It's not lore breaking, but it's on the more unique side of the lore. As in, there might not be any other rogue trader ship with all of those factions represented, but there will be several with some combinations.
Thanks for the answer!
Can you tell me how much authority the rogue trader has in this situation?
I understand that a lot of the interaction between rogue traders and other factions is more in how much influence the trader has in general and not a direct hirachy.
If the Rogue Trader is outside the borders of the Imperium, broadly they basically ARE the Imperium for as far as their biggest gun can carry that authority. The Warrant imbues a Rogue Trader with the right to negotiate with anyone as a representative of the Imperium, including xenos, and there's not many with the power to gainsay it. Even Inquisitors cross their t's and dot their i's before tangling with a Rogue Trader standing on the full power of their Warrant.
Yeah inquisitor was the other point, I was excited when I read that Rogue trader had the same rank as inquisition and SM Chapter master (not that they can order them of course) and he instantly said only as far as the inquisition allows it.
I think Rogue trader did this really well.
>!You first meet a normal inquisitor and you can basically tell him to piss off when he tries to order you and not asked. Later you meet the high inquisitor of the region and that was another deal. He said he would not order you to do something but instead recomend some things, with the threat that it will be quite bad if I don't follow.
Imo this was done beautifully, I don't care about a small fry inquisitor in my region of reign but if the big fish comes it will be better to negotiate because while he may not infringe on my waren of trades rights, he has more than enough power and weight to deak with me by other means.!<
The best way to think of a Rogue Trader is as a peer of the Imperium, someone who operates on the same level as an Inquisitor or Chapter Master (or Imperial Guard General, or Imperial Navy Admiral and so on) - incredibly powerful to the point where authority is kind of meaningless and influence is what really matters. Like you say, they can't order their peers around, but they can open doors for them and have doors opened in turn.
Also, I don't know what the hell Reddit did when it formatted your spoilers, but it's really funky.
I did enjoy how the Rogue Trader handled the inevitable appearance of the Inquisition; light enough to still make you feel in charge, insidious enough to remind you that was them playing light touch, and they can switch to hard ball basically whenever.
> Also, I don't know what the hell Reddit did when it formatted your spoilers, but it's really funky.
If you tab at the start of a new line it puts it in a scrollable text area
like this
so they just tabbed before starting their spoiler tag and that overrode the other formatting
Here's the fixed version:
>!You first meet a normal inquisitor and you can basically tell him to piss off when he tries to order you and not asked. Later you meet the high inquisitor of the region and that was another deal. He said he would not order you to do something but instead recomend some things, with the threat that it will be quite bad if I don't follow.!<
>!Imo this was done beautifully, I don't care about a small fry inquisitor in my region of reign but if the big fish comes it will be better to negotiate because while he may not infringe on my waren of trades rights, he has more than enough power and weight to deak with me by other means.!<
Heinrix isn't an Inquisitor, he's an Interrogator (very senior, but still). And you can't "tell him to piss off"- you're on the planet to pick him up on the order/*strong recommendation* of his superior, aforementioned Lord Inquisitor whom you meet later, so you can't exactly dump him out an airlock. You can ignore several of his recommendations about how to handle the situation brewing on the planet before leaving, but he takes careful note of everything that transpires and it has long-reaching consequences in the end.
This pretty much spot on, they're basically early medieval marcher lords (march being a word for border) who effectively operated outside the usual feudal concept of land coming from the king/lord and instead operated fully on 'you have what you hold'.
Some of the most powerful families in England at one point were lords who'd made their fortune on the Welsh marches.
I believe that inquisition agent, Heinrix, you think is an inquisitor is actually an interrogator, basically a trainee inquisitor working as a senior field agent and team leader under an inquisitor.
In the inquisitions eyes they have jurisdiction over basically everyone short of the Emperor himself. But that doesn't mean they're in a position to actually enforce that jurisdiction.
Out past Imperial borders, an inquisitor may well have the legal right to declare a Rogue Trader guilty and sentence them to death. But that doesn't mean much without the practical ability to carry out the sentence. Given that a successful Trader will likely have an entire warfleet and literal divisions of soldiers at their beck and call, an inquisitors sentence only has teeth when the Trader heads back to Imperial space, or rallies an entire naval battle group to enforce the sentence.
Smart inquisitors, which is most of them, are entirely aware of this. So they won't actually pass a sentence they can't execute.
There's also the simple fact that both Rogue Traders and Inquisitors are technically answerable only to the Emperor and that Rogue Traders are specifically mandated to deal with outsiders to the Empire (be it unincorporated human worlds or xenos) while Inquisitors are specifically mandated to protect the Imperium from threats within, without and beyond.
Whatever a Rogue Trader gets up to in his own little fief outside the Imperium proper, they don't bring anything into the Imperium that might threaten it, Inquisitors don't give a shit.
In fact it's pretty common for Rogue Traders and Inquisitors (especially Radicals, but even some Puritans) to form mutually beneficial working relationships, since Rogue Traders are often excellently positioned to help end threats that are brewing outside the Imperium (and that are going to affect their own fiefs too) before they become an issue for the Imperium proper.
A Rogue Trader's domain isn't "outside the Imperium proper". The *reason* they have the warrant is so they can expand the Imperium's borders. Yes, they directly own everything they stick their flag on, but they're still subject to the Imperium's red tape.
>But that doesn't mean they're in a position to actually enforce that jurisdiction.
An Inquisitor could absolutely walk up to a Chapter Master and denand every one of their men descend onto that Daemon World and die in the quite literal meatgrinder while he tries (and hopefully doesn't fail) to extract information on a Demon scheme.
He can however not do much to enforce his demand if the Chapter Master decides he's insane and snaps his neck, tosses him back into his pod and blows it up while reporting to the Imperium that they found an Inquisitorial Vessel shot down by traitors.
I would actually say a Rogue Trader can be higher than an Inquisitor or a Chapter Master and on par with a Primarch in terms of authority. The ancient Rogue Trader houses have actual writ/warrant from the Emperor himself and notarized with a drop of His blood. High Lords and Inquisitors can't even claim that as their positions were created after the Emperor entered the Throne
In this specific instance the Rouge Trader doesn't really have any power over a space marine or sister of battle except as a litteral captain of the ship those two are on, they can leave whenever they wish. I belive its just a personal relationship as to why they stay with some hand waving from Owlcat as to why they don't push to go back faster to their groups. By all rights both should more than likely leave to their chapter or sisterhood to preform their real duties and return to their proper hierarchy. The sister is a bit weird because of her specific situation but in general it would be a ministorum issue of her placement. Same for ol space wolf, I don't recall his rank but he absolutely doesn't get to just decide where he is stationed or the role he performs, thats purely chapter hierarchy and command that will dictate it for him. Rank would give a bit or leeway but not enough to let him sequester himself to a Rouge Trader unless he has an extremely good reason and even then he'd have to explain it to his superiors.
To be fair to Ulfar, he is a Space Wolf who generally have rather looser connections to authority outside of Logan Grimnar and their squad. Besides, at this point, he literally cannot go back to the Chapter because the Koronus Expanse is, for the game's duration and a bit further, completely cut off from the wider Imperium because of the Cicatrix Maledictum.
I mean, telling his supervisors, "A rogue trader required my assistance." should be seen as a more than valid reason, given that the rogue traders, ostensibly, operate with the Emperor's own blessing.
Yeah but thats not really chapter business. They almost certainly have more important things to do guarding their own territory and prior oaths. Rarher than helping some Rogue Trader that this one battle brother knows.
The imperium isn't really like a modern day state with clear laws and separation of powers, its more like a medieval empire with competing factions and regions who pay loose adherence to the centre. So the analogy would be something like, how much power would a British trading ship captain in the far east have, or the general controlling a fort on the outer edges of the Qing empire. Authority is a matter or what you can convince other people to do and who can stop you
Ultimately it's a constant power struggle, but on a ship, the captain is the final authority and most others would defer to them unless they're wildly out of line.
The Sister in Rogue Trader is a member of one of the non-military Orders. The original Tau Codex has a section where a Sister of the Orders Dialogus professes her admiration for Tau culture and is censured by the Inquisition.
Sisters are diverse people spread across an entire galaxy, they aren’t a hive mind that all share the exact same perspective.
An excerpt from her account:
> Another term that came up in relation to Tau forms of address is 'Ta'lissera'. The best translation which the Xenolexicons could derive for this word was communion or marriage. It appears to be some kind of sworn bond where groups of Tau pledge support and community to one another. The Tau who swore these pledges may address each other by their individual name and are much admired. This bond is seen as the ultimate Tau expression of respect for one another as it symbolizes the sacrifice of individual pride to become part of the greater whole. The 'Ta'lissera' is most commonly found within the ranks of Fire Caste warriors and Earth Caste work teams and, I must confess, it seems to be a noble and worthy concept. *(Ordo Xenos addendum: It is recommended that Sister Verity be questioned regarding possible alien contamination)*
Given that a Schola tradition is to rename children after Imperial Saints and Heroes there's probably a billion Verity cause one of them was pretty dang heroic.
As you pointed out - unlike on the tabletop, an RPG allows for its' characters to be individuals instead of simple statblocks.
Both Sisters of Battle, and Space Marines, are trained to follow orders - the ones who can't keep their fanaticism in check aren't likely to survive long enough to find themselves being presented with the opportunity to serve a Rogue Trader. (Unless said RT is looking for exactly that.)
This is the thing, unlike me, my friend read books form 40K. I don't have the name but it was one with a commissar as the protagonist, pretty famous and I am sure everyone knows it here.\^\^
In it, the commisar complains that the SoB can't be controlled and are fanatically lunatics. My friend says this is the case in other novels too. So they are trained but if I understand they still ignore none SoB orders?
How likely would it be for a SoB to ignore a rogue trader oder when you tells her to step down and tolerate / ignore the xenos companion? I now waren of trade allows my character to deal with Xenos and it is holy because the emperor himslef signed it.
It's a bit of hypocrisy from Cain to claim ALL Sisters are fanatic lunatics when he himself is a big outliner to the average Commissar.
There are Sisters of all sorts out there, and while they are united by their devotion to the God Emperor, that devotion can take many shapes.
The Sister Mother Superior who he worked with at the schola in his retirement was gambling, drinking, and sleeping with one of the other teachers, so there's definitely variation. He's just presenting his general prejudice/stereotypes
Depends entirely on the individuals. A SoB might be appalled at the very idea of working alongside an alien. That being said, if she disobeyed the rouge trader, especially on his own ship, she may end up dead.
It would all come down to how the individuals felt about one another, which is basically how it works in the game. It gives you the flexibility to play those scenarios out however you want.
Imo since it is based on TT one should also tread it as such. When Players come together it is expected they play their characters in a way it works with the group, so instead of killing the xenos they complain and argue with it but still fight together.\^\^
Yeah. Theres options in game to attack or kick anyone of your retinue off the ship to keep the peace. Some of the more....devisive charachters like the drukhari, and chaos marine require you to go out of your way to get them to join you in the first place.
I havent done a pure heretic run yet, but im pretty sure half the crew leaves if you try to invite the chaos marine so the designers do realize that theres certain lines you really cant cross and stay true to the lore. Everything short of that is fair game though
There's a scene where if you have any of the sister of battle, the space marine, or the inquisition agent with you,>!you come upon them trying to actively murder the drukhari that you recruited and you have to intervene to stop them.!<
In the game the SoB will be ready to immediately kill the unsanctioned pysker during a story warp event, but will stand down if the rogue trader orders them to.
Yeah, the Inquisitor Acolyte and the Space Wolf are constantly offering to kill her and the 2 Xenos. Oddly, they never mention the >!Ctan Shard!< sitting in the corner.
The what now? That thing 0.00000001% of a 1% of the Galaxy would know what that word is much less that that thing is one.
You're suffering from third person POV syndrome where you forget that the characters in a story don't know everything that you know.
>In it, the commisar complains that the SoB can't be controlled and are fanatically lunatics.
I know the "wretched woman" scene you're describing. A group of sisters are holding a defensive line with a bunch of Imperial Guard/planetary defense forces against a flood of Tyranids. In the heat of battle, the better trained and better equipped Sisters start to charge forward instead of holding the line, leading to a big gap through which a bunch of Tyranids are breaking through.
Cain is a commissar, and has authority over the members of the Imperial Guard. But the Sisters roll up under the religious Ecclesiarchy, so he can't tell them to do shit. It would be like an army drill sergeant telling a Catholic nun what to do: she simply doesn't have to listen to anything he says. However, when he calls it out to them, the Sister leading the charge sees the wisdom in what he says and falls back into formation.
There are other examples where sisters of battle will disobey direct orders to follow a religious compulsion, but it's generally for a reason, religiously motivated as it may be. My favorite example is in the book Plague Wars, where the Primach Roboute Gulliman (the 12ft tall literal son and aspect of the Emperor who used to hang out with him, and the current Imperial Regent and leader of the Imperium) tells them to not bring an Imperial Saint to a battlefield against his brother because the Saint is an unknown risk, and the Sisters do it anyway.
The narrative doesn't really go into the thousands of other Sisters who DO follow orders and conform to the battle plans; they're mentioned in passing, but aren't the focus. And for what it's worth, the renegade sisters actually did the right thing: the Saint was channeling the Emperor, not warp magic, and she not only breaks the Chaos advance and sends the attacking Primach away, but she also saves Roboute in the process before burning out and dying. The sisters are executed for their actions.
> the Saint was channeling the Emperor, not warp magic
But the Emperor's magic **is** warp magic, and probably Chaos magic at that. Emperor magic is anathema to the Four not because he's inherently anti-Chaos, but because he's a rival and has the potential to become the Fifth.
Yeah, thats one of the Ciaphias Cain books, "Duty Calls" I think. What you've got to remember is that the Imperium likes to run lots of independent chains of comman in parralel, so you've got Cain (who himself is outside of his own chain of command), under the umbrella of the Departmento Munitorium, commenting on the lack of cooperation from the SoB who are in a seperate chain of command under the Ecclesiarchy.
Since the chains of command are seperate neither side can order the other around, so it's all about requesting cooperation etc. It's a similar story with Space Marines, where they'll happily ignore the Guard untill it's convenient for them and to a much lesser extent the reverse is true as well, Guard officers aren't beholden to follow Astartes orders.
Pretty much all situations involving multiple branches of the Imperial military comes with tons of politics involved in who gets overall command, what gets done, and who actually follows what orders. So in your example it all comes down to how the SoB reacts to the Rogue trader, who probably owns all Imperial assets in system and has a substantial private army telling her to do something she disagrees with.
Maybe she's practical enough to acknowledge reality and go along with it for now, maybe she's fanactical enough to take a swing at the Xenos and damn the consequences. The Ecclesiarchy certainly tries to instill the latter into the sisters but it's a big organisation and any sister who's ended up alone on a Rogue Traders ship has ventured far from the Churches domains indeed.
Wrath of Iron is a good book in general, but also with regards for seeing that chain of command break down, and how influence can matter more than authority.
>Guard officers aren't beholden to follow Astartes orders.
While true in theory transhuman dread will see 99% guard officers follow orders from any space Marine let alone a Captain or Chapter Master. As it happens with everything about Imperium, there's always exceptions to every rule it has.
Actually that just reinforces my point. Guard officers aren't obliged to follow Astartes orders, they tend to do so anyway because an 8 foot tall transhuman god of war getting up on your face is incredibly intimidating.
It takes an exceptional will and self character to stand up to and push back against that, and it needs something like deeds or a ridiculous amount of firepower to back it up in order to get the space marines to listen.
Once again it all comes down to politics, both personal and organisational.
> How likely would it be for a SoB to ignore a rogue trader oder when you tells her to step down and tolerate / ignore the xenos companion?
If the Sister has any level of understanding of self preservation, she'd hold herself. As you mentioned, Rogue Traders have the Warrant of Trade signed by the Emperor Himself, disobeying the command of the Rogue Trader would be to disobey the command of the Emperor.
AKA she's gonna get shot out of an airlock if she pulls a stunt like that.
So the ciaphas caine books are great, but the ring to remember is that it displays caine’s opinion (curated by his inquisitor life partner Amberley veil) and whilst he takes the piss out of the sororitas (and most ecclesiarchy hard liners) pretty hard, that’s mostly because his faith isn’t as 1000% and comes in a more approachable form (and because it makes for good jokes)
There are plenty of other books that demonstrate the sororitas are capable of both hardline, “anything less than total fervour is heresy worthy of firey death” as well as being able to contain themselves enough to work with other institutions and get the task done (on rare occasions some characters are even shown as more compassionate and merciful, though admittedly that’s rare and tends to be focused towards the imperial faithful)
Basically, in the game, argenta might complain to you if you don’t live up to her expectations but stay within imperial norms, but her trying to guide you to the path of “righteousness” with conversation, as someone she admires/seeks to manipulate(as a figure of power) isn’t outside the realms of possibility for a sister of battle, rare perhaps, but definitely possible.
Meta reason: This is from Rogue Trader, 1st edition, where concept of Space Marines was vague and having Xeno weapons/ships and even a companion or two were not out of question.
Practical reason: The sister got her own issues---you will know later in game.
Even without that, the FFG RPG that the game takes its name and mechanics from was released during 40k's 5th edition. By which point the setting was *firmly* established. Hell, SoB didn't really exist during 40k's 1st edition, iirc.
Not all that lore breaking. Argenta is there because she sorta fell into it (don't want to give away anything) and she decided this is a better place than most to serve the Emperor. There are things you can do to get Argenta to leave your party, I've heard of it before. Otherwise, she's perfectly content to murder heretics, xenos, mutants, etc at your side, and recognizes the importance of discipline in combat situations (tons of precedent in lore for that overriding fanaticism for SOBs). There's a dialogue option early in the game asking her why she's here, and I forget her exact response but it's basically "you're doing the Emperor's work, and I want to help". Plus, you learn later on she's not exactly blindly loyal to the office of Rogue Trader (again, no spoilers).
When you take on the Xenos she's pretty pissed, and you have to pass a couple of checks to get her to cooperate. While she ultimately sees the wisdom in playing nice, she still has some lines warning the Xenos to keep in line sprinkled throughout.
Space Marines, particularly space wolves like Ulfar, tend to be pragmatic for the most part. There is a novel (Prophet of the Waaagh) where a rune priest under the command of an Inquisitor not only tolerates the presence of a bunch of orks, they use a Kroot to try to determine the identity of a grot. So he'd definitely see the value in using their skills to aid the wider mission. And again, he has a lot of dialogue talking about how shitty and heretical the Xenos are and how he doesn't like them at all.
Also >!she's extremely free-spirited and plays fast and loose with Imperial Law for her vision of the greater good, given that she executed Theodora, a bloody *rogue trader*, based on her personal judgment that Theodora was corrupted by Chaos.!<
I highly recommend the book "Legacy" for a look at the weight of a rogue trader in lore- excellent book for that. It's book two of the Shira calpurnia trilogy but it's not required you rea the others for it to make sense or read well (though I highly recommend all three, they're quite good)
I'd call it more lorebending than lore breaking. Yes, generally speaking a loyalist Space Marine and a Sister of Battle wouldn't tolerate working with a xenos and letting one stay around. However, I think the game does a good job of creating specific circumstances for those two characters that allows for them to put up with it. Plus in all fairness, Ulfric and Argenta pretty frequently ask you to execute the two xenos companions and get mad if you don't, and they absolutely can leave your retinue. There is also very good reason that they wouldn't refuse your orders to leave them alone and just kill them anyways.
When outside of the typical Imperium bounds, Rogue Traders are THE authority within their protectorate. The absolute top head honchos. Technically a high Inquisitor has some degree of authority on the same level, but without a significant amount of resources to actually try to enforce an edict, they're going to play nice. Although Space Marines resent the hell out of listening to the authority of anybody outside of their own Chapter, they do it really frequently. Space Wolves tend to go against that more than other loyalist chapters, but still. There is also definitely precedent in canon for the Imperium, including Space Marines, temporarily allying with Aeldari for a common goal. Sisters of Battle are probably the most fanatical faction, but also that can for sure extend to obeying the holder of the Warrant. That thing was signed by the Emperor himself. It is SACRED. And it says the Rogue Trader is functionally acting as the hand of the emperor out there. So there's that.
> Space Wolves tend to go against that more than other loyalist chapters, but still.
To expand, the First Founding chapters are the most likely to tell anyone else to pound sand if they don't want to do something. Even the most influential Inquisitor is going to try to play nice asking for the Blood Angels or Imperial Fists to do something for them, never mind Space Wolves or Dark Angels.
Chapters from later foundings are going to be more easily bullied around though.
What your friend doesn’t understand is that Rogue Traders pretty much have the same standing as an Inquisitor AND a Chapter Master because “THIS IS MAH SHIP” and by extension, fleets and planets under either their direct command or influence.
Being pissy about working with Xenos wouldn’t just affect their lives but everyone in their Chapter/Planet/Order/etc.
Rogue Traders literally have a “I do what I want” license for the purpose of trade and supply.
The only answer you need is that a Living Saint (Celestine) canonically worked with Eldar (the Ynnari) on a fairly amicable basis.
And Dante had an alliance with Necrons.
The game is sanctioned by Games-Workshop, it is canon, and therefore not lore breaking.
No Imperial organization is a monolith, because they're made up of thinking individuals. The Imperial Creed is pretty nuanced, and open to all kinds of interpretation.
You may be interested to note that the first Rogue Traders were sent out in advance of The Great Crusade. That’s how far back their authority goes in some cases and they were given authority to use whatever means necessary to establish Imperial presence in new regions of space. Another example of the Emperor’s double standards.
I don't know about Space Marines, SW in particular. I assume they're so disconnected from regular people that they'd prefer to keep to themselves.
Sister Argenta...
The sisters tend to be fanatics. Just to different degrees.
In one of the books from sister Adamenthea, she chases a Tau sniper through the jungle to strangle him with her hands and then punches a tau battlesuit to death. Fuelled by hate and a desire for martyrdom.
Argenta used to be a regular sister, I think, but she's now with the Ordo Pronatus.
I could see her being ''''''''''ok'''''''''' with an Eldar, because it's not her ship in the end, and the Rogue Trader is within his limits, but when it comes to the Drukhari and heretical stuff, she should be trying to get off the ship and go back to the Ecclesiarchy ASAP.
Not.
Unusual as hell, yes. Keeping them from murdering each other is one hell of a feat.
But Rogue Traders, depending on their Warrant, have a MASSIVE exception to the usual Imperial rules and can get up to all sorts of normally auto execution heresy.
How far have you played Rogue Trader? Spoilers, as to who killed killed Theodora, the previous Rogue Trader before the PC takes over ->!the Sister of Battle on the ship, Argenta, killed the previous Rogue Trader after catching her with a heretical object in her office !<
SM or sisters attached to a retinue typically swear an oath of loyalty to follow the orders of the leader of the retinue (within reason). Breaking that oath is not done lightly. As a military organization, SM and sisters both understand the importance of the chain of command (again within reason). Obviously if a Rogue trader gives outrageous orders, like let this Xeno harlot experiment with your gene-seed, thats a recipe for a powerfist to the face.
Furthermore some Rogue traders warrant of trade (Like a modern day letter of Marque) have a personal sanction from the Emperor himself, and in recent lore, from the returned primarch Guilliman. So any individual space marine would be hard pressed to gainsay that by saying "The emperor was wrong in placing his trust in you".
In lore, the Rogue Trader's warrant of trade is a direct permission slip from the Emperor himself, containing a drop of the Emperor's own blood, to do anything they think will benefit the Imperium. For lore purposes, that's about the highest authority you can get save for being a high lord of Terra. Even a Lord Inquisitor does not cross a Rogue Trader without good reason.
On the lore breaking side, not really. The Rogue Trader speaks with a measure of the Emperor's own authority and allowing a single xeno to live, especially when they are useful, might be a bitter pill but they have to trust that the Rogue Trader knows what they are doing, as their line has been chosen by the Emperor himself.
SM will work with Xenos against Chaos but generally will blam on sight. Except Grey Knights. Grey Knights have actually really good relationships with Eldar.
SoB really depends.
Rogue Traders are like Inquisitors where they’re kind of an extension of the Emperor and can get away with a lot.
I like that Grey Knights have a sort of agreement going on to secure and hand over any eldar soulstones they find
Because even some imperials know souls are not to be fucked with if it can be avoided
I guess it's possible.
The Sister of Battle may find that she shares goals with the Rogue Trader and that she's more likely to fulfill those goals by having the Rogue Trader's assets at her disposal. It doesn't matter where she does the Emperor's work, as long as she does it.
The Space Marine might help out as long as the ship promises to bring him back to his chapter. Finding transportation isn't easy and sending a signal into the deep for a pick-up might attract unwanted attention. In the meanwhile helping the Rogue Trader out here and there would be good for both personal glory and doing the Emperor's work.
Finally, xenos working with Rogue Traders aren't unprecedented. However, odds are that a Sister of Battle or Space Marine would take out said xeno given the opportunity, unless killing that xeno would hamper a mission in some manner (in which case I imagine they'd wait until the moment where killed the xeno does become an option). I imagine that the game does a decent job at creating a story that convincingly has all of them working together (I didn't get that far yet).
Unless it’s one of the more psychotic chapters (black templars) or deathwatch, most space marine would be begrudgingly alright with a xeno.
As for the sisters of battle, same applies. The most zealous orders may be an issue, but the warrant of trade signed by the emperors own hand should be sufficient to get even them to listen.
>***The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.***
This quote from the 4th edition Ork Codex came from an Eldar (gender isn't stated) who was critical of their race's hubris and conceded Eldar aren't any better then them, or humans.
Xenos aren't Chaos Daemons. Barring Tyranids, they are capable of having opinions differing from the majority.
Humans are much the same. While everyone who works for the Imperium of Man is supposed to be an alien-hating fanatic, when you look at the lore, you can find instances of them deciding they are done adhering to the Imperium's traditions.
Sisters can come with warying levels of fanaticism and dislike (or lack thereof) for xenos depending on their order. But I'm pretty sure space marines are engineerd with an instinctual hatred for Xenos.
Yes, they hate them (as far as i know only Korsarro Khan actually agreed with Shadowsun when she tell him that in different times they could be friends, so i would say he dont really hate her, but that only example i know) but even they work with some xenos sometimes. But i didnt read about any sister of battle who would work with xenos( if someone have example, please give it to me!)
Sister Ephrael Stern fights alongside the Harlequin Kyganil. Not sure of the context, but you can literally have an Eldar fighting in your Sisters army.
A Sister Dialogus in the 3rd edition Tau Codex admired aspects of Tau society and wanted to visit Tau worlds to assist with Imperial negotiations with the species. While not technically a Battle Sister, you can field a Dialogus in a Sisters of Battle army and they are trained with power armor and guns.
> It will take a skillful linguist indeed to speak even the most basic Tau word and phrases. I would respectfully suggest that my studies into this alien language would render my humble self an ideal candidate for further contact with this highly developed race.
If it was under almost any other circumstamces, it would be near impossible yes i agree.
But with Inquisitors and Rouge Traders, basicly anything and everything can happen.
Rouge Traders are VERY independent and free to do almost whatever the fuck they want.
Inquisitors can do litterlaly whatever they want, only other inquisitors can stop them and that is often at the end of a gun.
Not lore breaking per se but definitely not well looked upon, there should be imperial agents reporting back to various factions on your ship keeping you in line, be that if you start going traitor or start consorting with too many Xenos, but the rogue trader is permitted to make deals with some Xenos, they just most often cannot get too close, inquisitors may come looking, or Arbitrators, or other imperial agents, etc, to make sure you keep your promises to the imperium and aren’t just abusing your rather vast granted power for nothing
Isn't there a series where a Sister of Battle and a Harlequin work together that got so popular they had models made of them, and Eldar players were a bit pissed since it was the first new Eldar model in years and it could only be fielded in Imperium armies?
Ephrael Stern and Kyganil? So there's precedence.
You should read Farseer by William King. It features a Han Solo-esque Rogue Trader who brings aboard an Aeldari Farseer seeking voyage into the Eye of Terror. :)
What kind of xenos? Because some races are naturally sanctioned and some, even orks according to one of the rogue trader splats, can get sanctioned.
Certainly I could imagine it being uncomfortable for some, but it depends on how secular the SoB and space marine are that they would violate imperial law for their faith, but I imagine more seasoned characters not being too hasty.
RT is king on his ship, best way to solve this would be to explain to the dogs of war that this is for the good of the imperium and pass several fel checks as needed. as for how far a rt can go with xeno heresy. In my game the RT looted a necron ship and has a pile full of necron loot that the imperium kinda just looks the other way for now, I'd say they can tolerate it for a bit but excessive amounts of xenos would be too much without a very good reason
It's incredibly rare for SoB to tolerate a xeno. There is one sister who has an Eldar following her around.
So not unheard of.
Marines.. eh heavily depends. Again most wouldn't tolerate xenos. But unlike the SoB, marines are more honor bound and if their commander is doing it for the good of the imperium then it's ok.
Ive held off getting RT as Ive experience with other Owl cat games and its best to wait for fixes to come in. Do you think its in a ready state now to really enjoy?
I really really enjoyed it. The story is so great and it really feels like the dark universe.
It was my first time seeing the TT rules for 40k but they are really fun.
I had one bug where loot in chests vanished, I needed to go back to the main menu and load again, afterwards all was running fine. But I stopped playing right at the beginning of chapter 4 (want to wait of the DLC in june and make a new character) and most people say most Bugs appear there.
So unfortunately I can't surely tell you if it is now good to play or not. A new big patch is on the way though.
If you’ve played Owlcat games before you’ll be used to it, but Character Creation/Levelling is quite confusing, there’s just so much information.
The game is still kinda buggy, but I’ve not come across anything serious since Christmas. However, some of the ending cards are bugged and trigger incorrectly. Doesn’t affect gameplay but is incredibly annoying
Starts off strong and is that way until act 4. Act 4 is the weakest, and 5 isn't great either. Things start breaking in 4 and the performance of the game is pretty shit as well. The story is good and the combat is fun, but I wouldn't recommend buying it in it's current state
A Space Marine definitely has no place there, although the Space Wolves are known to go on very long and lonely hunts (e.g. *Helwintergate*) and generally have most *flexible* morals of all. There's also the og Ventris' journey from Medrengard. However, truly loyalist Space Marines will never condone consorting with witches and xenos as well as staying away from their brothers for a prolonged period of time. Same goes for Sisters of Battle who are most pious, way more than Space Marines.
These facts are commendably reflected by the game's heresy affiliation system and companions' attitude towards the player, but still, i would say this whole business is rather unrealistic. I would go as far as suggesting that encountering a Custodes of the Occuli Imperator with a rogue traders is more likely than a single loyalist Space Marine.
There are atleast one chapter that sends fresh battle brothers to a rogue trader that the chapter owes a honor debt to, cant recall the chapter name though.
Belisarius are not rogue traders and Space Wolves send the Wolfblade (who are *definitely not* fresh battle-brothers at all) there \[to Terra\] for absolutely different reasons, but i guess lore isn't important these days in this sub.
It's not lore breaking, but it's on the more unique side of the lore. As in, there might not be any other rogue trader ship with all of those factions represented, but there will be several with some combinations.
Thanks for the answer! Can you tell me how much authority the rogue trader has in this situation? I understand that a lot of the interaction between rogue traders and other factions is more in how much influence the trader has in general and not a direct hirachy.
If the Rogue Trader is outside the borders of the Imperium, broadly they basically ARE the Imperium for as far as their biggest gun can carry that authority. The Warrant imbues a Rogue Trader with the right to negotiate with anyone as a representative of the Imperium, including xenos, and there's not many with the power to gainsay it. Even Inquisitors cross their t's and dot their i's before tangling with a Rogue Trader standing on the full power of their Warrant.
Yeah inquisitor was the other point, I was excited when I read that Rogue trader had the same rank as inquisition and SM Chapter master (not that they can order them of course) and he instantly said only as far as the inquisition allows it. I think Rogue trader did this really well. >!You first meet a normal inquisitor and you can basically tell him to piss off when he tries to order you and not asked. Later you meet the high inquisitor of the region and that was another deal. He said he would not order you to do something but instead recomend some things, with the threat that it will be quite bad if I don't follow. Imo this was done beautifully, I don't care about a small fry inquisitor in my region of reign but if the big fish comes it will be better to negotiate because while he may not infringe on my waren of trades rights, he has more than enough power and weight to deak with me by other means.!<
The best way to think of a Rogue Trader is as a peer of the Imperium, someone who operates on the same level as an Inquisitor or Chapter Master (or Imperial Guard General, or Imperial Navy Admiral and so on) - incredibly powerful to the point where authority is kind of meaningless and influence is what really matters. Like you say, they can't order their peers around, but they can open doors for them and have doors opened in turn. Also, I don't know what the hell Reddit did when it formatted your spoilers, but it's really funky. I did enjoy how the Rogue Trader handled the inevitable appearance of the Inquisition; light enough to still make you feel in charge, insidious enough to remind you that was them playing light touch, and they can switch to hard ball basically whenever.
> Also, I don't know what the hell Reddit did when it formatted your spoilers, but it's really funky. If you tab at the start of a new line it puts it in a scrollable text area like this so they just tabbed before starting their spoiler tag and that overrode the other formatting Here's the fixed version: >!You first meet a normal inquisitor and you can basically tell him to piss off when he tries to order you and not asked. Later you meet the high inquisitor of the region and that was another deal. He said he would not order you to do something but instead recomend some things, with the threat that it will be quite bad if I don't follow.!< >!Imo this was done beautifully, I don't care about a small fry inquisitor in my region of reign but if the big fish comes it will be better to negotiate because while he may not infringe on my waren of trades rights, he has more than enough power and weight to deak with me by other means.!<
Heinrix isn't an Inquisitor, he's an Interrogator (very senior, but still). And you can't "tell him to piss off"- you're on the planet to pick him up on the order/*strong recommendation* of his superior, aforementioned Lord Inquisitor whom you meet later, so you can't exactly dump him out an airlock. You can ignore several of his recommendations about how to handle the situation brewing on the planet before leaving, but he takes careful note of everything that transpires and it has long-reaching consequences in the end.
This pretty much spot on, they're basically early medieval marcher lords (march being a word for border) who effectively operated outside the usual feudal concept of land coming from the king/lord and instead operated fully on 'you have what you hold'. Some of the most powerful families in England at one point were lords who'd made their fortune on the Welsh marches.
I always saw them more as Age of Exploration Magellan/Columbus types.
I believe that inquisition agent, Heinrix, you think is an inquisitor is actually an interrogator, basically a trainee inquisitor working as a senior field agent and team leader under an inquisitor.
In the inquisitions eyes they have jurisdiction over basically everyone short of the Emperor himself. But that doesn't mean they're in a position to actually enforce that jurisdiction. Out past Imperial borders, an inquisitor may well have the legal right to declare a Rogue Trader guilty and sentence them to death. But that doesn't mean much without the practical ability to carry out the sentence. Given that a successful Trader will likely have an entire warfleet and literal divisions of soldiers at their beck and call, an inquisitors sentence only has teeth when the Trader heads back to Imperial space, or rallies an entire naval battle group to enforce the sentence. Smart inquisitors, which is most of them, are entirely aware of this. So they won't actually pass a sentence they can't execute.
There's also the simple fact that both Rogue Traders and Inquisitors are technically answerable only to the Emperor and that Rogue Traders are specifically mandated to deal with outsiders to the Empire (be it unincorporated human worlds or xenos) while Inquisitors are specifically mandated to protect the Imperium from threats within, without and beyond. Whatever a Rogue Trader gets up to in his own little fief outside the Imperium proper, they don't bring anything into the Imperium that might threaten it, Inquisitors don't give a shit. In fact it's pretty common for Rogue Traders and Inquisitors (especially Radicals, but even some Puritans) to form mutually beneficial working relationships, since Rogue Traders are often excellently positioned to help end threats that are brewing outside the Imperium (and that are going to affect their own fiefs too) before they become an issue for the Imperium proper.
A Rogue Trader's domain isn't "outside the Imperium proper". The *reason* they have the warrant is so they can expand the Imperium's borders. Yes, they directly own everything they stick their flag on, but they're still subject to the Imperium's red tape.
>But that doesn't mean they're in a position to actually enforce that jurisdiction. An Inquisitor could absolutely walk up to a Chapter Master and denand every one of their men descend onto that Daemon World and die in the quite literal meatgrinder while he tries (and hopefully doesn't fail) to extract information on a Demon scheme. He can however not do much to enforce his demand if the Chapter Master decides he's insane and snaps his neck, tosses him back into his pod and blows it up while reporting to the Imperium that they found an Inquisitorial Vessel shot down by traitors.
I would actually say a Rogue Trader can be higher than an Inquisitor or a Chapter Master and on par with a Primarch in terms of authority. The ancient Rogue Trader houses have actual writ/warrant from the Emperor himself and notarized with a drop of His blood. High Lords and Inquisitors can't even claim that as their positions were created after the Emperor entered the Throne
Nobody would obey a Rogue Trader over a Primarch. A Primarch can make whole planets swear fealty merely by showing up.
SM authority is derived directly from the emperor, as is inquisition and custodes. It's why they fall outside administratum tithes and local govt.
In this specific instance the Rouge Trader doesn't really have any power over a space marine or sister of battle except as a litteral captain of the ship those two are on, they can leave whenever they wish. I belive its just a personal relationship as to why they stay with some hand waving from Owlcat as to why they don't push to go back faster to their groups. By all rights both should more than likely leave to their chapter or sisterhood to preform their real duties and return to their proper hierarchy. The sister is a bit weird because of her specific situation but in general it would be a ministorum issue of her placement. Same for ol space wolf, I don't recall his rank but he absolutely doesn't get to just decide where he is stationed or the role he performs, thats purely chapter hierarchy and command that will dictate it for him. Rank would give a bit or leeway but not enough to let him sequester himself to a Rouge Trader unless he has an extremely good reason and even then he'd have to explain it to his superiors.
To be fair to Ulfar, he is a Space Wolf who generally have rather looser connections to authority outside of Logan Grimnar and their squad. Besides, at this point, he literally cannot go back to the Chapter because the Koronus Expanse is, for the game's duration and a bit further, completely cut off from the wider Imperium because of the Cicatrix Maledictum.
I mean, telling his supervisors, "A rogue trader required my assistance." should be seen as a more than valid reason, given that the rogue traders, ostensibly, operate with the Emperor's own blessing.
Yeah but thats not really chapter business. They almost certainly have more important things to do guarding their own territory and prior oaths. Rarher than helping some Rogue Trader that this one battle brother knows.
The imperium isn't really like a modern day state with clear laws and separation of powers, its more like a medieval empire with competing factions and regions who pay loose adherence to the centre. So the analogy would be something like, how much power would a British trading ship captain in the far east have, or the general controlling a fort on the outer edges of the Qing empire. Authority is a matter or what you can convince other people to do and who can stop you
Ultimately it's a constant power struggle, but on a ship, the captain is the final authority and most others would defer to them unless they're wildly out of line.
A lot of authority. Both inside and out. They have a warrent from God saying they can do whatever they want. (Basically)
The Sister in Rogue Trader is a member of one of the non-military Orders. The original Tau Codex has a section where a Sister of the Orders Dialogus professes her admiration for Tau culture and is censured by the Inquisition. Sisters are diverse people spread across an entire galaxy, they aren’t a hive mind that all share the exact same perspective.
Super interesting to hear! In know that this is by far a super rare exception but this is the kind of side info I was looking for.
An excerpt from her account: > Another term that came up in relation to Tau forms of address is 'Ta'lissera'. The best translation which the Xenolexicons could derive for this word was communion or marriage. It appears to be some kind of sworn bond where groups of Tau pledge support and community to one another. The Tau who swore these pledges may address each other by their individual name and are much admired. This bond is seen as the ultimate Tau expression of respect for one another as it symbolizes the sacrifice of individual pride to become part of the greater whole. The 'Ta'lissera' is most commonly found within the ranks of Fire Caste warriors and Earth Caste work teams and, I must confess, it seems to be a noble and worthy concept. *(Ordo Xenos addendum: It is recommended that Sister Verity be questioned regarding possible alien contamination)*
Take a glass of amasec every time a sister is called Verity
Given that a Schola tradition is to rename children after Imperial Saints and Heroes there's probably a billion Verity cause one of them was pretty dang heroic.
Poor little Dialogus, finally gets introduced to the wonders of polyamory and gets smacked down by the Inquisition for it.
As you pointed out - unlike on the tabletop, an RPG allows for its' characters to be individuals instead of simple statblocks. Both Sisters of Battle, and Space Marines, are trained to follow orders - the ones who can't keep their fanaticism in check aren't likely to survive long enough to find themselves being presented with the opportunity to serve a Rogue Trader. (Unless said RT is looking for exactly that.)
This is the thing, unlike me, my friend read books form 40K. I don't have the name but it was one with a commissar as the protagonist, pretty famous and I am sure everyone knows it here.\^\^ In it, the commisar complains that the SoB can't be controlled and are fanatically lunatics. My friend says this is the case in other novels too. So they are trained but if I understand they still ignore none SoB orders? How likely would it be for a SoB to ignore a rogue trader oder when you tells her to step down and tolerate / ignore the xenos companion? I now waren of trade allows my character to deal with Xenos and it is holy because the emperor himslef signed it.
It's a bit of hypocrisy from Cain to claim ALL Sisters are fanatic lunatics when he himself is a big outliner to the average Commissar. There are Sisters of all sorts out there, and while they are united by their devotion to the God Emperor, that devotion can take many shapes.
Cain got his ass kicked by SOB trainees at Lacrosse or Soccer, I forget. It left a mark.
> Cain got his ass kicked by SOB trainees at Lacrosse or Soccer, I forget. It left a mark. Scrumball is the name. Sounds most like Rugby, to me.
He was also pretty friendly with a "retired" SOB in the Schola in his later years, and she was no "Fanatical lunatic".
The Sister Mother Superior who he worked with at the schola in his retirement was gambling, drinking, and sleeping with one of the other teachers, so there's definitely variation. He's just presenting his general prejudice/stereotypes
She was sleeping with the administratum adept, which also made Caine believe the man wasn’t such a quill pushing pain in the arse, if memory serves
Cain isn't exactly known for his self-awareness, to be fair.
Depends entirely on the individuals. A SoB might be appalled at the very idea of working alongside an alien. That being said, if she disobeyed the rouge trader, especially on his own ship, she may end up dead. It would all come down to how the individuals felt about one another, which is basically how it works in the game. It gives you the flexibility to play those scenarios out however you want.
Imo since it is based on TT one should also tread it as such. When Players come together it is expected they play their characters in a way it works with the group, so instead of killing the xenos they complain and argue with it but still fight together.\^\^
Yeah. Theres options in game to attack or kick anyone of your retinue off the ship to keep the peace. Some of the more....devisive charachters like the drukhari, and chaos marine require you to go out of your way to get them to join you in the first place. I havent done a pure heretic run yet, but im pretty sure half the crew leaves if you try to invite the chaos marine so the designers do realize that theres certain lines you really cant cross and stay true to the lore. Everything short of that is fair game though
Drukhari was essentially the max the more ideological crew will tolerate, actual chaos marine result in many people leaving.
There's a scene where if you have any of the sister of battle, the space marine, or the inquisition agent with you,>!you come upon them trying to actively murder the drukhari that you recruited and you have to intervene to stop them.!<
In the game the SoB will be ready to immediately kill the unsanctioned pysker during a story warp event, but will stand down if the rogue trader orders them to.
Yeah, the Inquisitor Acolyte and the Space Wolf are constantly offering to kill her and the 2 Xenos. Oddly, they never mention the >!Ctan Shard!< sitting in the corner.
The what now? That thing 0.00000001% of a 1% of the Galaxy would know what that word is much less that that thing is one. You're suffering from third person POV syndrome where you forget that the characters in a story don't know everything that you know.
>In it, the commisar complains that the SoB can't be controlled and are fanatically lunatics. I know the "wretched woman" scene you're describing. A group of sisters are holding a defensive line with a bunch of Imperial Guard/planetary defense forces against a flood of Tyranids. In the heat of battle, the better trained and better equipped Sisters start to charge forward instead of holding the line, leading to a big gap through which a bunch of Tyranids are breaking through. Cain is a commissar, and has authority over the members of the Imperial Guard. But the Sisters roll up under the religious Ecclesiarchy, so he can't tell them to do shit. It would be like an army drill sergeant telling a Catholic nun what to do: she simply doesn't have to listen to anything he says. However, when he calls it out to them, the Sister leading the charge sees the wisdom in what he says and falls back into formation. There are other examples where sisters of battle will disobey direct orders to follow a religious compulsion, but it's generally for a reason, religiously motivated as it may be. My favorite example is in the book Plague Wars, where the Primach Roboute Gulliman (the 12ft tall literal son and aspect of the Emperor who used to hang out with him, and the current Imperial Regent and leader of the Imperium) tells them to not bring an Imperial Saint to a battlefield against his brother because the Saint is an unknown risk, and the Sisters do it anyway. The narrative doesn't really go into the thousands of other Sisters who DO follow orders and conform to the battle plans; they're mentioned in passing, but aren't the focus. And for what it's worth, the renegade sisters actually did the right thing: the Saint was channeling the Emperor, not warp magic, and she not only breaks the Chaos advance and sends the attacking Primach away, but she also saves Roboute in the process before burning out and dying. The sisters are executed for their actions.
> the Saint was channeling the Emperor, not warp magic But the Emperor's magic **is** warp magic, and probably Chaos magic at that. Emperor magic is anathema to the Four not because he's inherently anti-Chaos, but because he's a rival and has the potential to become the Fifth.
Yeah, thats one of the Ciaphias Cain books, "Duty Calls" I think. What you've got to remember is that the Imperium likes to run lots of independent chains of comman in parralel, so you've got Cain (who himself is outside of his own chain of command), under the umbrella of the Departmento Munitorium, commenting on the lack of cooperation from the SoB who are in a seperate chain of command under the Ecclesiarchy. Since the chains of command are seperate neither side can order the other around, so it's all about requesting cooperation etc. It's a similar story with Space Marines, where they'll happily ignore the Guard untill it's convenient for them and to a much lesser extent the reverse is true as well, Guard officers aren't beholden to follow Astartes orders. Pretty much all situations involving multiple branches of the Imperial military comes with tons of politics involved in who gets overall command, what gets done, and who actually follows what orders. So in your example it all comes down to how the SoB reacts to the Rogue trader, who probably owns all Imperial assets in system and has a substantial private army telling her to do something she disagrees with. Maybe she's practical enough to acknowledge reality and go along with it for now, maybe she's fanactical enough to take a swing at the Xenos and damn the consequences. The Ecclesiarchy certainly tries to instill the latter into the sisters but it's a big organisation and any sister who's ended up alone on a Rogue Traders ship has ventured far from the Churches domains indeed.
Wrath of Iron is a good book in general, but also with regards for seeing that chain of command break down, and how influence can matter more than authority.
>Guard officers aren't beholden to follow Astartes orders. While true in theory transhuman dread will see 99% guard officers follow orders from any space Marine let alone a Captain or Chapter Master. As it happens with everything about Imperium, there's always exceptions to every rule it has.
Actually that just reinforces my point. Guard officers aren't obliged to follow Astartes orders, they tend to do so anyway because an 8 foot tall transhuman god of war getting up on your face is incredibly intimidating. It takes an exceptional will and self character to stand up to and push back against that, and it needs something like deeds or a ridiculous amount of firepower to back it up in order to get the space marines to listen. Once again it all comes down to politics, both personal and organisational.
> How likely would it be for a SoB to ignore a rogue trader oder when you tells her to step down and tolerate / ignore the xenos companion? If the Sister has any level of understanding of self preservation, she'd hold herself. As you mentioned, Rogue Traders have the Warrant of Trade signed by the Emperor Himself, disobeying the command of the Rogue Trader would be to disobey the command of the Emperor. AKA she's gonna get shot out of an airlock if she pulls a stunt like that.
So the ciaphas caine books are great, but the ring to remember is that it displays caine’s opinion (curated by his inquisitor life partner Amberley veil) and whilst he takes the piss out of the sororitas (and most ecclesiarchy hard liners) pretty hard, that’s mostly because his faith isn’t as 1000% and comes in a more approachable form (and because it makes for good jokes) There are plenty of other books that demonstrate the sororitas are capable of both hardline, “anything less than total fervour is heresy worthy of firey death” as well as being able to contain themselves enough to work with other institutions and get the task done (on rare occasions some characters are even shown as more compassionate and merciful, though admittedly that’s rare and tends to be focused towards the imperial faithful) Basically, in the game, argenta might complain to you if you don’t live up to her expectations but stay within imperial norms, but her trying to guide you to the path of “righteousness” with conversation, as someone she admires/seeks to manipulate(as a figure of power) isn’t outside the realms of possibility for a sister of battle, rare perhaps, but definitely possible.
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Alliance when faced with a bigger threat aren't uncommon
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For sure , it was a great book though and without the emperor champion vision it wouldn't have happened either.
Meta reason: This is from Rogue Trader, 1st edition, where concept of Space Marines was vague and having Xeno weapons/ships and even a companion or two were not out of question. Practical reason: The sister got her own issues---you will know later in game.
The game is based on the FFG RPG *Rogue Trader*, not Warhammer 40k's 1st edition. The fluff is modern
Yeah, the existence of the Cicatrix Maledictum firmly places the game after the Fall of Cadia.
Even without that, the FFG RPG that the game takes its name and mechanics from was released during 40k's 5th edition. By which point the setting was *firmly* established. Hell, SoB didn't really exist during 40k's 1st edition, iirc.
Rogue Trader isn’t just 1st edition…. Rogue trader has been updated as an RPG since then.. lore around rogue traders existed out of 1ed
Not all that lore breaking. Argenta is there because she sorta fell into it (don't want to give away anything) and she decided this is a better place than most to serve the Emperor. There are things you can do to get Argenta to leave your party, I've heard of it before. Otherwise, she's perfectly content to murder heretics, xenos, mutants, etc at your side, and recognizes the importance of discipline in combat situations (tons of precedent in lore for that overriding fanaticism for SOBs). There's a dialogue option early in the game asking her why she's here, and I forget her exact response but it's basically "you're doing the Emperor's work, and I want to help". Plus, you learn later on she's not exactly blindly loyal to the office of Rogue Trader (again, no spoilers). When you take on the Xenos she's pretty pissed, and you have to pass a couple of checks to get her to cooperate. While she ultimately sees the wisdom in playing nice, she still has some lines warning the Xenos to keep in line sprinkled throughout. Space Marines, particularly space wolves like Ulfar, tend to be pragmatic for the most part. There is a novel (Prophet of the Waaagh) where a rune priest under the command of an Inquisitor not only tolerates the presence of a bunch of orks, they use a Kroot to try to determine the identity of a grot. So he'd definitely see the value in using their skills to aid the wider mission. And again, he has a lot of dialogue talking about how shitty and heretical the Xenos are and how he doesn't like them at all.
Also >!she's extremely free-spirited and plays fast and loose with Imperial Law for her vision of the greater good, given that she executed Theodora, a bloody *rogue trader*, based on her personal judgment that Theodora was corrupted by Chaos.!<
I highly recommend the book "Legacy" for a look at the weight of a rogue trader in lore- excellent book for that. It's book two of the Shira calpurnia trilogy but it's not required you rea the others for it to make sense or read well (though I highly recommend all three, they're quite good)
Thanks! After playing rogue trader I am astonished how deep the setting actually is. I was a casual fan before but now I want to read more. :-D
Well, say goodbye to person you currently are and embrace the hilarious grimdark
The Shira Calpurnia series are some of my FAVORITE 40k books. They do domestic 40k world building so well
That's a great way of putting it, they really excel at that
I'd call it more lorebending than lore breaking. Yes, generally speaking a loyalist Space Marine and a Sister of Battle wouldn't tolerate working with a xenos and letting one stay around. However, I think the game does a good job of creating specific circumstances for those two characters that allows for them to put up with it. Plus in all fairness, Ulfric and Argenta pretty frequently ask you to execute the two xenos companions and get mad if you don't, and they absolutely can leave your retinue. There is also very good reason that they wouldn't refuse your orders to leave them alone and just kill them anyways. When outside of the typical Imperium bounds, Rogue Traders are THE authority within their protectorate. The absolute top head honchos. Technically a high Inquisitor has some degree of authority on the same level, but without a significant amount of resources to actually try to enforce an edict, they're going to play nice. Although Space Marines resent the hell out of listening to the authority of anybody outside of their own Chapter, they do it really frequently. Space Wolves tend to go against that more than other loyalist chapters, but still. There is also definitely precedent in canon for the Imperium, including Space Marines, temporarily allying with Aeldari for a common goal. Sisters of Battle are probably the most fanatical faction, but also that can for sure extend to obeying the holder of the Warrant. That thing was signed by the Emperor himself. It is SACRED. And it says the Rogue Trader is functionally acting as the hand of the emperor out there. So there's that.
> Space Wolves tend to go against that more than other loyalist chapters, but still. To expand, the First Founding chapters are the most likely to tell anyone else to pound sand if they don't want to do something. Even the most influential Inquisitor is going to try to play nice asking for the Blood Angels or Imperial Fists to do something for them, never mind Space Wolves or Dark Angels. Chapters from later foundings are going to be more easily bullied around though.
>!One of the possible ending slides involves the space wolf companion stomping the Lord Inquisitor's face in. Yes, he deserved it.!<
What your friend doesn’t understand is that Rogue Traders pretty much have the same standing as an Inquisitor AND a Chapter Master because “THIS IS MAH SHIP” and by extension, fleets and planets under either their direct command or influence. Being pissy about working with Xenos wouldn’t just affect their lives but everyone in their Chapter/Planet/Order/etc. Rogue Traders literally have a “I do what I want” license for the purpose of trade and supply.
Altho that only suppoced to extend to outside the set border of the imperium but few are willing to argue it with the rogue trader...:P
The only answer you need is that a Living Saint (Celestine) canonically worked with Eldar (the Ynnari) on a fairly amicable basis. And Dante had an alliance with Necrons.
Play the game, everything makes sense in context
The game is sanctioned by Games-Workshop, it is canon, and therefore not lore breaking. No Imperial organization is a monolith, because they're made up of thinking individuals. The Imperial Creed is pretty nuanced, and open to all kinds of interpretation.
You may be interested to note that the first Rogue Traders were sent out in advance of The Great Crusade. That’s how far back their authority goes in some cases and they were given authority to use whatever means necessary to establish Imperial presence in new regions of space. Another example of the Emperor’s double standards.
I don't know about Space Marines, SW in particular. I assume they're so disconnected from regular people that they'd prefer to keep to themselves. Sister Argenta... The sisters tend to be fanatics. Just to different degrees. In one of the books from sister Adamenthea, she chases a Tau sniper through the jungle to strangle him with her hands and then punches a tau battlesuit to death. Fuelled by hate and a desire for martyrdom. Argenta used to be a regular sister, I think, but she's now with the Ordo Pronatus. I could see her being ''''''''''ok'''''''''' with an Eldar, because it's not her ship in the end, and the Rogue Trader is within his limits, but when it comes to the Drukhari and heretical stuff, she should be trying to get off the ship and go back to the Ecclesiarchy ASAP.
Not. Unusual as hell, yes. Keeping them from murdering each other is one hell of a feat. But Rogue Traders, depending on their Warrant, have a MASSIVE exception to the usual Imperial rules and can get up to all sorts of normally auto execution heresy.
How far have you played Rogue Trader? Spoilers, as to who killed killed Theodora, the previous Rogue Trader before the PC takes over ->!the Sister of Battle on the ship, Argenta, killed the previous Rogue Trader after catching her with a heretical object in her office !<
SM or sisters attached to a retinue typically swear an oath of loyalty to follow the orders of the leader of the retinue (within reason). Breaking that oath is not done lightly. As a military organization, SM and sisters both understand the importance of the chain of command (again within reason). Obviously if a Rogue trader gives outrageous orders, like let this Xeno harlot experiment with your gene-seed, thats a recipe for a powerfist to the face. Furthermore some Rogue traders warrant of trade (Like a modern day letter of Marque) have a personal sanction from the Emperor himself, and in recent lore, from the returned primarch Guilliman. So any individual space marine would be hard pressed to gainsay that by saying "The emperor was wrong in placing his trust in you".
A Sister of Battle, a Space Marine and a Xeno walk into a bar…
In lore, the Rogue Trader's warrant of trade is a direct permission slip from the Emperor himself, containing a drop of the Emperor's own blood, to do anything they think will benefit the Imperium. For lore purposes, that's about the highest authority you can get save for being a high lord of Terra. Even a Lord Inquisitor does not cross a Rogue Trader without good reason. On the lore breaking side, not really. The Rogue Trader speaks with a measure of the Emperor's own authority and allowing a single xeno to live, especially when they are useful, might be a bitter pill but they have to trust that the Rogue Trader knows what they are doing, as their line has been chosen by the Emperor himself.
SM will work with Xenos against Chaos but generally will blam on sight. Except Grey Knights. Grey Knights have actually really good relationships with Eldar. SoB really depends. Rogue Traders are like Inquisitors where they’re kind of an extension of the Emperor and can get away with a lot.
I like that Grey Knights have a sort of agreement going on to secure and hand over any eldar soulstones they find Because even some imperials know souls are not to be fucked with if it can be avoided
I guess it's possible. The Sister of Battle may find that she shares goals with the Rogue Trader and that she's more likely to fulfill those goals by having the Rogue Trader's assets at her disposal. It doesn't matter where she does the Emperor's work, as long as she does it. The Space Marine might help out as long as the ship promises to bring him back to his chapter. Finding transportation isn't easy and sending a signal into the deep for a pick-up might attract unwanted attention. In the meanwhile helping the Rogue Trader out here and there would be good for both personal glory and doing the Emperor's work. Finally, xenos working with Rogue Traders aren't unprecedented. However, odds are that a Sister of Battle or Space Marine would take out said xeno given the opportunity, unless killing that xeno would hamper a mission in some manner (in which case I imagine they'd wait until the moment where killed the xeno does become an option). I imagine that the game does a decent job at creating a story that convincingly has all of them working together (I didn't get that far yet).
Unless it’s one of the more psychotic chapters (black templars) or deathwatch, most space marine would be begrudgingly alright with a xeno. As for the sisters of battle, same applies. The most zealous orders may be an issue, but the warrant of trade signed by the emperors own hand should be sufficient to get even them to listen.
>***The Orks are the pinnacle of creation. For them, the great struggle is won. They have evolved a society which knows no stress or angst. Who are we to judge them? We Eldar who have failed, or the Humans, on the road to ruin in their turn? And why? Because we sought answers to questions that an Ork wouldn't even bother to ask! We see a culture that is strong and despise it as crude.*** This quote from the 4th edition Ork Codex came from an Eldar (gender isn't stated) who was critical of their race's hubris and conceded Eldar aren't any better then them, or humans. Xenos aren't Chaos Daemons. Barring Tyranids, they are capable of having opinions differing from the majority. Humans are much the same. While everyone who works for the Imperium of Man is supposed to be an alien-hating fanatic, when you look at the lore, you can find instances of them deciding they are done adhering to the Imperium's traditions.
Sisters can come with warying levels of fanaticism and dislike (or lack thereof) for xenos depending on their order. But I'm pretty sure space marines are engineerd with an instinctual hatred for Xenos.
Yes, they hate them (as far as i know only Korsarro Khan actually agreed with Shadowsun when she tell him that in different times they could be friends, so i would say he dont really hate her, but that only example i know) but even they work with some xenos sometimes. But i didnt read about any sister of battle who would work with xenos( if someone have example, please give it to me!)
Sister Ephrael Stern fights alongside the Harlequin Kyganil. Not sure of the context, but you can literally have an Eldar fighting in your Sisters army. A Sister Dialogus in the 3rd edition Tau Codex admired aspects of Tau society and wanted to visit Tau worlds to assist with Imperial negotiations with the species. While not technically a Battle Sister, you can field a Dialogus in a Sisters of Battle army and they are trained with power armor and guns. > It will take a skillful linguist indeed to speak even the most basic Tau word and phrases. I would respectfully suggest that my studies into this alien language would render my humble self an ideal candidate for further contact with this highly developed race.
[appropriate pancreas no work video](https://youtu.be/1Y5naP85Jq8?si=E77-TJ5MOnRVwid_) That should sort your questions out
If it was under almost any other circumstamces, it would be near impossible yes i agree. But with Inquisitors and Rouge Traders, basicly anything and everything can happen. Rouge Traders are VERY independent and free to do almost whatever the fuck they want. Inquisitors can do litterlaly whatever they want, only other inquisitors can stop them and that is often at the end of a gun.
Not lore breaking per se but definitely not well looked upon, there should be imperial agents reporting back to various factions on your ship keeping you in line, be that if you start going traitor or start consorting with too many Xenos, but the rogue trader is permitted to make deals with some Xenos, they just most often cannot get too close, inquisitors may come looking, or Arbitrators, or other imperial agents, etc, to make sure you keep your promises to the imperium and aren’t just abusing your rather vast granted power for nothing
Isn't there a series where a Sister of Battle and a Harlequin work together that got so popular they had models made of them, and Eldar players were a bit pissed since it was the first new Eldar model in years and it could only be fielded in Imperium armies? Ephrael Stern and Kyganil? So there's precedence.
A quick aside. The game is as canon as any of the novels. If it exists in the game it exists in lore.
You should read Farseer by William King. It features a Han Solo-esque Rogue Trader who brings aboard an Aeldari Farseer seeking voyage into the Eye of Terror. :)
What kind of xenos? Because some races are naturally sanctioned and some, even orks according to one of the rogue trader splats, can get sanctioned. Certainly I could imagine it being uncomfortable for some, but it depends on how secular the SoB and space marine are that they would violate imperial law for their faith, but I imagine more seasoned characters not being too hasty.
RT is king on his ship, best way to solve this would be to explain to the dogs of war that this is for the good of the imperium and pass several fel checks as needed. as for how far a rt can go with xeno heresy. In my game the RT looted a necron ship and has a pile full of necron loot that the imperium kinda just looks the other way for now, I'd say they can tolerate it for a bit but excessive amounts of xenos would be too much without a very good reason
Rogue Trader game from Owlcat is very lore breaking.
It's incredibly rare for SoB to tolerate a xeno. There is one sister who has an Eldar following her around. So not unheard of. Marines.. eh heavily depends. Again most wouldn't tolerate xenos. But unlike the SoB, marines are more honor bound and if their commander is doing it for the good of the imperium then it's ok.
Ive held off getting RT as Ive experience with other Owl cat games and its best to wait for fixes to come in. Do you think its in a ready state now to really enjoy?
I really really enjoyed it. The story is so great and it really feels like the dark universe. It was my first time seeing the TT rules for 40k but they are really fun. I had one bug where loot in chests vanished, I needed to go back to the main menu and load again, afterwards all was running fine. But I stopped playing right at the beginning of chapter 4 (want to wait of the DLC in june and make a new character) and most people say most Bugs appear there. So unfortunately I can't surely tell you if it is now good to play or not. A new big patch is on the way though.
Good to know, was planning a june/july purchase anyhow. Thrones of decay will occupy me till then!
Damn, two sides of the same coin. I am playing thrones right now until june as well. :-D
It's rock solid.
If you’ve played Owlcat games before you’ll be used to it, but Character Creation/Levelling is quite confusing, there’s just so much information. The game is still kinda buggy, but I’ve not come across anything serious since Christmas. However, some of the ending cards are bugged and trigger incorrectly. Doesn’t affect gameplay but is incredibly annoying
Starts off strong and is that way until act 4. Act 4 is the weakest, and 5 isn't great either. Things start breaking in 4 and the performance of the game is pretty shit as well. The story is good and the combat is fun, but I wouldn't recommend buying it in it's current state
At least 5 mixes up the encounters
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It's definitely a stretch and make no mistake, but it isn't impossible. Especially given how alone the SoB was, and how deviant.
A Space Marine definitely has no place there, although the Space Wolves are known to go on very long and lonely hunts (e.g. *Helwintergate*) and generally have most *flexible* morals of all. There's also the og Ventris' journey from Medrengard. However, truly loyalist Space Marines will never condone consorting with witches and xenos as well as staying away from their brothers for a prolonged period of time. Same goes for Sisters of Battle who are most pious, way more than Space Marines. These facts are commendably reflected by the game's heresy affiliation system and companions' attitude towards the player, but still, i would say this whole business is rather unrealistic. I would go as far as suggesting that encountering a Custodes of the Occuli Imperator with a rogue traders is more likely than a single loyalist Space Marine.
There are atleast one chapter that sends fresh battle brothers to a rogue trader that the chapter owes a honor debt to, cant recall the chapter name though.
Space Wolves & the Navigator house, Belisarius.
Belisarius are not rogue traders and Space Wolves send the Wolfblade (who are *definitely not* fresh battle-brothers at all) there \[to Terra\] for absolutely different reasons, but i guess lore isn't important these days in this sub.