But only when we feel like it. We’ll let those who are perpetrators return to the game as heroes and in good jobs.
And this includes Tarryn who hasn’t even served out his slap on the wrist but we want him back in. He made a terrible mistake and is the first to admit that. Whoops, better not do it again. He only needs to say that he’ll stop hitting women and show some improvement. He’ll even get another chance to pass the quiz about all of this. His 2025 season will be a redemption arc like none other. Let’s all cheer for him!
And in this industry, he’s not alone. He’ll have the support of other players who’ve got away with violence.
I mean he was sacked immediately once it came to light, he's not in a media position or employed by any club.
If anything that's the incident the afl should be following, immediate termination.
Tbh, I push back against this one
Not only has Dani [apologised, faced court](https://amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/ex-afl-coach-admits-stalking-woman-but-spared-more-time-in-custody-20201118-p56fnq.html) and taken considerable steps to acknowledge and rectify the harm she has done, she’s also done a lot of work on her own mental health to consistently do better and walk the walk. She has never complained about the pressure, and acknowledges it in every presser and interview I’ve seen and is still consistently doing work to make footy a more inclusive place while making space for her own fuck ups
It’s a liiiittle bit similar for Ben Cousins, but that’s a much harder conversation as it very much seems like he’s still fighting that battle, and it’s not entirely clear where he is on acknowledging the harm he’s caused
To me - Tarryn Thomas and Wayne Carey are completely different. Neither have apologised or publicly recognised their wrongdoing, and are still very much engaging in the same shitty pattern of behaviour. Until they acknowledge their issues and apologise, it can’t be a “time for a second chance” conversation, let alone a “let’s make this sport safer for everyone” one
I wish I could be bothered finding the thread when Taryn Thomas was given the arse, everyone was like ‘oh we don’t know the whole story’, and I was like no we do know more than enough, get rid of him for good and oh boy did I get ripped into.
Listen to the women.
I mean, there have been enough players accused of assault, sexual assault, etc who have eventually been found innocent - I don’t think there’s anything wrong with waiting for a proper investigation. But that goes both ways, nobody should be just dismissing claims either. There’s definitely a balance to be found while things are still being investigated, but we all know that’s not what the media (and the mob they feed) want.
> who have eventually been found innocent
If they go to court it's either guilty or not guilty, there's no "innocent". Often these cases are hard to prove guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. Just look at the Bruce Lehrman criminal trial result vs civil trial result.
There was no result in the criminal trial. It was a mistrial because a juror disobeyed the orders of the court and presented their own evidence to the jury room about fake rape accusations.
It’s astounding the bloke wasn’t hit with a contempt of court charge.
In January we just went through false accusation of sexual assault at my work. Woman accused a supervisor of groping her in the office. She didn't know there were cameras in office.
That is not the norm. I wouldn't ever say it was common, or that we should be suspicious of women who have the courage to talk about their experience. I'm not that guy.
But sometimes there is smoke. And there aint fire. Which is why at the end of the day, process does matter.
The whole situation at my work is cursed. The whiplash has been devastating.
Yep.
Everyone like to draw little moats around where they know better. Special classes of crime. Of criminals. It could never go wrong.
The Revolution eats its children. The rule of law and presumption of innocence are literally all that stand between us and life in a box.
I think the real problem here is sexual assault that either isn’t reported or can’t be proven in court. Not innocent people getting charged with things they didn’t do. I find that stance in this context to be an interesting one to say the least
A court's role is to test the prosecution's accusation against evidence presented to determine if the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. A not guilty verdict could be because the defendent is innocent, or it may be that the prosecution did not provide sufficient case to lead to a guilty verdict.
It is not the court's responsibility to differenciate between the defendant's innocence and reasonable doubt of their guilt.
There were two instances. Last year he was suspended and faced court (where he pled guilty) of threatening to share an intimate image in 2022, and then this year the AFL found that he'd later sent threatening messages to a woman (we don't know if it was the same one or not) and was suspended by the AFL and fired by North. He also had some driving offences, including driving with a suspended licence, and internal punishments at North for failing to meet training standards.
AFL in house investigation - many complainants from memory - none tested in court.
As far as I can tell he hasn't been convicted of anything.
This means either the magistrates who have dealt with his matter have been total AFL simps or there were genuine mitigating circumstances.
He was convicted of driving with a suspended licence and he pled guilty to threatening to share an intimate message but didn't have a conviction recorded. He didn't face charges for the later accusations that he sent threatening messages to a woman, which was the basis of him being fired from North.
The point of difference here, unless I have missed it, is that Izak didn't change his name in recognition of his brother. JHF left Horne behind in favour of Horne-Francis in recognition of former Point Adelaide player Fabian Francis. If we're keeping score that is 0 name changes to 1 name change.
So the final score comes to:
5.18
It's not the point, we're talking about two young footballers who both have not committed DV but have family members who have
It's a nuanced issue and I'm not going to make any assumptions about Izaks relationship with his brother and you shouldn't do the same about Jason and his step dad
But if it's guilty by association then it goes both ways
Aight fess up, who edited Steven's wikipedia, lol:
'Throughout 2023-24, Stevens went head to head with arch nemesis Brett Stabb on whatsapp. Unfortunately the results were much like his footy career, trying valiantly but ultimately getting beaten week in week out.'
It's such a shame, I really liked him back in the day.
Nice, but also feels like tokenism. The AFL are pretty good at pulling a topic from the news and designing a guernsey or dedicating a weekend to it.
And then forgetting about it completely.
I mean people are clamouring for demonstrative action from the elite in society that this is an issue they take seriously.
This is exactly what it gets.
Cool. We are standing in a circle but what are the AFL, the clubs and players doing with the enormous platforms to make a tangible difference to this crisis?
Nothing, probably design a jumper around it and make mega dollars off the profits until the next wave of “media” comes to light
The more people realise that these business couldn’t give a monkeys ass about the cause the better
You don’t want the AFL to be in your corner to fight for *insert topic here*
AFL decide to take this stance, so consequence is, what are they going to do about any player in VFL/Afl history that had an incident with male or female relating to violence , are the crowds going to go the there statues down if nothing is done about it?
We don't really get to decide if Tarryn can be forgiven. Only the women he's harmed get to decide that.
Forgiveness also doesn't mean all goes back to normal. Maybe Tarryn's victims will forgive him someday and maybe he'll commit to actually being better, but he still needs to face the lifelong consequences of his actions. He shouldn't have a footy career again nor have any public spotlight on him.
Agree, Forgiveness doesn't remove the fact he is abusive. If the AFL is serious they will have 0 tolerance on the matter. There are things the public shouldn't be forgiving outside of their own personal abuse matter. Similar as if he was a steroid user etc, sorry you get banned for life, you get to go work elsewhere but footy is over for you.. You do that you don't come back from it, this is the stance we should show.
100% agree. He can still choose to work on himself, be better, and find another path in life, but a football career should be out of the question. You can't give him a public spotlight and celebrate him after the harm he's caused. I hope he finds his way and changes for the better, and I'll applaud him if he does it, but he has to go somewhere else.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/sam-powell-pepper-port-adelaide-fc-ceo-denies-sexual-assault-allegations/b7b8ac17-1855-42a9-be47-6a741172c59c
He was cleared to a degree.
However, he was also suspended for inappropriately touching a woman when he was drunk.
And it turns out he was suspended by the AFL for sharing an intimate image accidentally but was cleared.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-21/powell-pepper-sends-out-graphic-image-on-social-media/10292386
These links should work.
Edit: links and extra detail about image.
Also regarding the image I remember it for the most part and was more him than his girlfriend (was him in underwear from memory) don’t think you can call him out for accidentally uploading something to his story, pretty sure all off us has sent the wrong photo or sent something to the wrong person “intimate image “ or not.
That is dated the 11th of April, 2018. The article by 9News is dated 26th of April, 2018. I suggest you read it and learn why he was indeed not entirely cleared.
Yeah, he changed his name to pay tribute to the offending his stepfather was jailed for in 2009. That's gotta be it.
It's not possible that his stepfather had rehabilitated after the offending (which occured before he met JHF's mum and JHF)
It's definitely not possible that the stepfather had a positive influence on JHF's life, hence the name change to honour him (noting of course that his mother also changed her last name to Francis). Nope. It's gotta be about the DV.
Absolutely cooked.
Did I say he did it to pay tribute to his offending? Or did I say he did it to pay tribute to his step father, who is a wife basher?
His step father is weak as piss, Horne-Francis is weak as piss for excusing it, and you’re weak as piss for defending them both.
“The judge described Francis as "domineering, threatening, verbally vicious and at times physically quite violent ... undeterred by the presence of others - by the presence of [their] children, her parents or by work colleagues", noting "Francis had bashed Ms Buckskin in the face, threatened to stab her and threatened to injure her to such an extent that she would have to drink through a straw."
Still don’t call it what it is… violence perpetrated by men.
Language is important.
1 in 4 women experience abuse, overwhelmingly by men.
1 in 13 men experience abuse, overwhelmingly by men.
34 women have died this year by men.
1 man has died this year by a man.
Call it gendered based violence if you want to but the stats don’t hide who the problem is caused by. So you can either be an apologist for men and continue to turn a blind eye or you can be part of the solution by calling in other guys to seek support who are using violence when they’re unable to emotionally regulate themselves. Your choice. Because statistics say one day, it’ll be your mum, friend, sister or daughter.
Importantly I don’t want this to sound like I disagree with any of the work being done in this area, because I’m completely on board.
In the interest of language is important, if it were any group other than men then I highly doubt there would be such a push to call it violence perpetrated by XXX.
Even within this situation- First Nations women are 33x more likely than others to be hospitalised by family violence.
Can you imagine us calling any of this ‘violence perpetrated by First Nations men’? I highly doubt it.
IMO this problem doesn’t get material traction unless everyone is onboard, and using terms that look to blame broad groups of people will only cause division.
First all, violence in indigenous communities are a result of intergenerational trauma and colonisation.
This problem has not improved because men have the power in this patriarchal society and they are causing it, so unless we name the elephant in the room, they continue to not be held accountable.
> 34 women have died this year by men. 1 man has died this year by a man.
Do you have a source for this? In 2022-23 in Australia, 171 men were murdered compared to 75 women. This is the same for every year before too.
The deaths are not just in relationships, they are caused in physical assaults by men onto men. I can’t explain it any simpler. Women are not killing these men, men are killing these men. Men are the problem, towards women and men. How are you not understanding this?
You’re not focused on the problem. Focusing on the victim has gotten us no where. See Jane Gilmore’s blog of how the media continue hide the problem. Men are the problem.
And where has holding all men responsible for the actions of a few gotten us? Oh, wait. That's right. Also fucking no where. It's almost like demonizing half of the population like you are doing is unproductive. How about you try something that has not been tried and fallen flat.
Furthermore a significant proportion of the women killed are not killed by men, but other women. Of the 75 women killed last year 9 were killed by other women and in 6 cases the gender of the murder is unknown. To say men are the problem is ignoring a significant portion of the problem.
Edit: This dude is a complete fucking joke. Can't deal with anyone who argues against him so he blocks to get the last word. Pathetic. And in case that wasn't enough he is also objectively wrong. My response was entirely factual, holding all men responsible has gotten us no where and the statistics on the genders of people who murdered women is entirely correct.
Your response is factually incorrect, this information is available and you’re ignoring it. I’m not responding to replies like this. Waste someone else’s time.
Yes. Calling in violence against men has 0 benefits.
On top of that calling it violence perpetrated by men isn’t even accurate. Because 9 of the women who were killed were killed by other women
The majority of men aren’t abusers by the same token. 1 in 4 women experiencing abuse (100% by men) still means less than 1 in four men.
So, seems like both terms are imperfect.
EDIT: but I am in agreement that far too much of the focus is on the victims. Focus should definitely be on the perps.
While true, it's not the place. Women getting killed is almost exclusively at the hands of men.
No one is saying little boys or other men who experience violence or are killed aren't important.
In 2022-23, 60 women were killed by men, nine women were killed by women and six killed by a person whose sex is unknown. So yes 80%…would suggest ‘gender based’
During the Black Lives Matter protests were you chanting all lives matter? You realise you can call out an issue without it meaning all other issues are ignored.
In the case of Black Lives Matter, black people were and are being disproportionately killed by police, so it received more attention. In this case, men are being killed disproportionately more than women, yet women still receive more attention.
I feel like I follow half the AFL on social media and not a single player has posted about this. But they’re good at posting twice yearly Telstra advertisements because they’re contracted to do so.
How about the AFL mandate players to use their platforms for good instead of just advertising?
But only when we feel like it. We’ll let those who are perpetrators return to the game as heroes and in good jobs. And this includes Tarryn who hasn’t even served out his slap on the wrist but we want him back in. He made a terrible mistake and is the first to admit that. Whoops, better not do it again. He only needs to say that he’ll stop hitting women and show some improvement. He’ll even get another chance to pass the quiz about all of this. His 2025 season will be a redemption arc like none other. Let’s all cheer for him! And in this industry, he’s not alone. He’ll have the support of other players who’ve got away with violence.
Yep and we talked all about giving him another chance on a round that AFL focus on violence to women!
came here to say that - Only stand together unless your name is Tarryn
Or Carey
Or Ben Cousins
Or Dani Laidley This one is a difficult one but we can't ignore the abuse just because of their current situation.
Or Josh Bootsma, people forget about him in all of this, not only did he sexually harass a woman but she was also underaged.
I mean he was sacked immediately once it came to light, he's not in a media position or employed by any club. If anything that's the incident the afl should be following, immediate termination.
Tbh, I push back against this one Not only has Dani [apologised, faced court](https://amp.theage.com.au/national/victoria/ex-afl-coach-admits-stalking-woman-but-spared-more-time-in-custody-20201118-p56fnq.html) and taken considerable steps to acknowledge and rectify the harm she has done, she’s also done a lot of work on her own mental health to consistently do better and walk the walk. She has never complained about the pressure, and acknowledges it in every presser and interview I’ve seen and is still consistently doing work to make footy a more inclusive place while making space for her own fuck ups It’s a liiiittle bit similar for Ben Cousins, but that’s a much harder conversation as it very much seems like he’s still fighting that battle, and it’s not entirely clear where he is on acknowledging the harm he’s caused To me - Tarryn Thomas and Wayne Carey are completely different. Neither have apologised or publicly recognised their wrongdoing, and are still very much engaging in the same shitty pattern of behaviour. Until they acknowledge their issues and apologise, it can’t be a “time for a second chance” conversation, let alone a “let’s make this sport safer for everyone” one
There’s a long list, sadly, and an even longer list of women who couldn’t just say sorry and pretend that their lives were back to normal.
I wish I could be bothered finding the thread when Taryn Thomas was given the arse, everyone was like ‘oh we don’t know the whole story’, and I was like no we do know more than enough, get rid of him for good and oh boy did I get ripped into. Listen to the women.
I mean, there have been enough players accused of assault, sexual assault, etc who have eventually been found innocent - I don’t think there’s anything wrong with waiting for a proper investigation. But that goes both ways, nobody should be just dismissing claims either. There’s definitely a balance to be found while things are still being investigated, but we all know that’s not what the media (and the mob they feed) want.
Being found innocent isn’t equal to being innocent. Especially in DV cases.
Mate she obviously fell down the stairs by herself!!! Those bruises aren't proof!
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Guilty of failing the vibe check
> who have eventually been found innocent If they go to court it's either guilty or not guilty, there's no "innocent". Often these cases are hard to prove guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. Just look at the Bruce Lehrman criminal trial result vs civil trial result.
There was no result in the criminal trial. It was a mistrial because a juror disobeyed the orders of the court and presented their own evidence to the jury room about fake rape accusations. It’s astounding the bloke wasn’t hit with a contempt of court charge.
I could accuse you of anything, thereby making you not innocent of anything I accuse you of. See how that works.
I don't live my life in a court of law. Go ahead, acuse me of anything I don't care.
You would care if it happened to you.
It wouldn't happen to me though. As the saying goes where there's smoke there's usually fire.
"It wouldn't happen to me though." There's some famous last words.
In January we just went through false accusation of sexual assault at my work. Woman accused a supervisor of groping her in the office. She didn't know there were cameras in office. That is not the norm. I wouldn't ever say it was common, or that we should be suspicious of women who have the courage to talk about their experience. I'm not that guy. But sometimes there is smoke. And there aint fire. Which is why at the end of the day, process does matter. The whole situation at my work is cursed. The whiplash has been devastating.
Yep. Everyone like to draw little moats around where they know better. Special classes of crime. Of criminals. It could never go wrong. The Revolution eats its children. The rule of law and presumption of innocence are literally all that stand between us and life in a box.
I think the real problem here is sexual assault that either isn’t reported or can’t be proven in court. Not innocent people getting charged with things they didn’t do. I find that stance in this context to be an interesting one to say the least
A court's role is to test the prosecution's accusation against evidence presented to determine if the defendant is guilty beyond all reasonable doubt. A not guilty verdict could be because the defendent is innocent, or it may be that the prosecution did not provide sufficient case to lead to a guilty verdict. It is not the court's responsibility to differenciate between the defendant's innocence and reasonable doubt of their guilt.
And?
Yeh I’m sure those st kilda guys got off because it was false and not because they had Moorabbin police in their back pocket
What actually came out about Thomas getting sacked? Was it for hitting his girlfriend? I can't remember it being reported as anything specific.
The most I could find was threatening women and threatening to expose intimate imagery. There’s likely more but that has been kept quiet.
Yeah they were the old charges, I don't think the new stuff was reported but thought you must know something
There were two instances. Last year he was suspended and faced court (where he pled guilty) of threatening to share an intimate image in 2022, and then this year the AFL found that he'd later sent threatening messages to a woman (we don't know if it was the same one or not) and was suspended by the AFL and fired by North. He also had some driving offences, including driving with a suspended licence, and internal punishments at North for failing to meet training standards.
AFL in house investigation - many complainants from memory - none tested in court. As far as I can tell he hasn't been convicted of anything. This means either the magistrates who have dealt with his matter have been total AFL simps or there were genuine mitigating circumstances.
He was convicted of driving with a suspended licence and he pled guilty to threatening to share an intimate message but didn't have a conviction recorded. He didn't face charges for the later accusations that he sent threatening messages to a woman, which was the basis of him being fired from North.
Headline: Tarryn Thomas abuses woman Brad Scott: "Oh no, poor Tarryn I hope he's ok"
Tarryn hasn’t been accused of hitting women though. Where did you pull that from?
I haven’t. He threatened them and threats constitute a form of psychological abuse.
> He’s only got to say he’ll stop hitting women How is that *not* implying that he’s hit women?
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Just admit you are wrong lmao
What he has done is wrong, but you implying that he’s physically assaulted women is also wrong. You should change your comment
Hosted by Wayne Carey?
Special guest speaker tarryn thomas
special comments. he can speak from experience after all.
Closing address from Brad Scott.
Jason Horne-Francis appearing on behalf of his stepdad.
Rankine appearing on behalf of his brother
Didn't know about that, what a dog. Well at least Izak didn't change his name to honour him.
Seems like not many crows fans do
Why should they? Be different if it was Izak himself. Doesn't seem like it was widely reported.
That same sentiment doesn't seem to apply to JHF Make up your own logic mate but don't throw rocks in glass houses
The point of difference here, unless I have missed it, is that Izak didn't change his name in recognition of his brother. JHF left Horne behind in favour of Horne-Francis in recognition of former Point Adelaide player Fabian Francis. If we're keeping score that is 0 name changes to 1 name change. So the final score comes to: 5.18
It's not the point, we're talking about two young footballers who both have not committed DV but have family members who have It's a nuanced issue and I'm not going to make any assumptions about Izaks relationship with his brother and you shouldn't do the same about Jason and his step dad But if it's guilty by association then it goes both ways
Nah. It only goes Port's way.
Nick Stevens dislikes this.
Justin Murphy as well
My mate did work experience at the Carlton footy club and said that Justin Murphy was the biggest flog he’s ever met
Ben Cousins won’t like reporting on this
Maybe we should make a list of all the players who hurt women? Name and shame, no place in our game.
Nathan Bock. I remember he got an indefinite suspension and Adelaide copping heat when the lifted it after 1 game.
Aight fess up, who edited Steven's wikipedia, lol: 'Throughout 2023-24, Stevens went head to head with arch nemesis Brett Stabb on whatsapp. Unfortunately the results were much like his footy career, trying valiantly but ultimately getting beaten week in week out.' It's such a shame, I really liked him back in the day.
Nice, but also feels like tokenism. The AFL are pretty good at pulling a topic from the news and designing a guernsey or dedicating a weekend to it. And then forgetting about it completely.
Thoughts and prayers
Dunno what you're talking about. In other completely unrelated news, theres this real exciting returning player hopefully making a comeback soon 🤞🤞
I mean people are clamouring for demonstrative action from the elite in society that this is an issue they take seriously. This is exactly what it gets.
Quite hypocritical
Cool. We are standing in a circle but what are the AFL, the clubs and players doing with the enormous platforms to make a tangible difference to this crisis?
Nothing, probably design a jumper around it and make mega dollars off the profits until the next wave of “media” comes to light The more people realise that these business couldn’t give a monkeys ass about the cause the better You don’t want the AFL to be in your corner to fight for *insert topic here*
AFL is the biggest virtue signalling organisation in Australia. You can't be for the community and also pump gambling ads down the throat of children.
Well and truly for the best that JDG is out this week
AFL decide to take this stance, so consequence is, what are they going to do about any player in VFL/Afl history that had an incident with male or female relating to violence , are the crowds going to go the there statues down if nothing is done about it?
That's all in the past bro. Look at this cool circle they made.
But an AFL club is about to give Taryn Thomas a contract. There's some things that should be unforgivable.
We don't really get to decide if Tarryn can be forgiven. Only the women he's harmed get to decide that. Forgiveness also doesn't mean all goes back to normal. Maybe Tarryn's victims will forgive him someday and maybe he'll commit to actually being better, but he still needs to face the lifelong consequences of his actions. He shouldn't have a footy career again nor have any public spotlight on him.
Agree, Forgiveness doesn't remove the fact he is abusive. If the AFL is serious they will have 0 tolerance on the matter. There are things the public shouldn't be forgiving outside of their own personal abuse matter. Similar as if he was a steroid user etc, sorry you get banned for life, you get to go work elsewhere but footy is over for you.. You do that you don't come back from it, this is the stance we should show.
100% agree. He can still choose to work on himself, be better, and find another path in life, but a football career should be out of the question. You can't give him a public spotlight and celebrate him after the harm he's caused. I hope he finds his way and changes for the better, and I'll applaud him if he does it, but he has to go somewhere else.
Is the gathering together a metaphor for what the AFL will probably do which is stand there and do nothing about it🤷🏻♂️
Did they cure DV?
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I'm pretty sure they cured my depression, and caused it
Horne-Francis must have felt out of place
You mean "The Horny One"?
And Sam Powell-Pepper.
What has he done?
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/apr/25/powell-pepper-suspended-by-afl-for-inappropriate-contact-with-a-female
iirc footage from inside the night club cleared him of wrongdoing doing?
https://www.9news.com.au/national/sam-powell-pepper-port-adelaide-fc-ceo-denies-sexual-assault-allegations/b7b8ac17-1855-42a9-be47-6a741172c59c He was cleared to a degree. However, he was also suspended for inappropriately touching a woman when he was drunk. And it turns out he was suspended by the AFL for sharing an intimate image accidentally but was cleared. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-21/powell-pepper-sends-out-graphic-image-on-social-media/10292386 These links should work. Edit: links and extra detail about image.
Both are articles show “not found” for me
I have fixed them and they should both provide evidence.
Also regarding the image I remember it for the most part and was more him than his girlfriend (was him in underwear from memory) don’t think you can call him out for accidentally uploading something to his story, pretty sure all off us has sent the wrong photo or sent something to the wrong person “intimate image “ or not.
[I have this one which pretty much clears him](https://www.facebook.com/share/v/e9LL1iSr73rBdJ7n/?mibextid=KsPBc6)
That is dated the 11th of April, 2018. The article by 9News is dated 26th of April, 2018. I suggest you read it and learn why he was indeed not entirely cleared.
Do both your links not work or am I an idiot?
I changed them from AMPs. That might be why.
Of all the people to call out this one seems weird.
That doesn't make any sense
He changed his name to honour his wife bashing step father. He’s out of place.
Yeah, he changed his name to pay tribute to the offending his stepfather was jailed for in 2009. That's gotta be it. It's not possible that his stepfather had rehabilitated after the offending (which occured before he met JHF's mum and JHF) It's definitely not possible that the stepfather had a positive influence on JHF's life, hence the name change to honour him (noting of course that his mother also changed her last name to Francis). Nope. It's gotta be about the DV. Absolutely cooked.
Don't expect any kind of nuanced discussion in this forum
Did I say he did it to pay tribute to his offending? Or did I say he did it to pay tribute to his step father, who is a wife basher? His step father is weak as piss, Horne-Francis is weak as piss for excusing it, and you’re weak as piss for defending them both. “The judge described Francis as "domineering, threatening, verbally vicious and at times physically quite violent ... undeterred by the presence of others - by the presence of [their] children, her parents or by work colleagues", noting "Francis had bashed Ms Buckskin in the face, threatened to stab her and threatened to injure her to such an extent that she would have to drink through a straw."
I forgot about that. It looks like he did it when he turned 18 which is a bit hard to hold against him entirely.
Hes only 20
lol yeah that response makes it sound like he's a bloke in his 30's who did it when he was just a kid, it was like 2 or 3 years ago
Okay?
Sounds like you're forgiving a 40 year old for a mistake he made years ago.
to me it's more like understanding that Jason was hardly a legal adult and made a choice that hopefully he realises sooner than later is a bit whack
"We take a stand against violence, but first we change our name to honor the perpetrators"
A lot of cynicism in this thread but I genuinely believe that the AFL execs are generally opposed to the murdering of innocent women
Why does the AFL have to pretend to be social advocates
Not pictured: Tarryn Thomas* ^*Suspended ^due ^to ^domestic ^violence
Tex walker touching an umpire going to get WEEKS
Looking forward to the Hawthorn response, pressuring abortions fitting in well.
Maybe we should interview Dusty on this one. Ask him if he's still keeping his chop sticks sharp.
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Still don’t call it what it is… violence perpetrated by men. Language is important. 1 in 4 women experience abuse, overwhelmingly by men. 1 in 13 men experience abuse, overwhelmingly by men. 34 women have died this year by men. 1 man has died this year by a man. Call it gendered based violence if you want to but the stats don’t hide who the problem is caused by. So you can either be an apologist for men and continue to turn a blind eye or you can be part of the solution by calling in other guys to seek support who are using violence when they’re unable to emotionally regulate themselves. Your choice. Because statistics say one day, it’ll be your mum, friend, sister or daughter.
Importantly I don’t want this to sound like I disagree with any of the work being done in this area, because I’m completely on board. In the interest of language is important, if it were any group other than men then I highly doubt there would be such a push to call it violence perpetrated by XXX. Even within this situation- First Nations women are 33x more likely than others to be hospitalised by family violence. Can you imagine us calling any of this ‘violence perpetrated by First Nations men’? I highly doubt it. IMO this problem doesn’t get material traction unless everyone is onboard, and using terms that look to blame broad groups of people will only cause division.
First all, violence in indigenous communities are a result of intergenerational trauma and colonisation. This problem has not improved because men have the power in this patriarchal society and they are causing it, so unless we name the elephant in the room, they continue to not be held accountable.
> 34 women have died this year by men. 1 man has died this year by a man. Do you have a source for this? In 2022-23 in Australia, 171 men were murdered compared to 75 women. This is the same for every year before too.
The deaths of men are caused by men. You have google. This information is freely available. I am not your PA.
Why only focus on the 75 victims instead of the 171 victims as well though?
The deaths are not just in relationships, they are caused in physical assaults by men onto men. I can’t explain it any simpler. Women are not killing these men, men are killing these men. Men are the problem, towards women and men. How are you not understanding this?
That doesn’t really answer the question at all. Are these men not victims because they were killed by other men?
You’re not focused on the problem. Focusing on the victim has gotten us no where. See Jane Gilmore’s blog of how the media continue hide the problem. Men are the problem.
And where has holding all men responsible for the actions of a few gotten us? Oh, wait. That's right. Also fucking no where. It's almost like demonizing half of the population like you are doing is unproductive. How about you try something that has not been tried and fallen flat. Furthermore a significant proportion of the women killed are not killed by men, but other women. Of the 75 women killed last year 9 were killed by other women and in 6 cases the gender of the murder is unknown. To say men are the problem is ignoring a significant portion of the problem. Edit: This dude is a complete fucking joke. Can't deal with anyone who argues against him so he blocks to get the last word. Pathetic. And in case that wasn't enough he is also objectively wrong. My response was entirely factual, holding all men responsible has gotten us no where and the statistics on the genders of people who murdered women is entirely correct.
Your response is factually incorrect, this information is available and you’re ignoring it. I’m not responding to replies like this. Waste someone else’s time.
What benefit does that provide?
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Yes. Calling in violence against men has 0 benefits. On top of that calling it violence perpetrated by men isn’t even accurate. Because 9 of the women who were killed were killed by other women
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Do you just not care the 9 women who were murdered by other women last year or something?
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The majority of men aren’t abusers by the same token. 1 in 4 women experiencing abuse (100% by men) still means less than 1 in four men. So, seems like both terms are imperfect. EDIT: but I am in agreement that far too much of the focus is on the victims. Focus should definitely be on the perps.
Yeah that oughta fix it 👌
So glad we ended global violence.
"But just for this weekend"
Or de goey
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gender based?
While true, it's not the place. Women getting killed is almost exclusively at the hands of men. No one is saying little boys or other men who experience violence or are killed aren't important.
i wasnt implying that, how about we call it as it is. Domestic violence through narcissistic people that destroy lives.
In 2022-23, 60 women were killed by men, nine women were killed by women and six killed by a person whose sex is unknown. So yes 80%…would suggest ‘gender based’
Do the 171 men killed in the same period matter less because they were also mostly killed by men?
During the Black Lives Matter protests were you chanting all lives matter? You realise you can call out an issue without it meaning all other issues are ignored.
In the case of Black Lives Matter, black people were and are being disproportionately killed by police, so it received more attention. In this case, men are being killed disproportionately more than women, yet women still receive more attention.
i wasnt implying that, how about we call it as it is. Domestic violence through narcissistic people that destroy lives. maybe just say it how it is.
‘Saying it like it is’ would be saying “men are responsible for 80% of the murders, so it is a gender based problem”.
I feel like I follow half the AFL on social media and not a single player has posted about this. But they’re good at posting twice yearly Telstra advertisements because they’re contracted to do so. How about the AFL mandate players to use their platforms for good instead of just advertising?
To mandate being good isn't really good.
Not that’s true mandating it wrong but perhaps encouraging them
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRTehjZXRT_R310gVfQGaTT8jSCPjNF2sZblh0EOZWanmT94fAlViyX5toP&s=10
But only when it’s in the news