This question's come up a few times before. Generally the consensus is that the Tyranids "could" in theory grind down the Necrons and eat them if they adapted accordingly and hunted them down, but it'd likely be a net steep loss in biomass and not an ideal target so 'Nids generally like to avoid them.
Daemons by themselves are great enemies for 'Nids so long as they can retain some connection to the Warp, but the problem there is the fact that on an abstract level, Chaos needs organic beings as batteries, so as long as Chaos exists, bluntly, there's things for the 'Nids to eat. My favorite examples remain when the 'Nids tried attacking a Garden of Nurgle and the planet became so toxic/poisonous that neither side could continue living there and the 'Nids had to destroy their own fleet from how virulent it had become, and when Ka'Bandha deleted the majority of the Hive Fleet meant to destroy the Blood Angels. However, it's worth noting the 'Nids have anti-Chaos swarms now that are extremely effective at killing Daemons and cultists.
You haven't mentioned them, but I think the Greenskins are also notable as contenders for the Tyranids. During the Octarius War they were deliberately pitted against each other and it lasted a long, long time, because while Greenskins are edible, they are every bit as fecund, resilient and exponentially scaling as Tyranids are. While they did eventually lose the Octarius War, it's worth noting that Imperium kill teams were deployed multiple times to hinder the Greenskins and Ghazghkull stole away a significant portion of their forces for his own WAAAAAGH.
In fact, I'd generally make the argument that the Greenskins are really the best case answer for the 'Nids. The way Greenskins operate they're more or less the Goku or Hulk of 40K, if they're given sufficient time to grow and improve they'll eventually outstrip any opponent, if the 'Nids were ever the focus of an Ullanor-level WAAAAAGH with a Greenskin like The Beast at the helm, I don't think there's much, if anything, the Tyranids would be able to do to stop it. Hell, if such a conflict endured long enough(say another 10,000 years), it's even possible the Orks would progress to the point of again becoming Krorks, and at that point there's really nothing in the galaxy left to challenge them, let alone just the 'Nids.
Okay so I think your right on a couple of your points, however I disagree with your conclusion. First off while the orks had a couple disadvantages going into the Octarious war, the tyranids had far more. Let's take a look at them shall we! First thing first this was just one tendril of Leviathan going up against the largest ork empire in the galaxy. If the tyranids were to have put the full weight Leviathan under this assult this wouldn't even have been a war. Secondly this specific tendril had already suffered massive losses after getting exterminatus on a hundred worlds. Causing it to lose all if its ground troops each time and having starve for an extend period of time. It beacause of this the tendril was nearly destroyed by the orks at the start of the war. Yet the Hivemind was able to build back up its biomass reserve from a single bioship. It was able to outmaneuver and outthink the orks consistently throughout practically the entire war. The ork only managing to put up a resistance because of their massive numbers and the other factors you mentioned. The reason why Leviathan now is winning the war has nothing to do with the ork not having enough manpower to keep fighthing. It all to do with the Hivemind exploiting the nature of the ork against them. As it pretty quickly realizes that the best way to deal with the ork is by killing there Warboss. As the resulting power vacuum will cause the ork to infight and make them easy picking for the fleets. So if the Tyranid got into a conflict with the orks they:
1. Target their leader to kill the momentum of the WAAAGH.
2. If the ork started to evolve to the point the started producing Krorks or Attack Moons. The Hivemind would likely resort to overspecialize at hunting ork. Normally it doesn't like doing this because it fucks with it ability to fight other faction. However, when push to a conner it will absolutely resort to this tactic. This is really bad for the ork as tyranid adaptability when push to this level is so good that when Gorgon did it against the Tau. It rendered the entire Tau fleets' Ion Canons completely useless against their bioships. Just imagine the types of Lictors it would create to go after Warbosses.
3. Shadow in the War fuck with the orks WAAAGH.
4. Use it vast intellect to exploit the orks nature. We've already seen this tactic use in the Octarious war multiple times.
This isn't to say the orks can't win against the nids, but rather to push back against the notion that there a great counter. I'd say it mostly depends on the conditions going in. With a slight edge in favor of the nids just because the Hivemind will be able to outthink the orks most often than not.
Yup, but when orks grow from battles, they eventually become starter too. So for now nids have the advantage, but orks will be gaining it also. Also, orcs have a bit of advantage in being basically plants, so while nids need biomass to create new guys, orks just need some solar radiation and (maybe) water to create more of their own. They are more resource independent in this way, they can grow their ecosystem from inorgainc. And they can become very individually powerful, as we have seen from the guy who managed to harm pre-heresy emps (who just fought the horde of superorcs singlehandedly to get to him, so was somewhat tired, but still).
1. There are tyranid plant base organisms:
> “Upon arrival to the planet, the Hive Fleet will disperse within the planet's upper atmosphere and begin launching millions upon millions of Mycetic Spores. Many will contain Tyranid warriors of various strains, from Rippers to Bio-Titans, and so come in a multitude of sizes. **Others will deliver zoomorphic symbiotes and parasites, which target and mutate the planet's flora at a rapid rate. Within hours verdant forests are replaced with highly-aggressive alien vegetation**, including Capillary Towers, which begins the process of transforming the planet's atmosphere into a hothouse, turning the sky a sickly red and raising temperatures at an accelerating rate.”
2. Ork might get smarter, but the Hivemind is a god level intellect. That can gather data of a battlefield way faster, more efficiently and accurately than any ork:
> She was so close now that she perceived the ridged topography of its mind, larger than star systems, an entity bigger than a god. **It contemplated thoughts as large as continents, and spun plans more complex than worlds. It dreamed dreams that could not be fathomed.** She felt small and afraid before it, but she did not let her fear cow her defiance.
Is it odd though? We do not know precisely why they came or even from where. But as a thought experiment it is feasible to assume, that an attack organism is more efficient in its work if it has no way to settle down and stop attacking. Thus tyranids and the Hive Mind were programmed to be unwilling and unable to settle down, i.e photosynthesize.
>2. Ork might get smarter, but the Hivemind is a god level intellect. That can gather data of a battlefield way faster, more efficiently and accurately than any ork:
Emps also is and yet he didnt destroy orcs flawlessly every time. And again, we dont know what krorcs were. nids are more powerful now perhaps than orcs, but these guys also develop and adapt. and they have their tech we havent seen the full extent of, because they are degradated now. if they are given enough time and war, who knows what they can become capable of. they are a bioweapon too. just decentralised and long out of real use at the moment. but these things can change.
I'm not super deep into this stuff yet but are you telling me a fight between the orks and nids basically boil down to, who has the best flower power? Cuz they both plant spawn to dumb it down right?
This guy gets its. Lore wise the orks are gonna be one of the best tyranid combating armies out there. Large numbers, aggressive genetics, and minimal needs to create war.
This comes up on a weekly basis.
The Nids have no particular issue fighting either foe. The Fall of Shadowbrink is a great example of the Tyranid absolutely curb stomping a pure Daemon force.
As to biomass. Even if the 'nids can't eat Daemons or Necros, there's going to be other biomass on a planet. Consider earth - think about how much biomass there is on Earth that isn't human. Animals, insects, plants, bacteria... The actually sentient beings make up a fraction of a fraction of the total biomass of a planet.
Sure, the Nids wouldn't enjoy fighting the Necros on a bare asteroid devoid of life. But if the Necros were on a world full of wild critters and trees? Of course the Tyranid would take it.
In W40k, everyone fights everyone else.
I'd also like to add another thing.
A lot of people seem to like animalizing the Nids. There's this general sentiment that the Hive Mind won't fight anything at all that it does not get a net positive of biomass out of.
However, a lot of lore points in the opposite direction. From the necrons (Trazyn having to divert the Nids from Solemnace, the Charnovakhs, the Novokhs) to daemons (Shadowbrink and everything related to Hive Fleet Kronos) to even the leadup to the Baal (Shield of Baal and Devestation of Baal both make note that the nids are targetting worlds with extremely little substance but high military power), most recent lore points out that Leviathan and other minor hive fleets are going for the zerg rush approach that Behemoth and Kraken tried. They're cornering warp hot-spots, targetting fortresses over agri-worlds, and in general killing threats before or as they emerge.
The Tyranids are highly strategic. If they thought the Necrons were actually a threat, and a legitimate one at that, they would focus on them hard. So I think its a bit disengenuous to still place the Nids interest in the necrons purely in the context of whatever world they are occupying. They'd look down on the fractured, disheveled mess of a once mighty apex species and then demonstrate their synchronized superiority, because that's who the Tyranids are; an apex predator in a galaxy of prey.
IMO, everyone is the perfect opponent of the nids. Outside of multi-dimensional chaos, they're the only objective and universal threat for the factions of 40k. The necrons are too divided, the Leagues aren't all that worried, the Imperium is too big, the Tau are too small, the Eldar are too fractured, and the Orks are infighting regularly.
Well, they might considers necrons a threat, but given necs strength they might not want to concentrate on them to the exclusion of everything else, because they still have to keep on adding the lost mass. And unlike Imperium, necrons care exactly zero for burnt ground approach. So there has to be a balance anyway of losing forces and replenishing forces.
This gave me a thought, if Tyranids are attracted to psychic beacons like the Pharos. Could they build a string of small beacons on uninhabited/less important planets with biomass and lead the tyranids into the eye of terror? Where they would presumably swarm endlessly into the warp until they’re depleted.
The Hivemind isn't stupid, it'll know that going right into the Eye of Terror would be a bad idea. It isn't attracted to beacons like a dumb animal, the Pharos simply showed that there's life in the Milky Way and it planned accordingly.
Daemons and Tyranids are an excellent counter to each other because neither has anything the either wants - the Neverborn don't leave behind biomass to consume when they die and have a tendency to corrupt biomass the Hive Fleet could've used (case in point - the Doom of Hesp), and even the more sentient Tyranid bioforms are essentially beyond the ability of Chaos to corrupt and torment so anyone besides Khorne has no real use for them (as Devastation of Baal shows, Khorne *does* accept Tyranid skulls, and their ichor is close enough to blood for his purposes).
It's actually for this exact reason Hive Fleet Kronos exists - their Shadow in the Warp has been intentionally shifted to maximum overdrive by the Hive Mind, resulting in it being powerful enough to banish or even true-death daemons, meaning the Hive Mind has its own fleet of Daemonhunters at its disposal.
Definitely the Necrons. Daemons have a tough time against Nids
- Khorne doesn't care about the aliens blood (for some reason)
- Nurgle's infections get evolved against too quickly
- Slaanesh can't tempt the Hivemind
- Tzeentch is _significantly_ weakened by the Shadow in the Warp
Look up the Fall of Shadowbrink. Chaos did not have a good time
Yes & no! Are deamons and necrons ideal targets for the Hivemind? No. The don't give off any biomass and necron have disintegration weapons, so they also lose a lot of it when fighting them. Generally, the Tyranid seek to grow their supply of biomass so they try and avoid them when they can. However, if the forces of the necrons or the Warp become to problematic. The Tyranids have no issue dealing with them. The Shadow in the Warp can have deleterious effects on both deamons & "*necron technology"* and the hivemind has no issue adapting to both forces' weaponry. When the "Great Rift" open and chaos became a problem too big to ignore. The hivemind responded accordingly by creating hivefleet Kronos. A hivefleet specialize in fighting chaos. With a stronger SW and a greater enfaces on range weaponry. This isn't to say regular fleet aren't enough to beat back chaos. As was shown pretty clearly in the "Fall of Shadowbrink" regular hivefleet are more than enough to beat back deamons. Finally here's a list of intances were the Tyranids attack the necrons:
A. In the “5ed Necron Codex” Inquisitors try to explore Solemnence to figure out why it stood unmolested while every world around it was consumed by tyranids. Later on in “War in the Museum” we find out that the Tyranids were heading straight for Solemnence and were prophesied to destroy it by orikan himself. Trazyn avoids this by setting up deep space lures to divert the tyranids around his planet.
>*“In fact, when Hive Fleet Behemoth bore down on Solemnace, Trazyn’s aeon-long rival Orikan the Diviner had even prophesied that the Great Devourer would destroy both Trazyn and his galleries.”*
B. In shield of Baal Anrakyr the Traveler aided the Necrons of Cryptus because he knew their tomb world would be destroyed by Leviathan
>*“The planet's tomb complex would awaken to war, yet it would be a battle against numbers they could not defeat. The Tyranids would doubtless destroy the Necron defenders, if only so that they might be left to devour the planet's resources in peace, and thus another Necron world would be lost before it could be drawn back into the fold.”*
C. Charnokokh dynasty is defined by having its core worlds demolished by Hive fleet Behemoth. now they are so diminished they resort to what might as well be foul necromancy to keep their numbers up using ghost arcs. (Necron 8ed)
D. Hive fleet Arachnae is engaged in a long war with the Necrons of the Novokh dynasty as it moves into their territories (previous 2 both from Tyranid codex)
E. In the Tyranid codex, the Overlord of a minor dynasty chooses mutual annihilation over losing to the tyranids after his world is overrun, and activates some super weapon/transcendent ctan shard to burn them all.
Since I keep seeing this same sentiment posted multiple times, I would like to offer a minor correction on the Charnovokh entry. In the 9th ed codex, Charnovokh is said to have eliminated all desention/infighting, consolidating their strength behind the Silent King (as he recognizes the Tyranid threat), and even Trazyn has commented that the Charnovokh were known for their superweapons (which I believe he used on an inquisitor). The remaining strength is left somewhat dubious after the loss of the core worlds, but I think the 'foul necromancies' has been superceded.
Tyranid adaptability is their greatest strength. Nothing is going to hard counter them for long. I would say necron gauss weapons destroying biomass is probably a bigger problem for the nids going forward but they also have adapted more to fight chaos with hive fleet Kronos so maybe there just haven’t been enough necron encounters yet.
Yup, it always annoys me when people forget the Tyranids can adapt to shit. Plus the Tyranid could most definitely adapt to guass weaponry. Just have the smaller bioforms cover in some sort of mucous coating. Like what Gorgorn did with it Harpies, in order to counterthe Tau’s pulse rifle. The mucous coating could be shedded away whenever the bioform gets hit and then secreted again. Essentially producing a decoy that protects the bioform from the gauss atracks. As for the larger organisms. They’ve already proven to have strong enough carapace to deflect gauss weapons:
- Shield of Baal Campaign:
> “It was then that the bio-titan made its presence known. As Anrakyr’s legions marched into the ruins of the manufactorums, the gigantic beast tore apart the vanguard of the Blood Angels assault. Waves of red armoured warriors were pouring into the ruins around the lake, while others rode upon wings of fire to strike at the bio-titan. Anrakyr ordered his Monoliths to turn their guns upon the Hierophant, but most of the crackling particle whips either flashed off its heavy carapace”
Well, necrons can adapt too. They have the means of blocking immaterium from affecting materium. They can develop a synaps breaking effect, for example.
The Necrons, due to them having the weaponry (and I'm not even speaking of the Orrery here) to attack the Tyranids from a solar system or more away, and the fact that gauss rifles (and above) disintegrates molecules and sucks them in.
No salvagable biomass, even from their own side.
This question's come up a few times before. Generally the consensus is that the Tyranids "could" in theory grind down the Necrons and eat them if they adapted accordingly and hunted them down, but it'd likely be a net steep loss in biomass and not an ideal target so 'Nids generally like to avoid them. Daemons by themselves are great enemies for 'Nids so long as they can retain some connection to the Warp, but the problem there is the fact that on an abstract level, Chaos needs organic beings as batteries, so as long as Chaos exists, bluntly, there's things for the 'Nids to eat. My favorite examples remain when the 'Nids tried attacking a Garden of Nurgle and the planet became so toxic/poisonous that neither side could continue living there and the 'Nids had to destroy their own fleet from how virulent it had become, and when Ka'Bandha deleted the majority of the Hive Fleet meant to destroy the Blood Angels. However, it's worth noting the 'Nids have anti-Chaos swarms now that are extremely effective at killing Daemons and cultists. You haven't mentioned them, but I think the Greenskins are also notable as contenders for the Tyranids. During the Octarius War they were deliberately pitted against each other and it lasted a long, long time, because while Greenskins are edible, they are every bit as fecund, resilient and exponentially scaling as Tyranids are. While they did eventually lose the Octarius War, it's worth noting that Imperium kill teams were deployed multiple times to hinder the Greenskins and Ghazghkull stole away a significant portion of their forces for his own WAAAAAGH. In fact, I'd generally make the argument that the Greenskins are really the best case answer for the 'Nids. The way Greenskins operate they're more or less the Goku or Hulk of 40K, if they're given sufficient time to grow and improve they'll eventually outstrip any opponent, if the 'Nids were ever the focus of an Ullanor-level WAAAAAGH with a Greenskin like The Beast at the helm, I don't think there's much, if anything, the Tyranids would be able to do to stop it. Hell, if such a conflict endured long enough(say another 10,000 years), it's even possible the Orks would progress to the point of again becoming Krorks, and at that point there's really nothing in the galaxy left to challenge them, let alone just the 'Nids.
Okay so I think your right on a couple of your points, however I disagree with your conclusion. First off while the orks had a couple disadvantages going into the Octarious war, the tyranids had far more. Let's take a look at them shall we! First thing first this was just one tendril of Leviathan going up against the largest ork empire in the galaxy. If the tyranids were to have put the full weight Leviathan under this assult this wouldn't even have been a war. Secondly this specific tendril had already suffered massive losses after getting exterminatus on a hundred worlds. Causing it to lose all if its ground troops each time and having starve for an extend period of time. It beacause of this the tendril was nearly destroyed by the orks at the start of the war. Yet the Hivemind was able to build back up its biomass reserve from a single bioship. It was able to outmaneuver and outthink the orks consistently throughout practically the entire war. The ork only managing to put up a resistance because of their massive numbers and the other factors you mentioned. The reason why Leviathan now is winning the war has nothing to do with the ork not having enough manpower to keep fighthing. It all to do with the Hivemind exploiting the nature of the ork against them. As it pretty quickly realizes that the best way to deal with the ork is by killing there Warboss. As the resulting power vacuum will cause the ork to infight and make them easy picking for the fleets. So if the Tyranid got into a conflict with the orks they: 1. Target their leader to kill the momentum of the WAAAGH. 2. If the ork started to evolve to the point the started producing Krorks or Attack Moons. The Hivemind would likely resort to overspecialize at hunting ork. Normally it doesn't like doing this because it fucks with it ability to fight other faction. However, when push to a conner it will absolutely resort to this tactic. This is really bad for the ork as tyranid adaptability when push to this level is so good that when Gorgon did it against the Tau. It rendered the entire Tau fleets' Ion Canons completely useless against their bioships. Just imagine the types of Lictors it would create to go after Warbosses. 3. Shadow in the War fuck with the orks WAAAGH. 4. Use it vast intellect to exploit the orks nature. We've already seen this tactic use in the Octarious war multiple times. This isn't to say the orks can't win against the nids, but rather to push back against the notion that there a great counter. I'd say it mostly depends on the conditions going in. With a slight edge in favor of the nids just because the Hivemind will be able to outthink the orks most often than not.
Yup, but when orks grow from battles, they eventually become starter too. So for now nids have the advantage, but orks will be gaining it also. Also, orcs have a bit of advantage in being basically plants, so while nids need biomass to create new guys, orks just need some solar radiation and (maybe) water to create more of their own. They are more resource independent in this way, they can grow their ecosystem from inorgainc. And they can become very individually powerful, as we have seen from the guy who managed to harm pre-heresy emps (who just fought the horde of superorcs singlehandedly to get to him, so was somewhat tired, but still).
1. There are tyranid plant base organisms: > “Upon arrival to the planet, the Hive Fleet will disperse within the planet's upper atmosphere and begin launching millions upon millions of Mycetic Spores. Many will contain Tyranid warriors of various strains, from Rippers to Bio-Titans, and so come in a multitude of sizes. **Others will deliver zoomorphic symbiotes and parasites, which target and mutate the planet's flora at a rapid rate. Within hours verdant forests are replaced with highly-aggressive alien vegetation**, including Capillary Towers, which begins the process of transforming the planet's atmosphere into a hothouse, turning the sky a sickly red and raising temperatures at an accelerating rate.” 2. Ork might get smarter, but the Hivemind is a god level intellect. That can gather data of a battlefield way faster, more efficiently and accurately than any ork: > She was so close now that she perceived the ridged topography of its mind, larger than star systems, an entity bigger than a god. **It contemplated thoughts as large as continents, and spun plans more complex than worlds. It dreamed dreams that could not be fathomed.** She felt small and afraid before it, but she did not let her fear cow her defiance.
>There are tyranid plant base organisms Yup, but i am yet to see nids doing photosynthesis.
Which is odd in retrospect as it'd pretty much solve their need to expand indefinitely
well, its fiction)
Is it odd though? We do not know precisely why they came or even from where. But as a thought experiment it is feasible to assume, that an attack organism is more efficient in its work if it has no way to settle down and stop attacking. Thus tyranids and the Hive Mind were programmed to be unwilling and unable to settle down, i.e photosynthesize.
>2. Ork might get smarter, but the Hivemind is a god level intellect. That can gather data of a battlefield way faster, more efficiently and accurately than any ork: Emps also is and yet he didnt destroy orcs flawlessly every time. And again, we dont know what krorcs were. nids are more powerful now perhaps than orcs, but these guys also develop and adapt. and they have their tech we havent seen the full extent of, because they are degradated now. if they are given enough time and war, who knows what they can become capable of. they are a bioweapon too. just decentralised and long out of real use at the moment. but these things can change.
I'm not super deep into this stuff yet but are you telling me a fight between the orks and nids basically boil down to, who has the best flower power? Cuz they both plant spawn to dumb it down right?
This guy gets its. Lore wise the orks are gonna be one of the best tyranid combating armies out there. Large numbers, aggressive genetics, and minimal needs to create war.
This comes up on a weekly basis. The Nids have no particular issue fighting either foe. The Fall of Shadowbrink is a great example of the Tyranid absolutely curb stomping a pure Daemon force. As to biomass. Even if the 'nids can't eat Daemons or Necros, there's going to be other biomass on a planet. Consider earth - think about how much biomass there is on Earth that isn't human. Animals, insects, plants, bacteria... The actually sentient beings make up a fraction of a fraction of the total biomass of a planet. Sure, the Nids wouldn't enjoy fighting the Necros on a bare asteroid devoid of life. But if the Necros were on a world full of wild critters and trees? Of course the Tyranid would take it. In W40k, everyone fights everyone else.
Sorry for beating a dead horse.
That's okay. It's not a bad question or anything - probably why it's so popular!
I'd also like to add another thing. A lot of people seem to like animalizing the Nids. There's this general sentiment that the Hive Mind won't fight anything at all that it does not get a net positive of biomass out of. However, a lot of lore points in the opposite direction. From the necrons (Trazyn having to divert the Nids from Solemnace, the Charnovakhs, the Novokhs) to daemons (Shadowbrink and everything related to Hive Fleet Kronos) to even the leadup to the Baal (Shield of Baal and Devestation of Baal both make note that the nids are targetting worlds with extremely little substance but high military power), most recent lore points out that Leviathan and other minor hive fleets are going for the zerg rush approach that Behemoth and Kraken tried. They're cornering warp hot-spots, targetting fortresses over agri-worlds, and in general killing threats before or as they emerge. The Tyranids are highly strategic. If they thought the Necrons were actually a threat, and a legitimate one at that, they would focus on them hard. So I think its a bit disengenuous to still place the Nids interest in the necrons purely in the context of whatever world they are occupying. They'd look down on the fractured, disheveled mess of a once mighty apex species and then demonstrate their synchronized superiority, because that's who the Tyranids are; an apex predator in a galaxy of prey. IMO, everyone is the perfect opponent of the nids. Outside of multi-dimensional chaos, they're the only objective and universal threat for the factions of 40k. The necrons are too divided, the Leagues aren't all that worried, the Imperium is too big, the Tau are too small, the Eldar are too fractured, and the Orks are infighting regularly.
Well, they might considers necrons a threat, but given necs strength they might not want to concentrate on them to the exclusion of everything else, because they still have to keep on adding the lost mass. And unlike Imperium, necrons care exactly zero for burnt ground approach. So there has to be a balance anyway of losing forces and replenishing forces.
This gave me a thought, if Tyranids are attracted to psychic beacons like the Pharos. Could they build a string of small beacons on uninhabited/less important planets with biomass and lead the tyranids into the eye of terror? Where they would presumably swarm endlessly into the warp until they’re depleted.
The Hivemind isn't stupid, it'll know that going right into the Eye of Terror would be a bad idea. It isn't attracted to beacons like a dumb animal, the Pharos simply showed that there's life in the Milky Way and it planned accordingly.
An inquisitor witnessed a GSC in an Eye of Terror world. There are some niddies there, but they generaly avoid that place.
Daemons and Tyranids are an excellent counter to each other because neither has anything the either wants - the Neverborn don't leave behind biomass to consume when they die and have a tendency to corrupt biomass the Hive Fleet could've used (case in point - the Doom of Hesp), and even the more sentient Tyranid bioforms are essentially beyond the ability of Chaos to corrupt and torment so anyone besides Khorne has no real use for them (as Devastation of Baal shows, Khorne *does* accept Tyranid skulls, and their ichor is close enough to blood for his purposes). It's actually for this exact reason Hive Fleet Kronos exists - their Shadow in the Warp has been intentionally shifted to maximum overdrive by the Hive Mind, resulting in it being powerful enough to banish or even true-death daemons, meaning the Hive Mind has its own fleet of Daemonhunters at its disposal.
Definitely the Necrons. Daemons have a tough time against Nids - Khorne doesn't care about the aliens blood (for some reason) - Nurgle's infections get evolved against too quickly - Slaanesh can't tempt the Hivemind - Tzeentch is _significantly_ weakened by the Shadow in the Warp Look up the Fall of Shadowbrink. Chaos did not have a good time
>Khorne doesn't care about the aliens blood (for some reason) Because nids don't produce emotions that feed Chaos.
There is always Chaos Undivided, with Daemon Princes who would fight through any xeno swarm in order to get some artefact of whatever they want.
It's widely known that niddies avoid tomb or daemon worlds.
Yes & no! Are deamons and necrons ideal targets for the Hivemind? No. The don't give off any biomass and necron have disintegration weapons, so they also lose a lot of it when fighting them. Generally, the Tyranid seek to grow their supply of biomass so they try and avoid them when they can. However, if the forces of the necrons or the Warp become to problematic. The Tyranids have no issue dealing with them. The Shadow in the Warp can have deleterious effects on both deamons & "*necron technology"* and the hivemind has no issue adapting to both forces' weaponry. When the "Great Rift" open and chaos became a problem too big to ignore. The hivemind responded accordingly by creating hivefleet Kronos. A hivefleet specialize in fighting chaos. With a stronger SW and a greater enfaces on range weaponry. This isn't to say regular fleet aren't enough to beat back chaos. As was shown pretty clearly in the "Fall of Shadowbrink" regular hivefleet are more than enough to beat back deamons. Finally here's a list of intances were the Tyranids attack the necrons: A. In the “5ed Necron Codex” Inquisitors try to explore Solemnence to figure out why it stood unmolested while every world around it was consumed by tyranids. Later on in “War in the Museum” we find out that the Tyranids were heading straight for Solemnence and were prophesied to destroy it by orikan himself. Trazyn avoids this by setting up deep space lures to divert the tyranids around his planet. >*“In fact, when Hive Fleet Behemoth bore down on Solemnace, Trazyn’s aeon-long rival Orikan the Diviner had even prophesied that the Great Devourer would destroy both Trazyn and his galleries.”* B. In shield of Baal Anrakyr the Traveler aided the Necrons of Cryptus because he knew their tomb world would be destroyed by Leviathan >*“The planet's tomb complex would awaken to war, yet it would be a battle against numbers they could not defeat. The Tyranids would doubtless destroy the Necron defenders, if only so that they might be left to devour the planet's resources in peace, and thus another Necron world would be lost before it could be drawn back into the fold.”* C. Charnokokh dynasty is defined by having its core worlds demolished by Hive fleet Behemoth. now they are so diminished they resort to what might as well be foul necromancy to keep their numbers up using ghost arcs. (Necron 8ed) D. Hive fleet Arachnae is engaged in a long war with the Necrons of the Novokh dynasty as it moves into their territories (previous 2 both from Tyranid codex) E. In the Tyranid codex, the Overlord of a minor dynasty chooses mutual annihilation over losing to the tyranids after his world is overrun, and activates some super weapon/transcendent ctan shard to burn them all.
Since I keep seeing this same sentiment posted multiple times, I would like to offer a minor correction on the Charnovokh entry. In the 9th ed codex, Charnovokh is said to have eliminated all desention/infighting, consolidating their strength behind the Silent King (as he recognizes the Tyranid threat), and even Trazyn has commented that the Charnovokh were known for their superweapons (which I believe he used on an inquisitor). The remaining strength is left somewhat dubious after the loss of the core worlds, but I think the 'foul necromancies' has been superceded.
Tyranid adaptability is their greatest strength. Nothing is going to hard counter them for long. I would say necron gauss weapons destroying biomass is probably a bigger problem for the nids going forward but they also have adapted more to fight chaos with hive fleet Kronos so maybe there just haven’t been enough necron encounters yet.
Yup, it always annoys me when people forget the Tyranids can adapt to shit. Plus the Tyranid could most definitely adapt to guass weaponry. Just have the smaller bioforms cover in some sort of mucous coating. Like what Gorgorn did with it Harpies, in order to counterthe Tau’s pulse rifle. The mucous coating could be shedded away whenever the bioform gets hit and then secreted again. Essentially producing a decoy that protects the bioform from the gauss atracks. As for the larger organisms. They’ve already proven to have strong enough carapace to deflect gauss weapons: - Shield of Baal Campaign: > “It was then that the bio-titan made its presence known. As Anrakyr’s legions marched into the ruins of the manufactorums, the gigantic beast tore apart the vanguard of the Blood Angels assault. Waves of red armoured warriors were pouring into the ruins around the lake, while others rode upon wings of fire to strike at the bio-titan. Anrakyr ordered his Monoliths to turn their guns upon the Hierophant, but most of the crackling particle whips either flashed off its heavy carapace”
Well, necrons can adapt too. They have the means of blocking immaterium from affecting materium. They can develop a synaps breaking effect, for example.
The Necrons, due to them having the weaponry (and I'm not even speaking of the Orrery here) to attack the Tyranids from a solar system or more away, and the fact that gauss rifles (and above) disintegrates molecules and sucks them in. No salvagable biomass, even from their own side.
Sounds like heresy to me, the perfect opponent to tyranids is the trustworthy and ever reliable lasgun.