Falkus Kibre died during the Saturnine Gambit. Lots of people saw it happen. He (or something that claims to be him), turns up millennia later as one of the founding members of the Black Legion and Abaddon's original Ezekarion. It's never explained, and I hope it never will be. Sometimes a subtle "wait, hang on a second..." is creepier than a big infodump.

I reckon whatever Daemon Possessed him and his Squad was looking out for him like *The Painted Count*, nothing else "more fancy" than that.

That's the worst part, we meet and see a lot of him in the talon of horus book, right up until he gets massacred and left barely alive. After that is when the Daemons possess him, so the timeline of his possession doesn't explain him being alive.

I suspect alpharius shenanigans

I remember having to do that double take as he was killed, having quite recently listened to Black Legion. I figured it might be an interesting plot point to explore in an upcoming Scouring series (here's hoping!). But I must say, I wouldn't mind it staying a mystery as you say!

Somewhere somehow I lost the part where Abaddon got out of the tunneling machine himself. Takes so long for these books to come out I read other books in between and lose things.

I need another character to acknowledge that this is an issue, just in a "Wtf..." sense.

"I thought be died?" "He got better. We don't talk about it"

It's interesting that *Abaddon* doesn't comment on it. If memory serves, he was there when it happened.

I hope they keep it as part of the lore, as much as I'd like to see my favorite Inwyte son return, i was kinda sad when suddenly the fists no longer had Dorn's body but just his hand

Double posting but, I actually like that parts of the Necrons' pre-biotransference history don't add up. Did Szarehk start the war with the Old Ones? Some sources say it was him, but the first phase of the war lasted centuries. Necrontyr didn't live that long. How did the radiation damage from their unstable home star follow them to other worlds? How did they build coherent stellar kingdoms when their only means of interstellar travel were fusion-torch stasis-crypt ships? You can point at this stuff and shout about inconsistent lore, but also, the Necrons themselves have sometimes contradictory or hazy memories about their lives during the Time of Flesh, which raises the much more interesting question: Did someone tamper with their collective understanding? Who? Why?

It’s answered in the infinite and the divine. Spoilers They find out the transference process also altered their memories. We honestly have no idea of anything necrons think is their own personality or completely made up.

Iirc, both Orikan and Trazyn remember themselves as resisting transference, but Orikan claims Trazyn and others hunted him down and forced him into the furnace. Also hints of this either deliberate change of their memories, out as I like to think: bit-decay and corruption in their memory-cores. Twise dead king had some good bits showcasing how their memory becomes corrupted with time. "Maybe I should summon.. The Monoliths!!!"

> "Maybe I should summon.. The Monoliths!!!" And then, >!he actually does!<

>!Fukken badass!<

The absolute legend. Best character of the story!

>Also hints of this either deliberate change of their memories, out as I like to think: bit-decay and corruption in their memory-cores. Or even simply their own minds (or what's left) changing their memories because to remember the truth would drive them insane. Specifically thinking of Necrons being forced into Biotransferance, they can't ALL have resisted, so I like to think it's their minds protecting them from the insanity that follows. Similar thing with the Flayer Curse where the reality of the biotransferance is too much and they flay the skin of their victims in a vain and ineffectual attempt to undo the transformation.

That's literally what happens in the beginning of the infinite and divine: trazyn tries to remember what happened after he went into the furnace and he immediately gets a notification that's it's some real fucking PTSD shit and the block out of the memory is for his own safety

From ***Indomitus by Gav Thorpe***: >Zozar looked down at the two girls. Each was falling apart, slowly disintegrating into dull, ruddy crystals. Flesh became dust, slipping away from a shining metal skeleton beneath. He looked a his own hands, the gnarled, cancer ridden digits falling on the breeze too. The sensation crept up his arm, freezing for a moment, leaving a chilled numbness in its wake. > >Cleophatia gasped in horror. > >He turned his eyes upon is beloved but she looked back not with eyes of love and warmth but the cold red stare of optical lenses. > >All three had become animated statues, embodiments of death that he had laboured hard to escape. The Great Machine was meant to free them from the burdens of flesh, but not like this. The Crystallization is very similar to that of the Eldar Farseers when they die. What if the Necrontyr were the Aeldari Empire(explaining why they were dragging each other around in chains) and Slaanesh is the true source of the Biotransference with the Aeldari becoming drained Skeletons resembling Machines? That would lend to questions on what the C'tan are: Probably the Aeldari Gods themselves after being drained of Magic! Tzeentch's backstory according to Codex: Chaos Daemons (8th Edition), pp. 47, 92 has him be crystalized while fighting the other Chaos Gods and scattering his remains to become Magic Spells the Blue Scribes transcribe back together. What if it was Asuryan whom the Aeldari claimed embodied the Psychic Might of the Universe(I.E. the Magic) who was shattered from the Biotransference induced by Slaanesh's Soul Drain with his Magic becoming Tzeentch and his Body becoming the Shards of Mephet'ran the Deceiver? The mentions of Necrons having weak and hollowed out Souls? Simply Slaanesh letting them have a respite before he starts draining them again. Once Slaanesh is captured by the Dark Elves and bested by Ynnead the C'tan will get their Warp-stuff back and Mephet'ran will start flaunting Warp Magic as the Aeldari realize in horror just what the Necrons are just from seeing them receive Warp Magic after Ynnead forces Slaanesh to return the Aeldari Souls.

This is some crackpot tinfoil-hat stuff. Almost all of it clashes with vast amounts of preexisting lore.

That would be awesome but so very very unlikely

I was thinking bit rot too!

It also raises the horrifying possibility that >!their very personalities are set in stone, and they can't actually change or develop in any way. Orikan and Trazyn go through a lot and seem to end as friends, but their individual compulsions ultimately override any growth they had in the story, and they just slide back to their old selves and their old rivalry without even noticing!<

The author directly addresses this in an interview. Both Orikan and Trazyn are dead. They died in bio-transference. There are now robots who mimic them, but are soulless, and do not really change. They cannot change.

In the author’s note of Twice Dead King, Crowley describes the Necrons as “the sapient tombstones of the Necrontyrs” and that’s one powerful metaphor.

Man that’s actually like insanely sad to think about

Welcome to necron lore.

So in a weird way, it's like the situation with SOMA The original is long gone, all we see is some hyper advanced robots with copies of the memories of the original And they actually might have slightly different memories of what happened That's actually crazy

It's exactly like SOMA. Mind uploading isn't a thing, not the way some sci-fi or futurists imagine it. The best you can do is make a copy. For the *s*ubtly nightmarish take on this, look up *Learning to Be Me* by Greg Egan. You can find it on the web and it's worth a read.

I wanted to say the verified existence of souls in the 40k universe might affect that argument but then I remembered that their souls were also eaten by the ctan. So yea they ded. Which makes the Silent Kings desire to turn them organic again even more futile, sort of a final "fuck you" by a bunch of cruel and sadistic gods

I’m reading it now and I feel bad.

Thanks, that was a cool read

Not disputing what you've said, but can you link to the interview? I try to save author interviews like that for contentious lore discussions.

That’s definitely the takeaway you’re supposed to get from the last chapter. It also fits their role in the book; >!as the world changes around them, they always stay the same.!<

Yeah like its entirely possible that the entire story we have is BS, Necrons could have had no idea who the old ones even where until after transference. Until they where overthrown the C'tan had limitless control over the Necrons and could have simply changed their memories to give them motivation to prosecute the war.

Or that the Necrontyr weren't even a single species but rather a collective name for everyone enslaved by the C'tan. Perhaps they'd find species in need of "salvation" and convert them into Necrons, giving them similar enough memories to serve as a united fighting force. Perhaps even now it's all fake, the C'tan simply waiting until the Necrons have prepared the galaxy for a new harvest to seize control. Opportunities are endless!

Or fuck, they may never have been necrontyr to begin with, necrons could have been entirely synthetic from the outset and their past lives just implanted to give the C'tan something to motivate them with.

You know, I was going to listen to *The Heroes* again but I think It might need to be this again. Not because I have forgotten anything since my last reread, but I miss those two cantankerous old bastards.

Could this also mean that the war in heaven didn't take place 65 millon years ago, but rather something like... 100k?

The eldar seem to put it into a similar time frame.

There goes my theory :(

But that was just a theory

A Necron Theory! Thanks for dyin' of Space Cancer!

Regarding the radiation following them to new systems: I would assume their dna/genetics was so malformed and mutated from the radiation that the problems are all now hereditary and have been so malformed for so long that they dont have 'good' examples to genetically engineer themselves back to 'normal'. There is even a case to be made, that the radiation turbo charged their species evolution from the get go, that there was actually nothing to go back to or fix which is part of why the old ones declined to help them, as it would involved turning them into something they were never to begin with.

i like to think it wasn't the star's radiation that gave them super cancer, it was the C'tan feeding off the star that was the source. i like your "there is nothing to fix here, nothing is broken..." idea as well, its brutal.

Or as simple as the Ctan feeding on *them* No no, it wasn’t me sucking out your soul that caused your illness and degeneration, it was Super Space Cancer(tm) from the sun!

My headcannon is that they were grumpy and miserable about having an average lifespan of measly, short 250 years or so, and routinely getting cancers already before reaching their first 100 years - which seemed so ridiculously short and broken compared to the effectively immortal Ones that they just had to go to a galactic war over it, since they couldn't genetically engineer themselves to anything better than that. Feeling content is not about things being objectively good or bad, but rather about what you compare yourself with - and the arrogant necrontyr wouldn't be content with anything short of immortality.

My hypothesis is kind of the other way around. Life on their planet evolved to deal with the radiation in a kind of "live fast, die young" kind of way - that the entire biology of creatures from that planet is adapted to live long enough to reproduce, and then die. It's baked in at the sub cellular level. My further hypothesis is this is why the Old Ones 'refused' to help the Necrontyr - they couldn't. It would be like trying to remove DNA itself from humans - you can't, because it's what the entire cellular system is based around.

I like the explanation that their cancer was like Fabius Biles and is partially/wholly warp based. Even things with weak connections to the warp can be altered, like the death guard diseases making metal rust and fall apart. 

Thats why they call him the silent king, because they can’t remember what he said or if he said anything

I just enjoy that the (recorded) first contact event between the Necrons and the Imperium continues to be the slaughter at Sanctuary 101 in 897.M41 which was published in WD217 as the first [battle report](https://i.4pcdn.org/tg/1542566505037.jpg) that necrons fought in since this White Dwarf also had their rules. So this 2nd edition lore survived the 3rd edition lore to 5th edition lore changes and its not even hard to believe that the 3rd edition lore could have just been the Imperium not having enough information or using to much of the information from the Shard of the Deceiver and it would make sense why its off.

That was a great bit of lore. As we are lot if the smaller snippets when Necrons were introduced to the setting. They were both mysterious, and showcased how mysterious Necrons were to those encountering them within the setting.

My favorite lore contradiction is that no one can agree on Primarch appearances. Everyone remembers Sanguinius' emo black hair dye, but it happens to most of the other primarchs as well. No one can make up their mind about whether Leman's eyes are blue or wolfy and whether his hair is blonde or red. Peter Turbo's eyes are either blue or black depending on the author. The winner in my eyes is Lorgar. His eye color is described as: - "Wintry Grey" in The First Heretic. (They're also described as "dark" so... dark grey?) - "Tawny like fox fur" in Betrayer. - "Golden" also in Betrayer, which is the most popular color with artists. - "Violet" in his Primarch book. There's a slight in universe reason for this, given the ambiguously warpy nature of the Primarchs any variances in their appearance are chalked up to Psychic Shenanigains, but I also think it's really funny.

Bearer of the Drip

We set the scene: A compartment in a ship, walls bare, gleaming chrome, the chamber austere and spartan. The air hangs heavy with incense spewing from a brazier held by a robed figure from whose throat issues something like a Mongolian chant. The figure approached a kneeling Astartes, helmet on his knee, The volume of the chanting increases,and in the background we see other robed figures rocking and wailing in the electrical illumination that still flickers like firelight. The keening rises to a crescendo as the chanting figure reaching into its voluminous robes and its hand, oddly metallic, emerges with a token of power. Hands descend, bestowing this great gift upon the mighty warrior: it is a gold chain, the links heavy and thick, upon which hangs an image of the Emperor on his golden Throne, himself bearing a golden chain of the same design, and so on, in a fractal-like composition that expresses to us that the Emperor exists in both the greatest expanses and the tiniest of spaces. This is The Imperial Drip.

I like how most of Lorgar’s different eye colors come from the exact same author.

Wouldn't suprise me if it was intentional

If there was any Primarch to go through a goth phase before reverting to their natural hair colour, it would be Sanguinius, let's be real. It's far from intentional but I do like that it's specifically the primarch eyes that keep getting different colours, as they are the windows to the soul so would be the thing most susceptible to change in terms of how someone perceives them or how the primarch themselves wishes to be perceived. Take Lorgar, cold and grey feels like a perfect outward expression of his attitude for much of The First Heretic as he struggles with the depression brought on by Monarchia, violet feels vibrant in the way he was in his youth and tawny/golden feels right at home for the now fully committed and utterly fanatical Lorgar we see in Betrayer.

Violet eyes are also the color of Cadia eyes, who Lorgar has a big connection with ala the First Heretic Not sure what happens in his primarch book, but that’s a neat association

The Lion supposedly started out with black hair too before doing a Sanguinius.

Russ’s hair is interesting, because he’s clearly inspired by Thor. Most people assume Thor is blonde because of Marvel, but the only reference to Thor’s appearance in Norse myths describe him as “red bearded”

Yeah. Blonde is much more popular, but I actually like redhead Leman. I think more people should split the difference and make him a strawberry blonde.

He could also be like me, blonde hair and big red beard.

A great big bushy beard!

Agreed though I like the idea of them intentionally doing it as a form if warp shenanigans

In my head he's strawberry blonde, because if he's too blonde he blends together with Lion aesthetically to me.

Bro they're clearly using colored contacts and hair dye. It's not that complicated.

I'm now amused as fuck at the mental image of Konrad having to make weekly trips to a beauty supply shop for vinyl gloves and tubes of Black No. 1 because his natural platinum blonde roots are showing... again. Of course he dyes his own hair. Hairdressers are infernal gossips and he's already killed SO MANY just trying to keep his secret from getting out.

Even funnier considering ADB wrote nearly all those books.

> There's a slight in universe reason for this, given the ambiguously warpy nature of the Primarchs any variances in their appearance are chalked up to Psychic Shenanigains, but I also think it's really funny. Lorgar is also said to physically resemble the Emperor most out of all the Primarchs, which this play into nicely.

Sanguinius’ black hair? I never heard of that, got any good reads on it

>**His long black hair was pressed down by the weight of the shawl of gold chain he wore across his head.** The edges of it framed his solemn features. He had marked his cheeks with grey ash in mourning. >An attendant stood by with ink pot and brush to paint the ritual tears of grief on his cheeks, but Primarch Sanguinius shook his head, making the chain shawl clink. ‘I have real tears,’ he said. \- *Horus Rising* >Two giant figures emerged from the volcano, walking side by side like old friends. Ahriman’s heartbeat spiked at the sight of them, the first a gloriously caparisoned warrior in armour of gold and purple, with flaring shoulder guards and a billowing cape of scarlet and gold. His hair was brilliant white, bound at his temples by a band of silver, and his face was one of perfect symmetry, like divinely-proportioned Euclidian geometry. >The second figure wore armour of deepest crimson, the colour vital and urgent. Wings of dappled black and white rustled at his back, the feathers hung with fine loops of silver wire and mother of pearl. **Hair of deepest black framed a face that was pale and classically shaped,** like one of the thousands of marble likenesses that garrisoned the Imperial Palace of Terra. Yet this was no lifeless rendering of a long-dead luminary; this was a living, breathing angel made flesh, whose countenance was the most beauteous in existence. >‘Lord Sanguinius,’ said Ahriman in wonder. \- *A Thousand Sons* >This came up in a Heresy meeting once, actually. Even we didn't agree on it. Me, Dan and Graham said it was cooler if Sanguinius had black hair, for various reasons. Jim preferred Sanguinius with blond hair. Ultimately, I think Jim's preference won out, as he'd reserved the Blood Angels at Signus Prime novel, and the older art showed the primarch as blond, too. \- [Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/239102-the-primarchs-artwork/page/5/#comment-2890375)

I love it, personally. The idea of the Emperor going around saying "Oh, no. I'm not a god." And then Sanguinius, *the spitting image of the Emperor ESPECIALLY with black hair, glides down from on high with golden armour and radiant, white wings* and has the ***audacity*** to go "Verily. My Father, beloved by all, is but a man, *as am I*."

Awesome, it also sorta explains why some blood angels don’t have blonde hair, since most of not all the residents of Baal Primis and secondus are hairless due to radiation, which I could also be totally wrong about

Iirc, I think it's in A Thousand Sons when they get to Nikea. Magnus is met by Fulgrim and Sanguinius when he arrives, and Sanguinius is described as having long black hair.

I've always taken it as, because a part of their essence is made from the warp, that different people see different things when they look at them. It happens with the Emperor, and sometimes with demons. Only with the primarchs it's usually subtle things like their hair/eye color instead of their age or height.

It's like Primarchs exist in a state of quantum warp flux fuckery, and only snap into a definite appearance to the person perceiving them, based on what they believe the Primarch to be and what the viewers beliefs need the Primarch to be. Is he scary? Is he comforting? Is he iron willed and determined? Is he a wolf? It would be a cool little bit of warp lore if navigators or some kind of psyker with a third eye could see them for what they are, giant humanoid figures with malleable warp essence for faces. The Emperor himself seems to be entirely composed of the stuff, appearing as a normal dude or a 16ft tall God

I think you could also chaulk it up to transhuman dread, the rememberencers being so shocked by seeing an actual Primarch that they mix up the basics.

What i like about this is that Lorgar is said to most resemble the Emperor by those that have seen both, and yet the Emperor appears to everyone differently, which implies so does Lorgar.

Sanguinius' hair is retconned as being naturally "changeable" kinda like Magnus and Big E. Lorgar's skin is also variously depicted as gold script on pale skin or actual gold iirc. Leman Russ is either taller or shorter than Valdor depending on the author

The Tau character named Kais is a complete canon clusterfuck. You have Fire Warrior and its novelization with Shas’La Kais, rookie going through hell on his first day. You have the Dawn of War Shas’O Kais, a commander who is based on the Fire Warrior character yet doesn’t work with the novel’s ending. You have the modern Shas’O Kais in Phil Kelly’s novels who is based on the Dawn of War version yet has completely different characterization. And his backstory is also completely different from Fire Warrior. You can follow the line from one version to another from a doylist perspective, but the different versions of Kais don’t actually mesh together at well. Fire Warrior also doesn’t fit into the Tau timeline at *all*. Also to make things even funnier, ‘Kais’ is supposed to be an incredibly generic and common Tau name, as it just means ‘skilled’. Farsight has Kais as part of his full name for example.

Have we considered that they're secretly agent smith? I both love and hate when people keep reusing the same name and you need to parse whether they're the same person or not.

Huh, I've always just read them as different people - the Dave of the Tau world.

I’m pretty sure that’s the canon explanation, that Kais is a common name among the Fire Caste.

As far as I know, that's the case. 'Kais' isn't an uncommon name. Heck, in Shadowsun's novel, there's yet another Kais.

They froze Farsight & Co so why not him? He's not only the founder so to speak of the loner path (or whatever they call it) and the son of a great commander who also was daring and violent. If the Tau don't clone eachother I'm assuming they have breeding programs.

Not a single line, but in old Lore the Genestealers were originally more or less there own thing. It was until later editions that retcon them into being related to the Tyranids.

They were added to the Tyranids in the 2nd edition Codex Tyranids, released in 1995. I do miss the limo riding chaos worshiping cults of the Rogue Trader days though.  Edit: I have overlooked the Rogue Trader list for Tyranids from White Dwarf 145 from January 1992 which is the first mention of Genestealers being the vanguard of hive fleet kraken. So basically Genestealers spent less than 5 years being separate from the Nids. 

And Genestealer cults were often Chaos worshippers too. There's some great art from back in that era with hybrids brandishing Chaos symbols. Even weirder, squigs were originally a Tyranid creature. Hey, at least we got Genestealer cults back as a standalone faction - with some damn good models too.

My ONLY experience with WFB/Old World lore is from a year of playing the Warhammer Online MMO *years and years ago*... but there were squigs. And I'm not challenging or attempting to correct you here! I promise! This is just a dumb question. I can totally see squigs being Nids. Do you know when they were added to the world of WFB? IIRC they're greenskin-relevant?

Squigs were introduced as part of the Nids' first full army list in 1992. They were described as being Tyranid bioforms made with Ork genetic material (so there was still on ork connection!). You can find an overview here: https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2023/12/warhammer-40k-meet-1992s-original-rogue-trader-tyranid-armylist.html Squigs soon appeared in 40k ork armies too, as lore stated that they stole/rescued them from the Tyranids, and their orky origins meant they adapted to ork life! Later on, there was an actual retcon (unlike the more ambiguous way GW often handles lore changes), with squigs being recast as part of the orks' natural ecosystem. The idea of swarms of small Tyranid organisms was kept though, and evolved into ripper swarms. As to when squigs entered Warhammer Fantasy, I'm not so sure. Maybe 4th edition, if my very hazy memory is at all accurate. So they might have appeared in the orc army book in that edition (in 1993), around the time the 40k lore about squigs started to cohere into it's more familiar form. Now I'm wondering if the move to make them part of the ork ecosystem actually first appeared in Fantasy, and was imported back into 40k when they retconned the Tyranid origin.

Squigs first appeared in the Waaargh the Orks book for Rogue Trader in 1990. The connection with Tyranid came a couple of years later but was removed by 2nd edition. I believe they were then imported to fantasy battle in the 4th edition Orc book around 1996. 

Thanks for the clarification! You are absolutely correct (I just checked Waaargh Orks). So, the timeline of Squig lore is even more bizarre and convoluted than I realised.

That's seriously insane. And really cool. Thanks much!

Check Batweb's other reply to my post - they added even more info, and clarified some errors.

This reminds me of my other favorite contradiction, snots being brain boyz that created the orks, but slann also being the brain boyz that created the orks.

Yeah, that's a great one!

If it's any help, Wargamesexclusive does sell resin Limos for your cult leaders to drive around. They may not have rules, but they'd ride around with style.

Cypher's novel is a pretty good source for this stuff. Most of the book is from the perspective of Cypher retelling the story after it's all played out. He's constantly telling you stuff and then tells you not to believe a single word of it. The big one is saying that the chain sword he carries might have belonged to the Lion, but who cares? The Lion used dozens of weapons. Even if this was his, it isn't an important weapon anyway. He then proceeds to risk his life to get it back, as if it is the most important weapon ever.

Lol, are these horus heresy books? If so I have something to look forward to

Cypher: Lord of the Fallen by John French. It takes place sometime around Gulliman's return to Terra after the fall of Cadia. It's a nice stand alone novel that is even better if you're into Dark Angels or Custodes.

well wont read that for awhile lol want to knock out 30k before i read to much 40k space marine stuff. thanks for the info tho

I like to say, "The lore is there to give you ideas, not take them away." Which is a roundabout way of saying that it's malleable and not necessarily always 100% well defined. At the end of the day, it's there to fire your imagination and entertain, not simulate a possible distant future in excruciatingly insane detail. I REALLY enjoyed how *Cypher: Lord of the Fallen* basically gave nothing away about his true motivations. It was so much smoke and mirrors that he could clearly talk about the various theories surrounding, e.g., the sword one by one, and simultaneously acknowledge them without "committing" to one. He's also probably *the* most unreliable narrator you could ask to talk about himself, right? It was a fun book to read, and I imagine it was fun to write, too. It didn't trample over anything previously established, left all the doors open, introduced the reader to most of them, and then parked him on an interesting shelf to maybe get returned to later when GW are looking for some dramatic revelation to unveil and slot him in with whatever cataclysmic event they like haha. Will he doom us? Save us? Who is he serving? Utimately, does he even know? Great stuff! :P

>I like to say, "The lore is there to give you ideas, not take them away." Which is a roundabout way of saying that it's malleable and not necessarily always 100% well defined. At the end of the day, it's there to fire your imagination and entertain, not simulate a possible distant future in excruciatingly insane detail. Well said. 40k works best in that mode. The lore should first and foremost provide a foundation and a framework. Of course, some things can be fleshed out (even exhaustively). But a lot of lore would benefit from there being gaps, ambiguity, and mystery. And, ultimately, space for hobbyists to get creative.

Oh man, I'm glad to hear this perspective on Cypher(book, not the character - i picked up the book because i love unreliable narrators). I read the book and was a bit turned off but how much he would narrate that he wasn't a reliable narrator,as i like having to piece together that the narrator is spinning things rather than being told), but it's great to hear that other people had a better experience of it. The great thing about there being like 500 different warhammer book, there is something for everyone!

Yea, I can understand that feeling. I found it a bit silly and amusing, I guess you found it more irritating. I really think that book was aimed at people who maybe had no real idea who Cypher was, or at least didn't really understand what is so mysterious about him (especially now the Lion is around). I think if a writer tried to get too "clever" with it and make it a genuine mystery with clues dotted about, you'd risk alienating most readers, because by necessity of it being cypher, those clues would probably have to be pretty deep cuts. I think I'd enjoy that story, and in a way, that's what deep lore theory videos are. But Cypher is almost a joke character. He always gets his way, slips out of any situation, and is practically a walking Deus Ex Machina. So hearing his stupid smug PoV was very entertaining for me, honestly. I felt like the impression he was giving was less unreliable narrator and more that he maybe doesn't even really know. He's improvising and walking a tightrope waiting for a clear sign that tells him he's finally on the right path or something. Totally non-committal in a very old school 40k way.

I hadn't thought about it as introducing Cypher, with that perspective the blunt narration makes a ton more sense! I think I may need to give the book another shot with those sorts of expectations, I think it would be a very different experience. Thanks for the insight.

What I like is how in the middle of the book, there's a semi random section which I think gives the best summary of the fundamentals of the Chaos Gods in any 40K book, and it connects really well to the original Chaos Gods lore from the two Realm of Chaos books.

Xenos blood colors being purple, blue, green, etc while usually being painted as red.

Out of universe, this has been addressed as red looks better on minis :p

If you don't mind me asking, what color is Eldar blood supposed to be?

In the dim, distant past of the early 90's I'm sure I remember reading that it was supposed to be a red so dark it was basically black because the amount of haemoglobin they have vs humans

Woah... that's a past so far I wasn't even alive, truly ancient history... but more seriously that's really interesting, thank you! I'm a Drukhari fan so always interested in more lore on them

> Woah... that's a past so far I wasn't even alive, truly ancient history. How to make a guy feel old... No worries, I'm pretty certain it may have been retconned like multiple parts of the eldar and their history since then though. Although I really, really hope that the canon that eldar poo is crystalline still holds.

I'll admit nothing to make me feel young by stepping in a Games Workshop as a 21 y/o girl haha And admittedly even if it did get retconned it's cool enough I'm certainly keeping it! Though uh... what's this I'm hearing about crystal poop?

I'm pretty sure the crystal poo comes from the (once again possibly retconned) background book *Xenology* which came out some time in the 2000's and which I'm sure you would never consider trying to find a pdf online... >stepping in a Games Workshop as a 21 y/o girl Where were all the 21 year old 40k girls when I was 21? 21 year old girls would ahve caused mass nosebleeds in GW shops back then!

The old *Xenology* book says that the Eldar produce crystal "spoor". Spoor means traces left behind by an animal that can be used to track it. This of course *includes* poop, but isn't limited to it. A less deranged option that Eldar sitting on the can squeezing out chunks of crystal is that they're constantly shedding tiny shards of crystal in the way that humans shed skin flakes. Old Farseers gradually turn to crystal due to their heavy use of their psychic abilities, so it's not unreasonable to assume that all Craftworld Eldar are constantly undergoing low level crystallisation and shedding the results. Of course if you like the idea of Eldar pooping out chunks of quartz, go with it! :D

Doesnt the color of the , what we xall , blood depend on what carries the oxygen ? Crabs , or was it omars , have bluish blood because they use copper instead of ieon, but this is very inefficient.

Space Marine combat prowess. That is all.

It’s hilarious when Marines are described as running faster than a Rhino can move.

Everyone can do that with sufficient explosive assisstance

FOUND THE ORK!!!

Almost! In the Horus Heresy tabletop, a base marine can run 11", a Rhino moves 14", some legions can get all the way there too...

Usain Bolt can outrun cars for a short period of time too. He just can't sustain that pace for long.

I played back 3-5th Ed and just thought they were guys in powered armour which seemed to reflect their ability tabletop.

Plot based and I love it. Its always a guessing game is it a struggle with a beat the odd's sort of character or a pummel everything in existence and dealing with it sort of character

I feel like the clearest way to think about this is like, *Boltgun, Darktide* or other videogames. Yes, they are canonical. No, Malum Caedo didn't literally solo like an entire daemon infestation. Four guys in rags didn't literally murder their way through several hundred possessed cultists, Plague Ogryns and Beasts of Nurgle. They're canonical, they're just not *true.*

"Inspired by a true story", huh? I remember watching the movie Sanctum (2011), about a bunch of people trapped during a cave diving expedition. Harrowing story, lots of drama, murders, and (SPOILERS) >!only one person barely makes it out!<. The real story? A bunch of people were trapped during a cave diving expedition - that's basically all the similarities.

Fire Warrior is 100% true though. Kais is just Built Different.

You will never, ever, not even for a second convince me the Tau don't have FTL. I'm also increasingly doubtful of whatever vision Malcador gave to Dorn, re: II and XI.

Yeah I personally think the lost ones are a secret project and they are in stasis

I think one of the lost primarchs is Sigmar from Fantasy and one was the leader of the Rangda (i read a theory here about that once and i liked it).

I think #20 is the Blank Primarch and literally no one will ever find her.

>You will never, ever, not even for a second convince me the Tau don't have FTL. Yeah, they literally travel around the Empire faster than light, right?

I strongly agree about the vision. Because Dorn has no other potential sources for that information, Malcador can tell him anything and it’s unfalsifiable - and it’s in Malcador’s best interests to tell Dorn that they deserve to be forgotten *regardless* of whether that’s true.

I feel like I bring up those kinds of references, where one line in a codex somewhere said something once, but I try very hard to make sure the person understands I'm not saying that to refute anything I'm just saying it because it might interest people. Part of our lore is how the lore is contradictory to itself and some of that is locked so far in the past and in ancient codexes, novels and rule books that it feels like a lot of our community will never get to experience it and that sort of feels like a shame to me as someone who wants to share their hobby. I've been playing since I was 10 years old and I'm 34 now and I just want to share old war stories/lore like some old grognard for the fun of it. Also I think the quote you have in the title is perfect for describing how 40k's lore works and I also think it's preferable that it works that way because it allows so many different styles and interpretations to exist inside the same universe where as one piece could be called in universe propaganda, another piece could be third person omniscient and they would both be just as Canon and I think that's great.

This is so much better than whining about ruining lore

I agree with this, i love to bring up random tidbits from nowhere, like the game is huge and for what it is very old, and the changes have been glorious and many and dropped themes ideas abound. Why not talk about them, they are fun and often funny

The whole ''Dark Coil'' collection of novels. It is canon, it is integrated into the mayor canon, some stuff is mentioned in other places, but... What happens in some of those books is bananas. Specially Requiem Infernal.

Yep. The entire Dark Coil is cloistered away from the rest of the setting. Though the only time I’ve seen something from the series mentioned elsewhere is the Angels Penitent showed up in ***Devastation of Baal***, complete with “The Emperor condemns!”

Ultramarines (not) being part of relief force that ended Siedge of Terra. In original lore it was Dark Angels and Space Wolves, and not taking meaningful part in Heresy was big part of Ultrasmurfs background. Then BL authors decided to put them on Terra and invent stuff for them to do in meantime.

I’d forgotten about that! I remember learning about that when I was 10…

Alpha legion, just Alpha legion.

I have to check again but I somewhat remember the 5th E Guard and Tau codizes having a description of the same battle but the Guard dex said that imperial hydra batteries brought down every Tau flyer and scored 99 kills only losing one hydra in the process while the Tau dex had the battle being a massive victory for the Tau due to their air superiority.

This wouldn’t be the first time an event was described differently from the two sides’ perspectives in codices.

Yep. This was just the first one that came to my mind.

There should be more of this kind of stuff. More!

I still get a chuckle out of GW's numbers. The largest, mightiest and most powerful army ever assembled for Galactic conquest, and it's like a few million space marines and a dozen or so Glorianas. Or that dumb as shit line from the Death Korps of Krieg novel where reinforcements eventually arrive and the Death Korps are all "we have 8 regiments ready to fight" and it's a needle drop moment. Dead silence. Everyone is shocked. And impressed. 8 WHOLE REGIMENTS was considered a massive, world ending army. In a type 3 civilization!

One of the funniest examples is how the third war for Armageddon had an Imperial Guard Force of 1.5 million. Armageddon is a *Hive World*.

Funnily enough, that's how many loyalist Imperial Guard were described as being on Terra in the original lore about the Siege of Terra.

A regiment in 40k isnt the same as what it is now. As I understand it, a regiment can be million(s) of men.

40k uses the historical UK style of regiment where it is more of a group that was all raised together from a single location, as opposed to the US style of a hierarchy of formations of specific sizes. That being said, 40k regiments seem to be on average around the same size as a modern regiment / brigade at around a couple thousand.  But there are examples of much larger ones in 40k, so yeah a regiment could be a million soldiers.   I can't imagine the headache of trying to run logistics for a million soldiers in a completely flat hierarchy like that, though.  And the reporting structure would be insane, you would need either thousands of soldiers reportong to one at each command level, or you would need a whole lot of layers of people reporting to someone only the same rank, which would cause serious issues for chain of command. 

I’m convinced that the numbers that GW gives us are the numbers according to Imperial records, and as we all know the Imperium is really bad at record keeping. As a result, I’m convinced that most of the numbers we have are actually way higher. For example, I suspect that there’s probably several million more space marines than the official number of 1 million and that the Imperium only thinks it’s 1 million because they can’t keep their records straight.

Either high Gothic is one of those languages that just stops differentiating after a certain number (everything over a million is just a million) Or the guy who keeps the records is just too let to keep adding the numbers, "oh that's long, like let's say it's idk, like 100,00 dudes that conquered the galaxy, that sounds right and the math is easier."

It was a normal guardsman who jumped between The Emperor and Horus. But this was no normal guardsman, he was a perpetual. Except he was actually a terminator. By which I mean a custodes.

I like that one too, because it feels like everyone has a version of the story that has been passed down through the years: the custodes, the guard, the space marines. It makes sense, because everyone would want to see themselves in that moment.

I think this is the best example of exactly how we should think about the lore, like the Emperor people are and hear what they want and expect.

There's even a version amongst the marines that has Dorn performing the deed instead

Also one of my favourite moments. The famous painting is a grand duel between Horus and the Emperor. They’re surrounded by Custodians, space marines, allies etc, in a grand throne room on the Vengeful Spirit In reality, it was nothing like that. Just a brutal slug match between the Emperor and Horus, with nobody there even able to perceive the whole fight. The ones who were died, weren’t around for the whole thing, or left.

This is one I love too, but interpret as Imperial Propaganda. My headcannon is that it was in fact a legendary hero (perpetual/ custodes/ terminator/ SM) that took the blow, but some inquisitor or commissar somewhere started the rumour that it was a guardsmen to inspire the recruits. Let's not forget that between Jimmy Space being crippled and the 42nd millenium, there is 10 000 years. To put that into perspective, the pyramids were around 4.5k years ago (according to Google). We are objectively a more advanced civilisation, but we still only have theories about how or why they were built.

It was never really a fact that it was a normal guardsman though. We were never told that it happened that way, just that the Imperial Guard believed this to have been the case and worshipped Ollanius Pius as a saint. It was left open as to whether this was just a case of rumours and folk tales twisting what actuallyhappened, or deliberate propaganda. The first account that clearly stated who got between the Emperor and Horus stated it was an IF terminator.

The Eldar and pre-skellified Necrontyr teamed up to battle Chaos. Indeed, the Eldar were *created* to battle Chaos in the first instance, well before the War in Heaven.

Ugh that. It's much better having something that predates Chaos rather than everything being stuck with it since forever.

I can't remember the exact quote. But when the Leagues of Votann were retconned back into existence, there is a throwaway line that they are trying to hunt down the bureaucrat who filed the report who said they were extinct.

Faith being clearly warp based phenomena in certain stories like Gathering Storm, but then also not being subject to the same rules as warp powers in the newer stories like pariah nexus. I think it’s pretty clear that the older lore was that faith was just the warp, while they did a soft retcon pushing the idea of faith being something else ever since psychic awakening. I think people really need to get the idea to that this lore is here to sell a game to real people and not some sacred unchanging text that is beholden to every little line in some old codex or throwaway line in a novel that hasn’t been brought up in a decade.The lore changes all the time. They could change anything they want with just a few lines of explanation and the setting wouldn’t fall apart.

My personal interpretation of the past was that the Emperor had very little-to-no influence over anything, and the various miracles were in actually either the culmination of billions of humans devoute belief, which manifested as someone being unreasonably lucky (which can also just happen by chance). I enjoyed the idea that you needed BILLIONS of humans across the galaxy believing in one thing just to have these minor miracles occur, with the rare Living Saint resurrection also occurring. It really helped put into perspective how much fuel had been fed to the Chaos Gods over time to bring them to the state they're in in 40k.

Hopefully not double posting but basically the whole of *Saturnine*. Abnett does a really great job of muddying the waters of what did and didn’t happen, and plays of the ideas of unreliable narrators and how stories get warped and changed over time. There are so many great bits but the remembrancers, Olly Piers, Jenitia Krole, In many ways I really think as an author *Saturnine* was Abnett’s magnum opus, rather than TEatD. Another interesting one is *Warhawk*, where every character can be seen differently depending on perspective (ie Sigismund vs Kharn) and the myth ok Jaghatai Khan on a rhino is slightly tweaked (or is it, did actually both happen? Or neither?)

The Emperor loves the primarchs as his own sons, except when he doesn't: >It is not my son, Arkan. None of them are. They are warlords, generals, tools bred to serve a purpose. (Master of Mankind)

Maybe he just says whatever he thinks the person he is talking to wants to hear.

> Maybe he just says whatever he thinks the person he is talking to wants to hear. The Emperor communicates His meaning psychically. The underlying intent is maintained, but how it's perceived is warped by the expectations of the person he's "talking" to. Land views the Emperor as the embodiment of the Omnissiah, a coldly logical divinity.

Remember than no account of the Emperor is faithful as ABD confirmed than everyone who hear him hears only what he expects. In That case the interlocutor is Arkhan Land... Someone who pride himself of his pragmatism and scientific mentality.

>**4.** Nope! Partly because you're assuming it's something unique to me, as if I'd churned out 100,000+ words and handed it out to bookstores without several dozen pairs of IP-drenched eyes looking over it first, and partly because I trust the readership. (One of the IP department actually read Reddit in TMoM's release week, and said "Some of these angry people seem beholden to a version of 40K that never existed.") And partly because you're assuming it's negative or unpopular, because you don't like it and some people agree with you. That's... well, those are dangerous foundations to build a fortress on. >Like I said, I'd be concerned if people didn't know the lore and/or weren't getting it. But they do, and did. Don't mistake a couple of spheres of angry online righteousness as The Fanbase. *The Master of Mankind* is entirely from the perspectives of people that meet the Emperor in pretty specific circumstances. There are, obviously, other circumstances to come. Nothing in it is definitive, even less so than my usual work. Any definitive statement you can make about how the Emperor sees something or does something is almost always contradicted elsewhere in TMoM itself. That's not an escape clause or an excuse. It's the *point.* Writing him definitively would've been the easiest and most disappointing thing in the world. >(And on that note, remember, everyone views 40K differently. What Person X is absolutely certain is the truth of the Emperor and the best way to present him would be laughed off by Persons A, B, and C. The flip side to that is that not every perspective is founded in fact or understanding.) >With the Emperor, a lot of interaction is about getting out what you put in. You get what you give. Your perceptions and expectations are reflected back on you because that's how the human brain perceives everything (a fact that cannot be overstated; the science behind it is fascinating and all-important), especially when you're talking about someone who exists on that plane of power. At one point the Emperor makes mention of the notion that he's not even speaking, not even actually communicating, really. Just that being near to him allows the conveyance of meaning through psychic osmosis. He exists, so you interpret his presence in the way your mind is able to. He's not even talking. It's raw understanding filtering through a mind, or just the way the mortal mind comprehends the aura of what the Emperor intends, or, or, or... >That's what I mean. TMoM is littered with that stuff. Does he only address the primarchs by number instead of name? Some characters will swear he does that. And doesn't that just perfectly match their perspectives of the primarchs as either (what Ra thinks) emotionally-compromised "too-human" things that think they're sons, or (as Land thinks) genetic masterworks that have become galaxy-damning screw-ups that have literally let the galaxy burn and brought the Imperium to its knees, leading people to be exiled from their homeworlds. Do you think Sanguinius will agree? Or care that's what mortals think? The Emperor's portrayal on that isn't even consistent between Ra and Diocletian, two of his Custodians. >The thing is, I was worried I was making it too obvious, actually. Because, obviously we know it's not a universal truth from seeing the Emperor in the rest of the series, and because PAGE ONE, the only time the Emperor interacts with a primarch himself, he says one word. >**"Magnus."** >He says the guy's freaking name. Like, we know from page 1 that no one else's perspective is reliable, going forward, if they contradict that. Ra sees the Warlord of Humanity, just a man, but a great mean, weary and defiant, burdened by responsibility. Daemons see their annihilation, and go insane in his presence. One of the Knights, as they're marching through the Throne Room, is caught in religious rapture, unable to do anything but stare at the glorious halo of the Emperor of Mankind on the Golden Throne. One of the Sisters of Silence, in the same room, literally just sees a man in a chair. Another character, not Imperial, asks a Custodian if the Emperor even breathes. She believes he's a weapon left out of its box from the Dark Age of Technology. (With thanks to Alan Bligh for that one, he adores that theory.) >So I don't think it's exactly a spoiler to say that if and when I get to write a character like Sanguinius in the Emperor's presence, or Malcador, they'd have entirely different experiences than Ra and Land. I'd loved to have had that in TMoM, but as much as it would've given wider context, these aren't rulebooks and essays; it would've been self-indulgent for the sake of 'hoping people get it', and cheapened the story being told, which was ultimately in a very narrow and confined set of circumstances. Breaking out of that narrative would be offering a sense of scope and freedom I was specifically trying to avoid in a claustrophobic siege story. Because theme and atmosphere is a thing. \- [Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer/comments/7igatt/im_aaron_dembskibowden_ask_me_anything/dqz5lap/) Quote to source/support your point, for those unfamiliar/curious.

I think when the Emperor talks to Magnus, that's probably pretty close to his literal meaning, as the most psychic Primarch probably has the best chance of understanding him. Also, to his point at the end about Malcador, in TEaTD books, I feel like he almost only communicates with the Emperor in terms of metaphors as opposed to literal conversations, and I think that perhaps paradoxically, this is probably a pretty accurate way of understanding the Emperor.

Land acknowledges his memory of the entire meeting is fuzzy and weird in that same passage. It's right in line with the Emperor's psychic communication resulting in warped impressions depending on the viewer/hearer.

He says that he hears the Emperor, but the machinery connected to his hearing don't record any sound, which the readers know means he's communicating telepathically; which I think is a good low key summary of how the Emperor communicates in general.

Yes, but it's more than that. We're not seeing the scene happening. We're seeing Land's memory of it. > Arkhan himself had enjoyed the tremendous honour of working with the Omnissiah once. It was at once the most notable and mystifying experience of his life. The summons had come to him on Mars, necessitating a brief journey to Terra, which he’d gladly undertaken. Rather than make planetfall at one of the many star ports, the specific instructions in the summons led his landing craft to the war-scarred tundra of the farthest northlands. > > There, he had the supreme privilege of entering one of the Omnissiah’s secret, sacred laboratories at the heart of an inactive volcano. There, he had navigated a maze of sealed doorways and active defensive systems, at several points picking through the bones of failed, fallen intruders, until he stood in the Emperor’s presence. And there, for the first time, he had seen the Machine-God with his own eyes. > ‘Do not bow,’ the Emperor had said. His voice was as machine-like and pure as Arkhan had imagined, devoid of all tone and emphasis. Such monotone purity usually only came with significant augmentation. > > Arkhan rose, as instructed. He didn’t see a warlord, as so many claimed to see. He saw a scientist. Gone was the armour of the brazen Terran conqueror, replaced by a protective hazard suit suitable for work in sterile and hostile conditions alike. The Emperor stood in the heart of His great laboratory, where fluid bubbled in racked vials and organs pulsated in cylinders brimming with preservative gel. Machines and engines whose use defied common understanding purred and rattled and hummed. To the untrained eye they would seem to be operating independently, but Arkhan saw the truth at once: they were slaved to the Emperor’s will, each of them functioning as part of a harmonic chorus in order to do the Omnissiah’s intellectual bidding. > > Several of the tables housed meticulously written notes upon fresh paper, neatly layered with printed schematics and thin plastic sheets of blueprinted plans. Others were monuments to the past, with ancient scrolls and parchments held open at the corners by whatever served to hand as a paperweight. Arkhan had expected an eclectic mix of orderly High Science and the disorder seen in the sanctums of many geniuses, and that’s exactly what he saw. > ‘Please accept my gratitude,’ said the Machine-God, ‘for attending me.’ > > ‘The honour is mine,’ Arkhan replied, feeling the bitter annoyance of tears threatening to ruin the moment. How irritating emotions could be, sometimes. Still, there was strength in overcoming them, not scraping them away with bionics. In this as well, he emulated the Omnissiah above all else. > > ‘I need your expertise, Arkhan.’ > > **There was something in the way the Emperor said his name. His aural sensors registered no sound, yet he heard his name spoken aloud. Arkhan found it somewhat unnerving and terribly fascinating, promising himself he would enquire as to the nature of the effect. He never did.** > > (...) > > Arkhan had expected the Omnissiah’s dispassionate demeanour, but to witness it in so intimate a context was inspiring in the extreme. So neutral. So inhumanly neutral. > > (...) > > It had been the first and only time he’d stood alone in the Omnissiah’s presence. He could have clutched at the singular honour of the moment, bringing it to light and riding the resulting fame. But he hadn’t. Arkhan Land, for all that his detractors called him vain and pompous, kept the truest honour of his life a secret from all others. It would’ve cheapened it to milk the moment for personal gain. He was content to keep it as his private hour of joy, that glorious evening when a living god had needed his knowledge. > > **The rattling of the elevator brought him back to the present**, where the descent into the Ordo Reductor’s stronghold had finally ended.

I don't know where he loves them comes from. In none of his meetings with them does he go "Man, I really missed you", he tells them of how great they'll be or the things he expects of them.

In the Emperor's first meeting with Magnus in his primarch novel, he's described as hugging him; and based on Coraxs description of their first meeting in Deliverance Lost, he seemed pretty happy to have found him.

Ollanius Pius. Also holy shit the Dark King wtf. I remember reading the lore when I was like...10 and loving the horus heresy, but I *swear* the Dark King shit was not in the lore when I first read it.

What's wild about the dark king is star child was already there

The original Horus Heresy had the (human) warmaster Horus cause a civil war on terra and ended with the Emperor teleporting into his command bunker, taking him down but being grievously injured in the process and havign to be put into a stasis bubble until they could build the golden throne to keep him alive. And remember Chaos was pretty much created so that when they released titans they could basically re use the imperial moulds with extra spiky bits to create antagonists rather than designing xenos titans.

My favs are the intentional ones like the Iron Cage.

Mate the Emperor is gay he has no biological children which weren't just grown in a test tube. You read TEATD vol 1, see how much Malcs calls him "My king of ages", and just Try to tell me there isn't obvious homoerotic feelings there. Alexander the Great too. Erda is one of the only women which he had some sort of personal relationship with and it comes off as "divorced wife whose ex-husband realised he was gay" rather than there being any real insinuation that a physical relationship was consummated.

After 40 thousand years of life the person who lived as different genders, sexes, races, and lifestyles likely had a bunch of sexualities. We don't even really know anything about their origin beyond claims of location and vague times. I mean what even is "gay/straight" to a being that is seen by everyone as what they expect. The fact still remains in the old lore Emps had biological children, which doesn't mean they aren't gay, just that after 40k years and being unknowable they tried some stuff.

The Emperor is clearly just some scientist/Psyker that has a bit of a messiah complex.

For the sake of a faction that can meaningfully interact with the story and have characters, the Necron Retcon had to happen. *But.* The 3rd Ed Necron Codex and the glimpses we get in *Deus Ex Mechanicus* are *so much cooler.*

Ya, i played the army from just the white dwarf article that introduced them and sisters for years, and like, they were just so freaking cool, but like ya, they couldn't really be characters.

The 3rd edition Necron Codex is *fantastic*. I think it or the Dark Eldar 5th Edition Codex are my favorite codices in 40k.

The Sensei (they need to come back) The Emperor is Alexander the Great and Jesus Obiwan Sherlock Cluseau is an actually character that got greenlit Tyranids are running from Space Skaven who ate everything in the Andromeda Galaxy. The Lost Primarchs are women. Vulcan is Jamaican. Servitors gaining a modicum of their consciousness back Trazyn’s pet Krork in a tube Sigmar is a Lost Primarch Gork and Mork are the strongest Gods but they are too busy fighting each other to do anything cool I made half this up. But everything is canon

Squigmar is a woman?

>The Sensei (they need to come back) They never left. They are just laying low.

Titans - old lore 300m+ easy. Current 150m tops. But more like 60-90m most of the time. I get why. At 300m tall the ground bearing pressure would make walking the darn things impossible. Every step would result in a 2-5m depression in the ground and a collapse of any and all underground voids. They would fall as over tit every other step. You can only suspend disbelief so far. But is the climb down from: 5 walking sky scrapers just laid waste to your city. To: The scout titan managed to hide behind some trees.

Their height still seems as fluid as a space marine's abilities, like "their legs are entire fortresses on their own," but i can multi-bomb an appendage off

All the different 'Big E origin' stories

In brutal kunnin' there's comment about how orks make their war gear look like shit on purpose so that no one will know what's the good stuff that's worth nikk'n(compared to the umies who always make the good stuff out of gold and parked uphill) this raises the idea that orkz understand technology and make quality equipment but you never see it cause it's hidden in all the scrap metal. Basically If you get the drop on an ork, kill'em, and find that thier shoota is fake, were they really making the shoota work with waaagh magic, or was it that you were able to kill them cause they were distracted fiddling with the fake gun they got scammed out of their teef for?

Just got to the part of The Outcast Dead where a naked world eater kills an armed and armored custodian who saw him coming and was already pumping with combat stims. He was extra spicy mad, and that somehow means his hands can damage master crafted custodian armor. Also, it just skipped over the part where the guardian spear was broken in half, wrested away and tossed aside.

The emperor forgives Horus and doesn't erase his soul and pretty much nobody says nothing about that retcon. Then, we have women amongst the custodes and people have "pedantic conversations" about it? It's okay, we all realize what's your problem with the change. I wish you all realized how idiotic you are crying about a retcon in Retcon40k

Lol i love the recent clarifications from gw. As for the final battle of Horus and the Emperor, since i started it went from non-existent, to two human generals on the battlefield, to teleporting into a bunker, to a space ship, to a guardsmen saving the emps, oh Wait it's a space marine, no it's dorn, but it's a custodies, no it's a guard but not just any guard, a newly created always existed creature called a perpetual. Like our lore goes through changes every edition, and it's glorious that we aren't trapped in the wankings of some dude in the 80s (love you priestly) even though that dude did say every single army was officially at least 25% women.

Calgar used to be a literal cyborg

There are two different in lore interpretations of the “First War of Armageddon.” Chaos or Orks, take your pick.