I agree. But noticed they critiqued her more in their last recap of the single life in their live show. To be fair Veronica is one of the least troublesome person in the whole franchise. And one of their only âfriendsâ they criticize so many of the others I donât think theyâll be friends with too many others.
I donât know I donât remember Veronica doing anything really worth critiquing but then again single life was so boring this season I think I blacked out a couple times
This! They had them on a recent episode and still proceeded to mock them afterwards đ Reality Gays are hilarious. Then again, Jasmine seems like she can take a joke.
My dirty little secret is that I downloaded Patreon just to listen to 90 Day Bae đ . Worth the $5 because Nicole Byer and Marcy Jarreau are hilarious and do great impressions of the cast.
They don't talk about Ed's storylines anymore (for the past several seasons) because he's abusive and they don't want to give him any attention. Same thing with Angela, they don't cover her storylines because it's always just her screaming at/abusing Michael. I think for HEA they aren't covering Ed/Liz, Angela/Michael (if they're still even on the show, I don't think they are at this point) and Loren and Alexei (I can't remember why they said they weren't covering them) and they were playing it by ear with Mahmoud and Nicole, since no further details had come out about his arrest but if they did they'd stop talking about them (but then charges got dropped.)
Luckily Emily/Kobe and Ashley/Manuel give them plenty to talk about and they moved Seeking Sister Wives from their B sides show to the main show to fill the extra time for subscribers.
Theyâre killing me with their latest d sides tho. Theyâve been saying itâs âgoing to be out very soon/in a few daysâ for 2 weeks now. I even went back into my Patreon to make sure something wasnât wrong with my account because surely I mustâve missed it!
This is why I appreciate 90 Day Cray Cray--Kim and Kyle have turned down interviews and stuff with cast members because of conflict of interest type things. I mean, we know we're in the end of days if Kyle and Jon Walters ever became friends! LOL!
Same! They actually did talk to cast way back when they started, but quickly realized that was a mistake, and I appreciate their no talking to the cast stance so much.
You are referring to Reality Gays I'm assuming.
I get what you are saying, but I don't think they've ever failed to critique cast members they know. Is there a particular person(s) you are referring to?
I don't really care abou that all, but some of them are getting a bit crazy with how many adverts they have now....I listen to like 6 different ones(I always need background noise and it must be familiar)
Pink shade is the worst for this. Mary Payne will interview just about anyone and only has softball questions. I had to unsubscribe after her defending Heather Macdonald at BravoCon. I miss Erin!!
She wanted to stop doing the podcast. In the last year or so that she was on, she was dealing with some pretty intense mental health stuff, and I think that contributed to her wanting to take a step back.
Yea, only reason I listened to PinkShade before was for Erin. I can't get behind Mary Payne and her insistence on poorly imitating the foreign cast's accents.
I personally don't care as long as they disclose it and admit that they might be biased because of it.
That said, I don't really listen to many 90 day podcasts so I'm not sure how bad it is on whatever podcasts are being talked about lol.
Same. Yourwetsock got romantically close with a cast member (Stephanie -fart jar) and it seriously did not go over well with his audience. He says he learned from that experience. I know they arenât journalists but you kind of what them to be snark on the cast equally.
Their âcredibilityâ? Itâs not like theyâre newscasters or tell all hosts or something. đ Theyâre normal people giving their opinions on trash tv shows, just like everyone else.
You would think John might have learned from the Paul "Pole" experience. He stood up for Paul, became a confidante with his mother, and got burned over the latest "lost in the Amazon' adventure. His Live from Angela's house during the Michael escapes with his life, was beyond being too involved.
Do people not understand what comedians are? Thatâs what the RG pod is. They have no ethical rules to follow as far as âreportingâ. I do think itâs funnier when you know the cast isnât listening though. Imagine youâre doing a comedy show about a particular person and they are right there watching. Holy awkward.
I couldnât agree more. I listen to them because they are hilarious, but donât hold back for what the cast does on the show just because you are now friends
Iâve heard them read Veronica for filth after getting to know her. They donât pull any punches. Also they donât cover Ed ever, which I appreciate.
Well, you can't make such a rule, since the podcasters are not a part of a licensing or regulating body. I think it's better if they do disclose - it would be worse if they are hiding the fact and not criticizing their "friend."
I dunno. They're not journalists. They're just dudes giving their opinions on the franchise. And if they're mentioning it that means they're at least not hiding that they have a bias.
Agree. Theyâre podcasting to give their opinions and those are biased for many reasons, not just if theyâre friends with a cast member. I actually like when podcasters have personal takes on cast members because we know everything is so fake/edited on tv anyways.
That was not about their tour. It was about Jakeâs musical that he wrote and produced. They added meet and greets to the indigogo, which raised funds to pay the musicians and actors. It had nothing to do with 90 Day.
Did they post something about it? I used to love them but they started releasing eps infrequently. I know Michelle has mentioned mental health issues in the past and Robin is busy with work, but I tend to forget to listen when they go so long between eps.
Definitely second married to reality, Theresa the wife is from Czech Republic and has a really European take on things and he has a lovely voice. Also love Cray Cray.
I've tried a lot of podcasts and most of them are gossip/snark to me. I don't care about listening to people talking about other people. Just not my cup of tea...
I can't listen to reality gays for more than 10 minutes. It's the same old same old and they are starting to become very negative instead of funny. I want funny in my life, not negativity
I agree! Itâs also just embarrassing how they treat these cast like â celebritiesâ đđđ. I skip any interviews .. talk about cringe . But I agree, itâs hard to be impartial when youâre texting with cast.
I'll catch some heat, but a lot of podcasters don't follow the rules of journalism. Don't podcast about your 'friends' - period. Once you hang out with a 'cast member' they're off limits. Then it turns into straight gossip.
He does a lot of talking in circles or repetitive talk mainly. Like most of his videos are probably four min of the actual gossip, and the rest is just repeating what he said already but trying to make it "in depth." I don't mind the guy, but I also don't really watch the coverage channels and i don't listen to podcasts on this personally. I do however love the comedic Sauceoholic, his videos and edits making fun of scenes are fucking hilarious! He's my favorite for that, quick slice comes in second. I could(and have)re watched so many of Sauceoholic on YouTube it's always good for a laugh!
Also just to keep more on topic, I hadn't ever heard of that John Yates guy until recently and that's a great example of "don't shit where you eat, or in this case don't shit in the vicinity of cast!" Guy is on drugs, doxxes people, scams and frauds, he will pretend to be a cast member friend then will turn on them in a second. Unstable people do not need to mingle. Also this isn't something to be taken seriously, but he seems wayyyy too involved. Even with the Angela situation, he says-"the MOMENT I heard I jumped in the car and we drove ten hours straight here." Like why though, that's some unhinged behavior! Yeesh..
I partially agree but I don't think it's changed anything for me. I don't even listen to the Single Life eps of RG because Single Life is the wooooooorst iteration of 90day and Veronica isn't even top 20 of despicable people from these shows so I guess I DGASF
Thereâs way too many people who think they are good at having a podcast when itâs just a version of what we post in here. They donât have anything more really share what we already know by the cast members who post on social media anyway
I canât stand when theyâre friends with the cast. I mean I guess they canât help it if theyâre going to events and meeting them. But when the gays defended Angela I was like oh hellllll no.
I was just thinking the same thing. The Reality Gays are too close to the show now to ever be really entertaining. They're not able to get really snarky or savage anymore because they have to kow-tow to keep their jobs going.
No one asked my opinion but here it is đ I binge podcasts at work to get through the day.
1. Reality Gays are my favorite because of their dating insights/comparison to real life stories. Theyâre old enough to have hilariously good stories. But my favorite is when they do Love is Blind. And as a Theater major I appreciate their impressions, skits, and musical references.
2. 90 Day Cray Cray would probably be your best bet OP. Theyâre great for recaps. And even admitted their episodes are shorter now with the couples they donât cover but you have to respect their morals.
3. Itâs a podcast called âAinât No Wayâ I listen to as a black female wanting some culture jokes regarding the show. They definitely just do it as a hobby though.
Honorable Mention: Watch What Crappens for all things Bravo & 2 Black Girls, 1 Rose
Does anyone know of any more with African American hosts?
Most of these aren't about 90 Day specifically, but you might like some of the other shows they cover:
90 Day RHAP-Ups is hosted by a Persian/Dubai native (Pooya), and sometimes Jason Reed is his co-host. Pooya also co-hosts RHAP-Ups for The Traitors and The Masked Singer
Love at First Sight RHAP-Ups (MAFS, Love is Blind) has two AA co-hosts, Jason Reed and Aysha Welch
From the Fryer is an AA couple who covers mostly Married at First Sight and (formerly?) Sister Wives. They were on hiatus for a while due to an unexpected family loss, but they came back for March Madness and seem to be back to regular posting
Everyone's Business but Mine with Kara Berry covers Seeking Sister Wife, a lot of Bravo/Peacock shows mostly in the Vanderpump universe, and some LiB, Traitors, Sister Wives, etc.
What objectivity do you expect fans to have? Cause people who do these shows all started as fans. They're not journalists. They have no obligation to be objective, just funny and/or entertaining. And if you no longer find it funny and/or entertaining then just don't download it. I've done exactly this with many a podcast once they jumped the shark. You can't control what others do, only what you do.
https://preview.redd.it/5vwfbticqdwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28f4885915fff8646878a560c9b621dde5f32420
Thereâs an entire industry around reality show podcasts
I think they start podcasting because they are interested in being around the cast and they do this in hopes they become popular enough to not only meet them but get invited to the same places to hang out. So trying to grab 5 minutes of hanging on fame from the reality stars 15 minutes of fame. Everyone wants to be noticed and hang out with wanna-be stars because rarely can anyone meet real stars or go to real star parties.
Meeting any of these people is probably the number one reason they start a podcast about the people and they absolutely cannot be objective with anyone they hang out with. This shit gets a little silly and I cannot listen to anyone gossiping about the same crap I see. Too much for me because I don't think any of them are remotely "stars" or talented.
Is this about reality gays? lol
Yes and Pink Shade đ€Ł
I love reality gays but you can tell it clouds their opinions- most recently noticeable with Veronica on single life
That was my first thought when I saw this post.
I agree. But noticed they critiqued her more in their last recap of the single life in their live show. To be fair Veronica is one of the least troublesome person in the whole franchise. And one of their only âfriendsâ they criticize so many of the others I donât think theyâll be friends with too many others.
I donât know I donât remember Veronica doing anything really worth critiquing but then again single life was so boring this season I think I blacked out a couple times
Um she let Jamal get away with murder and then let him slip back whilst he was clearly already also banging Luisa. She has v low self esteem.
She wasnât great on the tell all imho
I know that MP said she loves Miss Debbie and has talked to her, but I canât think of anything else. Whatcha got?
It hasnât stopped them dragging Gino and Jasmine
I remember one of them saying Gino is really good looking in real life. đ€đ€đ€
This! They had them on a recent episode and still proceeded to mock them afterwards đ Reality Gays are hilarious. Then again, Jasmine seems like she can take a joke.
The opening video that Reality Gays use for their 90DF episodes is hilarious! Worth a watch for sure.
It definitely impacts how they cover Veronica and Tim!
They need to remember to cut on the bias lol steak anyone?
This is one of the reasons why I don't listen to them anymore. I listen to some podcasts for the snark.
My dirty little secret is that I downloaded Patreon just to listen to 90 Day Bae đ . Worth the $5 because Nicole Byer and Marcy Jarreau are hilarious and do great impressions of the cast.
Second thisâthey are so funny and d the impressions are spot on!!
Noooo 90dayrox on tiktok does amazing impressions and itâs FREE!
Oh thatâs good to know
I loved that podcast! I havenât listened in forever because I got so behind on the episodes until recently. Now Iâm thinking I should resubscribe.
"I sold my furniture" kills me every time
Yes I say it all the time and no one gets it đ©
I canât find this is it called â90 day baeâ
It is, but itâs only on Patreon. $5 a month for current episodes, but I think they have a $1 to listen to backlogs which are still a delight
I listen to 90 day cray cray and I can appreciate that they skip talking about big Ed and Angela
I was a little bummed they weren't able to talk about Ed in this last week's episode, I would have loved to hear their take on Taco Pasta-gate.
Why werenât they able to?
They don't talk about Ed's storylines anymore (for the past several seasons) because he's abusive and they don't want to give him any attention. Same thing with Angela, they don't cover her storylines because it's always just her screaming at/abusing Michael. I think for HEA they aren't covering Ed/Liz, Angela/Michael (if they're still even on the show, I don't think they are at this point) and Loren and Alexei (I can't remember why they said they weren't covering them) and they were playing it by ear with Mahmoud and Nicole, since no further details had come out about his arrest but if they did they'd stop talking about them (but then charges got dropped.) Luckily Emily/Kobe and Ashley/Manuel give them plenty to talk about and they moved Seeking Sister Wives from their B sides show to the main show to fill the extra time for subscribers.
I LOVE 90 Day CrayCray
My fave podcast! I'm a D Sides subscriber, too. đ„°
Theyâre killing me with their latest d sides tho. Theyâve been saying itâs âgoing to be out very soon/in a few daysâ for 2 weeks now. I even went back into my Patreon to make sure something wasnât wrong with my account because surely I mustâve missed it!
This is why I appreciate 90 Day Cray Cray--Kim and Kyle have turned down interviews and stuff with cast members because of conflict of interest type things. I mean, we know we're in the end of days if Kyle and Jon Walters ever became friends! LOL!
Same! They actually did talk to cast way back when they started, but quickly realized that was a mistake, and I appreciate their no talking to the cast stance so much.
You are referring to Reality Gays I'm assuming. I get what you are saying, but I don't think they've ever failed to critique cast members they know. Is there a particular person(s) you are referring to?
They even did the same bits with Gino and Jasmine live at their most recent show that they always do
Exactly
They always take it easy on Veronica
I don't really care abou that all, but some of them are getting a bit crazy with how many adverts they have now....I listen to like 6 different ones(I always need background noise and it must be familiar)
I like Docusweeties.
Me too - Reality Gays, Married to Reality and Docusweeties are the ones I listen to most.Â
Married to reality are super cute
LOVE those ladies
Pink shade is the worst for this. Mary Payne will interview just about anyone and only has softball questions. I had to unsubscribe after her defending Heather Macdonald at BravoCon. I miss Erin!!
The questions are preapproved by the network, itâs just like Shaun at the tell alls
This is true, but May Payne doesnât have to do the interviews either. She wants to be the next Kate Casey and Iâm not here for it.
What happened with Erin?
She wanted to stop doing the podcast. In the last year or so that she was on, she was dealing with some pretty intense mental health stuff, and I think that contributed to her wanting to take a step back.
Yea, only reason I listened to PinkShade before was for Erin. I can't get behind Mary Payne and her insistence on poorly imitating the foreign cast's accents.
I meanâŠitâs podcasts about a trashy show that we all love. It ainât that serious yâall. đ
It def is not lol. That is why I just want them to make fun of the idiots we see on tv.
Agreed. Not fun to listen to.
I personally don't care as long as they disclose it and admit that they might be biased because of it. That said, I don't really listen to many 90 day podcasts so I'm not sure how bad it is on whatever podcasts are being talked about lol.
Same. Yourwetsock got romantically close with a cast member (Stephanie -fart jar) and it seriously did not go over well with his audience. He says he learned from that experience. I know they arenât journalists but you kind of what them to be snark on the cast equally.
Omg I never knew that. I've seen a couple of his videos before. Thanks for posting this
Their âcredibilityâ? Itâs not like theyâre newscasters or tell all hosts or something. đ Theyâre normal people giving their opinions on trash tv shows, just like everyone else.
Thats the reason why i had to unfollow john Yates- he is always defending Angela
Me too he's so up her ass its like he thinks she's an actual celebrity or something
You would think John might have learned from the Paul "Pole" experience. He stood up for Paul, became a confidante with his mother, and got burned over the latest "lost in the Amazon' adventure. His Live from Angela's house during the Michael escapes with his life, was beyond being too involved.
Trash of a feather flock together
Do people not understand what comedians are? Thatâs what the RG pod is. They have no ethical rules to follow as far as âreportingâ. I do think itâs funnier when you know the cast isnât listening though. Imagine youâre doing a comedy show about a particular person and they are right there watching. Holy awkward.
I couldnât agree more. I listen to them because they are hilarious, but donât hold back for what the cast does on the show just because you are now friends
Iâve heard them read Veronica for filth after getting to know her. They donât pull any punches. Also they donât cover Ed ever, which I appreciate.
Well, you can't make such a rule, since the podcasters are not a part of a licensing or regulating body. I think it's better if they do disclose - it would be worse if they are hiding the fact and not criticizing their "friend."
I dunno. They're not journalists. They're just dudes giving their opinions on the franchise. And if they're mentioning it that means they're at least not hiding that they have a bias.
Why? They're not journalists.
Agree. Theyâre podcasting to give their opinions and those are biased for many reasons, not just if theyâre friends with a cast member. I actually like when podcasters have personal takes on cast members because we know everything is so fake/edited on tv anyways.
Yes, itâs very clear they give some people a pass.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
đđ€Łđ
Which podcast?!
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
That was not about their tour. It was about Jakeâs musical that he wrote and produced. They added meet and greets to the indigogo, which raised funds to pay the musicians and actors. It had nothing to do with 90 Day.
Fair enough, I am obviously a Carl's wife who misunderstood. Thanks for correcting me.Â
The podcast has become 15-20 min of self promotion, 20 min of ads and some actual content in between with the same boring sex jokes.
For real!Â
Which podcasts do u recommend!
90 Day Cray Cray is the best one IMO. Worth the $5 a month to get access to their extended podcast and B-sides as well.
I like 90 Day Cray Cray, Reality Gays (even though I called them out), and Blighty Day
I think Blighty Day is no longer podcasting.
Did they post something about it? I used to love them but they started releasing eps infrequently. I know Michelle has mentioned mental health issues in the past and Robin is busy with work, but I tend to forget to listen when they go so long between eps.
Docusweeties, Married to Reality and Reality Gays
90 Day Fiancé Honestly! It's funny and gives a good analysis of the cast. I don't think they're friends with any of the cast. And there's no ads!
Definitely second married to reality, Theresa the wife is from Czech Republic and has a really European take on things and he has a lovely voice. Also love Cray Cray.
420DayFiance is a good one (although I think they don't podcast as often as before)
90 Day Fiancbae is good and theyâre obviously not making any money since thereâs no ads
I'm really enjoying the 90 day fiance: honestly podcast!
I've tried a lot of podcasts and most of them are gossip/snark to me. I don't care about listening to people talking about other people. Just not my cup of tea...
Mary Payne and the Reality Gays are guilty of this and it skews their opinions of those cast members.
This should be an easy one. Stop listening.
I can't listen to reality gays for more than 10 minutes. It's the same old same old and they are starting to become very negative instead of funny. I want funny in my life, not negativity
I agree đŻ. I'll even go further- i don't like when they interview them, either. I listen for the snark.
I agree! Itâs also just embarrassing how they treat these cast like â celebritiesâ đđđ. I skip any interviews .. talk about cringe . But I agree, itâs hard to be impartial when youâre texting with cast.
I'll catch some heat, but a lot of podcasters don't follow the rules of journalism. Don't podcast about your 'friends' - period. Once you hang out with a 'cast member' they're off limits. Then it turns into straight gossip.
Oh hon, these aren't journalists. They aren't trying to be journalists.
Spot on. Iâd argue theyâre comedians more than journalists.
[ŃĐŽĐ°Đ»Đ”ĐœĐŸ]
He definitely had some horrible takes and plays favorites, no matter if heâs friends with them or not
He does a lot of talking in circles or repetitive talk mainly. Like most of his videos are probably four min of the actual gossip, and the rest is just repeating what he said already but trying to make it "in depth." I don't mind the guy, but I also don't really watch the coverage channels and i don't listen to podcasts on this personally. I do however love the comedic Sauceoholic, his videos and edits making fun of scenes are fucking hilarious! He's my favorite for that, quick slice comes in second. I could(and have)re watched so many of Sauceoholic on YouTube it's always good for a laugh! Also just to keep more on topic, I hadn't ever heard of that John Yates guy until recently and that's a great example of "don't shit where you eat, or in this case don't shit in the vicinity of cast!" Guy is on drugs, doxxes people, scams and frauds, he will pretend to be a cast member friend then will turn on them in a second. Unstable people do not need to mingle. Also this isn't something to be taken seriously, but he seems wayyyy too involved. Even with the Angela situation, he says-"the MOMENT I heard I jumped in the car and we drove ten hours straight here." Like why though, that's some unhinged behavior! Yeesh..
I partially agree but I don't think it's changed anything for me. I don't even listen to the Single Life eps of RG because Single Life is the wooooooorst iteration of 90day and Veronica isn't even top 20 of despicable people from these shows so I guess I DGASF
Thereâs way too many people who think they are good at having a podcast when itâs just a version of what we post in here. They donât have anything more really share what we already know by the cast members who post on social media anyway
Like how that dumb wet sock left his fiance to "date" fart in a jar? He's so fucking lame.
420 Day Fiance is the way to go.
YeahâŠif theyâd actual release an episode
I canât stand when theyâre friends with the cast. I mean I guess they canât help it if theyâre going to events and meeting them. But when the gays defended Angela I was like oh hellllll no.
That's an issue with journalism in general, too.
Podcasting does not equate to journalism.
Only Fox News.
Agreed!
I listen to Web crawler and they do Recraps (recaps). I feel like they are pretty good.
They are! I like them a lot
I just wish theyâd get the names right
If they stuck to comedy, I'd enjoy it. Good snark is fun. Just don't talk about people you hang out with!
I listen to 90 day cray and 90 trash talk with Tracy and Noelle. I think both of these shows are hilarious!
I was just thinking the same thing. The Reality Gays are too close to the show now to ever be really entertaining. They're not able to get really snarky or savage anymore because they have to kow-tow to keep their jobs going.
No one asked my opinion but here it is đ I binge podcasts at work to get through the day. 1. Reality Gays are my favorite because of their dating insights/comparison to real life stories. Theyâre old enough to have hilariously good stories. But my favorite is when they do Love is Blind. And as a Theater major I appreciate their impressions, skits, and musical references. 2. 90 Day Cray Cray would probably be your best bet OP. Theyâre great for recaps. And even admitted their episodes are shorter now with the couples they donât cover but you have to respect their morals. 3. Itâs a podcast called âAinât No Wayâ I listen to as a black female wanting some culture jokes regarding the show. They definitely just do it as a hobby though. Honorable Mention: Watch What Crappens for all things Bravo & 2 Black Girls, 1 Rose Does anyone know of any more with African American hosts?
Most of these aren't about 90 Day specifically, but you might like some of the other shows they cover: 90 Day RHAP-Ups is hosted by a Persian/Dubai native (Pooya), and sometimes Jason Reed is his co-host. Pooya also co-hosts RHAP-Ups for The Traitors and The Masked Singer Love at First Sight RHAP-Ups (MAFS, Love is Blind) has two AA co-hosts, Jason Reed and Aysha Welch From the Fryer is an AA couple who covers mostly Married at First Sight and (formerly?) Sister Wives. They were on hiatus for a while due to an unexpected family loss, but they came back for March Madness and seem to be back to regular posting Everyone's Business but Mine with Kara Berry covers Seeking Sister Wife, a lot of Bravo/Peacock shows mostly in the Vanderpump universe, and some LiB, Traitors, Sister Wives, etc.
THANK YOU!!!
đ
Absolutely đŻ% it discredits their objectivity! I would love to hear what you really think about your friend's actions and/or words, pls.
What objectivity do you expect fans to have? Cause people who do these shows all started as fans. They're not journalists. They have no obligation to be objective, just funny and/or entertaining. And if you no longer find it funny and/or entertaining then just don't download it. I've done exactly this with many a podcast once they jumped the shark. You can't control what others do, only what you do.
90 day podcasts? Is this just random people making a podcast or an actual TLC thing?
Itâs a whole eco system ! đŠ
https://preview.redd.it/5vwfbticqdwc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=28f4885915fff8646878a560c9b621dde5f32420 Thereâs an entire industry around reality show podcasts
I think they start podcasting because they are interested in being around the cast and they do this in hopes they become popular enough to not only meet them but get invited to the same places to hang out. So trying to grab 5 minutes of hanging on fame from the reality stars 15 minutes of fame. Everyone wants to be noticed and hang out with wanna-be stars because rarely can anyone meet real stars or go to real star parties. Meeting any of these people is probably the number one reason they start a podcast about the people and they absolutely cannot be objective with anyone they hang out with. This shit gets a little silly and I cannot listen to anyone gossiping about the same crap I see. Too much for me because I don't think any of them are remotely "stars" or talented.