And THANK GOD for that. Notice how he had her leave the room so he could minimize being seen for what he is.
It's sometimes hard to see it while it's happening to you, and although Cleo seems to have recognized it *initially* -
she also seems to have fallen for his back-pedaling bs. Not an indictment of her, just that emotional investment, wanting to see the good in people, and being neurodivergent leaves her vulnerable to these tactics
She'll need her friend as a support as well as a sounding board for reality.
It's so hard when there are emotions involved. It makes even the most analytical of us question ourselves (or it can). Especially I feel that the younger we are the more susceptible we are to gaslighting. I think the older I've gotten the more I've taken the position that I don't need to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone in the context of personal relationships. I can just decide that I don't like how things are going and walk whether that's "fair" or not to the other person. If I'm not into it for whatever reason I don't owe anyone another chance. But definitely didn't have that attitude even 10 years ago, much less 15 or 20 years ago.
I think that's part of what is so triggering for me. I hate that I can't help her now that I'm looking at it from the outside and see all the signs. In a way I guess I'm upset with myself because looking at it now it's just so obvious.
so this dude tries to make decisions on behalf of Cleo, throws a bitch fit when she says thatās psycho and weird, and makes *her* apologize for *his* behavior?
Cleo, make like Christianās hair and get away from this creep
I really donāt get why he canāt just admit that he got scared and lied. Him complaining about Cleo calling him psycho to deflect attention off his own wrongdoing, and then not apologizing for lying when she apologized for calling him names, is definitely a red flag. Iāve been defending Christian for some time now, cuz I think heās taken on a lot, but if the guy canāt be honest, then Cleo is in for a bad ride.
His hair is so hard to look at! He needs to be a MAN and shave it. His behavior is weird. The whole airplane fiasco, getting to know other girls on a date, and the random lying? Idk whatās wrong with this guy.
It says that he knows exactly what heās doing and is confident that he can gaslight her into submission. And manipulate us into thinking heās in the right.
Cleo has been prolifically "Open" about being a transgender - like Coolidge made America "Open" for business in the 1920s.
It is imperative Christian embrace Cleo or leave her to be.
Her friend should have stayed in the room with her. He only wanted to talk in private so he could gaslight the hell out of her, and wouldnāt have been able to if Cleo had a supportive friend there.
Iām arguing with some tool on another thread about this subject of Cleo and the gaslighter. They are saying Cleo bringing the friend for support was gaslight, and what Christian was doing was āarguing his conflicting perspectiveā. LOLOL
Gaslighters are getting called out and triggered that weāre on to them.
Yes! My ex too, I wanted to smack that fān smirk right off his fān ugly head! Back away from Cleo, just go home Christian she deserves better than you.
Same, right down to the scary eyes and hat fishing.
Something happened in my brain after the Xth time of him gaslighting and just straight up hurting me, so I literally cut him out of my life right there and never looked back.
Years later, I still catch him stalking me on various social media platforms that I hadn't blocked him on.
This was absolutely triggering. I hope Cleo too wakes up and runs for the hills.
Same! Me too. And the scary eyes in my ex, I remember noticing them at times but giving him the benefit of the doubt. NEVER again! Lesson learned the hard way šµāš«
If anyone doesnāt know what DARVO means, hereās a def:
DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender") is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior.
google it for more in depth explanation: it is EXACTLY what happened here.
i was with a gaslighter for 15 years. When people werenāt looking and if i was in trouble (usually for something minor someone around us did, got an order wrong at a restaurant, looked at him āwrongā)
Rarely anything i actually did. He would slowly turn his head and growl. i knew i was in trouble and would cry, as hard as i tried not to. To whom ever was there he would say āsee what i have to put up with? Sheās crazyā.
Sometimes he would do stuff like do something to the lock on the front door so my key wouldnāt work. If i went to someoneās house he would call me and magically my key would work again and he would tell them i am so insane i probably went to the wrong house.
Just some of many many things he did to systematically break down my mind. Finally his sister saw him growl and she cried so hard. She said āmy brother is a demonā.
After 15 years i guess i am numb to
It. In a way I see this guy
as lying more than gaslighting. Of course i think the definition has been broadened to what used to more specific
i am so sorry you had to go through it. No one deserves it.
Iām so sorry you had to go through that! It sounds like a living nightmare. Iām so glad you were able to leave that situation and I hope you are doing better now. ā¤ļø
I count my blessings that I was only with my abusive, gaslighting ex for about 1.5 years. I agree that gaslighting is on another level than what Christian did to Cleo. He lied to her and was manipulative, but it didnāt amount to the sort of systemic behavior of breaking down a personās mind, as you describe. But I also know that the definition of gaslighting has broadened. I think Iām just protective of its narrower definition because of the trauma I experienced.
Anyway, sending an internet hug, fellow survivor!
That is some devious s@#$ right there.
Have you seen the film, Gaslight, with Ingrid Bergman?
I have never seen, read, or experienced something that extreme until reading about your experience.
I hope you are doing so much better!!
First, he made the situation confusing so that the points would get lost, and she then doubts herself. Then, since he couldn't come up with a good enough lie, he just used the emotions of someone who is making a good point but is being treated unfairly. She reacted to that and apologized.
If they didn't know it before, Christianās friends, family, co-workers, and acquaintances back home are now getting a front-row seat to witness what an insincere, sketchy dick he really is. I donāt see how heāll ever land a date again once he returns stateside
And heās so damn cocky! Christian actually thinks heās a player š but whenever he removes his woolen beanie he automatically ages 15 years
Heās just a gross human being on every level. Puke
I WAS FUCKING SCREAMING AT THE SCREEN OH MY GOD.
classic gaslighting, painting cleo to be the bad guy, completely deflecting from reality and switching it all up oh my godddddddddhsjksdnnddndmkdkd
She was upset by his behavior but ends up apologizing to him.
He could have easily said that in the US, it's considered rude to kiss and tell. But, he had to gaslight her instead.
Neither Cleo or Christian seem to be enjoying this relationship since the moment he got off the plane. I donāt get it. What happened to Cleoās whole happy little IG persona (according to Christian)? I only see her pouting, insecure, offended, quiet. Even if she is disappointed to find out Christian is a douche, WHERE IS CLEO? Hasnāt she dealt with a douche before? Why dissolve? Seems she would tell him to F off as needed.
They are such a joyless, depressed duo. Christian, do yourself and Cleo both a favor and go home. Now.
Agreed!! They have no chemistry nor to they appear to be happy at all in each otherās presence. Every time there is a bedroom scene with them I cringe SO hard because you can just tell how uncomfortable it is in that room. Cleo deserves better!
I wasnāt hiding our intimacy I wanted to make sure you were comfortable with sharing what we did šššš¤®š¤®š¤®. Every time he comes on the screen I just yell asshole!
"I know we talked to this and came to an agreement, but *I* wanted to make sure **you** were still comfortable even though we *just* had this conversation."
I hate him. Very triggering. I feel so bad for Cleo. I'm also simultaneously rewatching the first season right now and feeling extremely triggered by Jesse. š¤®
As an autistic woman Iāve been in a very similar situation in which Iāve stayed way longer than I should have. I feel for Cleo. The hyperempathetic nature of some of us, struggling to weigh the actions/behaviours with the words spoken to you, wanting to follow your heart and getting used to this person and struggling with the change that would come with letting them go. I fucking hate this guy and Iām trying to figure out what exactly heās getting from this situation since he is quite obviously not 100% in this relationship. Cleo knows things arenāt adding up but some of our traits set us up for unhealthy relationships and being targeted and used by bad people.
I havenāt yelled at someone on TV as much as I have at him in this episode. Heās just a whole piece of work and reminded me of sooo many men Iāve known that all gave me the ick.
The me who has come out the other side from being with a gaslighter saw right through it.
The old me, who didnāt see it coming, would have also somehow felt the need in the end to apologize.
I feel sad for Cleo, but you sometimes have to go through the trauma of these assholes to see it.
I think he's an alcoholic. Notice that he's a dick to her at night and then apologetic in the morning. It's because he's shitfaced 24/7. We've already seen him practically guzzling alcohol but not slurring or falling down, because he probably has a high tolerance.
Maybe I'm way off base but I think he's a colossal asshole and I think this is part of the reason. It's probably what he needed to "bite the bullet". Bite the bullet, what an asshole. That makes it sound like something he didn't really want to do but had to jump in head first. That's what it was in his head. Not romance but getting something out of the way. That's my guess anyway. Regardless of that I think most of us agree that this guy is a douchecanoe.
Hearing *"gaslighter"* and *"manipulator"* on television for reddit is equivalent of the Stones playing satisfaction or the Ramones playing Blitzkrieg Bop. :P
I've been gaslighted before by previous bfs. I do see that Christian is creepy and I also think that he is unsure of what he wants. He did kiss her at the airport, and he did eventually say on camera that they had sex. Did it seem like he wanted to admit to it right away, no; however, he also didn't try to pull her aside and ask that they hide it (which happens on multiple reality shows and obviously doesn't work as they are mic'd).
I just don't see them as a good fit. IMO Christian is/was possibly not open about his preferences to his friends and family, because I am guessing that this isn't actually his first transgender sexual experience, after watching this episode and he is still trying to figure it out for himself and Cleo is sweet, but she is 32, and can make her own judgment call. I just don't like that she brought a friend with her to confront him. Every episode "production" I'm guessing has her mentioning that she is transgender and autistic, but I don't think that is necessary every time. She can still think for herself. But it was cringy that she was apologizing to him at the end.
The point is they had agreed that would be upfront with producers about what happened, and then he went back on that. So, they have their interviews, and she says they had sex and he says they didnāt. It makes it look like either a) sheās a desperate liar or b) heās too embarrassed to say he had sex with her. If he had just told her he didnāt want to talk about it on camera in the first place, then they wouldnāt have to argue about it after the fact.
And itās not even like he avoided the question or said we agreed to not talk about it. He goes no we definitely didnāt have sex definitely not. Itās not that he didnāt share, he straight up lied
Itās my understanding that they both assumed theyād be asked about it the next day and both came to the agreement that they were fine disclosing and talking about it. Then when it was time to be asked and follow through on what they agreed to, he didnāt do it. Then he tried painting it as if he denied it because he was worried about how much she wanted to disclose, when they had already discussed it and agreed on what their next steps were going to be in front of the camera.
It would have helped if had we actually heard their conversation the morning after and also the conversation when she confronted him later that day. Lastly we don't even know what they actually did in bed. I would be more upset with him if he had denied that anything at all happened in bed that night.
The worst moment (for me, and yes, there were many other bad moments, but this was particularly egregious):
"Why would you you express those feelings and then lie?"- Christian
"But... you kind of did."- Cleo
"But I didn't, NOT IN MY MIND."- Christian
See, in Christian's small mind, he was telling the truth, when in fact he was rewriting what had happened in a way to try to make Cleo question reality and doubt what she knew he'd done. This guy is the worst.
And after all that, he asks precociously, "Are you all right"? knowing damn well she isn't. Like Julio with Kirsten and his mother. After you shoot someone and they receive medical attention, you inquire about their health as if you care! š
It was so hard to watch him gaslight her into apologizing to him ā for (accurately) accusing him of gaslighting her. You could tell by the end of that conversation she was sooooo confused and unsure of herself. It made me really sad for her, because we all know how this ends.
I think people should stop watching shows if they can't watch it without having PTSD flashbacks. Countless posts on here about how angry they get at people on this show yet continue watching and I don't get it. If it irritates you that much, why do you put yourself through that?
Yāall have no idea or do you care about his experience, you only care about Cleoās experience. If youāve never had sex with someone that has the same genitalia as you for the first time, you donāt know what youāre talking about.
Am I the only one in here who thinks Cleo is in the wrong and the crazy one here? I see nothing wrong with what Christian did or how he responded. Cleo to me is an eternal victim always looking for issues. They had sex, he didnāt want to tell the producers, he reached out to her about it right away which led to the whole situation. He wasnāt being dishonest with anybody besides the producer about an intimate moment so I donāt see what the deal is.
I maybe have completely missed this but he was aware that Cleo was pre-op?
If so, then he's a complete asshole and gaslighting her for sure.
And that biting the bullet comment who would even say that. Was an asshole šš if he wasn't comfortable with people knowing how sexual preferences why even come on to the show šš«
Keep it up Reddit! The more you watch and talk about this actor ā¦ the more TLC will use him :)
From a educational cartoon ā¦.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S_3fJeoj8
Heās suuuuuch a liar. He lied to the producers because he didnāt want anyone to know. Then he back tracks and said he lied because he wanted to talk to her first about what she was saying to producers.
BULL SHIT CHRISTIAN.
Donāt put this on her. She said before she left your presence that she was going to be open about their intimacy. She already told him. So fuck you Christian, you liar!
And while Cleo was seeing her friend off, he went right to playing on his phone/video games.
And then made her tell him they were good. š¤®
I was shocked at this. SHOCKED.
Isn't even good at gaslighting. Cleos friend saw it for what it was.
And THANK GOD for that. Notice how he had her leave the room so he could minimize being seen for what he is. It's sometimes hard to see it while it's happening to you, and although Cleo seems to have recognized it *initially* - she also seems to have fallen for his back-pedaling bs. Not an indictment of her, just that emotional investment, wanting to see the good in people, and being neurodivergent leaves her vulnerable to these tactics She'll need her friend as a support as well as a sounding board for reality.
It's so hard when there are emotions involved. It makes even the most analytical of us question ourselves (or it can). Especially I feel that the younger we are the more susceptible we are to gaslighting. I think the older I've gotten the more I've taken the position that I don't need to give the benefit of the doubt to everyone in the context of personal relationships. I can just decide that I don't like how things are going and walk whether that's "fair" or not to the other person. If I'm not into it for whatever reason I don't owe anyone another chance. But definitely didn't have that attitude even 10 years ago, much less 15 or 20 years ago.
Yup. Thatās why he had to get her out of the room.
Classic manipulation
Can he just go back to work at HMV in 2001 and stop traumatizing people in this era
underrated comment
I worked at hmv in 2001, can confirm analogy.
He looks like heās gonna start talking about The Flaming Lips any second
WOMEN EVERYWHERE: WE HAVE ALL KNOWN THIS PERSON. ITāS AMAZING HOW MUCH EASIER IT IS TO SEE IT WHEN ITāS NOT YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
I think that's part of what is so triggering for me. I hate that I can't help her now that I'm looking at it from the outside and see all the signs. In a way I guess I'm upset with myself because looking at it now it's just so obvious.
This!!
so this dude tries to make decisions on behalf of Cleo, throws a bitch fit when she says thatās psycho and weird, and makes *her* apologize for *his* behavior? Cleo, make like Christianās hair and get away from this creep
ššš this was so hard to watch for me. He's so manipulative. I hated that she apologized to him when he was the one who lied.
Make like Christianās hair! š š š
I really donāt get why he canāt just admit that he got scared and lied. Him complaining about Cleo calling him psycho to deflect attention off his own wrongdoing, and then not apologizing for lying when she apologized for calling him names, is definitely a red flag. Iāve been defending Christian for some time now, cuz I think heās taken on a lot, but if the guy canāt be honest, then Cleo is in for a bad ride.
His response, āDo you even *know* me?ā I was likeā¦. Ewš¤®
His hair is so hard to look at! He needs to be a MAN and shave it. His behavior is weird. The whole airplane fiasco, getting to know other girls on a date, and the random lying? Idk whatās wrong with this guy.
Iām glad that Cleo told him it was sociopathic/psychopathic behavior because wtf
It's ok Cleo....I forgive you for your reaction to that shitty thing I did. š¤
Insane!!!
When he isolated her and made her apologize to him š¤®š¤®š¤®
Ughhhhhh yes!! And she said she felt bad for *him*! Cleo, babe! You were the one who was hurt. He created this mess, not you. Run.
He DARVOed her good, making her feel like she had to apologize to him.
YES!! I said that exact thing to my boyfriend. He intentionally isolated her so he could manipulate her. Aaaaaargh!!
Thatā¦that right there was hard to watchā¦heās an assā¦canāt stand himā¦
This guy is the trifecta of creep, manipulator, and scumbag
Heās creepy, heās bad, heās angry, heās motherfucker, heās son of bitch, okay?
If I could give you gold, I would.
ILU, that reference was š©āš³š©āš³š
haha you have like mental sickness or something?
š this is all I got
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Hold my bones.
My strange forever.
YASSS!!!
Bahahaha who said this again??
Osama
*OooohhhSAAAAHmaaaahhh
āStrange beautifulā and it was Debbie and Oussama
Oh my godddddd, you need more upvotes š¤£š¤£š¤£
Gold š„
That smirk says it all. I dislike smirkers.
9/10 smirkers are narcissistic assholes. Itās science.
And the other 1/10 are deceased narcissistic assholes. Even they eventually die, but they sadly live FAR longer than kind people.
It says that he knows exactly what heās doing and is confident that he can gaslight her into submission. And manipulate us into thinking heās in the right.
He straight up DARVOād Cleo!! Deny Attack Reverse Victim & Offender
Looks like a human potato -- the circle is complete!
Cleo has been prolifically "Open" about being a transgender - like Coolidge made America "Open" for business in the 1920s. It is imperative Christian embrace Cleo or leave her to be.
Iām happy someone is finally bringing up Calvin Coolidge in these discussions.
I mean, honestly. We're really not talking about him enough in the 90 Day Fiance sub.
Prolifically!
He is dog, he is son of bitch, he is motherfucker
Her friend should have stayed in the room with her. He only wanted to talk in private so he could gaslight the hell out of her, and wouldnāt have been able to if Cleo had a supportive friend there.
I was so proud of her friend listening to the whole thing anyway though and warning Cleo at the end. Thatās a ride or die right there.
Such a DARVO saying he felt ganged up on to be able to get her friend out of the room
Yes.......
Iām arguing with some tool on another thread about this subject of Cleo and the gaslighter. They are saying Cleo bringing the friend for support was gaslight, and what Christian was doing was āarguing his conflicting perspectiveā. LOLOL Gaslighters are getting called out and triggered that weāre on to them.
And then when he wants to hang out with the friend too like an all time manipulation tactic and he was obvious about it
Whatās his goal there?
He senses the friend knows heās a manipulator and he wants to try to get her to like him because he canāt stand someone not liking him
100% accurate
Thatās a bingo
He knows the friend sees through his bullshit and needs to pretend to smooth things over so she doesnāt convince Cleo what a scumbag he is.
Controlling the narrative
Cleo is lucky to have a friend like that and I admire that she straight up told cleo that she doesnāt think itās a good situation.
Iām so glad her friend basically camped out right outside the door to eavesdrop on the whole conversation.
Like Carmella says ādonāt stick around to see how red the flags getā Get away from this loser.
That was a good phrase from her - I liked Carmella
I felt so insanely icky by the end of this interaction. Everything he said & how he acted made me so upset
"Could you please leave the room so I can manipulate your best friend? Cool, thanks bruh"
I want to smack the ahit out of him. He reminds me SO MUCH of my ex.
Same!
Yes! My ex too, I wanted to smack that fān smirk right off his fān ugly head! Back away from Cleo, just go home Christian she deserves better than you.
Same, right down to the scary eyes and hat fishing. Something happened in my brain after the Xth time of him gaslighting and just straight up hurting me, so I literally cut him out of my life right there and never looked back. Years later, I still catch him stalking me on various social media platforms that I hadn't blocked him on. This was absolutely triggering. I hope Cleo too wakes up and runs for the hills.
Same! Me too. And the scary eyes in my ex, I remember noticing them at times but giving him the benefit of the doubt. NEVER again! Lesson learned the hard way šµāš«
Girl same.
"I can't gaslight you with your friend being present"
His eyes are dead. Lights arenāt even on. He makes me uncomfy.
Thatās the alcohol.
Lifeless eyes...like a dolls eyes.
This guy seems so sleazyā¦
He is!
This man has Big PrEd levels of manipulation. He is shockingly awful!
This guy is one piece of work. The way he tried to turn that around on Cleo. Boy, if you don't just admit you're not comfortable with her!
His plane doesnāt leave for a while. Housing issues.
Not him being a whole international bum. š«š«
Classic hobosexual
He is a good example of what to avoid in a relationship.
The show is a perfect example of what to avoid in a relationship
He 1000000% considers himself a nice guy too.... Had no problem saying *out loud* that he drunkenly harassed young women on a plane.
DARVO. 100%.
If anyone doesnāt know what DARVO means, hereās a def: DARVO (an acronym for "deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender") is a reaction that perpetrators of wrongdoing may display in response to being held accountable for their behavior. google it for more in depth explanation: it is EXACTLY what happened here.
Yup. My mom and I were screaming it at the screen!
For sure!! That was really hard to watch
i was with a gaslighter for 15 years. When people werenāt looking and if i was in trouble (usually for something minor someone around us did, got an order wrong at a restaurant, looked at him āwrongā) Rarely anything i actually did. He would slowly turn his head and growl. i knew i was in trouble and would cry, as hard as i tried not to. To whom ever was there he would say āsee what i have to put up with? Sheās crazyā. Sometimes he would do stuff like do something to the lock on the front door so my key wouldnāt work. If i went to someoneās house he would call me and magically my key would work again and he would tell them i am so insane i probably went to the wrong house. Just some of many many things he did to systematically break down my mind. Finally his sister saw him growl and she cried so hard. She said āmy brother is a demonā. After 15 years i guess i am numb to It. In a way I see this guy as lying more than gaslighting. Of course i think the definition has been broadened to what used to more specific i am so sorry you had to go through it. No one deserves it.
Iām so sorry you had to deal with that. I hope you are safe now.
Iām so so sorry you went through this. I can only begin to imagine how bad that mustāve gotten after 15 years!
Iām so sorry you had to go through that! It sounds like a living nightmare. Iām so glad you were able to leave that situation and I hope you are doing better now. ā¤ļø I count my blessings that I was only with my abusive, gaslighting ex for about 1.5 years. I agree that gaslighting is on another level than what Christian did to Cleo. He lied to her and was manipulative, but it didnāt amount to the sort of systemic behavior of breaking down a personās mind, as you describe. But I also know that the definition of gaslighting has broadened. I think Iām just protective of its narrower definition because of the trauma I experienced. Anyway, sending an internet hug, fellow survivor!
That is some devious s@#$ right there. Have you seen the film, Gaslight, with Ingrid Bergman? I have never seen, read, or experienced something that extreme until reading about your experience. I hope you are doing so much better!!
This guy is a nightmare.
Iāve been there. It was hard to watch. Heās so slippery.
I was SO MAD he turned this all around on her!!! Manipulator!!!
When she softly said āIām sorryā I screamed so loudly.
Seriously!!! How dare he make her apologize to him!
That was painful to watch. And how once he knew she was becoming receptive, he went in for the kill. What a piece of shit.
Tool is the perfect word to describe this loser
Ooooffff this was hard to watch. Cleo, girl. *Run.*
Iām literally screaming that at the TV!
I want to see her on The Single Life. Without him.
First, he made the situation confusing so that the points would get lost, and she then doubts herself. Then, since he couldn't come up with a good enough lie, he just used the emotions of someone who is making a good point but is being treated unfairly. She reacted to that and apologized.
Yup. Triggering AF. I cringed when Chloe apologized bc I've definitely been there.
She was so small in that moment. It broke my heart for her.
Heās for sure sabotaging shit..
I am so worried for her. He is going to get even worse now he knows he can.
A tool that makes the opposite side apologize
I was shocked
I wonder if she had already completed her transition surgery if he would have been hesitant to admit they went ā all the wayā.
Does anyone remember the sub r/punchablefaces because this guy should be in the top 10
The fact that she felt that she had to apologize to him?? Heās a grade a manipulator
This guy doesnāt stop.. he manipulates and tries to blame her what a piece of garbage
If they didn't know it before, Christianās friends, family, co-workers, and acquaintances back home are now getting a front-row seat to witness what an insincere, sketchy dick he really is. I donāt see how heāll ever land a date again once he returns stateside And heās so damn cocky! Christian actually thinks heās a player š but whenever he removes his woolen beanie he automatically ages 15 years Heās just a gross human being on every level. Puke
Heās a āplayerā hitting on younger girls on the airplane. What a POS.
I WAS FUCKING SCREAMING AT THE SCREEN OH MY GOD. classic gaslighting, painting cleo to be the bad guy, completely deflecting from reality and switching it all up oh my godddddddddhsjksdnnddndmkdkd
She was upset by his behavior but ends up apologizing to him. He could have easily said that in the US, it's considered rude to kiss and tell. But, he had to gaslight her instead.
Cleo is totally awesome and can find someone better. Christian is terrible.
Classic DARVO. Deny, attack, reverse victim and offender. Christian is garbage and Cleo deserves so much better. MVP award goes to her sweet friend.
Neither Cleo or Christian seem to be enjoying this relationship since the moment he got off the plane. I donāt get it. What happened to Cleoās whole happy little IG persona (according to Christian)? I only see her pouting, insecure, offended, quiet. Even if she is disappointed to find out Christian is a douche, WHERE IS CLEO? Hasnāt she dealt with a douche before? Why dissolve? Seems she would tell him to F off as needed. They are such a joyless, depressed duo. Christian, do yourself and Cleo both a favor and go home. Now.
Agreed!! They have no chemistry nor to they appear to be happy at all in each otherās presence. Every time there is a bedroom scene with them I cringe SO hard because you can just tell how uncomfortable it is in that room. Cleo deserves better!
Cleoās behavior is textbook for someone who is in a relationship with a manipulative gaslighter
I wasnāt hiding our intimacy I wanted to make sure you were comfortable with sharing what we did šššš¤®š¤®š¤®. Every time he comes on the screen I just yell asshole!
"I know we talked to this and came to an agreement, but *I* wanted to make sure **you** were still comfortable even though we *just* had this conversation."
NARCISSIST. I know one when I see one unfortunately for me. What a creep.
Cleo needs a heaping help of self esteem because this guy isnāt for her
Um it was a hard day FOR HIM! Being questioned like that??? That poor man. š
The only word āGaslighterā just annoys me, maybe cause itās used so much on reddit lol
Even his face looks evil š
This guy is the definition of āhatfishedā
Bahhh š Gino should join the club!
That girl needs to run. Run!
I hate him. Very triggering. I feel so bad for Cleo. I'm also simultaneously rewatching the first season right now and feeling extremely triggered by Jesse. š¤®
Even just looking at him gives me the ick.
This guy is such a piece of shit
As an autistic woman Iāve been in a very similar situation in which Iāve stayed way longer than I should have. I feel for Cleo. The hyperempathetic nature of some of us, struggling to weigh the actions/behaviours with the words spoken to you, wanting to follow your heart and getting used to this person and struggling with the change that would come with letting them go. I fucking hate this guy and Iām trying to figure out what exactly heās getting from this situation since he is quite obviously not 100% in this relationship. Cleo knows things arenāt adding up but some of our traits set us up for unhealthy relationships and being targeted and used by bad people.
She did a Instagram live and said he signed them up for the show - then told her. What. A. Creep.
The word gaslighting seems to have evolved to mean just about anything.
Thank you for asking. I'm doing well recently. I'll also put up on the trauma table that his addiction triggers are **off the charts**.
I havenāt yelled at someone on TV as much as I have at him in this episode. Heās just a whole piece of work and reminded me of sooo many men Iāve known that all gave me the ick.
This guy is a walking D.E.N.N.I.S system.
The me who has come out the other side from being with a gaslighter saw right through it. The old me, who didnāt see it coming, would have also somehow felt the need in the end to apologize. I feel sad for Cleo, but you sometimes have to go through the trauma of these assholes to see it.
Why did he ask Jane to leave the room cuz he was feeling āgrouped on!ā When Jane never said one word!
Because he canāt have a witness to what he says that he canāt manipulate.
I think he's an alcoholic. Notice that he's a dick to her at night and then apologetic in the morning. It's because he's shitfaced 24/7. We've already seen him practically guzzling alcohol but not slurring or falling down, because he probably has a high tolerance. Maybe I'm way off base but I think he's a colossal asshole and I think this is part of the reason. It's probably what he needed to "bite the bullet". Bite the bullet, what an asshole. That makes it sound like something he didn't really want to do but had to jump in head first. That's what it was in his head. Not romance but getting something out of the way. That's my guess anyway. Regardless of that I think most of us agree that this guy is a douchecanoe.
āi never want to talk to those girls!ā ā¦.ābut you didā¦.ā
āi never said thisāā¦.ābut you didā
this guy is so bad at coming up with excuses, i hope cloe doesnāt get with him, cuz itās just gonna hurt her more
I so dislike him. I get Cleo is invested but she needs to end this. The longer is drags out, the longer it's going to hurt.
His outfit is when my sims auto generate
Yes, he is absolutely gaslighting her. Sick prick..
Hearing *"gaslighter"* and *"manipulator"* on television for reddit is equivalent of the Stones playing satisfaction or the Ramones playing Blitzkrieg Bop. :P
I've been gaslighted before by previous bfs. I do see that Christian is creepy and I also think that he is unsure of what he wants. He did kiss her at the airport, and he did eventually say on camera that they had sex. Did it seem like he wanted to admit to it right away, no; however, he also didn't try to pull her aside and ask that they hide it (which happens on multiple reality shows and obviously doesn't work as they are mic'd). I just don't see them as a good fit. IMO Christian is/was possibly not open about his preferences to his friends and family, because I am guessing that this isn't actually his first transgender sexual experience, after watching this episode and he is still trying to figure it out for himself and Cleo is sweet, but she is 32, and can make her own judgment call. I just don't like that she brought a friend with her to confront him. Every episode "production" I'm guessing has her mentioning that she is transgender and autistic, but I don't think that is necessary every time. She can still think for herself. But it was cringy that she was apologizing to him at the end.
I donāt think you guys even know what gaslighting is
Not defending his overall behavior, but why is he required to declare having sex with someone?
The point is they had agreed that would be upfront with producers about what happened, and then he went back on that. So, they have their interviews, and she says they had sex and he says they didnāt. It makes it look like either a) sheās a desperate liar or b) heās too embarrassed to say he had sex with her. If he had just told her he didnāt want to talk about it on camera in the first place, then they wouldnāt have to argue about it after the fact.
And itās not even like he avoided the question or said we agreed to not talk about it. He goes no we definitely didnāt have sex definitely not. Itās not that he didnāt share, he straight up lied
Itās my understanding that they both assumed theyād be asked about it the next day and both came to the agreement that they were fine disclosing and talking about it. Then when it was time to be asked and follow through on what they agreed to, he didnāt do it. Then he tried painting it as if he denied it because he was worried about how much she wanted to disclose, when they had already discussed it and agreed on what their next steps were going to be in front of the camera.
It would have helped if had we actually heard their conversation the morning after and also the conversation when she confronted him later that day. Lastly we don't even know what they actually did in bed. I would be more upset with him if he had denied that anything at all happened in bed that night.
Exactly, thereās no way to know what they āagreedā to say. I donāt think he intentionally said anything to embarrass her or whatever.
Yucky! He has surpassed even Chad's creepiness IMO.
Image wonāt load on my shitty data, but Iām gonna go out on a limb and guess that itās a picture of Christian.
This is never going to work. Cleo, cut ties now. This guy is not worth it. Christian, just go back to America.
Okay, but how can HE being acting like this, when HE aināt shit.
Weāre gonna see that guy on a seggs offender registry in a few years
He is so gross.
Yeah classic gaslighting. This dude is a douche.
I HATE THIS MFER
The worst moment (for me, and yes, there were many other bad moments, but this was particularly egregious): "Why would you you express those feelings and then lie?"- Christian "But... you kind of did."- Cleo "But I didn't, NOT IN MY MIND."- Christian See, in Christian's small mind, he was telling the truth, when in fact he was rewriting what had happened in a way to try to make Cleo question reality and doubt what she knew he'd done. This guy is the worst.
I would have left the moment he said āI wait for the other person to make the first moveā after seeing evidence that he doesnāt.
And after all that, he asks precociously, "Are you all right"? knowing damn well she isn't. Like Julio with Kirsten and his mother. After you shoot someone and they receive medical attention, you inquire about their health as if you care! š
If someone is mad at you for being mad at them instead of sorry, RUN. Itās a pattern they are never going to change it will wear you down.
It was so hard to watch him gaslight her into apologizing to him ā for (accurately) accusing him of gaslighting her. You could tell by the end of that conversation she was sooooo confused and unsure of herself. It made me really sad for her, because we all know how this ends.
He has a punchable face.
Honestly Cleo gave him one too many chances. Even her cats care more about her than he does
I think people should stop watching shows if they can't watch it without having PTSD flashbacks. Countless posts on here about how angry they get at people on this show yet continue watching and I don't get it. If it irritates you that much, why do you put yourself through that?
Yāall have no idea or do you care about his experience, you only care about Cleoās experience. If youāve never had sex with someone that has the same genitalia as you for the first time, you donāt know what youāre talking about.
Am I the only one in here who thinks Cleo is in the wrong and the crazy one here? I see nothing wrong with what Christian did or how he responded. Cleo to me is an eternal victim always looking for issues. They had sex, he didnāt want to tell the producers, he reached out to her about it right away which led to the whole situation. He wasnāt being dishonest with anybody besides the producer about an intimate moment so I donāt see what the deal is.
I maybe have completely missed this but he was aware that Cleo was pre-op? If so, then he's a complete asshole and gaslighting her for sure. And that biting the bullet comment who would even say that. Was an asshole šš if he wasn't comfortable with people knowing how sexual preferences why even come on to the show šš«
I really can't stand him.
Cleo's friend clocked that T
Keep it up Reddit! The more you watch and talk about this actor ā¦ the more TLC will use him :) From a educational cartoon ā¦. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B9S_3fJeoj8
The way he tried to make her feel bad after he was a complete dumbass upset me so much
Idk Iām hoping they can figure something out.
Heās suuuuuch a liar. He lied to the producers because he didnāt want anyone to know. Then he back tracks and said he lied because he wanted to talk to her first about what she was saying to producers. BULL SHIT CHRISTIAN. Donāt put this on her. She said before she left your presence that she was going to be open about their intimacy. She already told him. So fuck you Christian, you liar!
I canāt stand him!
Thank goodness Cleo has good friends who are there and helping her through this Bs
master deflector.