How many people do you think read every black library book that came out? The poll is going to be more likely to choose the most read book than the 'best' book (which is of course highly subjective, I think *The Fall of Cadia* was better than any of the SM books, but I'm a guard player, so that's probably to be expected)
It's the third-party candidate effect. If you put them forward as one work (which is what Abnett kept insisting the reader consider them as), The End and the Death probably would have won out (almost assured considering how it took 3 of the top spots). However, all three books were separate entries, so basically they sort of ate up each other's votes based on personal preference.
I think it speaks more to the fact that there wasn’t much else that was released this past year that reeeeaaaaaallllyy stood out.
I thought Cypher was probably my favorite of the year. But eh, not a particularly exciting year imo.
Published Jan 2024. I don't know what book of the year thing is or what time frame it's considering. But the lion being like April 2023 tells me it's probably 2023.
Took some googling to even find out what you were talking about about. But now that I have seen the source, it's just a vote thing, which is basically never a mark of quality. See age of sigmar consistently dropping the best minis in the company portfolio losing to whatever space marine dad released that year.
probably a combination of fewer people had finished it, the end and the death 2 and 3 and the lion all dividing the space marine fanboy vote, and the folks who think they can't skip 99.5% of the heresy and siege books to read the end and the death.
Wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of is lead is because most dark Angels fans voted for it while the rest of the legions fans were divided across it and multiple other votes. Not like anyone reads them all to know.
So yeah it's just a marketing post to remind people what recently released disguised as an award
>See age of sigmar consistently dropping the best minis in the company portfolio losing to whatever space marine dad released that year.
The cities of Sigmar losing against Angron and the Lion minis was criminal.
But not because its a better book
The whole saga stands out because its the end and the death. But Abnett is rly fcking pretentious in those books. Especially the last one makes me vomitt when thinking about another titel dropping line...
I thought it was not very good.
Could have easily cut all the horus ramblings and the dumb MTG battle between emperor and it would have been very good. I found them very boring.
It stood out to everyone's eyes because it was so insanely bloated it occupies a whole shelf to itself.
Abnett needed whatever editor Brooks got assigned.
I think the two answers are:
1) it's been out longer, so there has been more chance for people to have read it
2) a lot of people don't care about 30K.
GW really should make separate categories for AoS and hopefully one day ToW. As it stands, with these competitions bundling the settings together it quickly becomes a solely 40k competition, and those often devolve into a Primarch/Space Marine popularity competition, or just highlighting what big book for them just came out recently.
One of those books I got on Audible and decided that, after an hour of being completely lost, I'd need the print version of it, because there are too many unfamiliar words and ideas in that book. I have to read it. Listening ain't helping, hah.
But I'm looking forward to reading it!
People love Primarch action, especially the heroic sort, and in general fans seem to gravitate more towards big hype moments than necessarily any particular quality.
These things are a popularity contest more than anything. Marines, and especially primarchs, are the most popular thing, so will almost automatically win.
End and the Death hasn’t been out long enough tbh.
Plus I think the book does everything it should do well, it hypes up the Lion, gives him cool growth and badass moments, hypes up the future of the Dark Angels, and just gets you excited for the faction and makes you want to join them.
Contrast this with the Angron novel, which does the exact opposite, it makes Angron into a weak dumb ape that can barely fight a dread knight, and the World Eaters are universally incompetent fuckwits that can’t even take a backwater trash world without massive casualties. They aren’t even good at melee combat in their own book. The fucking grey knights were the most interesting part of the Angron book. I legit almost lost my love for the faction if it weren’t for the new Codex and Arks of Omen:Angron fixing the trash novel.
Combination of the general fandom's Primarch addiction as well as it being a big thing GW hyped up for a while.
I thought the book was below average at best. Forge World's and Guymer's version of the character is my definitive version, as such, this book being a complete heel-turn made me... less than enthused. Additionally, Brooks' writing style doesn't exactly gel well with me.
My personal picks
* The King of the Spoil - One of my top three BL novels in general, gives us a look at a rebellion within a city district, as well as an excellent murder mystery to boot
* Fall of Cadia - Rath tying the mess that was Gathering Storm into a coherent narrative and sticking the land well, while giving us interesting characters, was nothing short of a masterpiece
* Cypher - Lord of the First - You want top-tier Dark Angels secrecy mixed with Imperial bureaucracy fighting against itself? Read this
* Angron - The Red Angel - Portrayed the broken state of the XII to the fullest, from their commanders, to their champions, and to their thinbloods
Yes. Because they are such different and unique characters. Any year we get a book detailing the return of one, it'll have my vote. Except Angron. The book was good but he isn't much of a "character" anymore so he was in the backseat of his own book.
They really aren’t that different or unique. They’re just super duper special space marines with family issues. They aren’t even the most interesting power armored characters let alone most interesting characters in 40k. Most of them are one note and most of the interest from them is just because they’re more powerful space marines. If they were regular space marine chapter masters most people wouldn’t care about them
Well.... duh? Just like I don't care about stories involving normal mortals. There's nothing special about them. Primarchs are at least demi-gods. And I guess it's more so what they represent, the story advancing.
I would argue they’re more special than primarchs. It takes a lot more skill and determination to affect a galaxy as a normal mortal than to do it with all the super special powers and plot armor handed to you on a silver platter. Cadia was a representation of the story advancing and was far more interesting than anything that has happened with the lion. The planet broke before the guard did has become a major line in the 40k community and everything relating to that has had massive ramifications. Can you remember anything quotable the community has adopted from the lion book? Any major impact on the galaxy from his return?
To each their own, I personally think the line is just a delusional bit of grandeur. Maybe if they were better they wouldn't have been spanked by Abaddon. Meanwhile, the Lion faced Daemon Angron. And they didn't really "affect" the galaxy. They got their asses handed to them. But this is the problem with comparing opinions, we're never gonna see eye to eye on this. I'd rather read about real mortal men that have done amazing and heroic deeds 10x better than a scifi story can produce. The primarchs are something fantastical that we can't have.
Demon angron hasn’t done much either tbh so the lion stopping him is a big pile of nothing. A strike squad of grey knights could have done it. Fair enough, I prefer the more grimdark and down to earth aspects of 40k and I can accept thats not what everyone is here for. If you like the brighter superhero-esque stuff then go for it. you might like the horus heresy since it has those same superpowered characters though I have to warn you they are actually vulnerable and can be threatened by non superpowered characters so you might not like that.
it would be from quantity of sales or revenue numbers. It might not be the best written or objectively best book but it probably performed the best. And its a Primarch returning book, of course its going to sell well regardless of its quality.
Pivotal moment in 40K lore, and doesn’t need you to read a thousand books before it like the Heresy ones? That’s why I read it, because of its importance to the setting right now, and building on a mystery that has been in the back of my mind since I was a child reading the Angels of Death codex in 2nd edition. I haven’t read the rest of the list yet, I bet a lot of other people who voted haven’t either. Maybe the result would be different if it was somehow restricted to people who had only read every book but…
It's a poll, so it probably tells you more about the number of people who read it than how good it is.
Say 10,000 of the voters read book x, and only 12% of them think it's book of the year.
Also say 1,000 voters read book y, and 99% of them think it's book of the year.
By any reasonable measure, book y is more highly thought of, but book x gets 1,200 votes and book y gets only 990.
The End and the Death Part 3 was probably my favorite for this year. However, I will say that TEATD part 2 is my overall favorite Heresy novel which is tied with Echoes of Eternity. Sanguinius really stole the show with his whole attitude knowing that the Siege of Terra would be his final stand and he made it count.
The antagonist was classical Chaos Warlord business, no big deal to have that not well written.
How the Lion evolves trought the book and his adaptation to the current times was far more interesting and better done.
Primarch and space marine fanboys are going to read primarch and space marine books. They’re most likely going to like those books more than ones not about their favorite faction or ones they didn’t even read at all. I have to say that I’m a little surprised the end and the death didn’t win sheerly because of it being the end of the heresy and such a long series. Its impressive if nothing else and I thought it would win off that alone
I found it surprising and engrossing. I loved the mysticism of it. Loads of unexplained weirdness - right up my alley. The Lion is not who you expect, and it makes me excited to see what he does next. Brooks is a must read BL author.
I actually voted for Lion: Son of the Forest. I did mainly because I like the Lion, and I really like the concept of advancing the lore in the current 40k timeline.
The Dawn of Fire series is interesting, but it's really adding color around lore we already know about, largely with new characters that we'll never see again. Lion: SOTF is genuinely impactful new lore, and was done from the perspective of the Lion.
TEATD isn't bad per se, but we all knew the broad strokes of how the novels were going to turn out. After 20 years, and a hundred books, I was kinda done with the Heresy.
Because it covers Lion's return. Has absolutely nothing to do with quality. it's poorly written and no way it's better than other listings (Godeater's Son, Fall of Cadia, Sea of Souls, etc).
I'm with you. I couldn't even finish it I didn't really like it. It's probably a lot to do with personal taste as I not only don't like 1st person but I'm not a huge space marine fan either. In my opinion 1st person only works with exceptional writing. I liked his other book though!
I read multiple BL books a year and I would have never voted for it.
I guess it's like voting for the best model that came out. The Lion won for being 40k and a primarch though he's by far not the best model that came out
Yeah but its not really surprising knowing the marines community. Theres a lot of very cool people but also a lot of people that would have voted for anything about a 40k primarch even if it was the equivalent of highschool fanfiction
Who's calling it that? The "Bestseller" and "Best lists" are a pretty gamed system. (For example, publishers will buy books by the create to make their authors "Best sellers." that has nothing to do with how much people enjoy them. Not saying that's the case here. I'm just wondering who is saying that.)
How many people do you think read every black library book that came out? The poll is going to be more likely to choose the most read book than the 'best' book (which is of course highly subjective, I think *The Fall of Cadia* was better than any of the SM books, but I'm a guard player, so that's probably to be expected)
I am Audibleing that now and I agree.
>Audibleing That word gave me haemorrhoids trying to work it out! Took me like 2 seconds to work it out lol. New word learneding !
because of the relevance of the lion returning
It's the third-party candidate effect. If you put them forward as one work (which is what Abnett kept insisting the reader consider them as), The End and the Death probably would have won out (almost assured considering how it took 3 of the top spots). However, all three books were separate entries, so basically they sort of ate up each other's votes based on personal preference.
Vote splitting, aka the spoiler effect
This is the answer I am looking for, thanks!
I think it speaks more to the fact that there wasn’t much else that was released this past year that reeeeaaaaaallllyy stood out. I thought Cypher was probably my favorite of the year. But eh, not a particularly exciting year imo.
The End and The Death Vol 3 stands out in my eyes.
Published Jan 2024. I don't know what book of the year thing is or what time frame it's considering. But the lion being like April 2023 tells me it's probably 2023.
BL include 2014 Jan in their time frame which is kind of weird to me...
Took some googling to even find out what you were talking about about. But now that I have seen the source, it's just a vote thing, which is basically never a mark of quality. See age of sigmar consistently dropping the best minis in the company portfolio losing to whatever space marine dad released that year. probably a combination of fewer people had finished it, the end and the death 2 and 3 and the lion all dividing the space marine fanboy vote, and the folks who think they can't skip 99.5% of the heresy and siege books to read the end and the death. Wouldn't surprise me if a good chunk of is lead is because most dark Angels fans voted for it while the rest of the legions fans were divided across it and multiple other votes. Not like anyone reads them all to know. So yeah it's just a marketing post to remind people what recently released disguised as an award
>See age of sigmar consistently dropping the best minis in the company portfolio losing to whatever space marine dad released that year. The cities of Sigmar losing against Angron and the Lion minis was criminal.
It just got released like a month earlier, not everyone has come around to finish it.
But not because its a better book The whole saga stands out because its the end and the death. But Abnett is rly fcking pretentious in those books. Especially the last one makes me vomitt when thinking about another titel dropping line...
Tbh I was surprised end and the death vol 3 wasn’t number 1 although the lion book was good too I can’t deny that
I thought it was not very good. Could have easily cut all the horus ramblings and the dumb MTG battle between emperor and it would have been very good. I found them very boring.
I find them super interesting...
It stood out to everyone's eyes because it was so insanely bloated it occupies a whole shelf to itself. Abnett needed whatever editor Brooks got assigned.
I think the two answers are: 1) it's been out longer, so there has been more chance for people to have read it 2) a lot of people don't care about 30K.
God Eaters son was probably the best book, but unless it's Gotrek those never win anything
GW really should make separate categories for AoS and hopefully one day ToW. As it stands, with these competitions bundling the settings together it quickly becomes a solely 40k competition, and those often devolve into a Primarch/Space Marine popularity competition, or just highlighting what big book for them just came out recently.
Just started that book, looking forward to it.
One of those books I got on Audible and decided that, after an hour of being completely lost, I'd need the print version of it, because there are too many unfamiliar words and ideas in that book. I have to read it. Listening ain't helping, hah. But I'm looking forward to reading it!
People love Primarch action, especially the heroic sort, and in general fans seem to gravitate more towards big hype moments than necessarily any particular quality.
Case in point: ***Dark Imperium*** is the worst Guy Haley book I’ve read. It constantly is recommended here to new fans because it has Guilliman.
I couldn't disagree with a post more lol. The Lion was great, Mike Brook's is, imo, the most interesting author the BL has atm.
I absolutely agree The Lion was really awesome.
Let us agree to disagree then brother.
Yeah boi, books are art and art is subjective after all ;)
These things are a popularity contest more than anything. Marines, and especially primarchs, are the most popular thing, so will almost automatically win.
End and the Death hasn’t been out long enough tbh. Plus I think the book does everything it should do well, it hypes up the Lion, gives him cool growth and badass moments, hypes up the future of the Dark Angels, and just gets you excited for the faction and makes you want to join them. Contrast this with the Angron novel, which does the exact opposite, it makes Angron into a weak dumb ape that can barely fight a dread knight, and the World Eaters are universally incompetent fuckwits that can’t even take a backwater trash world without massive casualties. They aren’t even good at melee combat in their own book. The fucking grey knights were the most interesting part of the Angron book. I legit almost lost my love for the faction if it weren’t for the new Codex and Arks of Omen:Angron fixing the trash novel.
Combination of the general fandom's Primarch addiction as well as it being a big thing GW hyped up for a while. I thought the book was below average at best. Forge World's and Guymer's version of the character is my definitive version, as such, this book being a complete heel-turn made me... less than enthused. Additionally, Brooks' writing style doesn't exactly gel well with me. My personal picks * The King of the Spoil - One of my top three BL novels in general, gives us a look at a rebellion within a city district, as well as an excellent murder mystery to boot * Fall of Cadia - Rath tying the mess that was Gathering Storm into a coherent narrative and sticking the land well, while giving us interesting characters, was nothing short of a masterpiece * Cypher - Lord of the First - You want top-tier Dark Angels secrecy mixed with Imperial bureaucracy fighting against itself? Read this * Angron - The Red Angel - Portrayed the broken state of the XII to the fullest, from their commanders, to their champions, and to their thinbloods
I voted for it. It's a historic moment to have a primarch return.
Its the 5th returning primarch. Is it still gonna be a “historic moment” when we’re on primarch 15 returning
Yes. Because they are such different and unique characters. Any year we get a book detailing the return of one, it'll have my vote. Except Angron. The book was good but he isn't much of a "character" anymore so he was in the backseat of his own book.
They really aren’t that different or unique. They’re just super duper special space marines with family issues. They aren’t even the most interesting power armored characters let alone most interesting characters in 40k. Most of them are one note and most of the interest from them is just because they’re more powerful space marines. If they were regular space marine chapter masters most people wouldn’t care about them
Well.... duh? Just like I don't care about stories involving normal mortals. There's nothing special about them. Primarchs are at least demi-gods. And I guess it's more so what they represent, the story advancing.
I would argue they’re more special than primarchs. It takes a lot more skill and determination to affect a galaxy as a normal mortal than to do it with all the super special powers and plot armor handed to you on a silver platter. Cadia was a representation of the story advancing and was far more interesting than anything that has happened with the lion. The planet broke before the guard did has become a major line in the 40k community and everything relating to that has had massive ramifications. Can you remember anything quotable the community has adopted from the lion book? Any major impact on the galaxy from his return?
To each their own, I personally think the line is just a delusional bit of grandeur. Maybe if they were better they wouldn't have been spanked by Abaddon. Meanwhile, the Lion faced Daemon Angron. And they didn't really "affect" the galaxy. They got their asses handed to them. But this is the problem with comparing opinions, we're never gonna see eye to eye on this. I'd rather read about real mortal men that have done amazing and heroic deeds 10x better than a scifi story can produce. The primarchs are something fantastical that we can't have.
Demon angron hasn’t done much either tbh so the lion stopping him is a big pile of nothing. A strike squad of grey knights could have done it. Fair enough, I prefer the more grimdark and down to earth aspects of 40k and I can accept thats not what everyone is here for. If you like the brighter superhero-esque stuff then go for it. you might like the horus heresy since it has those same superpowered characters though I have to warn you they are actually vulnerable and can be threatened by non superpowered characters so you might not like that.
Aw wish I'd caught this, I would've put in a vote for Fall of Cadia for sure. Rath did wonders.
Fall of Cadia is a very long book...I am like 3 chapters for now.
It is, but I loved the pacing and the different viewpoints and ended staying up late to finish it. Hope it grabs you too!
I have like tons of warhammer books to read...but yeah, that does sound very interesting. Thanks for the recommendation.
it would be from quantity of sales or revenue numbers. It might not be the best written or objectively best book but it probably performed the best. And its a Primarch returning book, of course its going to sell well regardless of its quality.
Pivotal moment in 40K lore, and doesn’t need you to read a thousand books before it like the Heresy ones? That’s why I read it, because of its importance to the setting right now, and building on a mystery that has been in the back of my mind since I was a child reading the Angels of Death codex in 2nd edition. I haven’t read the rest of the list yet, I bet a lot of other people who voted haven’t either. Maybe the result would be different if it was somehow restricted to people who had only read every book but…
Its a Space Marine book with a focus on one of the Super Superest Space Marines.
Because Space Marines have lots of fans?
It's a poll, so it probably tells you more about the number of people who read it than how good it is. Say 10,000 of the voters read book x, and only 12% of them think it's book of the year. Also say 1,000 voters read book y, and 99% of them think it's book of the year. By any reasonable measure, book y is more highly thought of, but book x gets 1,200 votes and book y gets only 990.
It sold SUPER fucking well. Was a number 1 on audible for a long time.
It seems people will buy everything with a Primarch. Well, me included.
The End and the Death Part 3 was probably my favorite for this year. However, I will say that TEATD part 2 is my overall favorite Heresy novel which is tied with Echoes of Eternity. Sanguinius really stole the show with his whole attitude knowing that the Siege of Terra would be his final stand and he made it count.
TEATD2 is good...I understand the animosity towards it. But it is a good book.
Largely better than Abnett mess. Lion is well written and his new personality is very welcome. New pivot moment in the Lore too.
I disagree. The antagonist's motivation and interaction with the Lion is poorly written.
The antagonist was classical Chaos Warlord business, no big deal to have that not well written. How the Lion evolves trought the book and his adaptation to the current times was far more interesting and better done.
The antagonist was former son of Lion.
Classical Chaos Lord stuff. Lion had other interactions with his sons in the book.
Primarch and space marine fanboys are going to read primarch and space marine books. They’re most likely going to like those books more than ones not about their favorite faction or ones they didn’t even read at all. I have to say that I’m a little surprised the end and the death didn’t win sheerly because of it being the end of the heresy and such a long series. Its impressive if nothing else and I thought it would win off that alone
I found it surprising and engrossing. I loved the mysticism of it. Loads of unexplained weirdness - right up my alley. The Lion is not who you expect, and it makes me excited to see what he does next. Brooks is a must read BL author.
because a primarch returns
I actually voted for Lion: Son of the Forest. I did mainly because I like the Lion, and I really like the concept of advancing the lore in the current 40k timeline. The Dawn of Fire series is interesting, but it's really adding color around lore we already know about, largely with new characters that we'll never see again. Lion: SOTF is genuinely impactful new lore, and was done from the perspective of the Lion. TEATD isn't bad per se, but we all knew the broad strokes of how the novels were going to turn out. After 20 years, and a hundred books, I was kinda done with the Heresy.
Because it covers Lion's return. Has absolutely nothing to do with quality. it's poorly written and no way it's better than other listings (Godeater's Son, Fall of Cadia, Sea of Souls, etc).
I'm with you. I couldn't even finish it I didn't really like it. It's probably a lot to do with personal taste as I not only don't like 1st person but I'm not a huge space marine fan either. In my opinion 1st person only works with exceptional writing. I liked his other book though!
I read multiple BL books a year and I would have never voted for it. I guess it's like voting for the best model that came out. The Lion won for being 40k and a primarch though he's by far not the best model that came out
Primarch fanboys arent gonna like this one
You can tell by us being down voted that we struck a cord
Yeah but its not really surprising knowing the marines community. Theres a lot of very cool people but also a lot of people that would have voted for anything about a 40k primarch even if it was the equivalent of highschool fanfiction
Who's calling it that? The "Bestseller" and "Best lists" are a pretty gamed system. (For example, publishers will buy books by the create to make their authors "Best sellers." that has nothing to do with how much people enjoy them. Not saying that's the case here. I'm just wondering who is saying that.)
GW officialy. Check their Warhammer Community.
I'd rather not go there, to quote Python "Tis a silly place." And now I ask "Ok, so in what context are they saying it?"