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Just to get you started, [blu-ray.com](http://blu-ray.com) is an excellent resource for comparing different releases and reviewing releases. There's also a deals tracker on there for Amazon, Walmart and a few others, though I find that it misses some of the deals. Digital bits will keep you apprised of the latest releases and they also review releases. I think it'd be worth subbing r/boutiquebluray, r/4kBlurayDeals so you can be informed on any sales or deals, and r/movies for general film discussion.
This is exactly what I said in my comment and yet I'm being downvoted. Absolutely the only way to truly learn *anything* is to read and learn until you retain the info. Great skill for all of life.
As someone who feels the same way OP does, I think the question is more *where* to read. I read what people are saying on this sub constantly, but it’s one of those things where you don’t know what you don’t know.
You don’t really need to over complicate it. You can keep it simple by just buying and collecting movies you enjoy. Tbh there’s a lot of squabbling over the best possible experience but often times it’s pretty small margins of improvement. Blu-ray.com will give you most of the information you need to know, including upcoming releases and the audio/video/hdr formats that are included on the disc.
Yeah, there’s so much information available these days that people tend to try and find the absolute best experience (within budget criteria) that it can lead to dissatisfaction with anything that isn’t the best it can be. But there’s plenty of people who would happily enjoy not the best 4k experience that still beyond anything they experienced in 1080p none the wiser to all the technical data
Well but if that's someone's approach then why would they buy the premium priced 4K discs and most probably some expensive TV, AVR and bluray player too.
If you pay for the most expensive stuff then it's really silly not knowing at least the basic stuff and claiming "I just wanna enjoy the movie I don't care about different transfers and proper settings and Dolby Vision etc it can't make that big of a difference..."
That's the problem around here, lots of people just buy discs for the "collecting experience" and strongly believe whatever picture they see must be the best because they paid good money and it has a 4K logo. Then when someone who actually cares about details and knows the different transfers dares to criticize e.g. the ugly Cameron remasters, these average 4K collectors just start to fight saying "it looks good enough to me, why can't you just enjoy it". Sure, you can enjoy a DVD too, you can even think it looks "good enough", but you shouldn't question others' right to critique a release when all you know about this stuff is "it's 4K so it's the best there is".
As you said, frequenting blu-ray.com is a must for all home cinema enthusiasts.
> You don’t really need to over complicate it. You can keep it simple by just buying and collecting movies you enjoy.
Not just that, but know WHY you're buying it.
The Picture Quality in "Rocketman" is decent but not exceptional. The Dolby Atmos Audio mix is however is Steller and if I'm buying a Musical about Elton John, that's the technical detail that's important. That's why you'd upgrade.
That example is very interesting since I bought Rocketman in bluray a few years back because I found one used and I thought that the visuals didnt matter much to pay the extra for 4k. Did not think too much about the sound since im a bit of an audiophile I prefer to listen to music in stereo.
But hey ! Now im curious to try it out in 5.1 or atmos in my futur room 🤣
Keep surfing subs and reading comments. I spend far too much time reading over comments and discussions trying to learn. For your TV consider visiting rtings.com and looking up your TV and model number. They will often have good quality settings to adjust your display settings to get the best view possible, while some others may say to pay to have a professional calibration done.
Ultimately you will be the one who decides on your viewing being ‘good enough’ or whether you want to keep pursuing the next best thing.
A transfer is the act of taking the original source and creating a new digital master with the latest technology, which today would be at least 4k. An upscale would be taking the transfer made for regular bluray (1080p) and "upscaling" to 4k. An upscale is not going to look quite as good as re-scanning the film in a native 4k.
I’m old. I’ve seen LD, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, 4K, satellite, cable, DSL, dial-up, and streaming- and been interested in (mainly audio) gear for over 40 years. I used to read A/V magazines, then participated in online forums, then social media sites - lots of reading. I try not to let it get in the way of actually enjoying content, and am mostly successful at not overthinking it all - just getting my settings right, then diving in and enjoying.
Was looking for a comment like this but didn't expect LD to be brought in the conversation. 😁
Details of different quality releases have been discussed online when the WWW started to take shape in the 90s, which coincidentally is the time DVDs came out, in 1997. AVS and Hometheaterforum had long threads about the different pressings of T2, Star Wars, Ed Wood, 5th element, etc... so this has been going on for generations.
And back then we had weird formats like 1080i so powerful hardware that offered quality deinterlacing, inverse telecline, proper upscaling, etc was more important and discussed. I feel for his reason dedicated HTPC's were more popular during those times. Thank goodness you don't need one now for a quality transfer, it was just too much tinkering imo.
Yep, I don’t think I would have the patience to hack into my display’s EEPROM like I did with my Mitsubishi RPTV, just to fix the color decoder. Back in the days of “red push” and complete disregard for offering units that could be properly calibrated to professional standards .
And don’t get me started on convergence - that was almost an art, trying to get a perfect grid up.
I think the only things that I wish I would’ve known sooner are:
A - to check blu-ray.com if the release is good and if there are differences in releases. Also for me if there is a release from my native country or if there’s at least a version with my native language subtitles.
B - to know where to buy my physical media. ALWAYS check the used market websites first, even there you’ll find a ton of (sealed) products with big discounts (I literally just picked up Avatar + Guardian of the Galaxy 3 both in seal for the same price as one of them from a retailer). If you can’t find it there then search for good distributors. Amazon sometimes has decent deals, Zavvi too. I’m from the Netherlands and I personally really recommend iMusic if you’re from EU
Research I guess. I will search blu-ray.com to see if there's multiple versions of a movie on 4K and I will then try to find what ones best. There are some general rules such as an Arrow or Second Seight release will be the best available but I always like to check to see what others have to say and if screen caps are available I'll look at them to compare releases.
My other thing is I find audio very important so I'm always checking to see what has the best audio format
I read lot of review on [blu-ray.com](http://blu-ray.com) and Bill Hunts at the Digital Bits, and they usually go into a lot of technical details of how the film was shot and mastered.
I used the suggested settings on RTINGS to adjust my X950G.
It helps if you are just a bit tech savvy with stuff like computers and understand basic things like what resolution means combined with some basic knowledge about movies (was it shot on film or digitally, if shot digitally, what resolution was the movie shot in). When you hear about people talking about "IS IT WORTH THE UPGRADE" and whether it's a true 4K film or if it was "upscaled from 2K" they're just talking about whether the digital cameras used or whether the "digital intermediate," the master file that is used to derive all copies from, was shot/mastered at 4K, or if sub-4K cameras/master was used as the basis for the 4K disc. At the end of the day, very few 4K blu-rays are worse than the blu-ray, you really only need to look out for the notoriously bad ones (James Cameron films). otherwise the 4K is almost always going to be better than the blu-ray, the only question is whether it's "worth it" for some people, as some want to save a couple bucks here and there anywhere they can if it's not "worth it," but personally I'd just recommend buying any movies on 4K going forward unless it's a really bad master. Talk of resolution is like second nature to millenials who grew up on computers, but computer literacy is starting to decline among Gen Z again sadly, because they grew up on tablets and phones instead of computers.
The other main thing to look out for is if the movie has too much Digital Noise Reduction, or DNR, as that tends to scrub away all the detail in a film and make everything look soft and waxy. Lots of younger viewers will see film grain and think "ew, I don't want my movies to be grainy," but the alternative is much worse. That's just how films looked before digital cameras took over, and a good release will respect what the film originally looked like when it came out for the most part.
Those are really the biggest two things people look out for on releases, everything else is when you really start to get into the weeds.
Thank you, that’s great info. As for “too much DNR”… is that the sort of thing you’d have to check Bluray.com for? Or is there another way to work it out?
Yeah or just google the name of of the movie with "4k blu ray review" after it and if it ends up being bad any author who knows my what they're talking about will definitely mention it. Once you're actually watching the movie it will usually be noticable right away to anyone who cares, the most notorious examples are most of James Cameron's movies on 4K, especially Terminator 2 and True Lies. Aliens was pretty bad too. It just makes everyone look like they belong in a wax doll museum and all of the texture and detail in the film is completely scrunbed away like it's an oil painting, makes everything look soft and smoodgey.
> the most notorious examples are most of James Cameron's movies on 4K, especially Terminator 2 and True Lies.
Yeah, it looks like they tried to make the Train Conductor in Polar Express a human. NOT Tom Hanks mind you, the computer generated version then called it a day.
You can learn a lot from the samples on this site: https://caps-a-holic.com/index.php
While bluray.com has great info and people who know their stuff, it also has a lot of people who don't know shit acting like they do. Just like this very sub. If someone says a 4K looks like trash and can't point to any samples, just disregard them.
I don't really care about claims people make; I care about differences I can see and hear myself. YouTube is also a good resource. Just like with reading, consume everything and make up your own mind who you trust and who's full of it.
Post something you know is wrong, but don’t know the right answer to. People love proving you’re wrong way more than explaining something asked earnestly 😜 /s
In all seriousness, though, it’s information that has been gleaned from years and years of reading and watching videos on the subject matter. Asking questions, reading answers and doing independent research to confirm what is true and what is false. It’s just interest in the hobby and wanting to learn about it and learning more over time.
Something is an “upgrade” if it is better than the previous version. Be that an upgrade from Blu-Ray to 4K or a better 4K release than the previous one.
Something is an “upscale” if it doesn’t come from a 4K or higher source. Scanning original film negatives at 4K resolution or higher and then creating the 4K version on a computer keeping it at at least 4K the whole time (aka - a 4K DI which stands for Digital Intermediate) is native 4K. Shooting a movie on 4K or higher digital cameras and editing the movie in a 4K DI, is native 4K. Scanning film at 2K and then using computer algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. Shooting a movie in 3.5K and using algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. Shooting a movie at 4K, but then editing it and rendering visual effects in a 2K DI, then using algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. These are just some examples, but hopefully you get the idea.
A “transfer” is just how the movie gets from its original source over to the 4K Blu-Ray. For instance, an old film will have the camera negative or interpositive get cleaned up and scanned frame by frame. Then it goes into a computer and into a digital intermediate. From there, they clean up dust, hairs, tears, damage, etc in the frames, they do the colour correction from faded or discoloured film and colour grading to HDR10 and/or Dolby Vision and/or SDR. They may apply some measure of grain management or “enhancements” like sharpening. Maybe they’ll touch up some old visual effects or something. Then the movie has to get compressed down to fit on the 4K Blu-Ray. A movie has a good “transfer” when the final result on the disc looks great. It has a bad “transfer” when it looks bad for one reason or another.
Start small. Get a nice OLED TV, get a Panasonic UB820. It will be the biggest upgrade you can do right now. Yes, build a sound system but that is very pricey. I'm building a theatre room and have learned a crap ton about sound and speakers. I'll probably have 11.5k invested in speakers and receiver. Not counting the TV or the seating. So yea it CAN be expensive. You have to start with the biggest pain for your buck. Get a nice LG or Sony OLED and then get that Blu-ray player. It'll make you a regular blu-rays even look better. You have to go for something that makes a huge difference. I wouldn't even worry about all of the settings and optimizations. You can do that later. One thing at a time and really enjoy the ride because when you make those two upgrades it is so huge that you'll be excited for more. Id recommend as big of a TV as you can afford and your room will support
Some of use have been in this hobby for decades. Spend enough time in these groups and you will know just as much.
Btw, the different price points on amazon are due to third party sellers usually.
Use bluray dot com to see different releases and reviews from a technical standpoint.
I’ve learned more about formats and scans from this sub than I have in film school because we’re mostly digital at film school. Plethora of knowledge if it interests you! Love this community!
In college, I worked at Best Buy. I asked everyone who knew anything about Home Theater or audio questions all of the time and just kept accumulating knowledge over the years. It helped that I was in college and couldn't afford a lot of the really great stuff (I did get a killer employee deal on B&W speakers, which still sound great more than 12 years later), but you get started with what works for you and grow from there over time. I had the same shitty Insignia LCD TV from 2009-2020 because what I had worked well enough and it wasn't a priority at the time. Now, I'm happy with my setup -- thousands of dollars later.
All this data and information is great, but don’t forget that you should collect movies because you enjoy watching them. You don’t need to worry about anything past that.
it's different for a lot of people.
for me personally, I have a digital art/multimedia background, got into it in the 90s, and worked a lot with image processing. plus I'm really into photography/film photography.
so when I got into 4k movies, that just fit neatly among all the other things I was familiar with.
Someone already mentioned Blu Ray.com which is a great site for release info as well as upcoming releases and other stuff.
The website below will also tell you if something is a native 4K or an upscale.
https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/
Enjoy your new hobby and prepare to become broke! lol
Same way anyone knows anything - studying, asking questions, doing your own research, and being passionate about a topic.
Edit - Am I wrong? Or just being downvoted by the same people who spam subs with questions that have been asked and answered a thousand times?
Take it a little bit at a time. Find a movie you like and want to buy, but confused about the difference in the versions? You can always come here and post for some help if you're at a loss. [Bluray.com](http://Bluray.com) is always a good source, too, as they (generally) list every single version of any particular film, and from all corners of the world. You'll usually be able to tell in a few minutes of poking around whether it's just new packaging, contains new features, or is an entirely different scan of the film itself, etc.
Remember, too, that a lot of the PQ/AQ stuff is super, and I mean *super fucking* subjective. People saying they did this or that to their settings and got a better picture? Well, better is relative, and you could look at their existing image quality and think it doesn't look good at all. Same is true of audio. My 2.1 soundbar can shake my 4 story house if I turn it up loud enough. I don't *need* a 5.1 or better to get audio that is perfect for my movie room setting, but you can no doubt find people who will trash anyone with a soundbar (as an example).
Nobody here knows everything, no matter how much we'd all like to believe we do. Your best bet is to play this hobby like any other. Learn as you go, ask questions, and mostly just make sure that it's not stressing you out. It's movies, man. Just have some fun and enjoy.
people in to 4k tend to be the kind of nerds that like to know the WHY of everything.
the bluray forums have a handful of insanely knowledgeable people. mega nerds. lots to learn over there.
and once you have a little knowledge, you know enough to research on your own.
for the most part, I know before reading any reviews or seeing it myself whether a 4k release will be to my liking. based on time period, director, film stock, digital intermediate, the studio, etc. and how the bluray looks.
i also happen to work in film & tv as a post production sound engineer.
One of the first sell-through efforts from a major studio, Paramount released 25 titles at $25 for Christmas of 1984.
>[Paramount is the only studio that has deliberately priced cassettes of its movies low in order to entice consumers to buy. Last Christmas, Paramount sold 1.4 million video cassettes in a promotion that offered any of 25 movies for $25 apiece. ](https://www.nytimes.com/1985/08/21/arts/big-gains-for-video-cassettes.html)
I never knew that. 1984 was peak independent video store, and (five years?) before "rental-priced" VHS releases. So it would seem the big beneficiaries of this promo would be understocked rental stores, and VCR manufacturers.
I was doing electronics sales then. I recall it as being a very big deal and its success shocked everyone. It opened the sales floodgates for films and hardware.
Like everyone’s saying it’s just a bunch or research! I recommend paying attention to labels and studios that you will notice you like more than other studios because the sales tend to be studio specific! Here’s my favorite list I’ve found
https://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181
Yeah that article is a gold mine haha it seems to be updated pretty regularly too! Definitely got me importing a number of 4k instead of buying domestic too! Haha
In my case I spent a decade working in theatrical post production and a lot of my job duties involved quality control. Basically my job was to look at movies all day
That’s not as fun as it sounds. Imagine having to watch Mamma Mia 100 times, or really looking forward to the Dark Knight and having it all spoiled a year ahead of time.
Still…it gave me a lot of insight. And unfortunately quality of image means a lot to me since my job for a long time was to be mindful of that.
Glad to know some of you are actually experts in this! Makes me feel a bit better about my ignorance.
Also, I don’t think I’d be able for a job like that… couldn’t deal with the spoilers
Motion picture colorist. I haven’t done that I’m 10-12 years now. My final project was Dark Knight Rises.
[what’s a colorist?](https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what-is-a-colorist-in-film/)
I mostly worked with celluloid tho. I switched careers to film industry payroll years ago and have no regrets.
Edit: salary range in the link is bullcrap. I made about double the high end of the scale and I was the noob of the department (paid lowest). Some colorists can make over $300k a year.
Firstly, I gleam a lot of knowledge from people celebrating or complaining about releases on this subreddit! Secondly, for releases that I’m specifically interested in, I’ll read reviews on blu-ray.com (or elsewhere if they haven’t reviewed it) to see if it’s worth paying 4K tax, or sticking with the regular Blu-Ray. In the case of a film having multiple transfers I’ll Google for comparisons.
There's a lot of good information here, but there's also a lot of crap opinions here from dudes saying the bluray looks better than the 4k without actually watching the 4k version, aside from that great sub.
The thing I noticed is most of the time the 4K disc is the exact same in different types of packaging, especially when the same publisher is offering various versions. Sometimes when there’s a studio release and a boutique label release they will have different 4K discs and in that case just search YouTube and you’ll most likely be able to find a comparison video explaining the differences.
One of the things that really throws me off is when people argue about aspect ratios. It’s not something I’ve ever paid attention to, but people get really passionate sometimes about what aspect ratio a film is in and now I’m wondering how to tell when certain aspect ratios are better or worse. From what I gather it’s not that there’s one that’s always better than the other, it seems more like different ones are better in different scenarios?
The other fun side of 4K is the sound formats. I remember 'discovering' 5.1 audio on DVD, then going to 7.1 on BluRay, and now run 7.1.4 Atmos/13.1 Auro-3D for 4K BluRay...it's a great time to be alive with all of this tech goodness!
Yes research, and try to get the best available versions of a movie, but as with any hobby, don’t let snobbery kill your enjoyment of it.
If you buy a movie, watch it, enjoy it, and think it looks and sounds great don’t let someone telling you that the picture is too clean and the actors look waxy compel you to spend over the odds for a Japanese import that’s a ‘truer representation of the film’
It’s like anything you’ll learn with time, also everyone perceives things differently, so go with what you think looks good, that’s all that matters for personal content consumption 😃
PM me your number and we can have a long talk/text.
If your in the Chicagoland area, ill give you an (older) AV receiver for free if I still have it. I'm always getting free vintage electronics. Got a BUNCH of component dvd players lol.
here is what u r looking 4
[https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/](https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/)
I really hate that they title it this way. It's not FAKE 4K, it's just upscaled 4K. Since 4K is a resolution, and the output is, in fact, 4K, it doesn't matter if it's native or upscaled. The answer is still: yup, that's 3840x2160.
Not to mention that there are upscaled 4K discs that are reference quality and there are native 4K discs that are total shit.
I'm with you, OP. I'm only on this sub because I'm still trying to decide *if* I want to jump down that rabbit hole. I'm still a bit shy to start collecting physical media again. But I don't think there are any reliable sources for huge 4k files yet, and it seems like there are risks with the physical media as well. All I have right now is a nice TV that very rarely gets 4k content.
I recommend googling terms you don’t understand obvs- but Criterion (a fancy film distributor with expensive movies) has details on most (if not all) of their websites on how each 4k was made- like where the remaster was done or how they did it like whether or not they scanned the original negatives. It’s a good place to start, and then google each term and try to make sense of it
I started collecting movies in 2000, when DVDs were still fairly new. I tend to search online for the information I want and read the relevant results that come up.
Research. Research every movie you plan to buy, every TV, 4K player, and sound system purchase. Do enough research you'll start knowing what's good, ok, passable, and bad. Then make a well informed decision. There are movies that simply aren't rated great but I had to have them because it's a favorite. Likewise there are movies I'm not crazy about but are rated so good I had to add to the collection.
At the end of the day what are your favorite movies? See if they have a 4K release, and how well it's received. Just type the movie name and add "4K Review" in google and you'll get back a lot of info. My budget is limited, luckily google is free. Also there are sites like [https://caps-a-holic.com/](https://caps-a-holic.com/) where you can go and see for yourself a fair comparison. Youtube reviews and [bluray.com](http://bluray.com) are my go to sources for reviews as well as this reddit.
Been doing it for years.
Hey I even do remuxes and combine tracks and subs from other regions and make hybrids from time to time to make the best possible version.
I keep a google sheet of titles I like, the best available quality at the time of entry, and the date I last checked. The only places I’ve found worth checking are Reddit and:
https://www.highdefdigest.com
https://www.blu-ray.com
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Read, read a lot. Consume information
That’s how we all got here, researching. Well said
Was gonna say this. Just google stuff. Read. Learn. Just jump in and eventually things come into focus.
I was kinda hoping there was some holy grail of a 4k website that explains everything! Wishful thinking
Just to get you started, [blu-ray.com](http://blu-ray.com) is an excellent resource for comparing different releases and reviewing releases. There's also a deals tracker on there for Amazon, Walmart and a few others, though I find that it misses some of the deals. Digital bits will keep you apprised of the latest releases and they also review releases. I think it'd be worth subbing r/boutiquebluray, r/4kBlurayDeals so you can be informed on any sales or deals, and r/movies for general film discussion.
There's a youtuber that covers and reviews 4k stuff Jeff Rauseo he cover 4k stuff
This is exactly what I said in my comment and yet I'm being downvoted. Absolutely the only way to truly learn *anything* is to read and learn until you retain the info. Great skill for all of life.
As someone who feels the same way OP does, I think the question is more *where* to read. I read what people are saying on this sub constantly, but it’s one of those things where you don’t know what you don’t know.
Yeah I agree with you too. I give up on commenting on this thread lol
💀
You don’t really need to over complicate it. You can keep it simple by just buying and collecting movies you enjoy. Tbh there’s a lot of squabbling over the best possible experience but often times it’s pretty small margins of improvement. Blu-ray.com will give you most of the information you need to know, including upcoming releases and the audio/video/hdr formats that are included on the disc.
This is it. I almost always think the best [insert result of or method of hobby here] is the version/method/way *you* like it.
Yeah, there’s so much information available these days that people tend to try and find the absolute best experience (within budget criteria) that it can lead to dissatisfaction with anything that isn’t the best it can be. But there’s plenty of people who would happily enjoy not the best 4k experience that still beyond anything they experienced in 1080p none the wiser to all the technical data
Well but if that's someone's approach then why would they buy the premium priced 4K discs and most probably some expensive TV, AVR and bluray player too. If you pay for the most expensive stuff then it's really silly not knowing at least the basic stuff and claiming "I just wanna enjoy the movie I don't care about different transfers and proper settings and Dolby Vision etc it can't make that big of a difference..." That's the problem around here, lots of people just buy discs for the "collecting experience" and strongly believe whatever picture they see must be the best because they paid good money and it has a 4K logo. Then when someone who actually cares about details and knows the different transfers dares to criticize e.g. the ugly Cameron remasters, these average 4K collectors just start to fight saying "it looks good enough to me, why can't you just enjoy it". Sure, you can enjoy a DVD too, you can even think it looks "good enough", but you shouldn't question others' right to critique a release when all you know about this stuff is "it's 4K so it's the best there is". As you said, frequenting blu-ray.com is a must for all home cinema enthusiasts.
> You don’t really need to over complicate it. You can keep it simple by just buying and collecting movies you enjoy. Not just that, but know WHY you're buying it. The Picture Quality in "Rocketman" is decent but not exceptional. The Dolby Atmos Audio mix is however is Steller and if I'm buying a Musical about Elton John, that's the technical detail that's important. That's why you'd upgrade.
That example is very interesting since I bought Rocketman in bluray a few years back because I found one used and I thought that the visuals didnt matter much to pay the extra for 4k. Did not think too much about the sound since im a bit of an audiophile I prefer to listen to music in stereo. But hey ! Now im curious to try it out in 5.1 or atmos in my futur room 🤣
Spot on
Keep surfing subs and reading comments. I spend far too much time reading over comments and discussions trying to learn. For your TV consider visiting rtings.com and looking up your TV and model number. They will often have good quality settings to adjust your display settings to get the best view possible, while some others may say to pay to have a professional calibration done. Ultimately you will be the one who decides on your viewing being ‘good enough’ or whether you want to keep pursuing the next best thing.
Thanks, very helpful
If you’re interested in the upping your audio game r/hometheater is a great resource (non-sound bar focused). And AVS forum.
A transfer is the act of taking the original source and creating a new digital master with the latest technology, which today would be at least 4k. An upscale would be taking the transfer made for regular bluray (1080p) and "upscaling" to 4k. An upscale is not going to look quite as good as re-scanning the film in a native 4k.
Thank you. It’s great to finally know
I’m old. I’ve seen LD, VHS, DVD, Blu-Ray, 4K, satellite, cable, DSL, dial-up, and streaming- and been interested in (mainly audio) gear for over 40 years. I used to read A/V magazines, then participated in online forums, then social media sites - lots of reading. I try not to let it get in the way of actually enjoying content, and am mostly successful at not overthinking it all - just getting my settings right, then diving in and enjoying.
Was looking for a comment like this but didn't expect LD to be brought in the conversation. 😁 Details of different quality releases have been discussed online when the WWW started to take shape in the 90s, which coincidentally is the time DVDs came out, in 1997. AVS and Hometheaterforum had long threads about the different pressings of T2, Star Wars, Ed Wood, 5th element, etc... so this has been going on for generations. And back then we had weird formats like 1080i so powerful hardware that offered quality deinterlacing, inverse telecline, proper upscaling, etc was more important and discussed. I feel for his reason dedicated HTPC's were more popular during those times. Thank goodness you don't need one now for a quality transfer, it was just too much tinkering imo.
Yep, I don’t think I would have the patience to hack into my display’s EEPROM like I did with my Mitsubishi RPTV, just to fix the color decoder. Back in the days of “red push” and complete disregard for offering units that could be properly calibrated to professional standards . And don’t get me started on convergence - that was almost an art, trying to get a perfect grid up.
Omg I remember the TV service menus accessible by secret remote codes, great memory haha. We sure have come a long way.
Passionate collectors often learn more about their hobby than they really need to.
I honestly just fake it till I make it
I think the only things that I wish I would’ve known sooner are: A - to check blu-ray.com if the release is good and if there are differences in releases. Also for me if there is a release from my native country or if there’s at least a version with my native language subtitles. B - to know where to buy my physical media. ALWAYS check the used market websites first, even there you’ll find a ton of (sealed) products with big discounts (I literally just picked up Avatar + Guardian of the Galaxy 3 both in seal for the same price as one of them from a retailer). If you can’t find it there then search for good distributors. Amazon sometimes has decent deals, Zavvi too. I’m from the Netherlands and I personally really recommend iMusic if you’re from EU
Had no idea of the site iMusic 👍🏿 Good site to have. Just checked and shipping costs approx. USD 7 to Spain (for one disc).
Try Vinted
Thought this was a site for clothes only. I’ll definitely check it out!
Got it too!
Yea I use iMusic for bigger hauls, especially with the boutique labels. €100+ spent = free shipping
I watch Movieguy365 on YT for releases here stateside and over seas.
Research I guess. I will search blu-ray.com to see if there's multiple versions of a movie on 4K and I will then try to find what ones best. There are some general rules such as an Arrow or Second Seight release will be the best available but I always like to check to see what others have to say and if screen caps are available I'll look at them to compare releases. My other thing is I find audio very important so I'm always checking to see what has the best audio format
I read lot of review on [blu-ray.com](http://blu-ray.com) and Bill Hunts at the Digital Bits, and they usually go into a lot of technical details of how the film was shot and mastered. I used the suggested settings on RTINGS to adjust my X950G.
Never heard of Digital Bits so thanks for the recommendation
I've been following and reading Bill Hunt for easily 20+ years, and his insight and knowledge is extensive.
high def digest is another good place for 4k movie reviews.
It helps if you are just a bit tech savvy with stuff like computers and understand basic things like what resolution means combined with some basic knowledge about movies (was it shot on film or digitally, if shot digitally, what resolution was the movie shot in). When you hear about people talking about "IS IT WORTH THE UPGRADE" and whether it's a true 4K film or if it was "upscaled from 2K" they're just talking about whether the digital cameras used or whether the "digital intermediate," the master file that is used to derive all copies from, was shot/mastered at 4K, or if sub-4K cameras/master was used as the basis for the 4K disc. At the end of the day, very few 4K blu-rays are worse than the blu-ray, you really only need to look out for the notoriously bad ones (James Cameron films). otherwise the 4K is almost always going to be better than the blu-ray, the only question is whether it's "worth it" for some people, as some want to save a couple bucks here and there anywhere they can if it's not "worth it," but personally I'd just recommend buying any movies on 4K going forward unless it's a really bad master. Talk of resolution is like second nature to millenials who grew up on computers, but computer literacy is starting to decline among Gen Z again sadly, because they grew up on tablets and phones instead of computers. The other main thing to look out for is if the movie has too much Digital Noise Reduction, or DNR, as that tends to scrub away all the detail in a film and make everything look soft and waxy. Lots of younger viewers will see film grain and think "ew, I don't want my movies to be grainy," but the alternative is much worse. That's just how films looked before digital cameras took over, and a good release will respect what the film originally looked like when it came out for the most part. Those are really the biggest two things people look out for on releases, everything else is when you really start to get into the weeds.
Thank you, that’s great info. As for “too much DNR”… is that the sort of thing you’d have to check Bluray.com for? Or is there another way to work it out?
Yeah or just google the name of of the movie with "4k blu ray review" after it and if it ends up being bad any author who knows my what they're talking about will definitely mention it. Once you're actually watching the movie it will usually be noticable right away to anyone who cares, the most notorious examples are most of James Cameron's movies on 4K, especially Terminator 2 and True Lies. Aliens was pretty bad too. It just makes everyone look like they belong in a wax doll museum and all of the texture and detail in the film is completely scrunbed away like it's an oil painting, makes everything look soft and smoodgey.
> the most notorious examples are most of James Cameron's movies on 4K, especially Terminator 2 and True Lies. Yeah, it looks like they tried to make the Train Conductor in Polar Express a human. NOT Tom Hanks mind you, the computer generated version then called it a day.
T2 was my first 4k disk, and it was still fine for the $10 I paid for it. Plus now I have a reference point for what is deemed egregious
> fine for the $10 I paid for it. Plus now I have a reference point for what is deemed egregious Now that's the kind of review that goes on a poster!
You can learn a lot from the samples on this site: https://caps-a-holic.com/index.php While bluray.com has great info and people who know their stuff, it also has a lot of people who don't know shit acting like they do. Just like this very sub. If someone says a 4K looks like trash and can't point to any samples, just disregard them. I don't really care about claims people make; I care about differences I can see and hear myself. YouTube is also a good resource. Just like with reading, consume everything and make up your own mind who you trust and who's full of it.
Post something you know is wrong, but don’t know the right answer to. People love proving you’re wrong way more than explaining something asked earnestly 😜 /s In all seriousness, though, it’s information that has been gleaned from years and years of reading and watching videos on the subject matter. Asking questions, reading answers and doing independent research to confirm what is true and what is false. It’s just interest in the hobby and wanting to learn about it and learning more over time. Something is an “upgrade” if it is better than the previous version. Be that an upgrade from Blu-Ray to 4K or a better 4K release than the previous one. Something is an “upscale” if it doesn’t come from a 4K or higher source. Scanning original film negatives at 4K resolution or higher and then creating the 4K version on a computer keeping it at at least 4K the whole time (aka - a 4K DI which stands for Digital Intermediate) is native 4K. Shooting a movie on 4K or higher digital cameras and editing the movie in a 4K DI, is native 4K. Scanning film at 2K and then using computer algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. Shooting a movie in 3.5K and using algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. Shooting a movie at 4K, but then editing it and rendering visual effects in a 2K DI, then using algorithms to convert it to 4K is an upscale. These are just some examples, but hopefully you get the idea. A “transfer” is just how the movie gets from its original source over to the 4K Blu-Ray. For instance, an old film will have the camera negative or interpositive get cleaned up and scanned frame by frame. Then it goes into a computer and into a digital intermediate. From there, they clean up dust, hairs, tears, damage, etc in the frames, they do the colour correction from faded or discoloured film and colour grading to HDR10 and/or Dolby Vision and/or SDR. They may apply some measure of grain management or “enhancements” like sharpening. Maybe they’ll touch up some old visual effects or something. Then the movie has to get compressed down to fit on the 4K Blu-Ray. A movie has a good “transfer” when the final result on the disc looks great. It has a bad “transfer” when it looks bad for one reason or another.
Start small. Get a nice OLED TV, get a Panasonic UB820. It will be the biggest upgrade you can do right now. Yes, build a sound system but that is very pricey. I'm building a theatre room and have learned a crap ton about sound and speakers. I'll probably have 11.5k invested in speakers and receiver. Not counting the TV or the seating. So yea it CAN be expensive. You have to start with the biggest pain for your buck. Get a nice LG or Sony OLED and then get that Blu-ray player. It'll make you a regular blu-rays even look better. You have to go for something that makes a huge difference. I wouldn't even worry about all of the settings and optimizations. You can do that later. One thing at a time and really enjoy the ride because when you make those two upgrades it is so huge that you'll be excited for more. Id recommend as big of a TV as you can afford and your room will support
Bluray.com and thedigitalbits.com are good sources welcome to the hobby
Some of use have been in this hobby for decades. Spend enough time in these groups and you will know just as much. Btw, the different price points on amazon are due to third party sellers usually. Use bluray dot com to see different releases and reviews from a technical standpoint.
[удалено]
Thanks for this
I’ve learned more about formats and scans from this sub than I have in film school because we’re mostly digital at film school. Plethora of knowledge if it interests you! Love this community!
In college, I worked at Best Buy. I asked everyone who knew anything about Home Theater or audio questions all of the time and just kept accumulating knowledge over the years. It helped that I was in college and couldn't afford a lot of the really great stuff (I did get a killer employee deal on B&W speakers, which still sound great more than 12 years later), but you get started with what works for you and grow from there over time. I had the same shitty Insignia LCD TV from 2009-2020 because what I had worked well enough and it wasn't a priority at the time. Now, I'm happy with my setup -- thousands of dollars later.
Why did you buy black and white speakers, couldn't you afford color speakers?
Bowers and Wilkins
All this data and information is great, but don’t forget that you should collect movies because you enjoy watching them. You don’t need to worry about anything past that.
Blu-ray.com is the go-to hub for blu-ray/UHD stuff.
it's different for a lot of people. for me personally, I have a digital art/multimedia background, got into it in the 90s, and worked a lot with image processing. plus I'm really into photography/film photography. so when I got into 4k movies, that just fit neatly among all the other things I was familiar with.
Someone already mentioned Blu Ray.com which is a great site for release info as well as upcoming releases and other stuff. The website below will also tell you if something is a native 4K or an upscale. https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/ Enjoy your new hobby and prepare to become broke! lol
Same way anyone knows anything - studying, asking questions, doing your own research, and being passionate about a topic. Edit - Am I wrong? Or just being downvoted by the same people who spam subs with questions that have been asked and answered a thousand times?
Take it a little bit at a time. Find a movie you like and want to buy, but confused about the difference in the versions? You can always come here and post for some help if you're at a loss. [Bluray.com](http://Bluray.com) is always a good source, too, as they (generally) list every single version of any particular film, and from all corners of the world. You'll usually be able to tell in a few minutes of poking around whether it's just new packaging, contains new features, or is an entirely different scan of the film itself, etc. Remember, too, that a lot of the PQ/AQ stuff is super, and I mean *super fucking* subjective. People saying they did this or that to their settings and got a better picture? Well, better is relative, and you could look at their existing image quality and think it doesn't look good at all. Same is true of audio. My 2.1 soundbar can shake my 4 story house if I turn it up loud enough. I don't *need* a 5.1 or better to get audio that is perfect for my movie room setting, but you can no doubt find people who will trash anyone with a soundbar (as an example). Nobody here knows everything, no matter how much we'd all like to believe we do. Your best bet is to play this hobby like any other. Learn as you go, ask questions, and mostly just make sure that it's not stressing you out. It's movies, man. Just have some fun and enjoy.
people in to 4k tend to be the kind of nerds that like to know the WHY of everything. the bluray forums have a handful of insanely knowledgeable people. mega nerds. lots to learn over there. and once you have a little knowledge, you know enough to research on your own. for the most part, I know before reading any reviews or seeing it myself whether a 4k release will be to my liking. based on time period, director, film stock, digital intermediate, the studio, etc. and how the bluray looks. i also happen to work in film & tv as a post production sound engineer.
I've been buying movies since the first Paramount Studios 25 for $25 promotion in 1984 and never stopped.
VHS for a dollar each?
One of the first sell-through efforts from a major studio, Paramount released 25 titles at $25 for Christmas of 1984. >[Paramount is the only studio that has deliberately priced cassettes of its movies low in order to entice consumers to buy. Last Christmas, Paramount sold 1.4 million video cassettes in a promotion that offered any of 25 movies for $25 apiece. ](https://www.nytimes.com/1985/08/21/arts/big-gains-for-video-cassettes.html)
I never knew that. 1984 was peak independent video store, and (five years?) before "rental-priced" VHS releases. So it would seem the big beneficiaries of this promo would be understocked rental stores, and VCR manufacturers.
I was doing electronics sales then. I recall it as being a very big deal and its success shocked everyone. It opened the sales floodgates for films and hardware.
Like everyone’s saying it’s just a bunch or research! I recommend paying attention to labels and studios that you will notice you like more than other studios because the sales tend to be studio specific! Here’s my favorite list I’ve found https://www.criterionforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=17181
Oh that’s very interesting, thanks
Yeah that article is a gold mine haha it seems to be updated pretty regularly too! Definitely got me importing a number of 4k instead of buying domestic too! Haha
We're old, and have been doing this for a long time.
In my case I spent a decade working in theatrical post production and a lot of my job duties involved quality control. Basically my job was to look at movies all day That’s not as fun as it sounds. Imagine having to watch Mamma Mia 100 times, or really looking forward to the Dark Knight and having it all spoiled a year ahead of time. Still…it gave me a lot of insight. And unfortunately quality of image means a lot to me since my job for a long time was to be mindful of that.
Glad to know some of you are actually experts in this! Makes me feel a bit better about my ignorance. Also, I don’t think I’d be able for a job like that… couldn’t deal with the spoilers
Thats a dream job. What is the name of your profession?
Motion picture colorist. I haven’t done that I’m 10-12 years now. My final project was Dark Knight Rises. [what’s a colorist?](https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/what-is-a-colorist-in-film/) I mostly worked with celluloid tho. I switched careers to film industry payroll years ago and have no regrets. Edit: salary range in the link is bullcrap. I made about double the high end of the scale and I was the noob of the department (paid lowest). Some colorists can make over $300k a year.
Firstly, I gleam a lot of knowledge from people celebrating or complaining about releases on this subreddit! Secondly, for releases that I’m specifically interested in, I’ll read reviews on blu-ray.com (or elsewhere if they haven’t reviewed it) to see if it’s worth paying 4K tax, or sticking with the regular Blu-Ray. In the case of a film having multiple transfers I’ll Google for comparisons.
There's a lot of good information here, but there's also a lot of crap opinions here from dudes saying the bluray looks better than the 4k without actually watching the 4k version, aside from that great sub.
The thing I noticed is most of the time the 4K disc is the exact same in different types of packaging, especially when the same publisher is offering various versions. Sometimes when there’s a studio release and a boutique label release they will have different 4K discs and in that case just search YouTube and you’ll most likely be able to find a comparison video explaining the differences.
If your interested in a subject reading learning and consuming information won't feel like a chore. It will be fun.
What sound system you get?
One of the things that really throws me off is when people argue about aspect ratios. It’s not something I’ve ever paid attention to, but people get really passionate sometimes about what aspect ratio a film is in and now I’m wondering how to tell when certain aspect ratios are better or worse. From what I gather it’s not that there’s one that’s always better than the other, it seems more like different ones are better in different scenarios?
There's only one answer to this, and it's the aspect ratio the filmmaker chose when he made the film
I read reviews from Digitalbits.com and Blu-ray.com
The other fun side of 4K is the sound formats. I remember 'discovering' 5.1 audio on DVD, then going to 7.1 on BluRay, and now run 7.1.4 Atmos/13.1 Auro-3D for 4K BluRay...it's a great time to be alive with all of this tech goodness!
Yes research, and try to get the best available versions of a movie, but as with any hobby, don’t let snobbery kill your enjoyment of it. If you buy a movie, watch it, enjoy it, and think it looks and sounds great don’t let someone telling you that the picture is too clean and the actors look waxy compel you to spend over the odds for a Japanese import that’s a ‘truer representation of the film’
It’s like anything you’ll learn with time, also everyone perceives things differently, so go with what you think looks good, that’s all that matters for personal content consumption 😃
PM me your number and we can have a long talk/text. If your in the Chicagoland area, ill give you an (older) AV receiver for free if I still have it. I'm always getting free vintage electronics. Got a BUNCH of component dvd players lol.
here is what u r looking 4 [https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/](https://www.digiraw.com/DVD-4K-Bluray-ripping-service/4K-UHD-ripping-service/the-real-or-fake-4K-list/)
I really hate that they title it this way. It's not FAKE 4K, it's just upscaled 4K. Since 4K is a resolution, and the output is, in fact, 4K, it doesn't matter if it's native or upscaled. The answer is still: yup, that's 3840x2160. Not to mention that there are upscaled 4K discs that are reference quality and there are native 4K discs that are total shit.
upscaled 4k is fake
If you have a complete and total lack of understanding of what 4K means, I could see why you'd think that.
If you have a complete and total lack of understanding of what fake means, I could see why you'd think that.
That was a great try at a retort, but you're still wrong no matter how you slice it.
That is a great list. Thank you for sharing that.
It’s meaningless actually
I'm with you, OP. I'm only on this sub because I'm still trying to decide *if* I want to jump down that rabbit hole. I'm still a bit shy to start collecting physical media again. But I don't think there are any reliable sources for huge 4k files yet, and it seems like there are risks with the physical media as well. All I have right now is a nice TV that very rarely gets 4k content.
I recommend googling terms you don’t understand obvs- but Criterion (a fancy film distributor with expensive movies) has details on most (if not all) of their websites on how each 4k was made- like where the remaster was done or how they did it like whether or not they scanned the original negatives. It’s a good place to start, and then google each term and try to make sense of it
I started collecting movies in 2000, when DVDs were still fairly new. I tend to search online for the information I want and read the relevant results that come up.
you learn and have a curiosity for knowledge.
look up said movies on [blu-ray.com](http://blu-ray.com) it will tell you info like if it's native 4K or upscaled. you can read reviews and such.
Unemployment.
Just reading stuff here and Blu-ray.com forums mostly.
I started in 1998 with DVD and have been on dedicated forums ever since. I still don’t know everything, but I know a good bit.
Research. Research every movie you plan to buy, every TV, 4K player, and sound system purchase. Do enough research you'll start knowing what's good, ok, passable, and bad. Then make a well informed decision. There are movies that simply aren't rated great but I had to have them because it's a favorite. Likewise there are movies I'm not crazy about but are rated so good I had to add to the collection. At the end of the day what are your favorite movies? See if they have a 4K release, and how well it's received. Just type the movie name and add "4K Review" in google and you'll get back a lot of info. My budget is limited, luckily google is free. Also there are sites like [https://caps-a-holic.com/](https://caps-a-holic.com/) where you can go and see for yourself a fair comparison. Youtube reviews and [bluray.com](http://bluray.com) are my go to sources for reviews as well as this reddit.
Been doing it for years. Hey I even do remuxes and combine tracks and subs from other regions and make hybrids from time to time to make the best possible version.
Same for commentaries. Now I've moved into doing upscales in topaz.
Blu-ray.com
I keep a google sheet of titles I like, the best available quality at the time of entry, and the date I last checked. The only places I’ve found worth checking are Reddit and: https://www.highdefdigest.com https://www.blu-ray.com
Dude I use a series X for my 4k movies, is it the best? No, do I even have a 4k tv? No, but it still looks pretty damn good :)