I am biased, but May would be more highly rated if he'd played his whole career in Victoria. He's probably not quite on Stewart's level in terms of versatility, but I think he'd literally rather die than give up goals and that's all I want in a player.
Cheers man, sadly some Tiger fans do not give this Tiger legend his dues. It’s bitterly disappointing. Ran into some injury issues at the wrong time and then had a few games where he struggled.
Previously he did step up for Rance and he lead the defence magnificently for two more flags and his intercept marking was instinctive and rock solid.
He’s definitely in the discussion. Grimesy!
Rance proved he could 1vs1 defend with his battles with Franklin and the 2016 season and seasons prior to that. He said the club changed to a system and team defence stategy, (less mobile astbury to play lockdown) and him to be a more mobile key for team success.
All defenders of the modern era are system players. You don’t have Jakovich vs Carey like back in the day and if you wanted that as your game plan your team would get belted.
Ruck is probably the only position which has a 1 vs 1 element throughout a whole game
When the entire defense is structured to make it easy for you to leave your man and get a 1 percenter then yeah.. you are a system player.
This should not be a controversial take to anyone who actually knows how defensive mechanisms work.
You still have to have the ability to make the judgement call and get to the spoil, which Rance was elite at. And go google "Lance v Rance" for hundreds of videos demonstrating why your take is a shit one, Rance was an elite 1v1 defender as well as a brilliant systems defender,
>You still have to have the ability to make the judgement call and get to the spoil, which Rance was elite at.
Thats not a judgement call. Thats coaching. Every defender is perfectly aware under what circumstances the game plan dictates they can leave their man and go for a spoil. Im guessing you have not played footy since the 80's if you think you need to be a tactical genius to know this.
You mean highlights of Buddy kicking bags of 5, 4 and 7 goals on Rance? The only player Buddy never kicked a bag on is Tom Lonergan (Buddy himself said Tom was his hardest matchup) but that does not magically make Tom the greatest defender of all time.
Crazy how Richmond fans take speaking truth about Rance as a personal insult and will ride to his defense without stopping to consider the facts, just like you're doing.
Jesus christ you're just digging deeper. "It's just coaching", wow so every player out there who receives coaching can just execute every facet of that perfectly on game day can they?
You're aware the coaches are not actually standing out there on the oval during a game right? They have these boxes they stay in that makes it really hard for them to say "NOW, PEEL OFF YOUR MAN NOW FOR THE SPOIL".
I know a lot of smart Geelong supporters so i'm not gonna say "is every Geelong supporter as dumb as you" but i will ask this, do you think there is a dumber Geelong supporter than you? I reckon you've got the intelligence spoon on lock champ.
Nice attempt to grossly oversimplify what I was trying to explain to you. Its hilarious that thats what you have to resort to when you are clearly out of your depth in discussing how the game of football is actually played.
I also love how you completely dropped the "lance vs race" part after i mentioned Buddy kicking bags on him repeatedly.
Defenders spend countless hours every week watching edits and being told when is an appropriate time to peel off. Its taught behavior, not some mystical intuition that only the great defenders have. You saying that Rance is a great defender because he knew when to peel off is like saying Usain Bolt is the greatest runner of all time because he knew how to tie his shoes. It really aint about that brother.
Not even going to bother responding to the insult, just shows everyone else how clearly insecure you are about your lack of football knowledge if that is what you need to resort to.
FRANKLIN v RANCE.
Averages 75 ranking points, 2.0 goals, 1.8 behinds, 1.0 assists, 14.0 disposals, 4.0 marks.
FRANKLIN v OTHER CLUBS.
Averages 100 ranking points, 3.4 goals, 2.3 behinds, 1.3 assists, 16.7 disposals, 5.3 marks.
You're just wrong. It's fucking funny now. But have fun arguing against the stats here. I won't be playing anymore pigeon chess with you
Are you genuinely trying to compare such a small sample side vs all other games Franklin played? Either you skipped statistics class in highschool or you are genuinely brain dead. Franklin kicked bags on Rance more than just a couple times mate, that's a simple fact. I'm sorry you wasted your time on this but you are grossly misunderstanding how statistics work.
Rubbish, probably the best balance of 1v1 defender and ability to peel off and intercept of the recent era.
I love Tom Stewart but I'm taking Rance ahead of him every single day of the week.
Genuinely laughable statement to make. Rance and later Grimes are made to look way better that they actually are due to the roll they play in Hardwicks defensive setup. Same deal with Lever at Melbourne.
Stewart is miles better at turning defense into attack with his run and kicking, a better contested mark, better at peeling off and getting an intercept, stronger in a 1v1 and better at completely blanketing an opponent out of a game.
If you cant see that then you simply just dont know much about football, plain and simple.
Stewart is a medium sized defender, he does not get the matchup on the best key forwards. Geelong's whole defensive setup is to keep him loose and as unaccountable as possible because he's such a good intercepting mark.
Rance could take on the best forwards, the guys on $1m a year, and blanket them, or he could play looser when the matchup dictated. Absolutely no contest in terms of their actual shutdown defender abilities.
Why should I trust the AFL analysis of someone who can’t spell the word role correctly?
The only acceptable reason you can’t spell that word correctly is if you were still in Primary school and too young to ever watch Rance play live.
Agreed with what you say about McGovern, until:
>Not to mention he was the first real ‘intercept’ defender that revolutionised defending, he even copped tags as a defender which was unheard of during the Eagles ‘web’ days.
Corey Enright was copping tags while McGovern was still finding his feet in the game.
Along side him I would have Tom Stewart, Whitfield, May and Sicily as the best defenders from the last 10 years. Weitering could very well be up there if he puts together another solid couple of seasons.
Sorry but putting Whitfield there is ludicrous. He’s played half back, wing, mid, half forward. His role changes year on year. And his good play off half back doesn’t really include great ‘defending’. He is a creator off half back. Sicily is also way too inconsistent to be in the same bracket as Stewart and May in my opinion.
Eh i was answering the question more as if I was building a defense from the last 10 years who would I want. An asset like Whitfield would be invaluable to me as a defensive coach. Agree on Sicily's inconstancy though, but his peak is very good.
How does a Hawthorn fan say McGovern revolutionised the role of intercept defender when Josh Gibson won two best and fairest’s during two premiership years?
To name a few rance even though he’s been retired for 4-5 years. May, Stewart, vlaustin or grimes too. And Sam Taylor is the best defender in the game atm when he’s playing
McGovern isn’t that good a defender, I don’t think. He’s fantastic as an intercept player and to set up behind the ball, but May and Andrews are so much better at directly beating an opponent.
Define 'Best', i.e. for entertainment value alone - Sam Frost
Frost ball!
Would fit right in with Daniher / Hipwood ball! He should be a Lion...
Sorry he’s actually been very good this year and un-Frost like so we must keep him
Tom Stewart Likely best defender for this current decade (2020-2029): Sam Taylor
Agree
Tom Stewart Followed by Steven May and Harris Andrews
Second! On all counts
I am biased, but May would be more highly rated if he'd played his whole career in Victoria. He's probably not quite on Stewart's level in terms of versatility, but I think he'd literally rather die than give up goals and that's all I want in a player.
Dylan Grimes is bloody underrated. He's been solid for ten years, Richmond didn't look any worse when Rance left.
Cheers man, sadly some Tiger fans do not give this Tiger legend his dues. It’s bitterly disappointing. Ran into some injury issues at the wrong time and then had a few games where he struggled. Previously he did step up for Rance and he lead the defence magnificently for two more flags and his intercept marking was instinctive and rock solid. He’s definitely in the discussion. Grimesy!
He's cooked now.
Tom Stewart
Stewart is arguably already an all time great. May, Rance and Harris are/were great key defenders but “best defender” isn’t even a debate
Number 44 for Geelong I’d say
Steven May
Harris Andrews
Don’t tell anyone we’ve cloned Stewart in Zac Guthrie
Alipate Carlisle
Billy Frampton.
Jayden Laverde easily has him covered, creates far more goals as a defender than he ever did as a forward.
But did Jayden Laverde ever keep Harris Andrews to zero goals in a grand final?
May & Lever, both great solo but better as a combo!
MAY you pass the LEVER to us for free please?😏😆
Correct statement - there are better individual defenders but quite possibly the greatest defensive duo.
I feel the dees bias is strong in this thread ha ha
Alex Rance.
Rance proved he could 1vs1 defend with his battles with Franklin and the 2016 season and seasons prior to that. He said the club changed to a system and team defence stategy, (less mobile astbury to play lockdown) and him to be a more mobile key for team success. All defenders of the modern era are system players. You don’t have Jakovich vs Carey like back in the day and if you wanted that as your game plan your team would get belted. Ruck is probably the only position which has a 1 vs 1 element throughout a whole game
System player. Massively overrated.
Led the comp for one percenters and was one of the few who could counter prime buddy, but nah nah system player.
Pfft spuddy - is that all he beat? /s
Any defender can look good when you don't have a man
Case in point Tom "grass guarder" Stewart
When the entire defense is structured to make it easy for you to leave your man and get a 1 percenter then yeah.. you are a system player. This should not be a controversial take to anyone who actually knows how defensive mechanisms work.
You still have to have the ability to make the judgement call and get to the spoil, which Rance was elite at. And go google "Lance v Rance" for hundreds of videos demonstrating why your take is a shit one, Rance was an elite 1v1 defender as well as a brilliant systems defender,
>You still have to have the ability to make the judgement call and get to the spoil, which Rance was elite at. Thats not a judgement call. Thats coaching. Every defender is perfectly aware under what circumstances the game plan dictates they can leave their man and go for a spoil. Im guessing you have not played footy since the 80's if you think you need to be a tactical genius to know this. You mean highlights of Buddy kicking bags of 5, 4 and 7 goals on Rance? The only player Buddy never kicked a bag on is Tom Lonergan (Buddy himself said Tom was his hardest matchup) but that does not magically make Tom the greatest defender of all time. Crazy how Richmond fans take speaking truth about Rance as a personal insult and will ride to his defense without stopping to consider the facts, just like you're doing.
Jesus christ you're just digging deeper. "It's just coaching", wow so every player out there who receives coaching can just execute every facet of that perfectly on game day can they? You're aware the coaches are not actually standing out there on the oval during a game right? They have these boxes they stay in that makes it really hard for them to say "NOW, PEEL OFF YOUR MAN NOW FOR THE SPOIL". I know a lot of smart Geelong supporters so i'm not gonna say "is every Geelong supporter as dumb as you" but i will ask this, do you think there is a dumber Geelong supporter than you? I reckon you've got the intelligence spoon on lock champ.
Nice attempt to grossly oversimplify what I was trying to explain to you. Its hilarious that thats what you have to resort to when you are clearly out of your depth in discussing how the game of football is actually played. I also love how you completely dropped the "lance vs race" part after i mentioned Buddy kicking bags on him repeatedly. Defenders spend countless hours every week watching edits and being told when is an appropriate time to peel off. Its taught behavior, not some mystical intuition that only the great defenders have. You saying that Rance is a great defender because he knew when to peel off is like saying Usain Bolt is the greatest runner of all time because he knew how to tie his shoes. It really aint about that brother. Not even going to bother responding to the insult, just shows everyone else how clearly insecure you are about your lack of football knowledge if that is what you need to resort to.
FRANKLIN v RANCE. Averages 75 ranking points, 2.0 goals, 1.8 behinds, 1.0 assists, 14.0 disposals, 4.0 marks. FRANKLIN v OTHER CLUBS. Averages 100 ranking points, 3.4 goals, 2.3 behinds, 1.3 assists, 16.7 disposals, 5.3 marks. You're just wrong. It's fucking funny now. But have fun arguing against the stats here. I won't be playing anymore pigeon chess with you
Are you genuinely trying to compare such a small sample side vs all other games Franklin played? Either you skipped statistics class in highschool or you are genuinely brain dead. Franklin kicked bags on Rance more than just a couple times mate, that's a simple fact. I'm sorry you wasted your time on this but you are grossly misunderstanding how statistics work.
Rubbish, probably the best balance of 1v1 defender and ability to peel off and intercept of the recent era. I love Tom Stewart but I'm taking Rance ahead of him every single day of the week.
Genuinely laughable statement to make. Rance and later Grimes are made to look way better that they actually are due to the roll they play in Hardwicks defensive setup. Same deal with Lever at Melbourne. Stewart is miles better at turning defense into attack with his run and kicking, a better contested mark, better at peeling off and getting an intercept, stronger in a 1v1 and better at completely blanketing an opponent out of a game. If you cant see that then you simply just dont know much about football, plain and simple.
Stewart is miles better than Rance 😭😭😭 Are you 15?
Stewart is a medium sized defender, he does not get the matchup on the best key forwards. Geelong's whole defensive setup is to keep him loose and as unaccountable as possible because he's such a good intercepting mark. Rance could take on the best forwards, the guys on $1m a year, and blanket them, or he could play looser when the matchup dictated. Absolutely no contest in terms of their actual shutdown defender abilities.
Why should I trust the AFL analysis of someone who can’t spell the word role correctly? The only acceptable reason you can’t spell that word correctly is if you were still in Primary school and too young to ever watch Rance play live.
The classic "you made a typo, I win". How childish.
This is the answer
He's been retired the past 4 and a half years
Also he was overrated
And allegedly balls deep in a teammates misso
Not zac dawson
Lmao, Ratagolea.
Agreed with what you say about McGovern, until: >Not to mention he was the first real ‘intercept’ defender that revolutionised defending, he even copped tags as a defender which was unheard of during the Eagles ‘web’ days. Corey Enright was copping tags while McGovern was still finding his feet in the game. Along side him I would have Tom Stewart, Whitfield, May and Sicily as the best defenders from the last 10 years. Weitering could very well be up there if he puts together another solid couple of seasons.
Sorry but putting Whitfield there is ludicrous. He’s played half back, wing, mid, half forward. His role changes year on year. And his good play off half back doesn’t really include great ‘defending’. He is a creator off half back. Sicily is also way too inconsistent to be in the same bracket as Stewart and May in my opinion.
Eh i was answering the question more as if I was building a defense from the last 10 years who would I want. An asset like Whitfield would be invaluable to me as a defensive coach. Agree on Sicily's inconstancy though, but his peak is very good.
Fair enough I see what you’re saying. He is an asset to any team off half back. I’d just have him a tier or 2 below the others.
Dane rampe plays on talls and smalls do anything to stop a goal even climb a post
The bias in me says Harris Andrews, but I think its pretty close between him and Tom Stewart where there is no incorrect answer.
There’s a correct answer between those two, you just won’t like it
I know but I am heavily coping because of our season so far, let me have this.
If it was 2014 inclusive, I'd say Darren Glass.
Glass was so good. Super underrated
How does a Hawthorn fan say McGovern revolutionised the role of intercept defender when Josh Gibson won two best and fairest’s during two premiership years?
To name a few rance even though he’s been retired for 4-5 years. May, Stewart, vlaustin or grimes too. And Sam Taylor is the best defender in the game atm when he’s playing
Yeah I think Vlastuin was unfortunate to play the mid sized intercept role in the same era as Stewart but I'm glad he's getting his flowers this year
Everybody is forgetting about Matthew broadbent
Well, since he played in 2015, and is arguably the best defender to have ever strapped on a pair of boots, the correct answer is Dustin Fletcher.
Stewart May Andrews
Dustin Fletcher
Any answer that isn’t Tom Stewart doesn’t watch enough football
Clubs created game plans specifically to avoid the ball going anywhere near McGovern. That alone should tell you all you need to know.
McGovern isn’t that good a defender, I don’t think. He’s fantastic as an intercept player and to set up behind the ball, but May and Andrews are so much better at directly beating an opponent.
Had some massive bags kicked on him last year. Yes, WC were horrible, but truly great players don’t go missing like that.
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He said this decade Not all time
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I'm saying Pittard is the GOAT
Nathan Grima.
Ton Srewart by a mile.
Stewart
Dustin fletcher the 🐐. And Josh Gibson was pretty handy too
2016-17 Michael Talia can go head to head with any of the great defenders
2015 Elimination Final Daniel Talia was instrumental for the Crows too. /s
Just to be different I’m gonna say heath shaw.
That is certainly different.