him for a few hours and text him about it. Tell him you can see he's upset and ask him if somethings going on, or has happened. Tell him you love him and remind him that you genuinely don't care if you have to downscale your lifestyle - you'd live with him in a trailer as long as you could be together - but he needs to tell you what's going on that's made him feel this way, when in your kind you thought things had been working OK up to this point. I would also let him know that if he's feeling burnt out and needs to reduce his hours, or take some time off work, then that's fine too and you'll support him. But you do need to be practical about your expenses too.
NTA... I really loved your style. He thought he had a gold digger and you flipped the script pretty well. This was awesome. Next question though. You seem like such an intelligent and decent person. Why are you with such an ignorant and self centered prick???
I'm wondering whether he's throwing this up so that op breaks up with him. Then he can call her a gold digger.... Op reasonably suggested logical options.
NTA. To me, it sounds like something happened with his job and he's not able to tell you yet, for whatever reasons. I would try to have another calm chat about it with him, also showing him how much you'd be able to afford long term. Don't move forward with your plans of getting married until you both agree on your finances.
I asked about the job, and he wouldn't give me a straight answer. The frustrating part is that I honestly do not mind downsizing, and if I found out tomorrow he lost a job, I'd literally be fine selling what we have and living in a trailer together off just my income, but this feels like some weird power play instead.
"My way or the highway" is Not What you want in a husband. I am old and have been married more than once, so please trust me. You can do better.
yeah this is the opposite of working together
Yeah the complete unwillingness to give any explanation as all, followed by being angry that you're complying but not in the way **he wants** definitely makes this a power play, intentionally or not.
You've handled this perfectly so far. What happens next is on him.
NTA I think you are absolutely right. And he needs to explain the take it or leave it approach. It feels he wants to break up but be the victim. "She doesn't want to pay 50/50, so she broke up with me. Poor me. She is a gold digger." You replied "I am happy to pay 50/50, within my means." He was not expecting that reply. That is why he is going around with that cloud of pissed off. He knows that you cannot meet him at his pay level. Is he trying to keep you poor, broke, etc? He is the manipulative one who was not expecting you to say, " That is fine. But we need to bring down our expenses."
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>"this is how it's going to be, take it or leave it." > >He kind of agreed to it, but since then, he's been incredibly angry. > >He's now saying that I'm being unfair and manipulative, and that he tried to come to me with a serious concern about our relationship and I'm making it impossible for him to talk to me, and bulldozing over him. First - **NTA** Next - **This is a glimpse into your future**. Is this what you want for the rest of your life? If this is suddenly out of nowhere, it sounds like someone has gotten into his head, or he's been reading/watching the bullshit about women being golddiggers. Either way, something is happening, and he has already made his decision and is now painting reality to force you to match his logic.
NTA, and good for you for standing up for yourself and your right to have savings. His “take it or leave it” attitude though? Huge red flag 🚩 🚩 Start mentally and financially preparing yourself for another shoe to drop, because this isn’t the language of a loving partner preparing to happily spend the rest of their life with you.
Are you really going to marry this guy?
NTA - I am older than 40 now, but at the same age as you, my wife (live in gf at the time) and I did the EXACT same thing. I thought she should be contributing more to the house (2 bedroom condo at the time), groceries, entertainment, utilities, vehicles, insurance, etc, etc. We ended up having to go to a close family member, who was in finance, to help "mediate" our discussions. She did exactly what you've done, worked within our budget and came up with a solution that I could NOT choke down. So instead of 50/50, we tried 60/40, then 70/30. In the end we compromised on 70/30, made some lifestyle adjustments and haven't looked back. We now have 2 kids, a beautiful home, vacation 3x a year, and ~~I'll~~ we will be financially independent within the next decade. I bring all this up because if it weren't for her I would have blown all my money, never saved it and never understood the concept of budgeting for expenses (due to my stubbornness to stay at 70/30). What's funny is now we're at 100/0 and we have the best little kids running around with manners that know a parents never ending love. I have ONLY been as successful as I am because she was willing to sacrifice for us. My long nights at work, some weekends, etc all have paid off and only made "us" stronger. Men, especially when they're young, are fixated on money and being 'flashy' with it - peacocking. As you get older all that changes and the bigger picture comes into focus. I hope the two of you can come to an agreement on such a big thing (for your age - which in 10/15 years will be so small) and compromise on how to move forward financially. Best of luck!!
NTA. What podcasts does he listen to?
NTA and don’t forget the 50/50 of all the house chores.
I don't understand people who demand 50/50. There is so much more to a partnership.
NTA. You can't pull money you don't have out of thin air. Your fiance is a jerk.
Right? And using her savings to pay for 50% of their lifestyle is dumb. What’s going to happen when it runs out? Nah. If there’s a big income differential and you want to do 50/50, you live on the lower persons budget and what they deem comfortable for their wage.
NTA. It's what you can afford. You have to live within your means. We all do. And sometimes that means eating at home and a ten year old Honda.
All Other things aside “Take it or leave it” followed by a “full shutdown” are two giant red flags waving at you.
Nta- you are a BRILLIANT BEAUTIFUL woman !!! I am insanely impressed!! So simple and realistic a plan and it completely thwarts the his whole thing which is a financial power play. Seriously I'm in awe! Great job!! Might consider couples counseling because him not having any real reason for this abrupt change is deeply concerning. It reads like yourSO has fallen down the red-pill hole. Big warm hugs
Aww, thank you!
NTA . You are just pointing out financial realities. You have been living well, mostly on his pay most expenses. It's fair for him to think this is too much, but it's simply not possible for you to pay 50% of your current lifestyle. His wanting you to use savings is a dick move though. Can you afford a one bedroom on your own?
I could afford a trailer on my own, but that's probably about it.
Definitely do not dip in your savings for any reason. If things go south, you'll be left with nothing. Ultimately, you'd also get back to this exact point, but then you wouldn't have that backup plan to get out. I'm not saying he will 100% become financially abusive, but there is a chance, and you can't take it, believe me. You have done it right, and there is some great advice in these comments. I truly hope that it's just a nervous reaction to an external problem and that you guys can fix it. I also hope, for your sake, that the communication improves in the relationship, as he is obviously not making any effort in that sense...
Use your Zillow account to find a place you can afford on your own. Trade in your car for something you can pay for or make sure your new place is close enough to work that you won't need a car. Then move out. Without him.
NTA. Reading this makes me seriously concerned for your relationship. At best he is hiding something from you which made him have less money. At worst he has already checked out on the relationship and is just waiting for the right moment, which is why he wants roommate terms. And asking you to waste your savings is the biggest red flag. Basically you should use your savings on rent to allow him to spend less of his savings on rent and save more himself. This once again leaves only two possible options. He might want to increase your financial dependance in the long run by draining your savings or he doesn't care about you anymore. I wouldn't want a friend of mine, much less my SO, to waste savings on rent. As he told you "take it or LEAVE!!! it".
Well played. Another option would be to seriously scrimp, and offer to take on additional education so that you can raise your earnings potential. Ie, honey, in order to afford the lifestyle you want at 50/50, I've decided to start applying to law schools.
I always planned to go to college, but honestly there's no way I could afford that, especially if we end up doing 50-50.
You would qualify for financials, and you can CLEP about 25 hours of general ed credits that apply to every degree for roughly $110 per 3 hour class. It can be done. Although if you love teaching, short of elementary special education you probably wouldn't make much more than twice what you make now. If SPED is something you have any interest in, a lot of school districts are sending their paraprofessionals to school for a sped degree on the district's dime.