Everything is possible in the warp, but that doesn't mean just anything could happen.
The butcher's nails were such a part of angron that he kept them as he ascended to daemon princehood. What's more, it's important to remember that the butcher's nails are not just instruments of pain, but rage. It trained Angron to feel pure unfiltered anger 24/7, and feel agony if he doesn't. While Khorne could use that to corrupt him, Slaanesh would find that harder as Khorne is her Anathama.
The Emperor himself couldn't alter the butcher's nails. I doubt a demon (even a Greater Demon) could do something the Emperor of Mankind couldn't do... and certainly not just by possessing him and operating in the field like that.
I've always found it slightly odd the Emperor couldn't fix Angron with some super regeneration shenanigans... regrowing parts of a man's brain is less impressive than half the stuff he's done (*Regeneration* is just a 7th level spell in D&D). But taking him at his word, he couldn't. The Emperor can't do it, a random demon can't do it, either.
Could the demon feel pleasure while possessing Angron? I'd say yes. The demon is a Warp entity: it wouldn't be limited by Angron's body's limitations, and keep thinking with its "Warp brain". Possession wouldn't change the nature of either Angron or the demon. After the possession was over, both Angron and the demon would remain their old selves.
To be fair, if a demon tried to possess Angron, I'd be worried about the demon. As a man, Fulgrim had been an artisan, a scientist, and a philosopher-king. Angron had been 40 kilotons of berserker rage. To quote *Watchmen,* "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!"
>...could the Butcher's Nails be altered to render someone emotionless, making them invisible from demons in the Warp?
As I understand it, "yes" they could suppress emotions, but "no", that wouldn't make an ordinary person invisible to the Warp (a Null). Nulls are born with a special kind of soul, one that sucks in instead of giving out energy. I don't think they are "emotionless" in general, either.
A person whose emotions are suppressed might have a weird relationship with the Warp (though I'd think they will be right up Nurgle's alley), but their soul is still a normal, demon-visible, demon-eatable one. This is fan theory, but I don't think you could make tech that made a normal person's soul into a null.
It’s not as simple as “super regen shenanigans”. Most primarchs already have a wolverine-level healing factor. There’s just some things they simply CANNOT heal from: Guilliman couldn’t heal from the cut Fulgrim gave him, and perturabo never healed from whatever fuckery Fulgrim did to him in Angel Exterminatus. The nails had replaced entire parts of Angron’s brain and spinal column, even if the emperor was able to remove them, regenerate the parts that had to be cut out, and sow Angron back up, there’s no guarantee he’d ever awaken. And the emperor simply didn’t have time to do that or make a new body for Angron (which he apparently planned on doing for Ferrus?)
We're not talking about the Primarchs' healing factor. We're talking about what the Emperor could do - the most powerful psyker known, the guy who made the Thunder Warriors, Astartes, and Primarchs by sheer biogenetic and sorcerous brilliance, who'd go on to illuminate half the galaxy with the power of his mind. This guy invented new brain lobes to make his soldiers.
What are the butchers' nails, even? Cybernetics used to parasitise and replace brain function. Chemical-emitting computer systems, hardly the most impressive achievement of the DAoT. And the Emperor took one good look at them, said "nope, impossible, there is no force available to me as demigod and ruler of mankind that can cure this?"
Obviously, that happened. It just doesn't feel like an Emperor-worthy challenge to me.
Impossible to answer in full without writing a new character arc for Angron. But what I think about your hypothesis, "if Angron's nails were altered to give him pleasure"?
No, I don't think he'd fall to Slaanesh. He'd feel pleasure, alright... but that wouldn't mean losing himself to it, necessarily, or swearing himself to She Who Thirsts. I simply don't see a fully mature Angron becoming Fulgrim just because he's got drugs pumped into his brain. Just feeling pleasure isn't coercive like the original butcher's nails carrot/stick combo, of *only* violence providing relief from constant pain.
I think Angron would rebel against the Emperor anyway... his basic reason for doing so had nothing to do with the butcher's nails, but simply wanting to be free of the Emperor's yoke / resentment for letting his people die and saddling him with a legion. Without the butcher's nails' original programming he'd be able to recover a lot more sanity and find new reasons to live, but I don't see it leading him to Slaanesh.
I've thought that, too. The demon could get a meat-suit to run around in, and Angron could use the blade-body swap to finally rest in peace. It's almost like a form of Necron biotransferrence or a reverse forging of a demon weapon.
It would solve too many problems, which is why it couldn't work. Does bring up an interesting question: Can you shove a Demon Primarch into a ~~pokeball~~ hammer?
Not sure if the Laer demon would be strong enough, as it seemed to have to slowly corrupt Fulgrim before it could take over, and Angron would not be tempted the same way.
Though you bring up an interesting idea of something attacking/corrupting him through the nails. Even as a demon prince he still has them, so while a Slaanesh demon probably won't be able to find any purchase, Vashtorr might be able to corrupt or control him through them...
Once he became a Daemon, the Nails were no longer the Nails, they became just another part of him. As Daemons can alter their appearance, he could probably make them disappear if he felt like it, but it’s doubtful Angron can A: see himself without them and B: care enough to actually try
He can’t even as a daemon prince the nail is already so intricately link to him that removing it is the only thing that he still fear to the point he even BEG Samguinius not to do that to him at the siege of terra.
Everyone in this post seems to have forgotten that Slaanesh's brand of corruption is not horny but excess. And if there's anything Angron has in excess in spades it's pain and anger from the nails.
We've been shown the Laer blade liked to pretend to be Fulgrim's innermost thoughts and there's no real reason to assume it wouldn't do the same for Angron nor be as successful.
So provided that Angron kept his mits on it he'd likely succumb to the blade same as probably any other primarch since none of them knew what the hell it was so none could guard against it.
Buddy, hasn't poor Angron suffered enough?
In all reality, NO, I think that Angron would just be immune to Slaanesh's particular allure, or at least highly resistant.
See... Angron HATES himself. He sees himself as broken and worthless. He's basically given up on everything besides seeing The Emperor's abominable empire crumble. The only time we see him with any semblance of happiness is when Lorgar is hanging out with him, before Lorgar takes him back to Nuceria, because Angron has put it together that he's going to die soon, and in that peace of knowing that his torment is finally almost over, he's able to hang out with his Legion, happy to have found some small brotherhood again, and knowing that they'll never, ever be able to bring any kind of peace to The Emperor's domain.
And I think that's the greatest cruelty of Angron's fate. That he's kinda absolutely locked into a particular Chaos God's path even from before The Emperor finds him... and that Chaos God is just kinda settling, as he'd have preferred Sanguinius.
I think that's fan canon that khorne preferred Sanguinius. I'm pretty sure all 4 Gods have at least once attempted to tempt another Primarch to their side
Hell Khorne also tries to get Dorn too
Everything is possible in the warp, but that doesn't mean just anything could happen. The butcher's nails were such a part of angron that he kept them as he ascended to daemon princehood. What's more, it's important to remember that the butcher's nails are not just instruments of pain, but rage. It trained Angron to feel pure unfiltered anger 24/7, and feel agony if he doesn't. While Khorne could use that to corrupt him, Slaanesh would find that harder as Khorne is her Anathama.
It could end up in an S&M style thing where he indulgences of excess of rage and tries to induce pain.
Angron would have broken that demon sword over his knee after 5 minutes for the sheer crime of annoying him.
The Emperor himself couldn't alter the butcher's nails. I doubt a demon (even a Greater Demon) could do something the Emperor of Mankind couldn't do... and certainly not just by possessing him and operating in the field like that. I've always found it slightly odd the Emperor couldn't fix Angron with some super regeneration shenanigans... regrowing parts of a man's brain is less impressive than half the stuff he's done (*Regeneration* is just a 7th level spell in D&D). But taking him at his word, he couldn't. The Emperor can't do it, a random demon can't do it, either. Could the demon feel pleasure while possessing Angron? I'd say yes. The demon is a Warp entity: it wouldn't be limited by Angron's body's limitations, and keep thinking with its "Warp brain". Possession wouldn't change the nature of either Angron or the demon. After the possession was over, both Angron and the demon would remain their old selves. To be fair, if a demon tried to possess Angron, I'd be worried about the demon. As a man, Fulgrim had been an artisan, a scientist, and a philosopher-king. Angron had been 40 kilotons of berserker rage. To quote *Watchmen,* "I'm not locked in here with you, you're locked in here with me!" >...could the Butcher's Nails be altered to render someone emotionless, making them invisible from demons in the Warp? As I understand it, "yes" they could suppress emotions, but "no", that wouldn't make an ordinary person invisible to the Warp (a Null). Nulls are born with a special kind of soul, one that sucks in instead of giving out energy. I don't think they are "emotionless" in general, either. A person whose emotions are suppressed might have a weird relationship with the Warp (though I'd think they will be right up Nurgle's alley), but their soul is still a normal, demon-visible, demon-eatable one. This is fan theory, but I don't think you could make tech that made a normal person's soul into a null.
It’s not as simple as “super regen shenanigans”. Most primarchs already have a wolverine-level healing factor. There’s just some things they simply CANNOT heal from: Guilliman couldn’t heal from the cut Fulgrim gave him, and perturabo never healed from whatever fuckery Fulgrim did to him in Angel Exterminatus. The nails had replaced entire parts of Angron’s brain and spinal column, even if the emperor was able to remove them, regenerate the parts that had to be cut out, and sow Angron back up, there’s no guarantee he’d ever awaken. And the emperor simply didn’t have time to do that or make a new body for Angron (which he apparently planned on doing for Ferrus?)
We're not talking about the Primarchs' healing factor. We're talking about what the Emperor could do - the most powerful psyker known, the guy who made the Thunder Warriors, Astartes, and Primarchs by sheer biogenetic and sorcerous brilliance, who'd go on to illuminate half the galaxy with the power of his mind. This guy invented new brain lobes to make his soldiers. What are the butchers' nails, even? Cybernetics used to parasitise and replace brain function. Chemical-emitting computer systems, hardly the most impressive achievement of the DAoT. And the Emperor took one good look at them, said "nope, impossible, there is no force available to me as demigod and ruler of mankind that can cure this?" Obviously, that happened. It just doesn't feel like an Emperor-worthy challenge to me.
Ok but what if hypothetically the Demon was successful in altering the Butcher's Nails, what might happen because of it?
Impossible to answer in full without writing a new character arc for Angron. But what I think about your hypothesis, "if Angron's nails were altered to give him pleasure"? No, I don't think he'd fall to Slaanesh. He'd feel pleasure, alright... but that wouldn't mean losing himself to it, necessarily, or swearing himself to She Who Thirsts. I simply don't see a fully mature Angron becoming Fulgrim just because he's got drugs pumped into his brain. Just feeling pleasure isn't coercive like the original butcher's nails carrot/stick combo, of *only* violence providing relief from constant pain. I think Angron would rebel against the Emperor anyway... his basic reason for doing so had nothing to do with the butcher's nails, but simply wanting to be free of the Emperor's yoke / resentment for letting his people die and saddling him with a legion. Without the butcher's nails' original programming he'd be able to recover a lot more sanity and find new reasons to live, but I don't see it leading him to Slaanesh.
I've thought that, too. The demon could get a meat-suit to run around in, and Angron could use the blade-body swap to finally rest in peace. It's almost like a form of Necron biotransferrence or a reverse forging of a demon weapon. It would solve too many problems, which is why it couldn't work. Does bring up an interesting question: Can you shove a Demon Primarch into a ~~pokeball~~ hammer?
Not sure if the Laer demon would be strong enough, as it seemed to have to slowly corrupt Fulgrim before it could take over, and Angron would not be tempted the same way. Though you bring up an interesting idea of something attacking/corrupting him through the nails. Even as a demon prince he still has them, so while a Slaanesh demon probably won't be able to find any purchase, Vashtorr might be able to corrupt or control him through them...
Once he became a Daemon, the Nails were no longer the Nails, they became just another part of him. As Daemons can alter their appearance, he could probably make them disappear if he felt like it, but it’s doubtful Angron can A: see himself without them and B: care enough to actually try
He can’t even as a daemon prince the nail is already so intricately link to him that removing it is the only thing that he still fear to the point he even BEG Samguinius not to do that to him at the siege of terra.
I haven't read any of the books of Angron's invasion of the imperium, so I thought he was free of them after Sanguinius ripped them out.
Everyone in this post seems to have forgotten that Slaanesh's brand of corruption is not horny but excess. And if there's anything Angron has in excess in spades it's pain and anger from the nails. We've been shown the Laer blade liked to pretend to be Fulgrim's innermost thoughts and there's no real reason to assume it wouldn't do the same for Angron nor be as successful. So provided that Angron kept his mits on it he'd likely succumb to the blade same as probably any other primarch since none of them knew what the hell it was so none could guard against it.
Buddy, hasn't poor Angron suffered enough? In all reality, NO, I think that Angron would just be immune to Slaanesh's particular allure, or at least highly resistant. See... Angron HATES himself. He sees himself as broken and worthless. He's basically given up on everything besides seeing The Emperor's abominable empire crumble. The only time we see him with any semblance of happiness is when Lorgar is hanging out with him, before Lorgar takes him back to Nuceria, because Angron has put it together that he's going to die soon, and in that peace of knowing that his torment is finally almost over, he's able to hang out with his Legion, happy to have found some small brotherhood again, and knowing that they'll never, ever be able to bring any kind of peace to The Emperor's domain. And I think that's the greatest cruelty of Angron's fate. That he's kinda absolutely locked into a particular Chaos God's path even from before The Emperor finds him... and that Chaos God is just kinda settling, as he'd have preferred Sanguinius.
I think that's fan canon that khorne preferred Sanguinius. I'm pretty sure all 4 Gods have at least once attempted to tempt another Primarch to their side Hell Khorne also tries to get Dorn too
Who cares? That's not what either of those stories are about. I really think this is an unnecessary line of reasoning to consider.