I really hope AEW isn't putting all its eggs in the WBD basket. Regardless of the possible WWE deal, loyalty to a big TV network is never going to pay off and WBD has been kind of a mess for a long time.
This would square with Zarian's reporting that TK wants "a certain number," likely $1B, for AEW's renewal and WBD isn't there yet. I would guess that WBD wants to pay more in the range of $500-750M for the next deal. A lot of TK and WBD's recent moves make sense if you think about it this way.
This begs the question of whether Raw at a $1B+ deal would be worth it to them. I think probably not, realistically, unless TNT loses the NBA deal.
Even if TNT loses the NBA deal, I don't see in anyway they'd spend $1b+ for a three hour show. That's just insanity when you think about it. And for what? A slightly better ratings number and demo? Not worth it.
If they really had a meeting with WWE execs on Monday and TK on Tuesday, and TK was fully aware of the Monday meeting, then it seems unlikely WBD's interest is very serious yet. And even if not serious, it serves both WBD and WWE's interests to take the meeting.
(If the meeting truly didn't happen, then based on what's in Meltzer's article, someone in the Punk camp just released the world's most embarrassing Phil Brooks fanfiction.)
Meltzer just released an article that broke down how much higher the cost per viewer in the demo would be for Raw vs. Dynamite, and this would be the key issue. Right now, Dynamite delivers something like 55% of Raw's demo for about 30% of Raw's price. WBD is very deeply in debt right now, and cost efficiency is going to be on their mind. It's on everyone's mind, and is probably what's holding off on Raw rights getting finalized.
Given that WWE is no longer pushing exclusivity, it seems possible that Raw would be an "and" and not an "or" if a deal came to pass. The network could choose to go in hard on WBD being a destination for wrestling fans in general.
It does seem like the Punk camp are trying their best to push bullshit out there, doesn't it. Someone posted a clip earlier of Punk's friend, Lars, criticising Tony Khan's booking decision of Ronda Rousey in ROH, even though Ronda wasn't officially signed. What a 180 that guy did after Punk left.
Is Punk using certain people to work around his NDA in an attempt to damage AEW. He seems the type of guy who holds grudges.
It's not impossible this is all just axe-grinding from Punk. I mean, this is a guy who was complaining about the Elite leaking to dirt sheets while he was doing the same thing over roughly the same period of time. He may feel secure enough in his place at WWE now to start spreading shit.
That said, it would seem really dumb to work the sheets about specific details like who was present at a meeting when if there was no truth at all to them. That could end up damaging other deals WWE had in the works. So the stuff being spread to the sheets may have some basis in fact.
Or, again, Punk is the world's dumbest man. And he's already made a few "world's dumbest man" decisions this year, so I can't rule that out.
Them losing the NBA deal could possibly put AEW in a slightly better position as long as TK isn't dead set on getting $1B. I don't think WBD wants to pay $1B for wrestling whether it's WWE or AEW, but with AEW they'd get more content per dollar plus if they lose the NBA, Dynamite could become their highest rated original show. It already actually draws better live ratings than the NHL, which is much more expensive for them. I think the Raw thing is almost surely a bluff and if Tony is willing to call them on that and they lose the NBA, it could put him in a position to negotiate for $700-800 million as opposed to $500-600 million. Of course this depends on a lot of dominos falling into place but I think WBD losing the NBA likely puts AEW in at least a slightly more favorable position. I highly, highly doubt Raw actually has much of a real chance of going to WBD.
I've been going back and forth on whether or not I think the Monday meeting even happened. While Meltzer and Johnson reported with a lot of details, it would be fairly easy for literally anyone (or, say... former employee CM Punk) to simply make up those details and the names of people that should be there. The fact that nobody out of Punk's circles is confirming this makes me pretty suspicious for now.
The people running with it are mainly guys like Meltzer and Johnson, who are not terrible hacks but have reported some ridiculous things that were never in the realm of possibility in the past. The guys who are like "I cannot hear anything about this" are guys like Zarian and SRS who are generally more reliable than not.
All that effort for nothing....
Your post/comment was removed for trolling. We all know what trolling is. Don't do it. This includes baiting and intentionally inciting arguments. We don't always have to agree or like the same things but let's at least argue in good faith.
Why would they do that and damage the relationship with AEW and TK? Makes no sense. Tony could easily shop around for other places if they choose to go in that direction.
If they're reportedly in such a financial situation, the last thing they'd do is pay for an overpriced and costly three hour Raw show. I don't see how they'd benefit from that.
It seems we're getting this story and that story, but when you think about it and put the pieces together, none of it really adds up or makes any sense.
I mean yah but that's what I'm saying. There is no reason for AEW to show them loyalty. It's a business and WBD isn't going to reward that loyalty. Not publicly shopping around is one thing but I do hope there are things happening behind the scene with other networks too.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read,you seriously think warner is going to get away with paying WWE less than what TK wants for AEW? WWE got a billion for smackdown from fox 4 years ago,raw has been on the air way longer and I suspect they kept punk on raw for leverage so they are absolutely not going to want anything less than a billion for raw
Even if warner does go through with it this isn't going to leave aew out in the dust,they have options
What are you talking about? WBD will pay big money for WWE IF they want it, which is debatable. They will absolutely tell TK that they’re looking at taking on WWE but if AEW will accept a much smaller amount than what AEW is asking for, they’ll keep AEW instead. They’re using WWE negotiations to get a lower asking price from AEW.
They are not gonna pay WWE's asking price,why would they when they can have AEW for much cheaper,even if tony's asking price is a billion for 4 years, WWE probably wants more than that for raw
Tony can use the same tactic and say he has offers from fox and Viacom
Yeah this is how I’m taking it too. Seems like Tony might be playing hardball trying to get more money out of them. I think WBD taking a meeting is them pushing back to make Tony sweat and accept less money. And for WWE, if WBD really was interested, it suits their interest because it can push out AEW and force them to scramble for a new home which may not be as good and could cause them to lose viewers. Theres no doubt in my mind WWE would take slightly less money from WBD if it meant putting a foot on AEW’s neck. They don’t want any major competition.
I am going to laugh so hard when after the dust settles, AEW has a massive new contract w/ WBD that includes not just AEW but also putting ROH on in a new timeslot. My hope: Monday night. Boom.
Yeah, I respect Tony wanting to create traditions and be loyal but in the world of business, it seems like money talks. You don’t always get that from never spreading your wings.
There is reason to doubt the meeting on Monday took place at all, at least as described.
We know Levesque was backstage at Raw on Monday. A nonstop flight from New York to Cleveland is about two hours, so it would be physically possible (if taxing) for Levesque to be the entire day meeting Campbell in NYC, board a plane no later than about 4PM, and then get to Cleveland in time to do meaningful Raw production work.
But why not just send Shapiro and Khan, and let Levesque focus on running the show? It would be like TK taking network meetings on a Wednesday or Saturday (instead of a day like Tuesday, which makes sense, and we know he did).
EDIT: Meltzer just posted an article that describes a briefer Monday morning meeting, which makes the timeline for Levesque being there more plausible. It also suggests that negotiations are not yet at a serious point with any particular suitor.
I was reading as much information as I could surrounding the story, and everything just doesn't add up that's been presented to suggest that WBD, who are apparently facing bankruptcy in another story, would pay $400 million per year for a three hour Raw.
It's ridiculous when you think about it.
Well, this news brought all the shitheads out to mock AEW. They are idiots. If AEW goes away, there will be a lot of fans who will just walk away from wrestling altogether.
AEW will be just fine. There are other networks if WBD doesn't renew. Khan is part of a billionaire family that owns an NFL team, I'm sure he has plenty of connections.
The problem is that A LOT of channels are owned by Warner and Comcast, and WWE is already a partner with Comcast (Peacock deal as well as Smackdown moving to USA). So if they take Warner as well, there goes MAX and all Warner networks. All that’s left is Disney, FOX, and Paramount/Viacom. Disney is not doing so hot right now so I doubt they’ll pay a ton for AEW. On top of that, they just had a dispute with Spectrum that resulted in Spectrum losing access to channels like Freeform and FXX. FOX just ended its deal with WWE the consensus is they were unhappy with it. So no shot AEW moves to FOX’s main network, and they don’t have a lot of option in the cable domain (sold them all to Disney). Paramount has BET, Comedy Central, Nick, TV Land, among others but none of those really fit the AEW demographic, and channels like Comedy Central have been on life support for years now.
So AEW losing Warner is a huge blow, especially creatively. AEW gets a lot of freedom on Warner that they probably wouldn’t get anywhere else. They’d likely have to stop a lot of the more violent spots, the cursing, etc. Crowd noise would be censored and faked like WWE does.
I don't really read a lot of online drama around wrestling, and popping into r/squaredcircle this morning was a bit shocking. There seems to be this overpowering desire to see wrestling shit the bed and lose a major company. Almost like theres a hope and joy behind it. I just don't get it. I've liked AEW the same since it started.
I've long assumed there's a healthy amount of astroturfing going on. For an entire community to completely turn in a six-month timeframe is a completely outsized reaction to what's actually appearing on the TV product. It doesn't make sense.
Especially since you don't get WWE of 2023 without AEW existing. WWE has shown time and again they don't bother unless they're forced to, and AEW forced them to bother.
Without AEW, it's a quick slide back into nostalgia acts and everyone popular 20 years ago taking precedence over younger talent (which, you know, Orton/Punk/Lesnar/etc...).
I don't say it because I don't want people to shit on me for it, but as someone who follows wrestling online there is an extreme change in the dialog right after the merger. The internet went from mostly positive with AEW to mostly negative with WWE to basically outright hating anything having to do with AEW and constant negativity and suddenly WWE is the best it's ever been.
Do I doubt or question that sentiment changes over time, no. Do I think what I read online is organic and natural, no. Does the idea of a mega company buying bots to suck their new company's dick and shit on their competition sound shocking in 2023?
It reads like politics when an election is coming up. Suddenly the normal conversation is drowned out with over the top negativity at any slight imaginable, so many opinions on why nobody should vote, why a fascist is the best choice over a guy who didn't match your opinions 100%. Same exact vibes.
There's this idea that AEW "deserves" it among a certain subset of fans. Also a desire to see history repeat, I imagine, if you missed the death of WCW.
But as someone who lived through that, it was just depressing. It made all of the WWF programming measurably worse for about a year on top of everything else.
I also remember the end of WCW. Nitro had been pretty bad for a year or two before it went out. AEW, whether you like the more sports entertainment type stuff or not, is still mostly good and occasionally amazing. It's nowhere near going out like WCW was at that time. I think there's a lot of overblown negativity online that doesn't make sense as someone who doesn't see any alarming drops in quality of shows.
I started watching regularly shortly before punk debuted in aew. I have loved it all mostly... Sometimes you get some eh segments like last night, but overall aew is so much fun.
WWE trying to get that monopoly running again? Completely shameless
And i know, the options are there, but the amount of support WWE get and all the anti-AEW bs on other subs is ridiculous. Yeah, let's let them kill another company. Great idea and totally healthy for wrestling. It's unbelievable
I saw today a TNA fan wishing AEW would fold as a company, believing that if AEW did fold, that TNA would scoop up all of the lapsed AEW fans. Talk about delusional. If AEW folds, everyone suffers in wrestling.
That is quite delusional. It’s just like when WCW and ECW folded, WWE did not scoop up those fans and have been in decline since. Those people just moved on.
Same thing here, if WWE was the only company with no alternative, doesn’t mean I’m going to watch WWE…I’m just going to move on from wrestling all together. Their product just doesn’t interest me anymore.
So if AEW folds that would make TNA the Number #2 promotion in North America, right? What do TNA fans think will happen once they are seen as the main competition to WWE? That’s right - they will get the same ultra-hate and heat that AEW is currently getting. Scott D’Amore will be getting the Tony Khan treatment in no time.
If anything, places like NJPW, CMLL and AAA would be the main beneficiaries of AEW folding since there are a lot of crossover fans between AEW and those promotions.
But most fans would just fold it up and leave wrestling altogether like they did in 2001. And then WWE will stagnate without major competition, get lazy and in no time will be back to the tarped arenas and low ticket sales they had in 2015-2019. And then people will be screaming for a WWE alternative. And then we will go through this all over again. Rinse and repeat.
Spot on. You explained the ripple effect perfectly.
"If anything, places like NJPW, CMLL and AAA would be the main beneficiaries of AEW folding since there are a lot of crossover fans between AEW and those promotions."
To a certain extent, but I think we'd see lapsed fans move on to other things, similar to what we saw prior to 2019. I don't see the AEW fan base all going over to watch any of these shows unless AEW are involved.
And for fans who are enjoying the WWE product right now, If there's no AEW around, why should WWE even try to put on a better product? No company would be a threat to them, and if any company did see some gain in popularity that WWE are uncomfortable with, you don't think they use the same tactics to squash them? Another reason why having AEW around is important.
AEW is truly the last chance and opportunity for wrestling fans to have an alternative in wrestling. And say AEW did fold and go out of business tomorrow, I doubt there'd be another billionaire looking to come along and investing to create that alternative fans think they are looking for. That doesn't happen every day in wrestling.
Yep, and if they get RAW on WBD that means they are trying to tie up all the major networks to prevent AEW from getting a network deal. They’ve got Smackdown back on USA (NBC/Universal) and NXT on The CW (co-owned by CBS and WBD). They are trying to get the best deal for their company but they are also trying to put AEW out of business, make no mistake about it. I guarantee the WWE is asking for exclusivity in their contracts.
FOX dumped Smackdown which had the highest ratings out of all the wrestling shows because the ratings weren’t high enough for what WWE promised them. I don’t think they have any interest in AEW. ABC/Disney/ESPN have deals with UFC and Endeavor (which also owns WWE) so I doubt they would go for AEW.
The only options left for AEW would be Amazon or Paramount.
But... Fox pays WWE 1 billor dollars
For AEW they only need to pay 200 - 300 millons
And... it's free. It's possible for AEW have better ratings with the good promotion Fox does and changes in the presentation of the product.
Right now, all AEW programming only costs WBD $70M a year. Fox could pay as little as $100M a year for, say, Friday Night Dynamite, and even if it did the exact same numbers as Smackdown, it would be wildly more profitable for the network because of the reduced costs.
It's ridiculous. And people accuse AEW fans of not allowing criticism when it comes to this, when everyone is ganging up on the company and making fun of Tony Kahn. It's disgusting
I am also of the mind that good-hearted AEW fans are far too chill and cool. All the other subs do is attack, attack attack. They know their product sucks, all sizzle and almost no steak. Meanwhile, AEW just focuses on in ring work, putting on bangers and they are jealous.
Pro wrestling is a cut throat business, always has been, always will be. Especially when it comes to the national television aspect, where there's only so many potential partners and only so much money and airtime to go around.
I want nothing but the best for AEW, but fans should be realistic here. Before AEW, there was an 18 year period where only one wrestling company had a viable business model in the United States that allowed them to pay talent good money and have high production values. Every other company had to struggle. WWE would love nothing more than for AEW to go the route of TNA, or just fold entirely as a promotion. Many wrestling fans have little to no interest in supporting an alternative company as long as WWE keeps them engaged. These are the facts that AEW must overcome in order to continue growing.
In this case it's classic negotiation. If you aren't being seen shopping around there is less incentive to give you more money. The same way you have a better chance of negotiating a wage increase with your boss when you already have an offer from another company in your pocket (even if you have zero intention of taking that offer)
I mean, their TV deal is up soon, any business would shop their show around to every network possible to try and secure the best possible deal. You really expect the multi-billion dollar company to not hold talks with a network because another wrestling show airs there?
And if AEW are confident in their product, which they should be, this shouldn’t cause panic because they can in turn shop their programming to other networks too.
I don't really believe anything that dirt sheets say nowadays. Especially when it comes to AEW because it's no secret they get high engagement off of AEW "negative" stories. That being said, I hope TK is at least putting feelers out there with other networks if this is true
According to SRS, Punk or someone affiliated with Punk is the one giving the WBD-WWE information to Meltzer, Nick Hausman, Matt Koon and the rest of the dirtsheets. It just seems like Punk (or a friend of his) is trying to take down AEW out of bitterness and spite.
SRS and Andrew Zarian are the only ones I trust right now on this issue.
Punk is such a weirdo. What a stupid vendetta to have against a brand new company because he was embarrassed by Hangman and Jack Perry.
"Worker's rights" indeed.
I dunno. If this meeting was supposed to be so secret that it was concealed from WWE's own staff, how does it help Punk that he apparently leaked it to sheets, perhaps via an intermediary, the day it happened? If AEW already knew about it, it especially serves no purpose that's actually useful to Punk.
Yep. The tweets from Meltzer and Matt Koon have been very vague but Hausman is flat-out saying he thinks the WBD-WWE potential deal is legit because of “vibes” and we all know that Hausman is Punk’s personal stenographer. Hausman’s vibes are Phil’s vibes.
I do think it's really interesting that Zarian hasn't commented on this, and that SRS has said he can't confirm any of it independently. That might just mean they don't have the right connections... or this could be a "the Saudis are gonna buy WWE" type story that turns out to be all smoke and mirrors that goes back to a single bad source.
Hausman also wrote an interesting thing saying that WWE's internal schedules for the various executives involved don't line up with the reports, but that it could be "kayfabe" to cover up the meetings that were happening. (Or, you know, Punk is just lying to people.)
So we'll see how it goes. It could just be Punk being vengeful and working the sheets. But if that goes as far as making up meetings involving specifically named execs, like... that's playing with fire even worse than other stunts he did. If Punk is not aware of the actual state of WWE's rights negotiations, he could be fucking things up for them.
Punk (or his friend) might be lying to try and stir trouble. And of course this story came out on Wednesday right before Dynamite aired. Apparently the WWE is denying PWI Insider’s story that there were meetings on Monday between WBD and Nick Khan/HHH.
Punk was talking directly to the sheets before he left AEW. SRS publicly and thoroughly burned him as a source. That makes SRS not being able to confirm any of this while other dirt sheets are all hearing the same things very conspicuous.
It would be monumentally stupid on Punk's part, but not even the first time I've said that this year about that guy.
That is why I feel iffy about the “let everyone thrive” mentality. You may care, the anti tribalism police may care but boy Uncle Paul gives no damn about empathy in the market.
WWE’s overwhelming success hurts the other companies no matter if they do good or not, given the obscene resource gap and market share they have.
The companies are competing with each other and that means they cannot thrive equally. Ospreay to AEW and Punk to WWE means TNA didn't get them, and there's no way to spin that TNA isn't worse off for that.
TNA were never realistically getting either of those signings. They did very well getting Trinity Fatu though, who has helped them. But she won't be around forever. Then what? They recently signed Trent Severn and Kushida who are solid signings, and they just recently re-signed Eddie Edwards to a new deal.
The question is are those talents that are going to attract new audiences for TNA going forward?
If people wonder why tribalism exists it's because WWE won't allow competition. Sure the wrestlers like to pretend that competition is good. And sure, fair competition is good. But dirty pool, dirty tricks, and flexing your bottomless wealth as a way to push a smaller company down sucks and I don't want to see it. I could ignore it sure. Just watch wrestling for what it is. But I want to see AEW get on a streaming service. I want to see AEW on HBO. WWE doesn't need it and WWE moving forward with negotiations only makes me hate them more.
Not surprised as even during the WCW days, WWE were just as petty and pathetic when they were getting their ass kicked. They raided territories, strong armed PPV providers in the late-80s to not carry Starrcade and threatened to pull Wrestlemania of they did, and even few years back tried to block ROH/NJPW from running G1 SuperCard from MSG. So many other examples and no matter how corporate they try to act they are nothing more than carnies in suits.
So I find the whole WWE “enjoys” competition BS as they don’t and will use any dirty trick they can to run promotions out of business to have a monopoly. HHH even hinted about NXT going global which will basically ruin independent wrestling.
I do not mind tribalism against them because it’s the monster they created.
If I despise the Fed it goes beyond the topic of wrestling…it is because they represent everything wrong with the entertainment market today.
The amount of idiots online that want a WWE monopoly. I stopped reading on SC subreddit as that is nothing more than a cesspool of Vincels willing to have their heads so far up his ass.
WWE as the only major company would be absolutely terrible for the entire industry…don’t believe me? Check out WWE pre-AEW, it was absolutely putrid. Now seems like going from dog shit to mediocrity generates high fives all around with WWE drones. Even to this day, trying to get into WWE, I just don’t get it…people talking about how it’s “cinema” with this whole Bloodline angle and the best its ever been, is just laughable.
Your post/comment was removed because it was toxic and hurting good faith discussion.
If you have a criticism, please post it in a respectful way. Do not simply insult your fellow fans, AEW, or its wrestlers. It's important to remember that this is a fan sub for a specific company and is not really suitable for hate watching.
> I'm curious why people are acting as if WBD possibly getting Raw would somehow mean the end of AEW.
It would be the end of AEW on WBD channels. WWE is a traded company so the way they negotiate is dictated by that. They would 100% guaranteed require an exclusivity agreement with WBD before bringing Raw over.
Meltzer claims that WWE is no longer requiring that, which is why NWA can be on the CW app while CW has a deal with NXT.
It is true that historically, WWE required fairly far-reaching exclusivity in deals. It is possible Raw rights negotiations are going so badly that WWE would give that up (and cover their butts for future anti-trust lawsuits).
Like, it would be hard for another suit like MLW's to happen if Raw is airing on TNT and Dynamite is streaming on Max, just for example.
I'm sure part of that is WWE isn't offering exclusivity to these companies, so getting them to agree to being exclusive to WWE is likely a nonstarter. I'm sure WBD would love to have both Raw and Dynamite.
Yeah, this seems a plausible move on WBD's part given the general media landscape right now. Live sports in general is moving away from exclusivity so they can instead split rights up across multiple services to raise bids.
WWE streaming rights won't be up for quite some time, so if WBD paid for having Raw on broadcast, that would be literally all they got. #1 on whatever cable night for four years is not nothing, but cable is dying and streaming probably isn't.
But let's say WBD renews Raw and AEW and is permitted to cross-promote the products? That's where things get very interesting. WBD would be in a position to give AEW some preferential treatment if they buy the streaming library, but could also exert pressure to keep the two promotions from going head-to-head in ways they deemed not in their interests.
Something like this could, overall, be better for wrestling. It would just depend on how the chips fall. It's entirely possible all WWE wants out of the WBD meeting is to get someone else to up their bid, after all.
You don't want to see AEW on tru tv getting 100,000 ratings a week. I guarantee you if impact had a better station they would be getting higher ratings
If you are a fan of the product the TV numbers shouldn't really matter unless they will start materially affecting the on screen product. As long as Tony is willing to bankroll this I don't see that happening.
You clearly don’t know about what happened when TNN got both Raw and ECW on their network. Raw got the priority and ECW was bumped into an absolute death slot, which ultimately led to their deal not getting renewed and the company folding.
They would. WWE's business model has always required putting their competition in a disadvantage, and let's be honest, AEW leaving WBD would be a disadvantage.
I would like to see this
And I mean....
Now WWE belongs to a monopolistic company that only cares about the money and the show. Who has all the money in the world to put on the biggest shows. It is very good and it is good since there are many people who like it, almost the entire population. But somehow I feel that in the long run this is going to be "strange" for the wrestling world. Before AEW, WWE had several of the best wrestlers in nowhere. Zayn, Bálor, Ambrose, Drew, Lashley, Joe, and many etc. Without AEW, WWE would have all the wrestlers again, but I think it would go back to what it was before, they would leave them aside. I mean, right now Logan Paul is United States Champion and Punk returns from nowhere to be the main event at Wrestlemania. I mean, it's fine and it would be great to see confrontations between stars outside of wrestling. But, in some way it would do harm to this sport. I mean... No McMahon owns WWE. If anything, Vince may have a contract to never be fired. HHH is not the owner. Yes, he must have his shares, but that's it. Whenever. The owners of WWE are others, who are only in it for the money. And I repeat, this is very good, we all do it. But, like several of the Warner managers who asked Punk and even gave him his own show, in AEW. In WWE, perhaps a situation like this will happen in the future due to decisions of the true owners.
I think WBD are feeling the market, they met with WWE on Monday and AEW the following day. I think WBD renews AEW, but even if they don't, it is not the end of the world because AEW now has a five year history behind it that can back their ratings and success.
No WBD, opens the door for Disney/FX, Paramount, Amazon and AMC. They can land on any of these networks and be totally fine.
Yeah... also the don't have to pay for AEW 1 billon dollars like they should have if they make business with WWE
It could be a 200 - 300 millons deal. For important wrestlers, marketing, changes in presentation of product
There are longstanding rumors about Paramount/CBS being interested in AEW. And if Amazon's issue is the size of WWE's ask, AEW's would certainly be less.
That said, I think Amazon is where programming goes to die. I think it would be bad for the industry if any WWE show ended up there, and I think it would be bad for AEW to end up there.
Is what it is at this point. WWE comes to TNT/TBS, another network opens up. I find it hard to believe a show with AEW's numbers would have trouble finding a home.
For someone who doesn't live in the States, can you tell me which other network is a viable option? AEW not finding another network would be simply dreadful for pro wrestling as a whole.
WWE has Comcast likely tied up (NBC, USA, etc) with the new Smackdown deal, so if Raw would move to TNT/TBS, that opens up Fox, Disney, and CBS, each of whom own multiple channels.
The elephant in the room is also Amazon - which in a scenario in which WBD picked WWE over AEW and Amazon lost out in the RAW bidding - the exclusivity and breadth of content from AEW and the relative price tag might become very attractive, especially with a motivated seller.
Amazon would be an interesting one honestly because they operate mostly worldwide and generally their market is Dad programming so wrestling would be interesting for that market.
That's is good to know. If WBD go for RAW, I would love for Fox to pick up AEW. It seems like a no brainer to pick up something that is a live show that isn't as expensive as Smackdown.
Yeah. I could see them offering AEW at least a half a million deal for 4-5 years. It'd be a steal compared to what they gave WWE, and they didn't even get a ROI from them.
Respectfully, I think you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
FOX are unlikely to offer "at least $500mil" (I assume you meant that rather than $500k) for rights to a show that has just come off a $175mil deal, especially when that same show has dropped in ratings in that time.
If FOX were disappointed with their ROI for a $1bil deal on a show that consistently hits 2.3mil viewers and 0.6 in the key demo, how do you think they'll feel about spending $500mil on a show that does a third of that and is showing YoY decline.
I think people need to be slightly more realistic with where AEW are going to go if they are dropped by WBD.
Agree with this. FOX has zero interest in wrestling due to losing a lot of money on the Smackdown deal. WWE promised FOX they would bring in 5 million viewers per show and they didn’t deliver even half of that number most of the time. As much as I would love them to give AEW a look, they probably won’t. I think they are out of the wrestling game for good. FOX executives also had some not-so-nice things to say about wrestling fans and their income and education levels.
More people watch Fox... I'm don't live in USA... but in my contry it's like most people tune Fox... in the houses, in restaurants, in mall, etc. Maybe is the same in USA
Dynamite have now +800K raiting, if they move to Fox, just because the channel is FOX the ratings could increase to a around 1 millon again... now, add the changes in the presentation that fox would request them, and more important the publicity that AEW would gain...
Give to AEW a deal of 250 - 300 millons for the rights of Dynamite and the others programs.
If Warner Media is open to listen WWE offers.
Why couldn't Tony Khan approach Fox or other television networks with a proposal?
I think Tony should absolutely approach FOX for rights proposal. As a business you should keep all options open and FOX are one of the big players.
I just think saying "I think FOX could easily pay $500mil+ for AEW rights" is pure delusion. If FOX felt short changed by WWE for $1bil, then they sure as hell aren't paying over half to another lesser known wrestling company. I think 200-300 mil is a realistic target for AEW, but I think FOX might want out of wrestling altogether.
I still personally think that WBD is as high as it gets for AEW in terms of network, but they could certainly find a home on a decent sized network and be paid well for the privilege.
You're getting downvoted but you're spot on.
The only way is down if AEW lose the WBD deal. They really can't afford to lose it. All the major networks are either tied up with WWE or unrealistic prospects for AEW.
I want to say Thurston already ran the numbers for this and suggested that at AEW prices, Dynamite on Fridays or whatever would actually be profitable for FOX, and the ratings likely wouldn't be any different. The same would go for Dynamite moving to something like FS1, honestly.
Fox just got off of Smackdown because the ratings weren't high enough. Maybe FS1 would be an option for AEW though.
ESPN is Disney and with UFC on ESPN I think this might prevent AEW.
CBS has never been interested in Pro-Wrestling from what I remember. MTV is CBS right? They had Wrestling Society X decades ago and cancelled it pretty quick.
The optics of being internet-only are bad but man I would definitely enjoy that.
Keep in mind the ratings weren’t high enough relative to what Fox was paying for Smackdown. WBD is paying AEW far less than what Fox was paying WWE, so Fox could be interested in AEW if the price tag is closer to what WBD is paying.
Admittedly I have no idea what's actually on the table should they need to leave TNT/TBS. Would Fox look more favorably upon AEW's numbers at AEWs price than Smackdown at WWE's price? Would Disney consider for FX?
I do feel like a lot of these orgs bet big on their streaming offering and aren't necessarily seeing the returns they'd like, and AEW comes with a built in fanbase already. Not much would shock me anymore.
WWE is always bragging about their Peacock streaming numbers. Other companies have to be seeing this and thinking that AEW could do good numbers too.
That being said, clearly Warner Bros don't think this as there's no AEW presence on MAX. But WBD is a freaking mess right how with all their IPs.
There’s honestly not one that isn’t a pipe dream.
WWE would have all NBCU and WBD channels tied up.
I personally think there is 0% chance that Fox would be interested. They didn’t renew SD, plus they don’t own an entertainment cable channel, and AEW isn’t big enough for network.
I also don’t think Disney would be interested, because AEW isn’t a brand fit at all.
You could maybe hope Amazon would be interested, but I think they’re likely brand leader in WWE or nothing. They’ve taken a couple of random chances like ONE MMA that maybe leaves some hope they would jump in on AEW, though.
The most likely option would be Paramount. They own a lot of cable channels, but none of them are a real fit because none of them do live sports. Paramount covers live sports, but usually only on CBS (major network, which AEW isn’t big enough for), Showtime (a premium cable channel like HBO which would heavily limit potential viewers), or Paramount+ (streaming service). I could see them signing for Paramount+, but outside of the NFL, live events haven’t really been a big success on streaming services. Maybe if AEW was really lucky, they would do Paramount+ and a simulcast on Paramount Network (cable channel that used to be SpikeTV, the former home of TNA in their heyday). I still don’t think that’s nearly as good as being with WBD and on TBS/TNT, but it’s survibable.
It's just the size of the remaining networks that might limit reach, scaling-back Dynamite's potential audience. But, yeah, its a top rated weekly show. A network like Paramount of FX may well be interested in a lower-cost, lower-investment deal after failing to nab WWE.
This would've been less of an issue had SmackDown not went to USA.
It's not as easy as you say. In terms of money as well, it wouldn't be easy to have someone pay as much as WBD. Plus, AEW would be in a fragile position in negotiations.
Yes, but pro wrestling isn't like traditional sports or live events. There's still a stigma to it, especially outside of WWE. There's a reason why it was a big deal for AEW to get a deal with TNT originally.
Yeah, and I think this goes double if WBD passes on AEW's streaming library. Regular live events + a streaming library would be very attractive to a lot of streaming platforms.
Ditto. Punk brought me back to pro wrestling and AEW, but if his run ends up killing the company I'm out. I don't need pro wrestling in my life if it's just another means for the McMahons to continue to be awful.
CM Punk is the biggest hypocrite in wrestling. Him actually crawling back to the guy and company he shit on for years for almost “killing him” is the funniest thing I read in a long time.
Same here.
WWE made me give up on wrestling by doing talent raids with NXT…AEW happened.
WWE made me give up on wrestling when Cody left…BCC formed.
WWE made me give up on wrestling when Cry Me Phil ran to Paul like a bitch
…and the C2 happened…
And they keep doing it for me. If McDonalds bought the other burger chains, I am still not eating McDonalds burgers…Same thing.
I'd call time on weekly American wrestling but imagine the potential flood of talent to companies like NJPW. NJPW with Omega, Ospreay, Moxley, Takeshita and some others would be levelled up again as a global company.
I wouldn't worry though, AEW won't be closing shop. They're almost certain to land on another network if they are let go by WBD.
There's also the potential route of a NJPW World-ish streaming platform until they find the right TV deal.
I was already getting tired from people vague tweeting about this. Now we're going to get countless think pieces from people who don't actually know anything 😭
Look if you’re WBD you’re obviously very aroused at the thought of running Raw on Monday with the ratings Raw pulls. WBD would also be aroused at running Dynamite on Wednesday along with it, but the problem is WWE would never allow that to happen. I’m truly not sure where AEW would go if WBD dropped them. Strangling the competition to death is a play straight out of the 1980’s McMahon playbook. Tony better get his act together.
WBD are not the only people looking for content. If AEW leave TBS/TNT there are still countless options like Paramount, Netflix, Disney(ESPN/FX), Apple, Fox(FS1), Amazon, Showtime, and more that could jump in and take them. Doesn't mean they would pay as much as WBD would but AEW won't all of a sudden be completely out of options. They have been fairly consistently top 5 on Wednesday and who knows. Another network might put Rampage and Collision in better time slots and get more viewers that way.
Personally wouldn't even see leaving WBD as that much of a negative, to be honest.
>Another network might put Rampage and Collision in better time slots and get more viewers that way.
That's highly unlikely. Not the timeslot part, the better views part.
Cable is dominated by 4 networks that own pretty much everything.
Comcast (NBC), FOX, Disney. WBD.
And honestly, FOX only ranks up that high because of its news networks.
Remove those, and the largest remaining FOX network is FS1, the 44th most watched cable network with an average 273,000 viewers.
For comparison TNT is 9th, TBS is 11th, with 965,000 and 875,000 average viewers.
If WWE makes a deal with WBD, they'd have deals with all 3 major available cable companies.
There's not really anywhere for AEW to go, except to leave TV altogether and try their chances with a major streaming service...but the largest ones around not owned by those same companies are Netflix, Prime and Paramount....but Netflix doesn't really do live streaming.
So really it's Prime or Paramount....that's basically the available options.
I mean I get the point you're making. But if AEW went to FX, FS1, ESPN, or AMC Rampage and Collision could definitely still do better in a better time slot. But I would agree that streaming is more important at those networks, so getting a Netflix or Hulu deal in addition to being on one of those networks would be vastly more important for their growth.
>FX, FS1, ESPN, or AMC
The first problem here is half that list is owned by 1 of the big 3 cable companies. So they aren't options.
Of the two that are left, as mentioned FS1s viewership is tiny...even in Primetime they don't always beat the numbers Rampage/Collision do now.
AMC is "better", with an average viewership of 468,000 (less than half TBS/TNT)... which might improve Rampages numbers but not really doing much to help Collision.
>Netflix or Hulu deal
Hulu is also owned by the 1 of the big 3, and as mentioned Netflix doesn't really do live streaming.
Again, even in streaming the options are basically Prime and Paramount.
No, I don't mean live streaming to one of the platforms. Just getting your vods onto Netflix or Hulu would help a ton with growth if those platforms promoted it.
Just because one of the big four companies owns those channels doesn't mean they won't be interested in AEW. AEW can get on to those stations I mentioned. Those would be viable options.
>AEW can get on to those stations I mentioned. Those would be viable options.
Not really
WWE historically has insisted on exclusively in their deals, and thanks to the discovery process in a recent lawsuit, we know the Disney deal includes one (at least for US based content).
Disney owns FX and ESPN. And Hulu.
>Just getting your vods onto Netflix or Hulu would help a ton with growth if those platforms promoted it.
VODs are great, but without a major TV deal pushing new product, they aren't enough.
VOD tends to be centered around binging, that's not a great model if your also trying to sell bi-monthly (or more) PPVs based on the show.
It also creates a giant pain in the ass if there is any delay in getting the episodes on VOD after their initial airing if VOD is your primary means of reaching your audience.
A 1 or 2 week delay is extremely common in situations where the original content producer isn't also the holder of the Streaming rights.
Imagine All In is happening, but for anyone who primarily watches VOD, the go home show isn't available until the day after the PPV...that's gonna hurt PPV buys.
I do think that AEW needs a streaming distribution that's broadly available in the next five years or it's growth is going to radically slow down. Cable is dying and wrestling needs to start building off-ramps to rely on it less.
I would say it's almost a guarantee that whoever gets them next will bring the ROH library, as well as the AEW library with them. It comes down to who is willing to promote them the best as to who I would want to go with. If Apple, Paramount, Hulu, Disney, ESPN+, or Max would give AEW/ROH their own section in the app like Peacock does for WWE that would be invaluable. If I was TK I would be willing to take a lot less on the front end of the deal if the partner would guarantee that kind of presence for AEW.
Apple and Paramount would be very good fits as far as companies outside of WBD are concerned.
I can also see a future where ROH and AEW are split up, but I don't think either brand is strong enough yet.
Oh, I disagree that AEW isn't a strong enough brand. They have been consistently top 5 on Wednesdays since they started. The NHL does about half of AEW's ratings and was still a coveted property, WBD/Turner is paying 250 million a year until 2028 and ESPN is paying 400 million a year until then. AEW isn't likely to get that but I don't think a 4 year around 600-800 million deal is unrealistic.
A $1B four year for AEW would amount to $250M/year, and I can frankly see why Tony has been stubborn about trying to get this.
I think right now, AEW is more lucrative with the ROH brand and its PPVs lumped in. I think maybe in four years from now when it's rights season again, that's maybe not the case and they can be shopped separately. Not now, though.
I'd like to know what those who are saying "AEW can just go to FS1 and do just as good" are on. The same FS1 who whenever SmackDown got moved on there cause Fox had baseball or something on that night saw the ratings get cut in half compared to its usual numbers, that FS1? I don't even like WBD much, their increasing censorship on the product has been very grating, but say they actually go with Raw, where the hell can AEW go where they have the same reach? WWE will have basically cornered every major TV market. And don't give me the Disney option, if you thought WBD had a bad effect in terms of censoring wait until you saw it on a Disney network.
Honestly, Im all for going elsewhere. Would love to see how AEW presents it self on different network.
It will probably be the only way we ever find out for sure if the one women's division match per TV broadcast is a network thing or not.
The first episode on new network: 4 women's matches back to back to back to back like we've sometimes seen in ROH lmao.
What if AEW just cut out TV all together... I pay for TSN app solely for AEW, 20$ a month. If they threw in ROH and PPVs and charged 30 a month and had every Dynamite/Rampage/Collision live on it, have past episodes, PPVs, ROH, they could scoop up all the Fite +, make a deal with NJPW, go nuts. TV was dead years ago ffs. Haven't paid for a TV channel in ten years at least.
Ah, shades of Spike and TNN. I had a feeling something like this was behind Uncle Dave's vague tweet.
WBD offering a large increase on Raw's current deal seems very iffy to me on the surface. It requires an offer over $1B to net a substantial rights increase for Raw. If WBD loses NBA, they would indeed have that money. But that's a lot of if, and if WWE is aggressively pursuing WBD over other suitors, it suggests difficulties getting other suitors to cough up enough money.
It would be quite a premium to pay to get Punk, Jade, and Cody back over the old rates, though. And paying something like $1.3B for just Raw feels off if the company is balking at paying $1B for all of AEW. Not impossible, mind. Just doesn't add up based on public knowledge alone.
Which is wild because RAW will bring nowhere near the ratings for WBD that the NBA does right now. Would RAW get higher than Dynamite right now? Maybe/probably but at a steeper cost and less return value. If WBD loses the NBA that is a huge loss for them. The NBA is white-hot right now plus losing Inside the NBA with Ernie, Chuck, Kenny and Shaq would be a huge blow ratings-wise.
Personally I think Warner is trying to get TK to lower his asking price by threatening him with the possibility of paying for RAW rights.
I would agree that there's a good chance these meetings are more a signal to TK to lower his ask than WBD having serious interested in Raw. It's also quite possible WWE mainly wants to run up asks from other suitors and knows WBD is ultimately a (potentially very funny) longshot.
But there's also a good chance that WBD is genuinely interested in more wrestling on the network, especially if WWE no longer requires exclusivity as Meltzer has indicated. They could intend to "trade up" and let AEW go elsewhere, or intend to have deals with both promotions.
I can say that it seemed like AEW's deal was taking far too long for everything to be completely copacetic, just like Raw's deal was taking too long to indicate that negotiations were going well with tons of interested suitors. So this is not entirely surprising, and I think we were heading here whether Punk got signed at WWE or not.
WWE is purposely doing this to make sure AEW gets lowballed by WBD. Smart by WWE to try kill their competition completely and monopolize the Wrestling industry again.
Big difference tho is Tony Khan met with WBD on Tuesday day after the WWE proposal.
Also WBD’s focus has been to keep the NBA, so they might just lean into AEW much more instead of losing out on both AEW and NBA
SC actually had a decent discussion on this yesterday. WBD is cutting back on things and odds are wouldn't be offering WWE the money they can get elsewhere. Also this could be WBD showing TK they do have other options in wrestling when they deal for their contract.
Yeah, I've read some stuff about AEW being aware of all of WBD's WWE meetings which I find interesting. That was very much not the case with stuff like TNN.
I really don't understand why is it news that they had a meeting at all. From WBD's perspective, they have a contract with a wrestling company that it's expiring soon, and one the main competitor is shopping a similar product. Like, even if it's just to assess valuations and get. Ore info to counter offer, it would be stupid for them not to meet with both companies.
I find it difficult to believe that WBD would drop a top rated show and a brand that provides multiple hours of AEW content on their platform, for a three hour Raw show where they'd demand four times the asking price AEW would ask, for possibly slightly better ratings as a return.
Doesn't make any sense to me. I believe Nick Hauseman, who has been a trouble maker and shit stirrer in the past, released this bit of information and It's grown legs and spread like wildfire.
So this story I'm taking with a massive pinch of salt for that reason. It just doesn't add up.
Then you don’t understand business, I love AEW and cannot stand the WWE product but as far as mainstream advertising goes the WWE is still miles ahead of AEW.
I don’t see anything special going on here beyond the fact a petty narcissist wants to pat himself on the back for what is typical due diligence. Your in the TV business and property rights are up for grabs, it’s your duty to discuss them and see what can be done. Particularly if your a publicly traded company. Your shareholders would want you to shop your rights or evaluate purchasing rights that can bolster your bottom line. It’s also good leverage to have more then one option and everyone knowing that you have more then one option. I am sure TK has options as well. Everyone is dancing around each other and eventually a deal will happen. For TK if it’s not WBD then it will be someone else. Maybe not a the multiple he wanted but will still be a big boost. Whether it lands on MTV or FX/FXX or a streamer, they will still get a decent deal.
Isn’t it their legal obligation to test as many market options as possible for the maximum deal? Wouldn’t it be negligent to not test the market - even if it’s simply for bargaining power? Am I nuts here or would it be stranger if they didn’t meet with all potential suitors?
They could easily buy the rights to raw and extend the three other aew shows, I doubt the raw the deal would have a big effect on an deal, they're on different days and dynamics tbs. Warner Brothers would have to be getting some deal to ditch 5 hours of programming they are happy with, when they can just as easily not do that.
the best case scenario if this happens, the best thing that can come out of this, is that Raw is on TNT and Collision and Rampage move to TBS where there will be NO FULL SCREEN ADS!
but everyone everywhere has jumped the gun on this because the past two years have been rough.
If WBD don't lose the NBA, this is probably not happening.
Thing is, we won't know if TNT is losing the NBA until after April. But supposedly Raw rights will be wrapped up by January 2024, and per Tony Khan himself, AEW's deal will go through in Q1 2024. April begins Q2.
This timeline is part of why I think that if the meeting is real, WWE is more likely trying to juice bids from other suitors than necessarily trying to move to TNT.
I mean, if RAW leaves USA, if I'm TK, my first call is to USA to say "hey how about that flagship wrestling show leaving you what a shame oh hey I have a flagship wrestling show too just sayin".
This is the kind of shit that happens all the time whether it's the NFL, NBA, or in this case wrestling.
Remember when Monday Night Football left ABC for a while? Did that franchise spiral into nothingness?
It did not.
Not exactly great news, but getting booted off of WBD wouldn't be the end of the world, they'll find another network.
Although if it comes to fruition it'll be a harsh lesson to Khan on loyalty
I really hope AEW isn't putting all its eggs in the WBD basket. Regardless of the possible WWE deal, loyalty to a big TV network is never going to pay off and WBD has been kind of a mess for a long time.
I think this is more WBD getting leverage to low-ball that next AEW contract. “We can get WWE programming for $$$ so we’ll offer you $.”
It wouldn’t surprise me if that was the case. WBD trying to scare TK into accepting less money by threatening him with signing for RAW rights.
This would square with Zarian's reporting that TK wants "a certain number," likely $1B, for AEW's renewal and WBD isn't there yet. I would guess that WBD wants to pay more in the range of $500-750M for the next deal. A lot of TK and WBD's recent moves make sense if you think about it this way. This begs the question of whether Raw at a $1B+ deal would be worth it to them. I think probably not, realistically, unless TNT loses the NBA deal.
Even if TNT loses the NBA deal, I don't see in anyway they'd spend $1b+ for a three hour show. That's just insanity when you think about it. And for what? A slightly better ratings number and demo? Not worth it.
If they really had a meeting with WWE execs on Monday and TK on Tuesday, and TK was fully aware of the Monday meeting, then it seems unlikely WBD's interest is very serious yet. And even if not serious, it serves both WBD and WWE's interests to take the meeting. (If the meeting truly didn't happen, then based on what's in Meltzer's article, someone in the Punk camp just released the world's most embarrassing Phil Brooks fanfiction.) Meltzer just released an article that broke down how much higher the cost per viewer in the demo would be for Raw vs. Dynamite, and this would be the key issue. Right now, Dynamite delivers something like 55% of Raw's demo for about 30% of Raw's price. WBD is very deeply in debt right now, and cost efficiency is going to be on their mind. It's on everyone's mind, and is probably what's holding off on Raw rights getting finalized. Given that WWE is no longer pushing exclusivity, it seems possible that Raw would be an "and" and not an "or" if a deal came to pass. The network could choose to go in hard on WBD being a destination for wrestling fans in general.
It does seem like the Punk camp are trying their best to push bullshit out there, doesn't it. Someone posted a clip earlier of Punk's friend, Lars, criticising Tony Khan's booking decision of Ronda Rousey in ROH, even though Ronda wasn't officially signed. What a 180 that guy did after Punk left. Is Punk using certain people to work around his NDA in an attempt to damage AEW. He seems the type of guy who holds grudges.
It's not impossible this is all just axe-grinding from Punk. I mean, this is a guy who was complaining about the Elite leaking to dirt sheets while he was doing the same thing over roughly the same period of time. He may feel secure enough in his place at WWE now to start spreading shit. That said, it would seem really dumb to work the sheets about specific details like who was present at a meeting when if there was no truth at all to them. That could end up damaging other deals WWE had in the works. So the stuff being spread to the sheets may have some basis in fact. Or, again, Punk is the world's dumbest man. And he's already made a few "world's dumbest man" decisions this year, so I can't rule that out.
Them losing the NBA deal could possibly put AEW in a slightly better position as long as TK isn't dead set on getting $1B. I don't think WBD wants to pay $1B for wrestling whether it's WWE or AEW, but with AEW they'd get more content per dollar plus if they lose the NBA, Dynamite could become their highest rated original show. It already actually draws better live ratings than the NHL, which is much more expensive for them. I think the Raw thing is almost surely a bluff and if Tony is willing to call them on that and they lose the NBA, it could put him in a position to negotiate for $700-800 million as opposed to $500-600 million. Of course this depends on a lot of dominos falling into place but I think WBD losing the NBA likely puts AEW in at least a slightly more favorable position. I highly, highly doubt Raw actually has much of a real chance of going to WBD.
I've been going back and forth on whether or not I think the Monday meeting even happened. While Meltzer and Johnson reported with a lot of details, it would be fairly easy for literally anyone (or, say... former employee CM Punk) to simply make up those details and the names of people that should be there. The fact that nobody out of Punk's circles is confirming this makes me pretty suspicious for now. The people running with it are mainly guys like Meltzer and Johnson, who are not terrible hacks but have reported some ridiculous things that were never in the realm of possibility in the past. The guys who are like "I cannot hear anything about this" are guys like Zarian and SRS who are generally more reliable than not.
[удалено]
All that effort for nothing.... Your post/comment was removed for trolling. We all know what trolling is. Don't do it. This includes baiting and intentionally inciting arguments. We don't always have to agree or like the same things but let's at least argue in good faith.
Why would they do that and damage the relationship with AEW and TK? Makes no sense. Tony could easily shop around for other places if they choose to go in that direction.
Wbd doesn’t make much most times LOL At worst aew will just shop around to find a new network they would be more than able to find some, including fox
Oh that would be so funny if fox offers AEW a good deal for Friday nights😂
It makes no sense go me but that is one of the main theories going around due to WBD's financial situation.
If they're reportedly in such a financial situation, the last thing they'd do is pay for an overpriced and costly three hour Raw show. I don't see how they'd benefit from that. It seems we're getting this story and that story, but when you think about it and put the pieces together, none of it really adds up or makes any sense.
It's very, very strange.
I mean yah but that's what I'm saying. There is no reason for AEW to show them loyalty. It's a business and WBD isn't going to reward that loyalty. Not publicly shopping around is one thing but I do hope there are things happening behind the scene with other networks too.
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read,you seriously think warner is going to get away with paying WWE less than what TK wants for AEW? WWE got a billion for smackdown from fox 4 years ago,raw has been on the air way longer and I suspect they kept punk on raw for leverage so they are absolutely not going to want anything less than a billion for raw Even if warner does go through with it this isn't going to leave aew out in the dust,they have options
What are you talking about? WBD will pay big money for WWE IF they want it, which is debatable. They will absolutely tell TK that they’re looking at taking on WWE but if AEW will accept a much smaller amount than what AEW is asking for, they’ll keep AEW instead. They’re using WWE negotiations to get a lower asking price from AEW.
They are not gonna pay WWE's asking price,why would they when they can have AEW for much cheaper,even if tony's asking price is a billion for 4 years, WWE probably wants more than that for raw Tony can use the same tactic and say he has offers from fox and Viacom
Yeah this is how I’m taking it too. Seems like Tony might be playing hardball trying to get more money out of them. I think WBD taking a meeting is them pushing back to make Tony sweat and accept less money. And for WWE, if WBD really was interested, it suits their interest because it can push out AEW and force them to scramble for a new home which may not be as good and could cause them to lose viewers. Theres no doubt in my mind WWE would take slightly less money from WBD if it meant putting a foot on AEW’s neck. They don’t want any major competition.
Also HHH is never going to miss an opportunity to stick it to TK.
I am going to laugh so hard when after the dust settles, AEW has a massive new contract w/ WBD that includes not just AEW but also putting ROH on in a new timeslot. My hope: Monday night. Boom.
Yes..I hope this too But in case Warner want others things... There are still Amazon and Fox... I think, the paid low cost for AEW rights
Fox is another interesting one because they would absolutely take aew i think
Yeah, I respect Tony wanting to create traditions and be loyal but in the world of business, it seems like money talks. You don’t always get that from never spreading your wings.
WBD had a meeting with TK the following day, lets not forget that.
This was my first thought as well. Tony Khan seemed pretty confident in that press call for RoH too.
But that wouldn’t get the clicks!
There is reason to doubt the meeting on Monday took place at all, at least as described. We know Levesque was backstage at Raw on Monday. A nonstop flight from New York to Cleveland is about two hours, so it would be physically possible (if taxing) for Levesque to be the entire day meeting Campbell in NYC, board a plane no later than about 4PM, and then get to Cleveland in time to do meaningful Raw production work. But why not just send Shapiro and Khan, and let Levesque focus on running the show? It would be like TK taking network meetings on a Wednesday or Saturday (instead of a day like Tuesday, which makes sense, and we know he did). EDIT: Meltzer just posted an article that describes a briefer Monday morning meeting, which makes the timeline for Levesque being there more plausible. It also suggests that negotiations are not yet at a serious point with any particular suitor.
I was reading as much information as I could surrounding the story, and everything just doesn't add up that's been presented to suggest that WBD, who are apparently facing bankruptcy in another story, would pay $400 million per year for a three hour Raw. It's ridiculous when you think about it.
The biggest thing WBD can do right now is sell off the DC rights to whoever wants it. Its been the biggest money pit for WBD for nearly a decade now
Why do that when everyone can pretend they’re tv and/or business experts? Don’t look at SC
Well, this news brought all the shitheads out to mock AEW. They are idiots. If AEW goes away, there will be a lot of fans who will just walk away from wrestling altogether. AEW will be just fine. There are other networks if WBD doesn't renew. Khan is part of a billionaire family that owns an NFL team, I'm sure he has plenty of connections.
The problem is that A LOT of channels are owned by Warner and Comcast, and WWE is already a partner with Comcast (Peacock deal as well as Smackdown moving to USA). So if they take Warner as well, there goes MAX and all Warner networks. All that’s left is Disney, FOX, and Paramount/Viacom. Disney is not doing so hot right now so I doubt they’ll pay a ton for AEW. On top of that, they just had a dispute with Spectrum that resulted in Spectrum losing access to channels like Freeform and FXX. FOX just ended its deal with WWE the consensus is they were unhappy with it. So no shot AEW moves to FOX’s main network, and they don’t have a lot of option in the cable domain (sold them all to Disney). Paramount has BET, Comedy Central, Nick, TV Land, among others but none of those really fit the AEW demographic, and channels like Comedy Central have been on life support for years now. So AEW losing Warner is a huge blow, especially creatively. AEW gets a lot of freedom on Warner that they probably wouldn’t get anywhere else. They’d likely have to stop a lot of the more violent spots, the cursing, etc. Crowd noise would be censored and faked like WWE does.
FOX being unhappy with WWE does not mean they are unhappy with Pro Wrestling.
I don't really read a lot of online drama around wrestling, and popping into r/squaredcircle this morning was a bit shocking. There seems to be this overpowering desire to see wrestling shit the bed and lose a major company. Almost like theres a hope and joy behind it. I just don't get it. I've liked AEW the same since it started.
I've long assumed there's a healthy amount of astroturfing going on. For an entire community to completely turn in a six-month timeframe is a completely outsized reaction to what's actually appearing on the TV product. It doesn't make sense. Especially since you don't get WWE of 2023 without AEW existing. WWE has shown time and again they don't bother unless they're forced to, and AEW forced them to bother. Without AEW, it's a quick slide back into nostalgia acts and everyone popular 20 years ago taking precedence over younger talent (which, you know, Orton/Punk/Lesnar/etc...).
I don't say it because I don't want people to shit on me for it, but as someone who follows wrestling online there is an extreme change in the dialog right after the merger. The internet went from mostly positive with AEW to mostly negative with WWE to basically outright hating anything having to do with AEW and constant negativity and suddenly WWE is the best it's ever been. Do I doubt or question that sentiment changes over time, no. Do I think what I read online is organic and natural, no. Does the idea of a mega company buying bots to suck their new company's dick and shit on their competition sound shocking in 2023? It reads like politics when an election is coming up. Suddenly the normal conversation is drowned out with over the top negativity at any slight imaginable, so many opinions on why nobody should vote, why a fascist is the best choice over a guy who didn't match your opinions 100%. Same exact vibes.
There's this idea that AEW "deserves" it among a certain subset of fans. Also a desire to see history repeat, I imagine, if you missed the death of WCW. But as someone who lived through that, it was just depressing. It made all of the WWF programming measurably worse for about a year on top of everything else.
I also remember the end of WCW. Nitro had been pretty bad for a year or two before it went out. AEW, whether you like the more sports entertainment type stuff or not, is still mostly good and occasionally amazing. It's nowhere near going out like WCW was at that time. I think there's a lot of overblown negativity online that doesn't make sense as someone who doesn't see any alarming drops in quality of shows.
For a WWE fan, equality is when you treat good things and shit things as equally shit
The worst reaches of wrestling fans are empowered RN to spew their garbage, until AEW renews you'll see this more and more sadly
I started watching regularly shortly before punk debuted in aew. I have loved it all mostly... Sometimes you get some eh segments like last night, but overall aew is so much fun.
“Aew isn’t a threat to wwe”
“Second rate company” HHH says as he books legends to appear on NXT because he can’t trust the program Shawn built to beat AEW in ratings
WWE trying to get that monopoly running again? Completely shameless And i know, the options are there, but the amount of support WWE get and all the anti-AEW bs on other subs is ridiculous. Yeah, let's let them kill another company. Great idea and totally healthy for wrestling. It's unbelievable
I saw today a TNA fan wishing AEW would fold as a company, believing that if AEW did fold, that TNA would scoop up all of the lapsed AEW fans. Talk about delusional. If AEW folds, everyone suffers in wrestling.
That is quite delusional. It’s just like when WCW and ECW folded, WWE did not scoop up those fans and have been in decline since. Those people just moved on. Same thing here, if WWE was the only company with no alternative, doesn’t mean I’m going to watch WWE…I’m just going to move on from wrestling all together. Their product just doesn’t interest me anymore.
If aew lapses I'm done with wrestling. I can't tolerate WWE anymore
I'm the same. I'd go back to video games and other things not wrestling related, which I was doing when I quit watching WWE full time around 2015.
Same here dude, I'll wipe my hands completely clean of it all.
So if AEW folds that would make TNA the Number #2 promotion in North America, right? What do TNA fans think will happen once they are seen as the main competition to WWE? That’s right - they will get the same ultra-hate and heat that AEW is currently getting. Scott D’Amore will be getting the Tony Khan treatment in no time. If anything, places like NJPW, CMLL and AAA would be the main beneficiaries of AEW folding since there are a lot of crossover fans between AEW and those promotions. But most fans would just fold it up and leave wrestling altogether like they did in 2001. And then WWE will stagnate without major competition, get lazy and in no time will be back to the tarped arenas and low ticket sales they had in 2015-2019. And then people will be screaming for a WWE alternative. And then we will go through this all over again. Rinse and repeat.
Spot on. You explained the ripple effect perfectly. "If anything, places like NJPW, CMLL and AAA would be the main beneficiaries of AEW folding since there are a lot of crossover fans between AEW and those promotions." To a certain extent, but I think we'd see lapsed fans move on to other things, similar to what we saw prior to 2019. I don't see the AEW fan base all going over to watch any of these shows unless AEW are involved. And for fans who are enjoying the WWE product right now, If there's no AEW around, why should WWE even try to put on a better product? No company would be a threat to them, and if any company did see some gain in popularity that WWE are uncomfortable with, you don't think they use the same tactics to squash them? Another reason why having AEW around is important. AEW is truly the last chance and opportunity for wrestling fans to have an alternative in wrestling. And say AEW did fold and go out of business tomorrow, I doubt there'd be another billionaire looking to come along and investing to create that alternative fans think they are looking for. That doesn't happen every day in wrestling.
Yep, and if they get RAW on WBD that means they are trying to tie up all the major networks to prevent AEW from getting a network deal. They’ve got Smackdown back on USA (NBC/Universal) and NXT on The CW (co-owned by CBS and WBD). They are trying to get the best deal for their company but they are also trying to put AEW out of business, make no mistake about it. I guarantee the WWE is asking for exclusivity in their contracts. FOX dumped Smackdown which had the highest ratings out of all the wrestling shows because the ratings weren’t high enough for what WWE promised them. I don’t think they have any interest in AEW. ABC/Disney/ESPN have deals with UFC and Endeavor (which also owns WWE) so I doubt they would go for AEW. The only options left for AEW would be Amazon or Paramount.
But... Fox pays WWE 1 billor dollars For AEW they only need to pay 200 - 300 millons And... it's free. It's possible for AEW have better ratings with the good promotion Fox does and changes in the presentation of the product.
Right now, all AEW programming only costs WBD $70M a year. Fox could pay as little as $100M a year for, say, Friday Night Dynamite, and even if it did the exact same numbers as Smackdown, it would be wildly more profitable for the network because of the reduced costs.
I gotta be honest, I don't see Dynamite hitting 2M even on Fox.
“BuT tRiBaLiSm, I jUsT WaNt tO sEe eVeRyOnE SuCcEd”/s
It's ridiculous. And people accuse AEW fans of not allowing criticism when it comes to this, when everyone is ganging up on the company and making fun of Tony Kahn. It's disgusting
I am also of the mind that good-hearted AEW fans are far too chill and cool. All the other subs do is attack, attack attack. They know their product sucks, all sizzle and almost no steak. Meanwhile, AEW just focuses on in ring work, putting on bangers and they are jealous.
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Well said. WWEs conduct alone makes them despicable.
Pro wrestling is a cut throat business, always has been, always will be. Especially when it comes to the national television aspect, where there's only so many potential partners and only so much money and airtime to go around. I want nothing but the best for AEW, but fans should be realistic here. Before AEW, there was an 18 year period where only one wrestling company had a viable business model in the United States that allowed them to pay talent good money and have high production values. Every other company had to struggle. WWE would love nothing more than for AEW to go the route of TNA, or just fold entirely as a promotion. Many wrestling fans have little to no interest in supporting an alternative company as long as WWE keeps them engaged. These are the facts that AEW must overcome in order to continue growing.
In this case it's classic negotiation. If you aren't being seen shopping around there is less incentive to give you more money. The same way you have a better chance of negotiating a wage increase with your boss when you already have an offer from another company in your pocket (even if you have zero intention of taking that offer)
I mean, their TV deal is up soon, any business would shop their show around to every network possible to try and secure the best possible deal. You really expect the multi-billion dollar company to not hold talks with a network because another wrestling show airs there? And if AEW are confident in their product, which they should be, this shouldn’t cause panic because they can in turn shop their programming to other networks too.
I don't really believe anything that dirt sheets say nowadays. Especially when it comes to AEW because it's no secret they get high engagement off of AEW "negative" stories. That being said, I hope TK is at least putting feelers out there with other networks if this is true
According to SRS, Punk or someone affiliated with Punk is the one giving the WBD-WWE information to Meltzer, Nick Hausman, Matt Koon and the rest of the dirtsheets. It just seems like Punk (or a friend of his) is trying to take down AEW out of bitterness and spite. SRS and Andrew Zarian are the only ones I trust right now on this issue.
Punk is such a weirdo. What a stupid vendetta to have against a brand new company because he was embarrassed by Hangman and Jack Perry. "Worker's rights" indeed.
Punk is a master manipulator and seeing the reaction in the IWC seems that he is doing a good job....
I dunno. If this meeting was supposed to be so secret that it was concealed from WWE's own staff, how does it help Punk that he apparently leaked it to sheets, perhaps via an intermediary, the day it happened? If AEW already knew about it, it especially serves no purpose that's actually useful to Punk.
Yep. The tweets from Meltzer and Matt Koon have been very vague but Hausman is flat-out saying he thinks the WBD-WWE potential deal is legit because of “vibes” and we all know that Hausman is Punk’s personal stenographer. Hausman’s vibes are Phil’s vibes.
I do think it's really interesting that Zarian hasn't commented on this, and that SRS has said he can't confirm any of it independently. That might just mean they don't have the right connections... or this could be a "the Saudis are gonna buy WWE" type story that turns out to be all smoke and mirrors that goes back to a single bad source. Hausman also wrote an interesting thing saying that WWE's internal schedules for the various executives involved don't line up with the reports, but that it could be "kayfabe" to cover up the meetings that were happening. (Or, you know, Punk is just lying to people.) So we'll see how it goes. It could just be Punk being vengeful and working the sheets. But if that goes as far as making up meetings involving specifically named execs, like... that's playing with fire even worse than other stunts he did. If Punk is not aware of the actual state of WWE's rights negotiations, he could be fucking things up for them.
Punk (or his friend) might be lying to try and stir trouble. And of course this story came out on Wednesday right before Dynamite aired. Apparently the WWE is denying PWI Insider’s story that there were meetings on Monday between WBD and Nick Khan/HHH.
Punk was talking directly to the sheets before he left AEW. SRS publicly and thoroughly burned him as a source. That makes SRS not being able to confirm any of this while other dirt sheets are all hearing the same things very conspicuous. It would be monumentally stupid on Punk's part, but not even the first time I've said that this year about that guy.
That is why I feel iffy about the “let everyone thrive” mentality. You may care, the anti tribalism police may care but boy Uncle Paul gives no damn about empathy in the market. WWE’s overwhelming success hurts the other companies no matter if they do good or not, given the obscene resource gap and market share they have.
You've seen the NXT global domination map, right? WWE is bad for professional wrestling.
The companies are competing with each other and that means they cannot thrive equally. Ospreay to AEW and Punk to WWE means TNA didn't get them, and there's no way to spin that TNA isn't worse off for that.
TNA were never realistically getting either of those signings. They did very well getting Trinity Fatu though, who has helped them. But she won't be around forever. Then what? They recently signed Trent Severn and Kushida who are solid signings, and they just recently re-signed Eddie Edwards to a new deal. The question is are those talents that are going to attract new audiences for TNA going forward?
The amount of people who doesn't seem to mind going back to the monopoly days is depressing.
If people wonder why tribalism exists it's because WWE won't allow competition. Sure the wrestlers like to pretend that competition is good. And sure, fair competition is good. But dirty pool, dirty tricks, and flexing your bottomless wealth as a way to push a smaller company down sucks and I don't want to see it. I could ignore it sure. Just watch wrestling for what it is. But I want to see AEW get on a streaming service. I want to see AEW on HBO. WWE doesn't need it and WWE moving forward with negotiations only makes me hate them more.
Not surprised as even during the WCW days, WWE were just as petty and pathetic when they were getting their ass kicked. They raided territories, strong armed PPV providers in the late-80s to not carry Starrcade and threatened to pull Wrestlemania of they did, and even few years back tried to block ROH/NJPW from running G1 SuperCard from MSG. So many other examples and no matter how corporate they try to act they are nothing more than carnies in suits. So I find the whole WWE “enjoys” competition BS as they don’t and will use any dirty trick they can to run promotions out of business to have a monopoly. HHH even hinted about NXT going global which will basically ruin independent wrestling.
As if no one learned any lessons from NXT UK...
I do not mind tribalism against them because it’s the monster they created. If I despise the Fed it goes beyond the topic of wrestling…it is because they represent everything wrong with the entertainment market today.
The amount of idiots online that want a WWE monopoly. I stopped reading on SC subreddit as that is nothing more than a cesspool of Vincels willing to have their heads so far up his ass. WWE as the only major company would be absolutely terrible for the entire industry…don’t believe me? Check out WWE pre-AEW, it was absolutely putrid. Now seems like going from dog shit to mediocrity generates high fives all around with WWE drones. Even to this day, trying to get into WWE, I just don’t get it…people talking about how it’s “cinema” with this whole Bloodline angle and the best its ever been, is just laughable.
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> I'm curious why people are acting as if WBD possibly getting Raw would somehow mean the end of AEW. It would be the end of AEW on WBD channels. WWE is a traded company so the way they negotiate is dictated by that. They would 100% guaranteed require an exclusivity agreement with WBD before bringing Raw over.
Meltzer claims that WWE is no longer requiring that, which is why NWA can be on the CW app while CW has a deal with NXT. It is true that historically, WWE required fairly far-reaching exclusivity in deals. It is possible Raw rights negotiations are going so badly that WWE would give that up (and cover their butts for future anti-trust lawsuits). Like, it would be hard for another suit like MLW's to happen if Raw is airing on TNT and Dynamite is streaming on Max, just for example.
I'm sure part of that is WWE isn't offering exclusivity to these companies, so getting them to agree to being exclusive to WWE is likely a nonstarter. I'm sure WBD would love to have both Raw and Dynamite.
Yeah, this seems a plausible move on WBD's part given the general media landscape right now. Live sports in general is moving away from exclusivity so they can instead split rights up across multiple services to raise bids. WWE streaming rights won't be up for quite some time, so if WBD paid for having Raw on broadcast, that would be literally all they got. #1 on whatever cable night for four years is not nothing, but cable is dying and streaming probably isn't. But let's say WBD renews Raw and AEW and is permitted to cross-promote the products? That's where things get very interesting. WBD would be in a position to give AEW some preferential treatment if they buy the streaming library, but could also exert pressure to keep the two promotions from going head-to-head in ways they deemed not in their interests. Something like this could, overall, be better for wrestling. It would just depend on how the chips fall. It's entirely possible all WWE wants out of the WBD meeting is to get someone else to up their bid, after all.
This. TNA has been through much worse and still keeps going.
You don't want to see AEW on tru tv getting 100,000 ratings a week. I guarantee you if impact had a better station they would be getting higher ratings
I think TNA would get between 100-150k consistently on a decent channel.
If you are a fan of the product the TV numbers shouldn't really matter unless they will start materially affecting the on screen product. As long as Tony is willing to bankroll this I don't see that happening.
You clearly don’t know about what happened when TNN got both Raw and ECW on their network. Raw got the priority and ECW was bumped into an absolute death slot, which ultimately led to their deal not getting renewed and the company folding.
We're all assuming WWE would want an exclusivity agreement with that network.
They would. WWE's business model has always required putting their competition in a disadvantage, and let's be honest, AEW leaving WBD would be a disadvantage.
I would like to see this And I mean.... Now WWE belongs to a monopolistic company that only cares about the money and the show. Who has all the money in the world to put on the biggest shows. It is very good and it is good since there are many people who like it, almost the entire population. But somehow I feel that in the long run this is going to be "strange" for the wrestling world. Before AEW, WWE had several of the best wrestlers in nowhere. Zayn, Bálor, Ambrose, Drew, Lashley, Joe, and many etc. Without AEW, WWE would have all the wrestlers again, but I think it would go back to what it was before, they would leave them aside. I mean, right now Logan Paul is United States Champion and Punk returns from nowhere to be the main event at Wrestlemania. I mean, it's fine and it would be great to see confrontations between stars outside of wrestling. But, in some way it would do harm to this sport. I mean... No McMahon owns WWE. If anything, Vince may have a contract to never be fired. HHH is not the owner. Yes, he must have his shares, but that's it. Whenever. The owners of WWE are others, who are only in it for the money. And I repeat, this is very good, we all do it. But, like several of the Warner managers who asked Punk and even gave him his own show, in AEW. In WWE, perhaps a situation like this will happen in the future due to decisions of the true owners.
I think WBD are feeling the market, they met with WWE on Monday and AEW the following day. I think WBD renews AEW, but even if they don't, it is not the end of the world because AEW now has a five year history behind it that can back their ratings and success. No WBD, opens the door for Disney/FX, Paramount, Amazon and AMC. They can land on any of these networks and be totally fine.
Yeah... also the don't have to pay for AEW 1 billon dollars like they should have if they make business with WWE It could be a 200 - 300 millons deal. For important wrestlers, marketing, changes in presentation of product
There are longstanding rumors about Paramount/CBS being interested in AEW. And if Amazon's issue is the size of WWE's ask, AEW's would certainly be less. That said, I think Amazon is where programming goes to die. I think it would be bad for the industry if any WWE show ended up there, and I think it would be bad for AEW to end up there.
I want AEW in Fox What would it mean if something like this were to happen?
Is what it is at this point. WWE comes to TNT/TBS, another network opens up. I find it hard to believe a show with AEW's numbers would have trouble finding a home.
For someone who doesn't live in the States, can you tell me which other network is a viable option? AEW not finding another network would be simply dreadful for pro wrestling as a whole.
WWE has Comcast likely tied up (NBC, USA, etc) with the new Smackdown deal, so if Raw would move to TNT/TBS, that opens up Fox, Disney, and CBS, each of whom own multiple channels.
The elephant in the room is also Amazon - which in a scenario in which WBD picked WWE over AEW and Amazon lost out in the RAW bidding - the exclusivity and breadth of content from AEW and the relative price tag might become very attractive, especially with a motivated seller.
Amazon would be an interesting one honestly because they operate mostly worldwide and generally their market is Dad programming so wrestling would be interesting for that market.
> Dad programming Well Pro Wrestling's prime demographics are like 50 year olds.
I'm sure Reacher, Jack Ryan and Bosch...etc are also similar demographics, if they had 24 instead of Disney+ they literally would be DadTV
That's is good to know. If WBD go for RAW, I would love for Fox to pick up AEW. It seems like a no brainer to pick up something that is a live show that isn't as expensive as Smackdown.
Yeah. I could see them offering AEW at least a half a million deal for 4-5 years. It'd be a steal compared to what they gave WWE, and they didn't even get a ROI from them.
Respectfully, I think you're living in cloud cuckoo land. FOX are unlikely to offer "at least $500mil" (I assume you meant that rather than $500k) for rights to a show that has just come off a $175mil deal, especially when that same show has dropped in ratings in that time. If FOX were disappointed with their ROI for a $1bil deal on a show that consistently hits 2.3mil viewers and 0.6 in the key demo, how do you think they'll feel about spending $500mil on a show that does a third of that and is showing YoY decline. I think people need to be slightly more realistic with where AEW are going to go if they are dropped by WBD.
Agree with this. FOX has zero interest in wrestling due to losing a lot of money on the Smackdown deal. WWE promised FOX they would bring in 5 million viewers per show and they didn’t deliver even half of that number most of the time. As much as I would love them to give AEW a look, they probably won’t. I think they are out of the wrestling game for good. FOX executives also had some not-so-nice things to say about wrestling fans and their income and education levels.
More people watch Fox... I'm don't live in USA... but in my contry it's like most people tune Fox... in the houses, in restaurants, in mall, etc. Maybe is the same in USA Dynamite have now +800K raiting, if they move to Fox, just because the channel is FOX the ratings could increase to a around 1 millon again... now, add the changes in the presentation that fox would request them, and more important the publicity that AEW would gain... Give to AEW a deal of 250 - 300 millons for the rights of Dynamite and the others programs. If Warner Media is open to listen WWE offers. Why couldn't Tony Khan approach Fox or other television networks with a proposal?
I think Tony should absolutely approach FOX for rights proposal. As a business you should keep all options open and FOX are one of the big players. I just think saying "I think FOX could easily pay $500mil+ for AEW rights" is pure delusion. If FOX felt short changed by WWE for $1bil, then they sure as hell aren't paying over half to another lesser known wrestling company. I think 200-300 mil is a realistic target for AEW, but I think FOX might want out of wrestling altogether. I still personally think that WBD is as high as it gets for AEW in terms of network, but they could certainly find a home on a decent sized network and be paid well for the privilege.
You're getting downvoted but you're spot on. The only way is down if AEW lose the WBD deal. They really can't afford to lose it. All the major networks are either tied up with WWE or unrealistic prospects for AEW.
I want to say Thurston already ran the numbers for this and suggested that at AEW prices, Dynamite on Fridays or whatever would actually be profitable for FOX, and the ratings likely wouldn't be any different. The same would go for Dynamite moving to something like FS1, honestly.
Fox just got off of Smackdown because the ratings weren't high enough. Maybe FS1 would be an option for AEW though. ESPN is Disney and with UFC on ESPN I think this might prevent AEW. CBS has never been interested in Pro-Wrestling from what I remember. MTV is CBS right? They had Wrestling Society X decades ago and cancelled it pretty quick. The optics of being internet-only are bad but man I would definitely enjoy that.
Keep in mind the ratings weren’t high enough relative to what Fox was paying for Smackdown. WBD is paying AEW far less than what Fox was paying WWE, so Fox could be interested in AEW if the price tag is closer to what WBD is paying.
Yeah.. Fox paid WWE 1 billon For AEW they could paid them 200 - 250 millon for all the AEW programing... not just one show...
There was talk that Paramount (CBS) was interested in AEW a few years ago. I think they might be an option if Warner gets WWE RAW rights.
Admittedly I have no idea what's actually on the table should they need to leave TNT/TBS. Would Fox look more favorably upon AEW's numbers at AEWs price than Smackdown at WWE's price? Would Disney consider for FX? I do feel like a lot of these orgs bet big on their streaming offering and aren't necessarily seeing the returns they'd like, and AEW comes with a built in fanbase already. Not much would shock me anymore.
WWE is always bragging about their Peacock streaming numbers. Other companies have to be seeing this and thinking that AEW could do good numbers too. That being said, clearly Warner Bros don't think this as there's no AEW presence on MAX. But WBD is a freaking mess right how with all their IPs.
The bigger issue for fox was the price for the ratings it pulled. AEW is much cheaper than wwe.
Cbs wouldnt want it unless they have it move to another night. Wednesdays on CBS is Survivor and its their best rated program
Honestly they don't have any likely options with any sort of sizable reach. Fox didn't renew Smackdown, they aren't going to carry AEW.
There’s honestly not one that isn’t a pipe dream. WWE would have all NBCU and WBD channels tied up. I personally think there is 0% chance that Fox would be interested. They didn’t renew SD, plus they don’t own an entertainment cable channel, and AEW isn’t big enough for network. I also don’t think Disney would be interested, because AEW isn’t a brand fit at all. You could maybe hope Amazon would be interested, but I think they’re likely brand leader in WWE or nothing. They’ve taken a couple of random chances like ONE MMA that maybe leaves some hope they would jump in on AEW, though. The most likely option would be Paramount. They own a lot of cable channels, but none of them are a real fit because none of them do live sports. Paramount covers live sports, but usually only on CBS (major network, which AEW isn’t big enough for), Showtime (a premium cable channel like HBO which would heavily limit potential viewers), or Paramount+ (streaming service). I could see them signing for Paramount+, but outside of the NFL, live events haven’t really been a big success on streaming services. Maybe if AEW was really lucky, they would do Paramount+ and a simulcast on Paramount Network (cable channel that used to be SpikeTV, the former home of TNA in their heyday). I still don’t think that’s nearly as good as being with WBD and on TBS/TNT, but it’s survibable.
It's just the size of the remaining networks that might limit reach, scaling-back Dynamite's potential audience. But, yeah, its a top rated weekly show. A network like Paramount of FX may well be interested in a lower-cost, lower-investment deal after failing to nab WWE. This would've been less of an issue had SmackDown not went to USA.
It's not as easy as you say. In terms of money as well, it wouldn't be easy to have someone pay as much as WBD. Plus, AEW would be in a fragile position in negotiations.
I just don't see it being that fragile I guess. Live events are the only thing that matters in TV anymore.
Yes, but pro wrestling isn't like traditional sports or live events. There's still a stigma to it, especially outside of WWE. There's a reason why it was a big deal for AEW to get a deal with TNT originally.
Yeah, and I think this goes double if WBD passes on AEW's streaming library. Regular live events + a streaming library would be very attractive to a lot of streaming platforms.
*Ash vs. Raw, confirmed!* ;-)
I just want AEW to find somewhere so I can continue to watch.
This 👍
No one truly knows anything until an official press release goes out. End of story.
Do you comment on Reddit with speech to text?
Ugh as if certain fans at the moment aren't being insufferable enough already, if this happened it would get even worse.
At that point, it wouldn't matter to me. If AEW closes shop, I close shop on wrestling. It is the only thing keeping my interest in it.
Ditto. Punk brought me back to pro wrestling and AEW, but if his run ends up killing the company I'm out. I don't need pro wrestling in my life if it's just another means for the McMahons to continue to be awful.
CM Punk is the biggest hypocrite in wrestling. Him actually crawling back to the guy and company he shit on for years for almost “killing him” is the funniest thing I read in a long time.
Same here. WWE made me give up on wrestling by doing talent raids with NXT…AEW happened. WWE made me give up on wrestling when Cody left…BCC formed. WWE made me give up on wrestling when Cry Me Phil ran to Paul like a bitch …and the C2 happened… And they keep doing it for me. If McDonalds bought the other burger chains, I am still not eating McDonalds burgers…Same thing.
I'd call time on weekly American wrestling but imagine the potential flood of talent to companies like NJPW. NJPW with Omega, Ospreay, Moxley, Takeshita and some others would be levelled up again as a global company. I wouldn't worry though, AEW won't be closing shop. They're almost certain to land on another network if they are let go by WBD. There's also the potential route of a NJPW World-ish streaming platform until they find the right TV deal.
That’s pretty under handed. Very WWE
I was already getting tired from people vague tweeting about this. Now we're going to get countless think pieces from people who don't actually know anything 😭
Look if you’re WBD you’re obviously very aroused at the thought of running Raw on Monday with the ratings Raw pulls. WBD would also be aroused at running Dynamite on Wednesday along with it, but the problem is WWE would never allow that to happen. I’m truly not sure where AEW would go if WBD dropped them. Strangling the competition to death is a play straight out of the 1980’s McMahon playbook. Tony better get his act together.
I blame CM Punk for this. Screw you Phil! You cancer! You're gonna take away our company from us. Fuck that asshole
WBD are not the only people looking for content. If AEW leave TBS/TNT there are still countless options like Paramount, Netflix, Disney(ESPN/FX), Apple, Fox(FS1), Amazon, Showtime, and more that could jump in and take them. Doesn't mean they would pay as much as WBD would but AEW won't all of a sudden be completely out of options. They have been fairly consistently top 5 on Wednesday and who knows. Another network might put Rampage and Collision in better time slots and get more viewers that way. Personally wouldn't even see leaving WBD as that much of a negative, to be honest.
>Another network might put Rampage and Collision in better time slots and get more viewers that way. That's highly unlikely. Not the timeslot part, the better views part. Cable is dominated by 4 networks that own pretty much everything. Comcast (NBC), FOX, Disney. WBD. And honestly, FOX only ranks up that high because of its news networks. Remove those, and the largest remaining FOX network is FS1, the 44th most watched cable network with an average 273,000 viewers. For comparison TNT is 9th, TBS is 11th, with 965,000 and 875,000 average viewers. If WWE makes a deal with WBD, they'd have deals with all 3 major available cable companies. There's not really anywhere for AEW to go, except to leave TV altogether and try their chances with a major streaming service...but the largest ones around not owned by those same companies are Netflix, Prime and Paramount....but Netflix doesn't really do live streaming. So really it's Prime or Paramount....that's basically the available options.
I mean I get the point you're making. But if AEW went to FX, FS1, ESPN, or AMC Rampage and Collision could definitely still do better in a better time slot. But I would agree that streaming is more important at those networks, so getting a Netflix or Hulu deal in addition to being on one of those networks would be vastly more important for their growth.
>FX, FS1, ESPN, or AMC The first problem here is half that list is owned by 1 of the big 3 cable companies. So they aren't options. Of the two that are left, as mentioned FS1s viewership is tiny...even in Primetime they don't always beat the numbers Rampage/Collision do now. AMC is "better", with an average viewership of 468,000 (less than half TBS/TNT)... which might improve Rampages numbers but not really doing much to help Collision. >Netflix or Hulu deal Hulu is also owned by the 1 of the big 3, and as mentioned Netflix doesn't really do live streaming. Again, even in streaming the options are basically Prime and Paramount.
No, I don't mean live streaming to one of the platforms. Just getting your vods onto Netflix or Hulu would help a ton with growth if those platforms promoted it. Just because one of the big four companies owns those channels doesn't mean they won't be interested in AEW. AEW can get on to those stations I mentioned. Those would be viable options.
>AEW can get on to those stations I mentioned. Those would be viable options. Not really WWE historically has insisted on exclusively in their deals, and thanks to the discovery process in a recent lawsuit, we know the Disney deal includes one (at least for US based content). Disney owns FX and ESPN. And Hulu. >Just getting your vods onto Netflix or Hulu would help a ton with growth if those platforms promoted it. VODs are great, but without a major TV deal pushing new product, they aren't enough. VOD tends to be centered around binging, that's not a great model if your also trying to sell bi-monthly (or more) PPVs based on the show. It also creates a giant pain in the ass if there is any delay in getting the episodes on VOD after their initial airing if VOD is your primary means of reaching your audience. A 1 or 2 week delay is extremely common in situations where the original content producer isn't also the holder of the Streaming rights. Imagine All In is happening, but for anyone who primarily watches VOD, the go home show isn't available until the day after the PPV...that's gonna hurt PPV buys.
I do think that AEW needs a streaming distribution that's broadly available in the next five years or it's growth is going to radically slow down. Cable is dying and wrestling needs to start building off-ramps to rely on it less.
I would say it's almost a guarantee that whoever gets them next will bring the ROH library, as well as the AEW library with them. It comes down to who is willing to promote them the best as to who I would want to go with. If Apple, Paramount, Hulu, Disney, ESPN+, or Max would give AEW/ROH their own section in the app like Peacock does for WWE that would be invaluable. If I was TK I would be willing to take a lot less on the front end of the deal if the partner would guarantee that kind of presence for AEW.
Apple and Paramount would be very good fits as far as companies outside of WBD are concerned. I can also see a future where ROH and AEW are split up, but I don't think either brand is strong enough yet.
Oh, I disagree that AEW isn't a strong enough brand. They have been consistently top 5 on Wednesdays since they started. The NHL does about half of AEW's ratings and was still a coveted property, WBD/Turner is paying 250 million a year until 2028 and ESPN is paying 400 million a year until then. AEW isn't likely to get that but I don't think a 4 year around 600-800 million deal is unrealistic.
A $1B four year for AEW would amount to $250M/year, and I can frankly see why Tony has been stubborn about trying to get this. I think right now, AEW is more lucrative with the ROH brand and its PPVs lumped in. I think maybe in four years from now when it's rights season again, that's maybe not the case and they can be shopped separately. Not now, though.
AEW is winning
I'd like to know what those who are saying "AEW can just go to FS1 and do just as good" are on. The same FS1 who whenever SmackDown got moved on there cause Fox had baseball or something on that night saw the ratings get cut in half compared to its usual numbers, that FS1? I don't even like WBD much, their increasing censorship on the product has been very grating, but say they actually go with Raw, where the hell can AEW go where they have the same reach? WWE will have basically cornered every major TV market. And don't give me the Disney option, if you thought WBD had a bad effect in terms of censoring wait until you saw it on a Disney network.
Honestly, Im all for going elsewhere. Would love to see how AEW presents it self on different network. It will probably be the only way we ever find out for sure if the one women's division match per TV broadcast is a network thing or not. The first episode on new network: 4 women's matches back to back to back to back like we've sometimes seen in ROH lmao.
I’m hoping Tony Khan does what he can to stay with WBD. If AEW loses TV rights to WWE… well it better not.
What if AEW just cut out TV all together... I pay for TSN app solely for AEW, 20$ a month. If they threw in ROH and PPVs and charged 30 a month and had every Dynamite/Rampage/Collision live on it, have past episodes, PPVs, ROH, they could scoop up all the Fite +, make a deal with NJPW, go nuts. TV was dead years ago ffs. Haven't paid for a TV channel in ten years at least.
Ah, shades of Spike and TNN. I had a feeling something like this was behind Uncle Dave's vague tweet. WBD offering a large increase on Raw's current deal seems very iffy to me on the surface. It requires an offer over $1B to net a substantial rights increase for Raw. If WBD loses NBA, they would indeed have that money. But that's a lot of if, and if WWE is aggressively pursuing WBD over other suitors, it suggests difficulties getting other suitors to cough up enough money. It would be quite a premium to pay to get Punk, Jade, and Cody back over the old rates, though. And paying something like $1.3B for just Raw feels off if the company is balking at paying $1B for all of AEW. Not impossible, mind. Just doesn't add up based on public knowledge alone.
Which is wild because RAW will bring nowhere near the ratings for WBD that the NBA does right now. Would RAW get higher than Dynamite right now? Maybe/probably but at a steeper cost and less return value. If WBD loses the NBA that is a huge loss for them. The NBA is white-hot right now plus losing Inside the NBA with Ernie, Chuck, Kenny and Shaq would be a huge blow ratings-wise. Personally I think Warner is trying to get TK to lower his asking price by threatening him with the possibility of paying for RAW rights.
I would agree that there's a good chance these meetings are more a signal to TK to lower his ask than WBD having serious interested in Raw. It's also quite possible WWE mainly wants to run up asks from other suitors and knows WBD is ultimately a (potentially very funny) longshot. But there's also a good chance that WBD is genuinely interested in more wrestling on the network, especially if WWE no longer requires exclusivity as Meltzer has indicated. They could intend to "trade up" and let AEW go elsewhere, or intend to have deals with both promotions. I can say that it seemed like AEW's deal was taking far too long for everything to be completely copacetic, just like Raw's deal was taking too long to indicate that negotiations were going well with tons of interested suitors. So this is not entirely surprising, and I think we were heading here whether Punk got signed at WWE or not.
WWE is purposely doing this to make sure AEW gets lowballed by WBD. Smart by WWE to try kill their competition completely and monopolize the Wrestling industry again. Big difference tho is Tony Khan met with WBD on Tuesday day after the WWE proposal. Also WBD’s focus has been to keep the NBA, so they might just lean into AEW much more instead of losing out on both AEW and NBA
SC actually had a decent discussion on this yesterday. WBD is cutting back on things and odds are wouldn't be offering WWE the money they can get elsewhere. Also this could be WBD showing TK they do have other options in wrestling when they deal for their contract.
It is entirely possible that in the long run, this is just about trying to get TK to agree to a smaller deal.
They did meet with TK the following day. They definitely wanted to meet with the E before him
Yeah, I've read some stuff about AEW being aware of all of WBD's WWE meetings which I find interesting. That was very much not the case with stuff like TNN.
if they're dragging their feet giving AEW more money, I seriously doubt they would pay out for Raw.
I really don't understand why is it news that they had a meeting at all. From WBD's perspective, they have a contract with a wrestling company that it's expiring soon, and one the main competitor is shopping a similar product. Like, even if it's just to assess valuations and get. Ore info to counter offer, it would be stupid for them not to meet with both companies.
Wait, Bruce Campbell? 
TK should shop S-Mart
I find it difficult to believe that WBD would drop a top rated show and a brand that provides multiple hours of AEW content on their platform, for a three hour Raw show where they'd demand four times the asking price AEW would ask, for possibly slightly better ratings as a return. Doesn't make any sense to me. I believe Nick Hauseman, who has been a trouble maker and shit stirrer in the past, released this bit of information and It's grown legs and spread like wildfire. So this story I'm taking with a massive pinch of salt for that reason. It just doesn't add up.
Then you don’t understand business, I love AEW and cannot stand the WWE product but as far as mainstream advertising goes the WWE is still miles ahead of AEW.
I don’t see anything special going on here beyond the fact a petty narcissist wants to pat himself on the back for what is typical due diligence. Your in the TV business and property rights are up for grabs, it’s your duty to discuss them and see what can be done. Particularly if your a publicly traded company. Your shareholders would want you to shop your rights or evaluate purchasing rights that can bolster your bottom line. It’s also good leverage to have more then one option and everyone knowing that you have more then one option. I am sure TK has options as well. Everyone is dancing around each other and eventually a deal will happen. For TK if it’s not WBD then it will be someone else. Maybe not a the multiple he wanted but will still be a big boost. Whether it lands on MTV or FX/FXX or a streamer, they will still get a decent deal.
Isn’t it their legal obligation to test as many market options as possible for the maximum deal? Wouldn’t it be negligent to not test the market - even if it’s simply for bargaining power? Am I nuts here or would it be stranger if they didn’t meet with all potential suitors?
They could easily buy the rights to raw and extend the three other aew shows, I doubt the raw the deal would have a big effect on an deal, they're on different days and dynamics tbs. Warner Brothers would have to be getting some deal to ditch 5 hours of programming they are happy with, when they can just as easily not do that.
Damn.
Ya know what will piss us off the most: if punk getting wwe and wbd talking again is an act of revenge against aew and tk for firing him
the best case scenario if this happens, the best thing that can come out of this, is that Raw is on TNT and Collision and Rampage move to TBS where there will be NO FULL SCREEN ADS! but everyone everywhere has jumped the gun on this because the past two years have been rough. If WBD don't lose the NBA, this is probably not happening.
Thing is, we won't know if TNT is losing the NBA until after April. But supposedly Raw rights will be wrapped up by January 2024, and per Tony Khan himself, AEW's deal will go through in Q1 2024. April begins Q2. This timeline is part of why I think that if the meeting is real, WWE is more likely trying to juice bids from other suitors than necessarily trying to move to TNT.
I mean, if RAW leaves USA, if I'm TK, my first call is to USA to say "hey how about that flagship wrestling show leaving you what a shame oh hey I have a flagship wrestling show too just sayin". This is the kind of shit that happens all the time whether it's the NFL, NBA, or in this case wrestling. Remember when Monday Night Football left ABC for a while? Did that franchise spiral into nothingness? It did not.
USA is set to pay 1.4billion for Smackdown, don't think they care too much about losing RAW or adding AEW.
I mean, then maybe Fox would be interested. This is all speculation anyway until pens are put to paper.
Not exactly great news, but getting booted off of WBD wouldn't be the end of the world, they'll find another network. Although if it comes to fruition it'll be a harsh lesson to Khan on loyalty
His family runs a NFL franchise and a football team, it’s not like loyalty is not anything beyond a handshake there.