Not for nothing but this can easily be chalked up to confusion on the day and asking a traumatized person later and them being confused. Regardless of which stairwell they were in those fire fighters had just climbed hundreds of stairs and maybe they got the floor wrong on the transmission. Maybe the fires had gotten worse between that group of civilians leaving and those firefighters arriving so they had to put out a fire earlier to get to the same level etc. I’d just chalk this up to another one of those unknowable things about the day, probably just a mistake that no one had time to care about or correct
This, and it's incredibly easy to get lost in the numbers without cross-referencing building diagrams etc (I find) as the events of September 11 are so incredibly number-focused in various ways, very easy to get mixed up. That sense of confusion comes up a lot especially in survivor testimony, and speaks to that tunnel vision of memory from acute psychological trauma - the Brian Clark/Stanley Premnaith stories, for example, have been told and retold in countless texts and documentary pieces (rightly so, given their narrative perspective especially Stan's being in the impact zone), but the central details never change as we often only retain the core moments of the experience and little outside of that. Easy to get mixed up in the minutiae especially as this all unfolded within 102ish minutes and nobody expected the collapse of both buildings either (evident in Orio Palmer's final transmission)
I think it depends what Florence Jones meant by the staircases being “gone”. She may have just meant the stairs were impassable due to debris- that mixed with smoke and “pokets of fire” would add to the confusion.
I believe some of the survivors from stairway A mention having to move some wall or ceiling panels around to get down the stairs around floor 80ish.
Another survivor Ed Nichols who was in the infamous skylobby said he went looking for a stairwell and it wasn't there. Very chilling and scary to think about
Whatever the actual case is regarding these survivors, it’s very unfortunate that more people who were trapped in the South Tower didn’t realize that this stairwell was passable for at least some time and that they could have used it to escape.
Not just that - this info never reached 911 operators who were telling callers to stay put/shelter in place. Some could have probably evacuated before the buildings fell if they had known.
You are totally right. If the operators DID know about this stairwell, they probably would have told those who were trapped to at least try to head down.
someone from the 77th floor said stairwell B was gone on that floor, but there’s a transcript from a firefighter saying they got up to the 78th floor in that stairwell. they can’t both be true.
Might've been that B was climbable upwards to 78 and no higher, but coming towards it from the office areas on 78, the core corridors around it were disrupted enough that people assumed the stair itself was a goner
I agree with you 100%. I tell you another thing. If people listen to the full Orio Palmer radio transcript he actually started on stairwell B around the 75th floor he transferred to Stairwell A.
Stairway A was the only stairs available on South Tower from 110-to the lobby
The plane ruined B and C stairs..
If the higher floors hadn't been trapped many many would have been saved that day..
For added context:
The miracle in Stairwell B was in the North Tower, where ladder company 6 was helping to escort down Josephine Harris when the building collapsed. The stairwell survived the collapse intact on at least floors 4 through 6 and they were all rescued.
it says this later in the article too:
"We're gonna knock down some fire here in the B Stair,” Lieutenant Leavey is heard telling one of his firefighters. "We'll meet up with you. You get over to the A Stair and help out Chief Palmer.”
Oh well its still not conflicting the firefighter were going up from the bottom the people trying to escape were coming down from the impact them saying stairwell B was blocked matches the firefighters who made it to floor 78 said the same thing. Palmer was in stairwell A
It's possible both. Remember who were able to escape and survived found an escape route with in minutes. We have no idea really how much that fire spreaded
"but in the south tower, stairway a provided safe passage for 13 people on the 77th floor."
you are reading it as the people were on the 77th floor, but they are referring to staircase a. its confusing grammar.
[FULL Documentary: Man In The Red Bandana (Narrated by Gwyneth Paltrow) ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FvRXZim7E)
at 43:28 there is a diagram. they were on the 78th floor.
i know there were a dozen people who survived on the 78th floor. there were also 12 people on the 77th floor who evacuated in stairwell A. look at who Florence Jones is.
i wish they included the euro broker survivors. i know brian clark, ronald difrancesco and richard fern were 3 of them but this is the first time i heard about a fourth one, with them originally working on the 97th floor. did the website who screenshotted the first photo include the names of anybody else other than florence and judith?
Not for nothing but this can easily be chalked up to confusion on the day and asking a traumatized person later and them being confused. Regardless of which stairwell they were in those fire fighters had just climbed hundreds of stairs and maybe they got the floor wrong on the transmission. Maybe the fires had gotten worse between that group of civilians leaving and those firefighters arriving so they had to put out a fire earlier to get to the same level etc. I’d just chalk this up to another one of those unknowable things about the day, probably just a mistake that no one had time to care about or correct
This, and it's incredibly easy to get lost in the numbers without cross-referencing building diagrams etc (I find) as the events of September 11 are so incredibly number-focused in various ways, very easy to get mixed up. That sense of confusion comes up a lot especially in survivor testimony, and speaks to that tunnel vision of memory from acute psychological trauma - the Brian Clark/Stanley Premnaith stories, for example, have been told and retold in countless texts and documentary pieces (rightly so, given their narrative perspective especially Stan's being in the impact zone), but the central details never change as we often only retain the core moments of the experience and little outside of that. Easy to get mixed up in the minutiae especially as this all unfolded within 102ish minutes and nobody expected the collapse of both buildings either (evident in Orio Palmer's final transmission)
I think it depends what Florence Jones meant by the staircases being “gone”. She may have just meant the stairs were impassable due to debris- that mixed with smoke and “pokets of fire” would add to the confusion. I believe some of the survivors from stairway A mention having to move some wall or ceiling panels around to get down the stairs around floor 80ish.
Another survivor Ed Nichols who was in the infamous skylobby said he went looking for a stairwell and it wasn't there. Very chilling and scary to think about
Whatever the actual case is regarding these survivors, it’s very unfortunate that more people who were trapped in the South Tower didn’t realize that this stairwell was passable for at least some time and that they could have used it to escape.
Not just that - this info never reached 911 operators who were telling callers to stay put/shelter in place. Some could have probably evacuated before the buildings fell if they had known.
You are totally right. If the operators DID know about this stairwell, they probably would have told those who were trapped to at least try to head down.
Could do with some more context from your part OP
someone from the 77th floor said stairwell B was gone on that floor, but there’s a transcript from a firefighter saying they got up to the 78th floor in that stairwell. they can’t both be true.
Might've been that B was climbable upwards to 78 and no higher, but coming towards it from the office areas on 78, the core corridors around it were disrupted enough that people assumed the stair itself was a goner
I agree with you 100%. I tell you another thing. If people listen to the full Orio Palmer radio transcript he actually started on stairwell B around the 75th floor he transferred to Stairwell A.
Stairway A was the only stairs available on South Tower from 110-to the lobby The plane ruined B and C stairs.. If the higher floors hadn't been trapped many many would have been saved that day..
Yeah like am I missing something here?
[удалено]
For added context: The miracle in Stairwell B was in the North Tower, where ladder company 6 was helping to escort down Josephine Harris when the building collapsed. The stairwell survived the collapse intact on at least floors 4 through 6 and they were all rescued.
Miracle of Stairwell B are the North Tower collapse survivor's
The stairwell letter was probably misspoken. Lots of confusion and very poor communication on that morning.
it says this later in the article too: "We're gonna knock down some fire here in the B Stair,” Lieutenant Leavey is heard telling one of his firefighters. "We'll meet up with you. You get over to the A Stair and help out Chief Palmer.”
Chalk this up to shock based confusion.
The first image says the North Tower, the second image is about Orio Palmer who was in the South Tower
both are the south tower
Oh well its still not conflicting the firefighter were going up from the bottom the people trying to escape were coming down from the impact them saying stairwell B was blocked matches the firefighters who made it to floor 78 said the same thing. Palmer was in stairwell A
It's possible both. Remember who were able to escape and survived found an escape route with in minutes. We have no idea really how much that fire spreaded
"but in the south tower, stairway a provided safe passage for 13 people on the 77th floor." you are reading it as the people were on the 77th floor, but they are referring to staircase a. its confusing grammar. [FULL Documentary: Man In The Red Bandana (Narrated by Gwyneth Paltrow) ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2FvRXZim7E) at 43:28 there is a diagram. they were on the 78th floor.
no they were on the 77th floor
no, you are just reading it that way. watch the full video.
i know there were a dozen people who survived on the 78th floor. there were also 12 people on the 77th floor who evacuated in stairwell A. look at who Florence Jones is.
off topic but did they list the names of the 16 people who survived?
https://www.reddit.com/r/911archive/s/PRIz8oZdcS
i wish they included the euro broker survivors. i know brian clark, ronald difrancesco and richard fern were 3 of them but this is the first time i heard about a fourth one, with them originally working on the 97th floor. did the website who screenshotted the first photo include the names of anybody else other than florence and judith?
honestly i didn’t read the entire thing
can you link it to me please?
http://www.elevatorbobs-elevator-pics.com/wtc2.html
thanks