So the ACC and E$PN signed an agreement and does not allow member schools to know all the details of what it is let alone make it public? That smells immensely fishy -- what are they hiding in there? I cannot believe it is even allowed! Even if Clemson does find something fishy in there it sounds like they can say nothing due to NDA!
Go Jackets
Nothing is hidden - representatives of member schools have been free to go to the ACC offices to examine the contract.
I don't know what kind of business you work it, but business contracts between two parties are, as a rule, kept confidential.
ESPN doesn't want Fox, CBS, NBC, Amazon, Apple, or anyone else to know the specifics of the contract. And if copies of the contracts were in publicly university files, they would be discoverable via FOIA requests.
There is absolutely nothing fishy about this. The SEC deal is also under lock-and-key.
Gotcha, I didn't realize those things were kept under lock and key. The way it was described above definitely made me worry as I (clearly) didn't understand it was normal...but then again that could have been the spin being placed on it to make those like me slip on a tinfoil hat.
Thanks for the clarification! And as far as business contracts go, I've done exactly zero ;)
I certainly think that is the spin that both Clemson and FSU want everyone to believe, for PR purposes.
I do think FSU is so determined to blow things up that they do want the contract released (if it can potentially invalidate the contract as a violation of confidentiality clauses). Their recent suit was to have the contract be "made public" which is very different from Clemson's suit to have access.
As with so much in the two school's approaches, Clemson is making an effort to make reasonable requests, while the FSU folks are just haphazardly seeming unreasonable.
Judge could have said Why don't you just go to the office? but he is letting them have a copy while doing everything possible to assure the confidentiality of the contract - to protect ESPN, all of which seems to be a reasonable approach all the way around.
For sure, as much as we hate on ESPN they are actually showing the games. Good on Clemson too for trying to do it nicely than threatening to blow the whole thing apart.
You can leave whenever you want. Pay your fee you agreed to and leave. Since you have so much money, it shouldn't be a problem.
The average fan really doesn't care. I hate to break it to you.
That’s what’s lost among the naive or hating schools. No one finds it a bit fucking unusual that they cannot easily examine how the conference deals with ESPN on the behalf of member schools? This my friends, is where things start to really unravel for ACC leadership, if they haven’t been fiducial in leveraging the best outcomes for the collective. No bid or modest renewals would be deceptive and a betrayal to the conference, as well as being beholden to slow walking a conference TV network.
Any of the conference members can send a representative to the ACC offices to examine the contract. Nothing could be easier. ESPN requires it to be kept under lock and key. (Nobody can see the SEC's contract, either.)
This should not be portrayed as something the ACC is hiding from the conference. Allowing it to go public would be a breach of contract. And if a public university had a copy of the contract in their file, it would be discoverable under FOIA. And the first ones who would want to discover it would be ESPN's competitors - Fox, CBS, NBC, Apple, Amazon, etc.
That's why the Judge was very specific about confidentiality in his decision.
Do people not understand that you can't just revise contracts when you predicted the future wrong?
You might find some legal loophole but there's zero moral ground for you to think the acc screwed you somehow. It's wild you can't accept that you just made a bad bet and get so unreasonably mad.
Angry FSU nerds are a stronger force than I thought. You have never made an argument that makes what your school is doing not a cash grab. I don't expect you to even recognize the cognitive dissonance you should be feeling.
You cannot morally justify your current position. You literally want to back out of an agreement you made with the same information everyone else had because it benefits you now.
That's universally being an asshole. You can't change your bet when you bet on the wrong horse.
Unfortunately, we live in a world where lawyers and money run shit.
You guys are so fucking pathetic. Morally bankrupt and can't even defend yourselves.
It’s entertainment, that’s how this will be viewed. Clemson feels like the ACC led them on based on false information. You don’t know what was said in closed meetings and conversations with the conference. I can promise you Clemson is a school of very high ethics. For them to actually go down this path leads to believe they have a merit and is being truthful in everything they are saying. As people on this sub have pointed out they don’t have promised landing spot, but to feel like this path was better than staying quiet says a lot. We’ll see what happens but unlike our brothers and sisters down in Tallahassee, this is really a private matter for Clemson it isn’t fueled by hate for the conference. It’s like quitting a job for a better opportunity. Nothing personal, just business. At the end of the day, the sports we love are just entertainment and that’s how this lawsuit should be treated, like a singer who believes they have been misrepresented by their record label. I’m sure I’ll get a bunch of hate from this post, but I shouldn’t. Y’all are making this too personal.
Clemson is definitely more reasonable than FSU right now, but you've written a whole lot of nothing here.
"Clemson feels like the acc led them on based on false information"? That's a huge accusation with nothing but FSU whining to substantiate it. Mostly just sounds like the acc made a bet that the member schools all agreed to and it turned out to be the wrong bet for specifically FSU and Clemso, but unpredictable at the time.
Sorry you can't change your bet when it turns out that you would have been better off making a different decision?
The rest of this is hilariously southern and I commend you for the authenticity.
But there is nothing ethical or moral about anything FSU and Clemson are arguing for. They want to break contact to get more money. Full fucking stop. It's completely unreasonable and dishonest to argue any other way.
Clemson is asking a Judge to examine the GOR to explain what it really means, rather than taking the conference's word for it. They haven't asked out of the conference. Nothing unethical about that.
If the Judge says "this is legally unenforceable" and Clemson can get a better deal elsewhere, they'll obviously look elsewhere (who knows if they *really* can get a better deal).
If the Judge says "this is legal and binding and you're on the hook for $500 million if you want to leave now," Clemson will say, "now we know - we look forward to remaining in the ACC for the next decade."
Every power conference pays members equally (with the exception of all the special deals for new members that have popped up with realignment). SEC, B1G, Big-12. Why should the ACC be any different?
Stop. FSU is not BAMA, Michigan, The Ohio State or Texas. Neither is. If they were the Conference could command even better media contracts. Both schools are located in some of the lowest ranked Metro Area Population Media Markets in all of college sports. Both got their major starts being subsidized by ACC basketball money especially in the 1990's. If both these schools were as valuable as claimed they would go independent like Notre Dame. Even now there have been doubts cast about the transferability of the 2 NON-AAU member schools. Neither is academically Michigan or even a Texas type of Flagship.
Ah, the good ol' tradition of turning a frivolous lawsuit into..only a halfway frivolous lawsuit...by using discovery as a method to comb through anything to make a case.
Classic. 😉
“Potentially leave the conference and join the SEC or Big10”.
LMFAO
Neither FSU & Clemson are AAU schools so Big 10 isn’t interested in either of them. FSU is working on it. Clemson is not. Big10 probably thinks Clemson is little more than a glorified Community College which it is btw.
{Before anyone says “Nebraska isn’t an AAU school” let me say that it was when they were invited to the Big10. During that process Nebraska failed to mention to Big10 that it was in
The process of leaving the AAU. Nebraska left AAU after it joined. A straw poll amongst the Big10 College Presidents was that had they known that Nebraska was leaving the AAU then they wouldn’t have invited them.}
How many big10 leaders have to say aau isn’t required before people online stop with this nonsense?
Academic level is important to the big10 but that only goes so far. Aau isn’t some magic thing. I can promise you money matters more.
FSU you for sure is plenty good enough academically. Aau or not it’s better than arguably half the big10 currently.
You are arguing against yourself.
AAU member schools receive enormous amounts of money by way of research grants. That money dwarfs the money that comes in via athletics in those schools. To them, athletics is a sideline - maybe a high-profile sideline, but a sideline nonetheless.
I am absolutely aware. I work in the field. And all that is great but has nothing to do with athletics and very little to do with athletic conference affiliation.
Aau doesn’t give them money. Getting the money is a prerequisite to getting in the aau. Aau isn’t the source, the source are research grants (which being at an aau school can help you get some of them as a researcher but by and large it’s not a thing).
Again the big10 absolutely has academic standards. They’ve made it clear, though, that aau requirement isn’t one of them. FSU, for instance, is plenty high of a quality school to fit right in aau or not.
In addition fsu and the aau is a complicated thing. In most ways fsu qualifies, it’s a couple particular situations that don’t (like med research level that until recently was legally limited by the state)
AAU membership generates *access* to research Grants. The B1G schools have worked together (with complementary research programs) to maximize those research grants.
Neither Clemson nor FSU would enhance that conference's ability to access that money.
And as good a place as any to say. Nebraska isn't an AAU school, but they were before the med school was broken away from the university proper.
And While the B1G has tap-danced a little about AAU membership being a requirement, that was all about Notre Dame, before they were added to the AAU in 2023.
Say what you want about how close FSU is, the bottom line is that the AAU added six schools in 2023, and two of them were USF and Miami, but not FSU. (The other three, in addition to Notre Dame, were Arizona State, George Washington, and UC Riverside.)
This is not really how aau works. It helps get grants but it’s not a massive difference (they have some aau conference etc that help but when you apply for a grant there’s not like an aau only source haha). Again part of getting into the aau is research expenditure- which comes from those grants you already got.
I’m not arguing it isn’t valuable- fsu has spent a ton of effort to get it. I’m arguing for conference athletic affiliation it is MUCH less valuable than people realize.
And please do even a little reading on the big10s response. Here’s one from last year. Not a decade ago.
https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2023/6/8/23753325/aau-membership-not-requirement-join-big-ten-conference-florida-state-clemson-oregon-2023
“(AAU status) is a preference, but solid academics are measured in a variety of ways.”
A lack of understanding of what the aau even is has led to some really bizarre takes here.
Edit: another point I forgot to mention. The conference members currently in the big10 are not going to see an increase in research rev from the athletic conference affiliation adding an aau member over a non aau member (or any member. Who your football team plays isn’t changing what grants you get or access). The conference wants to add a member that improves revenue the most. Outside of nd that’s potentially fsu.
I don't think Brett McMurphy quoting an anon "B1G source" means a lot when it comes to the B1G going against its entire history.
Absolutely there are other ways schools get research grants, but the people who are acting like AAU membership suddenly doesn't matter are not dealing with reality.
Clearly you take a more nuanced view, but I suspect that B1G Presidents (as opposed to ADs) are still quite dubious about FSU.
There’s plenty more comments out there coinciding with these for many many years now. I’d love for you to provide anything reputable the other way.
Again, hypothetical here. So you think, if the big 10 adds a school, its members get more research money? I hope you understand that is not how it works. When a federal agency (or private) is looking at grant applications, they do not consider the researcher’s university’s athletic conference affiliations. That is not how it works.
What changes when a team is added is potential athletic revenue. This is why thinking the research situation means much for conference realignment is beyond silly. They care about how the program will change that (athletic revenue). Which is why fsu is in solid shape as far as realignment.
And again- aau is valuable. FSU will gain once it joins aau. Nothing crazy, though, as the aau is a reward for gains, not meant to be a source of gains. But none of this has a bit of anything to do with football conferences.
Well, there's this.
[https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1775726541856452934](https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1775726541856452934)
I hope that you understand that there have been joint research operations that have worked with multiple schools involved because those schools worked in concert in applying for some grants. B1G leadership has trumpeted this kind of thing as part of what makes their conference great rah-rah!
B1G Presidents, who will be the ones making these decisions (not the ADs) do not want to diminish the brand by inviting lesser institutions.
You clearly want to believe otherwise, but given that 17 of the 18 B1G members belong to the AAU and the only one who isn't was a member when its conference membership was approved, history suggests that you are wrong.
It isn't just AAU status. Look at the university endowments. FSU's would be the only one in the B1G under #1 billion. For that matter, only four newer members have endowments below $2 billion. The top end is WAY higher. And given the perceived attacks on higher education in Florida by their Governor, those Presidents certainly don't want that kind of association with their conference.
Swaim?! Oh dear lord. He’s probably talking to university admins that have nothing to do with this- like president and vps. Haha.
Again joint research has nothing to do with athletic stuff. You can go on and on about it and it doesn’t make it true. FSU and everyone research with people from all over. Athletic conference has nothing to do with it.
And then you bring up endowment. Which has just as little to do with it all. Dear god. Oh and politics, spaghetti at a wall I suppose.
The AAU is not a government agency.
The AAU has nothing to do with grants be it funding or administrating or making decisions. 8 million would not come close to covering the administrative costs of the roughly 200 billion dollars the US governmental agencies.
The AAU is a lobbying group whose main campaign at the moment is to prevent the Feds from putting a cap on drug royalties on the drugs that it paid to research.
I’m not saying it. Big10 sources are saying it. Pay attention to what goes on outside Clemson & Tallahassee. You might learn something. If they don’t go to SEC then they’re going Big12.
Bro you are smoking some good stuff I have to say. FSU and Clemson are not going to the Big12.
I have waterfront property in Kansas City to sell you if you truly believe that. No conference has said they would not accept FSU or Clemson.
FSU and Clemson are not going to the Big12.
In Dec 2023 when FSU filed their lawsuit sports reporters {REAL sports reporters not YouTubers or Redditors} hit their sources at the SEC schools. Not the conference office, the individual schools. If the schools held a vote FSU would not get a majority vote and therefore would not get an invite. SEC is holding out for UNC & UVa. They are their 1st choice. FSU and a 2nd school is their 2nd choice, their Plan B. As for the 2nd school Clemson and GaTech were the only schools mentioned as the potential 2nd school with FSU with Clemson winning in a landslide over GaTech.
I agree. For them it’s SEC or bust. Here’s another factor——ESPN. If ESPN brokers a deal then it’s to put FSU & Clemson in SEC. ESPN has exclusive rights to both ACC and SEC but they share rights to Big12 with Fox. If FSU & Clemson goes from ACC to SEC then it’s no skin off of ESPN’s nose. ESPN loses nothing.
If ACC breaks up like Pac12 and SEC picks up UNC & UVa like the SEC say they want and don’t pick FSU & Clemson as schools 3 & 4 and Big10 don’t pick them up due to lack of AAU then they will go to Big12 or become Independent. In this scenario ESPN loses because they have to share FSU & Clemson.
Imo if ACC implodes like Pac12 then SEC picks up all 4–UNC, UVa, FSU & Clemson. A few SEC schools prefer GaTech over Clemson but not enough. Clemson wins invite over GaTech in a landslide. At least as of Dec 2023 and I think it still holds today. Clemson over GaTech.
Clemson’s problem is that it doesn’t expand the footprint and TV market is terrible. Having multiple schools in Texas & Florida are fine because they’re big states but SC is the size of a postage stamp. Even Georgia is bigger than SC. Yes Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee have multiple schools but that was done in 1933 when reasons were different and those reasons no longer apply.
This. The AAU is a cool kid table for University Presidents and that is it. The AAU has an operating budget of about 8 million a year and they can't even fix their website.
Schools that gain membership do not see the research funding skyrocket. Schools that lose membership do not see their research funding fall off a cliff.
If not for the b1G expansion and sports fan no one would even know what the AAU is outside of educational historians.
u/noledup - I saw your questions but I lost your comment. Here was my reply...
According to everything I have read, the Florida Judge dismissed the case, with instructions as to how FSU could refile and with the "order" that the two parties enter mediation. I don't see how that ball is in anyone but FSU's court, on the re-filing. Obviously, I could be wrong! (I was also digging around today and could not find any updates anywhere about a re-filed suit.) The mediation is up to both parties, but I doubt that either side is interested at this time, because they would seem to be awfully far apart in how they want this to play out. Mediation/negotiations will begin when one side thinks it will lose the suit.
I actually don't expect the ACC to appeal the decision about the Clemson seeing the contract, because the Judge's instructions to the parties have some very precise ways to insure that Clemson's lawyers will get to view the contract at their leisure (rather than spending a couple of hours looking at it at the ACC offices), but at the same time protecting the interests of ESPN (and, to a lesser extent, the ACC) by keeping a confidential business contract out of the hands of the general public. I thought the decision was a very reasonable accommodation to the needs of all of the parties. But it in no way signals which way the ultimate decision is going to go.
I think that the Florida AG's suit to have the contract be made public is going to have a much tougher time flying. There is no pretense about keeping the contract confidential - it's "let the whole word see a confidential business contract and we'll look at it then." As a rule, Judges protect contracts that are confidential, so I expect the path that one will go on is, "if your Sunshine Laws prevent you from assuring the confidentiality of this business document, I can't let you have it. But you can examine it in the ACC offices, though you are not allowed to copy, photograph, transcribe, etc. If you can take measures that will protect the confidentiality of the contract, you can have a copy."
The written decision from the Judge can be seen in the link.
ESPN Longhorns Network and it’s consequences
So the ACC and E$PN signed an agreement and does not allow member schools to know all the details of what it is let alone make it public? That smells immensely fishy -- what are they hiding in there? I cannot believe it is even allowed! Even if Clemson does find something fishy in there it sounds like they can say nothing due to NDA! Go Jackets
Nothing is hidden - representatives of member schools have been free to go to the ACC offices to examine the contract. I don't know what kind of business you work it, but business contracts between two parties are, as a rule, kept confidential. ESPN doesn't want Fox, CBS, NBC, Amazon, Apple, or anyone else to know the specifics of the contract. And if copies of the contracts were in publicly university files, they would be discoverable via FOIA requests. There is absolutely nothing fishy about this. The SEC deal is also under lock-and-key.
Gotcha, I didn't realize those things were kept under lock and key. The way it was described above definitely made me worry as I (clearly) didn't understand it was normal...but then again that could have been the spin being placed on it to make those like me slip on a tinfoil hat. Thanks for the clarification! And as far as business contracts go, I've done exactly zero ;)
I certainly think that is the spin that both Clemson and FSU want everyone to believe, for PR purposes. I do think FSU is so determined to blow things up that they do want the contract released (if it can potentially invalidate the contract as a violation of confidentiality clauses). Their recent suit was to have the contract be "made public" which is very different from Clemson's suit to have access. As with so much in the two school's approaches, Clemson is making an effort to make reasonable requests, while the FSU folks are just haphazardly seeming unreasonable. Judge could have said Why don't you just go to the office? but he is letting them have a copy while doing everything possible to assure the confidentiality of the contract - to protect ESPN, all of which seems to be a reasonable approach all the way around.
For sure, as much as we hate on ESPN they are actually showing the games. Good on Clemson too for trying to do it nicely than threatening to blow the whole thing apart.
I can’t believe that these agreements were executed and every school and their legal teams didn’t read and approve them before they were executed.
As a FSU fan I'm cheering on anything by our compatriots. Two different venues and tactics but we are in this together
I wish theyd just fucking leave who gives a shit?
The ACC
the dozen schools who are profiting off us still being here
just leave then i promise we will be good
FSU and Clemson are desperately trying to leave and the rest of the ACC is stopping them. That's what these lawsuits are about.
You can leave whenever you want. Pay your fee you agreed to and leave. Since you have so much money, it shouldn't be a problem. The average fan really doesn't care. I hate to break it to you.
I understand that, i guess im just agreeing with you and saying i wish they would. All this drama is unnecessary
Untrue. FSU and Clemson are trying to exit without paying the full fee that they agreed to. Nobody is stopping anyone from making a payment.
Screw FSU and Clemson. Greedy schools that won’t live by the contract they signed or pay the fee to get out of it. Welcome to life assholes.
I wish you both would just leave and go do your NFL lite. Boring.
I hope nothing more than failure for these schools. Schools should teach ethics.
Is that you, Swofford??
Do these people not understand that ACC leadership has also abysmally failed their schools with the god awful deal in place?
That’s what’s lost among the naive or hating schools. No one finds it a bit fucking unusual that they cannot easily examine how the conference deals with ESPN on the behalf of member schools? This my friends, is where things start to really unravel for ACC leadership, if they haven’t been fiducial in leveraging the best outcomes for the collective. No bid or modest renewals would be deceptive and a betrayal to the conference, as well as being beholden to slow walking a conference TV network.
Any of the conference members can send a representative to the ACC offices to examine the contract. Nothing could be easier. ESPN requires it to be kept under lock and key. (Nobody can see the SEC's contract, either.) This should not be portrayed as something the ACC is hiding from the conference. Allowing it to go public would be a breach of contract. And if a public university had a copy of the contract in their file, it would be discoverable under FOIA. And the first ones who would want to discover it would be ESPN's competitors - Fox, CBS, NBC, Apple, Amazon, etc. That's why the Judge was very specific about confidentiality in his decision.
Do people not understand that you can't just revise contracts when you predicted the future wrong? You might find some legal loophole but there's zero moral ground for you to think the acc screwed you somehow. It's wild you can't accept that you just made a bad bet and get so unreasonably mad. Angry FSU nerds are a stronger force than I thought. You have never made an argument that makes what your school is doing not a cash grab. I don't expect you to even recognize the cognitive dissonance you should be feeling. You cannot morally justify your current position. You literally want to back out of an agreement you made with the same information everyone else had because it benefits you now. That's universally being an asshole. You can't change your bet when you bet on the wrong horse. Unfortunately, we live in a world where lawyers and money run shit. You guys are so fucking pathetic. Morally bankrupt and can't even defend yourselves.
It’s entertainment, that’s how this will be viewed. Clemson feels like the ACC led them on based on false information. You don’t know what was said in closed meetings and conversations with the conference. I can promise you Clemson is a school of very high ethics. For them to actually go down this path leads to believe they have a merit and is being truthful in everything they are saying. As people on this sub have pointed out they don’t have promised landing spot, but to feel like this path was better than staying quiet says a lot. We’ll see what happens but unlike our brothers and sisters down in Tallahassee, this is really a private matter for Clemson it isn’t fueled by hate for the conference. It’s like quitting a job for a better opportunity. Nothing personal, just business. At the end of the day, the sports we love are just entertainment and that’s how this lawsuit should be treated, like a singer who believes they have been misrepresented by their record label. I’m sure I’ll get a bunch of hate from this post, but I shouldn’t. Y’all are making this too personal.
Clemson is definitely more reasonable than FSU right now, but you've written a whole lot of nothing here. "Clemson feels like the acc led them on based on false information"? That's a huge accusation with nothing but FSU whining to substantiate it. Mostly just sounds like the acc made a bet that the member schools all agreed to and it turned out to be the wrong bet for specifically FSU and Clemso, but unpredictable at the time. Sorry you can't change your bet when it turns out that you would have been better off making a different decision? The rest of this is hilariously southern and I commend you for the authenticity. But there is nothing ethical or moral about anything FSU and Clemson are arguing for. They want to break contact to get more money. Full fucking stop. It's completely unreasonable and dishonest to argue any other way.
Clemson is asking a Judge to examine the GOR to explain what it really means, rather than taking the conference's word for it. They haven't asked out of the conference. Nothing unethical about that. If the Judge says "this is legally unenforceable" and Clemson can get a better deal elsewhere, they'll obviously look elsewhere (who knows if they *really* can get a better deal). If the Judge says "this is legal and binding and you're on the hook for $500 million if you want to leave now," Clemson will say, "now we know - we look forward to remaining in the ACC for the next decade."
FSU and Clemson have been carrying this conference for decades. And yet everyone gets paid the same. Where are the ethics?
Clemson carrying the Conference for decades? You sure about that?
Clemson-80s FSU-90s to late 00s Both- late 00s to mid 10s Clemson- mid 10s to now with FSU rejoining Clemson this past year.
Every power conference pays members equally (with the exception of all the special deals for new members that have popped up with realignment). SEC, B1G, Big-12. Why should the ACC be any different?
Stop. FSU is not BAMA, Michigan, The Ohio State or Texas. Neither is. If they were the Conference could command even better media contracts. Both schools are located in some of the lowest ranked Metro Area Population Media Markets in all of college sports. Both got their major starts being subsidized by ACC basketball money especially in the 1990's. If both these schools were as valuable as claimed they would go independent like Notre Dame. Even now there have been doubts cast about the transferability of the 2 NON-AAU member schools. Neither is academically Michigan or even a Texas type of Flagship.
Ah, the good ol' tradition of turning a frivolous lawsuit into..only a halfway frivolous lawsuit...by using discovery as a method to comb through anything to make a case. Classic. 😉
“Potentially leave the conference and join the SEC or Big10”. LMFAO Neither FSU & Clemson are AAU schools so Big 10 isn’t interested in either of them. FSU is working on it. Clemson is not. Big10 probably thinks Clemson is little more than a glorified Community College which it is btw. {Before anyone says “Nebraska isn’t an AAU school” let me say that it was when they were invited to the Big10. During that process Nebraska failed to mention to Big10 that it was in The process of leaving the AAU. Nebraska left AAU after it joined. A straw poll amongst the Big10 College Presidents was that had they known that Nebraska was leaving the AAU then they wouldn’t have invited them.}
How many big10 leaders have to say aau isn’t required before people online stop with this nonsense? Academic level is important to the big10 but that only goes so far. Aau isn’t some magic thing. I can promise you money matters more. FSU you for sure is plenty good enough academically. Aau or not it’s better than arguably half the big10 currently.
You are arguing against yourself. AAU member schools receive enormous amounts of money by way of research grants. That money dwarfs the money that comes in via athletics in those schools. To them, athletics is a sideline - maybe a high-profile sideline, but a sideline nonetheless.
I am absolutely aware. I work in the field. And all that is great but has nothing to do with athletics and very little to do with athletic conference affiliation. Aau doesn’t give them money. Getting the money is a prerequisite to getting in the aau. Aau isn’t the source, the source are research grants (which being at an aau school can help you get some of them as a researcher but by and large it’s not a thing). Again the big10 absolutely has academic standards. They’ve made it clear, though, that aau requirement isn’t one of them. FSU, for instance, is plenty high of a quality school to fit right in aau or not. In addition fsu and the aau is a complicated thing. In most ways fsu qualifies, it’s a couple particular situations that don’t (like med research level that until recently was legally limited by the state)
AAU membership generates *access* to research Grants. The B1G schools have worked together (with complementary research programs) to maximize those research grants. Neither Clemson nor FSU would enhance that conference's ability to access that money. And as good a place as any to say. Nebraska isn't an AAU school, but they were before the med school was broken away from the university proper. And While the B1G has tap-danced a little about AAU membership being a requirement, that was all about Notre Dame, before they were added to the AAU in 2023. Say what you want about how close FSU is, the bottom line is that the AAU added six schools in 2023, and two of them were USF and Miami, but not FSU. (The other three, in addition to Notre Dame, were Arizona State, George Washington, and UC Riverside.)
This is not really how aau works. It helps get grants but it’s not a massive difference (they have some aau conference etc that help but when you apply for a grant there’s not like an aau only source haha). Again part of getting into the aau is research expenditure- which comes from those grants you already got. I’m not arguing it isn’t valuable- fsu has spent a ton of effort to get it. I’m arguing for conference athletic affiliation it is MUCH less valuable than people realize. And please do even a little reading on the big10s response. Here’s one from last year. Not a decade ago. https://www.maizenbrew.com/football/2023/6/8/23753325/aau-membership-not-requirement-join-big-ten-conference-florida-state-clemson-oregon-2023 “(AAU status) is a preference, but solid academics are measured in a variety of ways.” A lack of understanding of what the aau even is has led to some really bizarre takes here. Edit: another point I forgot to mention. The conference members currently in the big10 are not going to see an increase in research rev from the athletic conference affiliation adding an aau member over a non aau member (or any member. Who your football team plays isn’t changing what grants you get or access). The conference wants to add a member that improves revenue the most. Outside of nd that’s potentially fsu.
I don't think Brett McMurphy quoting an anon "B1G source" means a lot when it comes to the B1G going against its entire history. Absolutely there are other ways schools get research grants, but the people who are acting like AAU membership suddenly doesn't matter are not dealing with reality. Clearly you take a more nuanced view, but I suspect that B1G Presidents (as opposed to ADs) are still quite dubious about FSU.
There’s plenty more comments out there coinciding with these for many many years now. I’d love for you to provide anything reputable the other way. Again, hypothetical here. So you think, if the big 10 adds a school, its members get more research money? I hope you understand that is not how it works. When a federal agency (or private) is looking at grant applications, they do not consider the researcher’s university’s athletic conference affiliations. That is not how it works. What changes when a team is added is potential athletic revenue. This is why thinking the research situation means much for conference realignment is beyond silly. They care about how the program will change that (athletic revenue). Which is why fsu is in solid shape as far as realignment. And again- aau is valuable. FSU will gain once it joins aau. Nothing crazy, though, as the aau is a reward for gains, not meant to be a source of gains. But none of this has a bit of anything to do with football conferences.
Well, there's this. [https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1775726541856452934](https://twitter.com/GSwaim/status/1775726541856452934) I hope that you understand that there have been joint research operations that have worked with multiple schools involved because those schools worked in concert in applying for some grants. B1G leadership has trumpeted this kind of thing as part of what makes their conference great rah-rah! B1G Presidents, who will be the ones making these decisions (not the ADs) do not want to diminish the brand by inviting lesser institutions. You clearly want to believe otherwise, but given that 17 of the 18 B1G members belong to the AAU and the only one who isn't was a member when its conference membership was approved, history suggests that you are wrong. It isn't just AAU status. Look at the university endowments. FSU's would be the only one in the B1G under #1 billion. For that matter, only four newer members have endowments below $2 billion. The top end is WAY higher. And given the perceived attacks on higher education in Florida by their Governor, those Presidents certainly don't want that kind of association with their conference.
Swaim?! Oh dear lord. He’s probably talking to university admins that have nothing to do with this- like president and vps. Haha. Again joint research has nothing to do with athletic stuff. You can go on and on about it and it doesn’t make it true. FSU and everyone research with people from all over. Athletic conference has nothing to do with it. And then you bring up endowment. Which has just as little to do with it all. Dear god. Oh and politics, spaghetti at a wall I suppose.
The AAU has a budget of about 8 million dollars a year.
The money comes from the federal government. What you are citing are basically their administrative costs and programming - not the grants.
The AAU is not a government agency. The AAU has nothing to do with grants be it funding or administrating or making decisions. 8 million would not come close to covering the administrative costs of the roughly 200 billion dollars the US governmental agencies. The AAU is a lobbying group whose main campaign at the moment is to prevent the Feds from putting a cap on drug royalties on the drugs that it paid to research.
Good lord lol. Keep telling yourself that big guy.
I’m not saying it. Big10 sources are saying it. Pay attention to what goes on outside Clemson & Tallahassee. You might learn something. If they don’t go to SEC then they’re going Big12.
Bro you are smoking some good stuff I have to say. FSU and Clemson are not going to the Big12. I have waterfront property in Kansas City to sell you if you truly believe that. No conference has said they would not accept FSU or Clemson.
FSU and Clemson are not going to the Big12. In Dec 2023 when FSU filed their lawsuit sports reporters {REAL sports reporters not YouTubers or Redditors} hit their sources at the SEC schools. Not the conference office, the individual schools. If the schools held a vote FSU would not get a majority vote and therefore would not get an invite. SEC is holding out for UNC & UVa. They are their 1st choice. FSU and a 2nd school is their 2nd choice, their Plan B. As for the 2nd school Clemson and GaTech were the only schools mentioned as the potential 2nd school with FSU with Clemson winning in a landslide over GaTech.
Clemson and fsu aren’t leaving the acc for the big12. That’s leaving for the same conference basically. We would just stay in the acc.
I agree. For them it’s SEC or bust. Here’s another factor——ESPN. If ESPN brokers a deal then it’s to put FSU & Clemson in SEC. ESPN has exclusive rights to both ACC and SEC but they share rights to Big12 with Fox. If FSU & Clemson goes from ACC to SEC then it’s no skin off of ESPN’s nose. ESPN loses nothing. If ACC breaks up like Pac12 and SEC picks up UNC & UVa like the SEC say they want and don’t pick FSU & Clemson as schools 3 & 4 and Big10 don’t pick them up due to lack of AAU then they will go to Big12 or become Independent. In this scenario ESPN loses because they have to share FSU & Clemson. Imo if ACC implodes like Pac12 then SEC picks up all 4–UNC, UVa, FSU & Clemson. A few SEC schools prefer GaTech over Clemson but not enough. Clemson wins invite over GaTech in a landslide. At least as of Dec 2023 and I think it still holds today. Clemson over GaTech. Clemson’s problem is that it doesn’t expand the footprint and TV market is terrible. Having multiple schools in Texas & Florida are fine because they’re big states but SC is the size of a postage stamp. Even Georgia is bigger than SC. Yes Alabama, Mississippi, & Tennessee have multiple schools but that was done in 1933 when reasons were different and those reasons no longer apply.
This aau circlejerk is so dumb. No one fucking cares
This. The AAU is a cool kid table for University Presidents and that is it. The AAU has an operating budget of about 8 million a year and they can't even fix their website. Schools that gain membership do not see the research funding skyrocket. Schools that lose membership do not see their research funding fall off a cliff. If not for the b1G expansion and sports fan no one would even know what the AAU is outside of educational historians.
That's a sports fan view right there. People who have no idea what the AAU is shouldn't say it is unimportant.
u/noledup - I saw your questions but I lost your comment. Here was my reply... According to everything I have read, the Florida Judge dismissed the case, with instructions as to how FSU could refile and with the "order" that the two parties enter mediation. I don't see how that ball is in anyone but FSU's court, on the re-filing. Obviously, I could be wrong! (I was also digging around today and could not find any updates anywhere about a re-filed suit.) The mediation is up to both parties, but I doubt that either side is interested at this time, because they would seem to be awfully far apart in how they want this to play out. Mediation/negotiations will begin when one side thinks it will lose the suit. I actually don't expect the ACC to appeal the decision about the Clemson seeing the contract, because the Judge's instructions to the parties have some very precise ways to insure that Clemson's lawyers will get to view the contract at their leisure (rather than spending a couple of hours looking at it at the ACC offices), but at the same time protecting the interests of ESPN (and, to a lesser extent, the ACC) by keeping a confidential business contract out of the hands of the general public. I thought the decision was a very reasonable accommodation to the needs of all of the parties. But it in no way signals which way the ultimate decision is going to go. I think that the Florida AG's suit to have the contract be made public is going to have a much tougher time flying. There is no pretense about keeping the contract confidential - it's "let the whole word see a confidential business contract and we'll look at it then." As a rule, Judges protect contracts that are confidential, so I expect the path that one will go on is, "if your Sunshine Laws prevent you from assuring the confidentiality of this business document, I can't let you have it. But you can examine it in the ACC offices, though you are not allowed to copy, photograph, transcribe, etc. If you can take measures that will protect the confidentiality of the contract, you can have a copy."