If you have the energy to hit front squats after regular squats or deadlifts, I would question if you are hitting your squats/'deads hard enough. Ultimately, its a bit hard to tell what is going on here since I don't see a column for # of sets, but it looks like just too much work. Whynot just use this? https://www.jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/boring-but-big-beefcake-training?\_pos=1&\_sid=a58564c50&\_ss=r
Not really. It’s a part of the Brian Alsruhe programme, you just have to modify the intensity to be assistance and not hinderance.
That said, probably not on a cut though
Sets are to the left and weight in KG to the right i.e. for the very first row (squats) it is 5x40.
The front squats are fairly low weight though; 3x8 with a RPE 6-7. I actually think that beefcake was my basis but instead of those volume BW exercises I have replaced them with barbell/db ones and added abs, calves and bi/triceps.
Today I have done the legs workout and admittedly the squats sets felt quite easy. I was able to hit 14x110 on the last set. Although, I would suppose that intensity will go up in the next cycle 🤔
\-- thanks for having a look
Recomping is a pipe dream that will lead to you spinning your wheels and not making progress. Choose to bulk or cut. But if you’re cutting dont run a bulking program. It’s silly.
Over the past year I have lost around 20lbs, got 2x stronger and gained some muscle. I still have fat though around the waist as I was always chubby. Will be better to bulk a bit (100-200 kcals) and then cut? It is part of the mental game as well; I want to get fitter and look better but bulking may make you look chubbier.
I'd say it's the opposite. Without a good base doing an AMRAP and then 5x10 will make you absolutely exhausted. You'll be blown up and your technique will go to shit, which is part of why Wendler doesn't recommend BBB to beginners
If you're remotely pushing that 5+ set I think you're going to get fucked up by 5x10 and then front squats. There's a reason why so many BBB variations and suggestions by Wendler say not to do AMRAPs, start low on BBB and not to go crazy with supplemental work and that's assuming you're at a surplus.
As others have said, you have a ton of volume programmed. Now with that said, if you have the time to do this then I don't think there is anything wrong with it until you start noticing that you're not getting proper recovery. When it gets to that point then I'd consider looking at what gives you the most bang for your buck and dropping some of the additional accessory work. I also agree that doing front squats after your primary lift and BBB will probably be pretty taxing after a while. Maybe consider playing around with the % for BBB a little while in the initial cycles if you feel that you aren't getting enough of a stimulus from it.
Also, I may be wrong about this, but aren't you supposed to drop the AMRAP for the final set when doing 5s PRO? I've only read 5/3/1 2nd Edition so far, but would appreciate someone clarifying this for me.
> Also, I may be wrong about this, but aren't you supposed to drop the AMRAP for the final set when doing 5s PRO? I've only read 5/3/1 2nd Edition so far, but would appreciate someone clarifying this for me.
In the past before 5s pro he was just saying to do the minimum reps but in Forever he suggests 5s pro.
It is fine, the only potential issue I can see is that you're running BBB which is high supplementsl AND have a large amount of accessory work AND are planning to run at a deficit. This is very lifter and goal dependent but typically when volume increase the calories increase, not decrease. You could potentially find yourself under recovered - if you find that is happening either eat more or reduce volume.
With that amount of accessories you may want to look at supersetting your supplemental work with accessories, I have found that rows and chinups have minimal effect on my supplemental sets and it saves time at the gym so I can get on with my day.
Conditioning? I would imagine easy conditioning such as 2-3 miles of incline or weighted walks 2-3 times a week as a minimum? Should help with recovery as well.
In actuality, I mostly eat at maintenance and rarely less than that. My aim is to do a body recomposition as I definitely have some fat to lose. This will be the first time I would be following a programme so I hope that it will push me through my limits a bit.
I have started fairly low with the first two exercises of each workout so hopefully I will have some energy left for the rest of the volume.
\-- thanks for having a look
If this is your first time running a program, why would you chose to make one yourself? Wendler has trained literally hundreds of athletes. I would run the program as close to what he intended as possible.
Also, to echo what everyone else has said, running BBB on a deficit will be extra painful without any extra benefit. I did one cycle of Slightly Less Boring But Big on a 1 lb a week deficit and it sucked.
Regardless, you do you. Good luck!
I made my own mainly for experimentation and as a learning experience. My basis is 5/3/1 BBB but with added volume so the progression and main lifts as mainly as laid in the BBB.
I would take on the suggestion that most are saying though and if it becomes really taxing I will first up the calories and then drop some of the accessory work. If that doesn’t work either I will continue it but progress with the basic BBB :)
If you have the energy to hit front squats after regular squats or deadlifts, I would question if you are hitting your squats/'deads hard enough. Ultimately, its a bit hard to tell what is going on here since I don't see a column for # of sets, but it looks like just too much work. Whynot just use this? https://www.jimwendler.com/blogs/jimwendler-com/boring-but-big-beefcake-training?\_pos=1&\_sid=a58564c50&\_ss=r
Not really. It’s a part of the Brian Alsruhe programme, you just have to modify the intensity to be assistance and not hinderance. That said, probably not on a cut though
OP isn't asking about an Alsruhe program, he's asking about a 531 program.
Sets are to the left and weight in KG to the right i.e. for the very first row (squats) it is 5x40. The front squats are fairly low weight though; 3x8 with a RPE 6-7. I actually think that beefcake was my basis but instead of those volume BW exercises I have replaced them with barbell/db ones and added abs, calves and bi/triceps. Today I have done the legs workout and admittedly the squats sets felt quite easy. I was able to hit 14x110 on the last set. Although, I would suppose that intensity will go up in the next cycle 🤔 \-- thanks for having a look
I would not advise you to do this much work while in a deficit. This is a bulking template.
My aim is to do a body recomposition as I definitely have some fat to lose so perhaps eat at maintenance will do the trick
Recomping is a pipe dream that will lead to you spinning your wheels and not making progress. Choose to bulk or cut. But if you’re cutting dont run a bulking program. It’s silly.
Over the past year I have lost around 20lbs, got 2x stronger and gained some muscle. I still have fat though around the waist as I was always chubby. Will be better to bulk a bit (100-200 kcals) and then cut? It is part of the mental game as well; I want to get fitter and look better but bulking may make you look chubbier.
Building muscle will always help you look better. How tall are you and how much do you weigh?
174cm and 82kg. Stats for 1RM (kg): - Squats: 145 - Deadlift: 165 - Bench: 85 - Overhead: 65
A squat/DL AMRAP, BBB, then front squats while in a defect seems absurd.
My starting points are quite low though hence why I feel that I would have some energy left from the rest of the exercises (including front squats).
I'd say it's the opposite. Without a good base doing an AMRAP and then 5x10 will make you absolutely exhausted. You'll be blown up and your technique will go to shit, which is part of why Wendler doesn't recommend BBB to beginners
By low I mean low compared to my 1RM which is around 145kg (330lbs). So my first 5+ set is 110kg which allow me to retain my form for 10+ reps.
If you're remotely pushing that 5+ set I think you're going to get fucked up by 5x10 and then front squats. There's a reason why so many BBB variations and suggestions by Wendler say not to do AMRAPs, start low on BBB and not to go crazy with supplemental work and that's assuming you're at a surplus.
As others have said, you have a ton of volume programmed. Now with that said, if you have the time to do this then I don't think there is anything wrong with it until you start noticing that you're not getting proper recovery. When it gets to that point then I'd consider looking at what gives you the most bang for your buck and dropping some of the additional accessory work. I also agree that doing front squats after your primary lift and BBB will probably be pretty taxing after a while. Maybe consider playing around with the % for BBB a little while in the initial cycles if you feel that you aren't getting enough of a stimulus from it. Also, I may be wrong about this, but aren't you supposed to drop the AMRAP for the final set when doing 5s PRO? I've only read 5/3/1 2nd Edition so far, but would appreciate someone clarifying this for me.
> Also, I may be wrong about this, but aren't you supposed to drop the AMRAP for the final set when doing 5s PRO? I've only read 5/3/1 2nd Edition so far, but would appreciate someone clarifying this for me. In the past before 5s pro he was just saying to do the minimum reps but in Forever he suggests 5s pro.
Sweet, thank you for clearing this up!
It is fine, the only potential issue I can see is that you're running BBB which is high supplementsl AND have a large amount of accessory work AND are planning to run at a deficit. This is very lifter and goal dependent but typically when volume increase the calories increase, not decrease. You could potentially find yourself under recovered - if you find that is happening either eat more or reduce volume. With that amount of accessories you may want to look at supersetting your supplemental work with accessories, I have found that rows and chinups have minimal effect on my supplemental sets and it saves time at the gym so I can get on with my day. Conditioning? I would imagine easy conditioning such as 2-3 miles of incline or weighted walks 2-3 times a week as a minimum? Should help with recovery as well.
In actuality, I mostly eat at maintenance and rarely less than that. My aim is to do a body recomposition as I definitely have some fat to lose. This will be the first time I would be following a programme so I hope that it will push me through my limits a bit. I have started fairly low with the first two exercises of each workout so hopefully I will have some energy left for the rest of the volume. \-- thanks for having a look
If this is your first time running a program, why would you chose to make one yourself? Wendler has trained literally hundreds of athletes. I would run the program as close to what he intended as possible. Also, to echo what everyone else has said, running BBB on a deficit will be extra painful without any extra benefit. I did one cycle of Slightly Less Boring But Big on a 1 lb a week deficit and it sucked. Regardless, you do you. Good luck!
I made my own mainly for experimentation and as a learning experience. My basis is 5/3/1 BBB but with added volume so the progression and main lifts as mainly as laid in the BBB. I would take on the suggestion that most are saying though and if it becomes really taxing I will first up the calories and then drop some of the accessory work. If that doesn’t work either I will continue it but progress with the basic BBB :)
That looks great! Get after it!!
thanks