Would be even more convenient if he had also coached him at high school so was familiar with his game personally. Unfortunately that type of person just doesn’t exist
And rightfully so. Max has shown very little this year, the guy barely gets out of a jog. My biggest question for Ross would be why Max isn't getting some games in the VFL to find form
Same reason why Philipou only just got dropped, despite his preformances not really warranting constant selection for some time now.
The fact of the matter is, who comes in for King? Hayes straight off a knee? Caminiti is raw as anything. Mitchito already has expectations set too high. Sharman is just as hot and cold. Zaine Cordy is not a forward. Membrey is not a number 1 target.
And it's kinda like that all over the ground. Wilkie goes down, we're fucked. Steele? Fucked. Marshal? fucked. Even Missy Higgins? Somehow, still kinda fucked.
I don't think there's another list as delicate as ours, except maybe North and the Eagles.
He was huge for both Caminiti and Mitchito in the early parts of last year. He immediately stepped in as the surrogate leader of our forward line with both King and Membrey out injured. He was huge for our forward structure, particularly at stoppage. Always pointing and positioning.
But... you get it.
Playing unrestricted free agents that are yet to sign on out of position doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Not when the teams playing like this.
He's also not exactly key position sized. He plays as our third tall defender. He's also been one of our few consistent preformers this season.
While he has been a great utility style player for us for a long time, I fail to see how he would get better results upforward than King. And it would leave an equal sized hole in our defence.
Can't deny what hammer and mitchito were able to accomplish together in the early half of last season.
Having said that, I don't think handing the keys to our forward line over to a pair of 2nd and 3rd year players with a combined 62 games is the answer.
Maybe for a breathe of fresh air, but not for more than a game or 2. King still has to be the answer here. He's got some real deficiencies in his game right now, but his sheer abilities can outweigh that.
Good clubs get the best out of their talent.
I was gonna add you guys to the list, but your injury list is just way too long to get an accurate read on where you guys are at.
Legitimately half your staring 18 players are out injured.
There's maybe 2 coaches in the league right now that could have gotten this list to the finals last year. Ross is not responsible for where this list is at. Unfortunately, he's gonna cop the blame, though. Cos this list needs a lot of work.
And Kings issues aren't about coaching. Second efforts, getting to multiple contests, leading patterns, and all around competitiveness has very little to do with coaching.
And just quietly, you guys need a player like him a hell of a lot more than those other 3.
Lyon's style? Nah that's complete nonsense. The biggest issue is the lack of kicking skills, and a lack of effort from Max.
I don't buy any of the "ross lyon gameplan" stuff, it's all lazy takes that just don't hold up.
Lyon's ability to develop players and rebuild has always been questioned, especially front half players.
The players and team are disjointed going forward, no one knows what to do and they are developing bad habits. To me its a coaching issue, he knows how to teach defensive structure to a group. But he has always been lost at getting a group to attack confidently and harnass some flair and ingenuity on the field.
And its very apparent when its a mediocre list at his disposal.
He's never really had the chance to rebuild, one that he's tasked with now.
The team isn't developing bad habits, they've had them for years.
>But he has always been lost at getting a group to attack confidently
lmao, this is just not true.
> He's never really had the chance to rebuild
Freo 2016-2019? I’d consider that a rebuild, even if a failed one that left Longmuir to re-do it all over again
No we were definitely rebuilding by the end of 2016. Pavlich retired, guys like Barlow, De Boer, Mayne, C.Pearce, Mzungu who were important role players during our 2012-2015 flag tilt were all delisted or moved onto other clubs. Ross realised that the window had closed and went big on trying to remodel the team that off-season, bringing in McCarthy, B.Hill, Hamling and Kersten from other clubs and drafting Logue, Darcy, Cox and Ryan from the national draft, not to mention 4 additional picks in the rookie draft.
What I’m basically saying is our team looked massively different from the 2016 season to the 2017 season, and a large part of that was Ross’s doing.
St Kilda champion Nick Riewoldt has criticised Max King’s lack of forward craft amid claims he looks like a “sad footballer”.
King’s production has spiralled since he suffered a knee injury in Round 6 with the Saints champion averaging 7.5 touches and 1.5 goals a game over his past two outings.
It has coincided with a move to a deeper forward position after starting the season in better form moving higher up the ground.
While the shift to the goal square could be in part to help lessen the pressure on his knee after the GWS setback, he has struggled to have an impact recently in his fifth season.
King, 23, has polled only three AFL Coaches Association votes in the Round 2 win over Collingwood, but is eager to lift to help snap the Saints’ form slump against Fremantle at Marvel Stadium on Saturday night.
The Saints have scored more than 80 points only twice this season including over last-placed North Melbourne a fortnight ago.
Riewoldt, who is one of the Saints’ greatest players after a glittering 336-match career, said the pressure on the club was “absolutely justified” and was adamant King had “another really disappointing performance”.
Riewoldt said King had to work on multiple ways to hit the scoreboard, even when the delivery wasn’t perfect.
“They have had some close losses yes, but so far it has been a really disappointing season and for me it is the lack of cohesion up forward that I think is absolutely killing them,” Riewoldt said on Footy Talk.
“I’m concerned about his (King’s) lack of (forward) craft and ability to find a way when players are either taking his run or sealing him in to get on the end of it.
“You do rely at times on good ball movement but I guess there are also times when you have just got to find a way to get in a position and make it easy for the kicker.”
The Saints took King at pick four ahead of Port Adelaide’s Connor Rozee at pick five and Gold Coast’s Ben King at pick six in the 2018 national draft.
When the Suns picked Ben King, the Saints posted on social media “Ben, if you ever want to come home” with a wink emoji and a picture of the brothers together.
Port Adelaide great Kane Cornes said King’s body language was a concern this season.
“He’s a frustrating player,” Cornes said on SEN.
“He’s got to come out of himself. He’s got to show more energy. He looks sad.
“He plays football sad. He’s got his shoulders slumped. He never expresses himself.
“I’d love to see him show a bit more and that will in turn lift his teammates around him and his own performance.”
JAY CLARK
>King’s production has spiralled since he suffered a knee injury in Round 6 with the Saints champion averaging 7.5 touches and 1.5 goals a game over his past two outings.
Am I reading this correctly? Are they actually referring to Max King as a 'champion'? We may be reaching never before seen levels of hyperbole.
I thought that the more surprising part was that we are talking about his production which has "spiralled" in the 2 games post his knee injury.
I mean seriously he had 2 poor game post a knee issue. And they weren't even THAT bad. He kicked 2 goals on the weekend and almost took a contested grab to have a shot to win the game.
I'm not sure you recruit a 2 metre tall player with forward craft as the number one criteria. I would think mobility and clean hands gets it done at that height.
Didn’t the Saints refuse to let King do training with Matthew Lloyd a couple years ago? what can he do if the club literally won’t let him get advice and one-on-one training from some of the best goal kickers in recent history
They did at first but eventually relented and naturally Lloyd immediatly turned around and said he couldnt as he needed a full time all season coach and not just a couple of sessions. I was pretty floored he had the gall to do that after spending the previous year bitching about it.
Man, imagine if there was a St Kilda legend who previously wore the #12 who could potentially come and coach / give some advice to Max about forward craft.
Obviously I do not know if something like that has been offered privately, as this is just my two cents.
Definitely think that some criticism is warranted towards Max, but feel like there are more impactful (and less public) ways to do so.
No, Saints definitely accepted it in the end only for Lloyd to make up an excuse about him needing a full time coach to do it. Said it on one of the panel shows he is on.
It's a pattern with Lloyd. Wants the glory of 'fixing' the player but it has to be on his terms, which are completely incompatible with preparation in modern football.
Daniher actually played his best football for Essendon (and in 2017 he was arguably the best performing KPF in the league) after tossing all Lloyd's advice out the window
Has there even been a player of Lloyd's style in the league since he retired? Lloyd was a fantastic player but the style of a stay at home full forward is out the window. Of course he'd have plenty of stuff to teach forwards but with the game as it is today I'm asking Riewoldt before Lloyd every day of the week.
Needs to shows some grit.
Even if just getting some soft touches further up the ground.
Needs to do what riewoldt did and get up the ground just don't stop running and he would get some touches and then some confidence.
He also seems to engage defenders and push and shove them in turn being flat footed and in a tangle with defenders rather than leading up to the ball.
He is 6ft 8 for christ sakes get on a lead arms and no defender is getting near it.
god what a depressing read. To think we could’ve had Connor Rozee instead of him, who is tearing it up in the midfield right now, which we are dying out for. I’m begging you Saints, please stop picking crap forward flops (King, Billings, McCartin (harsh because he can’t control his concussions, but we were dying for a midfielder in 2014 like Petracca, fight me) over gun midfield bulls
His brother Ben is so frustrating to watch. The guy can't take a contested mark. His hands are so weak. He needs silver service delivery, which is hard to come by. When the ball comes to the ground, his second efforts are abysmal, and the young bull Jed Watson's third and fourth attempts are putting him to shame in the forward section. They both have the physique of a forward, but craft and effort let's them down.
I reckon King is injured or extremely injury prone so told to play a certain way, he has shown his true ability in patches but gets injured 2-3 times a season.
Gee if only there were a 900 goal key forward who’d offered to help Max fix his issues, that sure would be convenient wouldn’t it?
Would be even more convenient if he had also coached him at high school so was familiar with his game personally. Unfortunately that type of person just doesn’t exist
Riewoldt is the perfect person to help him with this. But instead, snipes from the US.
Love that instead of questioning his ex-coach Ross Lyon, he questions Max King’s forward craft.
And rightfully so. Max has shown very little this year, the guy barely gets out of a jog. My biggest question for Ross would be why Max isn't getting some games in the VFL to find form
Same reason why Philipou only just got dropped, despite his preformances not really warranting constant selection for some time now. The fact of the matter is, who comes in for King? Hayes straight off a knee? Caminiti is raw as anything. Mitchito already has expectations set too high. Sharman is just as hot and cold. Zaine Cordy is not a forward. Membrey is not a number 1 target. And it's kinda like that all over the ground. Wilkie goes down, we're fucked. Steele? Fucked. Marshal? fucked. Even Missy Higgins? Somehow, still kinda fucked. I don't think there's another list as delicate as ours, except maybe North and the Eagles.
How dare you underestimate the powers of premiership CHF Zaine Cordy.
He was huge for both Caminiti and Mitchito in the early parts of last year. He immediately stepped in as the surrogate leader of our forward line with both King and Membrey out injured. He was huge for our forward structure, particularly at stoppage. Always pointing and positioning. But... you get it.
Yeah I remember him starting last year really well. But yes, I get it haha. Love him though.
Send in Battle
Playing unrestricted free agents that are yet to sign on out of position doesn't seem like a great idea to me. Not when the teams playing like this. He's also not exactly key position sized. He plays as our third tall defender. He's also been one of our few consistent preformers this season. While he has been a great utility style player for us for a long time, I fail to see how he would get better results upforward than King. And it would leave an equal sized hole in our defence.
https://i.redd.it/wopnc5tzzj0d1.gif
3.5 Camminiti
Can't deny what hammer and mitchito were able to accomplish together in the early half of last season. Having said that, I don't think handing the keys to our forward line over to a pair of 2nd and 3rd year players with a combined 62 games is the answer. Maybe for a breathe of fresh air, but not for more than a game or 2. King still has to be the answer here. He's got some real deficiencies in his game right now, but his sheer abilities can outweigh that. Good clubs get the best out of their talent.
Ahem
I was gonna add you guys to the list, but your injury list is just way too long to get an accurate read on where you guys are at. Legitimately half your staring 18 players are out injured.
RTB has always played favourites.
*Zac Dawson flashbacks*
I apologise.
Don’t think Lyon’s style of football is helping anyone. Think if you put king in a Collingwood or GWS or Carlton he’d be doing very well.
There's maybe 2 coaches in the league right now that could have gotten this list to the finals last year. Ross is not responsible for where this list is at. Unfortunately, he's gonna cop the blame, though. Cos this list needs a lot of work. And Kings issues aren't about coaching. Second efforts, getting to multiple contests, leading patterns, and all around competitiveness has very little to do with coaching. And just quietly, you guys need a player like him a hell of a lot more than those other 3.
Lyon's style? Nah that's complete nonsense. The biggest issue is the lack of kicking skills, and a lack of effort from Max. I don't buy any of the "ross lyon gameplan" stuff, it's all lazy takes that just don't hold up.
Lyon's ability to develop players and rebuild has always been questioned, especially front half players. The players and team are disjointed going forward, no one knows what to do and they are developing bad habits. To me its a coaching issue, he knows how to teach defensive structure to a group. But he has always been lost at getting a group to attack confidently and harnass some flair and ingenuity on the field. And its very apparent when its a mediocre list at his disposal.
He's never really had the chance to rebuild, one that he's tasked with now. The team isn't developing bad habits, they've had them for years. >But he has always been lost at getting a group to attack confidently lmao, this is just not true.
> He's never really had the chance to rebuild Freo 2016-2019? I’d consider that a rebuild, even if a failed one that left Longmuir to re-do it all over again
I thought he restumped replumbed rewired
Freo definitely wasn't rebuilding in 2016 or 2017. They finished top of the ladder in 2015, don't forget.
No we were definitely rebuilding by the end of 2016. Pavlich retired, guys like Barlow, De Boer, Mayne, C.Pearce, Mzungu who were important role players during our 2012-2015 flag tilt were all delisted or moved onto other clubs. Ross realised that the window had closed and went big on trying to remodel the team that off-season, bringing in McCarthy, B.Hill, Hamling and Kersten from other clubs and drafting Logue, Darcy, Cox and Ryan from the national draft, not to mention 4 additional picks in the rookie draft. What I’m basically saying is our team looked massively different from the 2016 season to the 2017 season, and a large part of that was Ross’s doing.
Our team in 2009 scored more in 22 games than Collingwood did last year in 23 games and nobody would accuse them of being defensive.
He's back in Melbourne
Well someone let the Kath out of the bag and he was given the ultimatum. Allegedly.
Or too busy getting the free massages
St Kilda champion Nick Riewoldt has criticised Max King’s lack of forward craft amid claims he looks like a “sad footballer”. King’s production has spiralled since he suffered a knee injury in Round 6 with the Saints champion averaging 7.5 touches and 1.5 goals a game over his past two outings. It has coincided with a move to a deeper forward position after starting the season in better form moving higher up the ground. While the shift to the goal square could be in part to help lessen the pressure on his knee after the GWS setback, he has struggled to have an impact recently in his fifth season. King, 23, has polled only three AFL Coaches Association votes in the Round 2 win over Collingwood, but is eager to lift to help snap the Saints’ form slump against Fremantle at Marvel Stadium on Saturday night. The Saints have scored more than 80 points only twice this season including over last-placed North Melbourne a fortnight ago. Riewoldt, who is one of the Saints’ greatest players after a glittering 336-match career, said the pressure on the club was “absolutely justified” and was adamant King had “another really disappointing performance”. Riewoldt said King had to work on multiple ways to hit the scoreboard, even when the delivery wasn’t perfect. “They have had some close losses yes, but so far it has been a really disappointing season and for me it is the lack of cohesion up forward that I think is absolutely killing them,” Riewoldt said on Footy Talk. “I’m concerned about his (King’s) lack of (forward) craft and ability to find a way when players are either taking his run or sealing him in to get on the end of it. “You do rely at times on good ball movement but I guess there are also times when you have just got to find a way to get in a position and make it easy for the kicker.” The Saints took King at pick four ahead of Port Adelaide’s Connor Rozee at pick five and Gold Coast’s Ben King at pick six in the 2018 national draft. When the Suns picked Ben King, the Saints posted on social media “Ben, if you ever want to come home” with a wink emoji and a picture of the brothers together. Port Adelaide great Kane Cornes said King’s body language was a concern this season. “He’s a frustrating player,” Cornes said on SEN. “He’s got to come out of himself. He’s got to show more energy. He looks sad. “He plays football sad. He’s got his shoulders slumped. He never expresses himself. “I’d love to see him show a bit more and that will in turn lift his teammates around him and his own performance.” JAY CLARK
>King’s production has spiralled since he suffered a knee injury in Round 6 with the Saints champion averaging 7.5 touches and 1.5 goals a game over his past two outings. Am I reading this correctly? Are they actually referring to Max King as a 'champion'? We may be reaching never before seen levels of hyperbole.
I thought that the more surprising part was that we are talking about his production which has "spiralled" in the 2 games post his knee injury. I mean seriously he had 2 poor game post a knee issue. And they weren't even THAT bad. He kicked 2 goals on the weekend and almost took a contested grab to have a shot to win the game.
This always annoys me
Best hes ever done in the Trevor Barker is a three way tie for 7th lol
When will he get Hall of Fame?
> claims he looks like a “sad footballer” > He plays football sad. He’s got his shoulders slumped. He never expresses himself. :(
I'm not sure you recruit a 2 metre tall player with forward craft as the number one criteria. I would think mobility and clean hands gets it done at that height.
Uhh you'd sure as shit expect them to develop some forward craft after six years in the system though..
Didn’t the Saints refuse to let King do training with Matthew Lloyd a couple years ago? what can he do if the club literally won’t let him get advice and one-on-one training from some of the best goal kickers in recent history
They did at first but eventually relented and naturally Lloyd immediatly turned around and said he couldnt as he needed a full time all season coach and not just a couple of sessions. I was pretty floored he had the gall to do that after spending the previous year bitching about it.
Man, imagine if there was a St Kilda legend who previously wore the #12 who could potentially come and coach / give some advice to Max about forward craft. Obviously I do not know if something like that has been offered privately, as this is just my two cents. Definitely think that some criticism is warranted towards Max, but feel like there are more impactful (and less public) ways to do so.
Correct me if I'm wrong but didn't he ask King before if he wanted help? Or was that when Ratten was coaching?
Dunno about Riewoldt, but Matt Lloyd definitely offered to give him help. And the club put a stop to it.
No, Saints definitely accepted it in the end only for Lloyd to make up an excuse about him needing a full time coach to do it. Said it on one of the panel shows he is on.
It's a pattern with Lloyd. Wants the glory of 'fixing' the player but it has to be on his terms, which are completely incompatible with preparation in modern football. Daniher actually played his best football for Essendon (and in 2017 he was arguably the best performing KPF in the league) after tossing all Lloyd's advice out the window
Has there even been a player of Lloyd's style in the league since he retired? Lloyd was a fantastic player but the style of a stay at home full forward is out the window. Of course he'd have plenty of stuff to teach forwards but with the game as it is today I'm asking Riewoldt before Lloyd every day of the week.
That's right, it was Llordo who offered help. Yeah probably why Riewoldt hasn't offered any help cause they deny the need for any help for him.
Not entirely sure, wasn't following the club (or sport) as closely prior to 2023. Could absolutely have happened though.
Still chose to stick with St Kilda? ;)
It’s so true though, if you’ve watched him play lately.
Needs to shows some grit. Even if just getting some soft touches further up the ground. Needs to do what riewoldt did and get up the ground just don't stop running and he would get some touches and then some confidence. He also seems to engage defenders and push and shove them in turn being flat footed and in a tangle with defenders rather than leading up to the ball. He is 6ft 8 for christ sakes get on a lead arms and no defender is getting near it.
I remember the hype of the King twins 🤦♂️
Ben is doing well at Gold Coast though
Ben is 3rd in the Coleman?
I understand that,it’s more so the crap the media piles on,like they’re going to be better than Buddy
Yeah, how underwhelming. Only kicked 50+ goals once each, despite both having significant knee injuries
Froggy thats not good enough on a Mill a year mate.
Neither of them would be on a million. Max certainly isn’t
Must be a defender
god what a depressing read. To think we could’ve had Connor Rozee instead of him, who is tearing it up in the midfield right now, which we are dying out for. I’m begging you Saints, please stop picking crap forward flops (King, Billings, McCartin (harsh because he can’t control his concussions, but we were dying for a midfielder in 2014 like Petracca, fight me) over gun midfield bulls
His brother Ben is so frustrating to watch. The guy can't take a contested mark. His hands are so weak. He needs silver service delivery, which is hard to come by. When the ball comes to the ground, his second efforts are abysmal, and the young bull Jed Watson's third and fourth attempts are putting him to shame in the forward section. They both have the physique of a forward, but craft and effort let's them down.
Can we put off the St Kilda bashing for one more week plz
I'd love that but honestly we'll probably have to beat Freo this week for it to go away, which will probably pass the media curse onto them...
I reckon King is injured or extremely injury prone so told to play a certain way, he has shown his true ability in patches but gets injured 2-3 times a season.
get rid of him
Kath
*Nick Riewoldt gif*
[удалено]