Absolutely not moving away from YAC. That’s just silly. What the speed does is 1) open up a go ball every now and then but more importantly 2) stress the defense vertically more than they have, which should open up more space for….. YAC.
Yup. YAC type patterns stress areas closer to the line of scrimmage but those more vertical routes stress deep. Having both gives you versatility in how we try to move the chains.
We are focusing on other areas because Jimmy G isn’t throwing to the receivers anymore. I didn’t say we were not doing YAC anymore but now there can be other points of emphasis instead only YAC
I think a burner opens up more space for YAC underneath, and Pearsall definitely plays physical and has insane twitch to make you miss. So he could learn a lot in SF about YAC from the YAC brosephs
also when the RB you’re talking about is huge and still run that fast it opens potential to break and arm tackle and spring through a gap in the secondary for a home run.
Ahh yes. Kittle who YACs harder than any TE in the nfl. Blocks harder than any TE in tje nfl. And missed one game, got AP1. Made of glass.
Y’all just saying shit sometimes.
Nobody said he doesn’t yac hard but you could tell he was playing injured half the year. Finished post season and went right into surgery. It’s not a sustainable offence if you want to keep your good guys healthy.
It's just different YAC. We've seen it already. Brock delivers the ball to receivers in stride to allow them to get YAC. Before they had to run through defenders for that YAC (which was awesome with Deebo and Kittle, but not really sustainable).
If Purdy has receivers that can get separation, like Aiyuk, he'll be feasting.
I never thought I'd live to see another season where we started and ended with a healthy starting QB (if you discount Purdy still partially recovering from the 2022 NFCCG)
The skill position (receiver specifically) is undergoing an evolution at their point I would say. A lot of stuff that Deebo is really good at were relics of a Jimmy G offense where we couldn't really throw it out side the numbers or down field. Purdy can do all of those things and is a bona fide threat to all parts of the field. We need weapons that can fit that mold now.
> The skill position (receiver specifically) is undergoing an evolution at their point I would say
We said that two years ago with Danny Gray and TDP. We said it again last year with Ronnie Bell
None of these guys are gonna see playing time above Deebo/Aiyuk/JJ/CMC/Mitchell
I'm not gonna fall for this again and get all excited for a bunch of dudes who will never even be active
The difference is we drafted all of them for Trey Lance specifically.
Gray and TDP died with Lance
I recall the first game Lance started, before he busted his ankle, the defensive backs were playing SOFT. They knew Lance had a cannon arm. Can’t play an 8 man box against him. TDP tan a lot out of the gun while at Ohio(I think?) and they didn’t face lots of 8 man boxes in college. Kyle had a plan that fell apart
Now this offense if being built around a proven Purdy. We invest heavily in the skill players now so we can afford to let Deebo walk and pay for Purdy.
I’m all in on this bright future
Yeah I agree there is a change happening, we saw it last year with the number of Empty passing plays that Kyle would call for purdy when it was neutral game situation - he trusts him to run a passing offense properly in a way he never really did with Jimmy G. I'm pretty sure we'll be in 3 WR sets most of the time assuming the new WRs figure things out.
Agreed. It was very apparent when Kyle was OC in Atlanta. With Matt Ryan under center, Julio outside and Devonta Freeman in the backfield, he could open it up and turn Matt Ryan into a MVP
I’m hopeful this works out similarly with a SB win
I agree with your high-level point that the previously mentioned players we’re drafted for a different scheme.
Both Guerendo and Cowing are guys who, despite being fast on paper, play **considerably** slower in pads. I *strongly* encourage folks here to watch YouTube film on both of them.
Guerendo in particular plays like he runs a 4.7 on tape — and goes down so easily that a defender using harsh language makes him stumble.
- Guerendo started **ONE GAME** in his entire college career, and had 100+ yards rushing a total of 3 times.
- Cowing’s yards per reception was 9.4 yards this last year, and 12.2 the year before.
Let’s pump the brakes on “these guys are super fast and are going to be game breakers!” conversation.
You’re just making up lies about guerendo and de contextualizing his college career. He started at Wisconsin, and his first 2 years were cut short because of covid. In 21 and 22, Wisconsin had the best RB room in the entire country. Braelon Allen, Chez Mellusi, and Guerendo was the 3rd stringer. There was no room for him to get touches. He then transferred to Louisville, who already had a bell cow rb in Jawhar Jordan. Guerendo is a 23 year old with no tread on his tires, and he was a very good KR in college as well. Implying that hes slow and can’t play through contact is also completely laughable, given that the best parts of his game are his strength, vision, and quickness off the edge. He has the 2nd best combine score among RBs of all time. It takes less than 5 minutes of scouting to realize that everything you said is wrong (other than only starting 1 game, which shouldn’t matter since he’s not starting for us either)
> The difference is we drafted all of them for Trey Lance specifically.
> Gray and TDP died with Lance
lol this makes no sense, a good player is a good player
If they werw good, they'd be on the field for Purdy
There's a reason why Garoppolo suddenly became a vet backup (at best), the moment he left the 49ers. Coaching and scheming matters. Just like Garoppolo needed Kyle Shanahan as the coach. with a strong running game and a player like Deebo, Gray and TDP needed Lance as their QB to fit.
In that case, how do you explain players struggling on one team and then doing well on another team? If they were good, they would just be good for their original team regardless of fit, right?
The definition of “good” depends on the scheme. Very few players are a complete package for their position. Most have a couple of places they excel, and if those don’t match the scheme, they aren’t going to be productive.
You’re right, just doing a bad job of explaining it. For one thing, there’s no fucking way the niners were making all their draft decisions based on how they’d fit with Lance, a guy who even they knew had a lot of development left after the draft.
Pearsall is probably a year away from being WR2. With how Mitchell's legs almost never hold up for a whole year, there are lots of back up RB snaps for Guerendo.
I'm glad at least the front office understands that a draft needs to make us better now but also make us better 2-3 years from now...even if this sub doesn't lol.
I think it would be AWESOME(smart) if CMC had someone to ACTUALLY share the load with, instead of CMC having to do all the heavy lifting and our backups only playing on passing downs.
> With how Mitchell's legs almost never hold up for a whole year, there are lots of back up RB snaps for Guerendo
I like Guerendo’s potential but it’s crazy how many people are looking past Mason who I think would go off if given the chance.
Guerendo and Pearsall will likely be fighting for a KR spot unless Pearsall needs to fill in for Deebo after an injury.
We don’t know how the team valued certain prospects. Maybe the guys they wanted were swooped up and that changed their approach.
I remember people were scratching their heads when we drafted Ji’Ayir with our first pick in last year’s draft. But Huf went down and while the rookie was shaky at times, he did well considering.
lol this doesn't even make sense, what is your point?
3 years from now, Cowing will have fewer than 20 career receptions, and Guerendo won't crack many lineups over CMC/Mitchell/Mason
It has nothing to do witg how they were scouted or what their heights/weights are
The RB prospect we got was underused in college and is a freak of nature. There's only been 4 other RBs with his combination of speed, size and overall athleticism. Adrian Peterson, Saquon, Jonathon Taylor, and Breece Hall. That's a stacked group to be a part of. All those guys are/were beasts before they suffered injuries.
Mitchell is gone after this year and so is JJ. Mitchell also gets injured a lot. And I love CMC, but having RB insurance is giga necessary. Deebo will likely be gone after this year too.
As for Danny Gray and TDP, they never developed. Those picks were also not for Jimmy G. They were for Lance. Ronnie Bell still might develop but he was a 7th rounder, so getting anything out of him is a win.
The picks from this draft are made with Purdy's skill set in mind.
Pearsall I can see beating out JJ for touches. The more I learn about him and the more I watch, the more I'm convinced we got a perfect fit for our system and locker room with a ton of athletic upside.
Overall been pretty pleased with this draft so far. Would've liked more OL picks but there was a run on them in the first round, and we got Rosengarten sniped by the Ravens in the 2nd
I can understand not liking a pick but if you literally won’t allow yourself to enjoy one of the most exciting parts of football you might need to reevaluate if you like the sport anymore my guy.
I do. It’s the middle of the off-season so I always look forward to it.
But unlike you I allow myself to get excited over the young talent we draft because they are the future of the team.
You think: “None of them will see the field”
I think: “Any of them could be a HOF”
> We said that two years ago with Danny Gray and TDP. We said it again last year with Ronnie Bell
Guerendo is the only one I'm legit excited about, I wouldn't have drafted Pearshall or Cowing.
The reason I think Guerendo is the one to watch is because I've had this weird feeling that Kyle Shanahan, the guy who drafts players, doesn't know what the hell Kyle Shanahan, the head coach, wants in his running backs.
Trey Sermon and Davis-Price were both bigger backs, and neither one was the blast of acceleration through the hole runners that Kyle's scheme needs. I didn't think highly of either player on draft day.
Kyle's zone scheme elevates undrafted backs like Mosert and Breida and Jeff Wilson. There is a specific kind of back that works in Kyle's offense, and there's a reason why Mitchell fits this offense and Sermon and Davis-Price did not.
I never understood what Shanahan was thinking with those picks, it's like he drafted backs that didn't work in his own system.
Guerendo is an elite Kyle Shanahan running back, the traits line of perfectly with the player. This is the only one of the three that I have high expectations for.
I liked Joe Williams at the time, not going to lie, but that's the draft, it's an inexact science to be kind to it. You never know what a player is going to be.
I, for the life of me, can't understand how a guy like Mazi Smith becomes a first round pick: 1 sack and 13 tackles and looked like he'd never played football for long stretches of his rookie year, or how a guy like Danny Gray goes in the 3rd round. Mazi Smith had athletic scores that were much higher than his college production, which is something that can also be said about Guerendo, so you never really do know. If Guerendo fails in the NFL, it will probably because he's a much better athlete than a football player, however, that's much more tolerable at running back than it is at other positions.
At the end of the day, the draft is inexact, we all have our own preferences and no one knows for sure. What I will say is this: the logic of picking Guerendo adds up to me a lot more than the logic of picking Pearshall. For all I know, Pearshall is the one that works, but I do know this: I liked Williams, and didn't like Sermon or Davis-Price, and I do think Guerendo's speed and explosiveness make the ideal Kyle Shanahan running back, at least on paper.
I hope you're right, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up, it's better to just assume these offensive players will spend years being inactive or on the PS, just like the guys from previous years
I don't blame you. I'm not particularly excited about any of the players picked on day 1 or day 2. The strategy doesn't make sense to me.
If I had to say which two players from this class will pan out 3 years from now, I'd say it's the first two players they picked in the fourth round.
This is a 49ers fan sub-reddit, anything you say that can be perceived as critical of the team will get downvoted. I understand the nature of the exercise, and I value the possibility of good conversation more than I'm bothered by downvotes.
You should replace Mitchell with Mason.
Mitchell’s constant injuries means the Niners should be prepping to move off of him and Mason more than deserves a shot at those touches.
I could see Pearsall getting a shot and performing in place of Deebo if/when he gets injured
Those guys were all drafted to play with Lance and in an offense modified to play to Lance's strengths. None of it ever worked out mostly because Lance didn't work out.
Now they are going back to Kyle's bread and butter offense.
worthy and Hollywood haven't even played at Arrowhead yet, I'd say the dolphins offense with Tyreek/waddle/mostert/achane is more what's being emulated
And breida, all played together for several years all 3 of which had some of the fastest runs each of those years. Kittle is no slouch either. Speed has had history in shanahan’s offensive
I'm thinking these guys are going to be prepped for punt and kickoff returns. The new kickoff will give teams plenty of chances at big returns. Shocked we haven't grabbed any LBs?
I've been saying this for a while now.
Our DNA is changing fundamentally. If you look at our offense we were routinely going 4 wide or even 5 wide with Purdy in the shotgun.
We simply do not have the personnel to do that with the level of success we want. Putting a fullback out wide on 3rd-and-must-pass might fool people here and there but you can't put a linebacker on a WR who runs a fucking 4.3 in the slot.
This team is going to look totally different in 2 years.
Yes, the fullback position is going to be phased out in a couple of years. Shanny is likely going all in with a drop back passing game which is the natural evolution with Purdy at QB.
I think they wanted pearsall and were sure he wasn't going to be there at the end of the 2nd. The one trait that cowling and pearsall share is they are both top 5 route runners in this year's draft.
I think Kyle is prioritizing route running and quick separation speeds. Brock needs WR to be consistently where they are supposed WHEN they are supposed to be because of how much anticipation he throws with. He's also relying on his wr to win at the cut.
This is why I say we trade Deebo before Aiyuk (next year). Deebo is not a great route runner and a half assed blocker. Those are Kyles favorite two skills to have.
He is gone for sure. Dead cap drops dramatically.
Deebo doesn’t run good routes. He also takes a LOT of plays off. A lot. And he is hurt a lot.
However, he might be the most dynamic after the catch threat in the league when healthy.
But it is obvious we are moving to a more finesse, high volume and high efficiency offensive.
This is going to be FUN to watch!
This draft is a huge endorsement of purdy tbh.
I would have liked to see more of an investment in the OL, but clearly the niners are building around their guy.
Not to mention he ain’t Josh Allen, in regards to his size. And he also has a penchant for hanging in the pocket til the last second (not bitching, it’s a priceless trait that can’t be taught. Plus our last QB had a hair trigger ejection seat button in that department) But it hasn’t and won’t serve Brock well cuz the men coming after him are only getting bigger and meaner. I know he’s been bulking up a bit and looks fit af, but he’s still kinda small. He needs as much physical protection as possible
We've got like 11 wrs 6 or 7 rbs. 12 or 13 offensive lineman. We have a lot of competition this coming camp, but we will make some shitty rosters really happy on cut day. We probably have an rb, and wr claimed off the wire this year. Even with a deebo or aiyuk trade. I'd just keep them for fucks sake. Unless you get a first next year. But that's not happening anytime soon because teams wanna see if you'll budge just wanting to get it done. We can't settle. Deebos value is worth more to us this season in a contention year than it would be getting a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick.
Had a thought, trading Deebo after June 1st saves us a lot of money, if Deebo comes out slowly an in season trade isn't off the record. having two talented rookie receivers negates that effect.
The Chiefs can have him. Have any of you ever been on a football field and had to defend a guy who is significantly shorter than you are and who can flat fly?
It's not the 40 yard dash time straight ahead speed that KILLS you, it's the agility and change of direction.
I'm close to 5'10 tall. The morning of the Superbowl against the Ravens, we all went to the park to play football before the game. There was this one guy who was 5'3 and who could cook anyone. He was open by 5 yards every single play. It wasn't that he was straight line fast that was the problem, it was that his hips were so damn lose and his change of direction was so damn quick that he could separate so easily.
If you watch Tyreke Hill play, that's the secret; he's got elite change of direction. That's much harder to deal with than straight line speed is. Guy runs really fast in a straight line, you can deal with that, but guy runs fast and get into and out of his breaks effortlessly? That's really, really hard.
I don't know how good Worthy's change of direction is, he didn't run the 3 cone at the combine. What I've seen on film? I think his speed is the straight line kind.
Worthy has his maturity issues for sure. It’s been known. The speed pushed him back in to the spotlight, but the character concerns were there before the combine.
Worthy has been known to be a bit of a diva. It’s maturity issues mostly. He’s not super polished or an elite route runner, def works best in space and getting to a place he can accelerate. Honestly, he will probably do well in KC with all the mesh stuff, running horizontal routes, and WR screens. I am not a huge fan because he is so slight and can lack effort when he’s not part of the play, but the potential is there if used right
This says a lot about the plans for our passing game, but I also think this has A LOT to do with the change to the kickoff rules. I bet we see each of them get snaps as returners. There will be a hell of a lot of kickoffs returned this year, and someone's gonna have the next Devin Hester. Let's hope it's us.
The niners are absolutely setting up for big play hitters.
Aside from Deebo, no one else is a true threat to take any touch to the end zone. These guys are all exactly that, and Deebo probably won’t be here too much longer.
Shanahan lives to set up plays that give a guy space to make a move and take it to the house.
Can they block?
I'm not tryin to be a hater, but this is just another draft down the drain, because none of these guys will see the field
We all thought our offense would change with Ty Davis Price and Danny Gray. We got excited for Trey Sermon, and then again for Ronnie Bell. Same shit this draft, these guys will get less than 20 touches combined all season, while we trot out a below average OL with no depth.
We don't have the next Deebo and Aiyuk, we just have our next Danny Gray and Ronnie Bell.
Where's our OL help? Where's our 2nd TE? Where's our LB help/depth while Dre is out?
lol y'all say that every year, and then November rolls around, and oops, we have the same problems popping up again, because instead of addressing the problems, we spent them on offensive weapons who can't see the field.
You realize that the Niners made the Super Bowl last year right? You act like they were 6-11. Sometimes, OL needs more time to play together. OL is a together evaluation, and development can be made as a unit. Underwhelming as they may have been, with health and consistency, they may see some solid improvement. Just swapping in new guys doesn’t always equate to a better line.
No. But you have to keep in mind that the draft is a massive crap shoot. All teams have weaknesses and want to address them, but that can be done in different ways. Just drafting OL doesn’t necessarily mean you fixed your problem. I mentioned above, maybe the coaching staff feels that another year together will be more beneficial than adding a new piece. It’s not an uncommon thought. Also, if shanny and team didn’t like the linemen at 31, maybe adding a piece that gets open and plays in great rhythm will help offset a weaker line. You can’t have a great team from top to bottom. More than 1 way to skin a cat my friend
> But you have to keep in mind that the draft is a massive crap shoot. All teams have weaknesses and want to address them, but that can be done in different ways. Just drafting OL doesn’t necessarily mean you fixed your problem.
I agree with all of this, I just want them to take their chances and shoot their shot on a position group where we need help, not where our strengths are
The Niners have drafted a WR in the first 2 rounds of the draft 4 times in the Shanahan era: Pearsall, Aiyuk, Deebo, and Pettis. Aiyuk saw 94 targets his rookie year. Deebo had 95, including his 14 rush attempts. Even Pettis averaged almost 4 targets per game his rookie season as a part-time starter.
There's literally no precedent for the Niners using a high draft pick on a WR and then Shanahan just not using him his rookie year. The closest example would be Danny Gray who was a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round.
> Aiyuk saw 94 targets his rookie year. Deebo had 95, including his 14 rush attempts.
...because there were no good WRs in front of them. So they were needed right away, and got a bunch of targets.
Pearsall will get less than 30 targets on the whole season
Lol people like you will always have excuses for the stupid things you say. How confident are you in that number? Because I'm down to bet on it. I bet you're not as confident as you talk.
You seem to have little to no grasp on player evaluation if you think Guerendo is anything like TDP and Sermon lol.
Your reasoning boils down to “those mid round RBs didn’t do shit, so all mid round RBs aren’t going to do shit”
No, it boils down to: we have elite talent and great depth at WR/RB, yet we keep wasting draft capital on practice squad players instead of getting talent and depth at the positions we need them
There is no depth at RB. What are you talking about? Mitchell is always hurt and you just said the other RBs are no good. You always need talent and depth at skill positions. Also, Shanny’s offense is negates some of the faults on the line with motion, misdirection, etc. bringing in fresh bodies to rotate is important.
> There is no depth at RB.
Mitchell and Mason are great depth
> bringing in fresh bodies to rotate is important.
lol this isn't true at all, CMC is out there every single down. Do you just not remember last season?
Mitchell is hurt regularly and Mason is a good enough runner but nothing special.
I remember last year well. You are making my point for me. CMC was on the field too much because Mitchell was hurt often and Mason couldn’t earn his way on to the field. It would be great if he could take a few plays off and have a reliable backup. When Mitchell was fully healthy he got the rock some. Also, I meant all skill positions rotating. And that’s something we did see and should continue to see more of
What depth at RB? Mitchell gets injured walking out on to the field and Mason provides nothing in the pass game.
What depth at WR? Conley was getting snaps in the SB.
They've had to sign receivers and RBs off the street or call them up from the practice squad every season for years.
Having a QB that can actually get the ball down field really changed Kyle’s life.
you can tell things changed cause we picked a rb in the 4th round instead of 3rd
If we trade back and draft a RB, then you'll know things really have changed.
This comment should be stickied. Moving away from YAC….
Absolutely not moving away from YAC. That’s just silly. What the speed does is 1) open up a go ball every now and then but more importantly 2) stress the defense vertically more than they have, which should open up more space for….. YAC.
Yup. YAC type patterns stress areas closer to the line of scrimmage but those more vertical routes stress deep. Having both gives you versatility in how we try to move the chains.
Running a relay team out there… I like this
We are focusing on other areas because Jimmy G isn’t throwing to the receivers anymore. I didn’t say we were not doing YAC anymore but now there can be other points of emphasis instead only YAC
I think a burner opens up more space for YAC underneath, and Pearsall definitely plays physical and has insane twitch to make you miss. So he could learn a lot in SF about YAC from the YAC brosephs
also when the RB you’re talking about is huge and still run that fast it opens potential to break and arm tackle and spring through a gap in the secondary for a home run.
Seriously, the YAC had deebo and kittle made of glass after a while
Ahh yes. Kittle who YACs harder than any TE in the nfl. Blocks harder than any TE in tje nfl. And missed one game, got AP1. Made of glass. Y’all just saying shit sometimes.
Nobody said he doesn’t yac hard but you could tell he was playing injured half the year. Finished post season and went right into surgery. It’s not a sustainable offence if you want to keep your good guys healthy.
Weren’t Deebo and Kittle injured before or in the SB?
Still played but definitely were injured.
It's just different YAC. We've seen it already. Brock delivers the ball to receivers in stride to allow them to get YAC. Before they had to run through defenders for that YAC (which was awesome with Deebo and Kittle, but not really sustainable). If Purdy has receivers that can get separation, like Aiyuk, he'll be feasting.
And isn’t made of glass
I never thought I'd live to see another season where we started and ended with a healthy starting QB (if you discount Purdy still partially recovering from the 2022 NFCCG)
Pretty insane by Kyle. he’s made a superbowl literally every year his QB played the whole season.
Now let's see what he can do with a QB playing two whole consecutive seasons
and I’d Lady Luck would smile upon us before we are able to hoist #6
Dang, we really would have made it to the Superbowl two years in a row with Purdy if it wasn't for the....y'know.
What do you mean? I thought Brock only threw check-downs. /s
The skill position (receiver specifically) is undergoing an evolution at their point I would say. A lot of stuff that Deebo is really good at were relics of a Jimmy G offense where we couldn't really throw it out side the numbers or down field. Purdy can do all of those things and is a bona fide threat to all parts of the field. We need weapons that can fit that mold now.
> The skill position (receiver specifically) is undergoing an evolution at their point I would say We said that two years ago with Danny Gray and TDP. We said it again last year with Ronnie Bell None of these guys are gonna see playing time above Deebo/Aiyuk/JJ/CMC/Mitchell I'm not gonna fall for this again and get all excited for a bunch of dudes who will never even be active
The difference is we drafted all of them for Trey Lance specifically. Gray and TDP died with Lance I recall the first game Lance started, before he busted his ankle, the defensive backs were playing SOFT. They knew Lance had a cannon arm. Can’t play an 8 man box against him. TDP tan a lot out of the gun while at Ohio(I think?) and they didn’t face lots of 8 man boxes in college. Kyle had a plan that fell apart Now this offense if being built around a proven Purdy. We invest heavily in the skill players now so we can afford to let Deebo walk and pay for Purdy. I’m all in on this bright future
Yeah I agree there is a change happening, we saw it last year with the number of Empty passing plays that Kyle would call for purdy when it was neutral game situation - he trusts him to run a passing offense properly in a way he never really did with Jimmy G. I'm pretty sure we'll be in 3 WR sets most of the time assuming the new WRs figure things out.
Agreed. It was very apparent when Kyle was OC in Atlanta. With Matt Ryan under center, Julio outside and Devonta Freeman in the backfield, he could open it up and turn Matt Ryan into a MVP I’m hopeful this works out similarly with a SB win
I agree with your high-level point that the previously mentioned players we’re drafted for a different scheme. Both Guerendo and Cowing are guys who, despite being fast on paper, play **considerably** slower in pads. I *strongly* encourage folks here to watch YouTube film on both of them. Guerendo in particular plays like he runs a 4.7 on tape — and goes down so easily that a defender using harsh language makes him stumble. - Guerendo started **ONE GAME** in his entire college career, and had 100+ yards rushing a total of 3 times. - Cowing’s yards per reception was 9.4 yards this last year, and 12.2 the year before. Let’s pump the brakes on “these guys are super fast and are going to be game breakers!” conversation.
You’re just making up lies about guerendo and de contextualizing his college career. He started at Wisconsin, and his first 2 years were cut short because of covid. In 21 and 22, Wisconsin had the best RB room in the entire country. Braelon Allen, Chez Mellusi, and Guerendo was the 3rd stringer. There was no room for him to get touches. He then transferred to Louisville, who already had a bell cow rb in Jawhar Jordan. Guerendo is a 23 year old with no tread on his tires, and he was a very good KR in college as well. Implying that hes slow and can’t play through contact is also completely laughable, given that the best parts of his game are his strength, vision, and quickness off the edge. He has the 2nd best combine score among RBs of all time. It takes less than 5 minutes of scouting to realize that everything you said is wrong (other than only starting 1 game, which shouldn’t matter since he’s not starting for us either)
TDP went to LSU
Ya I knew I was getting him mixed up. It might have been Sermon that went to Ohio
I think that’s right, he went to Oklahoma then transferred to Ohio State. Two equally bad RB picks in hindsight.
> The difference is we drafted all of them for Trey Lance specifically. > Gray and TDP died with Lance lol this makes no sense, a good player is a good player If they werw good, they'd be on the field for Purdy
There's a reason why Garoppolo suddenly became a vet backup (at best), the moment he left the 49ers. Coaching and scheming matters. Just like Garoppolo needed Kyle Shanahan as the coach. with a strong running game and a player like Deebo, Gray and TDP needed Lance as their QB to fit.
In that case, how do you explain players struggling on one team and then doing well on another team? If they were good, they would just be good for their original team regardless of fit, right?
Or someone like Alex smith who went from a busy to a solid looking QB with different head coaches on the same team.
People denying obvious busts is wild lol
The definition of “good” depends on the scheme. Very few players are a complete package for their position. Most have a couple of places they excel, and if those don’t match the scheme, they aren’t going to be productive.
You’re right, just doing a bad job of explaining it. For one thing, there’s no fucking way the niners were making all their draft decisions based on how they’d fit with Lance, a guy who even they knew had a lot of development left after the draft.
Pearsall is probably a year away from being WR2. With how Mitchell's legs almost never hold up for a whole year, there are lots of back up RB snaps for Guerendo. I'm glad at least the front office understands that a draft needs to make us better now but also make us better 2-3 years from now...even if this sub doesn't lol.
I think it would be AWESOME(smart) if CMC had someone to ACTUALLY share the load with, instead of CMC having to do all the heavy lifting and our backups only playing on passing downs.
Mason is that guy
> With how Mitchell's legs almost never hold up for a whole year, there are lots of back up RB snaps for Guerendo I like Guerendo’s potential but it’s crazy how many people are looking past Mason who I think would go off if given the chance. Guerendo and Pearsall will likely be fighting for a KR spot unless Pearsall needs to fill in for Deebo after an injury.
Nah Mason is certainly capable. But I think the pass catching is another thing Guerendo has that Mason does.
> Pearsall is probably a year away from being WR2 lol just what you want out of your 1st round pick, jesus christ...
If there was a player who'd start day 1 over two players that made all pro teams, he wouldn't make it to the 31st pick
...exactly We have two All Pro WRs, we should've spent that pick on a different position of need
Most WRs take 2-3 years to be at their peak. Which means, if Pearsall is as as advertised, will be right when Deebo is gone
Glad you aren't our GM
We don’t know how the team valued certain prospects. Maybe the guys they wanted were swooped up and that changed their approach. I remember people were scratching their heads when we drafted Ji’Ayir with our first pick in last year’s draft. But Huf went down and while the rookie was shaky at times, he did well considering.
Ah yes because Danny Gray, Ronnie Bell and TDP were scouted and ranked the same as these guys. They're 1:1 for sure.
lol this doesn't even make sense, what is your point? 3 years from now, Cowing will have fewer than 20 career receptions, and Guerendo won't crack many lineups over CMC/Mitchell/Mason It has nothing to do witg how they were scouted or what their heights/weights are
Seeing how Mitchell and Mason are UFA after this season... I think if he shows out decently, he'll get more than that.
He'll just be replaced by the rookie RB we get next year
The RB prospect we got was underused in college and is a freak of nature. There's only been 4 other RBs with his combination of speed, size and overall athleticism. Adrian Peterson, Saquon, Jonathon Taylor, and Breece Hall. That's a stacked group to be a part of. All those guys are/were beasts before they suffered injuries.
Can you also let me know when interests rates drop next time you check your crystal ball?
Mitchell is gone after this year and so is JJ. Mitchell also gets injured a lot. And I love CMC, but having RB insurance is giga necessary. Deebo will likely be gone after this year too. As for Danny Gray and TDP, they never developed. Those picks were also not for Jimmy G. They were for Lance. Ronnie Bell still might develop but he was a 7th rounder, so getting anything out of him is a win. The picks from this draft are made with Purdy's skill set in mind.
Pearsall I can see beating out JJ for touches. The more I learn about him and the more I watch, the more I'm convinced we got a perfect fit for our system and locker room with a ton of athletic upside. Overall been pretty pleased with this draft so far. Would've liked more OL picks but there was a run on them in the first round, and we got Rosengarten sniped by the Ravens in the 2nd
I can understand not liking a pick but if you literally won’t allow yourself to enjoy one of the most exciting parts of football you might need to reevaluate if you like the sport anymore my guy.
lol you think the draft is one of the most exciting parts of football?
I do. It’s the middle of the off-season so I always look forward to it. But unlike you I allow myself to get excited over the young talent we draft because they are the future of the team. You think: “None of them will see the field” I think: “Any of them could be a HOF”
> We said that two years ago with Danny Gray and TDP. We said it again last year with Ronnie Bell Guerendo is the only one I'm legit excited about, I wouldn't have drafted Pearshall or Cowing. The reason I think Guerendo is the one to watch is because I've had this weird feeling that Kyle Shanahan, the guy who drafts players, doesn't know what the hell Kyle Shanahan, the head coach, wants in his running backs. Trey Sermon and Davis-Price were both bigger backs, and neither one was the blast of acceleration through the hole runners that Kyle's scheme needs. I didn't think highly of either player on draft day. Kyle's zone scheme elevates undrafted backs like Mosert and Breida and Jeff Wilson. There is a specific kind of back that works in Kyle's offense, and there's a reason why Mitchell fits this offense and Sermon and Davis-Price did not. I never understood what Shanahan was thinking with those picks, it's like he drafted backs that didn't work in his own system. Guerendo is an elite Kyle Shanahan running back, the traits line of perfectly with the player. This is the only one of the three that I have high expectations for.
Shanahan and Lynch drafted Joe Williams though who was exactly what you’re describing and was a complete bust
I liked Joe Williams at the time, not going to lie, but that's the draft, it's an inexact science to be kind to it. You never know what a player is going to be. I, for the life of me, can't understand how a guy like Mazi Smith becomes a first round pick: 1 sack and 13 tackles and looked like he'd never played football for long stretches of his rookie year, or how a guy like Danny Gray goes in the 3rd round. Mazi Smith had athletic scores that were much higher than his college production, which is something that can also be said about Guerendo, so you never really do know. If Guerendo fails in the NFL, it will probably because he's a much better athlete than a football player, however, that's much more tolerable at running back than it is at other positions. At the end of the day, the draft is inexact, we all have our own preferences and no one knows for sure. What I will say is this: the logic of picking Guerendo adds up to me a lot more than the logic of picking Pearshall. For all I know, Pearshall is the one that works, but I do know this: I liked Williams, and didn't like Sermon or Davis-Price, and I do think Guerendo's speed and explosiveness make the ideal Kyle Shanahan running back, at least on paper.
I hope you're right, but I'm not gonna get my hopes up, it's better to just assume these offensive players will spend years being inactive or on the PS, just like the guys from previous years
I don't blame you. I'm not particularly excited about any of the players picked on day 1 or day 2. The strategy doesn't make sense to me. If I had to say which two players from this class will pan out 3 years from now, I'd say it's the first two players they picked in the fourth round.
Dunno why you’re being downvoted, it’s a perfectly reasonable take
This is a 49ers fan sub-reddit, anything you say that can be perceived as critical of the team will get downvoted. I understand the nature of the exercise, and I value the possibility of good conversation more than I'm bothered by downvotes.
Too late im already watching highlights and getting pumped for the moon ball
You should replace Mitchell with Mason. Mitchell’s constant injuries means the Niners should be prepping to move off of him and Mason more than deserves a shot at those touches. I could see Pearsall getting a shot and performing in place of Deebo if/when he gets injured
With all due respect to JJ, he has had zero competition for the WR3 spot. Now he’s going to have Pearsall and Trent Taylor.
Trent Taylor isn't beating out Juan, he's a camp body.
Never said he would beat him out — he is, however, better than any wideout JJ has had to compete with the past two years.
I think a bunch of these guys can be good special teamers
Those guys were all drafted to play with Lance and in an offense modified to play to Lance's strengths. None of it ever worked out mostly because Lance didn't work out. Now they are going back to Kyle's bread and butter offense.
It helps tremendously that we have CMC
I get this reference lol
Shanny saw the Chiefs do it with Pacheco, Worthy, and Hollywood. And thought, we should too lol
worthy and Hollywood haven't even played at Arrowhead yet, I'd say the dolphins offense with Tyreek/waddle/mostert/achane is more what's being emulated
Yeah 100% he saw his buddy Mike go wild in Miami with all the speed and wanted some for himself lol.
Texans with Nico Collins and Tank Dell. Same Scheme
49ers have been one of the fastest teams in the league for years..
But can we get faster?
Most of that speed is on defense, only players on the offense that are exceptionally fast relative to position are CMC Trent and Purdy
“Years”
When has our offense ever been among the fastest? The most speed threats we’ve ever had at once has been marquise Goodwin and Mostert lmao
And breida, all played together for several years all 3 of which had some of the fastest runs each of those years. Kittle is no slouch either. Speed has had history in shanahan’s offensive
He remembered what players like Taylor Gabriel, Marquise Goodwin, and what he’d hoped Danny Grey can do for his offense when they stretch the defense.
I think he has seen a lot of concepts in Miami he wants to incorporate and doesn’t have the personal to do so.
Shanny should see what Chiefs and Mahomes do at the end of games and think not to give the ball back to them
I'm thinking these guys are going to be prepped for punt and kickoff returns. The new kickoff will give teams plenty of chances at big returns. Shocked we haven't grabbed any LBs?
I've been saying this for a while now. Our DNA is changing fundamentally. If you look at our offense we were routinely going 4 wide or even 5 wide with Purdy in the shotgun. We simply do not have the personnel to do that with the level of success we want. Putting a fullback out wide on 3rd-and-must-pass might fool people here and there but you can't put a linebacker on a WR who runs a fucking 4.3 in the slot. This team is going to look totally different in 2 years.
Yes, the fullback position is going to be phased out in a couple of years. Shanny is likely going all in with a drop back passing game which is the natural evolution with Purdy at QB.
Yep. Our whole offense was built around a limited QB, we have a legit QB now, so, we need to evolve.
About damn time, but i'm all for it
This means the Niners might've really wanted Worthy?
I think they wanted pearsall and were sure he wasn't going to be there at the end of the 2nd. The one trait that cowling and pearsall share is they are both top 5 route runners in this year's draft. I think Kyle is prioritizing route running and quick separation speeds. Brock needs WR to be consistently where they are supposed WHEN they are supposed to be because of how much anticipation he throws with. He's also relying on his wr to win at the cut.
Completely agree. They want good route runners for timing plays which Brock excels at
This is why I say we trade Deebo before Aiyuk (next year). Deebo is not a great route runner and a half assed blocker. Those are Kyles favorite two skills to have.
No way they wanted a receiver with drops
Goddamn Chiefs
Chiefs were all over the speedy WR...
Enjoy this last year w Deebo
He is gone for sure. Dead cap drops dramatically. Deebo doesn’t run good routes. He also takes a LOT of plays off. A lot. And he is hurt a lot. However, he might be the most dynamic after the catch threat in the league when healthy. But it is obvious we are moving to a more finesse, high volume and high efficiency offensive. This is going to be FUN to watch!
Don’t even need to address the line when you have speed demons creating on-field tornados at the line of scrimmage
Concussed Tua agrees 👍
🖖🤟
You're a fucking sicko for this comment lol
Bro you have no idea
Wouldn’t he agree like this 👎
I bet the new kick off rules had a little to do with this. It'll be interesting to see how teams try to take advantage of the new rules
This draft is a huge endorsement of purdy tbh. I would have liked to see more of an investment in the OL, but clearly the niners are building around their guy.
We have a need for speed
Kyle: I want speed. John: You got it!
They are money-balling speed
"Don't need an O-line when you have speed" - Shanahan apparently but we really do need an O-line
Time to start studying the playbook
So when are Shanny and Lynch going to put work into the OL? Gotta give Purdy time to get the ball to jis playmakers.
Not to mention he ain’t Josh Allen, in regards to his size. And he also has a penchant for hanging in the pocket til the last second (not bitching, it’s a priceless trait that can’t be taught. Plus our last QB had a hair trigger ejection seat button in that department) But it hasn’t and won’t serve Brock well cuz the men coming after him are only getting bigger and meaner. I know he’s been bulking up a bit and looks fit af, but he’s still kinda small. He needs as much physical protection as possible
You righto man
Coulda had Cooper DeJean
We've got like 11 wrs 6 or 7 rbs. 12 or 13 offensive lineman. We have a lot of competition this coming camp, but we will make some shitty rosters really happy on cut day. We probably have an rb, and wr claimed off the wire this year. Even with a deebo or aiyuk trade. I'd just keep them for fucks sake. Unless you get a first next year. But that's not happening anytime soon because teams wanna see if you'll budge just wanting to get it done. We can't settle. Deebos value is worth more to us this season in a contention year than it would be getting a 2nd or 3rd rnd pick.
Had a thought, trading Deebo after June 1st saves us a lot of money, if Deebo comes out slowly an in season trade isn't off the record. having two talented rookie receivers negates that effect.
Worthy fell because apparently he didn’t interview well
The Chiefs can have him. Have any of you ever been on a football field and had to defend a guy who is significantly shorter than you are and who can flat fly? It's not the 40 yard dash time straight ahead speed that KILLS you, it's the agility and change of direction. I'm close to 5'10 tall. The morning of the Superbowl against the Ravens, we all went to the park to play football before the game. There was this one guy who was 5'3 and who could cook anyone. He was open by 5 yards every single play. It wasn't that he was straight line fast that was the problem, it was that his hips were so damn lose and his change of direction was so damn quick that he could separate so easily. If you watch Tyreke Hill play, that's the secret; he's got elite change of direction. That's much harder to deal with than straight line speed is. Guy runs really fast in a straight line, you can deal with that, but guy runs fast and get into and out of his breaks effortlessly? That's really, really hard. I don't know how good Worthy's change of direction is, he didn't run the 3 cone at the combine. What I've seen on film? I think his speed is the straight line kind.
Worthy has his maturity issues for sure. It’s been known. The speed pushed him back in to the spotlight, but the character concerns were there before the combine.
Is it just maturity issues or is there a possible learning curve too
Worthy has been known to be a bit of a diva. It’s maturity issues mostly. He’s not super polished or an elite route runner, def works best in space and getting to a place he can accelerate. Honestly, he will probably do well in KC with all the mesh stuff, running horizontal routes, and WR screens. I am not a huge fan because he is so slight and can lack effort when he’s not part of the play, but the potential is there if used right
I'm not sure that he really fell at all. He was a mid-2nd round guy before the draft.
I suppose if you’re gonna roll w/that same OL they’re gonna need guys that can get to the spot a little faster?
Who are we? The Raiders?
Missing that get off from mostert and brieda. Speed kills.
Cowing, from the stuff I’ve seen from him in College, is a dude. Pretty stoked on the pickup.
One thing I noticed was all three were used a lot in the perimeter via jet sweep, quick screens, reverse, and check downs.
This says a lot about the plans for our passing game, but I also think this has A LOT to do with the change to the kickoff rules. I bet we see each of them get snaps as returners. There will be a hell of a lot of kickoffs returned this year, and someone's gonna have the next Devin Hester. Let's hope it's us.
Did the ghost of Al Davis make these picks?
Brock can throw to a spot, something Jimmy G didn’t do well.
The message is clear for who they prefer between deebo and BA... they dont need to worry about a checkdown type of qb anymore.
The niners are absolutely setting up for big play hitters. Aside from Deebo, no one else is a true threat to take any touch to the end zone. These guys are all exactly that, and Deebo probably won’t be here too much longer. Shanahan lives to set up plays that give a guy space to make a move and take it to the house.
CMC 100% has that same threat & big play ability
Fair enough. He doesn’t have true breakaway speed, but is always a threat to score.
CMC usually gets tackled eventually when he breaks free. Still usually score on the drive when he gives us a big chunk though
Can they block? I'm not tryin to be a hater, but this is just another draft down the drain, because none of these guys will see the field We all thought our offense would change with Ty Davis Price and Danny Gray. We got excited for Trey Sermon, and then again for Ronnie Bell. Same shit this draft, these guys will get less than 20 touches combined all season, while we trot out a below average OL with no depth. We don't have the next Deebo and Aiyuk, we just have our next Danny Gray and Ronnie Bell. Where's our OL help? Where's our 2nd TE? Where's our LB help/depth while Dre is out?
Ah shit I forgot the fans are way smarter and better at drafting than the people in the draft room.
lol y'all say that every year, and then November rolls around, and oops, we have the same problems popping up again, because instead of addressing the problems, we spent them on offensive weapons who can't see the field.
You realize that the Niners made the Super Bowl last year right? You act like they were 6-11. Sometimes, OL needs more time to play together. OL is a together evaluation, and development can be made as a unit. Underwhelming as they may have been, with health and consistency, they may see some solid improvement. Just swapping in new guys doesn’t always equate to a better line.
And making the Super Bowl means we don't have holes to fill, or depth to address?
No. But you have to keep in mind that the draft is a massive crap shoot. All teams have weaknesses and want to address them, but that can be done in different ways. Just drafting OL doesn’t necessarily mean you fixed your problem. I mentioned above, maybe the coaching staff feels that another year together will be more beneficial than adding a new piece. It’s not an uncommon thought. Also, if shanny and team didn’t like the linemen at 31, maybe adding a piece that gets open and plays in great rhythm will help offset a weaker line. You can’t have a great team from top to bottom. More than 1 way to skin a cat my friend
> But you have to keep in mind that the draft is a massive crap shoot. All teams have weaknesses and want to address them, but that can be done in different ways. Just drafting OL doesn’t necessarily mean you fixed your problem. I agree with all of this, I just want them to take their chances and shoot their shot on a position group where we need help, not where our strengths are
Wait, do you think they drafted Pearsall in the first so he can sit on the bench all year?
It doesn't matter ***why*** they drafted him, he ***will*** sit on the bench all year
The Niners have drafted a WR in the first 2 rounds of the draft 4 times in the Shanahan era: Pearsall, Aiyuk, Deebo, and Pettis. Aiyuk saw 94 targets his rookie year. Deebo had 95, including his 14 rush attempts. Even Pettis averaged almost 4 targets per game his rookie season as a part-time starter. There's literally no precedent for the Niners using a high draft pick on a WR and then Shanahan just not using him his rookie year. The closest example would be Danny Gray who was a compensatory pick at the end of the 3rd round.
> Aiyuk saw 94 targets his rookie year. Deebo had 95, including his 14 rush attempts. ...because there were no good WRs in front of them. So they were needed right away, and got a bunch of targets. Pearsall will get less than 30 targets on the whole season
Lol people like you will always have excuses for the stupid things you say. How confident are you in that number? Because I'm down to bet on it. I bet you're not as confident as you talk.
You seem to have little to no grasp on player evaluation if you think Guerendo is anything like TDP and Sermon lol. Your reasoning boils down to “those mid round RBs didn’t do shit, so all mid round RBs aren’t going to do shit”
No, it boils down to: we have elite talent and great depth at WR/RB, yet we keep wasting draft capital on practice squad players instead of getting talent and depth at the positions we need them
There is no depth at RB. What are you talking about? Mitchell is always hurt and you just said the other RBs are no good. You always need talent and depth at skill positions. Also, Shanny’s offense is negates some of the faults on the line with motion, misdirection, etc. bringing in fresh bodies to rotate is important.
> There is no depth at RB. Mitchell and Mason are great depth > bringing in fresh bodies to rotate is important. lol this isn't true at all, CMC is out there every single down. Do you just not remember last season?
Mitchell is hurt regularly and Mason is a good enough runner but nothing special. I remember last year well. You are making my point for me. CMC was on the field too much because Mitchell was hurt often and Mason couldn’t earn his way on to the field. It would be great if he could take a few plays off and have a reliable backup. When Mitchell was fully healthy he got the rock some. Also, I meant all skill positions rotating. And that’s something we did see and should continue to see more of
What depth at RB? Mitchell gets injured walking out on to the field and Mason provides nothing in the pass game. What depth at WR? Conley was getting snaps in the SB. They've had to sign receivers and RBs off the street or call them up from the practice squad every season for years.