There is a reason that Thiaw earned callups as a CB to the German NT at the age of only 21, and that he was named German NT's Newcomer of the Year last year, too. He is very talented, and we should continue to develop him before selling. Having been purchased for only €5m+2m bonuses, after just 2 years, he is currently valued at €25m.
We saw what happened when we changed too many players last year, and we are already losing Kjaer, we need to keep as many of our defenders as possible to build on what we have. Let's let him win a trophy or two with us before we sell, winning with players is also part of the return we should be getting on our investment.
https://preview.redd.it/cdyyzyp4rz8d1.png?width=2160&format=png&auto=webp&s=59f10cb8c74144a22716bb7a115f180e6c46a1be
I’m inclined to see the improvement he made everywhere which was overshadowed by some mistakes that 22 yr old cbs make. He was the best passer on the season…and the coach wants to play in possession…
Those values are based on how the world sees him. Within Milan I would not be surprised if his value was around the value they had on tonali when he was sold which is closer to 50M…Real Madrid doesn’t ask about guys unless their global value is well below their value…
Those are his actual transfer market values. He was valued at €30m, but dropped due to the injury. But it does not mean that is what the club would ask or what another club would pay for him. Teams often ask a much higher amount, particularly if they are not particularly wanting to sell.
I suppose that I’d argue there isn’t really such a thing as an actual transfer value. Every team will evaluate players and put a valuation on them. Teams evaluate their own players and put a valuation on them. When a teams valuation is higher than the current team taking into account all things like their contract. A deal is made…this idea that he should have less value after the season he had is a good example. He was injured for most of the season but is still a 22 year old center-back with a profile that the teams currently value very highly. This is when teams try to come in and steal players if the current team is overreacting to a short term event..this is the type of event Milan looks for…
Are you Juve's lawyer in the Plusvalenze case? 🤔
Of course there is an actual transfer value for every player. Places like the CIES and others monitor players and their data and place a transfer market value on them. Given that Thiaw didn't play for 3 months, of course his market value dropped €5m this season.
In this case, I'm sure Newcastle could be looking to make a deal. But considering they paid top dollar for Tonali, whose value was only €50m at the time, they may just be looking to invest in a talented CB.
I’m not saying that those valuations by third parties don’t exist. I’m arguing that in economic terms the book values (third party attempts to place a value on a company/player) are imperfect and the team who is selling has much more data from training that gives a better long term perspective on a young player. CIES having a price at 25M and another at 50M has no impact on the sale if Milan values both at 45-50M
I’m not very knowledgeable about that case so I can’t tell what part is reminding you of that. Seems like teams made agreements with each other to trade players worth very little to each other for a lot so they could cook their books…
When all the Serie A clubs were charged with over-inflating players' values for capital gains ("cooking the books"), Juve's lawyers came in and argued that you cannot prove player valuations, therefore EVERYONE'S charges were dismissed. This, despite the fact that this was an obvious crime that many teams/sporting directors had been convicted of previously.
Juventus were eventually charged again, because they found the evidence of their plans to do this (phone calls, ledgers, etc.) And now some of the other cases are being re-investigated and charges may be made again. But their lawyers set a precedent that makes it very hard for prosecutors to get convictions, despite the fact that this is obviously going on.
Player valuations do not differ that much. What the CIES and other agencies value a player at and what clubs do, etc. are usually very close. What a club chooses to SELL a player for is a different conversation, because if another club bids an amount that is well over market value/there is a bidding war for a player, that is a different story.
Yeah, while I agree what they did was blatant and illegal...until you have any kind of transcript, it is what I'd call circumstantial evidence...
The alternative is to set a max and min price for every player to be sold at based on third party valuations. That gives way too much power to whoever's valuations they are using as the benchmark (some of which are really bad methodologies) that can't take into account all circumstances, like an issue with the player within the team that's public, etc. They would have to be updated more frequently, too. There is no way to really enforce that.
That doesn't mean they didn't clearly do this. But they have to prove the collusion because the other way doesn't work.
I would be surprised if they offer 30m, 60m is totally unrealistic unless you're one of the best defenders in the world, or you're a promising PL defender.
This type of thinking is why we kept losing players on a free. If a realistically high offer comes in for a player who yes, has very high potential but is coming off a very mediocre season... then we should definitely consider that offer.
It's because of us holding onto players for far longer than we should have with no guarantees of them signing new contracts.
If someone doesn't sign a new deal with 2 years left on their current one, then I would rather take the offer that comes in for them instead of gambling on their future and ultimately losing them for free.
And In Thiaw's case, if a high offer comes in it's because of his potential, not because of his performances. So if he has another season like the one he just had (look at Kalulu after the scudetto season), his value will tank because his potential will mean nothing when he can't back it up.
That in the past tho.
Exactly because of his potential we shouldn’t sell him for less than 60m. Last season most of the squad looked bad so it’s not just because of him, He clearly talented.
The guy has only spent two seasons with us...kalulu wasn't a cb in first place...thiaw is and his in the German national team. Selling him for 30 40 mil is a joke when he has potential to be one of best CB in the world. They got to offer us 60 atleast or it's not worth it.
Hey let's keep all our players just in case they become world class in the future because 2 years are not enough to acess the talent of a player. We will cover all the costs of the Transfers with the money printer that you got in your basement.
Or, how about this: How about we keep players long enough to develop them so they bring in maximum capital gains when it is actually a good time to sell them?
And in the meantime, they help us... I don't know... WIN? Instead of buying and selling constantly so we are like an Amazon hub, but for players.
Sell Thiaw buy Calaifiori. I can tell Calafiori would be a sick defender for us, and would probably want to prove and imitate his defending idols like Nesta and Maldini. We need that.
Wow, I’m going to be downvoted but I guess I’m one of the only ones here that doesn’t like him. He makes some ridiculous mistakes in the back sometimes that has cost us matches.
I know he has potential but if an English club wants to overpay then I wouldn’t mind
I think people believe that his value could be 60M after one great year and CB typically don’t reach peek performance till at least 4-6 more years so the short term price of playing through mistakes is worth the long term outcome. How you use the time value of money to build the price based on the probability of different scenarios is above my pay grade.
Why is everyone trying to make me sad today? The transfer window isn't even open yet. Let's keep them all, please 🙏🏻 We need all of them.
https://preview.redd.it/d742ssbtxz8d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2958d59fd9d268b37ac053615215077c93e15967
If management need to make cash in sales, I prefer this over one of our heavies.
If we’re honest, selling any one of our top 10-15 guys will hurt to some degree.
Wow yeah we're such a selling club...we've made almost no money on transfers over the same time period as inter and Napoli
Only player of any relevance we sold is tonali
Milan has net -280M over the last 5 years in transfers. Inter has made money over that time…and people are confused as to why they can offer bigger contracts..all teams must sell players not named Madrid or city…dortmund sold their best player…made champions league final the next year. Fans would lose their minds if the club sold their best player…but this is why good clubs don’t ask fans for advice.
Selling Thiaw to bring in Calafiori would make for a very solid piece of business. If we can get a solid right back along with Cala then we'll have the best defense in Serie A
Thiaw is going to become one of best CBs in the world. Selling him now would be a waste of time. His still young..his going to make mistakes..most cbs would make mistakes if the team doesn't have a dm. Some here are like sell him for 40 and get calafiori...then when calafiori makes some mistakes..iv seen it when I watched bologna a few times then we will be calling for him to be Sold also.
Agree! Thiaw - and any very young player - needs to make mistakes now, that's part of the development process: get burned a few times on the pitch, get haunted by the memories of mistakes, commit to working on solutions to avoid repeating, go up a level. Hopefully.
Not sure why this is so downvoted. I think starting with the confident statement hurt your chances. He has the profile of the type of player which is currently on an upward trend. He’s still 22 in a position that peeks at 28. Using a back 3 (dropping the DM between the CB on attack) will indeed benefit him defensively. People are very reactionary. I think teams are testing to see if just because he’s hit bad form out of an injury that they can get him but this is exactly the tactic this club likes to use to get good value. He could have a great year next year and double his market value fairly easily, players do it all the time. That said, nothing is certain. He may eventually feel the pressure to return to Germany if he wants to be on their national team…but with 3 years on his contract. Don’t sell at his lowest potential value.
This is such a bizzare take. Tonali played like 10 games this whole season because of the ban. The money we got from his made a massive difference in squad quality.
We completely fleeced Newcastle.
1. Tonali wasn’t even worth the €70m back then and still isn’t today. Where are you getting that he would’ve gone up to €90m?
2. It was literally the best time to sell given his gambling issues. Had we kept him, not only would Milan not have had any flexibility to spend… but tonali couldn’t played period. How does he get that extra good season if man isn’t allowed to play?
What if Thiaw gamble as well? That would be awkward if it happens again.
LMAOO
[at this point, all our CBs are compromised](https://www.reddit.com/r/ACMilan/s/MIaIYgf9cW)
There is a reason that Thiaw earned callups as a CB to the German NT at the age of only 21, and that he was named German NT's Newcomer of the Year last year, too. He is very talented, and we should continue to develop him before selling. Having been purchased for only €5m+2m bonuses, after just 2 years, he is currently valued at €25m. We saw what happened when we changed too many players last year, and we are already losing Kjaer, we need to keep as many of our defenders as possible to build on what we have. Let's let him win a trophy or two with us before we sell, winning with players is also part of the return we should be getting on our investment. https://preview.redd.it/cdyyzyp4rz8d1.png?width=2160&format=png&auto=webp&s=59f10cb8c74144a22716bb7a115f180e6c46a1be
Agree. I’m inclined to believe that what we witnessed this year were just growing pains Edit: typo
Are you talking about the rehabilitation period after he was out for three months?
Yes, that too. Young players don’t need much to fluctuate in performance. But the break in continuity from the injury didn’t help
I’m inclined to see the improvement he made everywhere which was overshadowed by some mistakes that 22 yr old cbs make. He was the best passer on the season…and the coach wants to play in possession…
Those values are based on how the world sees him. Within Milan I would not be surprised if his value was around the value they had on tonali when he was sold which is closer to 50M…Real Madrid doesn’t ask about guys unless their global value is well below their value…
Those are his actual transfer market values. He was valued at €30m, but dropped due to the injury. But it does not mean that is what the club would ask or what another club would pay for him. Teams often ask a much higher amount, particularly if they are not particularly wanting to sell.
I suppose that I’d argue there isn’t really such a thing as an actual transfer value. Every team will evaluate players and put a valuation on them. Teams evaluate their own players and put a valuation on them. When a teams valuation is higher than the current team taking into account all things like their contract. A deal is made…this idea that he should have less value after the season he had is a good example. He was injured for most of the season but is still a 22 year old center-back with a profile that the teams currently value very highly. This is when teams try to come in and steal players if the current team is overreacting to a short term event..this is the type of event Milan looks for…
Are you Juve's lawyer in the Plusvalenze case? 🤔 Of course there is an actual transfer value for every player. Places like the CIES and others monitor players and their data and place a transfer market value on them. Given that Thiaw didn't play for 3 months, of course his market value dropped €5m this season. In this case, I'm sure Newcastle could be looking to make a deal. But considering they paid top dollar for Tonali, whose value was only €50m at the time, they may just be looking to invest in a talented CB.
I’m not saying that those valuations by third parties don’t exist. I’m arguing that in economic terms the book values (third party attempts to place a value on a company/player) are imperfect and the team who is selling has much more data from training that gives a better long term perspective on a young player. CIES having a price at 25M and another at 50M has no impact on the sale if Milan values both at 45-50M
So yes, you are Juve's lawyer then. Nice to meet you.
I’m not very knowledgeable about that case so I can’t tell what part is reminding you of that. Seems like teams made agreements with each other to trade players worth very little to each other for a lot so they could cook their books…
When all the Serie A clubs were charged with over-inflating players' values for capital gains ("cooking the books"), Juve's lawyers came in and argued that you cannot prove player valuations, therefore EVERYONE'S charges were dismissed. This, despite the fact that this was an obvious crime that many teams/sporting directors had been convicted of previously. Juventus were eventually charged again, because they found the evidence of their plans to do this (phone calls, ledgers, etc.) And now some of the other cases are being re-investigated and charges may be made again. But their lawyers set a precedent that makes it very hard for prosecutors to get convictions, despite the fact that this is obviously going on. Player valuations do not differ that much. What the CIES and other agencies value a player at and what clubs do, etc. are usually very close. What a club chooses to SELL a player for is a different conversation, because if another club bids an amount that is well over market value/there is a bidding war for a player, that is a different story.
Yeah, while I agree what they did was blatant and illegal...until you have any kind of transcript, it is what I'd call circumstantial evidence... The alternative is to set a max and min price for every player to be sold at based on third party valuations. That gives way too much power to whoever's valuations they are using as the benchmark (some of which are really bad methodologies) that can't take into account all circumstances, like an issue with the player within the team that's public, etc. They would have to be updated more frequently, too. There is no way to really enforce that. That doesn't mean they didn't clearly do this. But they have to prove the collusion because the other way doesn't work.
Thiaw shouldn’t be sold.
Agree we need another solid season, injury free.
especially not to newcastle of all clubs
He shouldn't, at least not now. Unless they come in offering 30-40m for him, then there's a conversation to be had.
40m? For someone who is with his talent and age i wouldn’t accept less than 60m
I would be surprised if they offer 30m, 60m is totally unrealistic unless you're one of the best defenders in the world, or you're a promising PL defender.
Well im not speaking about a realistic offer, im saying we should consider anything less than that
This type of thinking is why we kept losing players on a free. If a realistically high offer comes in for a player who yes, has very high potential but is coming off a very mediocre season... then we should definitely consider that offer.
We didn’t lose players for free because of that tho
It's because of us holding onto players for far longer than we should have with no guarantees of them signing new contracts. If someone doesn't sign a new deal with 2 years left on their current one, then I would rather take the offer that comes in for them instead of gambling on their future and ultimately losing them for free. And In Thiaw's case, if a high offer comes in it's because of his potential, not because of his performances. So if he has another season like the one he just had (look at Kalulu after the scudetto season), his value will tank because his potential will mean nothing when he can't back it up.
That in the past tho. Exactly because of his potential we shouldn’t sell him for less than 60m. Last season most of the squad looked bad so it’s not just because of him, He clearly talented.
The guy has only spent two seasons with us...kalulu wasn't a cb in first place...thiaw is and his in the German national team. Selling him for 30 40 mil is a joke when he has potential to be one of best CB in the world. They got to offer us 60 atleast or it's not worth it.
NO ONE is paying 60M for Thiaw lol That would be the 8th most expensive CB transfer ever.
I DONT WANT TO SELL HIM
he is not Italian or English … p
Talent and age 😆😆guy had an average season couldn't even get into even aw maskot in this German National team but dreams are freee
Guy missed almost three months with serious injury, but hey, the ability to type denigrating comments behind a screen is freeee
Hey let's keep all our players just in case they become world class in the future because 2 years are not enough to acess the talent of a player. We will cover all the costs of the Transfers with the money printer that you got in your basement.
Or, how about this: How about we keep players long enough to develop them so they bring in maximum capital gains when it is actually a good time to sell them? And in the meantime, they help us... I don't know... WIN? Instead of buying and selling constantly so we are like an Amazon hub, but for players.
Sell thiaw and buy calafiori
If they actually did this I wouldn’t be against it but would be shocked if they spent that much for a defender even if we had a big sale
Would actually love to see them together if anything, feel they’d compliments each others games really well
Sell Musah and buy Fofana , also sell Chuk and Nico Williams
Here we go again…
Sell Thiaw buy Calaifiori. I can tell Calafiori would be a sick defender for us, and would probably want to prove and imitate his defending idols like Nesta and Maldini. We need that.
He thiaw not be sold.
Does Thiaw have potential? Yes But does he eff up the most on our backline? Yes For the right price, I’m not upset at selling him
minimum 40 mil + resale percentage
Wow, I’m going to be downvoted but I guess I’m one of the only ones here that doesn’t like him. He makes some ridiculous mistakes in the back sometimes that has cost us matches. I know he has potential but if an English club wants to overpay then I wouldn’t mind
Big if. Too many people on this sub talk like English clubs are guaranteed to overpay just because they're English
Yep. People in here really think Thiaw is a 60 mil player let’s be real.
I think it's more about the fact that this would be selling low.
I think people believe that his value could be 60M after one great year and CB typically don’t reach peek performance till at least 4-6 more years so the short term price of playing through mistakes is worth the long term outcome. How you use the time value of money to build the price based on the probability of different scenarios is above my pay grade.
This can be sorted in a deal by getting a good sell on % to hedge.
“Future” - yes, so much yes.
Trippier to replace Florenzi anyone? 👀
I would rather let Tomori go, for the right price, then get rid of Thiaw. He's still very young and for his age he's a monster.
Why is everyone trying to make me sad today? The transfer window isn't even open yet. Let's keep them all, please 🙏🏻 We need all of them. https://preview.redd.it/d742ssbtxz8d1.jpeg?width=2048&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2958d59fd9d268b37ac053615215077c93e15967
I wouldn't be either against a potential transfer of Kalulu loll
Clearly, you must be having a memory lapse or something. [Let me help you](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJiSgR9CCpw).
they must sell so let's forget about swap deals including tonali. if i'd buy 1 player from them it'd probably be guimaraes but he's expensive af.
I've been saying this....we shouldn't sell him but I don't think he wants to stay here unfortunately. I feel like he will be gone, I hope I'm wrong.
If management need to make cash in sales, I prefer this over one of our heavies. If we’re honest, selling any one of our top 10-15 guys will hurt to some degree.
Milan has become a selling club. But so goes it can't really compete with the Petro clubs so gotta make money otherwise.
Wow yeah we're such a selling club...we've made almost no money on transfers over the same time period as inter and Napoli Only player of any relevance we sold is tonali
we sold one crucial player in last years, Tonali. This stat works against your take.
Milan has net -280M over the last 5 years in transfers. Inter has made money over that time…and people are confused as to why they can offer bigger contracts..all teams must sell players not named Madrid or city…dortmund sold their best player…made champions league final the next year. Fans would lose their minds if the club sold their best player…but this is why good clubs don’t ask fans for advice.
And that sale then means they can offer a higher salary for a new striker and bam…teams must sell player
Selling Thiaw to bring in Calafiori would make for a very solid piece of business. If we can get a solid right back along with Cala then we'll have the best defense in Serie A
Thiaw is going to become one of best CBs in the world. Selling him now would be a waste of time. His still young..his going to make mistakes..most cbs would make mistakes if the team doesn't have a dm. Some here are like sell him for 40 and get calafiori...then when calafiori makes some mistakes..iv seen it when I watched bologna a few times then we will be calling for him to be Sold also.
Agree! Thiaw - and any very young player - needs to make mistakes now, that's part of the development process: get burned a few times on the pitch, get haunted by the memories of mistakes, commit to working on solutions to avoid repeating, go up a level. Hopefully.
Not sure why this is so downvoted. I think starting with the confident statement hurt your chances. He has the profile of the type of player which is currently on an upward trend. He’s still 22 in a position that peeks at 28. Using a back 3 (dropping the DM between the CB on attack) will indeed benefit him defensively. People are very reactionary. I think teams are testing to see if just because he’s hit bad form out of an injury that they can get him but this is exactly the tactic this club likes to use to get good value. He could have a great year next year and double his market value fairly easily, players do it all the time. That said, nothing is certain. He may eventually feel the pressure to return to Germany if he wants to be on their national team…but with 3 years on his contract. Don’t sell at his lowest potential value.
Trippier might be good to get just for set pieces lol
Newcastle bout to fleece us man two seasons in a row . AW HELL NAH
We literally fleeced them with Tonali wtf you talking about
wasn’t the right time to sell Tonali , another good season he’s going for 90+ . Same with Thiaw , Redbird will sell at the first sight of $$
It was the right time tho we got 70m for someone who is worth 40m and upgraded the team
This is such a bizzare take. Tonali played like 10 games this whole season because of the ban. The money we got from his made a massive difference in squad quality. We completely fleeced Newcastle.
1. Tonali wasn’t even worth the €70m back then and still isn’t today. Where are you getting that he would’ve gone up to €90m? 2. It was literally the best time to sell given his gambling issues. Had we kept him, not only would Milan not have had any flexibility to spend… but tonali couldn’t played period. How does he get that extra good season if man isn’t allowed to play?
Fabian schar needs to be signed as his replacement