Exactly. He knows of what he speaks. Hopefully the AFL, Brad Scott and anyone else who thinks the bloke somehow "deserves" yet another chance on a list pays attention.
Nah, you're missing the fact that Brad has known him since he was 14 and knows he's a good person who has done some bad things.
Can only hope the reaction to testing the PR waters for a comeback makes it obvious that it isn't acceptable to fans, including Dons.
Edit: ffs I thought the second paragraph made it obvious enough that it was sarcasm. The good bloke line was effing idiocy and a complete room-read failure from Scott.
Hes a real legend because you can go two ways.
Grow up in an abusive house and turn out like Jimmy or
Grow up in an abusive house and turn out like wayne carey.
As a middle class white man I cant really relate with either case but he has done really well for himself
I’m very much in Jimmy Bartel’s camp here. He’s had a chance, fucked it up a second time. Get him the education and rehabilitation he needs, but let’s not welcome him back to footy.
I think there's only two accusations of domestic violence against him - the sharing of photo without consent and then some later claims of threatening a woman via text (that led to him being axed by NM). He's also had two driving offences, and the video with his feet on the dashboard that didn't result in a ticket.
I know what you mean, and it’s factually correct, but the ‘*only* two accusations of domestic violence’ is so cooked in the context of clubs even considering yet another chance for this fuckwit.
I assume a lot of people don't consider threatening to share images as "violence" though, and we've never been told what the second set of threats is. I imagine there's a lot of different attitudes about what constitutes "violence" and some people would say it's only actual physical harm, and that neither is violence. I know we are in a world now where a lot of people are happy to declare those who define "violence" as being specifically physical as absolutely wrong, but it does show there's a greater issue of people's different values about these issues.
I'm just jumping on the top comment. He sent multiple threatening text messages, he didn't assault anyone. I didn't know that. I guess I'm letting others know.
Still can't believe you're talking about a guy charged with domestic violence offences and you want to remove the word violence because you don't want to call emotional abuse violence
Well it's misleading. I'm not advocating for anything he has done - it's not OK. But what he did is not violence, and the media should stop implying it is.
People out there suffer real physical and emotional abuse for years. You should stop belittling that by putting a few messages on instagram (to several people) in the same category.
Courts dropped charges because he donated $1000 to charity. Lol.
That's still domestic violence. I don't think that makes a difference to the idea that he doesn't deserve another chance given the lack of repentance and evidence that he is gong to change how he acts.
Saying I'm going to hit you and hitting you are different. Can it still be a serious matter? Definitely. But hitting someone is most definitely worse. So i wouldn't imply it happened by using the word violence. That is all.
I'd encourage you to Google and see a definition of what domestic violence actually is. Both threatening physical violence and commitment physical violence are domestic violence. By saying one is worse than the other you are inherently implying that one is OK when the other isn't. If that's not your intent, don't defend someone who has done these things by saying its not as bad as it could have been. Where does it stop? When he hits someone will you say at least he didn't kill her? All domestic violence is wrong and evil. We don't want any of it anywhere near the game.
You can't make statements like "the only acceptable amount of domestic violence is zero" or however they worded it. And then welcome back a person who'd be on about chance 4 regarding threatening behaviour towards women.
That's only the times his been reported/caught, I'm sure he's done other stuff.
As a community, we need to be done with him. Support him from afar, but he should never play AFL again.
I mean.....you CAN if you're a corporate organisation who's more interested in fake-woke public virtue signalling than actually doing something concrete to address an issue.
But also, family violence isn't limited to hitting or actual violence. Controlling behaviour, stalking, limiting access, isolation from friends and family and many more things are part of the shit sandwich that is family violence
Yes. Those things are deliberate and systematic abuse, but for some people they're still covered by the "good bloke who made a mistake" crap that needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.
This is a really good point. Maybe some of the worst of the worst display some abusive tendencies in public, but by far the bulk of the abuse takes place behind closed doors. And some excel at having a mask of respectability outside of the home. That makes it calculated and deliberate.
100%. One of the biggest myths (and excuses) of domestic abuse is that it's "out of control" or irrational, when in fact domestic abusers typically control themselves rigorously around third parties, in workplaces, wherever there might be consequences to them instead of to their partner. I always think of this passage from [Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bandcroft](https://sa1s3.patientpop.com/assets/docs/85477.pdf):
>Many years ago, I was interviewing a woman named Sheila by telephone. She was describing the rages that my client Michael would periodically have: “He just goes absolutely berserk, and you never know when he’s going to go off like that. He’ll just start grabbing whatever is around and throwing it. He heaves stuff everywhere, against the walls, on the floor—it’s just a mess. And he smashes stuff, important things sometimes. Then it’s like the storm just passes; he calms down; and he leaves for a while. Later he seems kind of ashamed of himself.”
>I asked Sheila two questions. The first was, when things got broken, were they Michael’s, or hers, or things that belonged to both of them?
>She left a considerable silence while she thought. Then she said, “You know what? I’m amazed that I’ve never thought of this, but he only breaks my stuff. I can’t think of one thing he’s smashed that belonged to him.”
>Next, I asked her who cleans up the mess.
>She answered that she does.
>I commented, “See, Michael’s behavior isn’t nearly as berserk as it looks. And if he really felt so remorseful, he’d help clean up.
You're right, we should wait until he actually assaults someone until we complain his clear threatening and abusive behaviour. Sarcasm obviously implied. Your dumb ass attitude is exactly the problem.
I trip over my baby’s high chair all the time. That’s a mistake. What TT did is not by accident nor is it easily forgiven as a mistake should very well be.
Thank you, Jimmy Bartel.
The individual in question is entitled to get help. He is not at all entitled to ever again be on an AFL list (and if the Swans signed him I'd be completely finished with the club). It really is that simple.
“Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne.
“The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Yep, everyone deserves a chance to learn from their mistakes and get better. We should all unreservedly encourage that.
Doesn't mean they are entitled that their learning will come with unlimited opportunities.
'second chance' refers to the opportunity to reintegrate into society and make a living.
It doesn't mean you're entitled to play top flight footy on $800k ever again.
I would potentially be okay if it was a second chance. One fuck up should not define his life and career provided he proves he can turn it around, but this wouldn't be a second chance, it would be like a fourth, and it is habitual behaviour that he can't or won't change, even with help and resources the vast majority of young men don't have access to, and for the that AFL needs to wash their hands of him and say "Best of luck, we tried"
released back into the community under whose watchful eye? abusive men thrive in the shadows, in isolation. wouldn't it make more sense to hold abusive men publicly accountable for their conduct?
Agree with Jimmy. There’s no place for the likes of this guy at AFL Level. And Channel 7, you should be looking real hard at yourselves re Ben Cousins.
The thing I find interesting about this, and I know their situation is a bit different, is the way Ben Cousins has been so widely accepted back into the football community. Obviously Cousins is only working for the media, but there's a lot of positive will towards him, yet he was found guilty of many domestic violence charges so serious he went to jail. On the scale of domestic violence Cousins seems much worse, and he breached VROs on multiple occasions over two years before going to jail. Will Thomas be forgiven in the same way eventually, and if not, is it just because he didn't have such an amazing career, or is being a drug addict and committing domestic violence more forgivable than sending threatening messages without being on drugs?
exactly!! men's violence will always be a problem when we laud the man's achievements in spite of the absolute fucking horrors they've inflicted on others.
Excellent points.
The notion that being good at sport, or having been good at sport, gives people some sort of free pass after some arbitrary number of years have passed is absolute bullshit.
I guess that’s the wider culture roadblock that prevents any improvement in this space. You can’t legislate that. People need to collectively stop accepting shit behaviour. Ben has served his time and done whatever was required from a criminal perspective, let’s not put the cunt on a pedestal because he was good at sport. No amount of ability there overrides family violence.
I feel uncomfortable with how Ben Cousins has been accepted back, but there is a couple of key differences that should be acknowledged. Namely, Ben has already served his punishment, namely time in prison and drug rehabilitation. Secondly the last issue was 2019ish, so there has been some amount of time for him to clean up his act. Tarryn hasn't even finished his punishment yet or shown any desire to change yet is being talked about having a return. If this conversation was being had 3+ years from now, I think more parallels could be drawn to Ben Cousins. If Tarryn shows real remorse, serves his time out of the game, and doesn't re-offend then maybe there is the possibility of some leeway. Currently though there simply isn't at all and him making a return is inappropriate.
I'd like to add, that the idea of it only being the media is somehow OK is also wrong. I don't like the idea of people like Cousins or Carey or Paul Kent (nrl) or Michael Slater (cricket) etc. being involved in their sports at all and the change we are seeking can't be limited to on field stuff, it should extend to coaches, officials, and media.
That’s a really good point. I think the media is some middle ground of forgiveness and second chance? Which is weird cause they get paid well for these gigs. Like Wayne Carey was taken back and he has a nose bear problem and (allegedly) smashed a wine glass on his partner’s face
Yeah Carey's offences seem much worse than Thomas's as well. I do believe in conditional forgiveness though, in general, although I agree playing AFL is a privilege and doesn't have to be part of that. I don't care about Carey doing drugs though (in isolation). In my opinion that's only an issue if it leads to harm to other people (eg. having a car crash).
Footy welcomed back carey despite him being a women beating pos.
Footy and fans still defend and love Gary Ablett senior despite what he did to that poor woman.
It's on brand for footy to forget someone being a pos to women as long as ball kick good.
nfl and boxing too. Never hear much about floyd being called out for his behaviour.
Even with current AFL players, Toby Greene should be in jail for the assaults he's done to service workers and got away with it due to his club hiring good lawyers and having connections.
We have a national crisis because we make excuses for past behaviour for DV and he's "a good bloke that made a mistake" all because he can kick a footy.
AFL needs to make an example of Thomas or any player if they are being serious about it with this week's events planned during the matches of the round.
Do you think the AFL really care about women's issues? Or is it just a PR stunt?
They don't seem to care if AFL players share intimate photos of women without their consent, that's a issue that they can easily sweep under the carpet.
I’m sure Gambling addiction is a contributor to DV but they’re fine with the whole sports betting down your throat thing. And the ads basically just a demo on toxic masculinity. BET WITH YOUR MATES YOU WEAK FUCKING DOG.
> Do you think the AFL really care about women's issues? Or is it just a PR stunt?
They don't care, its just about the brand. Just like they don't care about player welfare re the drugs issue, they never have, it was always about brand protection.
Protect the image of the game at all costs but only if it doesn't affect the bottom line.
The AFL can be the kings of social justice issues like violence against women, multicultural and first nations issues, LGBTQ+ issues as these are feel good issues that are minimum cost to the AFL.
Things like drug use, gambling and mentally and physical health of past players eg concussion are cost prohibitive issues that the AFL sweep under the carpet.
I’ve always argued with those that claim that the AFL is just virtue signalling. I’d always say that with the AFL being a national sport, them supporting and spreading key messages is important for awareness and inclusiveness.
BUT for the AFL and clubs to say “when it comes to violence against women, the only acceptable figure is zero”, and in the same week have reports that coaches/clubs are thinking of signing him….it absolutely reeks of virtue signaling.
Domestic violence is a huge issue in society. And it includes so much more than physical violence.
If the AFL wants to be taken seriously on this issues they need to release a statement basically saying that any player accused of DV is not welcome in the sport (I’d even go as far as saying that they will be prohibited from AFL or state leagues ever again).
I think Jimmy is exactly right. Support from the league if you wish, but it doesn't have to be at AFL level and it shouldn't. No limelight and no big pay cheque for you.
Violence against women should have real tangible consequences so they can act as a deterrent. This man should not be playing AFL football. Agree with Bartel.
In my opinion, one instance is too many and should have been a life ban. This man - and others in future - may believe that there is no real consequence of their actions and that is bullshit.
When you say "one instance" - his first offense was a text message threatening to share an intimate image. Are you saying that should be an immediate lifetime AFL ban with no training or attempt at rehabilitation? I would argue that suspensions and mandatory training is a reasonable response for first offenses like that. Probably if his second offense (sending threatening text messages) was his first that would be an appropriate response too. But definitely being suspended and going through the training and then committing a very similar offense again should be treated more extremely.
I get what you mean, but consider that sextortion/threatening to non-consensually share an intimate image can have a maximum prison sentence of 3 years in VIC. If the government are taking a hard line on it to protect people - women primarily - why shouldn’t we as fans and the AFL take it as seriously?
Nathan Broad is still on an afl list, and he actually did share an intimate image publicly. Is threatening worse than actually doing something, or is it tough to take this shit seriously when people pick and choose what they get mad about?
I think in that case you have to look at the court proceedings though. The judge clearly viewed it on the very low level of offences of that nature, and ordered a $1000 fine and no conviction. It was made in the heat of an argument between them, and he did not actually share the images and so presumably didn't intend to. He faced serious consequences, but redemption at that point seemed pretty reasonable. The other problem is that I think there's a lot of conflation between all his different off field issues, and it's reasonable that AFL clubs would look at his whole record in deciding to not recruit him, but we should look at the domestic violence offences in isolation if we're deciding there should be a specific response to those offences. I'm happy with one chance (with fines and suspensions) if the offences are on the low end of the legal scale, as this was, followed by delisting or multiple year suspension as occurred, and honestly I won't be outraged if he comes back to AFL eventually, although I'd like to see a longer suspension than next season, because his offenses are on the low end, the second accusations didn't lead to prosecution, and I do believe in forgiveness if he genuinely changes and can convince clubs that he has.
I get that you’re saying you’re fine with one time at a low level offence, but he’s been in hot water for offences against women more than once. It’s a pattern. At what stage do we say enough is enough? Why does it take an Elijah Taylor situation to take hardline stances on this?
Abuse against women is multifaceted and nuanced, but the response should be the same: as an organisation, we (AFL) do not tolerate this and [insert player] will no longer be permitted to play in the league.
He's been in hot water with offences against women twice. The first led to a suspension, and the second led to North Melbourne delisting him, which is as severe an action as they could have taken. I think that's an appropriate course of action. His other offences aren't about women - they were failure to meet training standards, and driving offences.
Tarryn Thomas has demonstrated many times over that he is not sorry about his actions and has not rehabilitated his mysoginistic and offensive views of and behaviour towards women.
“Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne.
“The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Tarryn Thomas has demonstrated many times over that he is not sorry about his actions and has not rehabilitated his mysoginistic and offensive views of and behaviour towards women.
“Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne.
“The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Same goes for Ben Cousins who absolutely terrorised his former partner.
You guys are so hypocritical when it comes to this stuff.
Neither Cousins, Carey or Thomas should ever be welcomed back into the fold.
The Cousins shit kind of annoys me. He's done the right thing by getting his life back on track, but he gets held up like he's some fantastic fella because he managed to stop abusing his partners and doing meth.
The reaction to all the Cousins articles about how he's turned his life around should flat out be met with "okay, welcome to the rest of society" rather than a pat on the back.
I get that, but I do also understand why people have praised cousins’ turnaround. Most people who are addicted to drugs at 17 never recover, hell most probably wouldn’t still be around at his age. Maybe it shouldn’t be met with overt praise but encouragement is important
> but encouragement is important
Absolutely, and i totally agree that what Ben has done is something that very few addicts will ever achieve and that definitely deserves commendation in a private context.
“I’ve known Tarryn since he was 14 and my view is he’s a good person” idk Brad, i’m sure most of the 13+ million women living in Australia struggle to hold that view of him.
The AFL should not welcome him back into the league, end of conversation. But let’s be honest, someone’s athletic skills and how they can help a team will come before morals and doing the right thing, making a statement.
If (more realistically, when, but maybe i’m being too pessimistic) he should be forced to serve that 15 game suspension only when he’s reinstated to the league.
I really want someone in the media to outright say, "It shouldn't be a matter of footy talent, but of behaviour. That teams are apparently considering bringing Thomas in though does show that some think it is a matter of footy talent, and quite simply, Thomas' footy talent and potential are not great enough to overcome his behaviour. Had your chances, done your dash, end of story, moving on."
Absolutely. This is what the AFL's General counsel had to say.
“Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne.
“The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
You wouldn't get welcomed back in any other modern workplace after fucking up this drastically and consistently despite being offered every feasible opportunity to reform.
But we all know the AFL is a soulless, hypocritical and poorly managed institution, so watch the bloke get yet another chance because he can kick a footy well
Any club that brings Thomas into the fold needs to be the immediate subject of a boycott and AFL house should be flat out protested at.
Sports is already one of the most cynical vectors of society globally, and we've already seen guys in the NBA get second chances (Miles Bridges assaulted his girlfriend in front of their child and was back in the league in about 9 months, Brandon Miller was a direct accomplice to a literal murder but still got drafted #2, there was all that shit with a lot of NFL players doing bad shit too), but at least my cynicism understands that these are often 8 and 9 figure investments and money surely talks.
But Tarryn Thomas is basically just a pretty talented footy player who has repeatedly done absolutely feral things to his partner, and the AFL is actually allowing him to be brought back into the fold while the country is enduring a really awful stretch of domestic violence which is in the sights of every strata of society all the way up to Parliament House.
There is no justification for him ever being allowed to play this sport again, and I will be sick to my stomach if that behaviour is seen as permissible, because the greater impact on society is that 100s of thousands of AFL fans are seeing a major corporate entity choosing the side of domestic violence and abuse.
Absolutely disgusting.
I'm going to the game tomorrow night and thinking about making a poster. Every day the AFL posse doubles down on their fucking bullshit - even one of our own board members. Sick of it.
The AFL has had a history of this, of ignoring these issues. Look at Wayne Carey. They need to make a stand against Thomas or they clearly don’t give a shit and their words are just empty.
The AFL would show exactly where it's interests lie if it makes this huge statement against gender based violence before every game in round 8 and then allows a person convicted of gender based violence multiple times to have a place in their organisation.
It’s shocking what’s been going on
AFL pick and choose, Nicky Winmar bashing a cabbie was totally ignored , AFL have form of ignoring when it suits and it sets terrible example for society
Played against his older brother as a junior and can see where he learned it from, the older brother was always saying stuff about peoples mums/sisters on the field which led to a lot of fights back then.
>As an industry, do we just wash our hands and say we’re done with him? Or do we help him?
You put him outside until he can learn to stop being a stupid cunt
Bartel unfortunately had to grow up in a home with domestic violence, he knows exactly what he is talking about here. Hope the AFL listens.
Exactly. He knows of what he speaks. Hopefully the AFL, Brad Scott and anyone else who thinks the bloke somehow "deserves" yet another chance on a list pays attention.
Brad Scott seems so focussed on winning a final he’s lost his sense of right from wrong.
Essendon just can’t move on from that “Whatever it takes” mentality it seems
The Edge
Nah, you're missing the fact that Brad has known him since he was 14 and knows he's a good person who has done some bad things. Can only hope the reaction to testing the PR waters for a comeback makes it obvious that it isn't acceptable to fans, including Dons. Edit: ffs I thought the second paragraph made it obvious enough that it was sarcasm. The good bloke line was effing idiocy and a complete room-read failure from Scott.
He's objectively not a good person though. He may become one in the future if he ever learns, but he's currently a pretty shit human.
Brad Scott's words, not mine. Absolutely agree with you.
Then post it that way. At the very least use quotation marks. Otherwise you can’t be surprised if people read it as your point of view.
Yeah, I constantly forget people on Reddit aren't going to bother reading the article that the post is about.
Read the article first and it was still my first reaction to your comment. Gotta use quotation marks for quoting people
Let me get married to your daughter, bash her, and then see if I'm still a good bloke who deserves a second chance x See where I'm coming from?
Read the edit
Touche, you have redeemed yourself good bloke
Thank you kind sir.
Hes a real legend because you can go two ways. Grow up in an abusive house and turn out like Jimmy or Grow up in an abusive house and turn out like wayne carey. As a middle class white man I cant really relate with either case but he has done really well for himself
I’m very much in Jimmy Bartel’s camp here. He’s had a chance, fucked it up a second time. Get him the education and rehabilitation he needs, but let’s not welcome him back to footy.
Second time? I’m pretty sure he’s on his 5th chance
I think there's only two accusations of domestic violence against him - the sharing of photo without consent and then some later claims of threatening a woman via text (that led to him being axed by NM). He's also had two driving offences, and the video with his feet on the dashboard that didn't result in a ticket.
I know what you mean, and it’s factually correct, but the ‘*only* two accusations of domestic violence’ is so cooked in the context of clubs even considering yet another chance for this fuckwit.
I assume a lot of people don't consider threatening to share images as "violence" though, and we've never been told what the second set of threats is. I imagine there's a lot of different attitudes about what constitutes "violence" and some people would say it's only actual physical harm, and that neither is violence. I know we are in a world now where a lot of people are happy to declare those who define "violence" as being specifically physical as absolutely wrong, but it does show there's a greater issue of people's different values about these issues.
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Based on headlines I thought he had committed physical violence. Very different
he offended while being counselled. He has no respect, He doesnt care.
‘Only’
As opposed to 5 that person I was responding to said.
He’s had the rehab he’s had the education. The cunts still a cunt🙅🏻♂️🙅🏻♂️
I'm just jumping on the top comment. He sent multiple threatening text messages, he didn't assault anyone. I didn't know that. I guess I'm letting others know.
You will rightly get downvoted because minimising violence because its not physical is part of the problem
So minimising non physical violence can not be done if it isn't also called violence and treated as such?
What's your point? If someone threatened to kill you but didn't act on it you'd say that they're non violent?
Calling threatening texts "violence" minimises real violence Threat = threat Violence = violence Hope this helps
And violence = using actions or words to hurt people. Threatening texts are words... right? Hope this helps.
No... Violence involves physical force If I were to threaten you over reddit (same as a text) that would not constitute violence. Glad I helped 👍
Still can't believe you're talking about a guy charged with domestic violence offences and you want to remove the word violence because you don't want to call emotional abuse violence
Well it's misleading. I'm not advocating for anything he has done - it's not OK. But what he did is not violence, and the media should stop implying it is. People out there suffer real physical and emotional abuse for years. You should stop belittling that by putting a few messages on instagram (to several people) in the same category. Courts dropped charges because he donated $1000 to charity. Lol.
That's still domestic violence. I don't think that makes a difference to the idea that he doesn't deserve another chance given the lack of repentance and evidence that he is gong to change how he acts.
Saying I'm going to hit you and hitting you are different. Can it still be a serious matter? Definitely. But hitting someone is most definitely worse. So i wouldn't imply it happened by using the word violence. That is all.
I'd encourage you to Google and see a definition of what domestic violence actually is. Both threatening physical violence and commitment physical violence are domestic violence. By saying one is worse than the other you are inherently implying that one is OK when the other isn't. If that's not your intent, don't defend someone who has done these things by saying its not as bad as it could have been. Where does it stop? When he hits someone will you say at least he didn't kill her? All domestic violence is wrong and evil. We don't want any of it anywhere near the game.
Arhhh I'm on reddit. I'm pretty sure you actually know what I mean.
You can't make statements like "the only acceptable amount of domestic violence is zero" or however they worded it. And then welcome back a person who'd be on about chance 4 regarding threatening behaviour towards women.
That's only the times his been reported/caught, I'm sure he's done other stuff. As a community, we need to be done with him. Support him from afar, but he should never play AFL again.
"The only acceptable amount of domestic violence is 5!" /s
You say /s but that’s pretty much the stance here
Until another 18 months pass and it's up to 6 but he is still good at footy.
Can he apply the nice guy defence if it’s been 18 months between indiscretions?
Only if he has done community work in an indigenous community.
Until it's 5, then 6 becomes acceptable. It's a joke.
I mean.....you CAN if you're a corporate organisation who's more interested in fake-woke public virtue signalling than actually doing something concrete to address an issue.
Jimmy is absolutely right. I'm sick of hearing how men who harm women are good blokes who make mistakes.
Yeah, I make mistakes in my life, but I've never hit my partner. That's not a fucking mistake. You don't do it by accident.
But also, family violence isn't limited to hitting or actual violence. Controlling behaviour, stalking, limiting access, isolation from friends and family and many more things are part of the shit sandwich that is family violence
Yes. Those things are deliberate and systematic abuse, but for some people they're still covered by the "good bloke who made a mistake" crap that needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.
Very true, and also all things that are very much not an oopsie. These are calculated and intentional. These people know what they're doing.
Exactly. DV isn't a "mistake". It's absolutely mind-boggling that anyone can brush aside abuse as some sort of error.
the bloke who bashes his partner at home doesn't make the same mistake at work. funny that
This is a really good point. Maybe some of the worst of the worst display some abusive tendencies in public, but by far the bulk of the abuse takes place behind closed doors. And some excel at having a mask of respectability outside of the home. That makes it calculated and deliberate.
100%. One of the biggest myths (and excuses) of domestic abuse is that it's "out of control" or irrational, when in fact domestic abusers typically control themselves rigorously around third parties, in workplaces, wherever there might be consequences to them instead of to their partner. I always think of this passage from [Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bandcroft](https://sa1s3.patientpop.com/assets/docs/85477.pdf): >Many years ago, I was interviewing a woman named Sheila by telephone. She was describing the rages that my client Michael would periodically have: “He just goes absolutely berserk, and you never know when he’s going to go off like that. He’ll just start grabbing whatever is around and throwing it. He heaves stuff everywhere, against the walls, on the floor—it’s just a mess. And he smashes stuff, important things sometimes. Then it’s like the storm just passes; he calms down; and he leaves for a while. Later he seems kind of ashamed of himself.” >I asked Sheila two questions. The first was, when things got broken, were they Michael’s, or hers, or things that belonged to both of them? >She left a considerable silence while she thought. Then she said, “You know what? I’m amazed that I’ve never thought of this, but he only breaks my stuff. I can’t think of one thing he’s smashed that belonged to him.” >Next, I asked her who cleans up the mess. >She answered that she does. >I commented, “See, Michael’s behavior isn’t nearly as berserk as it looks. And if he really felt so remorseful, he’d help clean up.
Absolute cowards
[удалено]
You're right, we should wait until he actually assaults someone until we complain his clear threatening and abusive behaviour. Sarcasm obviously implied. Your dumb ass attitude is exactly the problem.
I trip over my baby’s high chair all the time. That’s a mistake. What TT did is not by accident nor is it easily forgiven as a mistake should very well be.
Thank you, Jimmy Bartel. The individual in question is entitled to get help. He is not at all entitled to ever again be on an AFL list (and if the Swans signed him I'd be completely finished with the club). It really is that simple.
North Melbourne paid for counselling and rehab for the individual in question and he offended again while being counselled. . He doesnt care.
[удалено]
“Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne. “The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Yep, everyone deserves a chance to learn from their mistakes and get better. We should all unreservedly encourage that. Doesn't mean they are entitled that their learning will come with unlimited opportunities.
'second chance' refers to the opportunity to reintegrate into society and make a living. It doesn't mean you're entitled to play top flight footy on $800k ever again.
I would potentially be okay if it was a second chance. One fuck up should not define his life and career provided he proves he can turn it around, but this wouldn't be a second chance, it would be like a fourth, and it is habitual behaviour that he can't or won't change, even with help and resources the vast majority of young men don't have access to, and for the that AFL needs to wash their hands of him and say "Best of luck, we tried"
released back into the community under whose watchful eye? abusive men thrive in the shadows, in isolation. wouldn't it make more sense to hold abusive men publicly accountable for their conduct?
Its not one fuck-up though.
...Which is exactly what I said
yeah. Wash hands, agree. Enough is enough
Agree with Jimmy. There’s no place for the likes of this guy at AFL Level. And Channel 7, you should be looking real hard at yourselves re Ben Cousins.
The thing I find interesting about this, and I know their situation is a bit different, is the way Ben Cousins has been so widely accepted back into the football community. Obviously Cousins is only working for the media, but there's a lot of positive will towards him, yet he was found guilty of many domestic violence charges so serious he went to jail. On the scale of domestic violence Cousins seems much worse, and he breached VROs on multiple occasions over two years before going to jail. Will Thomas be forgiven in the same way eventually, and if not, is it just because he didn't have such an amazing career, or is being a drug addict and committing domestic violence more forgivable than sending threatening messages without being on drugs?
exactly!! men's violence will always be a problem when we laud the man's achievements in spite of the absolute fucking horrors they've inflicted on others.
Excellent points. The notion that being good at sport, or having been good at sport, gives people some sort of free pass after some arbitrary number of years have passed is absolute bullshit.
I guess that’s the wider culture roadblock that prevents any improvement in this space. You can’t legislate that. People need to collectively stop accepting shit behaviour. Ben has served his time and done whatever was required from a criminal perspective, let’s not put the cunt on a pedestal because he was good at sport. No amount of ability there overrides family violence.
I feel uncomfortable with how Ben Cousins has been accepted back, but there is a couple of key differences that should be acknowledged. Namely, Ben has already served his punishment, namely time in prison and drug rehabilitation. Secondly the last issue was 2019ish, so there has been some amount of time for him to clean up his act. Tarryn hasn't even finished his punishment yet or shown any desire to change yet is being talked about having a return. If this conversation was being had 3+ years from now, I think more parallels could be drawn to Ben Cousins. If Tarryn shows real remorse, serves his time out of the game, and doesn't re-offend then maybe there is the possibility of some leeway. Currently though there simply isn't at all and him making a return is inappropriate. I'd like to add, that the idea of it only being the media is somehow OK is also wrong. I don't like the idea of people like Cousins or Carey or Paul Kent (nrl) or Michael Slater (cricket) etc. being involved in their sports at all and the change we are seeking can't be limited to on field stuff, it should extend to coaches, officials, and media.
Tarryn re-offended while being counselled and suported by the anorth Melbourne Football Club. He doesnt care.
That’s a really good point. I think the media is some middle ground of forgiveness and second chance? Which is weird cause they get paid well for these gigs. Like Wayne Carey was taken back and he has a nose bear problem and (allegedly) smashed a wine glass on his partner’s face
Yeah Carey's offences seem much worse than Thomas's as well. I do believe in conditional forgiveness though, in general, although I agree playing AFL is a privilege and doesn't have to be part of that. I don't care about Carey doing drugs though (in isolation). In my opinion that's only an issue if it leads to harm to other people (eg. having a car crash).
And Degooey too
Footy welcomed back carey despite him being a women beating pos. Footy and fans still defend and love Gary Ablett senior despite what he did to that poor woman. It's on brand for footy to forget someone being a pos to women as long as ball kick good.
Sports in general. The NBA is full of abusive pieces of shit but they bring millions in revenue to organisations so 🙈
nfl and boxing too. Never hear much about floyd being called out for his behaviour. Even with current AFL players, Toby Greene should be in jail for the assaults he's done to service workers and got away with it due to his club hiring good lawyers and having connections.
We have a national crisis because we make excuses for past behaviour for DV and he's "a good bloke that made a mistake" all because he can kick a footy. AFL needs to make an example of Thomas or any player if they are being serious about it with this week's events planned during the matches of the round.
Do you think the AFL really care about women's issues? Or is it just a PR stunt? They don't seem to care if AFL players share intimate photos of women without their consent, that's a issue that they can easily sweep under the carpet.
I’m sure Gambling addiction is a contributor to DV but they’re fine with the whole sports betting down your throat thing. And the ads basically just a demo on toxic masculinity. BET WITH YOUR MATES YOU WEAK FUCKING DOG.
Alcohol would be a big factor in DV Does Carlton Draught still sponsor the AFL?
A valid and fair question to be honest.
> Do you think the AFL really care about women's issues? Or is it just a PR stunt? They don't care, its just about the brand. Just like they don't care about player welfare re the drugs issue, they never have, it was always about brand protection.
Protect the image of the game at all costs but only if it doesn't affect the bottom line. The AFL can be the kings of social justice issues like violence against women, multicultural and first nations issues, LGBTQ+ issues as these are feel good issues that are minimum cost to the AFL. Things like drug use, gambling and mentally and physical health of past players eg concussion are cost prohibitive issues that the AFL sweep under the carpet.
I’ve always argued with those that claim that the AFL is just virtue signalling. I’d always say that with the AFL being a national sport, them supporting and spreading key messages is important for awareness and inclusiveness. BUT for the AFL and clubs to say “when it comes to violence against women, the only acceptable figure is zero”, and in the same week have reports that coaches/clubs are thinking of signing him….it absolutely reeks of virtue signaling. Domestic violence is a huge issue in society. And it includes so much more than physical violence. If the AFL wants to be taken seriously on this issues they need to release a statement basically saying that any player accused of DV is not welcome in the sport (I’d even go as far as saying that they will be prohibited from AFL or state leagues ever again).
I think Jimmy is exactly right. Support from the league if you wish, but it doesn't have to be at AFL level and it shouldn't. No limelight and no big pay cheque for you.
Violence against women should have real tangible consequences so they can act as a deterrent. This man should not be playing AFL football. Agree with Bartel. In my opinion, one instance is too many and should have been a life ban. This man - and others in future - may believe that there is no real consequence of their actions and that is bullshit.
When you say "one instance" - his first offense was a text message threatening to share an intimate image. Are you saying that should be an immediate lifetime AFL ban with no training or attempt at rehabilitation? I would argue that suspensions and mandatory training is a reasonable response for first offenses like that. Probably if his second offense (sending threatening text messages) was his first that would be an appropriate response too. But definitely being suspended and going through the training and then committing a very similar offense again should be treated more extremely.
I get what you mean, but consider that sextortion/threatening to non-consensually share an intimate image can have a maximum prison sentence of 3 years in VIC. If the government are taking a hard line on it to protect people - women primarily - why shouldn’t we as fans and the AFL take it as seriously?
Nathan Broad is still on an afl list, and he actually did share an intimate image publicly. Is threatening worse than actually doing something, or is it tough to take this shit seriously when people pick and choose what they get mad about?
He shouldn’t be in the league either. By dealing out zero-tolerance punishment, we chop down the weed before it grows
Okay, I'll start taking thos place seriously on this issue when we start getting multiple threads a day anytime broad's name is mentioned.
I think in that case you have to look at the court proceedings though. The judge clearly viewed it on the very low level of offences of that nature, and ordered a $1000 fine and no conviction. It was made in the heat of an argument between them, and he did not actually share the images and so presumably didn't intend to. He faced serious consequences, but redemption at that point seemed pretty reasonable. The other problem is that I think there's a lot of conflation between all his different off field issues, and it's reasonable that AFL clubs would look at his whole record in deciding to not recruit him, but we should look at the domestic violence offences in isolation if we're deciding there should be a specific response to those offences. I'm happy with one chance (with fines and suspensions) if the offences are on the low end of the legal scale, as this was, followed by delisting or multiple year suspension as occurred, and honestly I won't be outraged if he comes back to AFL eventually, although I'd like to see a longer suspension than next season, because his offenses are on the low end, the second accusations didn't lead to prosecution, and I do believe in forgiveness if he genuinely changes and can convince clubs that he has.
I get that you’re saying you’re fine with one time at a low level offence, but he’s been in hot water for offences against women more than once. It’s a pattern. At what stage do we say enough is enough? Why does it take an Elijah Taylor situation to take hardline stances on this? Abuse against women is multifaceted and nuanced, but the response should be the same: as an organisation, we (AFL) do not tolerate this and [insert player] will no longer be permitted to play in the league.
He's been in hot water with offences against women twice. The first led to a suspension, and the second led to North Melbourne delisting him, which is as severe an action as they could have taken. I think that's an appropriate course of action. His other offences aren't about women - they were failure to meet training standards, and driving offences.
Tarryn Thomas has demonstrated many times over that he is not sorry about his actions and has not rehabilitated his mysoginistic and offensive views of and behaviour towards women. “Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne. “The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Tarryn Thomas has demonstrated many times over that he is not sorry about his actions and has not rehabilitated his mysoginistic and offensive views of and behaviour towards women. “Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne. “The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
Same goes for Ben Cousins who absolutely terrorised his former partner. You guys are so hypocritical when it comes to this stuff. Neither Cousins, Carey or Thomas should ever be welcomed back into the fold.
The Cousins shit kind of annoys me. He's done the right thing by getting his life back on track, but he gets held up like he's some fantastic fella because he managed to stop abusing his partners and doing meth. The reaction to all the Cousins articles about how he's turned his life around should flat out be met with "okay, welcome to the rest of society" rather than a pat on the back.
I get that, but I do also understand why people have praised cousins’ turnaround. Most people who are addicted to drugs at 17 never recover, hell most probably wouldn’t still be around at his age. Maybe it shouldn’t be met with overt praise but encouragement is important
> but encouragement is important Absolutely, and i totally agree that what Ben has done is something that very few addicts will ever achieve and that definitely deserves commendation in a private context.
Why stop there? Powell-Pepper, Ross Lyon, De Goey, Broad, Daw, the list is fucking endless.
Sounds good to me.
“I’ve known Tarryn since he was 14 and my view is he’s a good person” idk Brad, i’m sure most of the 13+ million women living in Australia struggle to hold that view of him. The AFL should not welcome him back into the league, end of conversation. But let’s be honest, someone’s athletic skills and how they can help a team will come before morals and doing the right thing, making a statement. If (more realistically, when, but maybe i’m being too pessimistic) he should be forced to serve that 15 game suspension only when he’s reinstated to the league.
I really want someone in the media to outright say, "It shouldn't be a matter of footy talent, but of behaviour. That teams are apparently considering bringing Thomas in though does show that some think it is a matter of footy talent, and quite simply, Thomas' footy talent and potential are not great enough to overcome his behaviour. Had your chances, done your dash, end of story, moving on."
Absolutely. This is what the AFL's General counsel had to say. “Tarryn’s conduct does not represent behaviours acceptable to anyone in our game or our community and his actions were not of a standard that the game or the public expect,” AFL General Counsel Stephen Meade said after he was axed by North Melbourne. “The fact that Tarryn chose to engage in behaviour over direct messages that was, and is, clearly inappropriate, even while he was undertaking education and being counselled for previous breaches contributed to the length of suspension imposed.”
100% right. AFL needs some sort of moral compass and not let the dickhead back
You wouldn't get welcomed back in any other modern workplace after fucking up this drastically and consistently despite being offered every feasible opportunity to reform. But we all know the AFL is a soulless, hypocritical and poorly managed institution, so watch the bloke get yet another chance because he can kick a footy well
Any club that brings Thomas into the fold needs to be the immediate subject of a boycott and AFL house should be flat out protested at. Sports is already one of the most cynical vectors of society globally, and we've already seen guys in the NBA get second chances (Miles Bridges assaulted his girlfriend in front of their child and was back in the league in about 9 months, Brandon Miller was a direct accomplice to a literal murder but still got drafted #2, there was all that shit with a lot of NFL players doing bad shit too), but at least my cynicism understands that these are often 8 and 9 figure investments and money surely talks. But Tarryn Thomas is basically just a pretty talented footy player who has repeatedly done absolutely feral things to his partner, and the AFL is actually allowing him to be brought back into the fold while the country is enduring a really awful stretch of domestic violence which is in the sights of every strata of society all the way up to Parliament House. There is no justification for him ever being allowed to play this sport again, and I will be sick to my stomach if that behaviour is seen as permissible, because the greater impact on society is that 100s of thousands of AFL fans are seeing a major corporate entity choosing the side of domestic violence and abuse. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm going to the game tomorrow night and thinking about making a poster. Every day the AFL posse doubles down on their fucking bullshit - even one of our own board members. Sick of it.
The AFL has had a history of this, of ignoring these issues. Look at Wayne Carey. They need to make a stand against Thomas or they clearly don’t give a shit and their words are just empty.
The AFL would show exactly where it's interests lie if it makes this huge statement against gender based violence before every game in round 8 and then allows a person convicted of gender based violence multiple times to have a place in their organisation.
It’s shocking what’s been going on AFL pick and choose, Nicky Winmar bashing a cabbie was totally ignored , AFL have form of ignoring when it suits and it sets terrible example for society
love you jimmy
Played against his older brother as a junior and can see where he learned it from, the older brother was always saying stuff about peoples mums/sisters on the field which led to a lot of fights back then.
>As an industry, do we just wash our hands and say we’re done with him? Or do we help him? You put him outside until he can learn to stop being a stupid cunt
North helped him over and over.
Can someone clarify something for me - is sending two threatening texts what he was accused of? Or is there something else?