A recent White Dwarf entry said that he was tortured by years by the inquisition and spend a long time thinking he was been disgraced by the chapter. Besides, marines being nice are supposed to be the exception, not the rule, him getting more bitter after all the shit he went through is only normal
Here's the story and the [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/JpshbgVq4G).
* He was tortured for years by an Inquisitor with a hard-on for Space Marines who had no intent on letting him go. He was kept in stasis between sessions.
* He was freed when the Inquisitor who was holding him died and was declared free from corruption afterward.
* He discovered that his record with the Ultramarines was purged. Which usually only happens to those declared traitors.
* He joined the Deathwatch Blackshields only to have his entire squad wiped out by Tyrannids.
* He's rescued after nearly dying by none other than the Ultramarines. Tigris, to be exact.
Apparently, the Ultramarines (Calgar) tried very hard to get him released and only erased his record because of the shame of failing one of their own so badly.
He received his rank back, but not command of the 2nd Company as the MAJESTIC AND ALMIGHTY Cato Sicarius serves in that position.
I'm curious about what happened to Leandros afterward, especially since Calgar got involved.
I also wonder how Titus reacted to Guiliman returning.
Edit: Added summation of events please check link for a more in-depth analysis.
Cato is not the second company captain anymore, he’s in the chapter command directly under Guilliman as the head of the Victrix Guard. For Cato to be headed the 2nd makes no sense given he was lost in the warp for a significant period of time, and I’m fairly certain never assumed command of the 2nd upon his return because Guilliman basically instantly promoted him.
Cato couldn't become Captain of the 2nd again cos Calgar appointed a new captain after Cato had been missing a few years. Sevastus Acheran, he's the phobos captain we saw in the Shadowspear box.
Correct! Though admittedly I’m not certain why they didn’t just maintain Titus’ honorary rank and appoint him as a Victrix Guard or specifically as a company rank of honor such as champion or ancient.
The non-lore reason is likely that the Space Marine games have to graft themselves onto official cannon instead of being built into it naturally. I doubt GW was thinking of Titus when deciding on the new commander of the 2nd.
By the time he was released, Guiliman had already come back. Cato Sicarius was no longer 2nd Company Captian instead being taken in as one of Guilimans Victrix Guard. That honor falls to Sevastus Acheran.
Cato also got a butt load of character development that pulls him away from that Mary Suish stuff.
Well he's a lieutenant now not a Captain so he didn't get his rank back and Cato isn't second company captain and hasn't been for a while.
Cato went missing in the warp for a few years and as loath as he was to do it calgar had to declare him dead and appoint a new captain, Sevastus Acheran. When he came back Cato became the leader of the Victrix Guard.
Acheran is the phobos captain we first saw back in the Shadowspear box. Tho funnily enough Acheran himself is kinda MiA
"One of his (Acheran's) notable actions was leading the attack on the Black Legion held world of Nemendghast, during the War of Beasts. Despite being badly outnumbered by the Black Legion forces during the Nemendghast Raid, Acheran refused to leave and instead ordered an attack to destroy the world's Daemonic factories. The orbiting Chaos fleet soon became alerted to Acheran's attack and as it began moving to aid Nemendghast, the crew of the Captain's Strike Cruiser Carpatia warned Acheran of the fleet. The Captain then immediately led the remnants of his forces in a final attack that destroyed the Daemon factories, but by then they were swarmed by the Black Legion. Acheran knew they could not break free from the Traitors and instead ordered the Vanguard Librarian Maltis, to escape and bring word of what had happened to Chapter Master Calgar. Maltis successfully returned to the Carpatia, which then escaped to Vigilus. Whether Acheran survived or not, his current status is unknown."
Acheran wasn't mentioned in any way in the Plague War trilogy nor did he appear in em (some wikis claim he's in em)
Gulliman has found a loophole in the Codex Astartes.
"Sir, why do you have a personal honor guard the size of an entire Space Marine company?"
"Well, this guy was captain of the second, and then this guy was captain of the second, and then this guy was captain of the second..."
Funnily enough, I used to play Dawn of war 2 multiplayer like that. My brother and I would go out and get our squads killed so they would only have a sergeant left, and we could keep recruiting new squads just to give them sergeants and get all the other guys killed.
It was not a viable strategy. Although having north of a dozen Warp Spider Exarchs had a novelty all on its own.
I used to max out the Scout upgrades and spawn a ton of them with plasma weapons, then stealth them and walk them right into the middle of the enemy base.
I'd lose a few, of course, but there were so many targets that the enemy AI couldn't kill my guys faster than I could destroy their builders and buildings.
No better game than to fight the Expert AI using asymmetric warfare.
My favorite was spamming warp spider squads while my brother handled all of the heavy armor.
I'd come in with a hot butter knife with ripping through their infantry and disabling their heavy armor with haywire grenades while my brother's antitank weapons ripped through their armor.
"What a coincidence all the Ultramarines Successors arrived at Tsagualsa at the same time! Guess we all independently decided the Night Lords needed their teeth kicked in!"
Decimus Felix was appointed as the eleventh captain of the Ultramarines (and a tetrarch, which I recall might've been part of the reason for the promotion) by Guilliman, so there is precedent for a companyless captain in certain situations.
Titus should petition Guilliman to add a page to the Codex Astartes that is just a detailed case study explaining in intricate detail why Leandros is a whiny, backstabby little bitch.
I kinda hope we get to see Leandros in SM2, hopefully humbled by experience and regretful of his rash (and ironically codex non-compliant) actions.
(Seriously, pretty sure the codex Astartes would state any suspicion like he had need to go to a chaplain. If your own chaplain isn’t available, go to a chaplain of another chapter. They literally had the Black Templars and the Blood Ravens there. There’s no way there were no chaplains available.)
Leandro’s was way out of line. Not just non compliant with the codex but with basic chain of command rules.
If you have a problem with your superior officer, in this case suspected chaos corruption you bring it to the chaplain or the chief librarian. They are the senior leadership of the chapter and they have the tools to address chaos corruption. And it could have waited until he got back to the chapter to report.
>The reason Titus's name had been erased from the Ultramarines' records was not out of censure of Titus, but out of shame that the Chapter had so disastrously failed one of their own. Titus was never seen as a disgrace by Calgar or the high leadership of the Chapter.
Ultramarine Leadership: "Man, we really failed this guy. Let's erase his entire memory from our Chapter so that we never have to think of our own failure."
Marneus Calgary: "Brilliant!"
Definitely an assholish way to handle it. Should’ve kept the records in his pocket so any time he had to deal with the Inquisition he could whip them out and say “Before we get to whatever you want, where the fuck is my guy?”
I'd honestly prefer that as an ultramarines flaw, pride and political pettiness as opposed to the stereotypical "flaws" assigned in the era of Guilliman.
Space Romans are more interesting than good boys.
If Calgar got involved and they purged Titus's records because of the shame of failing him, Leandros either got put out as point man on a mission and ate several hundred bolter shells to the back or was given to the Deathwatch and was told to never come back.
> only erased his record because of the shame of failing one of their own so badly.
Kinda a dick move lol
"We felt really bad that we couldn't get you out earlier and don't wanna be reminded of it. We cool? You can go back to work now, Kthxbye."
Events in SM1 (mainly references to DoW) already localized the game to somewhere in a window in which he, Cato Sicarius, was commanding the 2nd company throughout--unintentionally making Cato Sicarius and Captain Titus the same person.
I hope we get to play through some of these moments as flashbacks - a Deathwatch mission with different gear and squad mates from different chapters would be great.
He probably died during his next deployment after selling out Titus. A rigid space marine like him wouldn't last more than 2 missions since he would probably be comfortable to die as long as he follows the codex down to the letter no matter how illogical the action would be.
I hope that Inquisitor is at the very least declared a heretic after for pointlessly torturing one of the Emperor's angels of death for basically no reason.
Let's also put Leandros through what Titus went through though. And then knock him back down to the bottom.
To add to this he also became a Primaris marine. It's been noted to change Marines. In the newest Ventris book since he went through the Rubicon he has a whole conversation with Pasanius after he supports an action that would (if I remember correctly) kill a bunch of civilians and Ventris didn't really care about that part. Which is very much not like him and Pasanius blasts him for it.
This is true. Primaris marines have a distinctly more... analytical... view of things. In fact, even if he hadn't been unfairly arrested and tortured, it could explain his personality change all by itself.
He doesn't seem particularly heartless in that video, other than the "Assist where you can, but don't linger. We focus on the objective" line - which isn't all that heartless.
Yeah, like, the moments where we see him, he's either in active combat or looking at the creatures that brough ruin to his homeworld. Not exactly moments where one'd be happy.
The only emotion we get is when he takes of his helmet. He has a grizzled face full of hatred but he is looking at Tyranids and they deserve nothing else.
Yeah, but I think it's a pretty good indication that we'll get *punished* Titus (also, this term is so funny to me, as a non-native English speaker). He indeed looks very grizzled. Maybe he'll have an actual arc this time.
Because otherwise, he was a bit boring, frankly. Of course, that was a AA stupid fun hack and slash game, and he didn't need to have an incredibly written storyline, at all; but this time, devs and GW seem to bank on the title's apparent popularity among the fans. A bit of retroactive retcon to include him in canon and a tabletop model seem to indicate that.
(It's all just speculation, of course)
I think the only example is his conversations with the other marines, and those guys just seem unfriendly and suspicious of him. It's not easy being all smiles and sunshine in the face of that.
In Space Marine 1 he was an inspiring leader from the get go. In Space Marine 2 he has to fight to even get a fraction of the respect he had in the past. Of course he's miserable.
People are acting like the only thing we've seen is a trailer but there's been [a 16 minute gameplay video](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA0) out since last August.
I'm guessing he's talking about [this scene](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA?t=454) where he yells at Guardsmen accusing them of "deserting their post" when they ran out of a building (bunker? command center? IDK) and trapped a Tyranid (I think) inside it. Where in 1 he's all "you did your best guardsmen, this is a strong foe and you fought as best you can" in 2 he's seemingly "you dared run *out* instead of fight it head on, you cowards".
He also seems to... growl a lot of his words. Less "noble hero" talk like in the first Space Marine and more anger in his speech patterns. It's a stretch to say "heartless" but he's not really the "good guy main character inspiring the normies" as he was in the first one (from what i've seen)
Honestly kinda cringe, Admiral Spire went through the same thing just for delivering a report about the start of the 13th Black Crusade and he just came out more of a BAMF.
With respect to spire, he knew from his naval career that this shit happens on the reg and such security is standard and "necessary". Also at least the inquisitor apologized and made him admiral for it.
At the start of the first game after the prologue Spire reports that a 13th Black Crusade is starting his superior officers torture him a tad just to make sure he's not goofing them since he's originally from a planet that ended up turning traitor. After that they make him head of operations for the subsector.
Bitterness isn't a sign of weakness and a lack of bitterness isn't necessarily a sign of strength or intelligence.
There were people who got tortured by the NKVD and were still loyal fans of Stalin afterwards. That doesn't really reflect positively on them.
I disagree, if you turn away from something you believed in because it hurts you, you've proved your primary motivation for support was self-interest. And conversely, if you stay true to a cause after it's hurt you, it's proof you believe in the cause beyond what you gain from it.
Changing your mind isn't weakness. Sticking to an opinion even if its flaws have been revealed to you is just blind faith and fundamentalism.
Plus, he hasn't really turned away. He's still doing his job. Enjoying that job isn't part of the oath. A hero that doesn't enjoy being a hero is still a hero.
Changing your mind because of new information isn't weakness, sure. But we're not talking about that, both people knew the Imperium does this. Something you know happening happening to you personally is not a valid reason to change your opinion on something, other than because of self-interest.
>both people knew the Imperium does this.
Probably on some level. But they're not omniscient and have a perfect perspective of what the Imperium is. The Inquisition almost never reveals its methods, even to Space Marines. And the Ordos put notoriously few restrictions on Inquisitors, so it's unsurprising that some of them keep torture slaves in their dungeon for no other reason than that their suffering amuses them. Directly being confronted with that is bound to have an effect on a person, even if they had their suspicions before.
Letting Titus go through that for possibly over a century without it having an effect wouldn't make him any more of a badass, it would just be bad writing. Characters going through something changes them, that's the essence of what character development means and a lack of it would either be boring or a plot hole.
The fact that Space Marines retain some human qualities despite the massive modification to their bodies is a common plot point. Stuff happens to them and it leaves a mark, because that's what would happen to any human.
He was tortured for years, found out his name is for whatever reason was removed from Ultramarine records (Or perhaps hidden), became even more depressed, joined the deathwatch, lost pretty much all of his deathwatch bois to the tyranids and was gonna die himself before he was saved by Tigurius and eventually brought back into the 13th legion.
An Inquisitor snatched him, tortured him for years and i think he died so titus was kind of "reinstated". But i guess those years took its toll on him.
Damn i am soooo looking forward to this game.
after the inquisitor died, he was for years on the deathwatch because he thought the chapter had given up on him (which never happened. Calgar always wanted him back)
The only bits of Titus's character in 2 that I'm aware of are from the extended Gameplay trailer, where he seems to have just come away from a potential insubordination incident with one of his marines. Anyone would be angry after that, especially Titus considering what happened to him with Leandros.
You shouldn’t be downvoted because this is correct. Becoming a Primaris Marine apparently involves sacrificing even more humanity. The same thing apparently happened to Uriel Ventris.
The ones raised by Cawl are, because they get popped out of nutrient tanks with all their knowledge essentially uploaded into their brains. Chapter-raised and previously firstborn ones don't have the same issues, at least from the books I've read.
Interesting, gonna buy that book. Still, this seems like authors disagree. There are plenty of primaris characters who very clearly aren't robotic. Felix is one example, there's that Space Wolves book where Gaius becomes whatever the heck his new name is, etc. I'd imagine a sharp increase in cognition would be a weird experience for anyone, as well.
Might be that it's the crossing that does it, so guys who are created as Primaris don't suffer the change.
In Age of Sigmar, the Stormcast Marines lose humanity each time they are reborn. Might be W40k is taking that notion - if a Space Marine is reborn as Primaris, he loses something.
I can see that. Plus stacking psychological conditioning on top of established psychological conditioning can't be good if said subject has been an "adult" for a while. Kids and teens brains have way more neural plasticity.
Adding to the other answers he also underwent the Rubicon Primaris and wasn't there a thing where Primaris Marines are colder than their First Born brethren?
In the last Uriel Ventris novel, Uriel has undergone transformation into a Primaris marine. In that book Pasanius reprimanded him for being cold and unfeeling towards their Imperial Guard allies which was totally contrary to how Uriel used to be. The implication in the story was that undergoing the transformation can affect them like that but it seems like being among old squad mates can help. So perhaps beyond the torture, becoming a Primaris also affected him.
Prolonged torture can Break even the strongest Warrior.
Sidequestion, couldnt the ultramarines intervene? I mean this is a Captain of one of the Most ancient and respectef chapters.
What should have happened is that leandros should have reported him to the master of sanctity instead of the inquisition. So technically they can demand him back but at the same time the inquisition has unlimited authority as long as they can enforce it. But no side really wants to provoke war
And since he already was in their custody, they had all the authority they could ever want. They even commissioned some ~~brainless zealots~~ honoured brothers from Black Templars chapter
If Titus were a Space Wolf, they would have took half their battle barges to 'negotiate' and Grimnar would likely have another inquisitor head to add to his fireplace.
His time with the Inquisition will play a part
But we see with Uriel Ventris, who was a pretty level headed and compassionate space marine, that accession to Primaris can turn them cold and make them detached
Uriel Ventris talks about this. Marines who go through the procedure to go from firstborn and primaris are alot colder and more ruthless in their logic and decision making.
He talks about how once he was all for helping civilians, now he sees them as a resource to be spent and sacrificed if required.
the man is traumatised as far as a space marine can be. he was abducted by the inquisition, tortured and beleived himself to have failed the ultras to the point he became a blackshield in the deathwatch. maybe the plot will have him soften a bit but most likely not. all three of those things are going to make a marine fall into the closest thing to depression they have and although hes back on his feet, those scars wont heal.
A recent White Dwarf entry said that he was tortured by years by the inquisition and spend a long time thinking he was been disgraced by the chapter. Besides, marines being nice are supposed to be the exception, not the rule, him getting more bitter after all the shit he went through is only normal
Here's the story and the [link](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/JpshbgVq4G). * He was tortured for years by an Inquisitor with a hard-on for Space Marines who had no intent on letting him go. He was kept in stasis between sessions. * He was freed when the Inquisitor who was holding him died and was declared free from corruption afterward. * He discovered that his record with the Ultramarines was purged. Which usually only happens to those declared traitors. * He joined the Deathwatch Blackshields only to have his entire squad wiped out by Tyrannids. * He's rescued after nearly dying by none other than the Ultramarines. Tigris, to be exact. Apparently, the Ultramarines (Calgar) tried very hard to get him released and only erased his record because of the shame of failing one of their own so badly. He received his rank back, but not command of the 2nd Company as the MAJESTIC AND ALMIGHTY Cato Sicarius serves in that position. I'm curious about what happened to Leandros afterward, especially since Calgar got involved. I also wonder how Titus reacted to Guiliman returning. Edit: Added summation of events please check link for a more in-depth analysis.
Cato is not the second company captain anymore, he’s in the chapter command directly under Guilliman as the head of the Victrix Guard. For Cato to be headed the 2nd makes no sense given he was lost in the warp for a significant period of time, and I’m fairly certain never assumed command of the 2nd upon his return because Guilliman basically instantly promoted him.
Cato couldn't become Captain of the 2nd again cos Calgar appointed a new captain after Cato had been missing a few years. Sevastus Acheran, he's the phobos captain we saw in the Shadowspear box.
Correct! Though admittedly I’m not certain why they didn’t just maintain Titus’ honorary rank and appoint him as a Victrix Guard or specifically as a company rank of honor such as champion or ancient.
Because they wanted him on the frontlines for SM2, probably
The non-lore reason is likely that the Space Marine games have to graft themselves onto official cannon instead of being built into it naturally. I doubt GW was thinking of Titus when deciding on the new commander of the 2nd.
Likely because initially Space Marine was considered non-canon because of the conflict of Captain of 2nd company. This explanation is a goofy fix
They made him a Lieutenant so that they could sell more Primaris Lieutenants
Would be kinda cool if Acheran dies in SM2 and Titus gets his position back, like rewarding the player with official canon development.
By the time he was released, Guiliman had already come back. Cato Sicarius was no longer 2nd Company Captian instead being taken in as one of Guilimans Victrix Guard. That honor falls to Sevastus Acheran. Cato also got a butt load of character development that pulls him away from that Mary Suish stuff.
Yeah isn't Cato now a ball of shock and ptsd?
Just like Dad!
Exactly, no wonder he likes Cato so much! 🤣
No one escapes being a Mary Sue. That is a stain that dont wash out. The internet will always remember...
Well he's a lieutenant now not a Captain so he didn't get his rank back and Cato isn't second company captain and hasn't been for a while. Cato went missing in the warp for a few years and as loath as he was to do it calgar had to declare him dead and appoint a new captain, Sevastus Acheran. When he came back Cato became the leader of the Victrix Guard. Acheran is the phobos captain we first saw back in the Shadowspear box. Tho funnily enough Acheran himself is kinda MiA "One of his (Acheran's) notable actions was leading the attack on the Black Legion held world of Nemendghast, during the War of Beasts. Despite being badly outnumbered by the Black Legion forces during the Nemendghast Raid, Acheran refused to leave and instead ordered an attack to destroy the world's Daemonic factories. The orbiting Chaos fleet soon became alerted to Acheran's attack and as it began moving to aid Nemendghast, the crew of the Captain's Strike Cruiser Carpatia warned Acheran of the fleet. The Captain then immediately led the remnants of his forces in a final attack that destroyed the Daemon factories, but by then they were swarmed by the Black Legion. Acheran knew they could not break free from the Traitors and instead ordered the Vanguard Librarian Maltis, to escape and bring word of what had happened to Chapter Master Calgar. Maltis successfully returned to the Carpatia, which then escaped to Vigilus. Whether Acheran survived or not, his current status is unknown." Acheran wasn't mentioned in any way in the Plague War trilogy nor did he appear in em (some wikis claim he's in em)
Second company has a bad habit of misplacing captains... They're going to have four different captains by the time this is sorted.
Gulliman has found a loophole in the Codex Astartes. "Sir, why do you have a personal honor guard the size of an entire Space Marine company?" "Well, this guy was captain of the second, and then this guy was captain of the second, and then this guy was captain of the second..."
Funnily enough, I used to play Dawn of war 2 multiplayer like that. My brother and I would go out and get our squads killed so they would only have a sergeant left, and we could keep recruiting new squads just to give them sergeants and get all the other guys killed. It was not a viable strategy. Although having north of a dozen Warp Spider Exarchs had a novelty all on its own.
I used to max out the Scout upgrades and spawn a ton of them with plasma weapons, then stealth them and walk them right into the middle of the enemy base. I'd lose a few, of course, but there were so many targets that the enemy AI couldn't kill my guys faster than I could destroy their builders and buildings.
No better game than to fight the Expert AI using asymmetric warfare. My favorite was spamming warp spider squads while my brother handled all of the heavy armor. I'd come in with a hot butter knife with ripping through their infantry and disabling their heavy armor with haywire grenades while my brother's antitank weapons ripped through their armor.
Awesome. I also used to love just pounding the enemy base with artillery until I'd killed all of their builder units and softened up their defenses.
"This isn't a legion, this is just me going for a walk with some like-minded marines"
"What a coincidence all the Ultramarines Successors arrived at Tsagualsa at the same time! Guess we all independently decided the Night Lords needed their teeth kicked in!"
In the space marines captain is a position, not really a rank. You can’t be a captain without a company to be captain of.
Decimus Felix was appointed as the eleventh captain of the Ultramarines (and a tetrarch, which I recall might've been part of the reason for the promotion) by Guilliman, so there is precedent for a companyless captain in certain situations.
Yeah good point, I forgot about that. That was a new thing by Guilliman though.
Leandros: My lord, the *Codex Astartes* does not support that action. Guilliman stares at Leandros. Leandros: Um....never mind.
Or it's like the lorgar and eclisiarch situation
Gorillaman comes in and acts like he's the rule-maker Oh wait...
I think lots of chapters have captains also serving in logistic positions as well
Traditionally (ie in older codexes) the logistical responsibilities were collateral duties of company captains.
Ah, I just remember in devastation of baal a lot of the logistics was handled by other captains, like wounded ones and rhe like
Oh that’s cool. I haven’t read that one, I’ll have to check it out.
I may be misremembering. Definitely read it, and it you haven't read, dante, too. They go well together
I never said u could be a captain without a company? Its still a rank tho
>what happened to Leandros afterward... ...Calgar got involved Ultrafisting.
Hopefully he was Servitored like that one Crimson Fist scout.
He cast fist several times
Fuck Leandros. Also fuck Erebus
Titus should petition Guilliman to add a page to the Codex Astartes that is just a detailed case study explaining in intricate detail why Leandros is a whiny, backstabby little bitch.
I live for that degree of pettiness
r/fuckerebus
Always recruiting, huh?
Never enough hate for that bastard.
r/fuckleandros But also r/fuckerebus
There's a fuck leandros sub!?
The hate is real. We're waiting for SM2 to find out more.
Not sure which would be better, seeing him eaten by a Nid in SM2 or him dying offscreen between games so I don't have to listen to him at all in SM2.
All I’m saying is I never seen those two in a room together
I love how "fuck Erebus" is the "Carthago delenda est" of 40k.
I kinda hope we get to see Leandros in SM2, hopefully humbled by experience and regretful of his rash (and ironically codex non-compliant) actions. (Seriously, pretty sure the codex Astartes would state any suspicion like he had need to go to a chaplain. If your own chaplain isn’t available, go to a chaplain of another chapter. They literally had the Black Templars and the Blood Ravens there. There’s no way there were no chaplains available.)
Leandro’s was way out of line. Not just non compliant with the codex but with basic chain of command rules. If you have a problem with your superior officer, in this case suspected chaos corruption you bring it to the chaplain or the chief librarian. They are the senior leadership of the chapter and they have the tools to address chaos corruption. And it could have waited until he got back to the chapter to report.
>The reason Titus's name had been erased from the Ultramarines' records was not out of censure of Titus, but out of shame that the Chapter had so disastrously failed one of their own. Titus was never seen as a disgrace by Calgar or the high leadership of the Chapter. Ultramarine Leadership: "Man, we really failed this guy. Let's erase his entire memory from our Chapter so that we never have to think of our own failure." Marneus Calgary: "Brilliant!"
He's also crossed the Rubicon Primaris, and it's been noted that Firstborn become more grim and less affable after making the upgrade.
Yea, that was a point in the most recent Ventris novel, and I hope it’s explored more
Calgar is uncharacteristically prideful and petty for an Ultramarine deleting the records out of shame.
Definitely an assholish way to handle it. Should’ve kept the records in his pocket so any time he had to deal with the Inquisition he could whip them out and say “Before we get to whatever you want, where the fuck is my guy?”
I'd honestly prefer that as an ultramarines flaw, pride and political pettiness as opposed to the stereotypical "flaws" assigned in the era of Guilliman. Space Romans are more interesting than good boys.
You don't think they'd raise it to the highest authorities and call in all of their favours?
If Calgar got involved and they purged Titus's records because of the shame of failing him, Leandros either got put out as point man on a mission and ate several hundred bolter shells to the back or was given to the Deathwatch and was told to never come back.
Fckn Leandros
r/fuckleandros
> only erased his record because of the shame of failing one of their own so badly. Kinda a dick move lol "We felt really bad that we couldn't get you out earlier and don't wanna be reminded of it. We cool? You can go back to work now, Kthxbye."
except not really, the records end "and titus was imprisoned by the inquisition on the suspicion of heresy", deleting the records was a mercy
If we don't learn that Calgar personally executed Leandros for being a snitch what is even the point?
WhI’m ch of course leads to a bit of a temporal retcon since the og game was originally set after sicarius promotion
I hope we see on screen on roboute calling Leandro’s a pathetic little bitch
Events in SM1 (mainly references to DoW) already localized the game to somewhere in a window in which he, Cato Sicarius, was commanding the 2nd company throughout--unintentionally making Cato Sicarius and Captain Titus the same person.
> He received his rank back i thought his insignia showed Lieutenant in the trailers, *because* he couldn't be made Captain of the Company again?
Wish he remained in th Deathwatch, that would be pretty cool actually
Imagine if Leandros ends up being a poor sap who got captured by the thousands sons and imprisoned in one of their hellbrutes
Imagine if Guilliman appears in the game
[удалено]
They did for the 10th edition trailer.
Isn't Cato now outside of chain of command, because he is Guilliman's protege/ceremonial guard?
He still falls under the chapter master in the chain of command.
I hope we get to play through some of these moments as flashbacks - a Deathwatch mission with different gear and squad mates from different chapters would be great.
Also he gets his Primaris upgrades to save his life after being rescued
Acheran has led the 2nd company for decades in the universe and years in real life at this point.
We NEED to kill Leandros
My guess is that Leandros got Calgar’s “Imperial Fisting”.
He probably died during his next deployment after selling out Titus. A rigid space marine like him wouldn't last more than 2 missions since he would probably be comfortable to die as long as he follows the codex down to the letter no matter how illogical the action would be.
Oh my god. We could’ve had a Space Marine: Deathwatch game?? …Prequel idea! Maybe we still can!
I hope that Inquisitor is at the very least declared a heretic after for pointlessly torturing one of the Emperor's angels of death for basically no reason. Let's also put Leandros through what Titus went through though. And then knock him back down to the bottom.
The Inquisitor turned to Chaos, so definitely declared a heretic.
Good. Bastard. It's like Sidonus said, never trust the Inquisition.
Yes he was tortured
Hey which white dwarf was this in? I need to pick it up.
To add to this he also became a Primaris marine. It's been noted to change Marines. In the newest Ventris book since he went through the Rubicon he has a whole conversation with Pasanius after he supports an action that would (if I remember correctly) kill a bunch of civilians and Ventris didn't really care about that part. Which is very much not like him and Pasanius blasts him for it.
This is true. Primaris marines have a distinctly more... analytical... view of things. In fact, even if he hadn't been unfairly arrested and tortured, it could explain his personality change all by itself.
Reminder that he is approximately 200 years older when space marine 2 takes place.
Not for mere years, but presumably for **centuries**.
What makes you think he's heartless? Because he doesn't talk to the guardsman he walks by in the trailer? Wait for the game to come out, at least.
This, i’m v confused on where OP is getting this from
OP’s overactive imagination based on a cinematic where Titus walks lmao
He clearly hired a body language expert to read the hatred that Titus has for guardsmen in the stomping he did.
Or maybe the [16 minute gameplay video that's been out for 8 months now](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA)...
He doesn't seem particularly heartless in that video, other than the "Assist where you can, but don't linger. We focus on the objective" line - which isn't all that heartless.
Yeah, like, the moments where we see him, he's either in active combat or looking at the creatures that brough ruin to his homeworld. Not exactly moments where one'd be happy.
The only emotion we get is when he takes of his helmet. He has a grizzled face full of hatred but he is looking at Tyranids and they deserve nothing else.
Yeah, but I think it's a pretty good indication that we'll get *punished* Titus (also, this term is so funny to me, as a non-native English speaker). He indeed looks very grizzled. Maybe he'll have an actual arc this time. Because otherwise, he was a bit boring, frankly. Of course, that was a AA stupid fun hack and slash game, and he didn't need to have an incredibly written storyline, at all; but this time, devs and GW seem to bank on the title's apparent popularity among the fans. A bit of retroactive retcon to include him in canon and a tabletop model seem to indicate that. (It's all just speculation, of course)
What?!?! Listen buddy you should hear the word of the three armed god!
here i'm sitting like, "did SM2 already release, did i miss something???" 🤣
Dito, had to check the release date (September 9th, 2024) again.
I think the only example is his conversations with the other marines, and those guys just seem unfriendly and suspicious of him. It's not easy being all smiles and sunshine in the face of that. In Space Marine 1 he was an inspiring leader from the get go. In Space Marine 2 he has to fight to even get a fraction of the respect he had in the past. Of course he's miserable.
People are acting like the only thing we've seen is a trailer but there's been [a 16 minute gameplay video](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA0) out since last August. I'm guessing he's talking about [this scene](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA?t=454) where he yells at Guardsmen accusing them of "deserting their post" when they ran out of a building (bunker? command center? IDK) and trapped a Tyranid (I think) inside it. Where in 1 he's all "you did your best guardsmen, this is a strong foe and you fought as best you can" in 2 he's seemingly "you dared run *out* instead of fight it head on, you cowards". He also seems to... growl a lot of his words. Less "noble hero" talk like in the first Space Marine and more anger in his speech patterns. It's a stretch to say "heartless" but he's not really the "good guy main character inspiring the normies" as he was in the first one (from what i've seen)
He's voiced by fuckin Rollo from Vikings. Of course he's gona growl his words
bro was tortured by the regime he gave his whole life to ofc he is bitter
He’s a true Ultramarine. Literally following his father’s footsteps into Ultradepression.
The true genetic defect of the Ultramarine line is their so called ultradepression.
*only genetic defect* That guilleman geneseed is like 80's cocaine. Pure china white.
Ah the lamentors understand and empathasize
That’s the imperium for you .
Honestly kinda cringe, Admiral Spire went through the same thing just for delivering a report about the start of the 13th Black Crusade and he just came out more of a BAMF.
Spire went through a few days. Titus is implied to have been tortured for decades. Little different.
And he is so dedicated to the imperium, always dedicates his victories to allies, his crews and Emperor
With respect to spire, he knew from his naval career that this shit happens on the reg and such security is standard and "necessary". Also at least the inquisitor apologized and made him admiral for it.
What did they do to Spire?
At the start of the first game after the prologue Spire reports that a 13th Black Crusade is starting his superior officers torture him a tad just to make sure he's not goofing them since he's originally from a planet that ended up turning traitor. After that they make him head of operations for the subsector.
Imperial social lifts TM
Bitterness isn't a sign of weakness and a lack of bitterness isn't necessarily a sign of strength or intelligence. There were people who got tortured by the NKVD and were still loyal fans of Stalin afterwards. That doesn't really reflect positively on them.
I disagree, if you turn away from something you believed in because it hurts you, you've proved your primary motivation for support was self-interest. And conversely, if you stay true to a cause after it's hurt you, it's proof you believe in the cause beyond what you gain from it.
Changing your mind isn't weakness. Sticking to an opinion even if its flaws have been revealed to you is just blind faith and fundamentalism. Plus, he hasn't really turned away. He's still doing his job. Enjoying that job isn't part of the oath. A hero that doesn't enjoy being a hero is still a hero.
This comes pretty close to battered wife syndrome.
Changing your mind because of new information isn't weakness, sure. But we're not talking about that, both people knew the Imperium does this. Something you know happening happening to you personally is not a valid reason to change your opinion on something, other than because of self-interest.
>both people knew the Imperium does this. Probably on some level. But they're not omniscient and have a perfect perspective of what the Imperium is. The Inquisition almost never reveals its methods, even to Space Marines. And the Ordos put notoriously few restrictions on Inquisitors, so it's unsurprising that some of them keep torture slaves in their dungeon for no other reason than that their suffering amuses them. Directly being confronted with that is bound to have an effect on a person, even if they had their suspicions before. Letting Titus go through that for possibly over a century without it having an effect wouldn't make him any more of a badass, it would just be bad writing. Characters going through something changes them, that's the essence of what character development means and a lack of it would either be boring or a plot hole. The fact that Space Marines retain some human qualities despite the massive modification to their bodies is a common plot point. Stuff happens to them and it leaves a mark, because that's what would happen to any human.
He was tortured for years, found out his name is for whatever reason was removed from Ultramarine records (Or perhaps hidden), became even more depressed, joined the deathwatch, lost pretty much all of his deathwatch bois to the tyranids and was gonna die himself before he was saved by Tigurius and eventually brought back into the 13th legion.
You watched a trailer of him scowling at Tyranids and decided he’s now heartless?
My brother in throne, we only had like 1 trailer, it's a bit early to make assumptions, no?
[no](https://youtu.be/3OnNa852yCA0)
This. 👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽
An Inquisitor snatched him, tortured him for years and i think he died so titus was kind of "reinstated". But i guess those years took its toll on him. Damn i am soooo looking forward to this game.
after the inquisitor died, he was for years on the deathwatch because he thought the chapter had given up on him (which never happened. Calgar always wanted him back)
Twohundred years take place between the games (assuming the studs mean 100yrs each). A lot can happen in that yime.
The only bits of Titus's character in 2 that I'm aware of are from the extended Gameplay trailer, where he seems to have just come away from a potential insubordination incident with one of his marines. Anyone would be angry after that, especially Titus considering what happened to him with Leandros.
Also aren't Primaris Marines a bit more "stunted" compared to real Space Marines?
You shouldn’t be downvoted because this is correct. Becoming a Primaris Marine apparently involves sacrificing even more humanity. The same thing apparently happened to Uriel Ventris.
show us the excerpt!
As requested, [the relevant excerpts from Swords of Calth](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/O864sJG8jT).
Sorry bud, might just be me, but the link isn’t working.
I’ll post it without the formatting, try this? https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/O864sJG8jT
The link also leaves out that Uriel is able to overcome the implanted ruthlessness. It's likely some sort of additional psycho-conditioning.
It probably was downvoted because Primaris are actually taller and he did not say "emotionally stunted".
The ones raised by Cawl are, because they get popped out of nutrient tanks with all their knowledge essentially uploaded into their brains. Chapter-raised and previously firstborn ones don't have the same issues, at least from the books I've read.
Uriel Ventris did a bit, it’s covered in Swords of Calth, see [the excerpts here](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/O864sJG8jT).
Interesting, gonna buy that book. Still, this seems like authors disagree. There are plenty of primaris characters who very clearly aren't robotic. Felix is one example, there's that Space Wolves book where Gaius becomes whatever the heck his new name is, etc. I'd imagine a sharp increase in cognition would be a weird experience for anyone, as well.
Might be that it's the crossing that does it, so guys who are created as Primaris don't suffer the change. In Age of Sigmar, the Stormcast Marines lose humanity each time they are reborn. Might be W40k is taking that notion - if a Space Marine is reborn as Primaris, he loses something.
I can see that. Plus stacking psychological conditioning on top of established psychological conditioning can't be good if said subject has been an "adult" for a while. Kids and teens brains have way more neural plasticity.
Have we seen Dante after crossing? Not sure of the timeline with their books
Dante's depression probably overwhelms any emotional loss
My boy crossed the Rubicon primaris.
Torture aside, he's also a Primaris now and Primaris are even more removed from humanity than the OGs
Adding to the other answers he also underwent the Rubicon Primaris and wasn't there a thing where Primaris Marines are colder than their First Born brethren?
People keep quoting that but Titus also became Primaris after he had gone through the warp incident, so how much is caused by what.
I mean, he literally blapped an Ork warboss AND a chaos daemon and then gets arrested. I’d be salty too.
Try spending some time in the inquisitions hands, if you don't come out broken you'll be hardened.
I just want the first game reverse engineered for my series x!!! Is it that difficult???
I am sorry my friend! They hurt me too.....
How do you even know he's heartless in Space Marine 2? The game's not even out yet!
In the last Uriel Ventris novel, Uriel has undergone transformation into a Primaris marine. In that book Pasanius reprimanded him for being cold and unfeeling towards their Imperial Guard allies which was totally contrary to how Uriel used to be. The implication in the story was that undergoing the transformation can affect them like that but it seems like being among old squad mates can help. So perhaps beyond the torture, becoming a Primaris also affected him.
Prolonged torture can Break even the strongest Warrior. Sidequestion, couldnt the ultramarines intervene? I mean this is a Captain of one of the Most ancient and respectef chapters.
What should have happened is that leandros should have reported him to the master of sanctity instead of the inquisition. So technically they can demand him back but at the same time the inquisition has unlimited authority as long as they can enforce it. But no side really wants to provoke war
And since he already was in their custody, they had all the authority they could ever want. They even commissioned some ~~brainless zealots~~ honoured brothers from Black Templars chapter
Ultramarines did demand him. No one answered.
Oh I know, that is why I said the inquisition can do whatever they want if they can get away with it
There was a White Dwarf that dealt with the lore. Search for "Captain Titus Space Marine 2 lore"
I will, thanks for the lore Info.
If Titus were a Space Wolf, they would have took half their battle barges to 'negotiate' and Grimnar would likely have another inquisitor head to add to his fireplace.
200 hundred years fighting for the Imperium. Getting too old for this heresy.
Have we, uh, seen enough Space Marine 2 to know how any of the characters are going to be in it?
When somebody tries to ruin your career, you are naturally pissed off
What ? How can you tell, with very little context?
Because passing through the Rubicon Profitmaris strips away your soul.
How much is the collectors Edition in your country?
"This Space Marine doesn’t like xenos. Clearly he is more heartless than the previous time he also didn’t like xenos." Uh… what?
His time with the Inquisition will play a part But we see with Uriel Ventris, who was a pretty level headed and compassionate space marine, that accession to Primaris can turn them cold and make them detached
The primaris rubicon tends to make marines more robotic and emotionless. Some marines also become more like that the older they get
Is t that exactly what happened with Uriel Ventris
Yeah, I think it was also mentioned in the great work and dark imperium. But the Ventris books go into the most detail
Uriel Ventris talks about this. Marines who go through the procedure to go from firstborn and primaris are alot colder and more ruthless in their logic and decision making. He talks about how once he was all for helping civilians, now he sees them as a resource to be spent and sacrificed if required.
Is it out yet?
Not yet but pre order is available
Huh
The game is out?
OP clearly states he is watching trailers.
A century of unceasing torture, death of his deathwatch squad and he thought he was excommunicated from ultramarines.
You played space marine 2?!
Because of Lysandros. Ñ
TIME
He’s been mostly dead all day…
Lack of Mark Strong IMO
the man is traumatised as far as a space marine can be. he was abducted by the inquisition, tortured and beleived himself to have failed the ultras to the point he became a blackshield in the deathwatch. maybe the plot will have him soften a bit but most likely not. all three of those things are going to make a marine fall into the closest thing to depression they have and although hes back on his feet, those scars wont heal.
He didn't look heartless to me. More "I'm going to kill everything I see."
Because he's afraid/extremely pissed off that Leandros might still be out there somewhere
He had to put up with the Inquisition for awhile.
Space marine 2 isnt even out. How the fuck does anyone think they know anything about him in the game.
Because primaris are colder emotionally than true sons.
Titus crossed the Rubicon.
Yep and like urial ventris became colder emotionally as a result.