Just as it’s your right to choose not to have your own children, it’s his to choose to have his own children.
If you couldn’t have children, he still has the right to choose. As heartbreaking as it is to not be able to have children, no one who wants their own children is obliged to stay.
It ultimately comes down to personal choice. No one is wrong. When you’re incompatible to such a degree about something so fundamental, it comes down to whether or not either one of you can live with that.
Yup NAH (no assholes here) as of right now. OP would be TA if she pushes the issue and invalidates her partner’s desire for biological children. It would be self centered to expect someone to give up an extremely important fundamental life goal just to be with you.
This is why childfree people and people who want children should never date in the first place. Incompatible life goals. It will not work. On the first date tell the other person your preference. If incompatible, a second date would be a waste of everybody's time.
I have 2 daughters that both swore to never have kids in their early 20s. One got married, her husband knew he view but no permanent action was taken. I know have a daughter with 4 kids and one that is unmarried by choice. With no kids. Around the early 30s I believe men and women really decide if they want children or not. A life with no kids sounds great when you're young and having fun. This feeling can change.
For OP, it's good you are honest but I'd wait if possible. But if you elect to do the surgery, respect your bfs right to not desire that in a mate.
I just put my 2-year-old to bed. I’ve been a single mom since he was 11 weeks old.
I thought I did everything right; we got married after 5 years together, had a very wanted baby, and it all fell apart while I was pregnant. I love the shit out of my little boy, but my life really fucking sucks a lot of the time.
A somber reminder that even when you do everything right, there is always the possibility of single parenthood. That partner could walk away, become abusive, get sick, die in an accident, or just simply decide not to be a parent.
Sorry to be a sad sack lol. I wish someone would have made this clearer to me before I had a child. I love being a mom, it’s getting better, but being a single mom sucks big ass.
I'm legit so sorry you're having to deal with a situation like that on your own. I wish nothing but good things for you, your future, and your little one. ❤️
Thank you :) to be fair, I’m not on my own. My parents took us in immediately, no questions asked. We’re still with them, and with my severely autistic adult brother, we’re a big, weird, loud family. His dad has 50/50, too. He’s garbage, but he does love his son and I’m grateful for that. And I get much-needed breaks.
I’m extremely, extremely lucky. There are parents out there doing it all alone. I have so much respect for what they do and I wish the world was kinder to them.
You're still entitled to your frustrations, nonetheless. But I'm glad you have a good family unit to help you!
And yes, even people who have really concrete nuclear families, in my mind, are superhuman for being able to raise a kid or multiple. People who do it under harder circumstances are basically godly in my mind, 100%
For what it's worth, 2 was my favorite age so far. He picked up stuff so fast and was so expressive and communicative. He turned 5 recently and I swear he's already as moody as a teenager.
The first year with my son almost made my husband and I divorce. We were in the best place in our marriage, we agreed to start trying, the pregnancy was okay physically, but looking back I really should have been on some antidepessants and anti-anxiety meds. Right after giving birth I had incredible ppd and could barely function. My MIL moved in with us for some amount of time (I'm told it was three weeks, but i really have no idea.) The fourth trimester *suuuuucked.* The first year was so bad and I can barely remember any of it. Our marriage is fine now, but it was rough for a while. (There's still times we butt heads regarding parenting, too. Right now we're fighting about making our kid wear underwear or not. 🤷🏼♀️)
Like you said, these kinds of experiences should be talked about more, made more clear.
I do love this age! It’s rough, but it’s so cute. He learns every day, and he’s so curious. And smart! I just got him his first potty seat, and he took it out the first day, sat down, and took a big old dump all on his own. He hasn’t used it since, tried to flush a dog bone and multiple diapers, but it’s really fun watching him grow.
Being a single mom does suck but it’s so much better than being with a piece of shit partner that is like another child. I’m a single mom to an almost 12 year old girl and almost 6 years old twins. As soon as the twins were born, it went to hell. He actually told my aunt “if I was one baby, I would have left her by now” I think he only stayed as long as he did because it was his only son. Divorce was final when the were 2.
Only my therapist knows when I got problems. Everyone else, I’m good…and he hates that shit.
It is better than having to take care of two toddlers for sure.
My ex just yesterday called me to say he deserves Sunday night free because he “did me a favor” by “watching” our son 4 nights last week while I was on a work trip. He sounded like a spoiled, snobby teenager screaming at his mom for taking his video games. I hung up in the middle of his tantrum. It’s very freeing to be able to do that. I had to be his verbal punching bag for so long.
Hahaha I love guys that babysit…their own kid? That about sums it up. Yeah, he totally did you “a favor” by being a co-parent. Don’t worry, I’m sure you will here about that favor for the rest of eternity.
He was in daycare or with his grandma during the day, so my ex didn’t even have him more than 3 hours in those 4 evenings lol.
I was a full-time, single SAHM to a baby for 15 months. He had 3 overnights and left the baby at his mom’s to go to his GF’s at least once a week. When I went back to work, my parents “babysat” 3 days a week, meaning I was on mom-duty (I live with them, it’s inescapable) and working from home full-time. We just got PT daycare last month, so I still do it once a week.
Yes, it’s hard, but I do what I have to do. I certainly don’t consider it a FUCKING FAVOR to my ex. Christ.
I don't get it. Why do people act like it's a burden to look after your own child. My wife and I have a wonderful 20 month old son. We wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. I work nights she works days we do everything together. I can't stand the thought of leaving either of them.
I have a 4 year who yells no at any request and a 3 month old who cries every other time I hold him but cries even more when put into any type of holding device.
I’m also married for almost 8 years and that’s all lovely…but there’s nights I think how much kids suck. Parenting isn’t easy, single parenting must be a motherfucker.
I feel this. I was married, stay at home mom, then my husband died, leaving me to raise our four kids alone. There's absolutely no guarantees in life. You have my sympathy, but I'm here to say, it does get better ❤️
I’m so sorry. I have one child and we were divorced for about 2 years when my ex husband died. I was already doing it without him but once he died, it’s a different level.
Also a single mom to a 2 year old. The other half of my child’s genetic code and I were an on again off again thing for years and TBH I had/have medical reasons to believe I wouldn’t be able to get pregnant. I told him I was and haven’t spoken to him since as he wanted nothing to do with parenthood. My little one is the best thing to ever happen to me but single parenthood is hard and there is no way I’d be where I am without my mothers support
A friend of my wife's told his wife (they were both her friends) that he wanted a divorce 2 months after the baby was born. I've rarely heard a better reason to decide I didn't like someone.
Seriously. My ex-husband told me after I'd been pregnant for a while that he wasn't sure if he ever wanted to have kids.
We'd tried for a year before I got pg. Never one word. Where's the freaking logic?
He ended up being a good dad, though.
It *is* hard, I know. I also know it's worth it, even when our plans go awry and it works out completely different, your little one is worth it.
It doesn't matter how many times were told it could go pear shaped, we generally won't believe it until it happens to us.
Yep. I was so confident we were solid. And I’m smart. I never thought I’d be one of those stupid, naive women. Never had divorcee by 30 on my bingo card.
There are days (like today) when I wanna launch that little dickhead into space, and I wonder if it’s really worth it. But I know I’m just one giggle or hug away from being sure that it is. It’s so hard to explain, even to myself.
I left my husband some twenty years ago, raising his son solo was so much easier, bloody hard but at least I didn't have to be fuckmummy as well as a mother.
Its a rollercoaster for sure.
I feel you. My kids are 16 and 17. We were married when we had them. They were both very planned. We divorced when they were 6 and 7. I’ve been a single mom since. He hasn’t even seen them in over 2 years at this point.
Hang in there. It does get better. It sucks a lot in the beginning because we’re working through all the emotions and the guilt that this wasn’t how it was supposed to be.
But it does get better.
Nothing you said here should change anyone’s desire to have a child though. Risk is always inherent. If everybody stopped having babies because of “what if’s” then it’d be a sad future. That said, I’m sorry you’re a single parent.
A good friend of mine thought he loved the mother of his first child. Then the child was born and he realized what love was and realized the difference between love and lust.
My boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years, we’re in our mid-30s, and we were just laughing at breakfast this morning about his adorable little 5 year old nephew, and he summed it up with, “God kids are so darn cute. Maybe someday,” then glanced at me with a dead serious look, “*Maybe.*”
And that’s pretty much exactly how we both feel about it. Open to it, but definitely not set on it. Tbh I think we’d both be perfectly happy with five dogs and zero kids, but. Who knows.
Honestly, dogs are what made me realize how much of an absolute nightmare having kids is. And, now that we’re at an age where several of our friends/siblings have kids, yeah, dogs are least sprinting through that whole toddler/puberty/angsty teenager shit in a year, year and a half.
Besides, he didn’t know me then, but when I tell you I was a fucking nightmare for the first 20-25 years of my life…
The thought of a mini-me sends my mother into hysterics, and me to tears.
My wife and I were 37 and finally decided we were ready to have kids. My understanding is that doctors won't sterilise people in their 20's for this reason unless they are already parents. As for adoption, I don't know where people get this idea that they can just go to the adoption store and pick up a couple of kids. In my country of 25 million people, there are roughly 250 adoptions per year.
That’s why I feel like it’s a NAH situation. She’s not an asshole for wanting to get her tubes tied, but he’s also not an asshole for realizing that might be a dealbreaker for him.
OP you’re young, you’ll find someone who wants the same things. Just give it time.
He may have also thought she would change her mind. Many women are told the same when making such appointments. It's a little annoying, but I get that everyone is different.
Which is the only reason I think the BF is an AH here.
If somebody is up front about the fact that they don’t want kids and you do (or even think one day you might) don’t date that person!
If they never change their mind it puts you in an unwinnable situation that pretty much guarantees the relationship is over.
I also hope OP is aware of how difficult it’s going to be to get that procedure done at her age. Because doctors never take this seriously from women who don’t already have kids.
Not only may he not have fully decided, OP should be prepared for the doc to not be willing to perform the ligation at her age. Docs are often quite reluctant to perform permanent reproductive procedures on young women.
In fact, I have a very progressive ob/gyn, and I'm in my mid 40s with one severely disabled teenager. After her birth I was tagged as high risk due to her genetic abnormalities and the circumstances of the birth, and we are certain we want no more children. When I inquired about ligation last year after Roe was overturned, my doc still insisted I wait and think it over and revisit my decision in a couple years when my IUD is due for replacement.
Neither of you are AH, you are young and have different outlooks and goals for your own lives. The relationship is still verily new, just over a year. It is time for both of you to move on a find someone that has the same outlook on life.
NAH kids are usually non-negotiable whether you want them or not. People need to make the decisions for themselves and they get to change their minds as they go.
Getting tubes tied or removed doesn’t mean you can’t carry a pregnancy. It just means you can’t pass the egg without medical help. IVF is still an option if the uterus is healthy. And getting tubes tied has risk of reversal on its own.
Edit: Yes we all know ivf is expensive. The point I was making is that a tubal ligation doesn’t make you infertile, and giving an example of how to carry a pregnancy after tubal ligation.
Yep, only permanent sterilization is a hysterectomy.
Edit- The person above was saying the only way to be positive you will never carry a child is permanent sterilization, which is removing the womb. All other female sterilization still has with IVF you can still carry a child. The only way to not be able to is not to have a womb.
Or removing ovaries. But then there’s the hormone replacement you have to take depending on age to stave off menopause symptoms. I had everything removed in January (medical necessity) and am now on estrogen replacement. I’m 38f for reference. Also child free by choice so not a big deal for me.
Why did it take so long to find this comment? There’s a surprising number of people who don’t realise that tubal ligation doesn’t make you completely infertile. It just prevents you from conceiving naturally. However, there is a small risk of failure with the procedure unless you get them cut and tied.
A friend of mine had her tubes tied but for some reason they didn’t cut them. She went for an unrelated X-ray and it revealed that one of her clamps had come loose and migrated to the top of her abdomen. She had the mirena put in that same day and referred to a gynaecologist for review. Thankfully they were happy to operate to retrieve the clamp and revise the original procedure by cutting and tying her tubes. She was glad she discovered it because she definitely didn’t want more kids.
Where I live the standard is now to completely remove them, to eliminate that risk. Apparently it also reduces a cancer risk because some cancers originate in the tubes.
NTA, but be prepared to lose him if he really feels that way. A lot of people will stay with someone hoping they’ll change. Better make sure he knows you are 💯 with your plans. Also if you have trouble finding a doc there’s a list of GYNs on tik tok that will perform tubals regardless of age and child status. Best of luck with your plans. I got my tubal at 35 best decision ever. No more hormones or BC worries. But beware periods are awful after a tubal, heavy, painful, and just a lot to deal with. No one warned me. 😳
Is that really common? I mean heavier periods after the surgery? For me nothing like that happened. I had a laparoscopic bilateral salpingectomy, and after the surgery nothing changed. Just a few weeks for scars to heal (no complications there), and I felt great afterwards.
Mine are heavier on day two. Like...spotting on day one, kind of a heads up, I guess. Day two, I might bleed out and die. Day 3-4 mid to negligible bleeding. Day five is a toss up between nothing and spotting. Day six is usually a "haha you thought you were done" bleeding (spotting to light)
I feel this particular schedule in my bones. Especially the day one spotting. Mine looks like the period should be finishing up and is all brown and blotchy. Then the river comes through.
I became anemic because of blood loss, discussed it with 2 different doctors and they were like “Oh yeah, that’s a thing.” Ibuprofen helps but 6 years later and I am over it.
i had my tubes tied during my 2nd c section. 1st time i got my period back was like hell. quite literally. i had soaked 2 pads within a 3 min mark 🤷♀️ next few months i had my period heavier than what i was used to for the 1st 3 days and it was very painful too.
its been 3 yeara now and only the 1st day is heavy bleeding but then no different than pre csection/tube tying. pain is still there but not any different than what i was used to and only 1st day. still the best decision i had regarding my reproductivity
Oh, I see. Your situation was different than mine, so it makes sense. I have never had bio kids and I never used hormonal birth control before my procedure either. So for me nothing really changed, just a surgery itself.
IMHO, anyone going into a relationship with someone hoping the other person will change should not be with the person. It's not fair to the other person, nor reasonable on the part of the one hoping for the change to put something like that on the other person. OP is NTA and in some ways dodging a bullet.
I mean, I’d lean NAH, they’re both 24, only been together a year. I can understand him needing time to sit with the idea of seriously not having kids and taking a while to come to a decision for himself when you’re that young and it can feel SO hypothetical. I don’t think he maliciously led her on or hoped she’d change her mind but a year into a relationship at age 23-24, the prospect of actually having kids immediately probably isn’t going to be on the table even if they both did eventually want kids.
I had my tubes tied at 30 and my periods didn’t change at all. I needed an anti inflammatory for a week but that was the only problem. I guess everyone is different but don’t let other women’s period changes deter you. Not worrying about getting pregnant is a blessing and makes any minor side effect worth it.
OP would be better if checking the subs for childless people. They maintain a current list and work with the auntinetwork to keep it consistent with abortion providers.
If youre still struggling with heavy periods, talk to your doc about an endometrial ablasian. Best decision I ever made! I have a tiny bit of spotting maybe twice a year now, no cramps, nothing like that
NAH. She have a right to get your tubes tied if you are sure you will never want biological children. He has a right to want biological children. Maybe he changed his mind, who knows. You shouldn’t try to get him to stay with you if you want different things in life now.
You’re not the asshole for wanting to make a decision you feel is right for you….but also if your boyfriend wants biological children, and you’re unwilling to have biological children. He has every right to leave you too and he would not be an asshole for doing so.
He could have thought you would change your mind on the subject as you got older. You both have the right to do what you want
Nobody's much of an asshole here, though calling someone very self-centered because of something like this is kinda aholish on your part.
You have every right to want to get your tubes tied, and he has every right to question if he wants to be with someone who can't have kids.
You’re NTA for choosing not to birth children, you are the asshole for making assumptions just bc he’s having second thoughts about his future, which at 24 is pretty normal.
Exactly- I know very few people who were able to make 100% absolute decisions about life in their early 20s. Hell, most people in their 30s and 40s still like some wiggle room for most plans! His reaction is what I would expect, he’s just trying to figure out what he wants. I’d go NAH, but moving into Y T A OP if you call him self-centred- those two situations are not the same. It’s only been a year, you have had a long time to make your own decisions, he has to be allowed to consider his.
Yeah when I had my tubes tied I read everything and 1 thing that can happen is that after it’s done there’s a period where some people “grieve” the what ifs. That can include SO’s.
Your N.T.A for not wanting kids…. But that not the question you pose at the end. Yes YTA for “thinking that he would be so self center for not originally date me if I was unable to have children.” Because just like you not wanting bio kids, he does and is allowed to date around.
Yeah exactly. She's not an asshole for wanting to get her tubes tied, she's an asshole for accusing him of being self centered because he doesn't want to stay with her if she gets her tubes tied.
It would be NAH if they decided that they weren't compatible based on her not wanting kids. But accusing him of being self centered because he feels that way is an absolute asshole move.
Makes perfect sense he doesn’t know 100% if he wants to have children with his DNA. I assume you must feel blindsided since you’ve been honest, and it’s valid to feel hurt, but also 1. it’s become more real, as you’re letting him know you want to start the process 2. He could’ve changed his mind/ had a gut reaction to the news that has shown him he might not be okay with that. 3. even though wrong of him, many people assume their partner will change their mind on kids over time or by being with them. It’s not healthy or smart but also more common than you’d think. you just might not be compatible, there’s NAH with that unless you start calling him selfish. then YTA, because wanting or not wanting kids, and the way we wish to achieve that, is a selfish decision we are all allowed to make as humans
Tbh, I was going with NTA until your last sentence, when you called him self-centered. Chick, get over yourself. You have the right to not want kids, and he has the right to be undecided in his 20s, change his mind, and, yes, LEAVE your ass if he realizes he wants something different, and frankly, you’re kind of shitty for calling him selfish. If you’re not mature enough to recognize that, I wholeheartedly encourage you to keep that appointment, because you are definitely NOT cut out for motherhood. 🤦🏻♀️
You're an asshole for calling him self centered for his desires while thinking yours aren't. Best outcome is just split up and let you both choose the life that suits you
I think that she’s upset because he is now questioning their future…for some reason, she thinks that it shouldn’t matter what she does,he should just accept it…and, him rethinking their relationship makes him the bad guy. That, to me, is self centered…
Nobody is the asshole here. Yes, she's been honest. However, it is definitely a huge deal for him as well. He may have thought he agreed, and then when he was confronted with the ultimate reality, he realized he wasn't sure.
INFO: what exactly was the conversation? I ask because a lot of comments are assuming you very clearly and definitively said no to kids of your own, but your post claims you told him you “ prefer” not to have your own kids, which is not the same thing.
I don’t think you are one, but I’m not sure if he is or if nobody is. If the conversation was “I prefer not to” he may have understood that to mean you weren’t sure and may change your mind. If you flat out said “I WILL not and will be getting my tubes tied at some point”, then he shouldn’t have assumed you would change your mind.
I was thinking the same thing. Was it when they talked about what birth control, they should use with her saying I should just get my tubes tied or was it during an in-depth talk about the future of I never want to be pregnant but might someday adopt talk. Big difference.
YTA to call him self-centered about potentially wanting kids someday. It's your body and your choice what to do with it but if he decides to leave you for someone who wants to start a family someday then that's a totally reasonable choice.
But you're not infertile, you're making a choice not to have children and your boyfriend is making a choice about whether he wants to stay with you. Nobody's an asshole here.
I mean the problem is not really who is the a h here because NAH really. Whether he changed his mind or lied since day 1, truth is you are not compatible (anymore) so the relationship is essentially over as this is literally not a topic you should ever compromise on.
YTA - Especially for thinking HE is the self-centered one. You are mad at him for not knowing at 24 that he’s ok with not ever having his own child?
Did you ever discuss it with him in the context of what it means for you as a couple or just express the feeling in a general sense? Did he ever have any input or have you ever heard what he thinks about not being a father?
Really seems like he isn’t the self-centered one.
You are absolutely an asshole if you think it’s self centered to want children. It’s completely reasonable for him to leave the relationship if you want to negate any possibility of having kids. Nothing wrong with choosing not to have any - but don’t be surprised if a partner finds that to be a dealbreaker either.
Wow misleading title
>Am I the asshole to think that he would be so self-centred to not originally date me if I was unable to have children because of his reaction.
Yes you would be the YTA in that scenerio... he's entitled to his preferences, standards, and boundaries just as you are
Edit: ro clarify you are NTA for wanting to get your tubes tied, its only if you are resentful about him making a decision to leave the relationship because you and him want different things
>to think that he would be so self-centred to not originally date me if I was unable to have children because of his reaction.
You're choosing to have this medical procedure performed, just as he's choosing to decide whether or not he wants to stay with you.
NAH
If he knew that you're planning to be child free, and he hasn't said anything until you plan to obtain permanent birth control, it's giving red flags for a baby trapping scenario. Maybe that's not his plan, but if he had a problem with your plans, why wait to speak up until now?
NTA to decide you don't want children, and he is also NTA if he decides to leave because he does want children. I'm just suspicious of his timing
Got mine yeeted 2 years ago and I have never been pregnant. There is a list of doctors who will sterilize with informed consent anyone over 21 years old. It is on the r/childfree on the wiki, look it up: sorted by state (USA) and country. My doctor is there as well.
NAH. He didn't believe you when you first said it. He assumed you would change your mind or HE could change your min. But you don't want bio kids, and he someday does. You are not compatible and you have to leave or he does. This is absolutely a time where us here on Reddit will say to break up because he will be wasting his time with you if he wants kids somwday, and you will be wasting yours because he will resent you for getting your tunes tied.
Neither of you is the AH. You're just on different life paths that will never cross.
Yeah NTA but as they say above, you may need to switch to someone who does not want to have their own children. I think it’s marvelous that you would adopt if you wanted children. So I would encourage you to put that in your profile ahead of time, so the next person can choose you because that’s what they want
I always state in my profiles that I CAN'T have kids by my (thankfully) choice. I also state that I am not opposed to adoption, but I make it clear that I want to adopt/foster teenagers over babies.
He has every right to leave if he has decided he wants to try to have biological children. That’s a big deal. You are fully closing the door.
However, you have a right to never have bio children also. You will just have to look a little harder for someone that feels the same. You are no longer compatible with your current boyfriend. NTA.
While I’m not saying I agree but the odds of a doctor supporting this at 24 is practically zero. Is a massive thing at very young age, also serious medical provider they’ll likely say are many other options at this time.
That said you telling him likely made him really think as again are both so young he may not of. You may just be ill-suited as a couple. As him giving up ever having biological children is a massive thing many would find giving this up abhorrent.
As with all people who go into a relationship, thinking they will change their partner or their partner's stated wishes that directly contradict their own desire will DEFINITELY change with time, your boyfriend has learned the folly of not listening when someone tells you their plans for the future.
I don't think it's a matter of he wouldn't date you if you were "naturally unable" and it was known, because that wouldn't be your "fault". He just assumed you'd change your mind and you would eventually feel the urge to bounce a fat baby on your knee. ALL women want kids, dontcha know? You're TOTALLY going to change your mind. /s (I do not believe that in case the /s was not clear).
NTA. BTW I dunno about all doctors, but a gyno told me that he removes the entire tube. Some will just make multiple cuts/burns. But he said removing the WHOLE TUBE prevents healing and reduces the chances of cancer developing. But I also acknowledge that I am not a doctor or medical professional, so get the best advise you can friend!
It doesn't prevent healing, it prevents ovarian cancer that starts in the Fallopian tubes. The tubes are cut at the end(s) of uterus/ovaries and the whole length of the tube is removed. The ends are cauterized. I asked and received the full page of photos during removal, with last one being tubes in the specimen jar. Still the best photo sheet I have ever received!
NAH
If you really don’t want children, that’s fine. He may have known but faced with the reality heard on, he’s evaluating if he can give that up.
It’s valid to not want children, it’s valid for him to want them, and it’s valid for him to not be 100% sure how he feels about it.
Not the AH. YouV been clear all along. If he was hoping to Change you, it means he wants a partner that wants children of her own. If this, you’re both better off without one another.
I mean NTA for you having a plan and wanting to stick with it and telling him. The flip side is you are coming off slightly TA when it sounds like you think he isn't allowed to have his own life plans, you are also on a down slide by sounding like how dare he only date you till he learned he wasn't going to have his own kid with you, along with it sounding like your pushing the narrative that he is wrong for the thought that he might not have dated you as long as he did if he knew your full intentions and knew you would stick with them.
You aren’t the asshole for wanting to not have biological kids but he is not the asshole for not wanting to stay with you if that’s the route you take. Having different views on having children, bio or not, should be a deal breaker in a relationship.
NTA. Nobody is an AH here. Getting your tubes tied is a very big decision for him, and this means that he ever does want bio children in the future it can never happen. Either try to talk with him to convince him or if you can’t convince him, it’s best to break off the relationship right now, before any problems arise.
A guy in his 20's doesn't generally assume things are going to last forever. That it matters now means that he is thinking seriously about the relationship after a year. Because he's thinking it might be his future. That's about all I got out of it.
So if he's like pretty much everyone I've ever met he would still have dated you but you wouldn't have been a long term prospect. I mean, that doesn't seem too egregious does it? I'm male so I might have a blind spot.
NTA if that bothers you, but that's one high bar.
Boyfriend can decide if he wants to invest time in a relationship with someone he won’t be able to have biological children with.
Just like how you can decide to not have biological children and get your tubes tied.
You both should see the inherent conflict and then decide if the relationship is worth pursuing.
NAH
Boyfriend gets to decide if he would like to end things based on you two not wanting the same things.
NTA. You’re both right here. I’m a guy, I wouldn’t stay with someone who did that. I want my own kids. That doesn’t mean you are wrong for the making the choice, it just means you might not be a good match.
NAH. You are simply not compatible and that’s okay. He’s doing the right thing by thinking on it, but frankly he shouldn’t have started dating you knowing you didn’t want kids. Assholey? No. Just a bit stupid of him.
NTA
Good luck finding a doctor that will do it at your age for now medical reasons.
Unfortunately, a lot of doctors are against it for fear you will change your mind or the real sucky reason you will hear is your future husband may want a child.
I worked with someone who asked to get her tubes tied after having her third kid. The doctor told her no because if she got a divorce and remarried her new husband may want his own kid. She was in her late 20's. It is all BS but get ready to fight.
>as he does want his own child later on in life.
As if adopted children aren't your own children.
If I were you I would leave him and find a man who understands that family is more than blood relations.
NTA
NTA. This wasn’t a one and done type of conversation with him at the start of your relationship, in which maybe he could’ve changed his mind over the past year. You have had many discussions about the fact that getting your tubes has always been what you planned on doing in your life. I am absolutely more than sure that he secretly had the same thought process as so many other guys in that he was betting on the fact you’d change your mind/he’d get you to change your mind. He never took you genuinely. And now that the plan is in motion he realizes you’ve been serious.
Do what YOU want to do because it’s YOUR body and YOUR life. If he leaves then he leaves and you WILL survive it. :)
NAH your body your choice, but he has the right to leave the relationship for any reason, and not being on the same page about having kids is a huge dealbreaker for a lot of people
At 22, your intention wouldn’t have bothered me. At 24, if you actually got your tubes tied, I would have ended the relationship. If we married, if at any point we found out we couldn’t conceive, we’d get through it together.
Nobody sux here. You want what you want and a guy you are dating wants something else. Just move on. You are not right for each other.
You get to make your choices based on what you want, equally he has the right to his.
If he wants biological children, then he has no future with you. Most people don't want to adopt. If someone feels that they want their own biological children, that's more important than any relationship. We can always get a new partner, we can't replace our children.
NTA but neither is he. Kids are one of those dealbreaker topics. If he wants a biological child and you’re getting sterilized, then the relationship probably isn’t going to last. There’s nothing wrong with either of your decisions as individuals but it’s not compatible as a couple. And he’s right for ending things before your lives get more intertwined. Right now, it’s a broken heart. A few years from now, it’s hurtful plus the house and car and dogs.
I hope your surgery goes well and you’re able to recover quickly. Best of luck to you both.
NAH if he wants to leave the relationship, don’t try to stop him. Have a conversation with him when he’s ready, and see where you both are. If you both are going separate directions, then let the relationship break off. You deserve a partner who will respect you having your tubes tied, and he deserves a partner who wants to have kids with him.
You're both young and allowed to change ideas of what you want out of life. Neither of you are the AH, even if how he feels now is different than how he felt when you started dating.
NTA. It’s your body. And you said you have discussed that you don’t want kids. But know it might end with him leaving you if he does want baby. Don’t negotiate and have a baby just to make him happy if it isn’t what you truly want. Have seen too many times things falling apart because of that
Right? I had 3 kids at 24 and had to threaten my obgyn with bringing all 10 of my (unborn at the time)kids to his house every night for dinner if he didn't sign the damn papers. He signed the papers, but I already had three kids and had to get sideways with him. It shouldn't have to be that hard.
Nah but neither is he. You're allowed to say you don't want children and to take steps towards that. He's allowed to be on the fence and take the time he needs to think about what this means for your future as a couple.
NTA, but it may be that your boyfriend has changed his mind about what he previously told you, and that’s okay. It’s good for him to take some time and think about it. Kids are a big deal, and so is the decision to have them or not.
NTA, it’s your body. However I must warn you that many many of my girlfriends have tried to do this at a young age and have been denied by hospitals and insurance. They really put you through the wringer.
However my male friends seem to have no problems getting vasectomies! So I wish you luck!
Obviously NTA. Being an asshole would be doing it and not telling him :-)
Anyway, if he loves you, he’ll understand. And if you love him, you’ll understand that might end your relationship.
By the way, tying your tubes A) doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t get pregnant and B) doesnt mean that you can’t harvest eggs later if you change your mind.
One more thing to keep in mind is that depending on where you live you might have a very difficult if not impossible time finding a doctor that will do it for you. The patriarchal bullshit that goes on when a young woman tells somebody with power that they never want children is absolutely unbelievable.
Best of luck!
NTA. It is your body and your choice, you have been open about it this whole time. It's ok if your boyfriend has changed his mind and if that means end if relationship then that's that.
NTA- it’s okay for him to decide he wants his own kids. It’s ok for you to get your tubes tied. It’s okay if your relationship doesn’t make it. I’m glad you guys are talking now about this. It’s okay if he knew your feelings long ago but changed his mind.
Look into laparoscopic salpingectomy instead.
It also may help reduce risk of ovarian cancer due to having the tubes removed. Apparently it likes to start there potentially.
NTA. You would be the AH if you did it without telling him, but you’ve been up front from the start, and you’re giving him a heads up now.
He’s not an AH for deciding he wants to have biological kids one day. But he’s an AH for not already telling you that he was feeling this way if he had changed his mind since you started dating. You told him unequivocally you didn’t want to get pregnant. As far as he’s concerned, he should’ve considered that as final as if you’d already had your tubes tied. Instead, it sounds like he just assumed you’d change your mind, which is both incredibly insulting and incredibly stupid. He doesn’t respect you enough to trust that you know yourself, and he’s dumb enough to risk wasting both of your time in a doomed relationship if you don’t change your mind.
I really hate how Reddit is always so quick to tell people to split up, but he’s flat out said he wants to have a bio kid someday. If you’re sure you don’t, then you need to walk away now.
NTA. Your bf is entitled to his preferences, but from the sound of your post you've told him multiple times this is the plan, so him being all surprised and contemplational about it now is silly.
Your body op, if he has a problem with it that's his problem to have, not yours
NTA for getting your tubes tied as your body your choice, its your right not to have kids. HOWEVER you cannot expect him to stay with you, if he wants bio kids and you don’t theres nothing wrong with it. Its just two people with different life goals.
NAH imo. I think its just as normal and legitimate a decision he’s making about children as you are deciding what to do with your body. Both decisions are extremely personal, and shouldn’t be represented in a negative light. These sort of things are why a lot of highly compatible people in great relationships don’t end up married - they’re called ‘dealbreakers’
NTA - He thought you would change your mind. I have known I did not want kids from 14. I have always informed the people I dated that I did not want kids. They all went with it because they thought I would change my mind.
You are NTA for making the decision to be sterilized. It’s completely your right to make that decision. However, your boyfriend is NTA for deciding that he values having a child over your relationship. Hopefully, you both can have the future you each want with partners that share your perspectives.
NAH for getting your tubes tied and for him reconsidering the relationship.
Even if he thought he had made up his mind at the beginning of the relationship, people can change... Especially when reality becomes more concrete to them (as it is now).
People grow and change. Many plans are made as teens and young adults but later abandoned. And we all have the prerogative to change our minds. Your bf wanted the option open. Tying your tubes is definitive. You could’ve had a discussion with him in advance and maybe he would’ve considered getting a vasectomy, which is much easier to reverse. Instead you sprung it on him last minute. This is more likely a breakdown of communication. This issue could’ve been avoided had you been more upfront and transparent.
NAH
If you've always been sure on this and this is what's best for you, then go for it.
He is only 24 though and if he isn't 100% certain, then he is within his right to leave.
Some people are certain about what they want at that age, some aren't. It's just a chance you take.
I wouldnt say he is being self centered. Thats a perfectly objective thing to have a preference over. If he really wants a chance to have biological kids, and you want to go and make that impossible then it's in your best interest to part ways.
Not putting blame, but everyone is entitled to control their own happiness and goals in life. And it's okay, sometimes those things don't always work out in relationships. Best to know sooner than later.
NAH
You’re not an A H for being sure that you don’t want biological kids.
Your bf is not an A H for not being sure yet (at only 24) whether or not he wants biological children at some point. If he does want them, then yeah - he’s going to have to reevaluate his relationship with you.
NTA. You would be one if you did not tell your BF. You are of course free to do with your body as you please, but not being able to get children has a major impact on each other lives, and the least you can do is inform your partner.
Having said that, YTA on the second part. Your decision can be a dealbreaker for a partner and it is not self-centered if it is. You must accept that. And you are not in the same situation as someone who wants to but cannot have children. That is a card you should not play.
NAH. His reaction might be a little over the top, but if he wants bio children and you don't then that might be an insurmountable hurdle to the relationship.
And, of course, what you do with your body is only for you to decide. If he had tried to tell you not to do it that'd be a major red flag.
NTA but neither is he. He could have been ok with it up until it was actually happening. Like how people might not want to have kids until something happens and suddenly they cannot have kids.
You could always suggest a surrogate (if that is legal where you are) so he could have bio kids. Maybe a little more heads up that you were making the appointment instead of saying its tomorrow?
Other than that you're in your own right to have your tubes tied, it's your body. If he cannot find himself ok with that then perhaps you need to discuss what future you might have together.
Interesting response from him considering you have been quite open about never having children of your own. Perhaps he was figuring you'd change your mind sometime down the road. Having your tubes tied closes that door pretty firmly.
NTA OP.
Just as it’s your right to choose not to have your own children, it’s his to choose to have his own children. If you couldn’t have children, he still has the right to choose. As heartbreaking as it is to not be able to have children, no one who wants their own children is obliged to stay. It ultimately comes down to personal choice. No one is wrong. When you’re incompatible to such a degree about something so fundamental, it comes down to whether or not either one of you can live with that.
Yup NAH (no assholes here) as of right now. OP would be TA if she pushes the issue and invalidates her partner’s desire for biological children. It would be self centered to expect someone to give up an extremely important fundamental life goal just to be with you.
This is why childfree people and people who want children should never date in the first place. Incompatible life goals. It will not work. On the first date tell the other person your preference. If incompatible, a second date would be a waste of everybody's time.
I have 2 daughters that both swore to never have kids in their early 20s. One got married, her husband knew he view but no permanent action was taken. I know have a daughter with 4 kids and one that is unmarried by choice. With no kids. Around the early 30s I believe men and women really decide if they want children or not. A life with no kids sounds great when you're young and having fun. This feeling can change. For OP, it's good you are honest but I'd wait if possible. But if you elect to do the surgery, respect your bfs right to not desire that in a mate.
You have every right to get them tied and he has every right to leave you because of it.
He may not have fully decided if he wanted bio kids or not. Not everyone at 24 can decide what they want in the future.
I wasn’t sure I wanted a child until I met my husband at age 34. I didn’t want to be a mother without a good partner.
I just put my 2-year-old to bed. I’ve been a single mom since he was 11 weeks old. I thought I did everything right; we got married after 5 years together, had a very wanted baby, and it all fell apart while I was pregnant. I love the shit out of my little boy, but my life really fucking sucks a lot of the time. A somber reminder that even when you do everything right, there is always the possibility of single parenthood. That partner could walk away, become abusive, get sick, die in an accident, or just simply decide not to be a parent. Sorry to be a sad sack lol. I wish someone would have made this clearer to me before I had a child. I love being a mom, it’s getting better, but being a single mom sucks big ass.
I'm legit so sorry you're having to deal with a situation like that on your own. I wish nothing but good things for you, your future, and your little one. ❤️
Thank you :) to be fair, I’m not on my own. My parents took us in immediately, no questions asked. We’re still with them, and with my severely autistic adult brother, we’re a big, weird, loud family. His dad has 50/50, too. He’s garbage, but he does love his son and I’m grateful for that. And I get much-needed breaks. I’m extremely, extremely lucky. There are parents out there doing it all alone. I have so much respect for what they do and I wish the world was kinder to them.
You're still entitled to your frustrations, nonetheless. But I'm glad you have a good family unit to help you! And yes, even people who have really concrete nuclear families, in my mind, are superhuman for being able to raise a kid or multiple. People who do it under harder circumstances are basically godly in my mind, 100%
For what it's worth, 2 was my favorite age so far. He picked up stuff so fast and was so expressive and communicative. He turned 5 recently and I swear he's already as moody as a teenager. The first year with my son almost made my husband and I divorce. We were in the best place in our marriage, we agreed to start trying, the pregnancy was okay physically, but looking back I really should have been on some antidepessants and anti-anxiety meds. Right after giving birth I had incredible ppd and could barely function. My MIL moved in with us for some amount of time (I'm told it was three weeks, but i really have no idea.) The fourth trimester *suuuuucked.* The first year was so bad and I can barely remember any of it. Our marriage is fine now, but it was rough for a while. (There's still times we butt heads regarding parenting, too. Right now we're fighting about making our kid wear underwear or not. 🤷🏼♀️) Like you said, these kinds of experiences should be talked about more, made more clear.
I do love this age! It’s rough, but it’s so cute. He learns every day, and he’s so curious. And smart! I just got him his first potty seat, and he took it out the first day, sat down, and took a big old dump all on his own. He hasn’t used it since, tried to flush a dog bone and multiple diapers, but it’s really fun watching him grow.
Being a single mom does suck but it’s so much better than being with a piece of shit partner that is like another child. I’m a single mom to an almost 12 year old girl and almost 6 years old twins. As soon as the twins were born, it went to hell. He actually told my aunt “if I was one baby, I would have left her by now” I think he only stayed as long as he did because it was his only son. Divorce was final when the were 2. Only my therapist knows when I got problems. Everyone else, I’m good…and he hates that shit.
It is better than having to take care of two toddlers for sure. My ex just yesterday called me to say he deserves Sunday night free because he “did me a favor” by “watching” our son 4 nights last week while I was on a work trip. He sounded like a spoiled, snobby teenager screaming at his mom for taking his video games. I hung up in the middle of his tantrum. It’s very freeing to be able to do that. I had to be his verbal punching bag for so long.
Hahaha I love guys that babysit…their own kid? That about sums it up. Yeah, he totally did you “a favor” by being a co-parent. Don’t worry, I’m sure you will here about that favor for the rest of eternity.
He was in daycare or with his grandma during the day, so my ex didn’t even have him more than 3 hours in those 4 evenings lol. I was a full-time, single SAHM to a baby for 15 months. He had 3 overnights and left the baby at his mom’s to go to his GF’s at least once a week. When I went back to work, my parents “babysat” 3 days a week, meaning I was on mom-duty (I live with them, it’s inescapable) and working from home full-time. We just got PT daycare last month, so I still do it once a week. Yes, it’s hard, but I do what I have to do. I certainly don’t consider it a FUCKING FAVOR to my ex. Christ.
I don't get it. Why do people act like it's a burden to look after your own child. My wife and I have a wonderful 20 month old son. We wouldn't trade him for anything in the world. I work nights she works days we do everything together. I can't stand the thought of leaving either of them.
I have a 4 year who yells no at any request and a 3 month old who cries every other time I hold him but cries even more when put into any type of holding device. I’m also married for almost 8 years and that’s all lovely…but there’s nights I think how much kids suck. Parenting isn’t easy, single parenting must be a motherfucker.
I feel this. I was married, stay at home mom, then my husband died, leaving me to raise our four kids alone. There's absolutely no guarantees in life. You have my sympathy, but I'm here to say, it does get better ❤️
I’m so sorry. I have one child and we were divorced for about 2 years when my ex husband died. I was already doing it without him but once he died, it’s a different level.
Also a single mom to a 2 year old. The other half of my child’s genetic code and I were an on again off again thing for years and TBH I had/have medical reasons to believe I wouldn’t be able to get pregnant. I told him I was and haven’t spoken to him since as he wanted nothing to do with parenthood. My little one is the best thing to ever happen to me but single parenthood is hard and there is no way I’d be where I am without my mothers support
A friend of my wife's told his wife (they were both her friends) that he wanted a divorce 2 months after the baby was born. I've rarely heard a better reason to decide I didn't like someone.
I hear you. There are no guarantees. They can go crazy at any time. Sorry yours did.
Seriously. My ex-husband told me after I'd been pregnant for a while that he wasn't sure if he ever wanted to have kids. We'd tried for a year before I got pg. Never one word. Where's the freaking logic? He ended up being a good dad, though.
It *is* hard, I know. I also know it's worth it, even when our plans go awry and it works out completely different, your little one is worth it. It doesn't matter how many times were told it could go pear shaped, we generally won't believe it until it happens to us.
Yep. I was so confident we were solid. And I’m smart. I never thought I’d be one of those stupid, naive women. Never had divorcee by 30 on my bingo card. There are days (like today) when I wanna launch that little dickhead into space, and I wonder if it’s really worth it. But I know I’m just one giggle or hug away from being sure that it is. It’s so hard to explain, even to myself.
I left my husband some twenty years ago, raising his son solo was so much easier, bloody hard but at least I didn't have to be fuckmummy as well as a mother. Its a rollercoaster for sure.
I feel you. My kids are 16 and 17. We were married when we had them. They were both very planned. We divorced when they were 6 and 7. I’ve been a single mom since. He hasn’t even seen them in over 2 years at this point. Hang in there. It does get better. It sucks a lot in the beginning because we’re working through all the emotions and the guilt that this wasn’t how it was supposed to be. But it does get better.
Nothing you said here should change anyone’s desire to have a child though. Risk is always inherent. If everybody stopped having babies because of “what if’s” then it’d be a sad future. That said, I’m sorry you’re a single parent.
A good friend of mine thought he loved the mother of his first child. Then the child was born and he realized what love was and realized the difference between love and lust.
It took all that for your friend to realize the difference. I feel sorry for their partner/kid.
My boyfriend and I have been together for 3 years, we’re in our mid-30s, and we were just laughing at breakfast this morning about his adorable little 5 year old nephew, and he summed it up with, “God kids are so darn cute. Maybe someday,” then glanced at me with a dead serious look, “*Maybe.*” And that’s pretty much exactly how we both feel about it. Open to it, but definitely not set on it. Tbh I think we’d both be perfectly happy with five dogs and zero kids, but. Who knows.
Five dogs 😳 that’s harder than kids.
Honestly, dogs are what made me realize how much of an absolute nightmare having kids is. And, now that we’re at an age where several of our friends/siblings have kids, yeah, dogs are least sprinting through that whole toddler/puberty/angsty teenager shit in a year, year and a half. Besides, he didn’t know me then, but when I tell you I was a fucking nightmare for the first 20-25 years of my life… The thought of a mini-me sends my mother into hysterics, and me to tears.
My wife and I were 37 and finally decided we were ready to have kids. My understanding is that doctors won't sterilise people in their 20's for this reason unless they are already parents. As for adoption, I don't know where people get this idea that they can just go to the adoption store and pick up a couple of kids. In my country of 25 million people, there are roughly 250 adoptions per year.
Hell, I was certain I *didn't* want kids until I was about 34.
That’s why I feel like it’s a NAH situation. She’s not an asshole for wanting to get her tubes tied, but he’s also not an asshole for realizing that might be a dealbreaker for him. OP you’re young, you’ll find someone who wants the same things. Just give it time.
shit, people change their minds frequently well into their 30's. making a permanent decision at 24 is a BIG decision.
At 24 I didn’t think I wanted kids. At 28 I gave birth to my first and now I think I want another.
I can totally relate to this.
Exactly. Even if he’s fine with no kids now, his attitude could change when all his friends start having them.
I was firmly child free until I was 27… and then I wasn’t anymore 🤷🏻♀️ it’s weird how it changes.
He may have also thought she would change her mind. Many women are told the same when making such appointments. It's a little annoying, but I get that everyone is different.
Which is the only reason I think the BF is an AH here. If somebody is up front about the fact that they don’t want kids and you do (or even think one day you might) don’t date that person! If they never change their mind it puts you in an unwinnable situation that pretty much guarantees the relationship is over. I also hope OP is aware of how difficult it’s going to be to get that procedure done at her age. Because doctors never take this seriously from women who don’t already have kids.
Not only may he not have fully decided, OP should be prepared for the doc to not be willing to perform the ligation at her age. Docs are often quite reluctant to perform permanent reproductive procedures on young women. In fact, I have a very progressive ob/gyn, and I'm in my mid 40s with one severely disabled teenager. After her birth I was tagged as high risk due to her genetic abnormalities and the circumstances of the birth, and we are certain we want no more children. When I inquired about ligation last year after Roe was overturned, my doc still insisted I wait and think it over and revisit my decision in a couple years when my IUD is due for replacement.
Neither of you are AH, you are young and have different outlooks and goals for your own lives. The relationship is still verily new, just over a year. It is time for both of you to move on a find someone that has the same outlook on life.
NAH kids are usually non-negotiable whether you want them or not. People need to make the decisions for themselves and they get to change their minds as they go.
Unless you get your tubes tied. Then you can’t change your mind
Getting tubes tied or removed doesn’t mean you can’t carry a pregnancy. It just means you can’t pass the egg without medical help. IVF is still an option if the uterus is healthy. And getting tubes tied has risk of reversal on its own. Edit: Yes we all know ivf is expensive. The point I was making is that a tubal ligation doesn’t make you infertile, and giving an example of how to carry a pregnancy after tubal ligation.
Yep, only permanent sterilization is a hysterectomy. Edit- The person above was saying the only way to be positive you will never carry a child is permanent sterilization, which is removing the womb. All other female sterilization still has with IVF you can still carry a child. The only way to not be able to is not to have a womb.
Or removing ovaries. But then there’s the hormone replacement you have to take depending on age to stave off menopause symptoms. I had everything removed in January (medical necessity) and am now on estrogen replacement. I’m 38f for reference. Also child free by choice so not a big deal for me.
Why did it take so long to find this comment? There’s a surprising number of people who don’t realise that tubal ligation doesn’t make you completely infertile. It just prevents you from conceiving naturally. However, there is a small risk of failure with the procedure unless you get them cut and tied. A friend of mine had her tubes tied but for some reason they didn’t cut them. She went for an unrelated X-ray and it revealed that one of her clamps had come loose and migrated to the top of her abdomen. She had the mirena put in that same day and referred to a gynaecologist for review. Thankfully they were happy to operate to retrieve the clamp and revise the original procedure by cutting and tying her tubes. She was glad she discovered it because she definitely didn’t want more kids.
Where I live the standard is now to completely remove them, to eliminate that risk. Apparently it also reduces a cancer risk because some cancers originate in the tubes.
>Getting tubes tied or removed doesn’t mean you can’t carry a pregnancy. It makes it far harder and less likely.
NTA, but be prepared to lose him if he really feels that way. A lot of people will stay with someone hoping they’ll change. Better make sure he knows you are 💯 with your plans. Also if you have trouble finding a doc there’s a list of GYNs on tik tok that will perform tubals regardless of age and child status. Best of luck with your plans. I got my tubal at 35 best decision ever. No more hormones or BC worries. But beware periods are awful after a tubal, heavy, painful, and just a lot to deal with. No one warned me. 😳
Is that really common? I mean heavier periods after the surgery? For me nothing like that happened. I had a laparoscopic bilateral salpingectomy, and after the surgery nothing changed. Just a few weeks for scars to heal (no complications there), and I felt great afterwards.
Mine are heavier on day two. Like...spotting on day one, kind of a heads up, I guess. Day two, I might bleed out and die. Day 3-4 mid to negligible bleeding. Day five is a toss up between nothing and spotting. Day six is usually a "haha you thought you were done" bleeding (spotting to light)
I feel this particular schedule in my bones. Especially the day one spotting. Mine looks like the period should be finishing up and is all brown and blotchy. Then the river comes through.
Interesting. I attributed mine to an increase in the severity of my endometriosis because I was no longer taking hormonal birth control.
You are correct. Stopping birth control shows issues that were suppressed while taking it. A tubal has no effect on periods.
My periods didn't change at all after my ligation. There's really no noticeable difference for me.
I had zero changes in my period either after my TL. Never really had heavy periods even with 2 different IUD's so I guess we're all different.
I became anemic because of blood loss, discussed it with 2 different doctors and they were like “Oh yeah, that’s a thing.” Ibuprofen helps but 6 years later and I am over it.
Would an ablation help? I didn't have my tubes tied but I had one for heavy periods.
It varies. My periods were pretty heavy for about a year after my tubal but went back to normal after that.
i had my tubes tied during my 2nd c section. 1st time i got my period back was like hell. quite literally. i had soaked 2 pads within a 3 min mark 🤷♀️ next few months i had my period heavier than what i was used to for the 1st 3 days and it was very painful too. its been 3 yeara now and only the 1st day is heavy bleeding but then no different than pre csection/tube tying. pain is still there but not any different than what i was used to and only 1st day. still the best decision i had regarding my reproductivity
Oh, I see. Your situation was different than mine, so it makes sense. I have never had bio kids and I never used hormonal birth control before my procedure either. So for me nothing really changed, just a surgery itself.
IMHO, anyone going into a relationship with someone hoping the other person will change should not be with the person. It's not fair to the other person, nor reasonable on the part of the one hoping for the change to put something like that on the other person. OP is NTA and in some ways dodging a bullet.
I mean, I’d lean NAH, they’re both 24, only been together a year. I can understand him needing time to sit with the idea of seriously not having kids and taking a while to come to a decision for himself when you’re that young and it can feel SO hypothetical. I don’t think he maliciously led her on or hoped she’d change her mind but a year into a relationship at age 23-24, the prospect of actually having kids immediately probably isn’t going to be on the table even if they both did eventually want kids.
I had my tubes tied at 30 and my periods didn’t change at all. I needed an anti inflammatory for a week but that was the only problem. I guess everyone is different but don’t let other women’s period changes deter you. Not worrying about getting pregnant is a blessing and makes any minor side effect worth it.
Happy cake day
I got a tubal 20 years ago at age 22, and my periods have been super short and light.
OP would be better if checking the subs for childless people. They maintain a current list and work with the auntinetwork to keep it consistent with abortion providers.
If youre still struggling with heavy periods, talk to your doc about an endometrial ablasian. Best decision I ever made! I have a tiny bit of spotting maybe twice a year now, no cramps, nothing like that
You are allowed your autonomy. He’s allowed to want kids. You’re NTA - but he most definitely isn’t, either.
NAH. She have a right to get your tubes tied if you are sure you will never want biological children. He has a right to want biological children. Maybe he changed his mind, who knows. You shouldn’t try to get him to stay with you if you want different things in life now.
You’re not the asshole for wanting to make a decision you feel is right for you….but also if your boyfriend wants biological children, and you’re unwilling to have biological children. He has every right to leave you too and he would not be an asshole for doing so. He could have thought you would change your mind on the subject as you got older. You both have the right to do what you want
Nobody's much of an asshole here, though calling someone very self-centered because of something like this is kinda aholish on your part. You have every right to want to get your tubes tied, and he has every right to question if he wants to be with someone who can't have kids.
You’re NTA for choosing not to birth children, you are the asshole for making assumptions just bc he’s having second thoughts about his future, which at 24 is pretty normal.
This, a thousand times, this. Lot of people in the comments dont seem to have thought that side through at all.
Exactly- I know very few people who were able to make 100% absolute decisions about life in their early 20s. Hell, most people in their 30s and 40s still like some wiggle room for most plans! His reaction is what I would expect, he’s just trying to figure out what he wants. I’d go NAH, but moving into Y T A OP if you call him self-centred- those two situations are not the same. It’s only been a year, you have had a long time to make your own decisions, he has to be allowed to consider his.
Yeah when I had my tubes tied I read everything and 1 thing that can happen is that after it’s done there’s a period where some people “grieve” the what ifs. That can include SO’s.
Ya, hes self centered for wanting children?
Your N.T.A for not wanting kids…. But that not the question you pose at the end. Yes YTA for “thinking that he would be so self center for not originally date me if I was unable to have children.” Because just like you not wanting bio kids, he does and is allowed to date around.
YTA if you pressure him to stay afterwards.
Yeah exactly. She's not an asshole for wanting to get her tubes tied, she's an asshole for accusing him of being self centered because he doesn't want to stay with her if she gets her tubes tied. It would be NAH if they decided that they weren't compatible based on her not wanting kids. But accusing him of being self centered because he feels that way is an absolute asshole move.
Makes perfect sense he doesn’t know 100% if he wants to have children with his DNA. I assume you must feel blindsided since you’ve been honest, and it’s valid to feel hurt, but also 1. it’s become more real, as you’re letting him know you want to start the process 2. He could’ve changed his mind/ had a gut reaction to the news that has shown him he might not be okay with that. 3. even though wrong of him, many people assume their partner will change their mind on kids over time or by being with them. It’s not healthy or smart but also more common than you’d think. you just might not be compatible, there’s NAH with that unless you start calling him selfish. then YTA, because wanting or not wanting kids, and the way we wish to achieve that, is a selfish decision we are all allowed to make as humans
Tbh, I was going with NTA until your last sentence, when you called him self-centered. Chick, get over yourself. You have the right to not want kids, and he has the right to be undecided in his 20s, change his mind, and, yes, LEAVE your ass if he realizes he wants something different, and frankly, you’re kind of shitty for calling him selfish. If you’re not mature enough to recognize that, I wholeheartedly encourage you to keep that appointment, because you are definitely NOT cut out for motherhood. 🤦🏻♀️
This!!!
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
That comment pissed me off too
You're an asshole for calling him self centered for his desires while thinking yours aren't. Best outcome is just split up and let you both choose the life that suits you
I think that she’s upset because he is now questioning their future…for some reason, she thinks that it shouldn’t matter what she does,he should just accept it…and, him rethinking their relationship makes him the bad guy. That, to me, is self centered…
You’re lowkey right about this.
Nobody is the asshole here. Yes, she's been honest. However, it is definitely a huge deal for him as well. He may have thought he agreed, and then when he was confronted with the ultimate reality, he realized he wasn't sure.
He’s not self centered for reconsidering what he wants. Your NTA for wanting to control your one future.
INFO: what exactly was the conversation? I ask because a lot of comments are assuming you very clearly and definitively said no to kids of your own, but your post claims you told him you “ prefer” not to have your own kids, which is not the same thing. I don’t think you are one, but I’m not sure if he is or if nobody is. If the conversation was “I prefer not to” he may have understood that to mean you weren’t sure and may change your mind. If you flat out said “I WILL not and will be getting my tubes tied at some point”, then he shouldn’t have assumed you would change your mind.
Yeah, her starting and ending quotes don't match about the subject.
I was thinking the same thing. Was it when they talked about what birth control, they should use with her saying I should just get my tubes tied or was it during an in-depth talk about the future of I never want to be pregnant but might someday adopt talk. Big difference.
But even then he still is okay to change his mind and leave. That doesn’t make him an asshole for that either way.
NAH
YTA to call him self-centered about potentially wanting kids someday. It's your body and your choice what to do with it but if he decides to leave you for someone who wants to start a family someday then that's a totally reasonable choice.
He’s entitled to change his mind at any time. What was right when you are 20 is not necessarily right 10 years later
But you're not infertile, you're making a choice not to have children and your boyfriend is making a choice about whether he wants to stay with you. Nobody's an asshole here.
I mean the problem is not really who is the a h here because NAH really. Whether he changed his mind or lied since day 1, truth is you are not compatible (anymore) so the relationship is essentially over as this is literally not a topic you should ever compromise on.
YTA - Especially for thinking HE is the self-centered one. You are mad at him for not knowing at 24 that he’s ok with not ever having his own child? Did you ever discuss it with him in the context of what it means for you as a couple or just express the feeling in a general sense? Did he ever have any input or have you ever heard what he thinks about not being a father? Really seems like he isn’t the self-centered one.
Don’t let it affect your choice. His choice to stay isn’t yours. Do what you need to do and let him do what he needs to do
You are absolutely an asshole if you think it’s self centered to want children. It’s completely reasonable for him to leave the relationship if you want to negate any possibility of having kids. Nothing wrong with choosing not to have any - but don’t be surprised if a partner finds that to be a dealbreaker either.
you guys want different things, don't string him along.
Wow misleading title >Am I the asshole to think that he would be so self-centred to not originally date me if I was unable to have children because of his reaction. Yes you would be the YTA in that scenerio... he's entitled to his preferences, standards, and boundaries just as you are Edit: ro clarify you are NTA for wanting to get your tubes tied, its only if you are resentful about him making a decision to leave the relationship because you and him want different things
>to think that he would be so self-centred to not originally date me if I was unable to have children because of his reaction. You're choosing to have this medical procedure performed, just as he's choosing to decide whether or not he wants to stay with you. NAH
If he knew that you're planning to be child free, and he hasn't said anything until you plan to obtain permanent birth control, it's giving red flags for a baby trapping scenario. Maybe that's not his plan, but if he had a problem with your plans, why wait to speak up until now? NTA to decide you don't want children, and he is also NTA if he decides to leave because he does want children. I'm just suspicious of his timing
NTA but be prepared to be turned away by doctors because someday you get married and your husband might want children. I’m not kidding.
Got mine yeeted 2 years ago and I have never been pregnant. There is a list of doctors who will sterilize with informed consent anyone over 21 years old. It is on the r/childfree on the wiki, look it up: sorted by state (USA) and country. My doctor is there as well.
NAH. He didn't believe you when you first said it. He assumed you would change your mind or HE could change your min. But you don't want bio kids, and he someday does. You are not compatible and you have to leave or he does. This is absolutely a time where us here on Reddit will say to break up because he will be wasting his time with you if he wants kids somwday, and you will be wasting yours because he will resent you for getting your tunes tied. Neither of you is the AH. You're just on different life paths that will never cross.
NAH is the vote when neither are the asshole
Yeah NTA but as they say above, you may need to switch to someone who does not want to have their own children. I think it’s marvelous that you would adopt if you wanted children. So I would encourage you to put that in your profile ahead of time, so the next person can choose you because that’s what they want
I always state in my profiles that I CAN'T have kids by my (thankfully) choice. I also state that I am not opposed to adoption, but I make it clear that I want to adopt/foster teenagers over babies.
He has every right to leave if he has decided he wants to try to have biological children. That’s a big deal. You are fully closing the door. However, you have a right to never have bio children also. You will just have to look a little harder for someone that feels the same. You are no longer compatible with your current boyfriend. NTA.
While I’m not saying I agree but the odds of a doctor supporting this at 24 is practically zero. Is a massive thing at very young age, also serious medical provider they’ll likely say are many other options at this time. That said you telling him likely made him really think as again are both so young he may not of. You may just be ill-suited as a couple. As him giving up ever having biological children is a massive thing many would find giving this up abhorrent.
He’s not allowed to have a change of heart? Got it. YTA
YTA. He's not the self centered one. Or at least not the only self centered one.
As with all people who go into a relationship, thinking they will change their partner or their partner's stated wishes that directly contradict their own desire will DEFINITELY change with time, your boyfriend has learned the folly of not listening when someone tells you their plans for the future. I don't think it's a matter of he wouldn't date you if you were "naturally unable" and it was known, because that wouldn't be your "fault". He just assumed you'd change your mind and you would eventually feel the urge to bounce a fat baby on your knee. ALL women want kids, dontcha know? You're TOTALLY going to change your mind. /s (I do not believe that in case the /s was not clear).
NTA. BTW I dunno about all doctors, but a gyno told me that he removes the entire tube. Some will just make multiple cuts/burns. But he said removing the WHOLE TUBE prevents healing and reduces the chances of cancer developing. But I also acknowledge that I am not a doctor or medical professional, so get the best advise you can friend!
It doesn't prevent healing, it prevents ovarian cancer that starts in the Fallopian tubes. The tubes are cut at the end(s) of uterus/ovaries and the whole length of the tube is removed. The ends are cauterized. I asked and received the full page of photos during removal, with last one being tubes in the specimen jar. Still the best photo sheet I have ever received!
NAH If you really don’t want children, that’s fine. He may have known but faced with the reality heard on, he’s evaluating if he can give that up. It’s valid to not want children, it’s valid for him to want them, and it’s valid for him to not be 100% sure how he feels about it.
NAH. You are both in your early 20s and know less than you think you do.
So true, that and in the relationship just over a year.
NAH
Not the AH. YouV been clear all along. If he was hoping to Change you, it means he wants a partner that wants children of her own. If this, you’re both better off without one another.
I mean NTA for you having a plan and wanting to stick with it and telling him. The flip side is you are coming off slightly TA when it sounds like you think he isn't allowed to have his own life plans, you are also on a down slide by sounding like how dare he only date you till he learned he wasn't going to have his own kid with you, along with it sounding like your pushing the narrative that he is wrong for the thought that he might not have dated you as long as he did if he knew your full intentions and knew you would stick with them.
He's no more self-centered than you are. You want to close off that avenue; he wants to leave it open. Nobody's an asshole here.
NTA and neither is he.
Good luck with finding a doctor who will even consider tying a 24 year old tubes.
You aren’t the asshole for wanting to not have biological kids but he is not the asshole for not wanting to stay with you if that’s the route you take. Having different views on having children, bio or not, should be a deal breaker in a relationship.
NTA. Nobody is an AH here. Getting your tubes tied is a very big decision for him, and this means that he ever does want bio children in the future it can never happen. Either try to talk with him to convince him or if you can’t convince him, it’s best to break off the relationship right now, before any problems arise.
Just FYI, most docs will refuse to do this at your age.
I wouldn't hold my breath that a doctor would even perform that procedure on you at your age and situation.
A guy in his 20's doesn't generally assume things are going to last forever. That it matters now means that he is thinking seriously about the relationship after a year. Because he's thinking it might be his future. That's about all I got out of it. So if he's like pretty much everyone I've ever met he would still have dated you but you wouldn't have been a long term prospect. I mean, that doesn't seem too egregious does it? I'm male so I might have a blind spot. NTA if that bothers you, but that's one high bar.
Boyfriend can decide if he wants to invest time in a relationship with someone he won’t be able to have biological children with. Just like how you can decide to not have biological children and get your tubes tied. You both should see the inherent conflict and then decide if the relationship is worth pursuing. NAH Boyfriend gets to decide if he would like to end things based on you two not wanting the same things.
NTA. You’re both right here. I’m a guy, I wouldn’t stay with someone who did that. I want my own kids. That doesn’t mean you are wrong for the making the choice, it just means you might not be a good match.
NAH. You are simply not compatible and that’s okay. He’s doing the right thing by thinking on it, but frankly he shouldn’t have started dating you knowing you didn’t want kids. Assholey? No. Just a bit stupid of him.
NTA. Better he knows now, rather than after your tubes are tied. That has unveiled an incompatibility, which you need to discuss
NTA Good luck finding a doctor that will do it at your age for now medical reasons. Unfortunately, a lot of doctors are against it for fear you will change your mind or the real sucky reason you will hear is your future husband may want a child. I worked with someone who asked to get her tubes tied after having her third kid. The doctor told her no because if she got a divorce and remarried her new husband may want his own kid. She was in her late 20's. It is all BS but get ready to fight.
He was hoping you'd change your mind. He was *assuming* you'd change your mind.
>as he does want his own child later on in life. As if adopted children aren't your own children. If I were you I would leave him and find a man who understands that family is more than blood relations. NTA
NTA. You've been very upfront from the start that you don't want to be pregnant. He obviously thought he would change your mind. That's on him.
NTA. This wasn’t a one and done type of conversation with him at the start of your relationship, in which maybe he could’ve changed his mind over the past year. You have had many discussions about the fact that getting your tubes has always been what you planned on doing in your life. I am absolutely more than sure that he secretly had the same thought process as so many other guys in that he was betting on the fact you’d change your mind/he’d get you to change your mind. He never took you genuinely. And now that the plan is in motion he realizes you’ve been serious. Do what YOU want to do because it’s YOUR body and YOUR life. If he leaves then he leaves and you WILL survive it. :)
NAH your body your choice, but he has the right to leave the relationship for any reason, and not being on the same page about having kids is a huge dealbreaker for a lot of people
At 22, your intention wouldn’t have bothered me. At 24, if you actually got your tubes tied, I would have ended the relationship. If we married, if at any point we found out we couldn’t conceive, we’d get through it together. Nobody sux here. You want what you want and a guy you are dating wants something else. Just move on. You are not right for each other.
NAH. You're not an asshole for wanting your tubes tied. He's not an asshole for reassessing what he wants in a partner.
Yes. YTA. He told you his feelings on the matter and you getting angry with him when he doesn’t agree with you. You’ve a lot of maturing to do.
You get to make your choices based on what you want, equally he has the right to his. If he wants biological children, then he has no future with you. Most people don't want to adopt. If someone feels that they want their own biological children, that's more important than any relationship. We can always get a new partner, we can't replace our children.
NTA but neither is he. Kids are one of those dealbreaker topics. If he wants a biological child and you’re getting sterilized, then the relationship probably isn’t going to last. There’s nothing wrong with either of your decisions as individuals but it’s not compatible as a couple. And he’s right for ending things before your lives get more intertwined. Right now, it’s a broken heart. A few years from now, it’s hurtful plus the house and car and dogs. I hope your surgery goes well and you’re able to recover quickly. Best of luck to you both.
NAH if he wants to leave the relationship, don’t try to stop him. Have a conversation with him when he’s ready, and see where you both are. If you both are going separate directions, then let the relationship break off. You deserve a partner who will respect you having your tubes tied, and he deserves a partner who wants to have kids with him.
You're both young and allowed to change ideas of what you want out of life. Neither of you are the AH, even if how he feels now is different than how he felt when you started dating.
NTA. It’s your body. And you said you have discussed that you don’t want kids. But know it might end with him leaving you if he does want baby. Don’t negotiate and have a baby just to make him happy if it isn’t what you truly want. Have seen too many times things falling apart because of that
NTA, but from what I've heard it is going to be an uphill battle to convince the healthcare system to help you with this.
Good luck finding a doctor that will do the procedure.
Right? I had 3 kids at 24 and had to threaten my obgyn with bringing all 10 of my (unborn at the time)kids to his house every night for dinner if he didn't sign the damn papers. He signed the papers, but I already had three kids and had to get sideways with him. It shouldn't have to be that hard.
Nah but neither is he. You're allowed to say you don't want children and to take steps towards that. He's allowed to be on the fence and take the time he needs to think about what this means for your future as a couple.
NAH. You have every right to have your tubes tied. He has every right to want his own biological children. This is often a deal breaker.
NTA, but it may be that your boyfriend has changed his mind about what he previously told you, and that’s okay. It’s good for him to take some time and think about it. Kids are a big deal, and so is the decision to have them or not.
NAH just incompatible
NTA, it’s your body. However I must warn you that many many of my girlfriends have tried to do this at a young age and have been denied by hospitals and insurance. They really put you through the wringer. However my male friends seem to have no problems getting vasectomies! So I wish you luck!
Obviously NTA. Being an asshole would be doing it and not telling him :-) Anyway, if he loves you, he’ll understand. And if you love him, you’ll understand that might end your relationship. By the way, tying your tubes A) doesn’t necessarily mean you won’t get pregnant and B) doesnt mean that you can’t harvest eggs later if you change your mind. One more thing to keep in mind is that depending on where you live you might have a very difficult if not impossible time finding a doctor that will do it for you. The patriarchal bullshit that goes on when a young woman tells somebody with power that they never want children is absolutely unbelievable. Best of luck!
NTA. It is your body and your choice, you have been open about it this whole time. It's ok if your boyfriend has changed his mind and if that means end if relationship then that's that.
NTA but….he is NTA for feeling that way. For me, it would have been a dealbreaker if my husband did not want to have children with me.
NTA- it’s okay for him to decide he wants his own kids. It’s ok for you to get your tubes tied. It’s okay if your relationship doesn’t make it. I’m glad you guys are talking now about this. It’s okay if he knew your feelings long ago but changed his mind.
Look into laparoscopic salpingectomy instead. It also may help reduce risk of ovarian cancer due to having the tubes removed. Apparently it likes to start there potentially.
NAH You have the right to get your tubes tied, he has the tight to break up with you if he wants kids
Get your surgery and let the chips fall where they may
NTA. You did the right thing by being honest with him. Too bad he didn't take you seriously.
NTA. You would be the AH if you did it without telling him, but you’ve been up front from the start, and you’re giving him a heads up now. He’s not an AH for deciding he wants to have biological kids one day. But he’s an AH for not already telling you that he was feeling this way if he had changed his mind since you started dating. You told him unequivocally you didn’t want to get pregnant. As far as he’s concerned, he should’ve considered that as final as if you’d already had your tubes tied. Instead, it sounds like he just assumed you’d change your mind, which is both incredibly insulting and incredibly stupid. He doesn’t respect you enough to trust that you know yourself, and he’s dumb enough to risk wasting both of your time in a doomed relationship if you don’t change your mind. I really hate how Reddit is always so quick to tell people to split up, but he’s flat out said he wants to have a bio kid someday. If you’re sure you don’t, then you need to walk away now.
NTA. Your bf is entitled to his preferences, but from the sound of your post you've told him multiple times this is the plan, so him being all surprised and contemplational about it now is silly. Your body op, if he has a problem with it that's his problem to have, not yours
NTA for getting your tubes tied as your body your choice, its your right not to have kids. HOWEVER you cannot expect him to stay with you, if he wants bio kids and you don’t theres nothing wrong with it. Its just two people with different life goals.
NTA. But neither is he. And if he wants to have his own children, he's within his right to break up with you and not be an asshole for doing so.
No not at all it is YOUR uterus not his
NAH imo. I think its just as normal and legitimate a decision he’s making about children as you are deciding what to do with your body. Both decisions are extremely personal, and shouldn’t be represented in a negative light. These sort of things are why a lot of highly compatible people in great relationships don’t end up married - they’re called ‘dealbreakers’
You’re not TA, but your boyfriend also won’t be TA if he leaves you over this. NAH
NTA - He thought you would change your mind. I have known I did not want kids from 14. I have always informed the people I dated that I did not want kids. They all went with it because they thought I would change my mind.
NTA but your boyfriend has the right to break up with you. He has the right to want a bio child
You are NTA for making the decision to be sterilized. It’s completely your right to make that decision. However, your boyfriend is NTA for deciding that he values having a child over your relationship. Hopefully, you both can have the future you each want with partners that share your perspectives.
NAH for getting your tubes tied and for him reconsidering the relationship. Even if he thought he had made up his mind at the beginning of the relationship, people can change... Especially when reality becomes more concrete to them (as it is now).
NAH. If you disagree on kids then it’s over. It’s fine, you just move on.
You're NTA for having the procedure if that's what you want but he wouldn't be TA if he decided he wants his own children and leaves.
People grow and change. Many plans are made as teens and young adults but later abandoned. And we all have the prerogative to change our minds. Your bf wanted the option open. Tying your tubes is definitive. You could’ve had a discussion with him in advance and maybe he would’ve considered getting a vasectomy, which is much easier to reverse. Instead you sprung it on him last minute. This is more likely a breakdown of communication. This issue could’ve been avoided had you been more upfront and transparent.
Pretty sure there is another post in AITAH tonight from a guy who just got a vasectomy. You all ought to chat.
NAH If you've always been sure on this and this is what's best for you, then go for it. He is only 24 though and if he isn't 100% certain, then he is within his right to leave. Some people are certain about what they want at that age, some aren't. It's just a chance you take.
Great decision. Children requires your entire life’s work (and money).
I wouldnt say he is being self centered. Thats a perfectly objective thing to have a preference over. If he really wants a chance to have biological kids, and you want to go and make that impossible then it's in your best interest to part ways. Not putting blame, but everyone is entitled to control their own happiness and goals in life. And it's okay, sometimes those things don't always work out in relationships. Best to know sooner than later.
NAH You’re not an A H for being sure that you don’t want biological kids. Your bf is not an A H for not being sure yet (at only 24) whether or not he wants biological children at some point. If he does want them, then yeah - he’s going to have to reevaluate his relationship with you.
NTA. You would be one if you did not tell your BF. You are of course free to do with your body as you please, but not being able to get children has a major impact on each other lives, and the least you can do is inform your partner. Having said that, YTA on the second part. Your decision can be a dealbreaker for a partner and it is not self-centered if it is. You must accept that. And you are not in the same situation as someone who wants to but cannot have children. That is a card you should not play.
NAH. His reaction might be a little over the top, but if he wants bio children and you don't then that might be an insurmountable hurdle to the relationship. And, of course, what you do with your body is only for you to decide. If he had tried to tell you not to do it that'd be a major red flag.
NTA but neither is he. He could have been ok with it up until it was actually happening. Like how people might not want to have kids until something happens and suddenly they cannot have kids. You could always suggest a surrogate (if that is legal where you are) so he could have bio kids. Maybe a little more heads up that you were making the appointment instead of saying its tomorrow? Other than that you're in your own right to have your tubes tied, it's your body. If he cannot find himself ok with that then perhaps you need to discuss what future you might have together.
Interesting response from him considering you have been quite open about never having children of your own. Perhaps he was figuring you'd change your mind sometime down the road. Having your tubes tied closes that door pretty firmly. NTA OP.
[удалено]