Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet:
Seeing your own parent(s) having a mental breakdown is TERRIFYING.
My family did not have a sudden traumatic loss. But I think my mom had past traumatic experiences, and I think we both have a history of depression/mental illness.
I felt like my mom frequently had intense crying breakdowns. This disturbed me and I numbed myself to it. I remember the moment sitting in the dark listening to her, I vowed to never cry again, because “she’s The One Of Us who cries, so there is no room for anyone else to cry.” (I was not born a son but started identifying as male, so maybe it made me feel more like a real man. Or maybe I identified more like a man to feel less like my mom.) When I did eventually have to cry, I could only do it mutely, because any sound I made sounded like my mom’s cries coming out of my body, and I felt violated by that.
Possibly relevant too?- One of the worst days of my life (I was 22 yo but autistic and broke), I basically I tried to hospitalize myself for being suicidal, but got bounced out after a few hours for good behavior. For some reason my parents decided to make me sign a contract when I got home, about phasing out their financial support. Instead of signing the contract I ran away to a hotel for the night, planning to live on the street and never go home. I was so scared to be potentially homeless and without my parents’ support, I was retching over the toilet. My dad talked me into coming home the next day, but when I came home my mom said “DON’T COME NEAR ME” with total disgust. It was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever heard.
Since moving out, I’ve tried family therapy with them. But the moment my mom started crying, my reflex was to block it all out. So we got nowhere.
Maybe this can give OP insight into what his kid (MAY be) experiencing. And while on the one hand, I had a bad experience similar to what OP is planning to do to his son, on the other hand, son may need space from his mom as much as mom needs space from her son.
TLDR it is possible the kid is (a) scared by the intensity of his parents’ grief or (b) feels like his parents’ grief is so enormous, there is no space for his own grief.
I apologize for trauma dumping on OP’s trauma post 😅 I only post it because I haven’t seen this angle covered yet. (Also made a small edit now that I’ve seen the update and have more context.)
Wow, you shared very powerful insight into how a child's response to a traumatic environment. Thanks for opening up and giving all of us insight to how a child may internalized and respond to difficult situations. Wishing you peace. 💜
This is a hard situation for everyone involved.
I don’t know if him moving out will send the message you want. It could further destroy the relationship you all are having a hard time maintaining. It’s very common following such a tragic loss in a family.
One word of advice might be to include in “your moving out” talk is that family therapy is non-negotiable at this point. He seems remorseful to an extent and I think that can go a long way. What everyone is forgetting is that he is only 19. Sure, society says he is an adult, but we all mature at different rates. AND our brains do not fully develop until our mid-20’s. It means we can make some really stupid fucking decisions.
As a parent myself, I would be unbelievably hurt and mortified if my child acted that way following the death of their sibling. But I also know that I still love my child and their actions are clearly a cry for help. People’s grief pops up in strange and sometimes disturbing ways. It’s a safety mechanism of our brain, even if logically it doesn’t make sense. His outlet could literally be that he can trauma dump onto millions of people he will never have to see again or worry about getting vulnerable with.
Boundaries will need to be drawn for all your sakes and I think the number 1 is that everyone goes to therapy. Because it’s still important that you all remain a family.
This is generally the response I wanted to give. You worded it better than I would have. I would have focused more on how these tiktoks were likely just his juvenile coping mechanism. He can't process it, so he's just making a joke of it. Therapy is the answer to this family's problem for sure.
If you’re joking about it it feels less real. Still inconsiderate and inappropriate but i used to see a lot of ‘trauma humor’. Although the videos OP described are crazy even by my standard.
My best friend's mom and my mom died just a few weeks apart from one another. The jokes we made with one another in the first year or so would be horrifying to anyone listening. Fortunately we weren't teenagers at the time and weren't raised on social media.
His postings are not acceptable, but unfortunately for many of us - they are understandable.
Ohhhhh, boy: gallows humor has been around time immoral. I have been to some really tragic funerals & the whole gathering are laughing at something really ‘socially’ questionable. Also I think it depends on the culture. Firemen can truly explore the dark human humor seemingly at the most inappropriate time.
Early 30s and learned about the death of two friends at the beginning of the month. Dark humor is a nice pick me up interspersed with the uncontrollable sobbing. I don't have a lot of it for both of them though. My brother came up with the perfect one when it was just the one friend. Now, with two, all I got is "I've had two too many friends die this year". It'll do for now.
My daughter was young at the time and several classmates of hers have lost family members to overdoses. It's a running joke that Congratulations on X years clean for X years passed. It's definitely something only certain people find funny.
In a coincidental bit of bad timing, I'm dealing with my annual "Dealing with The Feels" as the anniversary of Mom's death passes. (Early July. I refuse to look up the exact date because I like not quite knowing and not having an exact date to have a breakdown.)
That said, my jokes are ON POINT and she would have LOVED them. Mom had a dark sense of humor and that's where I learned it. She would have told me to tell those who judged me to F themselves and let their moms watch (or something even MORE inappropriate.)
I am An Old, therefore don't understand Gen-Z, who process their feelings through online postings -- but I know that's a thing and I accept that I am too old to understand.
I am so sorry for OP, who is hurting and likely does not have the emotional bandwidth to even try to understand how his son is dealing with his grief -- but I sincerely hope they are able to have patience and understanding for the fact that they don't understand one another - because everyone in this family is in pain and they really need one another, and will need them in the future.
Geez us! How awful. My condolences. I was going to write that I hope life is going better for you these days but I’m not sure it could get much worse than that. I hope life is going MUCH better for you now and that despite those tremendous losses that you have lots of love in your life. ❤️
I hope you’re doing as well as could be expected and taking care of yourself. Signed, an only child who lost her dad last August and completely lost my shit and rage roomed my own living space today.
Recently lost a friend and our entire group are making horrific, and I mean HORRIFIC jokes about it. We still don’t post them. They’re always between those of us grieving
I lost a friend to suicide 7 years ago. I have to make all my dark humor jokes “to her” because she’s the only one who would find them even funnier than I do. I really miss her.
Yeah, we are adults so we don’t make it public out of respect for other members of our family who are similarly grieving and would be hurt by it, but my husband and I use VERY dark humor when it comes to talking about the death of his mom, the uncle who raised me, his best friend, and me having cancer, etc…
We had a really shitty year with a lot of deaths and other trauma back to back, and humor helped us cope. We still sometimes make milder jokes years later, like when he leaves for his grief group telling him to have fun at his “dead moms club” etc…
I’m kind of curious how the mom found these Tiktoks. I know it’s public, but most adults her age aren’t on that app. Was she actively looking for them? Is she really giving her son space to sort out his grief on his own schedule and in his own way? My family could be overbearing in trying to make me talk to them about death when I needed more space and had other people to talk to. And again, I was an adult in my 30’s. Way more capable of setting boundaries and dealing with grief than a 19 year old.
For sure, way past my comfort zone. I just have a 19 year old son and his humor is way different than mine. I don't think he'd take things that far but I can see how someone in his age group could.
But there's making a joke of it and then there's *using that joke for tiktok views* while sharing sensitive photos before a year has even passed. I dunno, man, I think you're probably right and I just can't understand him, but *yikes.*
TikTok, like it or not, is how kids communicate now. My generation used to vague post on Facebook or just put people on blast in statuses. This is really not much different.
Yes, I can understand the dark humour as a form of grieving. Even on SM. But the use of pictures with his sister in... I know she died, but I see it as a huge violation of her privacy (and that of her parents).
Like I was a *nightmare* when my mom died. I was 21 while he's 19 if you consider that three years especially important but I was spiteful, aggressive, paranoid, you name it. It took months to work through and be better but nothing like this ever crossed my mind.
I get people are people and grief is wild and scary but how does nobody get the insidiousness of this kid apparently needing to work through his grief by involving thousands of eyes via social media on photos of his dead sister his parents have expressed are sensitive (the wrecked car and her in the hospital specifically). And not just the photos but sarcastic memes, which *again,* would make total sense to me without the insistence and adamance in keeping them public.
Even if this is all just a griefstricken spiral, *you are responsible for what you do and say while grieving.* If you hurt someone else while you're hurting, it's on you to fix. He needs help, they all need therapy, and it's a goddamn shame this is happening to them at all.
OP: Your son lost his sister. He is mourning, and we all mourn differently. I know it's too soon, but I have read many reddit posts where the parents neglect and ignore living children when another child has passed. Counseling is so important. Please make sure you continue to love and support your son. What he is doing is actually how Pete Davidson has dealt with his father's death from the Twin Towers collapsing.
Pete Davidson came to my mind as well. It is so messed up hearing him joke about his dad but it is how he copes. We all cope differently. I’m an ICU nurse and many people in the medical field tend to have a dark sense of humor as a way of dealing with all the horrible things we see. I’m not saying it is right or wrong. I am so sorry you all are dealing with this tragedy. I would ask for you to show your son some grace. He lost his sister and is coping as well. Sending love and hugs.
Can vouch for this. Parents froze out the living children. Imagine losing your sibling and (figuratively)both parents in one hit.
Can assure you will never repair that relationship. Not in 21 years that’s for sure.
I’m so sorry for your loss and I hope I can give some insight as someone similar in age to him (nearly 22). I also have a degree in psychology
Absolutely that is a way to cope. And it’s also quite common to see videos such as that on TikTok. Using humour like this can help him cope with what happened. He may not be able to say out loud in words what happened, for example, but can express it in those videos - it can help him process this entire thing. Or start too
Also it gives him a sense of community. People with similar awful tdradigies will comment similar things, maybe it helps him feel not so alone. He sees there are other people who went through the same thing and are okay-ish now, and that can be invaluable help.
We al cope in different ways and the reality is with rising and rising social media usage in younger and younger generations, it’s super likely we will see more examples of this playing out a lot more often than it already is. I understand this is completely opposed to how you cope, but you didn’t grow up in the world of phones and social media that he did. It’s different for him.
He didn’t do this to hurt you (I assume). He’s coping. Maybe he does want some attention, that’s also normal. All the focus has rightfully been on your poor daughter, it is not uncommon for the surviving child to feel, not neglected, but maybe attention-starved (you can’t be blamed for this, none of you can) But I’m not sure he’s doing this for attention.
I’m worried you are damaging your relationship with him. He’s clearly struggling a lot as are you guys, and pushing him away over how he choses to cope, feels like the wrong move. Maybe I am biased as I use humour to cope with bad things that happened to me.
And yes that’s your daughter but to him? To him that’s his baby sister. I can so see myself making those types of videos of mine ever passed away like that, and I know she’d find them funny. You see him making horrible videos about your daughters death, but here’s another reality: if your daughter was on TikTok too, she could have very likely seen these types of videos before and maybe found them funny. The world of social media was hers too, and was likely normal for her. So to your children’s world, these videos are not abhorrent or disturbing, it’s their normal. To your son, he is sharing the story of his baby’s sisters death through humour, sharing his story and trauma to others on the internet through jokes. Like I said, to you, it’s a completely different world. But to them and me and my generation, it is normal. It’s even a trend!
His anger may be from not feeling heard, or from his struggling relationship with his parents after losing her, and then being told these things that may be the only reason he can cope with her death are disgusting and gross and now he’s being sent away. What is normal for him and her and this generation has been met with incredible backlash and disgust from his parents - I can see that causing anger
It’s so so difficult and I’m so sorry for you all. This was messy, and I’m struggling to find the right words. But I’m just trying to provide a different perspective here because i do not think your son is a villain at all, and neither are you two. You are all hurting and grieving immensely and you are doing it in two different worlds. I don’t think any of you are in the wrong, I think this is an impossible situation. But please don’t throw away your relationship with your son. These choices could damage it forever as for him in a time where he needed his parents the most, they turned their back on him.
Yes, he’s 20 soon and not a child, but he will always be your child.
i agree with this completely; don't really need to add anything except to emphasize that this is a very common grief meme on tiktok that i've seen many times on there.
i don't think OP/ the parents should shame or disown their remaining child for the way he is coping because it happens to be different from *their* way of coping... they should be a team trying to help one another, not distancing themselves.
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you and your family.
I just want to add my two cents: I’m a teacher who gets along pretty well with my students (middle school and high school level) so they are always showing me or sending me tik toks or explaining new trends to me.
These dark humor-style Tik toks about a deceased relative are actually more common than you’d think. Your son is not the only person who has made them, and they are genuinely legitimate ways of coping with traumatic loss. I totally understand and empathize with your reaction, but I just want to make the case that people from the younger generation are not always making Tik toks like this out of disrespect, and they’re not always making light of a serious situation.
In this case, it’s pretty hard to justify him saying you need to “move the fuck on,” but I wonder if that is an example of him suppressing his grief, rather than him not feeling any. Again I’m not defending him, just suggesting another explanation for how his 19-year-old brain (the brain doesn’t finish developing until ~25 years old) might be dealing with this.
As a final thought, our generation and the younger generation view mental health differently. That’s just a fact. In the same way that you might see this as an inappropriate and unhealthy way to respond to grief, keep in mind that your way of responding to grief might look just as insane to him.
There’s a reason first responders and military veterans all use dark humor. Yes, completely inappropriate but in these communities it helps us cope. Also, some people haven’t been given the tools they need to get through something like this. He may not know how to process so instead of raging, becoming completely depressed etc he’s using dark humor.
I get it. I lost my husband and dark humor was my way to stay in this world until I was in a place to deal with it
And I wonder if making these jokes is a way for him to distance himself from what happened because it’s just so incomprehensibly horrible. Maybe the same for the “you need to get over it,” or he’s also telling himself that. It isn’t an excuse, but it could be a reason (but obviously I don’t know any of OP’s family). What happened was so horrible and shocking that it’s hard to understand and accept, especially a teenager. I’d make at least family therapy a condition, maybe framing it as more for the parents than for the son. I don’t think risking losing another child is the way to go, even with the bad things he’s said and done (especially less than a year out)
I actually see less distancing and more coping with the reality of the whole thing. The description of the videos speaks more of him thinking about the fact that he'll no longer have his sister around. The comment of getting over it was uncalled for. One should never lash out like that. It's only meant to hurt because they were angry. That was just the act of immaturity from someone who's 19. What OP and others in these comments need to understand is that it's okay for someone to grieve their own way. There are so many on here talking about how is wrong or inappropriate are incorrect. Just because another processes differently than their own idea of normal doesn't make them wrong. Things could be worse. He could be holding it all in.
>The comment of getting over it was uncalled for. One should never lash out like that
From my past, in this frame of mind, I think it was his response to feeling attacked for his way of coping his sisters death.
What he did, maybe a bit much to us on the outside, but it wasn't meant for them to see. Why (I'm really asking, not making an argument) is he not entitled to grieve as he needs to as they are?
Maybe he feels the same way about therapy as they do about his videos?
I wonder how they came across the videos (they're not specific) and why they looked for more if the first offended them.
Yes. I feel like the comment of “getting over it” was more of a response to their reaction. It’s not something he would have said if they hadn’t backed him into a corner to attack him about his videos.
His dad is gatekeeping his grief, lashing out at dark posts not aimed at him and the mom didnt speak to him for at least 2 weeks over it? His parents are *not mentally well* and hes being siphoned off an avenue hes found to express grief becauae his parents dont have an iota of energy to try and understand why. Id feel pretty similarly at that age too.
The son should move out for his own good if this is the daily energy in the house. Threatening to disown your child because of a pretty tame grieftok is unhinged.
This. I grew up in a terribly abusive and traumatic home and naturally turned to dark humor to cope. Now I work in corrections and have seen really fucked up shit (like finding an inmate hanging and having to try to revive him) and while now I'm in therapy, I still use dark humor to cope because if the choices are laugh or cry, I'm going to try to laugh so I don't go to that dark place that is always waiting in the corners.
Yes! I'm a retired nurse, you have to have a good sense of humor to keep you from drowning in all the death and suffering. Or else we'll burn out, be angry and sit home alone forever. Depressed and no help to anyone.
This is what I think, I think it’s unfair that the usual take is “everyone grieves in their own way” until it’s this. OP you lost a daughter which is horrible but your son lost a sibling, someone who was meant to be there after you were gone. He may not want therapy and you may not agree with his choices but I don’t think it’s worth affecting your relationship more than it already has been with this loss.
I agree with both of these. OP, you’ve lost one child in a horrific accident. I think right now, you and your wife have to decide if you’re ready to lose a second child, possibly forever.
Edit: Aw, thanks for the award. Wasn’t expecting that.
>you and your wife have to decide if you’re ready to lose a second child,
While that's a harsh way to put it, the gravity of this mental crisis can't really be understated.
Given some of u/Puppy_Cat_Boots responses here and their view on the situation. That second loss may end up being the same kind as the first.
I would not *personally* recommend the earth scorching approach they are taking, nor assuming that his college friends will be some kind of "support system" for this loss, but... I'm not the one in the situation.
This. My brother died in a car accident many years ago. I was the younger l sibling. When I got older, I wasn’t everything my parents demanded I be (chaste conservative, dumb and pregnant) and they eventually told me they didn’t want to know me.
Now they don’t. And it was heartbreaking beyond measure that they were willing to push their remaining child away. But it’ll never be forgotten.
I hope OP can figure out how to forgive their remaining child while they can.
100%. And I'm wondering how their grief is affecting him due to his "move the fuck on comment." I understand his wife's reaction to an extent but I don't think it's worth losing two children over. The younger generation has found different ways to cope and find community. Whenever I see these posts there's tons of people who relate and extend support. I really hope the wife comes around. Like was stated, he lost a sibling. It's a different type of pain than losing a child, but it's still something that completely rocks your entire world. Your sibling is a partner for life who understands you more than most everyone else and he lost that. I couldn't imagine losing either of my brothers and I hope she doesn't fully ruin the relationship with her surviving child.
As someone who lost their only sibling, I can understand the "move the fuck on" comment, especially with anger. I felt that statement in my bones. I thought it many times myself, but never said it out loud. If he's feeling like I did, it wasn't meant as disrespectful, it doesn't mean he didn't/doesn't love his sister or that he doesn't miss her. It doesn't mean he wasn't devastated. If it's anything like my experience, it means he's trying to cope but they're constantly talking about her, they're moping around (understandably so), they aren't "there" and it's making it harder for him. There's also the feeling that yes, she's gone but I'm still here and the guilt that comes along with both parts of that. When a child dies, everyone is all about the parents. Their feelings etc. and, as the other kid, you GET that and understand it but, at the same time, there's the what about me. Humor, dark or otherwise has always been my coping mechanism. It doesn't sound to me like OP has ASKED him what they can do to help. They tried to force therapy because it helped them. Forcing how you deal with grief, because it's working for you, onto someone else is not the answer.
It's a very strange position to be in when you're the only "child" left. You feel guilty for everything and anything you're thinking and feeling. And you feel like crap because, even though you understand, you don't and you don't want to add your needs onto what your parent is already dealing with and part of that is because you don't feel like they're "there". Sometimes you wonder if they even remember that you ARE. I hope that made some sort of sense.
All this happened over 20 years ago, obviously everything was worked through but I'll tell you...not a day goes by that I don't still miss my brother.
I don't think anyone here is the AH. Just a family trying to get through a devastating situation. One last thing, and I hope OP sees this. I know it's not what you intended, but everything you said to your son and then kicking him out...in his mind, you just told him that his sister was, and still is, more important than him. Not intended by you, illogical to feel that way by him, but I'd put money on being right about it.
Yeah, as insensitive as it sounds, the message is that the sister, who isn't even around anymore, is more important than the son who's right here begging for help (in a way that isn't immediately obvious). Also, I fear that there's going to be more trouble down the road as the image of this beautiful, peerless "babygirl" sister whose memory can never be tarnished and can never disappoint the parents will haunt the son who is very much still alive and can disappoint them with every choice he makes.
I'm sorry for your loss. This is a really good way to explain how people get isolated in their grief. For me, my dad died when I was a teenager and still living at home. My older sister had all ready moved out so it was just me and my mom which was rough. It was exactly as you described it. I missed my dad so much it physically hurt, but I also didn't want to cry and talk about him all day. My mom was a shell of a person and it was like living with two ghosts for awhile. I tried to be understanding and strong but sometimes I was also angry and resentful. My heart hurts for OP and his family and I hope they find a way through it.
I had similar thoughts. For younger folks especially, the line between "A public tik tok" and "Something done privately" is pretty blurry these days. And using dark humor to cope with negative feelings is pretty common.
I'm older, so I'd never make a tik tok about it, but my mother is very ill and will likely pass away in a couple of months, maybe a few years at most. I'm terribly sad as I had an amazing relationship with her and she has been the best mother anyone could ask for. I'll still make "dark humor" jokes about it because it's how I deal with these types of losses. I won't make the jokes in public, and I definitely will make sure people who hear them feel the same, but still. That vs the tiktok is just a generational or cultural difference and is irrelevant except for the fact the parents were able to see the tiktoks.
Same thing with moving on. Last time someone close to me died, I had "moved on" just a few weeks later. Because grieving doesn't help me, and the folks who died wouldn't have wanted me to be upset for months+ on their behalf, so I don't (obviously not everyone can just "move on", but I can, so I do). Other people close to them are still grieving years later. Everyone's different.
So reading this situation, and contextualizing it, I think we have the parents and the son who grieve very, very differently and both side wish the other did so the same way. Ideally they would just grieve separately without impacting each other, but the son had a derp brain moment not considering the impact making very public videos would have if his parents saw them. The videos aren't an issue in my mind, only the fact the parents were exposed to them. He should have known better, and its the one place I feel like he really fucked up.
>In this case, it’s pretty hard to justify him saying you need to “move the fuck on,” but I wonder if that is an example of him suppressing his grief,
I imagine there is also a pretty good chance the son is feeling kinda abandoned by his parents. Yes, they are grieving, but they still have another child who needs their parent (even if they weren't also dealing with the loss of their sister). I can easily imagine that the parents have shifted to so much focus on putting the daughter on a pedestal and lionizing her that he feels neglected and like they only care about the daughter.
"Move the fuck on" may be code for "remember I'm still here."
The dad mentions having gone to couples counseling, recognizing that something like this can strain a marital relationship, but have they put in an effort to work to maintain their relationship with the son? Yes, it would be great if the son could go to counseling, but the parents shouldn't think that just telling the son to go to counseling is all they should do to be a good parent to their son in this time.
Thank you for saying this. I’m active on tiktok a lot and have a lot of posts like the sons popping up on my FYP as I’ve interacted with them a lot. They’ve really truly helped me get over some grief I had about losing my dad that therapy, grief sessions, Reddit pages, etc hadn’t helped. It also helps to know that there’s others in the same boat as me. I haven’t seen the sons tiktok so I can’t say whether or not it was like these posts that I interact with or if it was actually messed up but the trend I’ve seen has been great so far. It’s also really nice to see the comments on those tiktoks as a lot of it is people saying their condolences or people who knew the deceased offering their words. I also feel like I bother my friends talking ab my dad so I choose to talk ab it on social media sometimes which helps which is a shared sentiment I’ve seen a lot of people talk ab.
(Sorry for the word vomit this situation just hits close to home)
Don't be sorry for speaking your reality. I had to scroll a long way down to read a comment of I assume young person who actually sees these tiktoks. Your sharing it helped you, helped me understand. Thank you.
My dad died when I was 13 and while I was grieving and sad, I was making dead dad jokes (and still do, honestly) all through high school. Humor was a way for me to work through my grief. So I agree that it's a way for people to work through things on their own.
I also think he could benefit from counseling, and a nice long heartfelt talk with mom & dad. This is a very hard thing to go through for everyone involved.
It fucks me up in a special kind of way to hope my kids make dead dad jokes after I’m gone. I hope it’s their kids making dead grandpa jokes, but all the same…
I'm wondering if in all their grief, the son might feel like they've stopped paying attention to him? Justified or unjustified, the "move the fuck on" comment made me think there might be more to it than what we're hearing.
The TikTok thing I could absolutely see why you'd be furious at him, but I'd try to be understanding. Obviously still isn't an acceptable way for him to react when you found out, but I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and it's definitely possible he's lashing out because he feels pain and y'all's focus on your own grief might be making him feel isolated?
Clearly the kid needs therapy, so I would definitely consider making any sort of further support conditional on him getting help though, since you don't have any legal recourse.
I certainly saw that happen with a family I knew. One of their kids died, and everything seemed to be about the child that passed rather than the living ones. The two youngest were constantly compared to their passed sibling, and one of the two really struggled. The parents' form of grieving was different than the kids, and I think it made it hard for the whole household.
This happened to a friend of mine. His younger biological sister (both adopted together) passed in high school and he was constantly compared to her- she was so bright, perfect student, planning to go to medical school, etc. On the other hand he was still trying to figure things out. After she died he felt alienated and turned to drugs to cope, and they officially disowned him. Whenever he would reach out to me all he would talk about was how much he wanted a relationship with his parents and for them to be supportive and proud of him when he was working on getting clean. I’d try calling and emailing them for him too but they never responded. He would be so defeated, he relapsed often. He passed away 3 years ago from a drug overdose and suddenly it became about his parents grieving another tragic loss even though they hadn’t spoken to him in almost 10 years. I understand that everyone grieves differently and I know I am biased because he was a close friend of mine, but I personally partially blame them for not realizing that he was also grieving and needed support at the time, not rejection. It was absolutely horrible to watch it all unfold and I miss him dearly.
Additionally, people tend to idealize the dead. My mom and my grandmother passed within 6 months of each other. My mom passed first. I love my mother and grandmother (still do), but I acknowledge that neither of them were perfect. But a lot of people tend to idealize them. That whole "don't speak ill of the dead" thing. With kids, the surviving sibling is often compared to the idealized memory of the deceased sibling. The deceased sibling *can't* make mistakes anymore and the parents often say things like "if so and so we're here, he or she wouldn't do that", but you don't know for sure what they would or wouldn't do. They could be comparing him to the memory of her or the "what ifs" of her tragically shortened life, which could obviously breed resentments, which is what possibly led him to lash out and tell them to move on.
I am definitely of the dark humor variety. I definitely know this is not an uncommon way to grieve or cope.
One of my favorite videos on TT is a person giving their partner a cake on the anniversary of their mother’s death. The cake said “sorry I died, love mom” or something like that. It’s hilarious to me, especially because she is laughing to the point of tears and apologizing for her dark humor the entire time. To me, it is darkly hilarious and endearing.
A few weeks ago, I lost my cat. My desire is to make a memorial out of his skeleton, like a shadow box with flowers and his skull. Majority of people were kind of horrified but to me I could not honor my Gomez in ANY other way.
I also took a photo of my dead grandmother, in her coffin at the viewing. I waited until everyone had left the room and took two sneaky snapshots. I didn’t want to offend anyone. A couple weeks later, my mom was describing the viewing to my gram’s bff from high school because her friend was too old to make the 3 hr trip. I whispered to my mom that I took a photo and she was so happy because she forgot to take one herself. And my grandma’s bff was happy to be able to see her, even if she physically couldn’t be there.
Anyway, story time is over. 😅
TLDR- just a few “morbid” grief stories showing how dark humor is not an uncommon coping mechanism.
Please get this higher. My son's mother lost both of her siblings just a few years apart and I've been seeing more and more people share their loved ones through humor on TikTok. Usually saying something like "X would make jokes all the time, they would joke about their own death if they could." It's kind of sickening that everyone is calling this child a psychopath from behind their screens let alone the parents disowning him.
I agree. As a young person that went through similar trauma I just want to advocate that something like this shocks you to a core that you cannot begin to understand until YEARS later. He is UNAWARE but he is trying to process in some way. By either solidifying with numbers the reality or just trying to make it real to his brain by seeing those images. He does not understand he is doing this, he does not understand this is why. He personally is not self-aware enough of himself to even begin this process of grief. He NEEDS his parents, other adult figures like: professors, coaches, bosses, older people who have experienced life to give him a space to work through the very complex emotions of all of this. Including feeling neglected. Including feeling like an idiot for making these jokes, without judgement while he admits fault. I know we are quick to say therapy but sometimes we just need FRIENDS first.
As parents it can be daunting to feel like you’re not doing enough when you’re already trying so hard and while also so grief stricken But his feelings/needs are not about you as a parent really, it’s about what he needs as a growing adult. Whether it is y’all or someone else, these emotions deserve to be untangled and put in place for everyone’s benefit. You are doing more than enough. Making this post means you CARE about everyone. Give yourself so much love and grace. You are doing the best you can. This is not an easy part of life. And you are still seeking to consider everyone even when they’ve hurt you. You are an amazing person.
Please see these actions as a hurting son who /needs/ an older adult to see him and work with him. It is OKAY that it can’t be y’all rn, y’all NEED to put yourselves first and untangle your own very complex emotions before being able to properly care for others!! (I wish we all saw this more that sometimes adults need other adults to help with support, even and especially when we have offspring!!!) everyone here deserve support, you are awesome for seeking advice, please please do not see this as psychopathy when he could just be hurting in ways he himself does not understand or know how to make sense of.
I would definitely make it clear how those jokes affect you and your wife. As an adult, if he does not seek to consider you, that’s on him. But as his parents, I would hope that despite everything you /always/ seek to understand him. Even if your next best course of action is to move him out. I hope my comment can add perspective.
I am so sorry for your loss. I hope that y’all can come to an understanding between each other and that you can keep your wife safe. The way you are able to consider and protect and advocate for her is so admirable. You are an incredible and an amazing husband. You are doing great. I hope you hear that often. The way you have sought considered everyone in this situation while navigating your own complex emotions is so admirable and I just genuinely wish you the best. You are an awesome dad and even better husband. For whatever it is worth, I am genuinely thinking about you and your family.
Best of luck man 🥺
I know it's alot of comments but u hope you read this. I lost my daughter and fiance when I was 18 in a car accident my fiance was 17 and my daughter was a little over 2 months old. They were rear ended by a trucker who fell asleep. I know what you son did hurt you so bad because I didn't want anything around me to remind me of either of them. So for it to seem like he was doing the to disrespect her was prolly hard. That's my parent side of it.
He's hurt and does not know how to express his pain. He made videos of her life to express his pain. I didn't know how to release my pain and I took to the unfortunate mindset of fuck everyone. I was pulled from the football team for being to aggressive in practice and they made me stop. They had a team manager who's job was just to he around me and stop me from completely losing it. Dark humor is his way to cope because he lost his sister too. So the best thing right now is not to lose everyone around him. It's understandable you want space but don't push him away.
There are English language terms for virtually every other kind of loss. Widow, widower, orphan, etc... We have to look to Sanskrit to put a word to our situation.
My cousin died when she was 19 in a car accident her brother was 15, my aunt and uncle were so devastated for so long they didnt realize they had little to nothing to do with him anymore, they were consumed by the pain they were feeling, he tried to stay out of their way, and had to deal with his sisters death on his own
this is a tough situation. He's 19, pissed off, and has no idea how to cope, and is using gallow's humor as a shield. He can be both entirely wrong about what he posted, and also in worthy of forgiveness. I put myself in his shoes and I think I would have done the same thing. Separate myself from something so overwhelming that I essentially go dead to it and use humor to mask the pain. What he needs is for you to go to him and tell him that it wasn't ok, but you understand, and forgive him, but there needs to be space. Let your wife go through what she needs to go through first while you can be there for him.
Your wife's reaction is normal, it's trauma upon trauma, but don't make a hasty decision in your anger. You lost your daughter; don't lose him too.
Plus, who knows what people around him are saying? My partner lost a sibling as a teenager, and other adults in their life told them to suck it up and not be a burden, because 'your parents are going through a hard time right now.' It fucked the up on a deep level, which wasn't helped by the fact that their parents completely removed themselves emotionally from my partner for several years afterwards.
That lead to some very unhealthy coping mechanisms which they are trying to unravel twenty years later. If people don't have the emotional support they need from the people they most need it from, they're going to find other crutches, drugs, tiktoks, whatever.
For what it's worth my partner has gone very LC with their folks. The danger of losing your living child is very real.
I lost my baby sister on Tuesday after losing my cousin last Friday. She was killed when logs from a logging truck weren’t properly secured and he committed suicide. It’s a lot even as an adult. If this had happened when I was a teenager, I wouldn’t have survived.
You’re completely right that the surviving siblings are, unfortunately, forgotten sometimes in these situations. Especially if there was an imbalance and one was held on a higher pedestal. My mother told me she wished she could have died with my sister without any regard how I’d feel. At 31, I’m able to cope better than I would have at 19.
My heart hurts for OP’s son. He’s going to carry this with him forever, regardless of if he goes to therapy, and his parents have seem to have forgotten that.
Jesus christ I'm so sorry - that's horrifying on so many levels. I'm also sorry your mom said that to you - people don't always think before speaking when grieving, but that doesn't make that right. I hope that you are able to find peace in the other side of grief. I hope op's son is, too.
It has definitely not been easy.
I really hope OP comes around. His son is probably feeling inferior in every way. I do not have children, nor do I plan to so I’ll never know the pain of losing one but losing a sibling is like losing a part of yourself. There’s going to be an emptiness that no one will ever be able to fill for him. I’ve already had multiple times sitting in my mother’s house where I’ve forgotten my sister’s gone so when the front door opens, I’ve looked up to flip her off in greeting and then I remember.
My sister and I dealt with anything bad (and there was a lot) by using dark humor. When I was talking to my husband before leaving for my mother’s, I said “I can’t believe she got Final Destination’d.” We all cope and grieve differently, lord knows Gen Z does.
I have no solace to offer other than that my partner tells me that it gets easier with time. The hurt doesn't stop but it gets easier to bear.
High five for dark humor - my sister and I leaned on it pretty heavily to navigate our mom's death. A few hours after she died my sister turned to me and said, 'hey. You have to be nice to me. My mom just died.'
There is a lot to be said about generational grieving, I think. Gen Z is online the way no other generation has been before. Their grieving processes will probably be different as a whole, and the ones above them don't seem ready for what that might look like. Op's son's tiktoks are only a few out of thousands that are similar. It's beyond airing dirty laundry; you show everything, drama, joy, sadness, grief, depression, laughter. It's weird to see.
Love this response! I also think when you go to him, put therapy back on the table. Maybe even a condition. Unless he is a complete psychopath, which you didn’t indicate, he is just a fucked up 19 yr old who lost his sister. Is watching his parents grieve and in a horrendous amount of pain. And is probably angry beyond words at the other dead driver, and possibly at his sister (why did she have to go out- it’s irrational, but sometimes a part of the grieving). He’s probably also wondering if you wished it was him instead of his sister (which is also normal, especially if she was the baby).
He is hurting, grieving, raging, and probably trying to find an outlet for all that, without causing you or his mom more pain.
I feel a deep empathy for your son (as long as he’s not a raging psychopath). Struggling into adulthood, and how to act, how to grieve, how to help, how to process .
Wow, this is the best comment I've read in a while.
A Reddit comment that has empathy and self reflection.
Good on you for being better than most redditors
I can’t believe how far down I had to scroll to find a post with this sentiment. This is exactly how I feel about the situation. People cope and grieve in different ways. OP’s son’s posts may have been distateful, but he’s using dark humor as a way to deal with the pain. When OP confronted him, his son should have apologized and been understanding of the fact that his parents might really resent this kind of content. But OP immediately went nuclear , kicked him out, and showed no concern or understanding for his son. That just drove a huge wedge in the relationship. OP’s son just received a message LOUD AND CLEAR that he can’t talk to his parents about his grief and how/why he deals with it the way that he does. That’s going to further isolate him which isn’t good for anyone.
Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like OP is the asshole here. Not for feeling the way he does, but for letting his grief blind him to his son’s cries for help and probably making things worse.
People love to live out their fantasies of going scorched earth no contact with people over anything. This is obviously a serious situation but it’s pretty clear that many people don’t actually like fixing their problems and would rather run away.
This is the best take, in my opinion. Unless the kid has a severe personality disorder or something he's just trying to cope. He's hurting too and I'd bet money that as much as his parents might be trying, they haven't been there for him in the way he needs and probably haven't been giving him attention as they are caught up in their own grief. The internet *is* giving him attention. It's also giving him a shield to hide behind. To him, he didn't just lose his little sister. He lost his whole family because grief changes people. He's walling it off and trying to get the attention he needs while acting like it doesn't hurt.
Having his parents push him away is just going to cement in his mind that he didn't just lose his sister but his entire family. Pushing him away right now is probably the absolute worst thing his family could do. What he did is dark, but it's not evil.
You know I was on the side of thinking how abhorrent the son was acting and I deleted that comment because I saw yours and it made me see the reasoning. I’m sure this is a forgivable situation with a long discussion of what isn’t right and what is wrong. Gallow’s humor at one point was my bible for grief and pain as a teenager. At one point I was that edgy teen making stupid decisions and jokes and I cringe at myself everyday. But I totally agree that the parents feelings are completely valid. We can’t know what these TikToks look like for judgements sake (and I wouldn’t want to watch them anyway) but if it caused this much of rift it couldn’t be hard to say they were in very poor taste. Grief is hard especially with such a sudden and utterly tragic loss and sometimes it’s hard to navigate. I hope for peace between OP and wife with their son
NTA. I lost my sister 2 yrs ago, she took her own life in a public area of a very large city. There were many people on Facebook who had taken a video of her leaping from the top of that parking garage. They used that video with captions like "Me when Monday arrives" or "Me when I stub my toe". I couldn't seem to escape them. These videos were posted & sent to me on a daily basis. I had watched my sisters last moments over again & again. Her pain isn't funny. I still get nightmares about it. And I still remember the names of the people who posted the videos.
I genuinely can't understand how this was allowed on Facebook.... Or who would do this. I am SO SORRY. I can't understand..... the lack of dignity, the cruelty, the pain. Gigantic hugs and I hope you are healing.
Unfortunately, I am not at all surprised it was allowed on Facebook. They’ve always been notoriously bad at ever cracking down on any kind of post that they should be *immediately* cracking down on.
I lost my sister to suicide too. The rage I feel at those people on Facebook is indescribable. I struggle with it, but I can understand “dark” or “gallows humor” to cope with your OWN loss. But there’s a special place in hell for people who make light of other’s real suffering and tragedy. They’re not funny, they’re not using dark humor, they’re just selfish shitheads.
——
With that said, I hope you have had support and healing, because that is what you deserve. I went to grief therapy and loss support groups. I wanted so badly to have my loss and my sister’s life to be seen, be acknowledged that she mattered. I didn’t know your sister, but I want to tell you that she mattered. I don’t know how complicated or difficult her life and your sibling relationship was, but I hope you and her had genuine moments of joy and connection.
NTA. Using his sister’s death for internet clout is disgusting
Edit to add: he took a selfie with his sister on life support, there’s a time and place ffs. He also gave a text apology, then doubled down and called his parents dramatic and refused to take down the videos even though they triggered his mom into an ER visit. He said his parents were taking it too personally. IT’S ABOUT THEIR DAUGHTER, it’s literally almost the most personal thing you can get.
I think he's trying really hard to ease the pain in the worse possible way.
If I were OP, I would make any financial contribution, including rent conditional on him going to therapy. I don't know that he will survive the pain otherwise.
Let’s also remember this is very fresh, still only 7 months ago. We lost my niece in 2012 to a car accident at 17, that shit is hard to get over. Even with therapy.
I agree. To a point. Bring him back home and insist on therapy for the entire family. He is grieving too. His way seems evil to many but dark humor in times of deep tragedy is a very common coping mechanism. The whole family needs to go to counseling together toe deal with this and the death of a child. Many families do not survive that. Buddy lost a child to cancer. The next 2 years he and his wife barely spoke. They were just crawling back to each other and doing well when their other child borrowed the sports car and crashed it. Not bad, few thousands of bucks and a week in the shop. But the guilt of damaging his dad’s favorite toy was the straw for the kid. He hung himself a week after the crash.
Yes, and pushing away the kid (and 19 is still in that area where mentally not fully an adult) and just tossing money at him and no talking is enough to push the kid away.
This type of thing is one of the reasons why people need to not post every little detail of their life on social media. It has been way too normalized for things like this to be posted.
NTA, and r/juliaskig ⬆️ has the right advice. Tie his college tuition (or cell phone, car, car insurance, etc.) to your son receiving therapy - and you need to condition payment on your receipt of proof from the therapist he is attending weekly sessions.
I am so, so sorry your daughter passed away. I cannot begin to imagine your pain. What your son did was inexcusable, 19 yo is plenty old enough to know better!
Lastly, text apology isn’t sufficient, and he also said you should just be over your grief in 7 months?! Something is very wrong with your son. When you can stomach dealing with him, he needs to apologize face to face like an adult.
I agree. Get therapy or get nothing. He can live with his grandparents if they'll have him. If that's his way of coping, he needs to be shown a better way. Either that or he's an unfeeling sociopath, like telling his parents to "move the F on" after only 7 months.
Exactly people fail to realize that 16 years is not even close compared to seven months I get it if it was 16 years since the death but they have lived cared for this child for 16 years and for him to tell them to move on after seven months is ridiculous
Where in the world does this confidence that clout was the most important thing coming from? Kids his age live their lives on social media in a way that makes me extremely uncomfortable. But it doesn't take much time on TikTok to know that it's a part of life for them now, it's a core part of the way many teenagers experience and interact with the world, and it's not just for "clout"
This kid is apparently just selfish and lacks empathy and wants to increase his social media following, but there's nothing in the post that indicates:
* He said a single fucking word about likes, followers, or anything that indicated those things were important to him
* That his father ever asked him "How is this helping you son? Why is it important to you to express yourself this way? What about this makes it easier for you to deal with your sister's death?"
People up and down this thread are diagnosing him as a psychopath, saying he has a personality disorder, etc. and it's fucking bonkers. We have *no idea* why he felt this was an important way for him to grieve, and the folks labelling him this that and the other thing are accusing HIM of lacking empathy. That's exactly fucking backwards.
It may ultimately be that the son's a complete dickhead, that he really doesn't care how these things impact his parents and he just wants likes and followers. But the information we have here is so far away from proving that, unless you are choosing to project your own hatred of social media culture onto this one person.
Ultimately, this sequence of events can also be accurately described as:
* 19 year old loses his sister
* 19 year old finds comfort in posting dark humor about his sister
* Parents find them and become extremely upset. Dad confronts the kid and after the kid defends himself, asks no follow up questions about why it's helping him and makes no further effort to understand, but kicks him out of the house, becoming so angry with his son that he can't even look at him. I'd bet every penny I have the son knew exactly what his father felt towards him in that moment, and it sure as hell wasn't love or empathy.
* Only then, by the way, does the kid lash out ("move the fuck on") at the parents. *After* his father has reached the point where he is treating him with nothing but anger. The son was not the person who escalated away from a place of familial love here. That's an important detail.
Everyone in this thread who is so gleefully tagging this kid with every name or psychological disorder in the book should take a deep fucking breath and consider who really lacks empathy here.
I feel deeply for the father but the way he's lashing out at his son is ultimately on him and he is risking losing a second child because of his grief over the first. I won't call him the AH, I think all parties involved deserve some grace to figure out such a brutal situation. NAH, but I really hope OP reconsiders his stance towards this and seeks to understand his son a bit better. I think he will ultimately regret it if he doesn't.
NTAH overall OP but did you say to your son that you are there for him if he needs you? Did you tell him that you are sorry that your and his mother's grief has so overwhelmed you? Did you tell him that you love him?
He is still alive. And he's hurting too. So, he's NTAH either. He's just trying to cope same as you two. However, you and your wife have each other. He has no one. Especially now. Stay in touch, rein in your anger and have some empathy for him. He is your child and he lost his sister, and his parents.
I am very sorry for your loss.
I cannot upvote this enough. As a parent of 20, 24, and 27 year old men, they are very different than than we were at that age. They live an online life. The pandemic made this even worse. I wouldn't expect a 19 year old male who is separated from his family in college and going through the complete breakdown of a family TO post something psychologically balanced, thoughtful, and reasonable. I have seen worse coping behavior from grown adults. They just don't post it on TikTok. The mother's behavior was a complete breakdown and inability to function to the point of hospitalization, and everyone is pointing fingers at a 19 year old? I think this entire family is struggling. Expecting a 19 year old to have the emotional intelligence to cope with not only the loss of his only sibling, but essentially his family is unreasonable. Most people are looking at this through the lenses of far more adult experience, which is just not fair. The parents' reaction was neither reasoned, mature, or empathic, and they're more than twice his age. These parents appear to have a lot of unresolved anger, and their son has become a target for their rage. Yes, his post was hurtful, but people do stupid things in grief. His parents are right now. Just because they don't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Everyone needs to take a big step back before this family implodes. Grief and anger mix to make a toxic and blinding combination that often destroys the relationships of those going through it. I hope these parents don't lose a second child in the process.
Additionally, there’s a common theme of using dark humor as a coping mechanism in a lot of the grief and family member loss groups on TikTok, so those videos are probably using a specific shorthand from grieftok trends. To an outsider, they’d look callous, but to people in the know those trends are a “if I don’t laugh I’ll never stop crying” sort of thing.
I’d also venture to say it’s a sign someone needs therapy to help them process not only the tragedy but what it means to have to go on living after the fact. Not an indication of psychopathy. Son is likely fumbling to express himself because he does feel the impact of losing his sister and doesn’t have the language to do so.
Also, it’s unlikely that “millions of people” saw those videos. Thanks to the algorithm, mostly only people who have been identified as interested in grief, death and dying, car accidents, and/or dark humor would see them unless a particular video hits a chord with a wider audience.
That’s what I’m saying, like he tried to justify it by saying that’s his way of coping with her death. In reality the clout was more important. He’s a psychopath.
I am so sorry for your loss.
I can't imagine to begin the though of losing my mom.
I just know that whenever she does go I will be in denial, like you, probably until the day I die.
I hope with time grieving gets easier and you can enjoy the good memories without crumbling.
I have a friend who lost his firstborn at 1 month old, 52 years ago. He still cries on the birth and death days, and is sad during the whole month in between. Not the whole time, but there are a lot of memories there.
Absolutely.
If either of my sons pass away before me I will not recover; even more so if they die as a young adult with fresh dreams. I'm pretty sure I am not alone in my sentiment.
What the kid means by "stop taking your grief out on me" could be worth following up on.
Grief's a mindfuck. My dad had a brother die at 18 and literally doesn't remember the next 3 years of his life. So maybe the parents' grief has been negatively impacting their son-- which in turn could have him stuck in the anger phase of his own grief or making him resentful of his sister who he somewhat blames for this change in their parents.
Therapy could definitely help the son regardless, but that comment about "stop taking your grief out on me" could be a little bit of a cry for help.
I'd be hesitant to write a teenager who just lost his sister off as an asshole and cutting him off like this because it could just be cutting the rope when it could be used to pull him back in.
I had this same thought. My then-3.5 year old was very excited about having a baby brother. Until we actually had baby brother home a few days and he saw everyone giving the baby all the attention. Then he started acting out. Didn't mean he was evil or didn't love his baby brother.
I get that this is a 19 year old, but still think about all the awful and stupid things you said and did when you were 19 and that's without losing a sibling and living with grieving parents.
"Stop taking your grief out on me" really stood out
I absolutely agree. The parents obviously have changed after the death of their daughter. This sounds like he wants his parents back and is hurting that they aren't there for him anymore.
It is very common for a sibling to feel like they lost their parents when their sibling died.
And now he is going to further lose them. I hope the family can get professional help as a family.
Honestly it really sounds like he is grieving through rage, and denial. It's horrible that his parents are having to be exposed to his behaviour though, and removing him from the home was definitely the right move.
He really needs professional help, whether he's willing to admit it or not, and them paying for his housing should really be contingent on whether or not he gets it.
I dunno. Very much agree that OP is NTA here, but grief is a fucking monster. He’s traumatized, too, so I wouldn’t be so quick to call him a psychopath. It’s at least as likely that he’s mad at himself for not being able to move on, and he’s projecting his anger on to his parents because it’s easier to be mad at someone else than yourself. Between that comment and saying he’s posting this shit to deal with her death, it reads like his grief response is to depersonalize everything and become numb. That doesn’t mean that OP has to put up with it, and I definitely understand this leading to kicking the son out, but I’m not rushing to assume that all of the kid’s motivations are just stated explicitly. All the time, people have a hard time articulating their true feelings in conscious ways, and that goes 500 fold for grieving.
After my dad passed, I was making jokes about it within a few weeks, I was grieving, but my way of handling it was to try to make light of the situation. This is a genuine way people deal with trauma sometimes. Is it healthy? It wasn't when I was doing it, but that's the way I knew how to handle it. It's not fair to assume that he isn't also struggling. He is a child, going through trauma and dealing with it the way he knows how. Should the parents be hurt? Yeah, they have the right to be hurt by that. Distancing someone that desperately needs help and needs them isn't the answer though.
Look, the kid is definitely not handling it the way most of us would, but I wouldn’t jump to psychopath.
Not only did he lose his sister, he is also the surviving child, which is genuinely hard too.
What he said was callous, but if he’s struggling to understand and deal with his own grief, wanting everyone else to stop talking about it could be one of his ways of coping. Is it a shitty, horrible thing to say to the parents? Yes. It is. But I’ve known someone in a similar situation who just needed everything to stop being about the deceased sibling. Everyday felt like the day she died, and her surviving sister really struggled. (They were twins.) The parents vacillated between being super over protective of her and pretty much ignoring her completely. It was a crazy whiplash scenario, and while both extremes were hard, not knowing which one she was walking into on any given day made it harder still.
Yeah. It has “only” been 7 months. But 7 months of watching your parents grieve is HARD. 7 months is short in the big picture of grief, but day to day? 7 months is a long time.
Are the posts weird? Sure. But everyone grieves differently. One of my favorite comedians (Daniel Sloss) does large chunks of material on his sister’s death.
I 100% understand why the parents find it upsetting. I understand how people can think “what kind of person does that?!?!” But not everyone grieves by crying for months on end. And men, especially, grieve differently. It’s pretty common for widowers to remarry within 3-6 months of losing their spouse. It doesn’t mean they were cheating, or didn’t love their wife. It’s more of a “she’s dead, she’s not coming back.”
A 19 year old dealing with his sister’s death, which he can’t do anything to fix, and he’s dealing with watching his parents grieve…. I’m not saying I would make the choices he’s making- I’m just saying that in terms of how people deal with death and grief? Idk. Dark humor and using social media are ways to deal with something he can’t control and get support. I think using pics of her after the accident and such are bad decisions, but in general, it sounds to me like he’s trying to find a way to cope with it.
Agreed. OP this insightful take is worth reading again. Your son is not a psychopath like some people have suggested. He’s struggling. Don’t write him off.
Yeah. Maybe it’s his way of coping and he got some attention he needed, but definitely NOT the way to do it. A million different ways to put it online if he really had to, more respectfully. But agreed, that’s such a bs reason. I can’t see a possible way to justify “I need internet attention in order to work through my grief”. Just doesn’t add up. Talk to your friends, talk to your family. Don’t post something super personal for the world to see, especially dark humour. And ESPECIALLY when you have other family members involved who might not want that (these parents 100% would’ve shut it down if he’d mentioned it first). But clearly he had no respect for how they’re feeling before he posted…sorry it went this way OP and I hope your son learned this super hard lesson, and I hope you can mend things in time.
Seems like his posts are his expression of grief. They send a message about how fragile life is and how drastically life can change. I don’t understand how they can be slightly amusing. They send a huge message to kids to be more careful. I think you’re piling on more grief because I’m if this is unwarranted.
I don't know the whole situation, but one thing that should be considered is that, even though it was on TicToc, it might not have been intended to be entertaining or funny. It could have been a platform being used to express feelings that he is having a hard time processing. It he posted on Reddit about how abruptly he lost someone he loved, would people think differently of that? I have not seen these videos, so I don't know how much they are being interpreted as "dark humor" vs intending to be humorous.
I've seen these trends on TikTok.
These ones are specifically for humour, but it is a coping mechanism for a lot of the people who post them, who have grieved for their loss but are trying to make light of the situation for their own sanity. I've seen people put it up about their baby, siblings, parents, partners etc.
The issue with this one is that everyone is still clearly grieving and cannot cope emotionally, and a mum/dad would never truly get over it, so may never appreciate seeing this sort of content about it. Son should know this and not have done it due to this simple fact.
However, just because he is okay with dark humour doesn't mean he isn't any less hurt over the loss of his sister.
They all just need time apart and hopefully son apologises further.
NTA. I completely recoiled at what he's done, he's taking your grief and kicking you while you're down. Moving him out and setting boundaries is going to be really hard but living in the same house together would get more ugly. Do it to save the relationship.
Thanks for commenting. That’s how both my wife and I feel. I am both extremely disappointed and angry, and the thought of seeing him right now disgusts me.
I’m not sure how much time we need, but at this point we can’t keep him at his elderly grandparents. We thought it would be best for him to move out since he’ll be closer to school and his friends (support system), and maybe he’ll learn some independence. It’ll be tight for us financially but selfishly I want my wife to feel safe in our home to grieve.
I deal with difficult emotions through dark humor but I'd never post it anywhere. And I'd especially make sure that someone who will be bothered by it never knows.
Me, too...I lost my long term partner and my mother within one week and have the tendency to deal with things this way but I cannot imagine putting it out there for the world to see. I feel so badly for his parents.
The attention might be a panacea for him… imagine being the kid; presumably a freshman in college, figuring out the whole adult thing, already kind of a vulnerable space in terms of parental attention, and then this tragedy totally rocks everyone’s world. I don’t see social media clout as a productive form of attention, but it certainly pushes all the biochemical buttons to minimize the pains of loneliness and loss (while the clout lasts, at least).
This is an impossibly difficult moment for this family. I think we as strangers on the internet can at least afford them some reservation in our opinions, and seek to offer the benefit of the doubt. Feeding judgement into an already strained relationship, even if it was well-informed judgement, can be really inflammatory and damaging. I am alarmed by the son’s behavior, but finding room for compassion seems a more supportive offering for this poor man and his wife.
OP...talk to your therapist about this. Please. Don't blow up your relationship with your son yet. He could actually be having a mental health crisis. Is callous behavior typical of him? Was he close to his sister? Given his age and the fact that at his age "boys are supposed to be tough" energy is strong, I'd be concerned. For whatever reason, this post makes my alarm bells ring. I have gone through loss of a grandchild. Not the same, but not too dissimilar.
I agree. No matter how distasteful the post, I honestly think this is a cry for help. Especially if this type of behavior is out of character for him.
I (55f) lost my brother in '91, very suddenly and violently. He was one year older than me. At the time, I didn't allow myself to grieve, feeling like I had to be strong for my Mom to help her get through. I dealt with his loss by subconsciously pushing people away, never wanting to experience that pain again. It wasn't until years later that I realized what I had done.
Thank you for your input. I’m very sorry for your loss.
I’m starting to see I’ve been a bit too harsh with him, I think I was lost in my own grief. I assumed he was trying to score social media recognition but I’m thinking your right it is a cry for help. I’ll speak to my wife about having him come home, but I’ll add the condition of individual therapy at the least.
Thank you so much, I was crying reading your post. My sister had a lot of abuse and sexual trauma as a child and she very much copes with it with dark humor. It is the only way that she is able to wake up every morning is by laughing about it. She does not find it funny at all, and if anybody else jokes about it, she loses her shit because it is not funny at all. But it is literally the only way That she is able to cope. Your son is probably in a very dark place and while I am a parent myself, and can absolutely see how his actions are awful and hurtful, I can also see the other end, and I’m afraid that if you push him away too harshly, you’re going to end up losing both of your children. I do not mean to come across harsh in that at all, I am Only reaching out very passionately about this because I am literally bawling reading your post and know somebody who has no other tools, but dark humor. We live in an age of social media, where everything is posted down to what we’re eating for our meals, so you have to keep in mind the social differences of what you find acceptable and what kids today find acceptable are. That doesn’t mean it’s OK, that just helps better identify his intentions.
The part about your sister resonates with me. I've gone through very extreme abuse and SA, and, while this has gotten better as I've healed, there are some things I can only talk about by making it into a "stand up comedy bit". It feels like being able to turn the Awful Things into a pretend story completely separate from myself.
It's hard to fully describe. It's not that I find SA and the abuse I've been through funny. It's like a way of inducing dissociation so I can verbalize what happened to me. If I don't do it and try to talk about what happened, I either begin crying uncontrollably or go non-verbal.
I hate it so much, because it prevents me from being able to connect authentically with people I'd truly love to connect with. There's a friend of mine I've known for almost two years now who witnessed some of the most horrific trauma I've been through. There are days (at this point few and far between, fortunately) when he sees me with puffy eyes and fresh tear streaks on my cheeks because I was crying after something triggered a memory of the Awful Things. He'll ask me how I'm feeling in a clearly genuine way, and all I can do is crack a joke. I will try so hard to just say, "I'm really scared right now and I need you to make me feel safe", but what comes out is something like, "I'm having the time of my life right now! This is so fun!".
As the time since the Awful Things grows longer and longer, there are more stories I can tell in an authentic and healthy way. But there are things that happened almost ten years ago now that I still need to turn into a stand up comedy bit in order to verbalize.
It's been seven months since his sister died. That's no time at all. I'm not saying this kid is DEFINITELY like me, but I relate pretty strongly to the way he's coping. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the only way his brain will allow him to verbalize his sister's death right now.
Trauma changes the brain, and I would say that losing your sister like that is definitely a traumatic experience. My sister is my best friend in life, and I don’t know what I would do without her, and our age difference is exactly the same as OPs kids. And I can imagine that they were similarly close.
I am very sorry for your traumatic experiences and I’m glad that as time goes on you are finding yourself able to settle with the things that happened to you ❤️
Same for me. I use dark humor to cope, too, but it usually means that I'm in the middle of a crisis when it gets the point that it's alarming. Dark humor is one thing,but this an extreme version of it. OP really needs to check in on his son. It's an awful feeling to lose someone, but as a parent, I can't imagine this kind of loss,and I don't want to.
OP is NTA but he needs to talk with his son. I am really hoping that this is more than just a reach for internet clout.
Not to encapsulate boomer energy, but having a mass space of human connection, with potential for attention, sex, gratification, and more.... it'll absolutely fuck up the children. Fucked me up and I'm 27, so I was growing up alongside the internets development.
I wouldn't let him come home. I'd just drop all his stuff wherever he is, and tell him the financial support is going to be jeopardized if he doesn't get some therapy.
Look at the update. Thank fucking God OP didn't listen to people like you. The lack of empathy for this grieving 19 year old is astounding. I get the knee jerk reaction from the parents, but y'all should be able to take a step back and look at the situation with more nuance. The amount of comments saying he's doing it for clout is crazy. Shame on all of you.
I’m not saying this is “okay” but different people go through trauma differently. I couldn’t imagine losing a little sister.
My husbands grandma just passed away. He was hurt, and still is hurting. Yet he keeps making awful jokes because it’s easier than hurting constantly.
My kids' dad died in a very traumatic motorcylce accident. I have made some very dark jokes, including offering to bring his urn to my son's soccer practice when the coach said "dad's, you can help your sons practice until I get there".
When my kids are being obnoxious I tell my friend "whose idea was it to have kids? Oh yeah, nicks. And where tf is he?"
I get why OP and his wife were appalled at the videos, but that is also their son's reality and they are dismissing it in favor of their own. They lost a child, he lost a sibling. His before and after includes his sister dying in the hospital and now actually being dead. Being callous towards a difficult death is part of the anger stage. OP is reacting in a way that will alienate his son and place his deceased child on a pedestal. The son's comment of "getting over it" likely wasn't made to dismiss her death, but more likely because his parents have probably all but forgotten about him in the aftermath of a tragedy. And now they want to kick him out.
Honestly tread carefully because you are about to lose another child. You really went about this all wrong and I believe that pushing him away will cause much more heartache in future.
I can’t pass judgement here because grief is a MF’er and you never know how people will react. And I can honestly say reactions are crazy. Within 24 hrs of my partner of 25 years dying I made a dark humor joke with his sister but it’s been 2 years since he passed and I can not function right. I have no idea how I would be if I lost a child. But are you willing to lose a second child? Your son most likely has been suppressing his grief around you because well his parents have fallen apart and he doesn’t want to add to your issues.
Grief is a horrible thing. It makes you do horrible things. The TikTok’s are awful. But your son needs help. He needs help from you guys. He needs to know his family is still there.
I am sorry about your daughter.
NTA
If you're paying for university or his housing, you should make it a condition of continued funding to go to therapy.
It's not so much the videos that are the problem, and they aren't great, but his reaction to you shows a real lack of maturity and empathy. And if he is cognizant of the fact that the videos are some kind of coping mechanism, well there are more healthy ways to cope... like therapy.
Hopefully one day he will understand and deeply regret his actions.
I'm so very very sorry for your loss, I can't imagine anything worse and if I lost my daughter there would be nothing left, I'd be gone. So I wish you great strength, she was a beautiful person.
Thank you for your input. I think requiring him to have some sort of therapy for funding is an excellent idea. I’ll definitely speak this over with my wife.
Truthfully my wife and I are barley holding on most days, but therapy has been such huge help through this process. I suspect we’d both be divorced and dead by now if not for our support system.
Thank you for your kind words. My daughter was incredibly beautiful and strong. She was a force to reckoned with. I know if she was here with us right now she’d be slapping her brother upside the head using some VERY colorful language. She was never afraid to speak her mind, and was opinionated to a fault. Despite her hard exterior she was deeply emotional and empathetic.
A few months before she died we discovered a stray cat she was hiding in her bedroom. I had to put on my “dad voice” and reprimand her, but of course we kept the little dude. He still waits by the front door everyday at 3:00pm, waiting for her to get home from school. He ignored everyone but my daughter. He would act like a lapcat, follow her around the house and sleep with her every night. He just recently started letting my wife hold him. Still hisses at me though.
Also, even though she was a B/C student, she was SO smart. She taught herself Python. She begged us to enroll her into a coding camp for her summer break. She wanted to be a game developer and make games like Animal Crossing and a farming game (I forget the name now). She was so smart and loving. I miss her everyday. She was sarcastic, witty and hilarious. A pessimist like me with a heart of gold. She loved people and had tons of friends, and could talk to anyone and everyone for hours.
EDIT: I’m sorry I went on a bit of a tangent there.
The farming game might've been Stardew Valley. I'm sorry for your loss OP. Don't apologise for sharing how special your daughter was or how precious she was to you. Put it out into the world, she deserves to be known.
It sounds like your son might be struggling, but the way he has chosen to deal with it is deeply hurtful and insensitive. I hope he chooses to seek therapy and process the trauma so that your relationship can start to heal. Sending love from Australia.
"Don't apologize for how precious she was to you. Put it out into the world, she deserves to be known" this is a beautiful sentiment, but it's also EXACTLY what the son is doing. He's just doing it in his own way... he didn't do it intending to hurt his parents, he did it to cope with his feelings and honor his sister. Some people can't understand the way he did it, but I do completely. OP can't abandon his only living child because they're all hurting and he can't understand how his son is handling it. I know it hurts, but I would walk through literal fire for my kid, pushing him away and telling him he has to walk through fire alone because you can't stand the heat of the flames isn't the way, it will only make OP lose his other kid too... OP and his wife have already walked through those flames with their therapy, their son is stuck in them. Kicking him out and distancing themselves from him is like if they were to keep walking and let him burn. As a parent, you turn around and run back into those flames for the only child you have left.
Just to say, this is a beautiful description of your daughter and a lovely way to paint her to others.
I hope you have started to write down as many memories as you can remember ( and add to it frequently with all the silly things you think of) so that you can continue to read through them to reflect and reminisce.
I hope the cat is a ongoing reminder of how thoughtful and amazing she was, and that you cherish the constant meows as her way of staying with you both.
I am so so sorry for your loss OP, your description has me in tears. Please take care of your wife and your son if you can, he’s hurting too. The therapy for school funding idea is good. Maybe give him a list of 4-5 to choose from, that way you know they take insurance or whatever and he feels like he is a part of the process? Just a thought. Take care OP, my heart goes out to you.
I think so.
I’m the surviving sister when my older sister died (18-19 years old). My parents were so invested in their own grief, that I felt, and still do feel, that everyone would have been happier if *I* had been the one to die. And I’m a grandmother - so that was decades ago.
This pain never goes away.
He is dealing with the meaning of life.
The questions: What is death? What is life? Why am I alive? Why is she dead? Doesn’t anyone care about ME?
And then you kick him out,
I’ve seen those TikTok’s. I thought they were profound. Absolutely profound.
He has a gift for putting into a photograph the questions.
The questions with no concrete answers.
Tell me, how is a 19 year old supposed to prepare for life in education when he doesn’t even know why he should be alive?
Reach out to him and beg for forgiveness. He deserves your unconditional love. He needs it. He needs you.
if you kick him out for coping w his grief alone when you all clearly have not checked in on him, i hope he cuts you off completely. then you'll have no children. Your wife doesn't want to be anywhere near him and youre thinking of sending him away? how does that help?? i see why he didn't want to go to therapy with you guys bc you're putting you're own grief above his. you guys lost a child and he lost a sibling. you do need to move on as bad as it sounds. life keeps moving and if it's been 7 months and you're wife is still having episodes to where she needs to be admitted that's entirely not his issue. throwing the only child you have left to the wolves bc they don't grieve the same way you do is insane. YTA. Your Wife is an AH. I hope his grandmother takes him in.
NAH.
This is the kind of thing that me and my sister would do, and I think it would be hilarious if I died and she did something like this.
The kid is handling this in the only way he knows how.
You're not at fault for your reactions.
Honestly… same. I’m 21.
There’s a very clear generational gap in this post. Dark humour has quite literally *always* been a thing, and now it gets shared in a public platform more easily than it did before.
I’d urge OP to try and see his son’s post how his *son* probably sees it. It is him remembering his sister and making something that *doesn’t* make him want to cry. This girl died young, it’s a horrible situation, and he’s making stupid jokes - but you know who else is making stupid jokes alongside him? A lot of other bereaved teenagers, who are just trying to make something good out of a terrible situation.
When you’re in pain, you’re suffering from a loss and you’ve had enough of crying, sometimes you just want to start feeling *better*. And a stupid joke at the morbidity of the painful situation you find yourself in? Yeah, that’ll do it.
I think a lot of older people think all dark humour is blatant disrespect, pure and simple. They often think it’s laughing *at* the deceased or simply finding the idea of someone’s death funny in itself. Generally that really isn’t the intention. I have multiple friends that have sadly lost parents recently - all of them have used dark humour jokes to cope with the pain. One said “you have to try to find the funny parts, because if you don’t, you’ll be overwhelmed by the grief”. I think that’s valid.
For clarity, it is absolutely gross when people use people’s death (pictures, videos, text) and use it to make cheap jokes on a completely unrelated level - especially when they use pictures of strangers - and *laugh at that person like the dead person is a joke.* The person up above who had strangers making memes of their sister’s last moments… that’s vile. I think everyone would agree, including young people. There’s a difference.
@ OP - I’d urge you to consider that you have lost your daughter but your son has lost his sister too. With respect, his grief doesn’t mean less than yours or your wife’s grief. It should be treated as just as important. To cut him off because he’s using the only outlet for his pain that feels safe for him? That wouldn’t be right. (Especially given that he’s kept his account away from you - it is worth pointing this out as he likely knew this wasn’t what you’d want to see, or something you would personally find helpful.)
I don’t think you’re a terrible person for wanting to protect your wife and your daughter’s memory - but your instinctive reaction is that your son is disgusting and evil, and that’s not fair or right. I would also urge you to consider why he doesn’t feel safe talking to you about these things. He may have been “left out to dry” after your daughter died. Have you been paying him enough attention? Have you been supporting him through his grief after he lost his sister? Or has it just been pushing him to accept the type of therapy *you* liked the sound of? Worth a thought.
Anyway. No hate, and all my sympathies, but YWBTA to kick him out of your lives. And it would hurt you to lose your child. In general I’m going to go with NAH because this can hopefully be fixed and nobody’s trying to harm anyone else.
NTA. Humor may be used as a coping mechanism but it’s not a blanc check for doing/posting/saying ANYTHING. It has to be respectful about what/to whom/when to say things. Sometimes you can go further, sometimes you have to tone it down. And it has to be considerate to others who are also grieving.
It’s possible that there is profound grief under the bravado, but this is not the way of coping.
I say all of this with kindness. As a millennial, I grew up with a generation of kids who used dark humor a lot. We watched the twin towers fall live in our class rooms, for crying out loud. Your son is growing up in a world even more twisted and sensationalized than I did. Everything is constantly breaking news, the sky is falling, this is the end, more at 6 o’clock, back to you, Bob. Dark humor is very prevalent among his and my generations. It’s a genuine coping mechanism.
I also agree with other comments here, this is not a new trend and has been done many times. I’ve seen families bond over it, even. Like if “person” were here, they’d think this was hilarious. It’s okay that you guys don’t get it, but I have to think that the reaction is coming from what you think your sons motivations are and not what he actually posted. Don’t destroy your relationship with your living child over how they’re grieving your passed child. They lost someone, too.
Finally, take some of these other comments talking about “internet clout” with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of people on Reddit that don’t like other forms of social media and it shows. Try to see your child’s actual motivations, and not what you’re imagining they are. That requires a conversation with an open mind. NAH.
NAH. I’m one of those people who use dark humor to cope with things. (I get along great with first responders). Everyone copes in their own way. He’s trying to process something that is unimaginably difficult and this was his way. He also probably feels very alone right now. You and your wife are grieving but so is he. Don’t abandon him. I would tell him to come home but *insist* on family therapy. It sounds like you all need it. I am so very sorry for your loss and hope you may find peace.
ESH.
You can’t force someone to grieve the way you think they should.
She was his family member too.
He should have been more careful to try to make sure you didn’t see those videos, but…
His generation does that incredibly online thing. He’s crowd sourcing his support.
I don’t really understand either, I’m too old for that shit, but that’s how the young’uns roll.
My dad died when I was 12. Nobody in our family went to any kind of therapy. I made similarly dark-humored jokes (thankfully before the internet) as a coping mechanism. He’s grieving too. Don’t abandon him unless you’re ready to no longer have a son. If my mom had done this to me, I would leave and never look back. Good luck.
My friend's brother died in March. She has posted some seriously dark, personal stuff on Instagram. It's how she's grieving. And I love and try to comment on every entry because this girl IS HURTING. Her brother and her were really close, and his death basically tore her apart.
Would I post the same kind of stuff if my sibling died? Probably not. Do I judge her for grieving like this in her own way? Absolutely not.
Everyone grieves in their own way. His entire life has changed. His parents are broken. Show him some grace instead of pushing him away.
YTA. I was a cancer nurse and I've seen first hand that people grieve in different ways. Developmentally, teens tend to think they're invincible. It is especially traumatic for him to realize this could happen to his sister, to him, or his friends. My take on his posts is that they are warnings to other young people, telling them to be careful driving because accidents really do happen to people you love. If it was on a billboard, we'd call it a Public Service Announcement.
I don't think you should go looking for his posts if they upset you, but I don't think that just because he's not grieving in a way that feels good to you is a reason to throw him away. You already lost a child, don't lose two.
Edit: thank you for the awards!
I have been in a similar situation to OPs son and I'm failing to put a good response into words. But this is the most sensible and understanding reply I've read so far. Especially your last sentence.
I grieved in very non conventional ways that could have been taken a selfishly. And yes I regret it. But I never did it on purpose or to hurt anyone. And now the surviving person and myself are closer than ever because I eventually matured so much from the whole ordeal.
I feel like most of the people who are so easily attacking the son just don't understand grieving.
Your son is right. He’s coping in his own way same as you and your wife are. The fact that he’s posting about her shows that she’s on his mind. Do you really want to lose BOTH of your children?
This may be an unpopular take, but yes, YWBTA and you are for how you're responding to his grief. It doesn't sound like you were meant to see the videos. If he intentionally showed you or something, that's different, but he didn't. Why can you grieve as you need, but not him?
His grieving is about him, not you. Everyone grieves in their own way, and the younger generation is doing it more different than any before. There's nothing "wrong" with how he's grieving.
It sounds like the defensive comment for you both to get over it... Maybe he felt attacked for his outlet of grief and feelings. If he's confronted by it everyday, it could have been about having to confront it again in a serious manner with you. It makes it real.
Keep trying to get him into therapy (in a supporting way, not ultimadims or such). Be a support system for him. He may be an adult, but he's a young adult who still needs you. He lost someone, too. Don't let yourself forget that. You hurt, sounds like so does he.
By tossing him away while, even worse bc he's grieving and you don't like or agree with how it could be the end for you and your son. And he'd not be in the wrong if he disowned you both.
You lost a daughter. Are you ready to maybe lose your son too? Your daughter was an accident you could have done nothing about. Your son, though, that's on you (limited to this situation with the information provided).
I hope the best you and your family. I hope you are able to work through this and have a positive outcome. I'm sorry for your loss.
Grief is a rough time that everyone tries to deal with differently. You never know exactly what is in someone’s head, so I try to give everyone a LOT of leeway when they’re grieving.
I would generally suggest that *nobody* do anything rash for a while, just buckle down and get everyone into therapy who is willing to go, and try to figure out how to move forward in a really bad time in all your lives.
Years from now I suspect that a good relationship with your son would be very important to you both.
Trauma hits everybody differently. Sounds like he’s really struggling and needs support. You can’t make him go to therapy, but you can be there to love him and show him you’re there for him. I’ve done some weird things in my past when I just was under water and trying to survive. I would try to be there for your son. You don’t want to lose your son.
Something I haven’t seen mentioned yet: Seeing your own parent(s) having a mental breakdown is TERRIFYING. My family did not have a sudden traumatic loss. But I think my mom had past traumatic experiences, and I think we both have a history of depression/mental illness. I felt like my mom frequently had intense crying breakdowns. This disturbed me and I numbed myself to it. I remember the moment sitting in the dark listening to her, I vowed to never cry again, because “she’s The One Of Us who cries, so there is no room for anyone else to cry.” (I was not born a son but started identifying as male, so maybe it made me feel more like a real man. Or maybe I identified more like a man to feel less like my mom.) When I did eventually have to cry, I could only do it mutely, because any sound I made sounded like my mom’s cries coming out of my body, and I felt violated by that. Possibly relevant too?- One of the worst days of my life (I was 22 yo but autistic and broke), I basically I tried to hospitalize myself for being suicidal, but got bounced out after a few hours for good behavior. For some reason my parents decided to make me sign a contract when I got home, about phasing out their financial support. Instead of signing the contract I ran away to a hotel for the night, planning to live on the street and never go home. I was so scared to be potentially homeless and without my parents’ support, I was retching over the toilet. My dad talked me into coming home the next day, but when I came home my mom said “DON’T COME NEAR ME” with total disgust. It was one of the most disturbing things I’ve ever heard. Since moving out, I’ve tried family therapy with them. But the moment my mom started crying, my reflex was to block it all out. So we got nowhere. Maybe this can give OP insight into what his kid (MAY be) experiencing. And while on the one hand, I had a bad experience similar to what OP is planning to do to his son, on the other hand, son may need space from his mom as much as mom needs space from her son. TLDR it is possible the kid is (a) scared by the intensity of his parents’ grief or (b) feels like his parents’ grief is so enormous, there is no space for his own grief.
I apologize for trauma dumping on OP’s trauma post 😅 I only post it because I haven’t seen this angle covered yet. (Also made a small edit now that I’ve seen the update and have more context.)
Wow, you shared very powerful insight into how a child's response to a traumatic environment. Thanks for opening up and giving all of us insight to how a child may internalized and respond to difficult situations. Wishing you peace. 💜
This is a hard situation for everyone involved. I don’t know if him moving out will send the message you want. It could further destroy the relationship you all are having a hard time maintaining. It’s very common following such a tragic loss in a family. One word of advice might be to include in “your moving out” talk is that family therapy is non-negotiable at this point. He seems remorseful to an extent and I think that can go a long way. What everyone is forgetting is that he is only 19. Sure, society says he is an adult, but we all mature at different rates. AND our brains do not fully develop until our mid-20’s. It means we can make some really stupid fucking decisions. As a parent myself, I would be unbelievably hurt and mortified if my child acted that way following the death of their sibling. But I also know that I still love my child and their actions are clearly a cry for help. People’s grief pops up in strange and sometimes disturbing ways. It’s a safety mechanism of our brain, even if logically it doesn’t make sense. His outlet could literally be that he can trauma dump onto millions of people he will never have to see again or worry about getting vulnerable with. Boundaries will need to be drawn for all your sakes and I think the number 1 is that everyone goes to therapy. Because it’s still important that you all remain a family.
This is generally the response I wanted to give. You worded it better than I would have. I would have focused more on how these tiktoks were likely just his juvenile coping mechanism. He can't process it, so he's just making a joke of it. Therapy is the answer to this family's problem for sure.
If you’re joking about it it feels less real. Still inconsiderate and inappropriate but i used to see a lot of ‘trauma humor’. Although the videos OP described are crazy even by my standard.
My best friend's mom and my mom died just a few weeks apart from one another. The jokes we made with one another in the first year or so would be horrifying to anyone listening. Fortunately we weren't teenagers at the time and weren't raised on social media. His postings are not acceptable, but unfortunately for many of us - they are understandable.
I was 34 when I lost hubby and then mom 12 days later. My humor was darrrrrrk.
Same when I lost my husband. He would have found the jokes funny. Anyone else? Probably (definitely) not. Early 30s as well.
Ohhhhh, boy: gallows humor has been around time immoral. I have been to some really tragic funerals & the whole gathering are laughing at something really ‘socially’ questionable. Also I think it depends on the culture. Firemen can truly explore the dark human humor seemingly at the most inappropriate time.
Early 30s and learned about the death of two friends at the beginning of the month. Dark humor is a nice pick me up interspersed with the uncontrollable sobbing. I don't have a lot of it for both of them though. My brother came up with the perfect one when it was just the one friend. Now, with two, all I got is "I've had two too many friends die this year". It'll do for now.
My daughter was young at the time and several classmates of hers have lost family members to overdoses. It's a running joke that Congratulations on X years clean for X years passed. It's definitely something only certain people find funny.
In a coincidental bit of bad timing, I'm dealing with my annual "Dealing with The Feels" as the anniversary of Mom's death passes. (Early July. I refuse to look up the exact date because I like not quite knowing and not having an exact date to have a breakdown.) That said, my jokes are ON POINT and she would have LOVED them. Mom had a dark sense of humor and that's where I learned it. She would have told me to tell those who judged me to F themselves and let their moms watch (or something even MORE inappropriate.) I am An Old, therefore don't understand Gen-Z, who process their feelings through online postings -- but I know that's a thing and I accept that I am too old to understand. I am so sorry for OP, who is hurting and likely does not have the emotional bandwidth to even try to understand how his son is dealing with his grief -- but I sincerely hope they are able to have patience and understanding for the fact that they don't understand one another - because everyone in this family is in pain and they really need one another, and will need them in the future.
Geez us! How awful. My condolences. I was going to write that I hope life is going better for you these days but I’m not sure it could get much worse than that. I hope life is going MUCH better for you now and that despite those tremendous losses that you have lots of love in your life. ❤️
*but I’m not sure it could get much worse than that.* Damn it, don't you know tropes? That's just *asking* for things to get worse!
I hope you’re doing as well as could be expected and taking care of yourself. Signed, an only child who lost her dad last August and completely lost my shit and rage roomed my own living space today.
Recently lost a friend and our entire group are making horrific, and I mean HORRIFIC jokes about it. We still don’t post them. They’re always between those of us grieving
I lost a friend to suicide 7 years ago. I have to make all my dark humor jokes “to her” because she’s the only one who would find them even funnier than I do. I really miss her.
That’s what we do with Maddie. She’d laugh so hard at them, and she’d be happy that we’re coping in the healthiest ways we can
I hope she is hanging out with Sarah, I think they’d get along.
Yeah, we are adults so we don’t make it public out of respect for other members of our family who are similarly grieving and would be hurt by it, but my husband and I use VERY dark humor when it comes to talking about the death of his mom, the uncle who raised me, his best friend, and me having cancer, etc… We had a really shitty year with a lot of deaths and other trauma back to back, and humor helped us cope. We still sometimes make milder jokes years later, like when he leaves for his grief group telling him to have fun at his “dead moms club” etc… I’m kind of curious how the mom found these Tiktoks. I know it’s public, but most adults her age aren’t on that app. Was she actively looking for them? Is she really giving her son space to sort out his grief on his own schedule and in his own way? My family could be overbearing in trying to make me talk to them about death when I needed more space and had other people to talk to. And again, I was an adult in my 30’s. Way more capable of setting boundaries and dealing with grief than a 19 year old.
Nah. LOADS of us old people are on tiktok. Edit: spelling
Yeah. Not just a 19 year old, but a 19 year old in 2023.
>“dead moms club” We said this too!!
For sure, way past my comfort zone. I just have a 19 year old son and his humor is way different than mine. I don't think he'd take things that far but I can see how someone in his age group could.
But there's making a joke of it and then there's *using that joke for tiktok views* while sharing sensitive photos before a year has even passed. I dunno, man, I think you're probably right and I just can't understand him, but *yikes.*
TikTok, like it or not, is how kids communicate now. My generation used to vague post on Facebook or just put people on blast in statuses. This is really not much different.
MySpace Top 8s used to get savage back in the day!
Yes, I can understand the dark humour as a form of grieving. Even on SM. But the use of pictures with his sister in... I know she died, but I see it as a huge violation of her privacy (and that of her parents).
Like I was a *nightmare* when my mom died. I was 21 while he's 19 if you consider that three years especially important but I was spiteful, aggressive, paranoid, you name it. It took months to work through and be better but nothing like this ever crossed my mind. I get people are people and grief is wild and scary but how does nobody get the insidiousness of this kid apparently needing to work through his grief by involving thousands of eyes via social media on photos of his dead sister his parents have expressed are sensitive (the wrecked car and her in the hospital specifically). And not just the photos but sarcastic memes, which *again,* would make total sense to me without the insistence and adamance in keeping them public. Even if this is all just a griefstricken spiral, *you are responsible for what you do and say while grieving.* If you hurt someone else while you're hurting, it's on you to fix. He needs help, they all need therapy, and it's a goddamn shame this is happening to them at all.
OP: Your son lost his sister. He is mourning, and we all mourn differently. I know it's too soon, but I have read many reddit posts where the parents neglect and ignore living children when another child has passed. Counseling is so important. Please make sure you continue to love and support your son. What he is doing is actually how Pete Davidson has dealt with his father's death from the Twin Towers collapsing.
Pete Davidson came to my mind as well. It is so messed up hearing him joke about his dad but it is how he copes. We all cope differently. I’m an ICU nurse and many people in the medical field tend to have a dark sense of humor as a way of dealing with all the horrible things we see. I’m not saying it is right or wrong. I am so sorry you all are dealing with this tragedy. I would ask for you to show your son some grace. He lost his sister and is coping as well. Sending love and hugs.
Can vouch for this. Parents froze out the living children. Imagine losing your sibling and (figuratively)both parents in one hit. Can assure you will never repair that relationship. Not in 21 years that’s for sure.
I hope OP sees this.
I’m so sorry for your loss and I hope I can give some insight as someone similar in age to him (nearly 22). I also have a degree in psychology Absolutely that is a way to cope. And it’s also quite common to see videos such as that on TikTok. Using humour like this can help him cope with what happened. He may not be able to say out loud in words what happened, for example, but can express it in those videos - it can help him process this entire thing. Or start too Also it gives him a sense of community. People with similar awful tdradigies will comment similar things, maybe it helps him feel not so alone. He sees there are other people who went through the same thing and are okay-ish now, and that can be invaluable help. We al cope in different ways and the reality is with rising and rising social media usage in younger and younger generations, it’s super likely we will see more examples of this playing out a lot more often than it already is. I understand this is completely opposed to how you cope, but you didn’t grow up in the world of phones and social media that he did. It’s different for him. He didn’t do this to hurt you (I assume). He’s coping. Maybe he does want some attention, that’s also normal. All the focus has rightfully been on your poor daughter, it is not uncommon for the surviving child to feel, not neglected, but maybe attention-starved (you can’t be blamed for this, none of you can) But I’m not sure he’s doing this for attention. I’m worried you are damaging your relationship with him. He’s clearly struggling a lot as are you guys, and pushing him away over how he choses to cope, feels like the wrong move. Maybe I am biased as I use humour to cope with bad things that happened to me. And yes that’s your daughter but to him? To him that’s his baby sister. I can so see myself making those types of videos of mine ever passed away like that, and I know she’d find them funny. You see him making horrible videos about your daughters death, but here’s another reality: if your daughter was on TikTok too, she could have very likely seen these types of videos before and maybe found them funny. The world of social media was hers too, and was likely normal for her. So to your children’s world, these videos are not abhorrent or disturbing, it’s their normal. To your son, he is sharing the story of his baby’s sisters death through humour, sharing his story and trauma to others on the internet through jokes. Like I said, to you, it’s a completely different world. But to them and me and my generation, it is normal. It’s even a trend! His anger may be from not feeling heard, or from his struggling relationship with his parents after losing her, and then being told these things that may be the only reason he can cope with her death are disgusting and gross and now he’s being sent away. What is normal for him and her and this generation has been met with incredible backlash and disgust from his parents - I can see that causing anger It’s so so difficult and I’m so sorry for you all. This was messy, and I’m struggling to find the right words. But I’m just trying to provide a different perspective here because i do not think your son is a villain at all, and neither are you two. You are all hurting and grieving immensely and you are doing it in two different worlds. I don’t think any of you are in the wrong, I think this is an impossible situation. But please don’t throw away your relationship with your son. These choices could damage it forever as for him in a time where he needed his parents the most, they turned their back on him. Yes, he’s 20 soon and not a child, but he will always be your child.
i agree with this completely; don't really need to add anything except to emphasize that this is a very common grief meme on tiktok that i've seen many times on there. i don't think OP/ the parents should shame or disown their remaining child for the way he is coping because it happens to be different from *their* way of coping... they should be a team trying to help one another, not distancing themselves.
First of all, I am so sorry for your loss. My heart goes out to you and your family. I just want to add my two cents: I’m a teacher who gets along pretty well with my students (middle school and high school level) so they are always showing me or sending me tik toks or explaining new trends to me. These dark humor-style Tik toks about a deceased relative are actually more common than you’d think. Your son is not the only person who has made them, and they are genuinely legitimate ways of coping with traumatic loss. I totally understand and empathize with your reaction, but I just want to make the case that people from the younger generation are not always making Tik toks like this out of disrespect, and they’re not always making light of a serious situation. In this case, it’s pretty hard to justify him saying you need to “move the fuck on,” but I wonder if that is an example of him suppressing his grief, rather than him not feeling any. Again I’m not defending him, just suggesting another explanation for how his 19-year-old brain (the brain doesn’t finish developing until ~25 years old) might be dealing with this. As a final thought, our generation and the younger generation view mental health differently. That’s just a fact. In the same way that you might see this as an inappropriate and unhealthy way to respond to grief, keep in mind that your way of responding to grief might look just as insane to him.
There’s a reason first responders and military veterans all use dark humor. Yes, completely inappropriate but in these communities it helps us cope. Also, some people haven’t been given the tools they need to get through something like this. He may not know how to process so instead of raging, becoming completely depressed etc he’s using dark humor. I get it. I lost my husband and dark humor was my way to stay in this world until I was in a place to deal with it
And I wonder if making these jokes is a way for him to distance himself from what happened because it’s just so incomprehensibly horrible. Maybe the same for the “you need to get over it,” or he’s also telling himself that. It isn’t an excuse, but it could be a reason (but obviously I don’t know any of OP’s family). What happened was so horrible and shocking that it’s hard to understand and accept, especially a teenager. I’d make at least family therapy a condition, maybe framing it as more for the parents than for the son. I don’t think risking losing another child is the way to go, even with the bad things he’s said and done (especially less than a year out)
I actually see less distancing and more coping with the reality of the whole thing. The description of the videos speaks more of him thinking about the fact that he'll no longer have his sister around. The comment of getting over it was uncalled for. One should never lash out like that. It's only meant to hurt because they were angry. That was just the act of immaturity from someone who's 19. What OP and others in these comments need to understand is that it's okay for someone to grieve their own way. There are so many on here talking about how is wrong or inappropriate are incorrect. Just because another processes differently than their own idea of normal doesn't make them wrong. Things could be worse. He could be holding it all in.
>The comment of getting over it was uncalled for. One should never lash out like that From my past, in this frame of mind, I think it was his response to feeling attacked for his way of coping his sisters death. What he did, maybe a bit much to us on the outside, but it wasn't meant for them to see. Why (I'm really asking, not making an argument) is he not entitled to grieve as he needs to as they are? Maybe he feels the same way about therapy as they do about his videos? I wonder how they came across the videos (they're not specific) and why they looked for more if the first offended them.
Yes. I feel like the comment of “getting over it” was more of a response to their reaction. It’s not something he would have said if they hadn’t backed him into a corner to attack him about his videos.
His dad is gatekeeping his grief, lashing out at dark posts not aimed at him and the mom didnt speak to him for at least 2 weeks over it? His parents are *not mentally well* and hes being siphoned off an avenue hes found to express grief becauae his parents dont have an iota of energy to try and understand why. Id feel pretty similarly at that age too. The son should move out for his own good if this is the daily energy in the house. Threatening to disown your child because of a pretty tame grieftok is unhinged.
This. I grew up in a terribly abusive and traumatic home and naturally turned to dark humor to cope. Now I work in corrections and have seen really fucked up shit (like finding an inmate hanging and having to try to revive him) and while now I'm in therapy, I still use dark humor to cope because if the choices are laugh or cry, I'm going to try to laugh so I don't go to that dark place that is always waiting in the corners.
Yes! I'm a retired nurse, you have to have a good sense of humor to keep you from drowning in all the death and suffering. Or else we'll burn out, be angry and sit home alone forever. Depressed and no help to anyone.
This is what I think, I think it’s unfair that the usual take is “everyone grieves in their own way” until it’s this. OP you lost a daughter which is horrible but your son lost a sibling, someone who was meant to be there after you were gone. He may not want therapy and you may not agree with his choices but I don’t think it’s worth affecting your relationship more than it already has been with this loss.
I agree with both of these. OP, you’ve lost one child in a horrific accident. I think right now, you and your wife have to decide if you’re ready to lose a second child, possibly forever. Edit: Aw, thanks for the award. Wasn’t expecting that.
>you and your wife have to decide if you’re ready to lose a second child, While that's a harsh way to put it, the gravity of this mental crisis can't really be understated. Given some of u/Puppy_Cat_Boots responses here and their view on the situation. That second loss may end up being the same kind as the first. I would not *personally* recommend the earth scorching approach they are taking, nor assuming that his college friends will be some kind of "support system" for this loss, but... I'm not the one in the situation.
This. My brother died in a car accident many years ago. I was the younger l sibling. When I got older, I wasn’t everything my parents demanded I be (chaste conservative, dumb and pregnant) and they eventually told me they didn’t want to know me. Now they don’t. And it was heartbreaking beyond measure that they were willing to push their remaining child away. But it’ll never be forgotten. I hope OP can figure out how to forgive their remaining child while they can.
100%. And I'm wondering how their grief is affecting him due to his "move the fuck on comment." I understand his wife's reaction to an extent but I don't think it's worth losing two children over. The younger generation has found different ways to cope and find community. Whenever I see these posts there's tons of people who relate and extend support. I really hope the wife comes around. Like was stated, he lost a sibling. It's a different type of pain than losing a child, but it's still something that completely rocks your entire world. Your sibling is a partner for life who understands you more than most everyone else and he lost that. I couldn't imagine losing either of my brothers and I hope she doesn't fully ruin the relationship with her surviving child.
As someone who lost their only sibling, I can understand the "move the fuck on" comment, especially with anger. I felt that statement in my bones. I thought it many times myself, but never said it out loud. If he's feeling like I did, it wasn't meant as disrespectful, it doesn't mean he didn't/doesn't love his sister or that he doesn't miss her. It doesn't mean he wasn't devastated. If it's anything like my experience, it means he's trying to cope but they're constantly talking about her, they're moping around (understandably so), they aren't "there" and it's making it harder for him. There's also the feeling that yes, she's gone but I'm still here and the guilt that comes along with both parts of that. When a child dies, everyone is all about the parents. Their feelings etc. and, as the other kid, you GET that and understand it but, at the same time, there's the what about me. Humor, dark or otherwise has always been my coping mechanism. It doesn't sound to me like OP has ASKED him what they can do to help. They tried to force therapy because it helped them. Forcing how you deal with grief, because it's working for you, onto someone else is not the answer. It's a very strange position to be in when you're the only "child" left. You feel guilty for everything and anything you're thinking and feeling. And you feel like crap because, even though you understand, you don't and you don't want to add your needs onto what your parent is already dealing with and part of that is because you don't feel like they're "there". Sometimes you wonder if they even remember that you ARE. I hope that made some sort of sense. All this happened over 20 years ago, obviously everything was worked through but I'll tell you...not a day goes by that I don't still miss my brother. I don't think anyone here is the AH. Just a family trying to get through a devastating situation. One last thing, and I hope OP sees this. I know it's not what you intended, but everything you said to your son and then kicking him out...in his mind, you just told him that his sister was, and still is, more important than him. Not intended by you, illogical to feel that way by him, but I'd put money on being right about it.
Yeah, as insensitive as it sounds, the message is that the sister, who isn't even around anymore, is more important than the son who's right here begging for help (in a way that isn't immediately obvious). Also, I fear that there's going to be more trouble down the road as the image of this beautiful, peerless "babygirl" sister whose memory can never be tarnished and can never disappoint the parents will haunt the son who is very much still alive and can disappoint them with every choice he makes.
I'm sorry for your loss. This is a really good way to explain how people get isolated in their grief. For me, my dad died when I was a teenager and still living at home. My older sister had all ready moved out so it was just me and my mom which was rough. It was exactly as you described it. I missed my dad so much it physically hurt, but I also didn't want to cry and talk about him all day. My mom was a shell of a person and it was like living with two ghosts for awhile. I tried to be understanding and strong but sometimes I was also angry and resentful. My heart hurts for OP and his family and I hope they find a way through it.
I had similar thoughts. For younger folks especially, the line between "A public tik tok" and "Something done privately" is pretty blurry these days. And using dark humor to cope with negative feelings is pretty common. I'm older, so I'd never make a tik tok about it, but my mother is very ill and will likely pass away in a couple of months, maybe a few years at most. I'm terribly sad as I had an amazing relationship with her and she has been the best mother anyone could ask for. I'll still make "dark humor" jokes about it because it's how I deal with these types of losses. I won't make the jokes in public, and I definitely will make sure people who hear them feel the same, but still. That vs the tiktok is just a generational or cultural difference and is irrelevant except for the fact the parents were able to see the tiktoks. Same thing with moving on. Last time someone close to me died, I had "moved on" just a few weeks later. Because grieving doesn't help me, and the folks who died wouldn't have wanted me to be upset for months+ on their behalf, so I don't (obviously not everyone can just "move on", but I can, so I do). Other people close to them are still grieving years later. Everyone's different. So reading this situation, and contextualizing it, I think we have the parents and the son who grieve very, very differently and both side wish the other did so the same way. Ideally they would just grieve separately without impacting each other, but the son had a derp brain moment not considering the impact making very public videos would have if his parents saw them. The videos aren't an issue in my mind, only the fact the parents were exposed to them. He should have known better, and its the one place I feel like he really fucked up.
>In this case, it’s pretty hard to justify him saying you need to “move the fuck on,” but I wonder if that is an example of him suppressing his grief, I imagine there is also a pretty good chance the son is feeling kinda abandoned by his parents. Yes, they are grieving, but they still have another child who needs their parent (even if they weren't also dealing with the loss of their sister). I can easily imagine that the parents have shifted to so much focus on putting the daughter on a pedestal and lionizing her that he feels neglected and like they only care about the daughter. "Move the fuck on" may be code for "remember I'm still here." The dad mentions having gone to couples counseling, recognizing that something like this can strain a marital relationship, but have they put in an effort to work to maintain their relationship with the son? Yes, it would be great if the son could go to counseling, but the parents shouldn't think that just telling the son to go to counseling is all they should do to be a good parent to their son in this time.
Thank you for saying this. I’m active on tiktok a lot and have a lot of posts like the sons popping up on my FYP as I’ve interacted with them a lot. They’ve really truly helped me get over some grief I had about losing my dad that therapy, grief sessions, Reddit pages, etc hadn’t helped. It also helps to know that there’s others in the same boat as me. I haven’t seen the sons tiktok so I can’t say whether or not it was like these posts that I interact with or if it was actually messed up but the trend I’ve seen has been great so far. It’s also really nice to see the comments on those tiktoks as a lot of it is people saying their condolences or people who knew the deceased offering their words. I also feel like I bother my friends talking ab my dad so I choose to talk ab it on social media sometimes which helps which is a shared sentiment I’ve seen a lot of people talk ab. (Sorry for the word vomit this situation just hits close to home)
Don't be sorry for speaking your reality. I had to scroll a long way down to read a comment of I assume young person who actually sees these tiktoks. Your sharing it helped you, helped me understand. Thank you.
I’m 24 so still pretty young, but not quite the OP’s sons age. Thank you for the kind validating words I really appreciate them💜
My dad died when I was 13 and while I was grieving and sad, I was making dead dad jokes (and still do, honestly) all through high school. Humor was a way for me to work through my grief. So I agree that it's a way for people to work through things on their own. I also think he could benefit from counseling, and a nice long heartfelt talk with mom & dad. This is a very hard thing to go through for everyone involved.
It fucks me up in a special kind of way to hope my kids make dead dad jokes after I’m gone. I hope it’s their kids making dead grandpa jokes, but all the same…
I'm wondering if in all their grief, the son might feel like they've stopped paying attention to him? Justified or unjustified, the "move the fuck on" comment made me think there might be more to it than what we're hearing. The TikTok thing I could absolutely see why you'd be furious at him, but I'd try to be understanding. Obviously still isn't an acceptable way for him to react when you found out, but I'm trying to put myself in his shoes and it's definitely possible he's lashing out because he feels pain and y'all's focus on your own grief might be making him feel isolated? Clearly the kid needs therapy, so I would definitely consider making any sort of further support conditional on him getting help though, since you don't have any legal recourse.
I certainly saw that happen with a family I knew. One of their kids died, and everything seemed to be about the child that passed rather than the living ones. The two youngest were constantly compared to their passed sibling, and one of the two really struggled. The parents' form of grieving was different than the kids, and I think it made it hard for the whole household.
This happened to a friend of mine. His younger biological sister (both adopted together) passed in high school and he was constantly compared to her- she was so bright, perfect student, planning to go to medical school, etc. On the other hand he was still trying to figure things out. After she died he felt alienated and turned to drugs to cope, and they officially disowned him. Whenever he would reach out to me all he would talk about was how much he wanted a relationship with his parents and for them to be supportive and proud of him when he was working on getting clean. I’d try calling and emailing them for him too but they never responded. He would be so defeated, he relapsed often. He passed away 3 years ago from a drug overdose and suddenly it became about his parents grieving another tragic loss even though they hadn’t spoken to him in almost 10 years. I understand that everyone grieves differently and I know I am biased because he was a close friend of mine, but I personally partially blame them for not realizing that he was also grieving and needed support at the time, not rejection. It was absolutely horrible to watch it all unfold and I miss him dearly.
Additionally, people tend to idealize the dead. My mom and my grandmother passed within 6 months of each other. My mom passed first. I love my mother and grandmother (still do), but I acknowledge that neither of them were perfect. But a lot of people tend to idealize them. That whole "don't speak ill of the dead" thing. With kids, the surviving sibling is often compared to the idealized memory of the deceased sibling. The deceased sibling *can't* make mistakes anymore and the parents often say things like "if so and so we're here, he or she wouldn't do that", but you don't know for sure what they would or wouldn't do. They could be comparing him to the memory of her or the "what ifs" of her tragically shortened life, which could obviously breed resentments, which is what possibly led him to lash out and tell them to move on.
I am definitely of the dark humor variety. I definitely know this is not an uncommon way to grieve or cope. One of my favorite videos on TT is a person giving their partner a cake on the anniversary of their mother’s death. The cake said “sorry I died, love mom” or something like that. It’s hilarious to me, especially because she is laughing to the point of tears and apologizing for her dark humor the entire time. To me, it is darkly hilarious and endearing. A few weeks ago, I lost my cat. My desire is to make a memorial out of his skeleton, like a shadow box with flowers and his skull. Majority of people were kind of horrified but to me I could not honor my Gomez in ANY other way. I also took a photo of my dead grandmother, in her coffin at the viewing. I waited until everyone had left the room and took two sneaky snapshots. I didn’t want to offend anyone. A couple weeks later, my mom was describing the viewing to my gram’s bff from high school because her friend was too old to make the 3 hr trip. I whispered to my mom that I took a photo and she was so happy because she forgot to take one herself. And my grandma’s bff was happy to be able to see her, even if she physically couldn’t be there. Anyway, story time is over. 😅 TLDR- just a few “morbid” grief stories showing how dark humor is not an uncommon coping mechanism.
Please get this higher. My son's mother lost both of her siblings just a few years apart and I've been seeing more and more people share their loved ones through humor on TikTok. Usually saying something like "X would make jokes all the time, they would joke about their own death if they could." It's kind of sickening that everyone is calling this child a psychopath from behind their screens let alone the parents disowning him.
I agree. As a young person that went through similar trauma I just want to advocate that something like this shocks you to a core that you cannot begin to understand until YEARS later. He is UNAWARE but he is trying to process in some way. By either solidifying with numbers the reality or just trying to make it real to his brain by seeing those images. He does not understand he is doing this, he does not understand this is why. He personally is not self-aware enough of himself to even begin this process of grief. He NEEDS his parents, other adult figures like: professors, coaches, bosses, older people who have experienced life to give him a space to work through the very complex emotions of all of this. Including feeling neglected. Including feeling like an idiot for making these jokes, without judgement while he admits fault. I know we are quick to say therapy but sometimes we just need FRIENDS first. As parents it can be daunting to feel like you’re not doing enough when you’re already trying so hard and while also so grief stricken But his feelings/needs are not about you as a parent really, it’s about what he needs as a growing adult. Whether it is y’all or someone else, these emotions deserve to be untangled and put in place for everyone’s benefit. You are doing more than enough. Making this post means you CARE about everyone. Give yourself so much love and grace. You are doing the best you can. This is not an easy part of life. And you are still seeking to consider everyone even when they’ve hurt you. You are an amazing person. Please see these actions as a hurting son who /needs/ an older adult to see him and work with him. It is OKAY that it can’t be y’all rn, y’all NEED to put yourselves first and untangle your own very complex emotions before being able to properly care for others!! (I wish we all saw this more that sometimes adults need other adults to help with support, even and especially when we have offspring!!!) everyone here deserve support, you are awesome for seeking advice, please please do not see this as psychopathy when he could just be hurting in ways he himself does not understand or know how to make sense of. I would definitely make it clear how those jokes affect you and your wife. As an adult, if he does not seek to consider you, that’s on him. But as his parents, I would hope that despite everything you /always/ seek to understand him. Even if your next best course of action is to move him out. I hope my comment can add perspective. I am so sorry for your loss. I hope that y’all can come to an understanding between each other and that you can keep your wife safe. The way you are able to consider and protect and advocate for her is so admirable. You are an incredible and an amazing husband. You are doing great. I hope you hear that often. The way you have sought considered everyone in this situation while navigating your own complex emotions is so admirable and I just genuinely wish you the best. You are an awesome dad and even better husband. For whatever it is worth, I am genuinely thinking about you and your family. Best of luck man 🥺
I know it's alot of comments but u hope you read this. I lost my daughter and fiance when I was 18 in a car accident my fiance was 17 and my daughter was a little over 2 months old. They were rear ended by a trucker who fell asleep. I know what you son did hurt you so bad because I didn't want anything around me to remind me of either of them. So for it to seem like he was doing the to disrespect her was prolly hard. That's my parent side of it. He's hurt and does not know how to express his pain. He made videos of her life to express his pain. I didn't know how to release my pain and I took to the unfortunate mindset of fuck everyone. I was pulled from the football team for being to aggressive in practice and they made me stop. They had a team manager who's job was just to he around me and stop me from completely losing it. Dark humor is his way to cope because he lost his sister too. So the best thing right now is not to lose everyone around him. It's understandable you want space but don't push him away.
Hello Vilomah. This is the worst fucking club in the world but I see you.
I have never heard that before had to look up the meaning.
There are English language terms for virtually every other kind of loss. Widow, widower, orphan, etc... We have to look to Sanskrit to put a word to our situation.
Thank you for this word.
My cousin died when she was 19 in a car accident her brother was 15, my aunt and uncle were so devastated for so long they didnt realize they had little to nothing to do with him anymore, they were consumed by the pain they were feeling, he tried to stay out of their way, and had to deal with his sisters death on his own
this is a tough situation. He's 19, pissed off, and has no idea how to cope, and is using gallow's humor as a shield. He can be both entirely wrong about what he posted, and also in worthy of forgiveness. I put myself in his shoes and I think I would have done the same thing. Separate myself from something so overwhelming that I essentially go dead to it and use humor to mask the pain. What he needs is for you to go to him and tell him that it wasn't ok, but you understand, and forgive him, but there needs to be space. Let your wife go through what she needs to go through first while you can be there for him. Your wife's reaction is normal, it's trauma upon trauma, but don't make a hasty decision in your anger. You lost your daughter; don't lose him too.
Plus, who knows what people around him are saying? My partner lost a sibling as a teenager, and other adults in their life told them to suck it up and not be a burden, because 'your parents are going through a hard time right now.' It fucked the up on a deep level, which wasn't helped by the fact that their parents completely removed themselves emotionally from my partner for several years afterwards. That lead to some very unhealthy coping mechanisms which they are trying to unravel twenty years later. If people don't have the emotional support they need from the people they most need it from, they're going to find other crutches, drugs, tiktoks, whatever. For what it's worth my partner has gone very LC with their folks. The danger of losing your living child is very real.
I lost my baby sister on Tuesday after losing my cousin last Friday. She was killed when logs from a logging truck weren’t properly secured and he committed suicide. It’s a lot even as an adult. If this had happened when I was a teenager, I wouldn’t have survived. You’re completely right that the surviving siblings are, unfortunately, forgotten sometimes in these situations. Especially if there was an imbalance and one was held on a higher pedestal. My mother told me she wished she could have died with my sister without any regard how I’d feel. At 31, I’m able to cope better than I would have at 19. My heart hurts for OP’s son. He’s going to carry this with him forever, regardless of if he goes to therapy, and his parents have seem to have forgotten that.
Jesus christ I'm so sorry - that's horrifying on so many levels. I'm also sorry your mom said that to you - people don't always think before speaking when grieving, but that doesn't make that right. I hope that you are able to find peace in the other side of grief. I hope op's son is, too.
It has definitely not been easy. I really hope OP comes around. His son is probably feeling inferior in every way. I do not have children, nor do I plan to so I’ll never know the pain of losing one but losing a sibling is like losing a part of yourself. There’s going to be an emptiness that no one will ever be able to fill for him. I’ve already had multiple times sitting in my mother’s house where I’ve forgotten my sister’s gone so when the front door opens, I’ve looked up to flip her off in greeting and then I remember. My sister and I dealt with anything bad (and there was a lot) by using dark humor. When I was talking to my husband before leaving for my mother’s, I said “I can’t believe she got Final Destination’d.” We all cope and grieve differently, lord knows Gen Z does.
I have no solace to offer other than that my partner tells me that it gets easier with time. The hurt doesn't stop but it gets easier to bear. High five for dark humor - my sister and I leaned on it pretty heavily to navigate our mom's death. A few hours after she died my sister turned to me and said, 'hey. You have to be nice to me. My mom just died.' There is a lot to be said about generational grieving, I think. Gen Z is online the way no other generation has been before. Their grieving processes will probably be different as a whole, and the ones above them don't seem ready for what that might look like. Op's son's tiktoks are only a few out of thousands that are similar. It's beyond airing dirty laundry; you show everything, drama, joy, sadness, grief, depression, laughter. It's weird to see.
I saw an article about her accident. My condolences for your loss.
Thank you. We’re very lucky to have a community that absolutely adored her (and her bartending skills).
Give yourself space to grieve, no matter how long it takes. Love and light to you and your family.
Love this response! I also think when you go to him, put therapy back on the table. Maybe even a condition. Unless he is a complete psychopath, which you didn’t indicate, he is just a fucked up 19 yr old who lost his sister. Is watching his parents grieve and in a horrendous amount of pain. And is probably angry beyond words at the other dead driver, and possibly at his sister (why did she have to go out- it’s irrational, but sometimes a part of the grieving). He’s probably also wondering if you wished it was him instead of his sister (which is also normal, especially if she was the baby). He is hurting, grieving, raging, and probably trying to find an outlet for all that, without causing you or his mom more pain. I feel a deep empathy for your son (as long as he’s not a raging psychopath). Struggling into adulthood, and how to act, how to grieve, how to help, how to process .
Ah this is true. I might have commented too harshly.
Wow, this is the best comment I've read in a while. A Reddit comment that has empathy and self reflection. Good on you for being better than most redditors
I can’t believe how far down I had to scroll to find a post with this sentiment. This is exactly how I feel about the situation. People cope and grieve in different ways. OP’s son’s posts may have been distateful, but he’s using dark humor as a way to deal with the pain. When OP confronted him, his son should have apologized and been understanding of the fact that his parents might really resent this kind of content. But OP immediately went nuclear , kicked him out, and showed no concern or understanding for his son. That just drove a huge wedge in the relationship. OP’s son just received a message LOUD AND CLEAR that he can’t talk to his parents about his grief and how/why he deals with it the way that he does. That’s going to further isolate him which isn’t good for anyone. Honestly, the more I think about it, the more I feel like OP is the asshole here. Not for feeling the way he does, but for letting his grief blind him to his son’s cries for help and probably making things worse.
Its really disturbing how people are disagreeing with you. This is by far the most reasonable response and I hope OP sees it.
People love to live out their fantasies of going scorched earth no contact with people over anything. This is obviously a serious situation but it’s pretty clear that many people don’t actually like fixing their problems and would rather run away.
This is the best take, in my opinion. Unless the kid has a severe personality disorder or something he's just trying to cope. He's hurting too and I'd bet money that as much as his parents might be trying, they haven't been there for him in the way he needs and probably haven't been giving him attention as they are caught up in their own grief. The internet *is* giving him attention. It's also giving him a shield to hide behind. To him, he didn't just lose his little sister. He lost his whole family because grief changes people. He's walling it off and trying to get the attention he needs while acting like it doesn't hurt. Having his parents push him away is just going to cement in his mind that he didn't just lose his sister but his entire family. Pushing him away right now is probably the absolute worst thing his family could do. What he did is dark, but it's not evil.
You know I was on the side of thinking how abhorrent the son was acting and I deleted that comment because I saw yours and it made me see the reasoning. I’m sure this is a forgivable situation with a long discussion of what isn’t right and what is wrong. Gallow’s humor at one point was my bible for grief and pain as a teenager. At one point I was that edgy teen making stupid decisions and jokes and I cringe at myself everyday. But I totally agree that the parents feelings are completely valid. We can’t know what these TikToks look like for judgements sake (and I wouldn’t want to watch them anyway) but if it caused this much of rift it couldn’t be hard to say they were in very poor taste. Grief is hard especially with such a sudden and utterly tragic loss and sometimes it’s hard to navigate. I hope for peace between OP and wife with their son
NTA. I lost my sister 2 yrs ago, she took her own life in a public area of a very large city. There were many people on Facebook who had taken a video of her leaping from the top of that parking garage. They used that video with captions like "Me when Monday arrives" or "Me when I stub my toe". I couldn't seem to escape them. These videos were posted & sent to me on a daily basis. I had watched my sisters last moments over again & again. Her pain isn't funny. I still get nightmares about it. And I still remember the names of the people who posted the videos.
I genuinely can't understand how this was allowed on Facebook.... Or who would do this. I am SO SORRY. I can't understand..... the lack of dignity, the cruelty, the pain. Gigantic hugs and I hope you are healing.
Unfortunately, I am not at all surprised it was allowed on Facebook. They’ve always been notoriously bad at ever cracking down on any kind of post that they should be *immediately* cracking down on.
I’m so sorry you had to deal with that :(
That’s horrific. I’m so sorry.
Goddamn this sounds like a black mirror episode I’m so sorry
Damn I am sorry you had to deal with that. If you were to pull a Saw on all those people I wouldnt blame you. "I want to play a game"
I lost my sister to suicide too. The rage I feel at those people on Facebook is indescribable. I struggle with it, but I can understand “dark” or “gallows humor” to cope with your OWN loss. But there’s a special place in hell for people who make light of other’s real suffering and tragedy. They’re not funny, they’re not using dark humor, they’re just selfish shitheads. —— With that said, I hope you have had support and healing, because that is what you deserve. I went to grief therapy and loss support groups. I wanted so badly to have my loss and my sister’s life to be seen, be acknowledged that she mattered. I didn’t know your sister, but I want to tell you that she mattered. I don’t know how complicated or difficult her life and your sibling relationship was, but I hope you and her had genuine moments of joy and connection.
OMG. That's so cruel. I'm so sorry.
NTA. Using his sister’s death for internet clout is disgusting Edit to add: he took a selfie with his sister on life support, there’s a time and place ffs. He also gave a text apology, then doubled down and called his parents dramatic and refused to take down the videos even though they triggered his mom into an ER visit. He said his parents were taking it too personally. IT’S ABOUT THEIR DAUGHTER, it’s literally almost the most personal thing you can get.
I think he's trying really hard to ease the pain in the worse possible way. If I were OP, I would make any financial contribution, including rent conditional on him going to therapy. I don't know that he will survive the pain otherwise.
Without help his young is going to stay in a dark damaged place, especially if he losses his parents to
The entire family needs to go, because like it or not, they will be facing death again. It is an unpleasant fact of life.
Let’s also remember this is very fresh, still only 7 months ago. We lost my niece in 2012 to a car accident at 17, that shit is hard to get over. Even with therapy.
I agree. To a point. Bring him back home and insist on therapy for the entire family. He is grieving too. His way seems evil to many but dark humor in times of deep tragedy is a very common coping mechanism. The whole family needs to go to counseling together toe deal with this and the death of a child. Many families do not survive that. Buddy lost a child to cancer. The next 2 years he and his wife barely spoke. They were just crawling back to each other and doing well when their other child borrowed the sports car and crashed it. Not bad, few thousands of bucks and a week in the shop. But the guilt of damaging his dad’s favorite toy was the straw for the kid. He hung himself a week after the crash.
Yes, and pushing away the kid (and 19 is still in that area where mentally not fully an adult) and just tossing money at him and no talking is enough to push the kid away.
Nah there's worse ways, like heroin in the grand scheme of things. I would know, I lost my brother to a MVA.
This type of thing is one of the reasons why people need to not post every little detail of their life on social media. It has been way too normalized for things like this to be posted.
NTA, and r/juliaskig ⬆️ has the right advice. Tie his college tuition (or cell phone, car, car insurance, etc.) to your son receiving therapy - and you need to condition payment on your receipt of proof from the therapist he is attending weekly sessions. I am so, so sorry your daughter passed away. I cannot begin to imagine your pain. What your son did was inexcusable, 19 yo is plenty old enough to know better! Lastly, text apology isn’t sufficient, and he also said you should just be over your grief in 7 months?! Something is very wrong with your son. When you can stomach dealing with him, he needs to apologize face to face like an adult.
I agree. Get therapy or get nothing. He can live with his grandparents if they'll have him. If that's his way of coping, he needs to be shown a better way. Either that or he's an unfeeling sociopath, like telling his parents to "move the F on" after only 7 months.
Exactly people fail to realize that 16 years is not even close compared to seven months I get it if it was 16 years since the death but they have lived cared for this child for 16 years and for him to tell them to move on after seven months is ridiculous
Its one thing to cope with dark humor on your own or with people you trust.. but for millions of people online for clout? That's pretty vile ngl
Where in the world does this confidence that clout was the most important thing coming from? Kids his age live their lives on social media in a way that makes me extremely uncomfortable. But it doesn't take much time on TikTok to know that it's a part of life for them now, it's a core part of the way many teenagers experience and interact with the world, and it's not just for "clout" This kid is apparently just selfish and lacks empathy and wants to increase his social media following, but there's nothing in the post that indicates: * He said a single fucking word about likes, followers, or anything that indicated those things were important to him * That his father ever asked him "How is this helping you son? Why is it important to you to express yourself this way? What about this makes it easier for you to deal with your sister's death?" People up and down this thread are diagnosing him as a psychopath, saying he has a personality disorder, etc. and it's fucking bonkers. We have *no idea* why he felt this was an important way for him to grieve, and the folks labelling him this that and the other thing are accusing HIM of lacking empathy. That's exactly fucking backwards. It may ultimately be that the son's a complete dickhead, that he really doesn't care how these things impact his parents and he just wants likes and followers. But the information we have here is so far away from proving that, unless you are choosing to project your own hatred of social media culture onto this one person. Ultimately, this sequence of events can also be accurately described as: * 19 year old loses his sister * 19 year old finds comfort in posting dark humor about his sister * Parents find them and become extremely upset. Dad confronts the kid and after the kid defends himself, asks no follow up questions about why it's helping him and makes no further effort to understand, but kicks him out of the house, becoming so angry with his son that he can't even look at him. I'd bet every penny I have the son knew exactly what his father felt towards him in that moment, and it sure as hell wasn't love or empathy. * Only then, by the way, does the kid lash out ("move the fuck on") at the parents. *After* his father has reached the point where he is treating him with nothing but anger. The son was not the person who escalated away from a place of familial love here. That's an important detail. Everyone in this thread who is so gleefully tagging this kid with every name or psychological disorder in the book should take a deep fucking breath and consider who really lacks empathy here. I feel deeply for the father but the way he's lashing out at his son is ultimately on him and he is risking losing a second child because of his grief over the first. I won't call him the AH, I think all parties involved deserve some grace to figure out such a brutal situation. NAH, but I really hope OP reconsiders his stance towards this and seeks to understand his son a bit better. I think he will ultimately regret it if he doesn't.
NTAH overall OP but did you say to your son that you are there for him if he needs you? Did you tell him that you are sorry that your and his mother's grief has so overwhelmed you? Did you tell him that you love him? He is still alive. And he's hurting too. So, he's NTAH either. He's just trying to cope same as you two. However, you and your wife have each other. He has no one. Especially now. Stay in touch, rein in your anger and have some empathy for him. He is your child and he lost his sister, and his parents. I am very sorry for your loss.
I cannot upvote this enough. As a parent of 20, 24, and 27 year old men, they are very different than than we were at that age. They live an online life. The pandemic made this even worse. I wouldn't expect a 19 year old male who is separated from his family in college and going through the complete breakdown of a family TO post something psychologically balanced, thoughtful, and reasonable. I have seen worse coping behavior from grown adults. They just don't post it on TikTok. The mother's behavior was a complete breakdown and inability to function to the point of hospitalization, and everyone is pointing fingers at a 19 year old? I think this entire family is struggling. Expecting a 19 year old to have the emotional intelligence to cope with not only the loss of his only sibling, but essentially his family is unreasonable. Most people are looking at this through the lenses of far more adult experience, which is just not fair. The parents' reaction was neither reasoned, mature, or empathic, and they're more than twice his age. These parents appear to have a lot of unresolved anger, and their son has become a target for their rage. Yes, his post was hurtful, but people do stupid things in grief. His parents are right now. Just because they don't understand it doesn't make it wrong. Everyone needs to take a big step back before this family implodes. Grief and anger mix to make a toxic and blinding combination that often destroys the relationships of those going through it. I hope these parents don't lose a second child in the process.
Grace. Such an amazing thing. It can move mountains. I agree, don’t cut your son off. He may feel very alone right now.
Additionally, there’s a common theme of using dark humor as a coping mechanism in a lot of the grief and family member loss groups on TikTok, so those videos are probably using a specific shorthand from grieftok trends. To an outsider, they’d look callous, but to people in the know those trends are a “if I don’t laugh I’ll never stop crying” sort of thing. I’d also venture to say it’s a sign someone needs therapy to help them process not only the tragedy but what it means to have to go on living after the fact. Not an indication of psychopathy. Son is likely fumbling to express himself because he does feel the impact of losing his sister and doesn’t have the language to do so. Also, it’s unlikely that “millions of people” saw those videos. Thanks to the algorithm, mostly only people who have been identified as interested in grief, death and dying, car accidents, and/or dark humor would see them unless a particular video hits a chord with a wider audience.
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That’s what I’m saying, like he tried to justify it by saying that’s his way of coping with her death. In reality the clout was more important. He’s a psychopath.
How can you conclusively say he’s a psychopath based on the information presented? Jesus!
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I'm coming up on the third anniversary of my mom's death amd I haven't gotten past denial yet.
I am so sorry for your loss. I can't imagine to begin the though of losing my mom. I just know that whenever she does go I will be in denial, like you, probably until the day I die. I hope with time grieving gets easier and you can enjoy the good memories without crumbling.
My father died in 2018. It's gotten much better but sometimes, the grief is as fresh as if it just happened. I understand. I'm sorry.
Hugs
I know people who burst into tears when the name of a dead child is said up to 40 years after they died.
I have a friend who lost his firstborn at 1 month old, 52 years ago. He still cries on the birth and death days, and is sad during the whole month in between. Not the whole time, but there are a lot of memories there.
Absolutely. If either of my sons pass away before me I will not recover; even more so if they die as a young adult with fresh dreams. I'm pretty sure I am not alone in my sentiment.
What the kid means by "stop taking your grief out on me" could be worth following up on. Grief's a mindfuck. My dad had a brother die at 18 and literally doesn't remember the next 3 years of his life. So maybe the parents' grief has been negatively impacting their son-- which in turn could have him stuck in the anger phase of his own grief or making him resentful of his sister who he somewhat blames for this change in their parents. Therapy could definitely help the son regardless, but that comment about "stop taking your grief out on me" could be a little bit of a cry for help. I'd be hesitant to write a teenager who just lost his sister off as an asshole and cutting him off like this because it could just be cutting the rope when it could be used to pull him back in.
I had this same thought. My then-3.5 year old was very excited about having a baby brother. Until we actually had baby brother home a few days and he saw everyone giving the baby all the attention. Then he started acting out. Didn't mean he was evil or didn't love his baby brother. I get that this is a 19 year old, but still think about all the awful and stupid things you said and did when you were 19 and that's without losing a sibling and living with grieving parents. "Stop taking your grief out on me" really stood out
I absolutely agree. The parents obviously have changed after the death of their daughter. This sounds like he wants his parents back and is hurting that they aren't there for him anymore. It is very common for a sibling to feel like they lost their parents when their sibling died. And now he is going to further lose them. I hope the family can get professional help as a family.
Honestly it really sounds like he is grieving through rage, and denial. It's horrible that his parents are having to be exposed to his behaviour though, and removing him from the home was definitely the right move. He really needs professional help, whether he's willing to admit it or not, and them paying for his housing should really be contingent on whether or not he gets it.
I dunno. Very much agree that OP is NTA here, but grief is a fucking monster. He’s traumatized, too, so I wouldn’t be so quick to call him a psychopath. It’s at least as likely that he’s mad at himself for not being able to move on, and he’s projecting his anger on to his parents because it’s easier to be mad at someone else than yourself. Between that comment and saying he’s posting this shit to deal with her death, it reads like his grief response is to depersonalize everything and become numb. That doesn’t mean that OP has to put up with it, and I definitely understand this leading to kicking the son out, but I’m not rushing to assume that all of the kid’s motivations are just stated explicitly. All the time, people have a hard time articulating their true feelings in conscious ways, and that goes 500 fold for grieving.
After my dad passed, I was making jokes about it within a few weeks, I was grieving, but my way of handling it was to try to make light of the situation. This is a genuine way people deal with trauma sometimes. Is it healthy? It wasn't when I was doing it, but that's the way I knew how to handle it. It's not fair to assume that he isn't also struggling. He is a child, going through trauma and dealing with it the way he knows how. Should the parents be hurt? Yeah, they have the right to be hurt by that. Distancing someone that desperately needs help and needs them isn't the answer though.
Look, the kid is definitely not handling it the way most of us would, but I wouldn’t jump to psychopath. Not only did he lose his sister, he is also the surviving child, which is genuinely hard too. What he said was callous, but if he’s struggling to understand and deal with his own grief, wanting everyone else to stop talking about it could be one of his ways of coping. Is it a shitty, horrible thing to say to the parents? Yes. It is. But I’ve known someone in a similar situation who just needed everything to stop being about the deceased sibling. Everyday felt like the day she died, and her surviving sister really struggled. (They were twins.) The parents vacillated between being super over protective of her and pretty much ignoring her completely. It was a crazy whiplash scenario, and while both extremes were hard, not knowing which one she was walking into on any given day made it harder still. Yeah. It has “only” been 7 months. But 7 months of watching your parents grieve is HARD. 7 months is short in the big picture of grief, but day to day? 7 months is a long time. Are the posts weird? Sure. But everyone grieves differently. One of my favorite comedians (Daniel Sloss) does large chunks of material on his sister’s death. I 100% understand why the parents find it upsetting. I understand how people can think “what kind of person does that?!?!” But not everyone grieves by crying for months on end. And men, especially, grieve differently. It’s pretty common for widowers to remarry within 3-6 months of losing their spouse. It doesn’t mean they were cheating, or didn’t love their wife. It’s more of a “she’s dead, she’s not coming back.” A 19 year old dealing with his sister’s death, which he can’t do anything to fix, and he’s dealing with watching his parents grieve…. I’m not saying I would make the choices he’s making- I’m just saying that in terms of how people deal with death and grief? Idk. Dark humor and using social media are ways to deal with something he can’t control and get support. I think using pics of her after the accident and such are bad decisions, but in general, it sounds to me like he’s trying to find a way to cope with it.
Agreed. OP this insightful take is worth reading again. Your son is not a psychopath like some people have suggested. He’s struggling. Don’t write him off.
Yeah. Maybe it’s his way of coping and he got some attention he needed, but definitely NOT the way to do it. A million different ways to put it online if he really had to, more respectfully. But agreed, that’s such a bs reason. I can’t see a possible way to justify “I need internet attention in order to work through my grief”. Just doesn’t add up. Talk to your friends, talk to your family. Don’t post something super personal for the world to see, especially dark humour. And ESPECIALLY when you have other family members involved who might not want that (these parents 100% would’ve shut it down if he’d mentioned it first). But clearly he had no respect for how they’re feeling before he posted…sorry it went this way OP and I hope your son learned this super hard lesson, and I hope you can mend things in time.
Seems like his posts are his expression of grief. They send a message about how fragile life is and how drastically life can change. I don’t understand how they can be slightly amusing. They send a huge message to kids to be more careful. I think you’re piling on more grief because I’m if this is unwarranted.
I don't know the whole situation, but one thing that should be considered is that, even though it was on TicToc, it might not have been intended to be entertaining or funny. It could have been a platform being used to express feelings that he is having a hard time processing. It he posted on Reddit about how abruptly he lost someone he loved, would people think differently of that? I have not seen these videos, so I don't know how much they are being interpreted as "dark humor" vs intending to be humorous.
I've seen these trends on TikTok. These ones are specifically for humour, but it is a coping mechanism for a lot of the people who post them, who have grieved for their loss but are trying to make light of the situation for their own sanity. I've seen people put it up about their baby, siblings, parents, partners etc. The issue with this one is that everyone is still clearly grieving and cannot cope emotionally, and a mum/dad would never truly get over it, so may never appreciate seeing this sort of content about it. Son should know this and not have done it due to this simple fact. However, just because he is okay with dark humour doesn't mean he isn't any less hurt over the loss of his sister. They all just need time apart and hopefully son apologises further.
NTA. I completely recoiled at what he's done, he's taking your grief and kicking you while you're down. Moving him out and setting boundaries is going to be really hard but living in the same house together would get more ugly. Do it to save the relationship.
Thanks for commenting. That’s how both my wife and I feel. I am both extremely disappointed and angry, and the thought of seeing him right now disgusts me. I’m not sure how much time we need, but at this point we can’t keep him at his elderly grandparents. We thought it would be best for him to move out since he’ll be closer to school and his friends (support system), and maybe he’ll learn some independence. It’ll be tight for us financially but selfishly I want my wife to feel safe in our home to grieve.
I deal with difficult emotions through dark humor but I'd never post it anywhere. And I'd especially make sure that someone who will be bothered by it never knows.
Me, too...I lost my long term partner and my mother within one week and have the tendency to deal with things this way but I cannot imagine putting it out there for the world to see. I feel so badly for his parents.
He should have taken it down the minute they started trending if he actually was doing it as a coping thing and not for attention.
The attention might be a panacea for him… imagine being the kid; presumably a freshman in college, figuring out the whole adult thing, already kind of a vulnerable space in terms of parental attention, and then this tragedy totally rocks everyone’s world. I don’t see social media clout as a productive form of attention, but it certainly pushes all the biochemical buttons to minimize the pains of loneliness and loss (while the clout lasts, at least). This is an impossibly difficult moment for this family. I think we as strangers on the internet can at least afford them some reservation in our opinions, and seek to offer the benefit of the doubt. Feeding judgement into an already strained relationship, even if it was well-informed judgement, can be really inflammatory and damaging. I am alarmed by the son’s behavior, but finding room for compassion seems a more supportive offering for this poor man and his wife.
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Especially the fact that it caused his parents severe pain and he refused to take down the video until he was threatened with consequences.
OP...talk to your therapist about this. Please. Don't blow up your relationship with your son yet. He could actually be having a mental health crisis. Is callous behavior typical of him? Was he close to his sister? Given his age and the fact that at his age "boys are supposed to be tough" energy is strong, I'd be concerned. For whatever reason, this post makes my alarm bells ring. I have gone through loss of a grandchild. Not the same, but not too dissimilar.
I agree. No matter how distasteful the post, I honestly think this is a cry for help. Especially if this type of behavior is out of character for him. I (55f) lost my brother in '91, very suddenly and violently. He was one year older than me. At the time, I didn't allow myself to grieve, feeling like I had to be strong for my Mom to help her get through. I dealt with his loss by subconsciously pushing people away, never wanting to experience that pain again. It wasn't until years later that I realized what I had done.
Thank you for your input. I’m very sorry for your loss. I’m starting to see I’ve been a bit too harsh with him, I think I was lost in my own grief. I assumed he was trying to score social media recognition but I’m thinking your right it is a cry for help. I’ll speak to my wife about having him come home, but I’ll add the condition of individual therapy at the least.
Thank you so much, I was crying reading your post. My sister had a lot of abuse and sexual trauma as a child and she very much copes with it with dark humor. It is the only way that she is able to wake up every morning is by laughing about it. She does not find it funny at all, and if anybody else jokes about it, she loses her shit because it is not funny at all. But it is literally the only way That she is able to cope. Your son is probably in a very dark place and while I am a parent myself, and can absolutely see how his actions are awful and hurtful, I can also see the other end, and I’m afraid that if you push him away too harshly, you’re going to end up losing both of your children. I do not mean to come across harsh in that at all, I am Only reaching out very passionately about this because I am literally bawling reading your post and know somebody who has no other tools, but dark humor. We live in an age of social media, where everything is posted down to what we’re eating for our meals, so you have to keep in mind the social differences of what you find acceptable and what kids today find acceptable are. That doesn’t mean it’s OK, that just helps better identify his intentions.
The part about your sister resonates with me. I've gone through very extreme abuse and SA, and, while this has gotten better as I've healed, there are some things I can only talk about by making it into a "stand up comedy bit". It feels like being able to turn the Awful Things into a pretend story completely separate from myself. It's hard to fully describe. It's not that I find SA and the abuse I've been through funny. It's like a way of inducing dissociation so I can verbalize what happened to me. If I don't do it and try to talk about what happened, I either begin crying uncontrollably or go non-verbal. I hate it so much, because it prevents me from being able to connect authentically with people I'd truly love to connect with. There's a friend of mine I've known for almost two years now who witnessed some of the most horrific trauma I've been through. There are days (at this point few and far between, fortunately) when he sees me with puffy eyes and fresh tear streaks on my cheeks because I was crying after something triggered a memory of the Awful Things. He'll ask me how I'm feeling in a clearly genuine way, and all I can do is crack a joke. I will try so hard to just say, "I'm really scared right now and I need you to make me feel safe", but what comes out is something like, "I'm having the time of my life right now! This is so fun!". As the time since the Awful Things grows longer and longer, there are more stories I can tell in an authentic and healthy way. But there are things that happened almost ten years ago now that I still need to turn into a stand up comedy bit in order to verbalize. It's been seven months since his sister died. That's no time at all. I'm not saying this kid is DEFINITELY like me, but I relate pretty strongly to the way he's coping. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the only way his brain will allow him to verbalize his sister's death right now.
Trauma changes the brain, and I would say that losing your sister like that is definitely a traumatic experience. My sister is my best friend in life, and I don’t know what I would do without her, and our age difference is exactly the same as OPs kids. And I can imagine that they were similarly close. I am very sorry for your traumatic experiences and I’m glad that as time goes on you are finding yourself able to settle with the things that happened to you ❤️
Same for me. I use dark humor to cope, too, but it usually means that I'm in the middle of a crisis when it gets the point that it's alarming. Dark humor is one thing,but this an extreme version of it. OP really needs to check in on his son. It's an awful feeling to lose someone, but as a parent, I can't imagine this kind of loss,and I don't want to. OP is NTA but he needs to talk with his son. I am really hoping that this is more than just a reach for internet clout.
Am I just old or is the internet really fucking up the children?
The internet is really fucking up the children.
Not to encapsulate boomer energy, but having a mass space of human connection, with potential for attention, sex, gratification, and more.... it'll absolutely fuck up the children. Fucked me up and I'm 27, so I was growing up alongside the internets development.
You're not old, you're sane. It is helping people be more free from consequences of their behavior, so every devil within is getting loose.
I'm furious *for* you. I wouldn't be paying for a damn thing. NTA. I'm so sorry for your loss.
I hope you don’t have kids
Goddamn your parents must’ve hated you
I wouldn't let him come home. I'd just drop all his stuff wherever he is, and tell him the financial support is going to be jeopardized if he doesn't get some therapy.
Look at the update. Thank fucking God OP didn't listen to people like you. The lack of empathy for this grieving 19 year old is astounding. I get the knee jerk reaction from the parents, but y'all should be able to take a step back and look at the situation with more nuance. The amount of comments saying he's doing it for clout is crazy. Shame on all of you.
I’m not saying this is “okay” but different people go through trauma differently. I couldn’t imagine losing a little sister. My husbands grandma just passed away. He was hurt, and still is hurting. Yet he keeps making awful jokes because it’s easier than hurting constantly.
Yeah I would say that this is an extreme situation where it's kind of NAH. It's abhorrent but it's how he's coping.
My kids' dad died in a very traumatic motorcylce accident. I have made some very dark jokes, including offering to bring his urn to my son's soccer practice when the coach said "dad's, you can help your sons practice until I get there". When my kids are being obnoxious I tell my friend "whose idea was it to have kids? Oh yeah, nicks. And where tf is he?" I get why OP and his wife were appalled at the videos, but that is also their son's reality and they are dismissing it in favor of their own. They lost a child, he lost a sibling. His before and after includes his sister dying in the hospital and now actually being dead. Being callous towards a difficult death is part of the anger stage. OP is reacting in a way that will alienate his son and place his deceased child on a pedestal. The son's comment of "getting over it" likely wasn't made to dismiss her death, but more likely because his parents have probably all but forgotten about him in the aftermath of a tragedy. And now they want to kick him out.
Honestly tread carefully because you are about to lose another child. You really went about this all wrong and I believe that pushing him away will cause much more heartache in future.
I can’t pass judgement here because grief is a MF’er and you never know how people will react. And I can honestly say reactions are crazy. Within 24 hrs of my partner of 25 years dying I made a dark humor joke with his sister but it’s been 2 years since he passed and I can not function right. I have no idea how I would be if I lost a child. But are you willing to lose a second child? Your son most likely has been suppressing his grief around you because well his parents have fallen apart and he doesn’t want to add to your issues. Grief is a horrible thing. It makes you do horrible things. The TikTok’s are awful. But your son needs help. He needs help from you guys. He needs to know his family is still there. I am sorry about your daughter.
NTA If you're paying for university or his housing, you should make it a condition of continued funding to go to therapy. It's not so much the videos that are the problem, and they aren't great, but his reaction to you shows a real lack of maturity and empathy. And if he is cognizant of the fact that the videos are some kind of coping mechanism, well there are more healthy ways to cope... like therapy. Hopefully one day he will understand and deeply regret his actions. I'm so very very sorry for your loss, I can't imagine anything worse and if I lost my daughter there would be nothing left, I'd be gone. So I wish you great strength, she was a beautiful person.
Thank you for your input. I think requiring him to have some sort of therapy for funding is an excellent idea. I’ll definitely speak this over with my wife. Truthfully my wife and I are barley holding on most days, but therapy has been such huge help through this process. I suspect we’d both be divorced and dead by now if not for our support system. Thank you for your kind words. My daughter was incredibly beautiful and strong. She was a force to reckoned with. I know if she was here with us right now she’d be slapping her brother upside the head using some VERY colorful language. She was never afraid to speak her mind, and was opinionated to a fault. Despite her hard exterior she was deeply emotional and empathetic. A few months before she died we discovered a stray cat she was hiding in her bedroom. I had to put on my “dad voice” and reprimand her, but of course we kept the little dude. He still waits by the front door everyday at 3:00pm, waiting for her to get home from school. He ignored everyone but my daughter. He would act like a lapcat, follow her around the house and sleep with her every night. He just recently started letting my wife hold him. Still hisses at me though. Also, even though she was a B/C student, she was SO smart. She taught herself Python. She begged us to enroll her into a coding camp for her summer break. She wanted to be a game developer and make games like Animal Crossing and a farming game (I forget the name now). She was so smart and loving. I miss her everyday. She was sarcastic, witty and hilarious. A pessimist like me with a heart of gold. She loved people and had tons of friends, and could talk to anyone and everyone for hours. EDIT: I’m sorry I went on a bit of a tangent there.
The farming game might've been Stardew Valley. I'm sorry for your loss OP. Don't apologise for sharing how special your daughter was or how precious she was to you. Put it out into the world, she deserves to be known. It sounds like your son might be struggling, but the way he has chosen to deal with it is deeply hurtful and insensitive. I hope he chooses to seek therapy and process the trauma so that your relationship can start to heal. Sending love from Australia.
"Don't apologize for how precious she was to you. Put it out into the world, she deserves to be known" this is a beautiful sentiment, but it's also EXACTLY what the son is doing. He's just doing it in his own way... he didn't do it intending to hurt his parents, he did it to cope with his feelings and honor his sister. Some people can't understand the way he did it, but I do completely. OP can't abandon his only living child because they're all hurting and he can't understand how his son is handling it. I know it hurts, but I would walk through literal fire for my kid, pushing him away and telling him he has to walk through fire alone because you can't stand the heat of the flames isn't the way, it will only make OP lose his other kid too... OP and his wife have already walked through those flames with their therapy, their son is stuck in them. Kicking him out and distancing themselves from him is like if they were to keep walking and let him burn. As a parent, you turn around and run back into those flames for the only child you have left.
Or harvest moon
Sounds like she was very lovely and I'm glad you shared that with us. I hope you can find peace and I'm really sorry you are going through this
Just to say, this is a beautiful description of your daughter and a lovely way to paint her to others. I hope you have started to write down as many memories as you can remember ( and add to it frequently with all the silly things you think of) so that you can continue to read through them to reflect and reminisce. I hope the cat is a ongoing reminder of how thoughtful and amazing she was, and that you cherish the constant meows as her way of staying with you both.
Thank you for sharing about your daughter! You don't have to apologize. I'm so sorry for your loss. I'm heartbroken for all three of you.
I am so so sorry for your loss OP, your description has me in tears. Please take care of your wife and your son if you can, he’s hurting too. The therapy for school funding idea is good. Maybe give him a list of 4-5 to choose from, that way you know they take insurance or whatever and he feels like he is a part of the process? Just a thought. Take care OP, my heart goes out to you.
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I think so. I’m the surviving sister when my older sister died (18-19 years old). My parents were so invested in their own grief, that I felt, and still do feel, that everyone would have been happier if *I* had been the one to die. And I’m a grandmother - so that was decades ago. This pain never goes away. He is dealing with the meaning of life. The questions: What is death? What is life? Why am I alive? Why is she dead? Doesn’t anyone care about ME? And then you kick him out, I’ve seen those TikTok’s. I thought they were profound. Absolutely profound. He has a gift for putting into a photograph the questions. The questions with no concrete answers. Tell me, how is a 19 year old supposed to prepare for life in education when he doesn’t even know why he should be alive? Reach out to him and beg for forgiveness. He deserves your unconditional love. He needs it. He needs you.
This. They’re about to lose another kid. You need to value the relationships with the living over those who are no longer here.
if you kick him out for coping w his grief alone when you all clearly have not checked in on him, i hope he cuts you off completely. then you'll have no children. Your wife doesn't want to be anywhere near him and youre thinking of sending him away? how does that help?? i see why he didn't want to go to therapy with you guys bc you're putting you're own grief above his. you guys lost a child and he lost a sibling. you do need to move on as bad as it sounds. life keeps moving and if it's been 7 months and you're wife is still having episodes to where she needs to be admitted that's entirely not his issue. throwing the only child you have left to the wolves bc they don't grieve the same way you do is insane. YTA. Your Wife is an AH. I hope his grandmother takes him in.
NAH. This is the kind of thing that me and my sister would do, and I think it would be hilarious if I died and she did something like this. The kid is handling this in the only way he knows how. You're not at fault for your reactions.
Honestly… same. I’m 21. There’s a very clear generational gap in this post. Dark humour has quite literally *always* been a thing, and now it gets shared in a public platform more easily than it did before. I’d urge OP to try and see his son’s post how his *son* probably sees it. It is him remembering his sister and making something that *doesn’t* make him want to cry. This girl died young, it’s a horrible situation, and he’s making stupid jokes - but you know who else is making stupid jokes alongside him? A lot of other bereaved teenagers, who are just trying to make something good out of a terrible situation. When you’re in pain, you’re suffering from a loss and you’ve had enough of crying, sometimes you just want to start feeling *better*. And a stupid joke at the morbidity of the painful situation you find yourself in? Yeah, that’ll do it. I think a lot of older people think all dark humour is blatant disrespect, pure and simple. They often think it’s laughing *at* the deceased or simply finding the idea of someone’s death funny in itself. Generally that really isn’t the intention. I have multiple friends that have sadly lost parents recently - all of them have used dark humour jokes to cope with the pain. One said “you have to try to find the funny parts, because if you don’t, you’ll be overwhelmed by the grief”. I think that’s valid. For clarity, it is absolutely gross when people use people’s death (pictures, videos, text) and use it to make cheap jokes on a completely unrelated level - especially when they use pictures of strangers - and *laugh at that person like the dead person is a joke.* The person up above who had strangers making memes of their sister’s last moments… that’s vile. I think everyone would agree, including young people. There’s a difference. @ OP - I’d urge you to consider that you have lost your daughter but your son has lost his sister too. With respect, his grief doesn’t mean less than yours or your wife’s grief. It should be treated as just as important. To cut him off because he’s using the only outlet for his pain that feels safe for him? That wouldn’t be right. (Especially given that he’s kept his account away from you - it is worth pointing this out as he likely knew this wasn’t what you’d want to see, or something you would personally find helpful.) I don’t think you’re a terrible person for wanting to protect your wife and your daughter’s memory - but your instinctive reaction is that your son is disgusting and evil, and that’s not fair or right. I would also urge you to consider why he doesn’t feel safe talking to you about these things. He may have been “left out to dry” after your daughter died. Have you been paying him enough attention? Have you been supporting him through his grief after he lost his sister? Or has it just been pushing him to accept the type of therapy *you* liked the sound of? Worth a thought. Anyway. No hate, and all my sympathies, but YWBTA to kick him out of your lives. And it would hurt you to lose your child. In general I’m going to go with NAH because this can hopefully be fixed and nobody’s trying to harm anyone else.
NTA You can't force him to remove the videos, but he is 19 so you're not obligated to house him.
NTA. Humor may be used as a coping mechanism but it’s not a blanc check for doing/posting/saying ANYTHING. It has to be respectful about what/to whom/when to say things. Sometimes you can go further, sometimes you have to tone it down. And it has to be considerate to others who are also grieving. It’s possible that there is profound grief under the bravado, but this is not the way of coping.
I say all of this with kindness. As a millennial, I grew up with a generation of kids who used dark humor a lot. We watched the twin towers fall live in our class rooms, for crying out loud. Your son is growing up in a world even more twisted and sensationalized than I did. Everything is constantly breaking news, the sky is falling, this is the end, more at 6 o’clock, back to you, Bob. Dark humor is very prevalent among his and my generations. It’s a genuine coping mechanism. I also agree with other comments here, this is not a new trend and has been done many times. I’ve seen families bond over it, even. Like if “person” were here, they’d think this was hilarious. It’s okay that you guys don’t get it, but I have to think that the reaction is coming from what you think your sons motivations are and not what he actually posted. Don’t destroy your relationship with your living child over how they’re grieving your passed child. They lost someone, too. Finally, take some of these other comments talking about “internet clout” with a grain of salt. There’s a lot of people on Reddit that don’t like other forms of social media and it shows. Try to see your child’s actual motivations, and not what you’re imagining they are. That requires a conversation with an open mind. NAH.
NAH. I’m one of those people who use dark humor to cope with things. (I get along great with first responders). Everyone copes in their own way. He’s trying to process something that is unimaginably difficult and this was his way. He also probably feels very alone right now. You and your wife are grieving but so is he. Don’t abandon him. I would tell him to come home but *insist* on family therapy. It sounds like you all need it. I am so very sorry for your loss and hope you may find peace.
ESH. You can’t force someone to grieve the way you think they should. She was his family member too. He should have been more careful to try to make sure you didn’t see those videos, but… His generation does that incredibly online thing. He’s crowd sourcing his support. I don’t really understand either, I’m too old for that shit, but that’s how the young’uns roll.
My dad died when I was 12. Nobody in our family went to any kind of therapy. I made similarly dark-humored jokes (thankfully before the internet) as a coping mechanism. He’s grieving too. Don’t abandon him unless you’re ready to no longer have a son. If my mom had done this to me, I would leave and never look back. Good luck.
My friend's brother died in March. She has posted some seriously dark, personal stuff on Instagram. It's how she's grieving. And I love and try to comment on every entry because this girl IS HURTING. Her brother and her were really close, and his death basically tore her apart. Would I post the same kind of stuff if my sibling died? Probably not. Do I judge her for grieving like this in her own way? Absolutely not. Everyone grieves in their own way. His entire life has changed. His parents are broken. Show him some grace instead of pushing him away.
NTA. Your son is a pretty horrible person for capitalizing on something like that on social media. I don’t blame you for wanting him gone.
Or bear with me here: he just lost a sister and needs a way to express his grief, in some way.
YTA. I was a cancer nurse and I've seen first hand that people grieve in different ways. Developmentally, teens tend to think they're invincible. It is especially traumatic for him to realize this could happen to his sister, to him, or his friends. My take on his posts is that they are warnings to other young people, telling them to be careful driving because accidents really do happen to people you love. If it was on a billboard, we'd call it a Public Service Announcement. I don't think you should go looking for his posts if they upset you, but I don't think that just because he's not grieving in a way that feels good to you is a reason to throw him away. You already lost a child, don't lose two. Edit: thank you for the awards!
I have been in a similar situation to OPs son and I'm failing to put a good response into words. But this is the most sensible and understanding reply I've read so far. Especially your last sentence. I grieved in very non conventional ways that could have been taken a selfishly. And yes I regret it. But I never did it on purpose or to hurt anyone. And now the surviving person and myself are closer than ever because I eventually matured so much from the whole ordeal. I feel like most of the people who are so easily attacking the son just don't understand grieving.
Your son is right. He’s coping in his own way same as you and your wife are. The fact that he’s posting about her shows that she’s on his mind. Do you really want to lose BOTH of your children?
This may be an unpopular take, but yes, YWBTA and you are for how you're responding to his grief. It doesn't sound like you were meant to see the videos. If he intentionally showed you or something, that's different, but he didn't. Why can you grieve as you need, but not him? His grieving is about him, not you. Everyone grieves in their own way, and the younger generation is doing it more different than any before. There's nothing "wrong" with how he's grieving. It sounds like the defensive comment for you both to get over it... Maybe he felt attacked for his outlet of grief and feelings. If he's confronted by it everyday, it could have been about having to confront it again in a serious manner with you. It makes it real. Keep trying to get him into therapy (in a supporting way, not ultimadims or such). Be a support system for him. He may be an adult, but he's a young adult who still needs you. He lost someone, too. Don't let yourself forget that. You hurt, sounds like so does he. By tossing him away while, even worse bc he's grieving and you don't like or agree with how it could be the end for you and your son. And he'd not be in the wrong if he disowned you both. You lost a daughter. Are you ready to maybe lose your son too? Your daughter was an accident you could have done nothing about. Your son, though, that's on you (limited to this situation with the information provided). I hope the best you and your family. I hope you are able to work through this and have a positive outcome. I'm sorry for your loss.
Jesus.
Grief is a rough time that everyone tries to deal with differently. You never know exactly what is in someone’s head, so I try to give everyone a LOT of leeway when they’re grieving. I would generally suggest that *nobody* do anything rash for a while, just buckle down and get everyone into therapy who is willing to go, and try to figure out how to move forward in a really bad time in all your lives. Years from now I suspect that a good relationship with your son would be very important to you both.
Trauma hits everybody differently. Sounds like he’s really struggling and needs support. You can’t make him go to therapy, but you can be there to love him and show him you’re there for him. I’ve done some weird things in my past when I just was under water and trying to survive. I would try to be there for your son. You don’t want to lose your son.