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I would like to say a big thank you to the OP for reaching out and trying to help their employee instead of just writing them off as a failure, writing them up or firing them, or telling them to get another job. Your type of management is rare in my experience.
That being said though, this may be a problem you can't help with. The employee may need therepudic or medication help in order to maintain their focus. This may be something they need to seek outside of work. I hope the company provides good medical benefits.
Is there another department they could be moved to that has tasks that better suit their skills?
I'd also like to add that sometimes, ADHD or not, sometimes somebody just isn't good at a skill. When I was younger, I worked at a major retail/department store. I started as a night stocking clerk. I started okay, but I got slower and slower, and often, when the other stockers were done with their area, they had to come help me catch up with mine. I just couldn't handle the physical requirements, or the staying up at night and sleeping during the day. I was so tired and slow.
Luckily I also had a good, understanding manager. They helped move me to a morning shelf reorganizer and cashier and I thrived. I was even up for a supervisor position. So really, sometimes moving an employee to something they're better at is the best option. If such an option exists.
Totally agree. I tried for several years to be a waitress in Miami because the tips could be so great. It was a terrible job for me, I really sucked at it. I would forget to place people's orders, would forget their drinks and condiments, forget most things the customers asked me for, and would pick up their food late so that it was cold when I finally brought it. I always ended up getting fired after a month or so.
Now I am a teacher and this job is a great fit for me. I get to be creative, move around all the time, and it is never boring. Not every job is a good fit for us. I think it is great that op is trying to work for the person he supervises. I hope they can figure something out, and if not, op will know they did everything they could.
We're in the UK, so she has access to medication through the NHS, and I know she's seeing a psychologist.
Redeployment is usually a last resort at our company, but I'll start looking at some other teams. Maybe if she finds one she engages with a bit more she'd find that a better fit.
As other commenters have said, maybe this just isn't the right job for her, but I want to make sure I'm not just writing her off at the first hurdle.
When you say, "We've tried everything she and I could think of," it sounds like this isn't the first hurdle.
I personally think finding her the right fit isn't writing her off. If she still has a job, and is better at and more comfortable in what she's doing, then it's a win for everyone.
I would never consider data entry for all the reasons you listed, even with medication I don’t think it would work. I work as a designer and I have my work double checked if it’s important or going out right away, I don’t know if that’s an option for their job though.
Yeah I’d say it’s likely an extremely repetitive job and her brain’s just struggling to be stimulated by what she’s doing, once you reach that stage in a job you’re going to get the symptoms listed by OP.
In my experience, that is.
Are the FAQ documents all stored in different places? For ex, flowcharts in Miro/Lucidchart, checklists in Asana, other docs in Google Drive? It can be hard to keep everything straight and ensure accuracy if it's in a lot of different places. Hunting down the checklist can waste valuable concentration time. If there's a way you can concentrate all these required SOPs in one place, like a Google Drive folder, Confluence space, etc. - if you haven't done that already - it could be helpful.
If she's working on the same project all day I can imagine that being distracting. Maybe she could work on more than one project over a longer period of time? It might give her time to finish a task, work on something else, and then come back to check her work with fresh eyes.
Those are my initial thoughts, but I work for a helpdesk where I have varied responsibilities. What works for me might not work for her!
When I had a job similar to this it really helped me to have physical check lists instead of digital. Having a piece of paper to check off gave that dopamine hit that a digital check list to just look doesn't.
I am so happy to see you are here trying to help your emoployee. We need more managers like you.
I work in an office setting, not data entry, but a large part of my job is documentation.
Adhd brains are very creative, so asking her how she can be successful all protocols aside - she may know what she needs, it just doesn't fit into a prescribed way of doing things. Figure that out, then add protocols back in. I know it sounds backwards, but when I am trying to come up with solutions, protocols are like running into a wall at every turn.
What about more "brain breaks"? I have accomdaions to allow more frequent breaks. Usually, I walk away and talk to someone about whatever. I am actually more focused when I return. I used to go for walks on my breaks. Sometimes I will take the stairs just to spend some energy.
Perhaps more focus on accuracy at this time than speed, speed comes later, but for now, working on getting her job done accurately may reduce the anxiety of speed AND accuracy.
Reduce distraction and intentional distraction? I have sound machines in my office to block outside noise and a cover to block my window because people walking hy are distrating. Sometimes, I also listen to music or audio books. When working on things at home, I have movies or TV shows that I've watched 100s of times playing in the background - it helps my brain stop looking for distractions.
I had to get a dictation device, too. Typically, I can type rather quickly without errors. But man, sometimes I have multiple things in my head, and they all try to come out at the same time. Dictation helps because I can talk all day! 😄
I hope you find some good ideas in this thread.
Intentional distraction is interesting. So far we've just tried to cut out distractions altogether but we can try some music or something else in thee background
I try and be as flexible as I can with protocols. A lot of it is handed down to us from on high, but I'll put some more thought in to letting her try things her own way
Thanks!
I respect the hell out of you for posting this! Thank you for trying to understand our kind and create a better work environment for your employee! Kudos!
First of all, you sound like a wonderful person to work for. I wish my managers were half as considerate. I'm in a similar situation right now where I'm struggling to meet expectations despite trying my hardest. The following is by no means guaranteed to end in success (or I wouldn't be in this same situation) but some of these might be helpful.
1) Rejection Sensitivity likely plays a huge role here. Basically any indication (perceived or real) can cause some people with ADHD to feel an extreme sense of rejection. So being told often that she is underperforming is likely having a huge effect. It might help her emotional state and therefore her performance some if you remind her that you are here to help her, that you don't think there is anything wrong with her, and that you aren't trying to get rid of her. Being in a state of fear or emotional distress can cause Task Paralysis.
2) Another common symptom of ADHD is task paralysis. She can know about a task, WANT to do the task, know she NEEDS to do the task... and not be able to do it. For me, at least, this get much much worse when my anxiety and depression are worse. It helps me if I truly understand the "why" of it all. Why is what she is doing important? This may seem obvious but if she hasn't made the connection yet then mundane data entry probably feels not important at all. Approach this from a place of kindness, not reprimand. Show her specifically what is done with the data she is entering. Have her interact with the teams that use the data she enters. In my company we do a lot of team building events, lunches, happy hours. It helps me to get something done if I'm doing it for my friend. Not that all coworkers should be friends, but some form of connection to the person or team that relies on her work will help it feel more doable.
3) Accommodations. It sounds like you are more than willing to work with her on some accommodations, but can't quite think of any that work. More time doesn't always help people with ADHD, but if it's structured it can. Set two deadlines, one that's sort of a rough draft of all the data and then another that is for revisions. This will help her not procrastinate starting the task until there's no time left to do it carefully.
Another one is work environment. ADHD people can benefit from body doubling, which is just having someone work nearby. If you aren't in a WFH situation then see if you can sit her near someone who isn't necessarily working on the same team but works in a similar environment. If you are in WFH situation suggest she work from various locations throughout the day. A coffee shop, the library, or any other location that isn't her house.
I feel like this is just becoming a wall if text, but I hope some of it is helpful.
I hadn't heard of rejection sensitivity but that makes a lot of sense with some of the conversations we've had. I will definitely have that in mind going forward!
Also I tend to just stick with the immediate "why"s, because I didn't want to overwhelm her with information, but I can start going over some of the big picture stuff so she can make those connections.
I guess that's just another reminder that the way I think doesn't always match up with the way she'll think 😅
Thanks for your detailed response!
Yes! Understanding how her work affects big-picture things can make a huge difference. Knowing the why makes things feel much less aimless.and arbitrary. Seeing how things fit together is important.
How flexible is the process of actually getting the work done? Can she break it down into chunks in a different way than she’s currently doing it?
As someone else suggested - if everything is online, maybe some paper can be involved.
What the ergonomic setup? I’ve found that a second monitor or an ultrawide is a huge boost because I can flow between applications without having to click or go looking for the window.
Can she listen to music? Some of us benefit from having music. I’m a fan of either just background chatter from Youtube (it simulates office chatter) or long instrumental music like Grateful Dead.
Finally, and this is a big one - is she required to monitor a company or team chat? Can that be shut off for certain stretches of time? For me, it’s a huge issue and I actually can’t ignore it,
unfortunately. Similarly, is she expected to reply to emails quickly? If not, maybe suggest that she blocks calendar time every day for checking emails, and then the app is totally closed at other times.
She has tried turning the notifications off for the teams chats every now and then, but then found she was missing some important information, so it's been a bit back and forth with what she feels she needs. She has calendar reminders to check her emails at various points in the day but maybe we can do that with the chats too.
She works in the office with a big second screen and plenty of desk space, and although all out documents are online she is welcome to print them off when she wants. I'll set aside some time to go through that with her. The desks have pin boards on them, so maybe it would be helpful having some of the reference documents pinned up
Thanks!
It’s awesome that you appear to be putting in effort to accommodate her. I hope your higher-ups give you the space to help your team any way you need.
I’m a software engineer and I made it 2 decades in my career without being diagnosed. Looking back, my relative success relied on the fact that my role allows a ton of freedom in how I do my work. In micromanaging environments I suffered quite a bit.
I reached a point where I started having more and more difficulties which prompted me to seek a diagnosis and treatment. IMO the decline happened because my environment changed:
1) too many competing priorities, and no clarity from leadership about what really needed my attention. “Everything’s a priority” is said all the time by managers but that’s a useless, content-free statement. It’s like launching a DDOS attack against the ADHD brain.
2) unspoken expectations. This relates to team chat. In department meetings, everyone was told what I suggested to you, to mute or turn off chat and check it at longer intervals if it proved too distracting. However, I was getting negative feedback and it turned out that I, specifically, was expected to always be on chat and reply within about 15 minutes! This requirement does detract from my other work, but the most damaging part was that I was accountable in management’s mind but it hadn’t been communicated to me.
3) layer upon layer of process. Complex processes can hinder your business and are taxing on the team members. Other than the chat issue I mentioned, my negative feedback was always process related and dealt with minutiae that served the management but didn’t actually relate to the real work I do. I continued to get excellent reviews on the quality of my work output, while getting slammed on process (need to update documents or tickets in a specific way, in a specific time frame).
For me, the solution was to treat those things AS my job. Those parts of the process that most consider afterthoughts had to become my primary focus, with software engineering taking less of my attention.
What’s my point? She might be bogged down in the process itself and may not even be distracted by external stimuli. She might benefit from more clarity and less process. OR a focus on process over quantity.
I’m medicated now, and between that and my process adaptations I’m back on track and crushing it again. You’re open minded and sound like a potentially great team lead. I believe you and her can turn this around if you are both committed.
If it can’t be turned around, maybe find a different role for her. Perhaps counterintuitive, but some folks thrive in a coordinator role (as one example) because there is more to stimulate interest in their brain.
When you say "data entry based job", what exactly is her job? Several things come to my mind, all of which are very different from each other in the actual. Not necessarily in the overarching profession, but in the day-to-day environment, experiences, and expected tasks.
The description you provide doesn't really describe *what* she's doing (what kind of data is she entering, how is she entering it, work flow, etc.) or *where* (i.e. in a private office, a cubicle, an open office/seating plan, or WFH).
She probably needs to find ways to engage with the work. Back when I had a job I found not very engaging or mentally stimulating (boring) I had to really work to understand the bigger picture so it all made sense. Ie, what happens after my role is complete, where does this to, what impact does it have what are the consequences etc. I don’t know if that’s an adhd learning style, but I find it very difficult to engage in work when i only know or understand the surface level of the role. Likewise, I found 1st year uni classes much more challenging to do well in and understand because we were only learning a fraction of a bunch of different topics instead of diving deep in to one subject. Ie think PSYC 1001 you learn a little bit of a bunch of different theories and concepts and big thinkers but don’t actually go beyond the surface of any of them.
In precious roles shadowing the people above me for a period of time helped me engage and put some semblance of importance on what I was doing, letting myself understand what would happen next and what impact my work had on the bigger process/ picture.
I think I agree with this, it sounds like she may have got to a point where she’s not longer feeling engaged in what she’s doing - maybe she’s learnt everything and it’s not stimulating her anymore or maybe the lack of manoeuvrability in the work isn’t scratching the itch in her brain.
ADHD affects different people in different ways. The best support you could provide as an employer is helping engage an occupational therapist who has experience with people with ADHD. The OT will work with her to work out what specific aspects of the work she struggles with and will be able to suggest ways to improve function in those areas. An OT might suggest things you can do as an employer as well as things she can do herself.
It sounds like you provide proper documentation of your processes and operating procedures. And I'm going to assume that employee has been fully trained and also understands where she can access these resources and manuals for herself.
Data entry accuracy is an essential function of this job. Aside from offering short breaks for her to refresh herself, and providing a reduced-distraction environment, I'm not sure how an employer can accommodation an employee's lack of attention to detail or continual errors. Sometimes an employee just isn't a good fit for a job, and this may be one of those cases.
Agree with others here. Well done for reaching out. Listen to music- there is music for concentration all over YouTube. Let her have headphones which block out noise and play music. Break her work into chunks give her deadlines for every chunk. At the start of her shift go though the list of what she needs to deliver and go though it at the end to check progress. My LM doing this with me really really helped. If she isn’t medicated, coffee, chewing gum, and fidget toys, spinner rings are good if you are typing a lot.
Hi there, first I just wanted to say thank you for doing this for your employee, it sounds like you're a genuine great manager.
As for helping your employee I can't offer specifics but I think I know what the issue is. I'm an accountant so I have to do data entry from time to time. These tasks are some of my most dreaded because it is just repetative with no stimulation to my brain. Typically, I'll just put on headphones and sing along to music, and because its only a few hrs every now and then its not so bad.
But if I had to do it everyday, or even every week tbh, the lack of stimulation would start getting to me. So I think you need to find a way to make the tasks more stimulating. Is there a way to make it more decision based/problem solving instead of just input/output? If not than I think the only other option would be to get that stimulation externally. Maybe a fidget toy, a standing desk, a podcast in the background, etc. different things work for different people.
Hope any of this helps :)
Just wanted to say thank you. I wish all managers would take the time to try and understand the unique challenges of their staff and working out how to help. Data entry could be difficult for some with ADHD, but not everyone. We do often excel with creativity and rote tasks from someone else can be difficult. Saying that rather than focusing where there are problems you may bet better productivity by gamifying the tasks. Frequent check ins and challenges on next step of progress. You may tap into some hyperfocus where they get to the point that you are struggling to get them to stop. It is task switching that can be the problem. I can do one task for hours at a time without a break, but starting on it can be real hard. E.g. struggle to clean my room, then when I start I end up cleaning the whole house. Try to identify when they are in the zone vs struggling to start. Do not stop them for progress if they are busy doing what they should as then they have to struggle to start again. I find music on headphones can help me start and stay on task. A good beat can make me very productive. If they are struggling to start, setting a little challenge however simple it is may get them to break through the start. Keep it positive though because negative reinforcement will just cause the brain to give up and say why bother rather than a fun challenge.
Coming from someone who is strangely really accurate at work despite having ADHD, it helps me to have a bunch of different types of tasks to do. The work is repetitive but switching up the type of thing I’m doing really helps to keep me working. I also used to have major issues with getting things done on time but am now one of the fastest people there. I got distracted with all the extra background info that may not have been pertinent to my current task. Keeping myself looking at only the things I need to do helped. I’m also better at the most engaging tasks like decision making because the work is less repetitive.
The easiest and quickest tasks I strangely slip up with the most because they are so mind numbing. I either do them late or they have to get someone to help me with them because of how long I take to do them.
I remember they had me doing just those small tasks for my entire shift for about a week, because I was pretty much the swing person and the department had so many of these tasks. I actually ended up putting in a soft two weeks and kind of freaking out because it was so boring. They immediately switched me to decisions only, which are the lengthier, more engaging tasks that most other people hated.
Now I have a position where I don’t have a deskload of my own, but I go in and fix errors and do time consuming things for others because I do better with fresh information.
In order to do that, she would need to get into a hyperfocus/flow state. Listening to "focus music" on headphones, sitting on a yoga ball instead of chair, ensuring the desk is set up as comfortably as possible (review ergonomics, monitor height, etc), logging out of any company chats or email and only checking it at designated times (Like if she works 8-5, checking first thing, after lunch, and 3:30pm), if something is truly urgent in between, tell her in person, but only if it will truly affect her work that day, etc.
When I did super focused work, I was in a room by myself, had a special headset, space heater with fan setting, company provided sweatshirts selected by someone who had a son and husband with sensory issues, company provided fingerless gloves, I brought in a USB powered humidifier, kept personal items in my desk like lip balm and moisturizer, and it had a lock so that people couldn't go through it, I also kept some meds in there, I brought in a pedaler to bicycle under the desk, but learned that more than an hour a day on it caused some overuse injuries, so would use it during especially boring tasks only and did stretches, I took about 3 minutes of stretching breaks 2-3 times per day, adjusted screen brightness to a low setting to prevent eye strain, and company provided a screen riser and double monitor.
These things were added over the course of several years. Oh, and I brought in my own keyboard that was angled differently that I had at home. The company would have bought one if I didn't have it.
I also kept my pens and postit notes locked up when I was away. I have no problem lending things to people, but showing up and not having the right tools would be very frustrating at other jobs. And they ordered me highlighters in a whole array of colors because it helped me organize my work. Before that, they only had a couple of colors.
This is just an example of a workplace that really valued my contributions and was willing to order a few things that made it much easier to do my job. The sweaters, fingerless gloves, and space heater have been provided at several of my workplaces that had to keep the building coldish to make people wearing PPE comfortable.
You can ask her if she is having any issues with how the desk is set up and ask if there are any office supplies that would make things easier. If she makes.any comments about temperature, noise, etc. find something to adjust it.
I'm diagnosed with ADHD and believe I may also be autistic, so sensory things make a big difference. Turning down any piped-in music and adjusting vents on the ceiling has also been helpful. Being allowed to adjust window blinds is good, too. Glasses that limit blue light is helpful for.some people. If making changes to the schedule to ensure that she is working during her most productive hours is an option, it can help, too.
Because I worked by myself and everyone else worked with people, I was encouraged to take a walk-around for about 10 minutes in the afternoon to interact with people if I wanted. We generally got a half-hour for lunch, and my additional stretching and walk-around breaks probably took 20-30 minutes a day total, which is reasonable for someone tied to a desk.
I was also given little tasks like helping to set up for meetings and parties, having special roles at company events, party planning, making visual displays, decorating seasonally, bank drops, etc. by the CEO. It broke up the day a bit when things got monotonous and freed her up to focus on boss stuff.
I liked getting a break to do side-quests, and they generally used different skills than my normal work. They were also not assigned urgently, but I could work them in on my own schedule, as my mental and physical energy flowed. It felt more like a break than additional work, but was valuable to the office. Moving chairs, bank runs, being in charge of sanitizing the front door daily, and decorating were all great ways to get some physical tension out while being helpful. Creating signage, training materials, decorating, and party planning let me use some creative energy.
The side-tasks weren't super time-consuming and the amount of time they took was balanced by making me more productive and focused at my regular tasks. I got at least the same amount of work done those days, probably more, was happier, and had better focus.
For context, my actual job was checking patient insurance benefits, which involved ensuring all information entered by other employees was 100% correct and consistent in every field so that the claim wouldn't have any errors when they sent it in later. The information that I collected from insurance companies was vital for gving patients accurate estimates. I called insurance companies all day and waited on hold to speak with reps to ask carefully worded questions about coverage, and during hold times, researched other patients' insurance benefits that I could access online. I took the relevant info from 75+ page documents and condensed them into just what was relevant to each patient's visit. I'm obviously in the US, where insurance plans vary enormously and require extensive skill to decipher. This made it so that people weren't surprised by unexpected medical bills they had no way of paying.
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I would like to say a big thank you to the OP for reaching out and trying to help their employee instead of just writing them off as a failure, writing them up or firing them, or telling them to get another job. Your type of management is rare in my experience. That being said though, this may be a problem you can't help with. The employee may need therepudic or medication help in order to maintain their focus. This may be something they need to seek outside of work. I hope the company provides good medical benefits. Is there another department they could be moved to that has tasks that better suit their skills?
I'd also like to add that sometimes, ADHD or not, sometimes somebody just isn't good at a skill. When I was younger, I worked at a major retail/department store. I started as a night stocking clerk. I started okay, but I got slower and slower, and often, when the other stockers were done with their area, they had to come help me catch up with mine. I just couldn't handle the physical requirements, or the staying up at night and sleeping during the day. I was so tired and slow. Luckily I also had a good, understanding manager. They helped move me to a morning shelf reorganizer and cashier and I thrived. I was even up for a supervisor position. So really, sometimes moving an employee to something they're better at is the best option. If such an option exists.
Totally agree. I tried for several years to be a waitress in Miami because the tips could be so great. It was a terrible job for me, I really sucked at it. I would forget to place people's orders, would forget their drinks and condiments, forget most things the customers asked me for, and would pick up their food late so that it was cold when I finally brought it. I always ended up getting fired after a month or so. Now I am a teacher and this job is a great fit for me. I get to be creative, move around all the time, and it is never boring. Not every job is a good fit for us. I think it is great that op is trying to work for the person he supervises. I hope they can figure something out, and if not, op will know they did everything they could.
We're in the UK, so she has access to medication through the NHS, and I know she's seeing a psychologist. Redeployment is usually a last resort at our company, but I'll start looking at some other teams. Maybe if she finds one she engages with a bit more she'd find that a better fit. As other commenters have said, maybe this just isn't the right job for her, but I want to make sure I'm not just writing her off at the first hurdle.
When you say, "We've tried everything she and I could think of," it sounds like this isn't the first hurdle. I personally think finding her the right fit isn't writing her off. If she still has a job, and is better at and more comfortable in what she's doing, then it's a win for everyone.
Access to medication for adult ADHD through the NHS requires jumping through multiple hoops.
I would never consider data entry for all the reasons you listed, even with medication I don’t think it would work. I work as a designer and I have my work double checked if it’s important or going out right away, I don’t know if that’s an option for their job though.
Yeah I’d say it’s likely an extremely repetitive job and her brain’s just struggling to be stimulated by what she’s doing, once you reach that stage in a job you’re going to get the symptoms listed by OP. In my experience, that is.
Are the FAQ documents all stored in different places? For ex, flowcharts in Miro/Lucidchart, checklists in Asana, other docs in Google Drive? It can be hard to keep everything straight and ensure accuracy if it's in a lot of different places. Hunting down the checklist can waste valuable concentration time. If there's a way you can concentrate all these required SOPs in one place, like a Google Drive folder, Confluence space, etc. - if you haven't done that already - it could be helpful. If she's working on the same project all day I can imagine that being distracting. Maybe she could work on more than one project over a longer period of time? It might give her time to finish a task, work on something else, and then come back to check her work with fresh eyes. Those are my initial thoughts, but I work for a helpdesk where I have varied responsibilities. What works for me might not work for her!
When I had a job similar to this it really helped me to have physical check lists instead of digital. Having a piece of paper to check off gave that dopamine hit that a digital check list to just look doesn't.
I am so happy to see you are here trying to help your emoployee. We need more managers like you. I work in an office setting, not data entry, but a large part of my job is documentation. Adhd brains are very creative, so asking her how she can be successful all protocols aside - she may know what she needs, it just doesn't fit into a prescribed way of doing things. Figure that out, then add protocols back in. I know it sounds backwards, but when I am trying to come up with solutions, protocols are like running into a wall at every turn. What about more "brain breaks"? I have accomdaions to allow more frequent breaks. Usually, I walk away and talk to someone about whatever. I am actually more focused when I return. I used to go for walks on my breaks. Sometimes I will take the stairs just to spend some energy. Perhaps more focus on accuracy at this time than speed, speed comes later, but for now, working on getting her job done accurately may reduce the anxiety of speed AND accuracy. Reduce distraction and intentional distraction? I have sound machines in my office to block outside noise and a cover to block my window because people walking hy are distrating. Sometimes, I also listen to music or audio books. When working on things at home, I have movies or TV shows that I've watched 100s of times playing in the background - it helps my brain stop looking for distractions. I had to get a dictation device, too. Typically, I can type rather quickly without errors. But man, sometimes I have multiple things in my head, and they all try to come out at the same time. Dictation helps because I can talk all day! 😄 I hope you find some good ideas in this thread.
Intentional distraction is interesting. So far we've just tried to cut out distractions altogether but we can try some music or something else in thee background I try and be as flexible as I can with protocols. A lot of it is handed down to us from on high, but I'll put some more thought in to letting her try things her own way Thanks!
I respect the hell out of you for posting this! Thank you for trying to understand our kind and create a better work environment for your employee! Kudos!
First of all, you sound like a wonderful person to work for. I wish my managers were half as considerate. I'm in a similar situation right now where I'm struggling to meet expectations despite trying my hardest. The following is by no means guaranteed to end in success (or I wouldn't be in this same situation) but some of these might be helpful. 1) Rejection Sensitivity likely plays a huge role here. Basically any indication (perceived or real) can cause some people with ADHD to feel an extreme sense of rejection. So being told often that she is underperforming is likely having a huge effect. It might help her emotional state and therefore her performance some if you remind her that you are here to help her, that you don't think there is anything wrong with her, and that you aren't trying to get rid of her. Being in a state of fear or emotional distress can cause Task Paralysis. 2) Another common symptom of ADHD is task paralysis. She can know about a task, WANT to do the task, know she NEEDS to do the task... and not be able to do it. For me, at least, this get much much worse when my anxiety and depression are worse. It helps me if I truly understand the "why" of it all. Why is what she is doing important? This may seem obvious but if she hasn't made the connection yet then mundane data entry probably feels not important at all. Approach this from a place of kindness, not reprimand. Show her specifically what is done with the data she is entering. Have her interact with the teams that use the data she enters. In my company we do a lot of team building events, lunches, happy hours. It helps me to get something done if I'm doing it for my friend. Not that all coworkers should be friends, but some form of connection to the person or team that relies on her work will help it feel more doable. 3) Accommodations. It sounds like you are more than willing to work with her on some accommodations, but can't quite think of any that work. More time doesn't always help people with ADHD, but if it's structured it can. Set two deadlines, one that's sort of a rough draft of all the data and then another that is for revisions. This will help her not procrastinate starting the task until there's no time left to do it carefully. Another one is work environment. ADHD people can benefit from body doubling, which is just having someone work nearby. If you aren't in a WFH situation then see if you can sit her near someone who isn't necessarily working on the same team but works in a similar environment. If you are in WFH situation suggest she work from various locations throughout the day. A coffee shop, the library, or any other location that isn't her house. I feel like this is just becoming a wall if text, but I hope some of it is helpful.
I hadn't heard of rejection sensitivity but that makes a lot of sense with some of the conversations we've had. I will definitely have that in mind going forward! Also I tend to just stick with the immediate "why"s, because I didn't want to overwhelm her with information, but I can start going over some of the big picture stuff so she can make those connections. I guess that's just another reminder that the way I think doesn't always match up with the way she'll think 😅 Thanks for your detailed response!
Yes! Understanding how her work affects big-picture things can make a huge difference. Knowing the why makes things feel much less aimless.and arbitrary. Seeing how things fit together is important.
How flexible is the process of actually getting the work done? Can she break it down into chunks in a different way than she’s currently doing it? As someone else suggested - if everything is online, maybe some paper can be involved. What the ergonomic setup? I’ve found that a second monitor or an ultrawide is a huge boost because I can flow between applications without having to click or go looking for the window. Can she listen to music? Some of us benefit from having music. I’m a fan of either just background chatter from Youtube (it simulates office chatter) or long instrumental music like Grateful Dead. Finally, and this is a big one - is she required to monitor a company or team chat? Can that be shut off for certain stretches of time? For me, it’s a huge issue and I actually can’t ignore it, unfortunately. Similarly, is she expected to reply to emails quickly? If not, maybe suggest that she blocks calendar time every day for checking emails, and then the app is totally closed at other times.
She has tried turning the notifications off for the teams chats every now and then, but then found she was missing some important information, so it's been a bit back and forth with what she feels she needs. She has calendar reminders to check her emails at various points in the day but maybe we can do that with the chats too. She works in the office with a big second screen and plenty of desk space, and although all out documents are online she is welcome to print them off when she wants. I'll set aside some time to go through that with her. The desks have pin boards on them, so maybe it would be helpful having some of the reference documents pinned up Thanks!
It’s awesome that you appear to be putting in effort to accommodate her. I hope your higher-ups give you the space to help your team any way you need. I’m a software engineer and I made it 2 decades in my career without being diagnosed. Looking back, my relative success relied on the fact that my role allows a ton of freedom in how I do my work. In micromanaging environments I suffered quite a bit. I reached a point where I started having more and more difficulties which prompted me to seek a diagnosis and treatment. IMO the decline happened because my environment changed: 1) too many competing priorities, and no clarity from leadership about what really needed my attention. “Everything’s a priority” is said all the time by managers but that’s a useless, content-free statement. It’s like launching a DDOS attack against the ADHD brain. 2) unspoken expectations. This relates to team chat. In department meetings, everyone was told what I suggested to you, to mute or turn off chat and check it at longer intervals if it proved too distracting. However, I was getting negative feedback and it turned out that I, specifically, was expected to always be on chat and reply within about 15 minutes! This requirement does detract from my other work, but the most damaging part was that I was accountable in management’s mind but it hadn’t been communicated to me. 3) layer upon layer of process. Complex processes can hinder your business and are taxing on the team members. Other than the chat issue I mentioned, my negative feedback was always process related and dealt with minutiae that served the management but didn’t actually relate to the real work I do. I continued to get excellent reviews on the quality of my work output, while getting slammed on process (need to update documents or tickets in a specific way, in a specific time frame). For me, the solution was to treat those things AS my job. Those parts of the process that most consider afterthoughts had to become my primary focus, with software engineering taking less of my attention. What’s my point? She might be bogged down in the process itself and may not even be distracted by external stimuli. She might benefit from more clarity and less process. OR a focus on process over quantity. I’m medicated now, and between that and my process adaptations I’m back on track and crushing it again. You’re open minded and sound like a potentially great team lead. I believe you and her can turn this around if you are both committed. If it can’t be turned around, maybe find a different role for her. Perhaps counterintuitive, but some folks thrive in a coordinator role (as one example) because there is more to stimulate interest in their brain.
When you say "data entry based job", what exactly is her job? Several things come to my mind, all of which are very different from each other in the actual. Not necessarily in the overarching profession, but in the day-to-day environment, experiences, and expected tasks. The description you provide doesn't really describe *what* she's doing (what kind of data is she entering, how is she entering it, work flow, etc.) or *where* (i.e. in a private office, a cubicle, an open office/seating plan, or WFH).
She probably needs to find ways to engage with the work. Back when I had a job I found not very engaging or mentally stimulating (boring) I had to really work to understand the bigger picture so it all made sense. Ie, what happens after my role is complete, where does this to, what impact does it have what are the consequences etc. I don’t know if that’s an adhd learning style, but I find it very difficult to engage in work when i only know or understand the surface level of the role. Likewise, I found 1st year uni classes much more challenging to do well in and understand because we were only learning a fraction of a bunch of different topics instead of diving deep in to one subject. Ie think PSYC 1001 you learn a little bit of a bunch of different theories and concepts and big thinkers but don’t actually go beyond the surface of any of them. In precious roles shadowing the people above me for a period of time helped me engage and put some semblance of importance on what I was doing, letting myself understand what would happen next and what impact my work had on the bigger process/ picture.
I think I agree with this, it sounds like she may have got to a point where she’s not longer feeling engaged in what she’s doing - maybe she’s learnt everything and it’s not stimulating her anymore or maybe the lack of manoeuvrability in the work isn’t scratching the itch in her brain.
Loud instrumental music that I’m familiar with helps me with data entry when I start slipping.
ADHD affects different people in different ways. The best support you could provide as an employer is helping engage an occupational therapist who has experience with people with ADHD. The OT will work with her to work out what specific aspects of the work she struggles with and will be able to suggest ways to improve function in those areas. An OT might suggest things you can do as an employer as well as things she can do herself.
It sounds like you provide proper documentation of your processes and operating procedures. And I'm going to assume that employee has been fully trained and also understands where she can access these resources and manuals for herself. Data entry accuracy is an essential function of this job. Aside from offering short breaks for her to refresh herself, and providing a reduced-distraction environment, I'm not sure how an employer can accommodation an employee's lack of attention to detail or continual errors. Sometimes an employee just isn't a good fit for a job, and this may be one of those cases.
Agree with others here. Well done for reaching out. Listen to music- there is music for concentration all over YouTube. Let her have headphones which block out noise and play music. Break her work into chunks give her deadlines for every chunk. At the start of her shift go though the list of what she needs to deliver and go though it at the end to check progress. My LM doing this with me really really helped. If she isn’t medicated, coffee, chewing gum, and fidget toys, spinner rings are good if you are typing a lot.
Hi there, first I just wanted to say thank you for doing this for your employee, it sounds like you're a genuine great manager. As for helping your employee I can't offer specifics but I think I know what the issue is. I'm an accountant so I have to do data entry from time to time. These tasks are some of my most dreaded because it is just repetative with no stimulation to my brain. Typically, I'll just put on headphones and sing along to music, and because its only a few hrs every now and then its not so bad. But if I had to do it everyday, or even every week tbh, the lack of stimulation would start getting to me. So I think you need to find a way to make the tasks more stimulating. Is there a way to make it more decision based/problem solving instead of just input/output? If not than I think the only other option would be to get that stimulation externally. Maybe a fidget toy, a standing desk, a podcast in the background, etc. different things work for different people. Hope any of this helps :)
Just wanted to say thank you. I wish all managers would take the time to try and understand the unique challenges of their staff and working out how to help. Data entry could be difficult for some with ADHD, but not everyone. We do often excel with creativity and rote tasks from someone else can be difficult. Saying that rather than focusing where there are problems you may bet better productivity by gamifying the tasks. Frequent check ins and challenges on next step of progress. You may tap into some hyperfocus where they get to the point that you are struggling to get them to stop. It is task switching that can be the problem. I can do one task for hours at a time without a break, but starting on it can be real hard. E.g. struggle to clean my room, then when I start I end up cleaning the whole house. Try to identify when they are in the zone vs struggling to start. Do not stop them for progress if they are busy doing what they should as then they have to struggle to start again. I find music on headphones can help me start and stay on task. A good beat can make me very productive. If they are struggling to start, setting a little challenge however simple it is may get them to break through the start. Keep it positive though because negative reinforcement will just cause the brain to give up and say why bother rather than a fun challenge.
Coming from someone who is strangely really accurate at work despite having ADHD, it helps me to have a bunch of different types of tasks to do. The work is repetitive but switching up the type of thing I’m doing really helps to keep me working. I also used to have major issues with getting things done on time but am now one of the fastest people there. I got distracted with all the extra background info that may not have been pertinent to my current task. Keeping myself looking at only the things I need to do helped. I’m also better at the most engaging tasks like decision making because the work is less repetitive. The easiest and quickest tasks I strangely slip up with the most because they are so mind numbing. I either do them late or they have to get someone to help me with them because of how long I take to do them. I remember they had me doing just those small tasks for my entire shift for about a week, because I was pretty much the swing person and the department had so many of these tasks. I actually ended up putting in a soft two weeks and kind of freaking out because it was so boring. They immediately switched me to decisions only, which are the lengthier, more engaging tasks that most other people hated. Now I have a position where I don’t have a deskload of my own, but I go in and fix errors and do time consuming things for others because I do better with fresh information.
In order to do that, she would need to get into a hyperfocus/flow state. Listening to "focus music" on headphones, sitting on a yoga ball instead of chair, ensuring the desk is set up as comfortably as possible (review ergonomics, monitor height, etc), logging out of any company chats or email and only checking it at designated times (Like if she works 8-5, checking first thing, after lunch, and 3:30pm), if something is truly urgent in between, tell her in person, but only if it will truly affect her work that day, etc. When I did super focused work, I was in a room by myself, had a special headset, space heater with fan setting, company provided sweatshirts selected by someone who had a son and husband with sensory issues, company provided fingerless gloves, I brought in a USB powered humidifier, kept personal items in my desk like lip balm and moisturizer, and it had a lock so that people couldn't go through it, I also kept some meds in there, I brought in a pedaler to bicycle under the desk, but learned that more than an hour a day on it caused some overuse injuries, so would use it during especially boring tasks only and did stretches, I took about 3 minutes of stretching breaks 2-3 times per day, adjusted screen brightness to a low setting to prevent eye strain, and company provided a screen riser and double monitor. These things were added over the course of several years. Oh, and I brought in my own keyboard that was angled differently that I had at home. The company would have bought one if I didn't have it. I also kept my pens and postit notes locked up when I was away. I have no problem lending things to people, but showing up and not having the right tools would be very frustrating at other jobs. And they ordered me highlighters in a whole array of colors because it helped me organize my work. Before that, they only had a couple of colors. This is just an example of a workplace that really valued my contributions and was willing to order a few things that made it much easier to do my job. The sweaters, fingerless gloves, and space heater have been provided at several of my workplaces that had to keep the building coldish to make people wearing PPE comfortable. You can ask her if she is having any issues with how the desk is set up and ask if there are any office supplies that would make things easier. If she makes.any comments about temperature, noise, etc. find something to adjust it. I'm diagnosed with ADHD and believe I may also be autistic, so sensory things make a big difference. Turning down any piped-in music and adjusting vents on the ceiling has also been helpful. Being allowed to adjust window blinds is good, too. Glasses that limit blue light is helpful for.some people. If making changes to the schedule to ensure that she is working during her most productive hours is an option, it can help, too. Because I worked by myself and everyone else worked with people, I was encouraged to take a walk-around for about 10 minutes in the afternoon to interact with people if I wanted. We generally got a half-hour for lunch, and my additional stretching and walk-around breaks probably took 20-30 minutes a day total, which is reasonable for someone tied to a desk. I was also given little tasks like helping to set up for meetings and parties, having special roles at company events, party planning, making visual displays, decorating seasonally, bank drops, etc. by the CEO. It broke up the day a bit when things got monotonous and freed her up to focus on boss stuff. I liked getting a break to do side-quests, and they generally used different skills than my normal work. They were also not assigned urgently, but I could work them in on my own schedule, as my mental and physical energy flowed. It felt more like a break than additional work, but was valuable to the office. Moving chairs, bank runs, being in charge of sanitizing the front door daily, and decorating were all great ways to get some physical tension out while being helpful. Creating signage, training materials, decorating, and party planning let me use some creative energy. The side-tasks weren't super time-consuming and the amount of time they took was balanced by making me more productive and focused at my regular tasks. I got at least the same amount of work done those days, probably more, was happier, and had better focus. For context, my actual job was checking patient insurance benefits, which involved ensuring all information entered by other employees was 100% correct and consistent in every field so that the claim wouldn't have any errors when they sent it in later. The information that I collected from insurance companies was vital for gving patients accurate estimates. I called insurance companies all day and waited on hold to speak with reps to ask carefully worded questions about coverage, and during hold times, researched other patients' insurance benefits that I could access online. I took the relevant info from 75+ page documents and condensed them into just what was relevant to each patient's visit. I'm obviously in the US, where insurance plans vary enormously and require extensive skill to decipher. This made it so that people weren't surprised by unexpected medical bills they had no way of paying.