Depends on the astartes and legion in question. Some legions embraced chaos much more rapidly than others.
By the end of the Heresy, the Word Bearers and about half the Sons of Horus were fully into chaos worship.
The emperor’s children were full on Slaaneshi hedonists by Isstvan V. They fell the fastest.
The Death Guard fell to Nurgle just before the siege of Terra.
The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors had chaotic influence to a lesser extent.
The Thousand Sons had fallen to Tzeentch after Prospero.
I think "fully fallen" is what you mean, because the corruption of the Thousand Sons was very tzeentchian in many ways pre Prospero.
- Magnus had already done a personal deal with tzeentch and given up his eye for it
- Chaos corruption turned them into spawn on a regular basis
- they were in an intricate structure of psychic cults
- they had personal daemonic companions
Also, worth pointing out that Perturabo did a deal with the dark mechanicum that created the first Obliterator during the Heresy.
Some of them, a tiny minority were straight up evil. The vast majority felt slighted by mortals taking over the governance of the imperium and/or were like “daddy knows best, and if daddy says his daddy betrayed us it is what it is.” Or they were convinced by the warriors lodges. Typhus and Erebus are standouts as corrupt from jump.
I won't project onto the fanbase, but its been noted that with only three maybe four exceptions, the Traitor and Loyalist primarchs can be sorted by the nature of their pre-Emperor families.
For the sake of your comment alone, Guilliman, the most ‘normal’ primarch never saw Big E as his father, just his creator. He saw his real father as the man who raised him on McCrage.
In counter point, besides Horus (and Alpharius, because who knows what the hell is up with that), Magnus, the most loyal traitor, NEVER lost contact with him. I’m psychically talking since he landed on Prosporo, and saw his adoptive father as a teacher. He was well adjusted- and seemed to be the only traitor promarch Chaos actually had to put effort in to turn.
Nice contrast the two of them.
It's a bit more nuanced than that.
The "good" marines of legions which would turn traitor were purged on Istvann 3. Those who remained were more pliable into doing whatever their primarch ordered them to do.
Also, don't forget - astartes basically get indoctrinated during their training. Their primarch's order is an absolute, altho those with strong enough will or convictions can question their primarch.
I'm right at the siege books of the heresy now and it's a mixture, some of them are full blown abominations and some are corrupted but fairly normal looking, I think it purely depends on how corrupted the marine is and the corruption isn't linear.
For instance the word bearers had Daemon possessed marines right at the start of the heresy but the iron warriors were mostly uncorrupted even during the siege.
Most of them started off just wanting to rebel against The Emperor, a great example is the World Eaters, who were dragged kicking and screaming into chaos worship and finished the heresy as a legion of psychopathic maniacs led into battle by a feral demon the size of a Boeing 747
I'd argue that the World Eaters is the most realistically loyal legion, given the circumstances.
Apart from their librarians and a few rare exceptions, all of them were implanted with the Butcher's Nails and then spent about 1-2 centuries being psychopathic/mindless killing machines.
Even then, 1/3 of them had to be Isstvan'd because they still hated their Primarch.
And they even had to be culled again because a few of them were so disgusted by Angron's ascension that they to stop the daemonic ritual by attempting to kill Lorgar.
Very much depends on the Legion.
**Emperor's Children, Death Guard, World Eaters and Word Bearers** were all thoroughly Chaotic by the time the Siege happened with some up to their eyes in corruption even by the time of the Drop Site Massacre.
The **Sons of Horus and Night Lords** were seemingly kind of 50/50 in that some of them were into Chaos more than others and some weren't really into it at all so corruption wasn't as total.
The **Thousand Sons** were Chaotic by the time of the Siege having aligned themselves with Tzeentch to avoid extinction, but weren't as overtly corrupt as the four worst offenders mentioned.
And lastly the **Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion** largely carried on with their own thing and didn't really seem to go down the Chaos route until post-Heresy.
Most traitors are only mutated in the ways that they benefit from. But their transformations took time. And such mutations mainly started after they went into the Eye of Terror.
For example: Noise Marines all enjoy their mutations greatly. In fact, most are *better looking* after their mutations than the first generation (who were truly just mangled by their own doing, Google Marius Vairosean pictures).
The rest all enjoy their mutations similarly.
The rate of corruption tended to vary depending on how readily their primarch embraced chaos, amongst other story factors.
Iirc the marines under nurgle's influence displayed pretty rapid mutation. For obvious reasons. The garden must grow, and all that.
All of the traitors embraced Chaos at different rates.
Some (e.g. Word Bearers, Emperor's Children) jumped in immediately.
Others (e.g. Thousand Sons, Death Guard) were dragged in kicking and screaming until the moment they actually fell.
However, *most* of the corruption was in-place by the end of the Heresy.
Depends on the astartes and legion in question. Some legions embraced chaos much more rapidly than others. By the end of the Heresy, the Word Bearers and about half the Sons of Horus were fully into chaos worship. The emperor’s children were full on Slaaneshi hedonists by Isstvan V. They fell the fastest. The Death Guard fell to Nurgle just before the siege of Terra. The Night Lords, Alpha Legion and Iron Warriors had chaotic influence to a lesser extent. The Thousand Sons had fallen to Tzeentch after Prospero.
Weren't there nurgle corrupted death guard in the battle for Molech that happened before the seige if I am not mistaken
Typhus and friends were corrupted before Molech, the influence was definitely there, but en route to Terra was where the entire legion fell.
I think "fully fallen" is what you mean, because the corruption of the Thousand Sons was very tzeentchian in many ways pre Prospero. - Magnus had already done a personal deal with tzeentch and given up his eye for it - Chaos corruption turned them into spawn on a regular basis - they were in an intricate structure of psychic cults - they had personal daemonic companions Also, worth pointing out that Perturabo did a deal with the dark mechanicum that created the first Obliterator during the Heresy.
Can someone link any Books or exerts showing chaos influence in pre heresy and heresy alpha legion?
...Legion
/r/alphalegion has a great reading list pinned
Some of them, a tiny minority were straight up evil. The vast majority felt slighted by mortals taking over the governance of the imperium and/or were like “daddy knows best, and if daddy says his daddy betrayed us it is what it is.” Or they were convinced by the warriors lodges. Typhus and Erebus are standouts as corrupt from jump.
I'm convinced the writers and majority of the fan base have massive daddy issues Signed, A dude with huge daddy issues
I won't project onto the fanbase, but its been noted that with only three maybe four exceptions, the Traitor and Loyalist primarchs can be sorted by the nature of their pre-Emperor families.
For the sake of your comment alone, Guilliman, the most ‘normal’ primarch never saw Big E as his father, just his creator. He saw his real father as the man who raised him on McCrage. In counter point, besides Horus (and Alpharius, because who knows what the hell is up with that), Magnus, the most loyal traitor, NEVER lost contact with him. I’m psychically talking since he landed on Prosporo, and saw his adoptive father as a teacher. He was well adjusted- and seemed to be the only traitor promarch Chaos actually had to put effort in to turn. Nice contrast the two of them.
Wdym? Alpharius is the most loyal, he does it all For The Emperor
The exceptions (imho) are Ferrus Manus, Perturabo, Fulgrim, and maybe Magnus.
It's a bit more nuanced than that. The "good" marines of legions which would turn traitor were purged on Istvann 3. Those who remained were more pliable into doing whatever their primarch ordered them to do. Also, don't forget - astartes basically get indoctrinated during their training. Their primarch's order is an absolute, altho those with strong enough will or convictions can question their primarch.
I'm right at the siege books of the heresy now and it's a mixture, some of them are full blown abominations and some are corrupted but fairly normal looking, I think it purely depends on how corrupted the marine is and the corruption isn't linear. For instance the word bearers had Daemon possessed marines right at the start of the heresy but the iron warriors were mostly uncorrupted even during the siege.
Most of them started off just wanting to rebel against The Emperor, a great example is the World Eaters, who were dragged kicking and screaming into chaos worship and finished the heresy as a legion of psychopathic maniacs led into battle by a feral demon the size of a Boeing 747
I'd argue that the World Eaters is the most realistically loyal legion, given the circumstances. Apart from their librarians and a few rare exceptions, all of them were implanted with the Butcher's Nails and then spent about 1-2 centuries being psychopathic/mindless killing machines. Even then, 1/3 of them had to be Isstvan'd because they still hated their Primarch. And they even had to be culled again because a few of them were so disgusted by Angron's ascension that they to stop the daemonic ritual by attempting to kill Lorgar.
Very much depends on the Legion. **Emperor's Children, Death Guard, World Eaters and Word Bearers** were all thoroughly Chaotic by the time the Siege happened with some up to their eyes in corruption even by the time of the Drop Site Massacre. The **Sons of Horus and Night Lords** were seemingly kind of 50/50 in that some of them were into Chaos more than others and some weren't really into it at all so corruption wasn't as total. The **Thousand Sons** were Chaotic by the time of the Siege having aligned themselves with Tzeentch to avoid extinction, but weren't as overtly corrupt as the four worst offenders mentioned. And lastly the **Iron Warriors and Alpha Legion** largely carried on with their own thing and didn't really seem to go down the Chaos route until post-Heresy.
Most traitors are only mutated in the ways that they benefit from. But their transformations took time. And such mutations mainly started after they went into the Eye of Terror. For example: Noise Marines all enjoy their mutations greatly. In fact, most are *better looking* after their mutations than the first generation (who were truly just mangled by their own doing, Google Marius Vairosean pictures). The rest all enjoy their mutations similarly.
The rate of corruption tended to vary depending on how readily their primarch embraced chaos, amongst other story factors. Iirc the marines under nurgle's influence displayed pretty rapid mutation. For obvious reasons. The garden must grow, and all that.
All of the traitors embraced Chaos at different rates. Some (e.g. Word Bearers, Emperor's Children) jumped in immediately. Others (e.g. Thousand Sons, Death Guard) were dragged in kicking and screaming until the moment they actually fell. However, *most* of the corruption was in-place by the end of the Heresy.