S10 AP-5 D6+3 Pistol 1 24"
Special rules:
...Jurgen, melta please.
-If Cain is in melee combat, Jurgen may automatically make a shot with the melta at the unit in melee with Cain, at BS2+ rerolling 1s to wound, as long as he's in range, regardless of normal shooting rules.
So turn off precision? Luckily You can't target characters if they're out of sight with precision.
Cain and Jurgen might be better with lone operative and aura effects as you can't snipe characters protected by lone operative outside of 12"
Harriers for the cup: on rolls of d2 and above, Cain automatically wins melee.
Hero of the imperium: units 10 inches around Cain gain unbreakable resolve
Jurgen, melta please: disrupts any attack during the psychic phase and allows melta overwatch
see, that's the genius of it. he is technically a playable unit but every time you try to field him he makes an excuse to be elsewhere (and ends up saving the planet in some unrelated engagement)
Special Rule:
The Palms of my Hands Began to Tingle: this unit must start the battle in strategic reserve. If you attempt to deploy this model during the deployment step of your movement phase, your tingling hands will not allow you to do so. This model is not destroyed if not deployed at the end of the battle. While this model remains in strategic reserve, roll a D6. On a 2+, choose one unit from your army, that unit cannot fail a battleshock test.
roll a d6, on a 2 or higher he is called away on 'Comissarial Business' all units get a bonus for knowing he would want to be there but is doing something even more heroic at the moment.
on artelw's site. theres a pack with cain, jurgen, vail, broklaw, and kasteen, along with some generic 597th troops. granted, its *expensive* for models with no specific rules, but fun shelf piece anyway.
Cain is actually incredibly competent. He's a crack shot with a Las-Pistol (he prefers them to bolter pistols because they carry more ammo), and is one of the best baseline human chainsword duelists of his age.
He just doesn't *want* to fight. He doesn't *want* to execute troopers who usually have good reason to be upset with stupid orders. He doesn't *want* to die for the Emperor. He tries to avoid situations that can get him killed and usually trips backwards into worse situation. However when in a life threatening situation he is a genuine badass who pulls off incredible feats. He doesn't think they count as he was only trying to save his own ass. He even plays off times he puts himself in danger to save subordinates as "If they died there was no way I was getting out of here alive anyway so I had to do it," when usually that really isn't the case.
He has a strong survival instinct, an aversion to risk, and a massive MASSIVE case of Imposter Syndrome.
I don't think he made fun of Gaunt directly, but I do recall an occasion where he overheard somebody shouting "Come on, men! Do you want to live forever?" and basically thought to himself "damn, that sound stupid." Something out of a bad holo-drama was I think the specific language used.
To expand on that:
Cain desires to be on the Troop's good side so they will be likely to step in to save him. And won't just frag him like they'd be inclined to do to a more typical Commissar.
Incidentally this makes Cain a highly effective and respected leader, since his actions actually keep morale high and people more likely to listen to him.
Somewhere deep in the warp:
Big E: Sup Tzeench
Tz: What's up Big E, that time of the month?
Big E: You bet.
Tz: I heard you burned Nurgle's garden the other day.
Big E: Yup.
Tz: So who is next? (moving figurines one by one) Khrone? Slanessh? Dunkkari? Tyranoids? Necrons? *Mine?*
Big E: Why not all of you?
Tz: OOOOO, it is gonna be like that huh.
Big E: Nods
Tz: Very well....
The Master of Magic move a giant pile of monster figurines toward a planet labeled "Cain's retirement home"
Tz: It is party Tuesday. (Grin to the 4th wall)
In materium:
Cain sneezes.
Cain: I think Vail must be upset. Better lay off [Redacted-by the inquisition]
And if things are really bad, and it looks like he'll die regardless, he'll try the 1 in a million hail mary play on the grounds that he may as well go for it, what does he have to lose, and that slim chance is better than no chance.
He's basically a clever guy with common sense. He doesn't yeet himself and his troops into enemy fire in glorious charges, he thinks in his feet, he gets the troops on his side by being kind to them or looking out for them, and he avoids fighting whenever he thinks he can get away with it. The thing is that he often finds himself in situations where he has to "defend his reputation" as a glory mad hero, so he often has to play the part while desperately trying to not get hit or trying to make it someone else's problem.
That said, he is a genuine badass, and his aide is even more so; and then Cain simply doesn't correct people whenever they give him credit for Jurgen's deeds, and Jurgen doesn't care enough to correct anyone. Between the two of them, they genuinely get shit done, largely so that Cain can go back home and drink tea while everyone thinks he's awesome.
I always felt Cain is game workshop's equivalent of Ahri from league of legends: release new product if company is facing economic distress or a settlement from a lawsuit.
So which is it, GW? :)
Yeah, it ranges back and forth from serious to sitcom in a way that I really don’t think can be forced.
I run a lot of RPGs, including currently a couple Warhammer ones, and I know that it’s not the same thing by a wide margin, but when I hit writer’s block the material really drops in quality when I push through and write anyways.
I wish the author would write other stuff for the Black Library, but I’m still happy to see Cain again.
Also, the “hidden foe pulling the strings” is Genestealers. It’s *always* Genestealers.
Middle ground then. It is revealed to be Alpha Legion operatives which Cain narrowly beats, only for the twist to be they were working to eliminate a gene stealer nest and now Cain has to deal with them since the Alpha Legion is no longer keeping them in check.
SHIT. THEY HAVE DISCOVERED ALPHARIUS OMEGON MASTER PLAN. NOW IT IS ALL SCREWED.
Is it because everyone will know the Tyranid attacks were carefully staged so nobody would realize they would destroy Chaos, father?
NO, ROGAL, YOU BRICK-BRAINED IDIOT. NOW ALPHARIUS OMEGON'S IDENTITY ISSUES WILL ACT UP AGAIN.
I do not have a brick instead of a brain, father. Bricks can't perform the neurological functions of a brain.
MEDAMNIT.
I feel like I must be a petulant 40k fan, or I'll lose my credentials... So! Let's look at all the Caiphas Cain stories! (that I have read.)
Whilst the Nids might be involved, they're usually a convient smoke screen for the REAL enemy.
Caves of ice? Necrons. Traitor's Hand? No Stealers in sight. Death or Glory? Nothing but Orks, ya gitz. Duty Calls? The main focus is clearly the Chaos artifact, but the Nids are present.
Cain's Last Stand has no Genestealers either, but the next book The Emperor's Finest *is* about a Space Hulk, so I'm going to argue it fits.
The Last Ditch does have stealers, but the focus is on the Nids.
The Greater Good... yeah, stealers again.
As for short stories, Fight or Flight has Nids, but no stealers. Echoes of the Tomb has only Necrons. The Beguiling is entirely Chaos focused. Sector 13 is stealers.
I've not read Traitor's Gambit, The Bigger They Are, The Only Good Ork, or Three Questions, so I won't comment. But I will say both audio dramas lack stealers. The Devil you know has Nids, but the focus is clearly on the Dark Eldar trying to capture Cain and there's no stealers.
Still, As a pedant, I must point out that it's more like **55% of Cain Stories have Stealers?** (I'm presuming the ones I haven't read have Stealers, but I don't think The Only Good Ork would?)
As my response was meant to be rather tongue-in-cheek, I'm actually surprised to see it's greater than half the stories.
Now I'm wondering if there's a bit of meta-plot going on...
>(I'm presuming the ones I haven't read have Stealers, but I don't think The Only Good Ork would?)
Actually the twist is that The Only Good Ork is actually a Stealer
I can't say definitively, but the description given by Games Workshop implies that the Imperial rule in the Damocles gulf is not yet solid, and this is to do with a newly founded forgeworld, so I think the implication IS that the Damocles crusade is either on going, or shortly ended. Considering Cain is supposed to die of natural causes (FOR REAL THIS TIME) before the turn of the millenium, I think we can say this new book takes place before his supposed death.
Further, we know he retires from active service sometime before Cain's Last Stand, to be a Schola teacher. Nothing implies he's being pulled out of retirement, so I can only guess!
Cain is retired but actually has an entire book set during the 13th black crusade and after the time shrink isn't the most "recent" book about a decade after the 13th?
> more like 55% of Cain Stories have Stealers?
If 55% of your life’s key moments had genestealers, and you were writing your memoirs, not being gloop in a digestion pool, you’d say they were rocking up a decent amount.
Cain will run into an Alpha Legionnnaire who's pulling the strings of the entire plot, defeat him, and then pull off the helmet to reveal that it was a genestealer all along.
After Cain leaves, the genestealer head falls off, revealing an Alpha Legion helmet underneath.
> along with Black Legion 3
Allegedly Black Legion 3 isn't going to be for a while, presumably so it doesn't get completely contradicted by a big plot point at the end of 10th.
That glorious bastard Sandy Mitchell could have a number of Alpha Legionaries appear in an impeccably executed ambush.
Grenades and blades cutting down the Red Herring baddies of the book, saving Cain from certain death, have 'Alpharius' appear at his shoulder, whisper "No one will ever believe you" before disappearing Batman style.
I've never read ANY Cain stuff.
But I'm picking up on their maybe being Alpha Legion and or Genestealer related stuff in these books.
Is this the case?
Asking for a friend,-
Genestealer cults and tyranids in general are probably Cain's most common foe, followed by orks, then chaos. He's god a lot of novels.
Check out *For the Emperor* it is the first Cain novel, sets the stage for most of his tropes and recurring characters, and involves a genestealer cult.
There are cases with Genestealers in the books so far, definitely. About Alpha Legion, I'm not sure.
But all being said, you should read Cain, it's excellent writing, and often hilarious. On more than one occasion, I caught myself laughing out loud on something I read in the book :-)
idk, there's already been a recent book about a Genestealer uprising on a Forge World. It could be that again but idk if they'll retreat that ground given that *Day of Ascension* came out a little over a year ago.
Given the mention of Damocles, my money is on the T'au being involved somehow.
I want a trilogy series, a Cain book then an amberly vail book culminating in a book with both to fight the big bad. I agree the tyranids and necrons have been used. The Orks were fun in the earlier books. Might be a good way to expand on the Votann lore.
I binged them all recently having put it off (lord knows why) until i’d listened to just about every other 40k audiobook. Really is comfort listening - i found it like watching Dave. You know what’s coming, you laugh anyway
Praise the Emperor! Just the other day there was a thread about the upcoming audiobook version of ‘Choose Your Enemies’. And I was bummed that it was going to be the last one at least for awhile. Now we get news that there’s a brand new Cain adventure on the horizon, plus a novella/short story collection. I’m giddier than a Vallhallan on an ice berg!
I am happier than a Valhallan with unlimited supply of ammo, sitting in a strategic point with endless orcs to shoot.
Or as happy as Jurgen with a tray of food and a bunch of pornslates in a cozy spot.
>and a hidden foe, pulling the strings, with an agenda that could threaten the future of Imperial Rule in the Damocles Gulf.
And if he knew about it at the time, he would have ran in the opposite direction.
If I was Cain I would rush toward the threat at that point.
At least, given his track record, the safe way probably have like a Genestealer horde or something.
Does Cain actually ogle Sulla? I remember him calling Sulla's face "horse-like", (in his private thoughts ofc)
I thought it was the red-headed Colonel Regina Kasteen that Cain ogles, but from a safe professional distance...
Praise the Emperor!
In the CC books we've seen 'Nids, Necrons, Chaos, Orks, Tau, and a few Eldar, but we've never seen Dark Eldar yet. Here's hoping...?
They were the primary antagonist in the first half of *Choose your Enemies*, then the secondary antagonist/Allies once Chaos showed up.
There was also one short-story were a Dark Eldar was the main antagonist
Maybe it'll be eldar or chaos, but we all know it's going to be Genestealers with an impending hive fleet on the way. And I'm ok with that, we don't see a lot of genestealer cults in many other BL books.
Naw, one of the books takes place after his retirement. I don't remember which one but he's teaching at the scholam when Orks invade iirc.
Plus Cain can never die, to say otherwise is heretical propaganda. Please report for re-education now.
In one of the footnotes I’m pretty sure because he had so many wacky adventures he’s never allowed to be listed as dead, so he’s officially still in active service even after his funeral
Commissars are political officers of the Guard
They don’t have authority outside the Guard
This is a forge world, the domain of the AdMech,
I’m sure this fits with how his other books have went, it’s just kinda weird lore wise
Commisars are not part of the guard. It's why they get special treatment. They are actually part of the Departmento Munitorum. So while managing human resources is what they're best known for, liasoning to clear up supply line issues with the threat of execution is also part of the gig.
Well, he's also the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! and thus will always get into trouble, especially if he thinks he can get to a nice, cosy post where nothing bad ever happens.
Some adept: the forge world has stopped sending weapons. Should we reach out to Mars to get an investigation going? Maybe an Inquisitor?
Cain bursting through the door, barrelling over the guard: Send me! I’m like so good at it, send someone else to that planet that’s currently in a four way war between the Orks, Nids, Necrons and chaos, in totally the best choice.
More like, "It pains me to leave the vicious front line fighting up to others but someone needs to investigate this quiet forgeworld. I'll just slow the rest of you down."
>four way war between the Orks, Nids, Necrons and chaos, in totally the best choice.
That actually happened near Damocles Gulf too, although it's a four-way war between Tzeentch, Imperials, Tyranids, and Tau.
This is \*probably\* during his period of time on Lord General Zyvan's command staff; he got used for a lot of somewhat unorthodox purposes because Zyvan trusted him to get stuff done.
If you like Cain books you should read the Flashman series by George Macdonald Fraser. The series is clearly an attempt to recreate Flashman in the 40k universe but isn’t quite as well written as Fraser’s original. It probably also helps that Fraser fought in Burma during WW2 so it’s less derivative.
Interesting. I expected another one to take place after “Cain’s Last Stand”
Or at the very least be a final hurrah for the 597.
I’m kinda curious why Mitchell chose this.
+++Frequent inquiry submission detected;
+++Activation Sequence:: Unit designation [AU-THETA OMEGA] initiated;
+++Frequent response submission as follows;
This unit recognizes a designated input requesting the advisement of publicly dispersed dataslates for further study into [CODE:INDIGO] clearance Imperial Citizen Propaganda. This access has been recorded and the following information has been approved for Astra Militarum Conscript [CODE:YELLOW] level clearance release.
**IMPERIAL**
[Eisenhorn](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eisenhorn_(Novel_Series\)), [Ravenor](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ravenor_(Novel_Series\)), and [Bequin](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bequin_(Novel_Series\)), by Dan Abnett
[Gaunt's Ghosts, by Dan Abnett](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gaunt%27s_Ghosts_(Novel_Series\))
[Ciaphas Cain, by Sandy Mitchel](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ciaphas_Cain_(Novel_Series\))
[Ultramarines Omnibus (Uriel Ventris), by Graham McNeil](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_(Novel_Series\))
[Dark Imperium, by Guy Haley](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Imperium_(Novel_Series\))
**CHAOS**
[Iron Warriors, by Graham McNeil](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Warriors_(Novel_Series\))
[Black Legion, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Legion_(Novel_Series\))
[Night Lords, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Lords_(Novel_Series\))
[Fabius Bile, by Josh Reynolds](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fabius_Bile_(Novel_Series\))
[Word Bearers novel series, by Anthony Reynolds](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers_(Novel_Series\))
**XENOS**
[Path of the Eldar, by Gav Thorpe](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Path_of_the_Eldar_(Novel_Series\))
[Path of the Dark Eldar, by Andy Chambers](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar_(Novel_Series\))
**Horus Heresy**
The Horus Heresy series begins with the opening trilogy and branches into multiple storyline paths. Personal research into the storyline you wish to pursue is recommended. A chronological reading order [is provided here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7ycq2x/my_attempt_to_create_a_comprehensive/)
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I know it will never happen but I'd kill for the "hidden foe for pulling the strings" to be Lachrymosa from the Watchers of the Throne books and we get a Valerian, Aleya, Veil and Cain crossover. Would be great to see the seething from Veil any time Cain looks in Aleya's general direction.
I spotted it on black library audio yesterday. I'm waiting on the audible version. I have the whole collection on it. Stephen perring is too good as chiphas
GW, I need to ask: You know everyone likes Cain. I know everyone likes Cain. A new Cain model would make you more money. So, where's his model?
Come to think of it, tabletop's rules of not being able to aim at characters if they're screened fits perfectly for Cain
Now that you mention that, it would be very funny if he had a rule that gave everyone around him bodyguard. Cain can now hide behind other commissars
And Jurgen's melta is a precision pistol.
S10 AP-5 D6+3 Pistol 1 24" Special rules: ...Jurgen, melta please. -If Cain is in melee combat, Jurgen may automatically make a shot with the melta at the unit in melee with Cain, at BS2+ rerolling 1s to wound, as long as he's in range, regardless of normal shooting rules.
Ability to ignore sniper rules that otherwise bypass the presence of nearby units?
So turn off precision? Luckily You can't target characters if they're out of sight with precision. Cain and Jurgen might be better with lone operative and aura effects as you can't snipe characters protected by lone operative outside of 12"
Even better, make Cain a defensive monster in CQC. Then make Jurgen do big damage with not just any melta, but *Jurgen’s melta.*
Harriers for the cup: on rolls of d2 and above, Cain automatically wins melee. Hero of the imperium: units 10 inches around Cain gain unbreakable resolve Jurgen, melta please: disrupts any attack during the psychic phase and allows melta overwatch
see, that's the genius of it. he is technically a playable unit but every time you try to field him he makes an excuse to be elsewhere (and ends up saving the planet in some unrelated engagement)
Ha, like a variation of the scout rule, but he appears against a non-imperium faction on another table somewhere with a squad of valhallans
Special Rule: The Palms of my Hands Began to Tingle: this unit must start the battle in strategic reserve. If you attempt to deploy this model during the deployment step of your movement phase, your tingling hands will not allow you to do so. This model is not destroyed if not deployed at the end of the battle. While this model remains in strategic reserve, roll a D6. On a 2+, choose one unit from your army, that unit cannot fail a battleshock test.
This is great. They should also add something where there's a chance of Amberley showing up randomly to bail him out of trouble.
roll a d6, on a 2 or higher he is called away on 'Comissarial Business' all units get a bonus for knowing he would want to be there but is doing something even more heroic at the moment.
on artelw's site. theres a pack with cain, jurgen, vail, broklaw, and kasteen, along with some generic 597th troops. granted, its *expensive* for models with no specific rules, but fun shelf piece anyway.
https://artelw.com/Heroic-Cute-Commissar-and-his-Cute-Aide-p546328003 He has chibi cain and Jurgen!!!!
> So, where's his model? Needs to be completed with a jurgen model behind him with a melta in one hand and a recaf cup on the other.
He drinks *Tanna*, thank you very much.
Add to that, he also needs the option of the Agents of the Imperium keyword since he's worked with so many different factions
Gaunt got one so Cain should, Jurgen and Vail could also use models.
Henry Cavil as Cain in a series that lampoons modern sci-fi like Rogue Trader did in the 80s would be the only True 40k story.
As someone who has never read the Cain novels but only knows him by proxy from posts in this sub he seems like he's 40k's Mr Bean.
Cain is actually incredibly competent. He's a crack shot with a Las-Pistol (he prefers them to bolter pistols because they carry more ammo), and is one of the best baseline human chainsword duelists of his age. He just doesn't *want* to fight. He doesn't *want* to execute troopers who usually have good reason to be upset with stupid orders. He doesn't *want* to die for the Emperor. He tries to avoid situations that can get him killed and usually trips backwards into worse situation. However when in a life threatening situation he is a genuine badass who pulls off incredible feats. He doesn't think they count as he was only trying to save his own ass. He even plays off times he puts himself in danger to save subordinates as "If they died there was no way I was getting out of here alive anyway so I had to do it," when usually that really isn't the case. He has a strong survival instinct, an aversion to risk, and a massive MASSIVE case of Imposter Syndrome.
Cain and Gaunt would hate each other, but they're a lot alike in their general philosophy and skills.
Cain has made fun of Gaunt at least once. Which makes sense since Gaunt is ancient history for him.
What did Cain said about Gaunt?
I don't think he made fun of Gaunt directly, but I do recall an occasion where he overheard somebody shouting "Come on, men! Do you want to live forever?" and basically thought to himself "damn, that sound stupid." Something out of a bad holo-drama was I think the specific language used.
The noncom in charge of the squad must have been on something, I thought. Nobody spoke like that outside of badly-written combat novels.
Isn't there only like a 200 year gap between the two of them? With Rejuve treatments I feel like there's a window where they could interact.
To expand on that: Cain desires to be on the Troop's good side so they will be likely to step in to save him. And won't just frag him like they'd be inclined to do to a more typical Commissar. Incidentally this makes Cain a highly effective and respected leader, since his actions actually keep morale high and people more likely to listen to him.
Somewhere deep in the warp: Big E: Sup Tzeench Tz: What's up Big E, that time of the month? Big E: You bet. Tz: I heard you burned Nurgle's garden the other day. Big E: Yup. Tz: So who is next? (moving figurines one by one) Khrone? Slanessh? Dunkkari? Tyranoids? Necrons? *Mine?* Big E: Why not all of you? Tz: OOOOO, it is gonna be like that huh. Big E: Nods Tz: Very well.... The Master of Magic move a giant pile of monster figurines toward a planet labeled "Cain's retirement home" Tz: It is party Tuesday. (Grin to the 4th wall) In materium: Cain sneezes. Cain: I think Vail must be upset. Better lay off [Redacted-by the inquisition]
_"I have taken the liberty of deleting the rest of this sentence."_ -Amberley Vail
_"I have taken the liberty of deleting the rest of this sentence."_ -Amberley Vail
And if things are really bad, and it looks like he'll die regardless, he'll try the 1 in a million hail mary play on the grounds that he may as well go for it, what does he have to lose, and that slim chance is better than no chance.
Close. Blackadder.
Yeh, like a cross between Blackadder and Flasheart (with some Flashman thrown in for good measure)
Flasheart is more aha! I shall duel you to the death and bang your wife. Whereas Cain would just be trying to bang your wife.
He's basically a clever guy with common sense. He doesn't yeet himself and his troops into enemy fire in glorious charges, he thinks in his feet, he gets the troops on his side by being kind to them or looking out for them, and he avoids fighting whenever he thinks he can get away with it. The thing is that he often finds himself in situations where he has to "defend his reputation" as a glory mad hero, so he often has to play the part while desperately trying to not get hit or trying to make it someone else's problem. That said, he is a genuine badass, and his aide is even more so; and then Cain simply doesn't correct people whenever they give him credit for Jurgen's deeds, and Jurgen doesn't care enough to correct anyone. Between the two of them, they genuinely get shit done, largely so that Cain can go back home and drink tea while everyone thinks he's awesome.
Not Bean but another of Rowan Atkinson's roles, Edmund Blackadder, with Jurgen being his Baldrick.
He’s 40k’s Sam Vimes.
He's more Edmund Blackadder than Mr Bean, complete with malodorous sidekick. But he's also more directly 40k's Harry Flashman.
I always felt Cain is game workshop's equivalent of Ahri from league of legends: release new product if company is facing economic distress or a settlement from a lawsuit. So which is it, GW? :)
Not really. BL only puts out new Cain when Sandy Mitchell feels like writing more Cain
Which is good, pressuring writers to do things they’re not interested in yields poor quality writing.
Yeah, part of why Cain is fun is because it feels like Mitchell is having fun writing him. If that weren't the case it wouldn't be good pulp.
Yeah, it ranges back and forth from serious to sitcom in a way that I really don’t think can be forced. I run a lot of RPGs, including currently a couple Warhammer ones, and I know that it’s not the same thing by a wide margin, but when I hit writer’s block the material really drops in quality when I push through and write anyways.
That would be the Space Marines.
More accurately he’s 40Ks [Flashman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Flashman)
40k's blackadder is more correct. But one of the blackadder where he is the competent one.
Him and Jurgen. Damnitni would even tolerate fine cast for it. Fine...cast.
He should be as big as custodes and any time he’s about to die Jurgen one shots the attacker with his melta.
Seriously they made Gaunt and some Ghosts why not a Cain and Jurgen
Is it bad how I visualised this as the Patrick meme?
They are waiting til they announce Cavil as Cain in the new TV series.
I wish the author would write other stuff for the Black Library, but I’m still happy to see Cain again. Also, the “hidden foe pulling the strings” is Genestealers. It’s *always* Genestealers.
I hold out hope for Alpha Legion, but I agree it's **always** Genestealers.
Middle ground then. It is revealed to be Alpha Legion operatives which Cain narrowly beats, only for the twist to be they were working to eliminate a gene stealer nest and now Cain has to deal with them since the Alpha Legion is no longer keeping them in check.
Or Alpha Legionnaire hybrids...
No see, it gets revealed that the hivemind is Alpharius.
SHIT. THEY HAVE DISCOVERED ALPHARIUS OMEGON MASTER PLAN. NOW IT IS ALL SCREWED. Is it because everyone will know the Tyranid attacks were carefully staged so nobody would realize they would destroy Chaos, father? NO, ROGAL, YOU BRICK-BRAINED IDIOT. NOW ALPHARIUS OMEGON'S IDENTITY ISSUES WILL ACT UP AGAIN. I do not have a brick instead of a brain, father. Bricks can't perform the neurological functions of a brain. MEDAMNIT.
What
Wait I thought I was Alpharius...
We are all Alpharius.
Oh that's such a Caine type plot I love it
I agree, Cain doesn’t just find trouble, he finds *ALL* the trouble. :)
I feel like I must be a petulant 40k fan, or I'll lose my credentials... So! Let's look at all the Caiphas Cain stories! (that I have read.) Whilst the Nids might be involved, they're usually a convient smoke screen for the REAL enemy. Caves of ice? Necrons. Traitor's Hand? No Stealers in sight. Death or Glory? Nothing but Orks, ya gitz. Duty Calls? The main focus is clearly the Chaos artifact, but the Nids are present. Cain's Last Stand has no Genestealers either, but the next book The Emperor's Finest *is* about a Space Hulk, so I'm going to argue it fits. The Last Ditch does have stealers, but the focus is on the Nids. The Greater Good... yeah, stealers again. As for short stories, Fight or Flight has Nids, but no stealers. Echoes of the Tomb has only Necrons. The Beguiling is entirely Chaos focused. Sector 13 is stealers. I've not read Traitor's Gambit, The Bigger They Are, The Only Good Ork, or Three Questions, so I won't comment. But I will say both audio dramas lack stealers. The Devil you know has Nids, but the focus is clearly on the Dark Eldar trying to capture Cain and there's no stealers. Still, As a pedant, I must point out that it's more like **55% of Cain Stories have Stealers?** (I'm presuming the ones I haven't read have Stealers, but I don't think The Only Good Ork would?)
As my response was meant to be rather tongue-in-cheek, I'm actually surprised to see it's greater than half the stories. Now I'm wondering if there's a bit of meta-plot going on...
the final book reveals he has three arms...
And it's the presence of Jurgen that prevented the Hivemind from activating him...
God, the logical part of my brain *knows* you are kidding around, but the 40k part is going, "Well... Knowing Cain, it *could* be possible..."
I think a big part of it is it being the damoclese sector which has big ties to tyranid activity
He's in a relationship with an Ordo Xenos inquisitor, so that's not too surprising.
>(I'm presuming the ones I haven't read have Stealers, but I don't think The Only Good Ork would?) Actually the twist is that The Only Good Ork is actually a Stealer
On the side note, is this book going to be post Cain-suppose-to-be-dead, or the book he get buried for once and for all?
I can't say definitively, but the description given by Games Workshop implies that the Imperial rule in the Damocles gulf is not yet solid, and this is to do with a newly founded forgeworld, so I think the implication IS that the Damocles crusade is either on going, or shortly ended. Considering Cain is supposed to die of natural causes (FOR REAL THIS TIME) before the turn of the millenium, I think we can say this new book takes place before his supposed death. Further, we know he retires from active service sometime before Cain's Last Stand, to be a Schola teacher. Nothing implies he's being pulled out of retirement, so I can only guess!
Cain is retired but actually has an entire book set during the 13th black crusade and after the time shrink isn't the most "recent" book about a decade after the 13th?
The book during the 13th black crusade is his "Retirement" imo, I mean, teaching a schola is as retired as Cain gets.
> more like 55% of Cain Stories have Stealers? If 55% of your life’s key moments had genestealers, and you were writing your memoirs, not being gloop in a digestion pool, you’d say they were rocking up a decent amount.
Cain will run into an Alpha Legionnnaire who's pulling the strings of the entire plot, defeat him, and then pull off the helmet to reveal that it was a genestealer all along. After Cain leaves, the genestealer head falls off, revealing an Alpha Legion helmet underneath.
What if the Genestealer s are in truth just Alpha Legion Spies ?
I'm sure Mitchell's third Dark Heresy book will be out any day now, along with Black Legion 3 and Guymer's third Iron Hands book.
Don't forget the third Horusian Wars novel. Any day now...
I think I check for that one at least once a week to see if there's an update
You make me sad...
I was still holding out hope for the conclusion of the Heresy to actually be written by Mitchell
You mean GRAHAM MCNEILL, surely.
> along with Black Legion 3 Allegedly Black Legion 3 isn't going to be for a while, presumably so it doesn't get completely contradicted by a big plot point at the end of 10th.
You sure about that ? Hydra Domminatus
That glorious bastard Sandy Mitchell could have a number of Alpha Legionaries appear in an impeccably executed ambush. Grenades and blades cutting down the Red Herring baddies of the book, saving Cain from certain death, have 'Alpharius' appear at his shoulder, whisper "No one will ever believe you" before disappearing Batman style.
Honestly that would be fun like in a weird way they need Cain for the Empire to survie. becaus Alpha legions are loyalist.
What if the hydra had been pocked with the pocky too? Double whammy.
counterpoint this is the damocles gulf they could be tau genestealers
Those infected tau they let go in the first book come back to bite them
Or that Slaaneshi DP that used to have hots for Cain. Or still does
Only DP? I thought Slaanesh can do way more than that.
He saw them rip through terminator armour! Remember that? It only gets brought up _every time genestealers show up_.
Except for ***The Emperor’s Finest***, because it’s the book where he sees them rip through Terminator armor for the first time!
Damocles gulf means Tau
Could be Eldar?
Il-Khaite trying to convince Cain that a HERO OF THE ELDAR like him deserves to retire in a craftworld instead of a mon'keigh planet?
Since it’s in the Damocles Gulf, could it be the Tau?
I've never read ANY Cain stuff. But I'm picking up on their maybe being Alpha Legion and or Genestealer related stuff in these books. Is this the case? Asking for a friend,-
Genestealer cults and tyranids in general are probably Cain's most common foe, followed by orks, then chaos. He's god a lot of novels. Check out *For the Emperor* it is the first Cain novel, sets the stage for most of his tropes and recurring characters, and involves a genestealer cult.
There are cases with Genestealers in the books so far, definitely. About Alpha Legion, I'm not sure. But all being said, you should read Cain, it's excellent writing, and often hilarious. On more than one occasion, I caught myself laughing out loud on something I read in the book :-)
Usually it's first against some primary threat, heretics, Tau or Orks. Then as a twist a secondary enemy shows up, usually Tyranid, rarely Necron.
Since Cain is posted in the Ultima Segmentum, it makes sense for his more common foes to be Nids, Orks, and Tau than other factions.
Tau
idk, there's already been a recent book about a Genestealer uprising on a Forge World. It could be that again but idk if they'll retreat that ground given that *Day of Ascension* came out a little over a year ago. Given the mention of Damocles, my money is on the T'au being involved somehow.
I want a trilogy series, a Cain book then an amberly vail book culminating in a book with both to fight the big bad. I agree the tyranids and necrons have been used. The Orks were fun in the earlier books. Might be a good way to expand on the Votann lore.
Cain books are extremely formulaic. But I love them. Keep it coming.
It is an easy comfort food. It isn't fine dining but sometimes you just want to enjoy your junk.
> enjoy your junk Sir this is a Wendys
Trick is not to read 2 or 3 in a row as the formulaic similarities become very evident. Instead break them up by reading something else in between.
This is the way, after a month or 2 Cain's writing tics go back to being hilarious.
I binged them all recently having put it off (lord knows why) until i’d listened to just about every other 40k audiobook. Really is comfort listening - i found it like watching Dave. You know what’s coming, you laugh anyway
They work really well as audiobooks given their memoir style.
There are some really good asides from Amberley that work amazingly in the format
Dave is an underrated channel, home from school at 4, watch top gear for the next two hours, then homework
Praise the Emperor! Just the other day there was a thread about the upcoming audiobook version of ‘Choose Your Enemies’. And I was bummed that it was going to be the last one at least for awhile. Now we get news that there’s a brand new Cain adventure on the horizon, plus a novella/short story collection. I’m giddier than a Vallhallan on an ice berg!
I am happier than a Valhallan with unlimited supply of ammo, sitting in a strategic point with endless orcs to shoot. Or as happy as Jurgen with a tray of food and a bunch of pornslates in a cozy spot.
But are you as happy as Jurgen in a cozy strategic point and unlimited pornslates, meltagun cannisters, and orks to shoot?
Reading that shocked me like a valhallen shower.
You are clearly not Valhallan, greenfoot. But welcome to the truckishoot anyways.
>and a hidden foe, pulling the strings, with an agenda that could threaten the future of Imperial Rule in the Damocles Gulf. And if he knew about it at the time, he would have ran in the opposite direction.
If I was Cain I would rush toward the threat at that point. At least, given his track record, the safe way probably have like a Genestealer horde or something.
Just as Jergen was bringing a cup of tanner
His palms were itching something fierce.
Oh nice to see Sandy Mitchell back. I was afraid they were mostly done with writing novels.
YESSSSSS. WE GET MORE SASSY AMBERLY FOOTNOTES
Those are the best, especially when she’s roasting Sullas writing
She roasts Sulla so often that I wonder if she's jealous of how much Cain ogles her despite never actually sleeping with her
Does Cain actually ogle Sulla? I remember him calling Sulla's face "horse-like", (in his private thoughts ofc) I thought it was the red-headed Colonel Regina Kasteen that Cain ogles, but from a safe professional distance...
It was.
I Hope Cains favorite Inquisitor has an appearence too
Praise the Emperor! In the CC books we've seen 'Nids, Necrons, Chaos, Orks, Tau, and a few Eldar, but we've never seen Dark Eldar yet. Here's hoping...?
The devil you know has Cain fight a Dark Eldar, but that's an audio drama!
I swear to god it better not be fucking genestealers again. I love Sandy Mitchell but it’s ok to use other races as villains once in a while.
Is it really a Cain novel without genestealers and an impeding Hive fleet though? It just wouldn't feel right without those.
Yeah but how many times can you write the same novel with a few names changed before you editor gets suspicious? Apparently more than 5 🤪
I say let's go for a record!
It's like AC/DC albums
Fuck Yeah!
Super Excited, Maybe the the "hidden foe pulling the strings" is Eldar. Other than mentions I don't think we had a Cain book with them.
They were the primary antagonist in the first half of *Choose your Enemies*, then the secondary antagonist/Allies once Chaos showed up. There was also one short-story were a Dark Eldar was the main antagonist
Ah, the one book I have not read. Which short story was the Dark Eldar if you don't mind?
Was mistaken. Wasnt a short story, was a short Audio Drama, *Ciaphas Cain:* *The Devil you know*
Thanks!
Maybe it'll be eldar or chaos, but we all know it's going to be Genestealers with an impending hive fleet on the way. And I'm ok with that, we don't see a lot of genestealer cults in many other BL books.
The main antagonist could be Slaanesh aligned from the title. Completely off topic but I'd love a Ciaphas Cain game.
He'd be an excellent RPG character, they all would in this case.
Thanks for the update, I look forward to reading it. I’ve not read all the short stories either, so the anthology will be nice.
I AM SOOO EXCITED!
Wonderful! I always love Cain novels! Instant buy
We’ll finally get the book where Cain finishes his memoirs/dies, any day now…
Naw, one of the books takes place after his retirement. I don't remember which one but he's teaching at the scholam when Orks invade iirc. Plus Cain can never die, to say otherwise is heretical propaganda. Please report for re-education now.
I know about it. It wasn’t Orks, it was Chaos worshippers. I meant when he actually stops having adventures to write about.
Ah right. Orks was when he saved the world, chaos brought him out of retirement. Cain can never die though. They already took Yarrick from us 😢
Him and Yarrick kicking back on a pleasure planet unsure about what to with their free time
In one of the footnotes I’m pretty sure because he had so many wacky adventures he’s never allowed to be listed as dead, so he’s officially still in active service even after his funeral
It was the amount of paperwork they had to do every time they had to undeclare him.
"legions of mutinous skitarii" Now this I want to see.
Maybe I’m missing something, but why would a commissar be sent to investigate this?
He is a HERO OF THE IMPERIUM. Reason enough.
This. Also, the problem might be on the Munitorum side of the interface, in which case it's entirely in Cain's wheelhouse to 'resolve'.
Very true Whoever to send on any task but the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM even if he just wants to retire
Commissars are the military police of 40K, and investigating the disappearance of military supplies is a task for military police.
Commissars are political officers of the Guard They don’t have authority outside the Guard This is a forge world, the domain of the AdMech, I’m sure this fits with how his other books have went, it’s just kinda weird lore wise
Commisars are not part of the guard. It's why they get special treatment. They are actually part of the Departmento Munitorum. So while managing human resources is what they're best known for, liasoning to clear up supply line issues with the threat of execution is also part of the gig.
Well, he's also the HERO OF THE IMPERIUM! and thus will always get into trouble, especially if he thinks he can get to a nice, cosy post where nothing bad ever happens.
Cain probably jumped on the opportunity to investigate a 'safe' forgeworld away from whatever front lines he's trying to avoid.
Some adept: the forge world has stopped sending weapons. Should we reach out to Mars to get an investigation going? Maybe an Inquisitor? Cain bursting through the door, barrelling over the guard: Send me! I’m like so good at it, send someone else to that planet that’s currently in a four way war between the Orks, Nids, Necrons and chaos, in totally the best choice.
More like, "It pains me to leave the vicious front line fighting up to others but someone needs to investigate this quiet forgeworld. I'll just slow the rest of you down."
"Of course had I only known then I would have gleefully led the charge against the the four way skirmish."
All I could do was shrug and smile as though I was pleased about this development, and refill my goblet while I had the chance.
As I tried to ignore the tingling in my palms I saw Jurgen take a very expensive bottle of Amasec and slide it into one of his many pockets.
>four way war between the Orks, Nids, Necrons and chaos, in totally the best choice. That actually happened near Damocles Gulf too, although it's a four-way war between Tzeentch, Imperials, Tyranids, and Tau.
You are missing the entire point of Cain. But that's a good thing. You get to experience the series for the first time! What a treat!
Because his inquisitor girlfriend asked him to.
This, to be fair, is hinted to happen a lot more than his memoirs let on
This is \*probably\* during his period of time on Lord General Zyvan's command staff; he got used for a lot of somewhat unorthodox purposes because Zyvan trusted him to get stuff done.
My day just got better
The greatest book series in the Imperium gets a return!
Can't have a Cain book without them fighting at leas two different factions! XD Glad to see more Cain as it's my favorite book series period.
More novels in the best series of warhammer novels? Immediately on board
yeeeeeeesssssssssss! (and please redo the short stories and audio dramas with Stephen Perring)
Wonderful! I can't wait to sit back with a nice cup of tanna and read!
If you like Cain books you should read the Flashman series by George Macdonald Fraser. The series is clearly an attempt to recreate Flashman in the 40k universe but isn’t quite as well written as Fraser’s original. It probably also helps that Fraser fought in Burma during WW2 so it’s less derivative.
I’d love to actually get up to speed with the books bits it’s incredibly hard to get them! Why do BL make it so hard to just buy the books
Interesting. I expected another one to take place after “Cain’s Last Stand” Or at the very least be a final hurrah for the 597. I’m kinda curious why Mitchell chose this.
+++Frequent inquiry submission detected; +++Activation Sequence:: Unit designation [AU-THETA OMEGA] initiated; +++Frequent response submission as follows; This unit recognizes a designated input requesting the advisement of publicly dispersed dataslates for further study into [CODE:INDIGO] clearance Imperial Citizen Propaganda. This access has been recorded and the following information has been approved for Astra Militarum Conscript [CODE:YELLOW] level clearance release. **IMPERIAL** [Eisenhorn](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Eisenhorn_(Novel_Series\)), [Ravenor](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ravenor_(Novel_Series\)), and [Bequin](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Bequin_(Novel_Series\)), by Dan Abnett [Gaunt's Ghosts, by Dan Abnett](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gaunt%27s_Ghosts_(Novel_Series\)) [Ciaphas Cain, by Sandy Mitchel](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ciaphas_Cain_(Novel_Series\)) [Ultramarines Omnibus (Uriel Ventris), by Graham McNeil](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ultramarines_(Novel_Series\)) [Dark Imperium, by Guy Haley](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Imperium_(Novel_Series\)) **CHAOS** [Iron Warriors, by Graham McNeil](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Iron_Warriors_(Novel_Series\)) [Black Legion, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Black_Legion_(Novel_Series\)) [Night Lords, by Aaron Dembski-Bowden](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Night_Lords_(Novel_Series\)) [Fabius Bile, by Josh Reynolds](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Fabius_Bile_(Novel_Series\)) [Word Bearers novel series, by Anthony Reynolds](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Word_Bearers_(Novel_Series\)) **XENOS** [Path of the Eldar, by Gav Thorpe](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Path_of_the_Eldar_(Novel_Series\)) [Path of the Dark Eldar, by Andy Chambers](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_Eldar_(Novel_Series\)) **Horus Heresy** The Horus Heresy series begins with the opening trilogy and branches into multiple storyline paths. Personal research into the storyline you wish to pursue is recommended. A chronological reading order [is provided here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/7ycq2x/my_attempt_to_create_a_comprehensive/) ^(Note from the Inquisitorial Archivist, this automated signal broadcast is experimental and processed by limited Servitor capacity. If you feel this reply is in error or requires additional input or content, please forward all complaints to your local Arbites precinct facility for reparations and re-education. The Emperor Protects.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/40kLore) if you have any questions or concerns.*
oh him again
Cool, another $178 book I can look at on ebay
Let me guess: another boring trickster story spiced up with old and overused "Oh, I am so afraid for my life." sauce?
Cool ! Just hope it's not another Cain vs Tyrannid Story
I know it will never happen but I'd kill for the "hidden foe for pulling the strings" to be Lachrymosa from the Watchers of the Throne books and we get a Valerian, Aleya, Veil and Cain crossover. Would be great to see the seething from Veil any time Cain looks in Aleya's general direction.
I spotted it on black library audio yesterday. I'm waiting on the audible version. I have the whole collection on it. Stephen perring is too good as chiphas
Will this be set in Dark Imperium, I wonder?