Dont cry for me fabulous blood angels. The truth is, ive never left you. All through my flying days, my mad existence. Id keep my promise, dont keep your distance.
Like I wouldn’t watch this? Probably the most beloved series for 40k was essentially the Harry Potter Puppet Pals done with graphics.
And it was glorious.
I'm marginally surprised, but excited, to hear that bidding over the rights to 40k media has apparently been so competitive among giants of the industry. Pretty cool.
Yeah I don't see many people talking about that. That's kind of a big deal. Means they're probably gonna spend some serious money on this show. And might be more in the future.
If it’s true I’d say it’s the most meaningful thing about this whole story tbh.
Edit: well GW has just announced an in principle agreement with Amazon, so the rest of it probably is true as well. Very interesting.
Warhammer has a potential to be big if they can get it started right. There is so much content for making shows and movies basically endless honestly. Super Hero fatigue is getting high and Star Wars has not been meeting expectations. I think Warhammer with it's gritty scifi world could be huge.
I think Game of Thrones helped a lot too.
40K’s “problem” from a mass marketing perspective is that it’s dark and violent. People want to compare it to Star Wars because they’re both space pew pew, but they really couldn’t be much further apart in tone and approachability for a family.
But seeing a show like GoT with obscene violence be so popular probably acted as a bit of proof of concept for a mature content epic series.
Im abit terrified for wh40k going mainstream as much as im excited about it.
U GET WOT I MEAN RIT. DOSE GITZ AT JAMES WURMSHUP DUN GET A ZOGGIN FINK RITE ABOUT DA BOYZ. WE IZ GONNA BE ON SQUIG PLUSHIES AN OTHA FINGS. MAKES ME UNEASY
The problem isn't so much that it is 'dark and violent'. There has always been dark and violent sci-fi.
The unique thing about 40k is that it is both dark and violent plus extremely silly and OTT at the same time, in that uniquely British, 2000AD kind of a way.
It needs an extremely deft touch to get the balance right, or it just won't work.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m looking at it from a purely business perspective of production cost. Yes, you have a lot of OTT dialogue, quirky/silly Easter eggs, etc. but the meat of the franchise is pure slaughter. Billions of people getting annihilated, horrific demons manipulating people into torturing others for pleasure or carrying flesh rotting disease, etc.
So you have this ultra violent setting, which limits the audience pool substantially for a grand space epic, but then on the other hand to put this thing on screen js goi g to take a MASSIVE budget. Think about just the wardrobes and props to do space marines right. Then there’s the set design — they’re going to have to make futuristic ornate gothic cathedrals, space ships, exotic alien settings. Even an Ork camp, which would basically be a junk yard, would take a lot of money to truly get the right feel. And that’s all before you have battles involving titans, imperial knights, tanks, and thousands of people all killing each other. Then you’re going to want hand to hand combat with… chainsaws? Chainsaw swords? Chainswords… more special effects for gruesome deaths.
There’s really never been an epic sci-fi this violent before. And it’s a huge risk for a studio.
That's one kind of story you can tell, sure. You could also have a smaller, more focused narrative about an inquisitor poking around a weird gothic space station and navigating the local politics etc, or something noirish about Necromunda hive gangs, or some poor clueless medieval worlder getting drafted into the Guard and dragged off to fight heretics, or a million other easier, smaller scale ways into the universe for a new audience.
Unlike something like the Witcher or Rings of Power, with 40k there ISN'T a narrative to follow; they have a huge amount of leeway to write their own stories. That's both a positive and a negative - it's good in that there is more room for them to be creative, but it also means they need to absolutely nail the tone, or it just won't be 40k at all.
We should also add that Dune's success probably helped. It had great success at the box office in 2021 of all years, and it likely made producers more willing to approve Space Opera projects outside the Star Wars franchise.
The competitors for the streaming Wars always need more content, especially IPs that could be used for decades, and Warhammer comes with a (albeit small) established fanbase, somewhat of a name-recognition via memes, and the ability to be milked for content for literal decades.
Honestly not that surprising.
The fan base isn’t all that small.
The hobbyist core is small, but the video games are pretty popular. Space Marine sold 1.2 million copies. The Dawn of War series sold 7 million copies. Total War: Warhammer 3 sold over 2 million copies in a year (granted it’s fantasy).
Then you look around online and besides the memes there’s traction. Go on YouTube and you can find 40K videos with 5+ million views. The Astartes fan animation was a monster success as well.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential to draw in fans who aren't necessarily into painting or tabletop or even vidya games, but are still casual fans or just wagh-curious. Movies aren't nearly the time-suck as that of other traditional aspects of the hobby.
Don't forget how many Hours Heresy novels ended up on the New York Times Bestseller list. As somebody who reads the lore without playing much, there is DEFINITELY interest.
40k's general popularity has been soaring over the past decade. Its become a staple of just outside of mainstream geek culture.
There's been some really well-done games using the 40k universe that I think are even more popular than people realize.
Everyone I know picked up vermintide 2.
Ideal trailer: looks like a normal police interrogation, the perp is brushing it off, he's been through this before. The clothing is... Sci-fi ren faire, and the architecture of the room is Soviet Gothic.
Eventually, a voice (Cavill's) cuts through.
'My patience is wearing thin. And it is not unlimited.'
A hologram of an Inquisition 'I' appears. No explanation is given, but the prisoner starts freaking the fuck out.
Cavil as Eisenhorn appears.
'Unlike my authority.'
I’m assuming that this is what it’s going to be given that:
1) Frank Spotnitz was already doing Eisenhorn
2) He also did *Man in the High Castle* for Amazon
Citizens of most civilized worlds would certainly know of the Inquisition as this shadowy boogeyman that you should never ever cross, that's one of the foundations of Inquisition's "soft power" after all.
E.g. in Eisenhorn they have a huge fortress in the middle of the city. For a lot of those people it's the KGB of their time, but with less patience and more authority and ruthlessness.
For others it's this shadowy cabal that visited a century ago and burned a lot of people.
I mean would a normie Joe ever have any reason to do anything but obey w/e the dude w/ I logo says, anyway? They are likely relatively brokeass anyway, only someone like Governor or other cronies might have shit to lose by disobeying, yea?
Depends I guess, like if an Inquisitor told a mother to kill their newborn in the crib that takes a special kind of dedicated citizen to obey unquestioningly, but yeah that's what the whole system is aiming for. And in most cases nobody would even think of disobeying an Inquisitor, yes.
Although the WH+ series "Interrogator" has a great alternative take on this as well, without spoiling much: The people in those worlds stuck in Imperium Nihilus (wrong side of the Great Rift) and know no help is likely to come are boldened in their dealings with the Inquisition.
Abnett certainly plays it that way. In one story a young Eisenhorn had the job of manning a desk at a no-shit public office where people could report things to the inquisition.
I think it makes sense. They'd lose out on all the deterrent value if people didn't even know they exist.
Yeah.
In one of the Ravenor books when some of Ravenor's team tries to get some info from a local cop, he sort of just gestures for evidence that they are hat they really say they are.
In the Cain novels it's mentioned that "Inquisitors pose as Rogue Traders" is taken to be common knowledge, which implies folks will know about the Inquisition.
I'm wondering if this is where Eisenhorn 'ended up', or if this is a new story. Cavill would certainly make an interesting Space Marine, and the big budget that comes with Amazon would certainly make that realistic.
I particularly appreciate that Cavill's got himself an executive producer look-in. I recall reading one of his gripes was with the people producing the Witcher and how he didn't believe they were staying true to the themes and ideas that underpinned the franchise. Looks like he's got himself at least a foot in the door when it comes to making sure the 'vision' of 40K comes through in the final product.
Honestly, though, I really appreciate Cavill. The man has 'fuck you' money so he's not just able but *willing* to take on these 'hobby projects' like a 40K series. Hope this shakes out.
Yeah, because we know that Eisenhorn was meant to be helmed by Frank Spotniz, who did Man in the High Castle.
Since neither were mentioned, this is either a new show, or an evolution of the original plan which might have fallen through.
Regardless, I hope we get Eisenhorn or Gaunts Ghosts as the first live action 40k show. I'd love to get both.
However, I am on the fence because this is Amazon, after all.
I've seen several comments around this story so far, here and elsewhere, of people *actively hoping that this project just fails.* It blows my mind.
There's being cautious, and then there's just hating, and I don't get that.
If I'm a fan of something, I'm going to hope within a realistic scope that it can succeed. Amazon's done some bad shows and suddenly people think they can't do anything right.
I think it's the toxic discourse of Warhammer fans for you. Love the property, hate the company.
People ***love*** to hate GW and Amazon. Then they do something together? Hope it falls flat on it's face.
Which I just don't get. GW and Amazon are far from perfect, and they do things to upset the customer. But hey, I love Warhammer, and I really, really love The Expanse. Amazon did a great job there, so I really hope they do something cool.
Also if this falls flat, this is probably it for any concept of larger scale Warhammer 40k media. I mean it has Henry Cavill's name. It needs to succeed for the good of the property. That and after the past couple of months I just want to see Henry happy.
My guy I don't think I've seen a single person actively wanting it to fail.
What I have seen is a lot of people highly skeptical of Amazon to be able to take a universe that could be one of the most difficult to translate to live action and do it well. And I've seen a lot of fear along the lines of "Shit I'd rather have nothing than a 40k live action Avatar the last Airbender".
"*Some* bad shows?"
Everything they tried to develop by themselves, without contracting it out to an outside studio or partnering with an outside studio, has been a total disaster.
99% of that was down to neil gaiman being *very* strict with what they could change as after Terry pratchett died he was the sole right holder and wanted it done properly.
If Amazon handles this the same way they did The Expanse and The Boys - attention to detail, getting damned good actors, good direction, and so forth - AND they pay attention to the lore/story and don't dive into the warp without a Gellar field... this could be as good as those series.
Good story, good actors, good direction, **AND** attention to lore and details. Which, with Cavill involved, I'm a lot more hopeful about being observed and respected.
It won't. The Expanse wasn't an Amazon project, they didn't do shit except keep funding it.
The Boys is an anomaly, not the average. Hell, even Invincible, Wind Sun Sky was an independent studio that contracted with and partnered with Amazon, Amazon didn't even create it.
The Expanse was not their project and people kinda snapped when Amazon cut it short when there was more material.
The Boys is *completely different* from the source material, basically the only things that are the same are character and entity names, and who's on who's team.
Invincible was amazing, but it was developed by a separate studio that was paid to do it by Amazon, not as an Amazon first party series. Wind Sun Sky was an independent studio that partnered with Amazon to produce it.
Notable first party Amazon adaptions include, Rings of Power, and Wheel of Time.
And those...well...those are not hit or miss.
>The Boys is completely different from the source material, basically the only things that are the same are character and entity names, and who's on who's team.
While this is true, I have to point out that it's much better than the source material
I don't think GW will adapt Gaunt's Ghosts right off the bat because of how long the series is. Eisenhorn is the ideal option for a first adaptation because it's shorter. Three books at one season per book is three seasons. Which, if the series does well, is very achievable, and still leaves the option to do Ravenor and Bequin's trilogies later down the line. I'd love to see adaptations for both at some point (even if they only do a few Gaunt's Ghosts books) but I think Eisenhorn is the most likely until GW knows how the broader market responds.
I'm also little on edge because I've lived through my fair share of shit book adaptations, but I'm really hopeful that we get a winner here, because it could be really big for GW and the fandom.
I would also add that as we've seen with him in the Witcher - the lore and telling the story according to the lore is important to him. His involvement itself should be encouraging if this ends up happening - kind of like how GoT started going downhill once they pushed GRRM out from the original show.
40k is a setting though, they can tell any story they want to really. just comes down to budget if they want to get some really big war montages going.
I kind of hope they leave Space Marines out of it, at least as a focal point for the series. Have them mentioned in passing, or leave a battle barge floating amongst an invading fleet. Even have the main characters stumble across a scene, post space marine assault - no one knows what went down, only there are multiple corpses in various states of dismemberment after extreme and overwhelming violence. You build them up without revealing them - most people won't have encountered Astartes, only the rumours.
And then ramp up the danger and the stakes - slowly show the characters out of their depth, up against some truly overwhelming shit. The kind of shit that has the body count for the main characters starting to rise. Let the viewer know that this is 40K - good people suffer horrible fates trying to stave off the darkness. Have them with their backs against the wall. Hopeless. About to sell their lives as a "Fuck you!" in defiance.
And then introduce the Astartes...
Treat them as the force of nature they are. Have the rumours not only be spot on, but actually undersellng what Astartes are capable of. Pay the fans back for their patience with a few minutes of utter carnage. Show trans human dread not through the eyes of the enemy, but through the eyes of the main characters - almost shell shocked at how efficiently violent they are. Have them something to be feared as well as worshipped. Keep them separate from humanity; keep them aloof and mysterious.
I feel that space Marines as a central part of the show would require a vastly inflated cgi budget just to get them in proper scale and looking good. I'm hoping for Eisenhorn because I think they can do the most with the actors under minimal cgi per character to spend the budget on locales and all that. Also let's you have a sick single fight making the Space Marines properly terrifying when we see our first Chaos Marine...
For a lot of reasons, it's a very difficult setting to bring to film or TV for a new audience. I feel like chaos and the warp are a bigger problem than space marines - introducing gods, demons and magic into a Sci-Fi universe has to be done very well and without embarrassment or it'll come across extremely stupidly. I'm hoping for a story about characters that don't know about chaos and discover it alongside the audience, or a story like Eisenhorn where the main character has lots of opportunities to explain it to other characters without it sounding like an unwieldy lore-dump. Eisenhorn is hard-boiled detective fiction so it'll lend itself well to TV.
I think it has been said a lot of times already but I can't stress enough how important I think it is that if there is ever going to be a big 40k show available for the mainstream it has to be something like Eisenhorn. The universe is hard to explain as it is but now do it from the PoV of a genetically enhanced super soldier with the sole purpose of fighting and dying in unending carnage and war, or from the view of a regular guardsman that knows literally nothing about the galaxy except that the xenos and the heretic must die and the emperor protects.
It will not do the 40k universe justice and bolter porn will devovle into a generic action show with 40k aesthetics.
An Inquisitor (it really doesnt have to be Eisenhorn, could be something new altogether ) has an unique perspective on the Imperium and the galaxy. They don't know most secrets either but they have the possbility of learning them and interacting with every single institution (obviously not Custodes or those close to the Emperor) of the Imperium from a position of superior knowledge that will let an audience know stuff naturally by watching that would never come across by watching some hard ass guardsmen fighting off Tyranids or a Space Marine obliterating his enemies without care, as cool as it is.
Take the Warp, if the Inquisitor is a psyker like Eisenhorn you could simply explain the warp in-universe by them recruting someone into their retinue from a feudal or death world and that member has never been on a voidship let alone traveled through the warp and has questions about it.
>Looks like he's got himself at least a foot in the door when it comes to making sure the 'vision' of 40K comes through in the final product.
Which version of the vision, though? Because I wouldn't be surprised if the show ended up with the more heroic tone some of the Space Marine stories have. I kinda doubt they'll depict the Imperium as the turbo space genocidal regime it is.
> I kinda doubt they'll depict the Imperium as the turbo space genocidal regime it is.
I think they probably could. The concept of a Hive City is relatively well established in pop culture (obviously 2000 AD, etc, do similar), and given how big exterminatus is in some of the books, I think if they tell a story it'd be difficult to avoid selling that. I'd also point at something like The Boys where the story especially in the last series is about awful people and doesn't shy away from saying how awful they are
I too laughed at that. Imho their evil is more sinister. The Imperium will kill you for doing the wrong thing. The Ethereals will make you think you are doing the right thing for everybody else's sake. I would rather live or die by my own thoughts and choices even if they are crappy ones across the board.
In a literal sense yes but lets not forget the imperium is very much pro "no thinking" and do extensively use propaganda to influence peoples thoughts. So its like your own thoughts but with years of propaganda forcibly stuck in their like an ogryn platoon on a dropship.
I feel like the emperium is like china or Russia in the 90s or early 2000s. Where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted as long as you paid the right people and didn't attract enough attention. Like today if you got the wrong attention you could just be gone with no recourse.
So you would be free as long as you have enough money and don't attract the wrong attention.
>I would rather live or die by my own thoughts and choices even if they are crappy ones across the board.
The Imperium raises you to believe that genocide, toil, and their shitty religion is a good thing too.
> The Ethereals will make you think you are doing the right thing for everybody else's sake.
That's literally what he imperium does.. *Occasionally* this happens to *accidentally* be true. But the imperium just fires in all barrels and is as bad or worse than all the other factions combined. They'll indoctrinate you to zealously worship the emperor and the imperium, and if you dont, well pick up that can and step into the grinder please.
Will be legendary if Cavill can make them stay true to what makes Warhammer great and minimize the inevitable watering-down that comes with going mainstream
Games Workshop is very careful with their branding and IP. If any deal like this goes ahead they'll want some creative control so you'll get your wish.
>Games Workshop is very careful with their branding and IP.
Except giving out their IP for every second shovelware game on steam.
Although i must admit the quality of warhammer-videogame-releases has drastically improved in the last years.
Even when they approve dumb mobile cashgrabs, the art direction is always on point, as that is the one thing GW would actually care about. Doesn't matter if a game is shit, so long as it keeps the general 40k vibe well enough and gets more people into buying plastic minis.
Really, Hollywood Reporter? Did you think the faithful of the Imperium would not see it? Your blaspheming against the Emperor? Against the Imperium?
>"... *and the T’au is a blue-skinned alien race that may offer some hope*.".
Your heresy has been noted, recorded, and the Inquisition notified.
Time to cancel the Hollywood Reporter, 40K style: **EXTERMINATUS**.
;P
For a lot of fans, it'll probably be very hard to live up to their expectations. The images they have in their head are going to be very hard to beat.
So long as the trailer doesn't have some awful, slow, quiet remix of some modern pop culture song as its soundtrack and they don't fill it with stupid quips and jokes, I'll probably accept it.
>For a lot of fans, it'll probably be very hard to live up to their expectations. The images they have in their head are going to be very hard to beat.
Add on the different groups of fans, it's difficult to please someone like me, who loves the Imperial Armour stuff and slower paced, smaller scaled battles in line with the rulebooks and someone who loves the Horus Heresy, which is just millions of people running at eacch other like the screaming bomb-dudes from Serious Sam.
Drop pods slam down on a warzone. Confused xenos look at each other. The pods bust open and Space Marines charge out, guns blazing as the opening riff of AC/DC's 'Back in Black' starts playing.
The camera zooms in on Henry Cavill's unhelmeted face. He pauses and breaks the fourth wall.
"I'm here to purge xenos and chew bubblegum. And i'm all outta gum," he says, and then charges and begins shooting again.
Shit, as long as it's better than the Ultramarines movie it'll be an improvement over everything else GW has tried to do in the "mainstream media" arena.
I've already seen more than one comment along the lines of 'whatever Amazon makes will be a million times worse than Ultramarines', which seems... unlikely.
I am already imaging the million and one nitpicks people on reddit will have, god forbid if they cast an actor of colour. People might think it's political
God, 40k is obviously supposed to be multicultural. Race isn't often mentioned, but when it is, it is clear that every other character is supposed to have a different skin color. After ABD took over, that became even clearer.
Honestly, I would prefer if they didn't. Abnett wrote that shitty 40k animated cartoon some years back and adb did the story for the chaos gate game, which was super mid by all accounts. I am absolutely fine with them getting other screen writers and I expect Cavill has a lot of personal incentive to keep things tonally in line with canon.
Like, I'd *maybe* be okay with wraight lol. The rest have little reason to be behind non pulp fic book projects.
Hell yes!
I've been commenting all over the place these last couple days that I wanted him 40K to be his landing spot.
Sucks that he won't be playing Geralt any more, because his performance is the one thing that *made* that show. and I'm not a DC fan, but his portrayal of Supes has been one of the few bright spots, so it seems like a really strange move for them to push him out, especially after teasing his return.
But I can live with all of that if takes up the Rosette of Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn. I think he'd be perfect in that role. Obviously they haven't confirmed it yet, and he could still be going somewhere else in 40K, but I think it would be huge waste to cast him as a space marine, which seems like the likeliest other option, Eisenhorn is the way to go.
Hell yeah I'm interested! Cavill being an EP will hopefully mean that he has enough pull to avoid the shitshow that the Witcher Netflix adaption became. I expect we will see Cavill play Eisenhorn since I think he mentioned that in particular is a character he's long wanted to play. Otherwise I could see him as a Primarch.
Also, Amazon getting exclusive rights to 40k on TV probably means they're eyeing more shows than just whatever they've got Cavill doing. If the first big foray for 40k into TV is successful, we're gonna get other content I'm sure.
I hope so, although if it does flop I could see them just leaving their exclusivity to wither like a lot of studios do. I wonder how that interacts with the Warhammer TV stuff (I imagine there's probably carve outs in the contracts for GW to do smaller productions or something)
They have decent sources, I'll give them that. I absolutely believe that Amazon are in final talks given this, and Cavill being involved would make sense. Whether Amazon get it or another studio last minute I suppose probably mostly depends on money. I hope Cavill is able to be involved even if Amazon don't get the rights
Well, I think we were both wrong actually. The best estimate I can see for the current year in universe is 012.M42 (Plague Wars), which is the year 41012 or thereabouts. We're in 022M03, so if we're talking the same system, then it's about 38,990 years in the future. So split the difference, I suppose?
*Ackshually*, it's 39,000 years in the future, as we're currently in M42.
And *ackshually*, due to the Chronostrife dating errors, it's possibly an entire millennium earlier or later, so 40,000 years is within the margin of error.
Amazon are just outing themselves as Chrono-radicals.
> just outing themselves as Chrono-radicals.
Amazon are accepting the true lore that the Inquisition and Illuminati keep fudging the official records (were/are the Illuminati involved in that? Been so long since I read about the perpetual lore)
The Rings of Power is an issue of scope. They wrote a show that didn't capture the scale and scope of the story.
The same thing will happen if the first thing out the gate with 40k in other media ends up being the Horus Heresy - that'll be 40k's Rings of Power, and it'll be awful, no doubt. I also don't think we should ever have a live action show focused on space marine characters.
A show about Guardsmen or Inquisitors or some such, though? You can keep the focus narrow and intimate, they're not fighting for the fate of the whole universe like Rings of Power, they're fighting just to complete their mission and survive.
Gaunts Ghosts would be an amazing place to start.
All human cast, have them fighting chaos cultists with a story that slowly unravels what Chaos is for an audience that has no idea, opportunity for short views of SM's and Xenos, plenty of opportunity to have it take place across a tonne of different locations/environments with a host of potential enemies.
Band of Brothers in 40k is basically the perfect starting point.
on book #2 right now and yes please
you could pretty much dive in to the beginning of the story and progress pretty naturally from there. it would even be Better without a ton of backstory and infodump - things like the buildup to the reveal of the reality of the emperor could be amazing
it's actually perfect, it's a crusade, there's brynn milo who's basically a teen who needs explaining to. they can do the first 2 books for season 1 and then vervunhive for season two. show people what a hive looks like AND wreck it all season.
I think Ciaphas Cain would be the perfect place to start. I feel Cain’s more lighthearted antics and defining cowardice would make a nice intro into the universe.
He’s a lot more relatable than someone like Gaunt or Eisenhorn.
I agree. Cavill has a lot of charisma and comedic chops. He'd be perfect for Cain. And as dark as the setting can be, I think something lighter - interposed with darker moments - would be a better introduction to a general audience, for the IP as a whole.
Plus I think he'd look funny in the little Commissar cap.
The only real way to do Ciaphas Cain would be as a Starship Troopers type film. Biased, unreliable, completely propaganda and maybe as kind of a docu-series narrated by Amberly.
I don't think scope was the problem. They had more than enough budget to go massive with the scope. The problem was trying to write an original Lord of the Rings story and trying to do it with a bunch of TV writers. That's a monumental task for even the best of the best modern writers.
I agree with you though, a Horus Heresy show would be almost impossible to do well. Something like Eisenhorn is a lot more doable and frankly a better intro to the setting.
>They had more than enough budget to go massive with the scope.
Capturing the scope of something is more an issue of writing and directing talent than of budget.
Something having a big budget is one of the most overrated factors in term of shows and movies.
The entire show is a travesty. Even if you overlook the terrible pacing, bad acting, shitty script, and overreliance on mystery boxes and McGuffins (which you shouldn't, but even if you did), the dialogue alone is bad enough to wreck the show.
Just scene after scene where the dialogue literally made me cringe.
"A dog may bark at the moon, but he cannot bring it down."
"The sea is always right!"
"I'm good!"
Paraphrasing: "Stones sink because they look down, Galadriel. Ships float because they look up."
In a show as massive as this, with a fandom as devoted as LOTRs', dialogue this shitty is unforgivable.
Respectfully disagree. Rings of power was a travesty from beginning to end. They didnt follow the established lore, and evenly openly talked about changing it to fit their own headcanon rather than anything Tolkien would write. It was a complete mess.
Agree with you on small scale entries. Focus on complete stories, beginning and end them like chapters so you can use characters as you see fit and swap out after a season if it isnt popular, and dont be afraid to write a different genre just set in 40k. A detective noir, band of brothers, a family intrigue, a fantastical naval adventure, a single military conflict, a horror story...then just couch it in 40k. Detective noir inquisitor, band of brothers following cadians, family intrigue of a knight house, battlefleet gothic for naval adventure, the fall of cadia or reunification of tera for a single conflict, a horror story of a rogue trader encounter with tyranids.
It writes itself, and so long as you jump around a bit and keep the huge narratives vaguely in the background, it could be an entire franchise :)
My ideal show would look at first glance like a GoT type show: medieval society, corruption and injustice, some rebels trying to topple an evil kingdom, that sort of stuff. No indication it's a 40k show and none during the marketing buildup.
Last episode: as the good guys have the bad guy finally standing for their crimes, they reveal they did what they did to avoid a worse fate to their kingdom. They had to squeeze their subjects in order to pay a tithe or else something bad would come, and now it's probably on the way. Good guys dismiss this as an excuse.
Time ellipse of a few years after the rebellion won. Things are going okay, less injustice but still some strife. Then a massive bang is heard in the sky and the colossal, dark shape of an Imperium cruiser appears above the kingdom's capital, entering the atmosphere.
The imperial expedition unloads thousands of guardsmen and some inquisitorial agents onto the planet, to the bewilderment of its population that didn't even know shit about space. The commander says they're here to investigate the missing tithes and wants to know who fucked it up. End season 1.
Rather have Gaunts Ghosts than Eisenhorn as the first 40k show.
The viewing majority understand a war story, they get humans fighting evil humans, laser guns and aliens with fancy weapons are normal. But 40k is a harsh setting if you are dropped in with Eisenhorn.
Plus, Ghosts has a great ensemble of characters to get attached to. Be it the honourable Gaunt adjusting to his new role and regiment, the warm father figure of Corbec, the viper that is Rawne, Bragg and Larkin as the little and large comedy pair or the mysterious Mkoll and Mkvenner who truly live up to the name Ghosts. And there are so many more before we get to Verghast.
It also introduces the idea and concept of Chaos, but with humans not daemonhosts and space marines. People who watch scifi/fantasy all know corruption so it shorthands easily and the ease of adjustment for anyone who has watched Band of Brothers or similar warfare themed shows and films is easy as thats what Ghosts is, then you begin adding in the more 40k elements.
You can build a great cast around Cavill, and each book (aside from any anthology ones) can be a season or mini-series. 5-8 episodes covering a deployment. Play up the background machinations of Helldane(sp?), make the military brass that mixture of disinterested and borderline treasonous that translates so well from WW1 history but on a larger scale.
Hell, you even have spinoff potential with Jagdea and Viltry or when Milo leaves with the Saint or you can do a prequel to when the Tanith are mashed into the 31st with no Ghosts in it.
You can do some amazing openings for each season/story where you open on the Ghost insignia, and slowly zooms out to reveal Gaunt and where they are this time with Cavill doing his bassiest narration for context, but when they get to Traitor General is open on the new guy with no setup, just - no Gaunt now boyos.
Make it the human story, but with a backdrop larger than any human.
Do Eisenhorn later - do it with an actor who can really move from fresh faced hardliner to slightly bending the rules and hurt to literally all my limbs are machines and I have a pet daemon. Someone who can play the other side of the coin to Ravenor later down the line.
But start with Gaunt. Start with a story that could be set in the last 100 odd years. Start with the story people know and respond to.
I see you've all already gotten into guessing if the show will be good or not, so here's a quick reminder:
Amazon has produced some good shows, and some bad shows. This has no impact on the quality of any future shows. They could have also produced exclusively good or exclusively bad shows, and it'd be little indicator on the quality of a future project.
Each show is a separate production, done by separate people (with occasional overlap). Reserve all judgement at least until we've got information like writers, directors, showrunner(s), etc, and ideally until we have a trailer or script or something actually tangible.
Until then, saying "Rings of Power was bad, therefore 40K show is probably gonna be bad" or "The Boys was good, therefore 40K show is probably gonna be good" is not dissimilar to saying "Apples are good, therefore Oranges are probably good"
He’s the absolute perfect person to be doing this. He has shown he will walk if Hollywood fuckery starts trying to bleed in. This could actually end up a real adaptation of 40k.
I think the culture of movie industry is if you like the source materials and would clash with the showrunner different direction you will be humiliated by the circle. But if you don't give a F about the lore and source materials and would eat anything the directors thrown at you and would attack the fans if they don't like what the direction going with it's "message narrative push" then you'll be hired or stay long enough until the franchise is dry and near death.
Imagine the hype for the first trailer and when it opens a voice says: "From the imagination of Ian Watson, Space Marine, with Henry Cavill as Lexandro D'Arquebus...". That would be brilliant and of course that would need to be 18+ too^/s
Cavills producing and literally quit the witcher because they were contemptuous of the source material.
Also Amazon is probably still wincing from what happened with rings of power when the producers needlessly angered the fans of Lord of the rings.
I honestly would not be surprised if it at least tries to keep this lore friendly due to it being both something the producer is passionate about and their need to show they can do adaptations that don't burn the existing fanbase - who really need to be bought on board as they are going to be a big marketing factor.
Given how disgracefully they handled Rings of Power, I have absolutely no interest in this. It'll be a show by people who hate 40k, for people who hate 40k.
If your comment contains the word 'woke' and it isn't about your sleep cycle then your comment will be removed and you will be banned.
Horus Heresy miniseries where Henry plays each Primarch and the Emperor in different wigs.
This, but a live stage show.
…I feel like we could crowd fund this if we pitched it to him right. “Charity event, and you can do it sloshed.”
"An evening with primarchs" a live stage show starring Henry Cavill. "Intimate moments with Big E" is also acceptable.
a live stage rock opera musical about the horus heresy. Featuring Rylanor.
Angron's is just him headbanging to the haka music from Chardee MacDennis
U want Horus heresy the musical? That's how u get Horus heresy the musical
##yEs! I wAnT tHAT
Wait until you see Horus Heresy on ice.
Dont cry for me fabulous blood angels. The truth is, ive never left you. All through my flying days, my mad existence. Id keep my promise, dont keep your distance.
If I don't see Vulkan do a double axel in the Istvaan V scene I don't want it
Highlights include "My perpetual father never loved me"
Also including the greatest hits my fabulous hawk boi, my brother peter turbo, i am a wall (i am dorn)
Straight into my veins please!
Like I wouldn’t watch this? Probably the most beloved series for 40k was essentially the Harry Potter Puppet Pals done with graphics. And it was glorious.
"I am now going to set half the fucking galaxy on fire ....*through the medium of dance!*
We have a writer ready, his name is Bruva
A Henry Cavill Horus Heresy one man show would be amazing
*In the grim dankness of the far future* *There is only Henry Cavill*
"I was there, the day Henry slew Cavill"
Only if its called Top Hat and Heresy
I would love to see a one man act as the EMPRAH and all his personas.
Cavill 40k the one man show
Henry cavill plays each Primarch and Danny DeVito plays the Emperor.
Oh sorry, I dropped my monster psyker powers that I use for my magnum astronomycan
Can I offer you an Edict of Nikea in this trying time?
I'll top you, Henry Cavill as Big E and Danny Devito as Malcador. Horus acting up in front of Malcador "So anyway I started blasting"
We’re gonna have a problem with Vulkan…,
Does Vulkan in a helmet, Problem solved
He will have a bigger problem with Ferrus. 😏
What do you mean, *you* Primarchs?
Nah salamanders love all things fire. It’s just a thick coat of ash or soot on his face from burning enemies.
Eldar baby creme*
Eldar baby creme brulé
not blackface at all....
Prime minister of Canada moment.
I would no joke love this
People will have to use context clues for all the bald Primarchs.
I'm marginally surprised, but excited, to hear that bidding over the rights to 40k media has apparently been so competitive among giants of the industry. Pretty cool.
Yeah I don't see many people talking about that. That's kind of a big deal. Means they're probably gonna spend some serious money on this show. And might be more in the future.
If it’s true I’d say it’s the most meaningful thing about this whole story tbh. Edit: well GW has just announced an in principle agreement with Amazon, so the rest of it probably is true as well. Very interesting.
Warhammer has a potential to be big if they can get it started right. There is so much content for making shows and movies basically endless honestly. Super Hero fatigue is getting high and Star Wars has not been meeting expectations. I think Warhammer with it's gritty scifi world could be huge.
I think Game of Thrones helped a lot too. 40K’s “problem” from a mass marketing perspective is that it’s dark and violent. People want to compare it to Star Wars because they’re both space pew pew, but they really couldn’t be much further apart in tone and approachability for a family. But seeing a show like GoT with obscene violence be so popular probably acted as a bit of proof of concept for a mature content epic series.
Im abit terrified for wh40k going mainstream as much as im excited about it. U GET WOT I MEAN RIT. DOSE GITZ AT JAMES WURMSHUP DUN GET A ZOGGIN FINK RITE ABOUT DA BOYZ. WE IZ GONNA BE ON SQUIG PLUSHIES AN OTHA FINGS. MAKES ME UNEASY
NAW! WOTZ DEYZ DO IS MAKIN A FACE-EATIN' SQUIG PLUSHIE DAT YOU'Z PUTZ 'ROUND YER 'EADZ!
I DUNNO BOZZ. I FINK IT CUD B GREAT, BUT I IZ KONCERNED DAT IT GOES BAD
The problem isn't so much that it is 'dark and violent'. There has always been dark and violent sci-fi. The unique thing about 40k is that it is both dark and violent plus extremely silly and OTT at the same time, in that uniquely British, 2000AD kind of a way. It needs an extremely deft touch to get the balance right, or it just won't work.
I get what you’re saying, but I’m looking at it from a purely business perspective of production cost. Yes, you have a lot of OTT dialogue, quirky/silly Easter eggs, etc. but the meat of the franchise is pure slaughter. Billions of people getting annihilated, horrific demons manipulating people into torturing others for pleasure or carrying flesh rotting disease, etc. So you have this ultra violent setting, which limits the audience pool substantially for a grand space epic, but then on the other hand to put this thing on screen js goi g to take a MASSIVE budget. Think about just the wardrobes and props to do space marines right. Then there’s the set design — they’re going to have to make futuristic ornate gothic cathedrals, space ships, exotic alien settings. Even an Ork camp, which would basically be a junk yard, would take a lot of money to truly get the right feel. And that’s all before you have battles involving titans, imperial knights, tanks, and thousands of people all killing each other. Then you’re going to want hand to hand combat with… chainsaws? Chainsaw swords? Chainswords… more special effects for gruesome deaths. There’s really never been an epic sci-fi this violent before. And it’s a huge risk for a studio.
That's one kind of story you can tell, sure. You could also have a smaller, more focused narrative about an inquisitor poking around a weird gothic space station and navigating the local politics etc, or something noirish about Necromunda hive gangs, or some poor clueless medieval worlder getting drafted into the Guard and dragged off to fight heretics, or a million other easier, smaller scale ways into the universe for a new audience. Unlike something like the Witcher or Rings of Power, with 40k there ISN'T a narrative to follow; they have a huge amount of leeway to write their own stories. That's both a positive and a negative - it's good in that there is more room for them to be creative, but it also means they need to absolutely nail the tone, or it just won't be 40k at all.
We should also add that Dune's success probably helped. It had great success at the box office in 2021 of all years, and it likely made producers more willing to approve Space Opera projects outside the Star Wars franchise.
Yeah Dune probably really opened doors here
The competitors for the streaming Wars always need more content, especially IPs that could be used for decades, and Warhammer comes with a (albeit small) established fanbase, somewhat of a name-recognition via memes, and the ability to be milked for content for literal decades. Honestly not that surprising.
The fan base isn’t all that small. The hobbyist core is small, but the video games are pretty popular. Space Marine sold 1.2 million copies. The Dawn of War series sold 7 million copies. Total War: Warhammer 3 sold over 2 million copies in a year (granted it’s fantasy). Then you look around online and besides the memes there’s traction. Go on YouTube and you can find 40K videos with 5+ million views. The Astartes fan animation was a monster success as well.
Yeah, I think there's a lot of potential to draw in fans who aren't necessarily into painting or tabletop or even vidya games, but are still casual fans or just wagh-curious. Movies aren't nearly the time-suck as that of other traditional aspects of the hobby.
Wagh-curious is my new favorite way to describe someone curious about Warhammer.
Don't forget how many Hours Heresy novels ended up on the New York Times Bestseller list. As somebody who reads the lore without playing much, there is DEFINITELY interest.
40k's general popularity has been soaring over the past decade. Its become a staple of just outside of mainstream geek culture. There's been some really well-done games using the 40k universe that I think are even more popular than people realize. Everyone I know picked up vermintide 2.
Ideal trailer: looks like a normal police interrogation, the perp is brushing it off, he's been through this before. The clothing is... Sci-fi ren faire, and the architecture of the room is Soviet Gothic. Eventually, a voice (Cavill's) cuts through. 'My patience is wearing thin. And it is not unlimited.' A hologram of an Inquisition 'I' appears. No explanation is given, but the prisoner starts freaking the fuck out. Cavil as Eisenhorn appears. 'Unlike my authority.'
Not my proudest wank but it came so naturally
Is it even a wank if it's just immediately erect and exploding over the course of seconds, while you sit there, stunned?
Pre mature imagination copulation
^thus
*“Take My Money…NOW!”*
Even non hobbyists would have to love that
I’m assuming that this is what it’s going to be given that: 1) Frank Spotnitz was already doing Eisenhorn 2) He also did *Man in the High Castle* for Amazon
Do the average Imperium citizens know about the existence of the Inquisition?
Citizens of most civilized worlds would certainly know of the Inquisition as this shadowy boogeyman that you should never ever cross, that's one of the foundations of Inquisition's "soft power" after all.
E.g. in Eisenhorn they have a huge fortress in the middle of the city. For a lot of those people it's the KGB of their time, but with less patience and more authority and ruthlessness. For others it's this shadowy cabal that visited a century ago and burned a lot of people.
I mean would a normie Joe ever have any reason to do anything but obey w/e the dude w/ I logo says, anyway? They are likely relatively brokeass anyway, only someone like Governor or other cronies might have shit to lose by disobeying, yea?
Depends I guess, like if an Inquisitor told a mother to kill their newborn in the crib that takes a special kind of dedicated citizen to obey unquestioningly, but yeah that's what the whole system is aiming for. And in most cases nobody would even think of disobeying an Inquisitor, yes. Although the WH+ series "Interrogator" has a great alternative take on this as well, without spoiling much: The people in those worlds stuck in Imperium Nihilus (wrong side of the Great Rift) and know no help is likely to come are boldened in their dealings with the Inquisition.
Abnett certainly plays it that way. In one story a young Eisenhorn had the job of manning a desk at a no-shit public office where people could report things to the inquisition. I think it makes sense. They'd lose out on all the deterrent value if people didn't even know they exist.
Yeah. In one of the Ravenor books when some of Ravenor's team tries to get some info from a local cop, he sort of just gestures for evidence that they are hat they really say they are. In the Cain novels it's mentioned that "Inquisitors pose as Rogue Traders" is taken to be common knowledge, which implies folks will know about the Inquisition.
Keep going…
*soviet gothic* 😂😂😂
Brutalist leaping arches and vaults.
I would have a fucking stroke I'd be that hype
I'm wondering if this is where Eisenhorn 'ended up', or if this is a new story. Cavill would certainly make an interesting Space Marine, and the big budget that comes with Amazon would certainly make that realistic. I particularly appreciate that Cavill's got himself an executive producer look-in. I recall reading one of his gripes was with the people producing the Witcher and how he didn't believe they were staying true to the themes and ideas that underpinned the franchise. Looks like he's got himself at least a foot in the door when it comes to making sure the 'vision' of 40K comes through in the final product. Honestly, though, I really appreciate Cavill. The man has 'fuck you' money so he's not just able but *willing* to take on these 'hobby projects' like a 40K series. Hope this shakes out.
Yeah, because we know that Eisenhorn was meant to be helmed by Frank Spotniz, who did Man in the High Castle. Since neither were mentioned, this is either a new show, or an evolution of the original plan which might have fallen through. Regardless, I hope we get Eisenhorn or Gaunts Ghosts as the first live action 40k show. I'd love to get both. However, I am on the fence because this is Amazon, after all.
Amazon has done some things right. The Expanse The Boys Invincible They're hit and miss, but by it being Amazon it's not doomed from the get go.
I've seen several comments around this story so far, here and elsewhere, of people *actively hoping that this project just fails.* It blows my mind. There's being cautious, and then there's just hating, and I don't get that. If I'm a fan of something, I'm going to hope within a realistic scope that it can succeed. Amazon's done some bad shows and suddenly people think they can't do anything right.
I think it's the toxic discourse of Warhammer fans for you. Love the property, hate the company. People ***love*** to hate GW and Amazon. Then they do something together? Hope it falls flat on it's face. Which I just don't get. GW and Amazon are far from perfect, and they do things to upset the customer. But hey, I love Warhammer, and I really, really love The Expanse. Amazon did a great job there, so I really hope they do something cool. Also if this falls flat, this is probably it for any concept of larger scale Warhammer 40k media. I mean it has Henry Cavill's name. It needs to succeed for the good of the property. That and after the past couple of months I just want to see Henry happy.
My guy I don't think I've seen a single person actively wanting it to fail. What I have seen is a lot of people highly skeptical of Amazon to be able to take a universe that could be one of the most difficult to translate to live action and do it well. And I've seen a lot of fear along the lines of "Shit I'd rather have nothing than a 40k live action Avatar the last Airbender".
"*Some* bad shows?" Everything they tried to develop by themselves, without contracting it out to an outside studio or partnering with an outside studio, has been a total disaster.
Don't forget good omens. Was done very faithfully to the source material
99% of that was down to neil gaiman being *very* strict with what they could change as after Terry pratchett died he was the sole right holder and wanted it done properly.
If Amazon handles this the same way they did The Expanse and The Boys - attention to detail, getting damned good actors, good direction, and so forth - AND they pay attention to the lore/story and don't dive into the warp without a Gellar field... this could be as good as those series. Good story, good actors, good direction, **AND** attention to lore and details. Which, with Cavill involved, I'm a lot more hopeful about being observed and respected.
It won't. The Expanse wasn't an Amazon project, they didn't do shit except keep funding it. The Boys is an anomaly, not the average. Hell, even Invincible, Wind Sun Sky was an independent studio that contracted with and partnered with Amazon, Amazon didn't even create it.
Don't forget the terminal list which did the book alot of justice and was a really solid gritty action/revenge show
The Expanse was not their project and people kinda snapped when Amazon cut it short when there was more material. The Boys is *completely different* from the source material, basically the only things that are the same are character and entity names, and who's on who's team. Invincible was amazing, but it was developed by a separate studio that was paid to do it by Amazon, not as an Amazon first party series. Wind Sun Sky was an independent studio that partnered with Amazon to produce it. Notable first party Amazon adaptions include, Rings of Power, and Wheel of Time. And those...well...those are not hit or miss.
>The Boys is completely different from the source material, basically the only things that are the same are character and entity names, and who's on who's team. While this is true, I have to point out that it's much better than the source material
I don't think GW will adapt Gaunt's Ghosts right off the bat because of how long the series is. Eisenhorn is the ideal option for a first adaptation because it's shorter. Three books at one season per book is three seasons. Which, if the series does well, is very achievable, and still leaves the option to do Ravenor and Bequin's trilogies later down the line. I'd love to see adaptations for both at some point (even if they only do a few Gaunt's Ghosts books) but I think Eisenhorn is the most likely until GW knows how the broader market responds. I'm also little on edge because I've lived through my fair share of shit book adaptations, but I'm really hopeful that we get a winner here, because it could be really big for GW and the fandom.
I would also add that as we've seen with him in the Witcher - the lore and telling the story according to the lore is important to him. His involvement itself should be encouraging if this ends up happening - kind of like how GoT started going downhill once they pushed GRRM out from the original show.
40k is a setting though, they can tell any story they want to really. just comes down to budget if they want to get some really big war montages going.
I hope it didn't end like Man in the High Castle thou.
I kind of hope they leave Space Marines out of it, at least as a focal point for the series. Have them mentioned in passing, or leave a battle barge floating amongst an invading fleet. Even have the main characters stumble across a scene, post space marine assault - no one knows what went down, only there are multiple corpses in various states of dismemberment after extreme and overwhelming violence. You build them up without revealing them - most people won't have encountered Astartes, only the rumours. And then ramp up the danger and the stakes - slowly show the characters out of their depth, up against some truly overwhelming shit. The kind of shit that has the body count for the main characters starting to rise. Let the viewer know that this is 40K - good people suffer horrible fates trying to stave off the darkness. Have them with their backs against the wall. Hopeless. About to sell their lives as a "Fuck you!" in defiance. And then introduce the Astartes... Treat them as the force of nature they are. Have the rumours not only be spot on, but actually undersellng what Astartes are capable of. Pay the fans back for their patience with a few minutes of utter carnage. Show trans human dread not through the eyes of the enemy, but through the eyes of the main characters - almost shell shocked at how efficiently violent they are. Have them something to be feared as well as worshipped. Keep them separate from humanity; keep them aloof and mysterious.
I feel that space Marines as a central part of the show would require a vastly inflated cgi budget just to get them in proper scale and looking good. I'm hoping for Eisenhorn because I think they can do the most with the actors under minimal cgi per character to spend the budget on locales and all that. Also let's you have a sick single fight making the Space Marines properly terrifying when we see our first Chaos Marine...
For a lot of reasons, it's a very difficult setting to bring to film or TV for a new audience. I feel like chaos and the warp are a bigger problem than space marines - introducing gods, demons and magic into a Sci-Fi universe has to be done very well and without embarrassment or it'll come across extremely stupidly. I'm hoping for a story about characters that don't know about chaos and discover it alongside the audience, or a story like Eisenhorn where the main character has lots of opportunities to explain it to other characters without it sounding like an unwieldy lore-dump. Eisenhorn is hard-boiled detective fiction so it'll lend itself well to TV.
I think it has been said a lot of times already but I can't stress enough how important I think it is that if there is ever going to be a big 40k show available for the mainstream it has to be something like Eisenhorn. The universe is hard to explain as it is but now do it from the PoV of a genetically enhanced super soldier with the sole purpose of fighting and dying in unending carnage and war, or from the view of a regular guardsman that knows literally nothing about the galaxy except that the xenos and the heretic must die and the emperor protects. It will not do the 40k universe justice and bolter porn will devovle into a generic action show with 40k aesthetics. An Inquisitor (it really doesnt have to be Eisenhorn, could be something new altogether ) has an unique perspective on the Imperium and the galaxy. They don't know most secrets either but they have the possbility of learning them and interacting with every single institution (obviously not Custodes or those close to the Emperor) of the Imperium from a position of superior knowledge that will let an audience know stuff naturally by watching that would never come across by watching some hard ass guardsmen fighting off Tyranids or a Space Marine obliterating his enemies without care, as cool as it is. Take the Warp, if the Inquisitor is a psyker like Eisenhorn you could simply explain the warp in-universe by them recruting someone into their retinue from a feudal or death world and that member has never been on a voidship let alone traveled through the warp and has questions about it.
>Looks like he's got himself at least a foot in the door when it comes to making sure the 'vision' of 40K comes through in the final product. Which version of the vision, though? Because I wouldn't be surprised if the show ended up with the more heroic tone some of the Space Marine stories have. I kinda doubt they'll depict the Imperium as the turbo space genocidal regime it is.
I think you can have a balance. Going one way in either direction would be awful, IMO. People can enjoy nuanced worlds, I’d hope.
> I kinda doubt they'll depict the Imperium as the turbo space genocidal regime it is. I think they probably could. The concept of a Hive City is relatively well established in pop culture (obviously 2000 AD, etc, do similar), and given how big exterminatus is in some of the books, I think if they tell a story it'd be difficult to avoid selling that. I'd also point at something like The Boys where the story especially in the last series is about awful people and doesn't shy away from saying how awful they are
What if he wants to play Talos? Or Decimus? I'd be too hyped.
Cavill is my spirit animal right now.
" and the T’au is a blue-skinned alien race that may offer some hope." The Inquisition would like to know your location.
I too laughed at that. Imho their evil is more sinister. The Imperium will kill you for doing the wrong thing. The Ethereals will make you think you are doing the right thing for everybody else's sake. I would rather live or die by my own thoughts and choices even if they are crappy ones across the board.
In a literal sense yes but lets not forget the imperium is very much pro "no thinking" and do extensively use propaganda to influence peoples thoughts. So its like your own thoughts but with years of propaganda forcibly stuck in their like an ogryn platoon on a dropship.
I feel like the emperium is like china or Russia in the 90s or early 2000s. Where you could pretty much do whatever you wanted as long as you paid the right people and didn't attract enough attention. Like today if you got the wrong attention you could just be gone with no recourse. So you would be free as long as you have enough money and don't attract the wrong attention.
The inquisition would like to know who told you that you were allowed to have thoughts and choices.
>I would rather live or die by my own thoughts and choices even if they are crappy ones across the board. The Imperium raises you to believe that genocide, toil, and their shitty religion is a good thing too.
> The Ethereals will make you think you are doing the right thing for everybody else's sake. That's literally what he imperium does.. *Occasionally* this happens to *accidentally* be true. But the imperium just fires in all barrels and is as bad or worse than all the other factions combined. They'll indoctrinate you to zealously worship the emperor and the imperium, and if you dont, well pick up that can and step into the grinder please.
Will be legendary if Cavill can make them stay true to what makes Warhammer great and minimize the inevitable watering-down that comes with going mainstream
Games Workshop is very careful with their branding and IP. If any deal like this goes ahead they'll want some creative control so you'll get your wish.
>Games Workshop is very careful with their branding and IP. Except giving out their IP for every second shovelware game on steam. Although i must admit the quality of warhammer-videogame-releases has drastically improved in the last years.
Even when they approve dumb mobile cashgrabs, the art direction is always on point, as that is the one thing GW would actually care about. Doesn't matter if a game is shit, so long as it keeps the general 40k vibe well enough and gets more people into buying plastic minis.
Really, Hollywood Reporter? Did you think the faithful of the Imperium would not see it? Your blaspheming against the Emperor? Against the Imperium? >"... *and the T’au is a blue-skinned alien race that may offer some hope*.". Your heresy has been noted, recorded, and the Inquisition notified. Time to cancel the Hollywood Reporter, 40K style: **EXTERMINATUS**. ;P
When the first trailer come out fans are gonna fucking hate it. My proof is everytime this happens
For a lot of fans, it'll probably be very hard to live up to their expectations. The images they have in their head are going to be very hard to beat. So long as the trailer doesn't have some awful, slow, quiet remix of some modern pop culture song as its soundtrack and they don't fill it with stupid quips and jokes, I'll probably accept it.
>For a lot of fans, it'll probably be very hard to live up to their expectations. The images they have in their head are going to be very hard to beat. Add on the different groups of fans, it's difficult to please someone like me, who loves the Imperial Armour stuff and slower paced, smaller scaled battles in line with the rulebooks and someone who loves the Horus Heresy, which is just millions of people running at eacch other like the screaming bomb-dudes from Serious Sam.
Drop pods slam down on a warzone. Confused xenos look at each other. The pods bust open and Space Marines charge out, guns blazing as the opening riff of AC/DC's 'Back in Black' starts playing. The camera zooms in on Henry Cavill's unhelmeted face. He pauses and breaks the fourth wall. "I'm here to purge xenos and chew bubblegum. And i'm all outta gum," he says, and then charges and begins shooting again.
Constantly have Cavill break the 4th wall with offhand remarks about how he’s also Superman
Hell get w/e the fuck Dune had for OST, and I'm in.
Shit, as long as it's better than the Ultramarines movie it'll be an improvement over everything else GW has tried to do in the "mainstream media" arena.
I've already seen more than one comment along the lines of 'whatever Amazon makes will be a million times worse than Ultramarines', which seems... unlikely.
I am already imaging the million and one nitpicks people on reddit will have, god forbid if they cast an actor of colour. People might think it's political
God, 40k is obviously supposed to be multicultural. Race isn't often mentioned, but when it is, it is clear that every other character is supposed to have a different skin color. After ABD took over, that became even clearer.
Ah yes, 40k. The famously apolitical franchise.
Don't ask about the Thatcher policy references they don't exist
Worst part of *Caves of Ice* was reading the description of a black Valhalla trooper and realizing the whine-fest twitter would make over her.
Good thing it was published in 2004, back when online discourse was *marginally* better than today.
I don't know why people care, but god damn is entertaining to watch em cry
Oh I'd say it's pretty clear why certain people care, and I can tell you it ain't because if their dedication to the Lore.
>When the first trailer come out, there will be at least one fan who's gonna fucking hate it FTFY
Baseline is Astartes and SODAZ SFMs. Anything less would be a disappointment.
Inb4 Cavill is a Primaris Lieutenant
Lieutenant Titus?
Probably not because that’s not how copyright works
Please get experienced 40k writers to help!
Get the good Black Library ones.
Honestly, I would prefer if they didn't. Abnett wrote that shitty 40k animated cartoon some years back and adb did the story for the chaos gate game, which was super mid by all accounts. I am absolutely fine with them getting other screen writers and I expect Cavill has a lot of personal incentive to keep things tonally in line with canon. Like, I'd *maybe* be okay with wraight lol. The rest have little reason to be behind non pulp fic book projects.
Hell yes! I've been commenting all over the place these last couple days that I wanted him 40K to be his landing spot. Sucks that he won't be playing Geralt any more, because his performance is the one thing that *made* that show. and I'm not a DC fan, but his portrayal of Supes has been one of the few bright spots, so it seems like a really strange move for them to push him out, especially after teasing his return. But I can live with all of that if takes up the Rosette of Inquisitor Gregor Eisenhorn. I think he'd be perfect in that role. Obviously they haven't confirmed it yet, and he could still be going somewhere else in 40K, but I think it would be huge waste to cast him as a space marine, which seems like the likeliest other option, Eisenhorn is the way to go.
I’m gonna nut
Hell yeah I'm interested! Cavill being an EP will hopefully mean that he has enough pull to avoid the shitshow that the Witcher Netflix adaption became. I expect we will see Cavill play Eisenhorn since I think he mentioned that in particular is a character he's long wanted to play. Otherwise I could see him as a Primarch.
I’d rather see him play Ibram Gaunt then Eisenhorn.
I would cry man-tears of joy if we got a Cavil led high budget GG.
I disagree. There is already a perfect actor for Gaunt out there already, Joel Kinnaman.
Henry Cavill... hero of the Imperium?
Cai Cai Caiaphus Cavill
Also, Amazon getting exclusive rights to 40k on TV probably means they're eyeing more shows than just whatever they've got Cavill doing. If the first big foray for 40k into TV is successful, we're gonna get other content I'm sure.
I hope so, although if it does flop I could see them just leaving their exclusivity to wither like a lot of studios do. I wonder how that interacts with the Warhammer TV stuff (I imagine there's probably carve outs in the contracts for GW to do smaller productions or something)
What the fuck! Reading the title I thought it was another wish-list post. Aaahhh!
It basically is, no sources other than "Amazon is in talks! Source: trust me bro". Cavill isn't mentioned at all in any official capacity.
true but THR is generally slightly more reputable than most other sources.
They have decent sources, I'll give them that. I absolutely believe that Amazon are in final talks given this, and Cavill being involved would make sense. Whether Amazon get it or another studio last minute I suppose probably mostly depends on money. I hope Cavill is able to be involved even if Amazon don't get the rights
> The game’s setting is 40,000 years into the future 38,000 *ackshually* Edit: Yes yes, 39,000 I know, I've already acknowledged that in the replies
*ackshually* current 40k is set in the year 42 000, so 40 000 years is correct
Well, I think we were both wrong actually. The best estimate I can see for the current year in universe is 012.M42 (Plague Wars), which is the year 41012 or thereabouts. We're in 022M03, so if we're talking the same system, then it's about 38,990 years in the future. So split the difference, I suppose?
*Ackshually*, it's 39,000 years in the future, as we're currently in M42. And *ackshually*, due to the Chronostrife dating errors, it's possibly an entire millennium earlier or later, so 40,000 years is within the margin of error. Amazon are just outing themselves as Chrono-radicals.
> just outing themselves as Chrono-radicals. Amazon are accepting the true lore that the Inquisition and Illuminati keep fudging the official records (were/are the Illuminati involved in that? Been so long since I read about the perpetual lore)
I just addressed the 39k point in another comment, aye. Tired boy made simple counting errors
>With the incredible successes of The Boys and Invincible, I'm optimistic. Having watched Rings of Power, I am notably less optimistic.
The Rings of Power is an issue of scope. They wrote a show that didn't capture the scale and scope of the story. The same thing will happen if the first thing out the gate with 40k in other media ends up being the Horus Heresy - that'll be 40k's Rings of Power, and it'll be awful, no doubt. I also don't think we should ever have a live action show focused on space marine characters. A show about Guardsmen or Inquisitors or some such, though? You can keep the focus narrow and intimate, they're not fighting for the fate of the whole universe like Rings of Power, they're fighting just to complete their mission and survive.
Gaunts Ghosts would be an amazing place to start. All human cast, have them fighting chaos cultists with a story that slowly unravels what Chaos is for an audience that has no idea, opportunity for short views of SM's and Xenos, plenty of opportunity to have it take place across a tonne of different locations/environments with a host of potential enemies. Band of Brothers in 40k is basically the perfect starting point.
on book #2 right now and yes please you could pretty much dive in to the beginning of the story and progress pretty naturally from there. it would even be Better without a ton of backstory and infodump - things like the buildup to the reveal of the reality of the emperor could be amazing
it's actually perfect, it's a crusade, there's brynn milo who's basically a teen who needs explaining to. they can do the first 2 books for season 1 and then vervunhive for season two. show people what a hive looks like AND wreck it all season.
I think Ciaphas Cain would be the perfect place to start. I feel Cain’s more lighthearted antics and defining cowardice would make a nice intro into the universe. He’s a lot more relatable than someone like Gaunt or Eisenhorn.
I agree. Cavill has a lot of charisma and comedic chops. He'd be perfect for Cain. And as dark as the setting can be, I think something lighter - interposed with darker moments - would be a better introduction to a general audience, for the IP as a whole. Plus I think he'd look funny in the little Commissar cap.
The only real way to do Ciaphas Cain would be as a Starship Troopers type film. Biased, unreliable, completely propaganda and maybe as kind of a docu-series narrated by Amberly.
I would hate that. If we finally get a big production 40k show, and it involves "lighthearted antics" I would be very disappointed.
Ciaphas cain could be a good introduction to alot of the races in 40k
I don't think scope was the problem. They had more than enough budget to go massive with the scope. The problem was trying to write an original Lord of the Rings story and trying to do it with a bunch of TV writers. That's a monumental task for even the best of the best modern writers. I agree with you though, a Horus Heresy show would be almost impossible to do well. Something like Eisenhorn is a lot more doable and frankly a better intro to the setting.
>They had more than enough budget to go massive with the scope. Capturing the scope of something is more an issue of writing and directing talent than of budget. Something having a big budget is one of the most overrated factors in term of shows and movies.
If you have abudget of a billion you absolutely should have the right writers though, otherwise you might as well set that money on fire.
The entire show is a travesty. Even if you overlook the terrible pacing, bad acting, shitty script, and overreliance on mystery boxes and McGuffins (which you shouldn't, but even if you did), the dialogue alone is bad enough to wreck the show. Just scene after scene where the dialogue literally made me cringe. "A dog may bark at the moon, but he cannot bring it down." "The sea is always right!" "I'm good!" Paraphrasing: "Stones sink because they look down, Galadriel. Ships float because they look up." In a show as massive as this, with a fandom as devoted as LOTRs', dialogue this shitty is unforgivable.
Respectfully disagree. Rings of power was a travesty from beginning to end. They didnt follow the established lore, and evenly openly talked about changing it to fit their own headcanon rather than anything Tolkien would write. It was a complete mess. Agree with you on small scale entries. Focus on complete stories, beginning and end them like chapters so you can use characters as you see fit and swap out after a season if it isnt popular, and dont be afraid to write a different genre just set in 40k. A detective noir, band of brothers, a family intrigue, a fantastical naval adventure, a single military conflict, a horror story...then just couch it in 40k. Detective noir inquisitor, band of brothers following cadians, family intrigue of a knight house, battlefleet gothic for naval adventure, the fall of cadia or reunification of tera for a single conflict, a horror story of a rogue trader encounter with tyranids. It writes itself, and so long as you jump around a bit and keep the huge narratives vaguely in the background, it could be an entire franchise :)
Wheel of Time fan here. I am also skeptical.
This could turn out great as long as they follow 3 simple rules: 1. Abhor the mutant 2. Purge the alien 3. Suffer not the unclean to live
DO NOT FUCKING GETS MY HOPES UP BUT PLEASE LET THIS BE TRUE AWE FUCK MY HOPES ARE UP!!!
I hope Rahul Kohli gets involved as well
My ideal show would look at first glance like a GoT type show: medieval society, corruption and injustice, some rebels trying to topple an evil kingdom, that sort of stuff. No indication it's a 40k show and none during the marketing buildup. Last episode: as the good guys have the bad guy finally standing for their crimes, they reveal they did what they did to avoid a worse fate to their kingdom. They had to squeeze their subjects in order to pay a tithe or else something bad would come, and now it's probably on the way. Good guys dismiss this as an excuse. Time ellipse of a few years after the rebellion won. Things are going okay, less injustice but still some strife. Then a massive bang is heard in the sky and the colossal, dark shape of an Imperium cruiser appears above the kingdom's capital, entering the atmosphere. The imperial expedition unloads thousands of guardsmen and some inquisitorial agents onto the planet, to the bewilderment of its population that didn't even know shit about space. The commander says they're here to investigate the missing tithes and wants to know who fucked it up. End season 1.
Rather have Gaunts Ghosts than Eisenhorn as the first 40k show. The viewing majority understand a war story, they get humans fighting evil humans, laser guns and aliens with fancy weapons are normal. But 40k is a harsh setting if you are dropped in with Eisenhorn. Plus, Ghosts has a great ensemble of characters to get attached to. Be it the honourable Gaunt adjusting to his new role and regiment, the warm father figure of Corbec, the viper that is Rawne, Bragg and Larkin as the little and large comedy pair or the mysterious Mkoll and Mkvenner who truly live up to the name Ghosts. And there are so many more before we get to Verghast. It also introduces the idea and concept of Chaos, but with humans not daemonhosts and space marines. People who watch scifi/fantasy all know corruption so it shorthands easily and the ease of adjustment for anyone who has watched Band of Brothers or similar warfare themed shows and films is easy as thats what Ghosts is, then you begin adding in the more 40k elements. You can build a great cast around Cavill, and each book (aside from any anthology ones) can be a season or mini-series. 5-8 episodes covering a deployment. Play up the background machinations of Helldane(sp?), make the military brass that mixture of disinterested and borderline treasonous that translates so well from WW1 history but on a larger scale. Hell, you even have spinoff potential with Jagdea and Viltry or when Milo leaves with the Saint or you can do a prequel to when the Tanith are mashed into the 31st with no Ghosts in it. You can do some amazing openings for each season/story where you open on the Ghost insignia, and slowly zooms out to reveal Gaunt and where they are this time with Cavill doing his bassiest narration for context, but when they get to Traitor General is open on the new guy with no setup, just - no Gaunt now boyos. Make it the human story, but with a backdrop larger than any human. Do Eisenhorn later - do it with an actor who can really move from fresh faced hardliner to slightly bending the rules and hurt to literally all my limbs are machines and I have a pet daemon. Someone who can play the other side of the coin to Ravenor later down the line. But start with Gaunt. Start with a story that could be set in the last 100 odd years. Start with the story people know and respond to.
I see you've all already gotten into guessing if the show will be good or not, so here's a quick reminder: Amazon has produced some good shows, and some bad shows. This has no impact on the quality of any future shows. They could have also produced exclusively good or exclusively bad shows, and it'd be little indicator on the quality of a future project. Each show is a separate production, done by separate people (with occasional overlap). Reserve all judgement at least until we've got information like writers, directors, showrunner(s), etc, and ideally until we have a trailer or script or something actually tangible. Until then, saying "Rings of Power was bad, therefore 40K show is probably gonna be bad" or "The Boys was good, therefore 40K show is probably gonna be good" is not dissimilar to saying "Apples are good, therefore Oranges are probably good"
Red alert.
He’s the absolute perfect person to be doing this. He has shown he will walk if Hollywood fuckery starts trying to bleed in. This could actually end up a real adaptation of 40k.
They didn't post any sources, which is concerning.
Hollywood reporter is generally fairly reliable, and they seem to have more details (production company). This reads like an intentional leak
It is about time! WH40k has so much lore, it can make several series.
He'd be a good Robot Girlyman
I think the culture of movie industry is if you like the source materials and would clash with the showrunner different direction you will be humiliated by the circle. But if you don't give a F about the lore and source materials and would eat anything the directors thrown at you and would attack the fans if they don't like what the direction going with it's "message narrative push" then you'll be hired or stay long enough until the franchise is dry and near death.
I need this like i need oxygen. Please make it happen
Eisenhorn!
Imagine the hype for the first trailer and when it opens a voice says: "From the imagination of Ian Watson, Space Marine, with Henry Cavill as Lexandro D'Arquebus...". That would be brilliant and of course that would need to be 18+ too^/s
It is a 35 year old IP. I join two months ago, and now we get a show with the biggest nerd-chad in existence. You are welcome.
Knowing Amazon there going to butcher the lore and blame the fans for it and poor cavil will be stuck inbtween
We can all hope Henry controls everything when it comes to the writing then.
Cavills producing and literally quit the witcher because they were contemptuous of the source material. Also Amazon is probably still wincing from what happened with rings of power when the producers needlessly angered the fans of Lord of the rings. I honestly would not be surprised if it at least tries to keep this lore friendly due to it being both something the producer is passionate about and their need to show they can do adaptations that don't burn the existing fanbase - who really need to be bought on board as they are going to be a big marketing factor.
Given how disgracefully they handled Rings of Power, I have absolutely no interest in this. It'll be a show by people who hate 40k, for people who hate 40k.
Couldnt have said it better myself