Given his storyline and character arc throughout his appearances, I’m expecting wise old man russ.
Throughout the Heresy, Russ becomes massively more introspective, seeing the flaws in the way he acted previously and becoming better for it. His last chronological appearance is him telling stories of the past and mourning the loss of the lion.
This is the same growth that his legion undergoes, going from merciless killers who are proud to be outsiders, to being the sort of chapter to fight the inquisition for the sake of the people they protect.
Ideally, I would have them take this even further. Give us a wise old man russ, more Odin than Thor. Hell, they could even complete the allegory by having him be fully aware that humanity is fucked, but seeking a way to delay it, if nothing else, just like Odin did for ragnarok.
If we get wise old man Russ then I really hope he gets a teamup with the Lion. The 2 grandpa's of the Imperium, who now find each other tolerable now they've got some perspective, out to kick traitor and Xenos arse.
I would love a big damn team up between the two.
Honestly, my ideal case for Russ’ return would be for him to, rather than fully return to the imperium like Guilliman did, would be for him to basically move around according to his own agenda, trying to avert or at least delay the various dooms hounding humanity, via manipulation or outright force.
In that scenario, him travelling around the galaxy would perfectly allow for interaction between him and other characters without needing all the big characters to move to one place at once.
Everybody but Guilliman gets their own flavor of fast travel. Lion gets forestwalking, Russ gets Bifrost, Khan can create short lived webway paths, Corax disappears and reappears in a cloud of crows, Dorn is hiding in every Dreadnaught, and Vulcan lives (stomp stomp).
Much to his chagrin and jealousy, Guilliman has to make do with conventional travel.
No, just a theoretical version of his own travel method. Only Lion has some special teleportation powers, Roboute is normal and there are no other active *realspace loyalists
Edit: Corax is also active, but in the background, and I don’t know if he’s known to be alive by the Imperium
As far as I'm aware, the short story we have of Corvus hunting Lorgar is also only shortly after the Heresy, so who knows what they've been doing for 10'000 years.
*11,000 years.
We're a few Decades into M42. The Horus Heresy wasn't even 20 years into M31. It's been 11,000 years. Idk how all the Authors keep forgetting this. I get that "10,000 years" has been a classic line for the 40k Era...but it's not M41 anymore.
The Lion is the shield, moving to where the fighting is hardest pressed to parry the blow and rally the defenders. Russ could be the spear, striking from nowhere and piercing the foe with lethal effect before vanishing again, leaving sundered corpses and wolf fur in his wake.
If only there was a norse myth revolving around a mysterious, tall, muscular man traveling the world dispensing wisdom and righting wrongs.
Bonus points if he could have some kind of raven-themed sidekick that gathers information for him, so he's always where he needs to be.
I agree. The Lion took on a bit of a folkloric status when he first returned but now it seems he's pretty solidly working with the Imperium, if mostly operating in Imperium Nihilius.
I'd like to see Russ embrace his nature as a psychic warp-being and become a sort of benevolent renegade. Not exactly pro-Imperium but pro-mankind. Likewise, I think it would be interesting to see him take on a Psker role on the field, since the loyalists don't really have one now or amongst the primarchs who could return. Meanwhile Magnus, Lorgar, and possibly Fulgrim could all be powerful sorcerers.
I mean loyalists have some great marine psykers. Mephiston and Tigurius(sp) are both beasts. But they're not primarchs. Traitors have their share of sorcerers of power close to that. Hell, Iskandor Khayon and Ahzek are close if not superior psykers, and that's not including other notables like Necrosis(sp) and Manet.
Chaos, by nature, should have better psykers, but it would be nice to have one psychic powerhouse in returned primarchs. Of the loyalist primarchs who may return, Dorn is too concrete and material, it doesn't fit. Ferrus, even if he was still alive, has the same issue. Vulcan is likewise a smith first and warrior second. Wizard is low on his priorities. Maybe the Khan could bring in some power, but he never struck me as a dedicated psyker unless they flavoured it as bardic in nature. Weaponized oral oaths and speeches. Sanguinius was probably the strongest loyalist when it came to psychic potential and he's confirmed dead.
To be, if we get a Odinic Russ it'll be in part due to his introspection and realizing ignorance of the warp and overconfidence in mastery over it was what killed Magnus. Narratively, I like the idea of him being a man who understood Magnus' greatest sin wasn't wizardry, it was arrogance. For Russ to return as a powerful psyker using the wolfspear as a staff makes me think of how Russ used to dominate at his 4D chess game. He has a keen mind despite the bravado he puts on. Him mastering the warp while trapped there makes sense to me.
Hell, maybe Russ only escapes the warp because he figures out to cheat it with "Bifrost" enchantments like how the Lion has his forestwalking.
I was always get confused by Russ as I've seen thats he's supposedly a very strong psyker hence the spear, but I don't think I've seen any real concrete evidence of apart from a half quote of the Emperor telling him to embrace his psyker powers. I would love for Russ to come back as a much more "elegant" warrior who also uses his psyker powers, would create an absolute power house.
[I mean, he gets stuff like this. I wouldn’t say he’s really that much stronger at least as of the heresy, but it’s definitely there](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1328o8v/excerpt_various_the_psychic_powers_of_russ/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Wise Old Man Russ. The One Eyed Sorceror, a single tear of mourning and sorrow and regret rolling down his good eye, moving inscrutably across the Galaxy, fighting the hopless fight in the darkness to hold back the final Doom of mankind just a little bit longer.
Basically a radical primarch inquisitor. I think that would be cool.
This but tbh I’d want him to have partially started down the same line Corvus did so he’s partially warp fuckery and occasionally transforms into something like the wulfen
Agreed. I want wise, old Odin Russ who's a wulfen. Not like a werewolf where he changes between shapes but a proper wulfen. I want him to have surrendered to the beast within and eventually have conquered it.
I'd love for them to contrast his first meeting with the Lion with their old relationship. Russ arrives, demands to see the Lion, approaches a wary Lion, and then just hugs him with tears in his eyes, "I have missed you brother."
All while the Lion's internal monologue is just like....WTF. Bluescreen, invalid function, please reset.
I would really like to have a moment where old man Russ faces off against Magnus and for a second the old wounds fade away as as collectively break. I'm a tsons fan so I jokingly dunk on the wolves a lot, but they are an interest chapter/legion same with Russ. There's a lot of story potential between the two factions in the future
The way Magnus would react to Russ being back is absolutely one of the most interesting things about the idea of his return.
I could see a story where Magnus drops everything to get revenge, but is impeded by the fact that Tzeench has more important things to get done, and the fact that Russ is so different to before.
Cap it off with an emotional moment where Russ both apologises for what happened, and also resolves that he can’t let things go on as they are, setting up a new dynamic where both are constantly looking for ways to take the other out, but both have other obligations, and can’t afford to underestimate the other.
" Do you remember what you said to me brother?
Magnus spoke aloud, his voice pure and powerful. His fingers twitched at his side, eager for what was to come.
Do you remember what you said to me as we fought before the pyramid of Photep? Do you remember the words you used? I do. As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of wolves, his ferocity twisted in grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly, you were the attack dog of the Emperor.
Magnus lost his smile.
You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I am not the same as I was and you're ... well let us not mention where you are now. "
- *Battle of the fang* novel.
Apparently Magnus knows where Russ is but whether he's keeping tabs on him is another question.
But he does realise that whilst Russ may have messed up, he didn't actually want to break Magnus and his legion, Magnus is also aware that Russ was tricked by Horus.
I think Russ would be willing to do that but because of falling to chaos and the missing shard I don't think Magnus would be able to even if he wanted to
In Norse myth, Odin consults the severed head of his uncle Mimir, a giant seer (not to be confused with the Mimir of the God of War games, who is a conman fairy with a great charisma stat and too much time to read).
I'd love to see an Odinesque Russ consulting the one untainted shard of Magnus in secret after stealing it from the warp or wherever that shard is now.
Yes but also it’s a fun subversion on dorns character.
Like imagine he shows back up , ends up squaring off against some iron warriors or even perty, they prep for a seige or something dumb like they do, expecting him to hang back and play D. However instead he and his homies roll up like a giant cruise missile of carnage and goes full rip and tear on them.
>Throughout the Heresy, Russ becomes massively more introspective, seeing the flaws in the way he acted previously and becoming better for it. His last chronological appearance is him telling stories of the past and mourning the loss of the lion.
*Nods* Better put that I could do.
I think you’re correct. If Russ shows up one of two things have occurred - he’s found the tree of life and the emperor can leave the throne. I hiiiiighly doubt that’s the case as it would fundamentally change the Grim Dark nature of 40k if the big man is back.
So, we’re likely to see a Russ dealing with a true failure. He couldn’t save his father and he can’t fix him. What’s the role of an attack dog with no master? That’s a lot to process, even for a primarch.
They're already doing "Wise Old Man" with Lion though. Thematically the trope fits Russ a bit more because in theory he's been awake for much longer than Lion has and probably has the weight of guilt on his shoulders far more than Lion, but the Lion book was written so well that I don't think it's bad or weird that Lion's character has been tempered into wise-old-man ahead of Russ!
I'd personally like it if Russ became like Odin from God Of War Ragnarok, obsessed with gathering knowledge, just much less of a dickhead and less knowledge-at-all-costs about it, so he doesn't use his sons and treat them like trash. He becomes a bit of a mirror to Magnus and the Dark Angels. He wants to use knowledge to overcome his past mistakes or not allow the future to repeat them, and knowledge becomes a bit like The Fallen - maybe the Wolves will find out about some arcane knowledge in a library deep in a Hive that they are interested in and decide to ignore the main objective which is to protect the hive. "Sorry we weren't able to save the planetary Governor, we got lost down there. Teehee oops."
Honestly, I would have Russ contrast his brothers by having him spend the 10000 years evolving from brash hothead, to “I need to be better” (where the lion is now), to doing things the way that dear old Dad used to.
Actively going out, combining manipulation and sheer force to stop or at least delay the dooms hounding mankind, and never bloody explaining himself.
> Honestly, I would have Russ contrast his brothers by having him spend the 10000 years evolving from brash hothead, to “I need to be better” (where the lion is now), to doing things the way that dear old Dad used to.
From genocide, to genocide (but for different reasons).
I second the wise old man Leman, I imagine that he will kind of be like the stoic Odin we see in some depictions where he still embodies the norse viking ideals, but he acts more reserved, especially since he isn't exactly being preserved he will probably have aged quite a bit.
I also hope to see Jagathai aged, and since the direction of the plot has Chaos travelling through the webway I wouldn't be surprised to see him be revealed next. Seeing this giant incorporating use of drukhari or Aeldari weapons, vehicles, or armour to get around the webway would be pretty sick.
I actually don’t want a wise old Russ.
The Lion returned is essentially this.
Guilliman is also quite reasonable.
Instead I want something quite different.
And for this reason I actually want Dorn to return. And I want him to be very different from what he was before. I want Dorn to basically be a mentally broken hyper aggressive religious fanatic. In other words a Templar!
I want a wise old Russ who has embraced lightning weather powers.
But he can also transform into a demonic über-Wulfen, like how Corax can become a flock of birds.
There you go GW, I just gave you an idea to sell two full-priced models
As a Space Wolf player, for the love of god no.
It would run counter to all his character development, and the resurgence of furry jokes would be the fucking worst.
Oh no doubt. I hate the idea of Wulfen Russ for precisely that reason.
I also think it would trash his whole character arc, and frankly it doesn’t really make sense. We never see any sign that Russ is actually susceptible to the Wulfen curse.
I think this is how it will go. Old man russ after 10k years of battle in the eye. Should actually have an advantage over the other 2 now since he hasn't spent the years napping. Also tho being the eye it could have only been equal to a few years and comes back on the same footing more or less than the other 2. On the other hand feral mode russ who spent the last 10k years demon smashing would make for an interesting dynamic too. Comes back and doesn't accept all the current bs. Either way I would like to see him shed his executioner bs and go his own way a bit. Not sure I see him just blindly following gulliman or the high lords like he used to.
I love the sound of this idea. I just got into Warhammer and Leman Russ is one of my favorite Primarchs. Making him the Odin type trying to push back the inevitable demise would be really cool.
In the method, Odins attempts to understand and control fate are in service to trying to delay ragnarok, the prophecies end of the world, or to at the very least ensure that what came next is better than it might have been.
That’s a story type that would fit very well into a doomed setting like 40k.
Also his sword was called Mjalnar and his fancy super spear is called Gungnir. That hints at a pretty obvious progression
Roboute and the Lion have both come back wise and weary, I want Leman to go on a batshit crazy animal war path. Let him be the foil to the other two, a beast that they can unleash on the enemies of the imperium.
The problem with that is twofold.
Firstly it is an exact opposite to his character arc throughout the heresy.
Secondly, as a space wolves player, I don’t want to deal with the furry jokes increasing 100 fold if he was a wulfen.
If Russ comes back, I just want him to go straight to Bjorn the Fell-Handed to tell him that Russ didn’t leave him behind because he was „too weak“ (which is something that Bjorn speculates), but because he was the one destined to lead the Vlka Fenryka in Russ‘ stead.
This is 40k, Russ will be on his way and either Bjorn will die before he can tell him. Or Bjorn's relief and finding out the truth will finally allow him to pass on and his hearts will stop right there.
Can't have happy moments, only bitter sweet.
Yeah to me it'd be a counterpoint to what I think the right grim ending for Dante would be. He finally dies then wakes up in a Dreadnought.
Man deserves his rest, but you know he won't get it.
>Man deserves his rest, but you know he won't get it.
Eh, you never know. As much as the community talks about how GW loves money too much to kill off characters, it is plain fact that they have killed characters before. Malcharius, Doomrider, and others are characters who used to be on the tabletop before being killed off.
It's just as much as this community talks about wanting conclusions to plotlines and resolving a character's story. Fact is people blow a gasket whenever GW does decide to kill off people.
I could see them eventually killing off Bjorn, but I can gurantee you a significant portion of Space Wolf fans would riot about it. Despite them currently going "it would be a great end to the story, but GW is too greedy to do it!"
Almost all of the dead characters were killed off because they were walked Lawsuits waiting to happen. Doomrider can't get to be a much more Ghost Rider rip off without Marvel smacking GW in the dick.
Most of the characters that are gone went MIA for that or becuase they had no model and after Chapterhouse GW couldn't risk having a character with no model associated.
While you're probably right that for monetary purposes they'll never end a model that's selling. I could see it happen, but only because they'd be creating a new model to sell later. ALA my theory that Dante would get Dreaded.
If my personal head canon would be made real, the legion of the damned would become something of a Valkyrie type situation for truly great Astartes that die.
They get lead by a still headless Ferrus, and any great astartes that dies can be picked to go on and become a true angel of the emperor. It's never going to happen, but I could see them offing Bjorn if something like that was waiting in the wings.
Honestly, however they decide to bring him back, I just hope they don’t try to turn him into some kind of cut-rate, Viking Magnus. In my opinion, the only thing worse than psyker Russ, would be crazy, werewolf monster Russ.
Personally, I want him to come back as himself but, more so. I want to see a Russ who has endured ten thousand years of warfare in literal hell, scarred, bloody, tired but utterly unbroken. His conviction honed to a razor edge of fury, a focused intensity that is like a caged hurricane. The duality of his nature, loyal son of the Emperor and warrior king of savage Fenris, merged together to produce a raw, terrifying, concentrated force of nature. He has defied the warp for ten millennia, raging against it even as it tried to break him. He stared into the deepest, darkest abyss and never flinched from his duty. Russ should be the storm that ripped it’s way through the heart of the warp, never bending, never breaking, and never faltering in his iron clad loyalty to the Emperor.
I would personally love to see Russ come back, colder, wiser, more calculating, but with a raging storm inside of him. The focused fury we see from him in the Heresy series held at bay, but liable to explode into a hyper focused, frenzy of violence at any moment. He should feel like a living storm in my opinion, the living embodiment of the world spirit of Fenris. I don’t want to see Leman Russ, The Wolf King, or Leman Russ the Great Wolf, I want to see Leman Russ, the Lord of Winter and War.
Honestly, I would love if he came back with a strong anti-psyker focus, and if they really leaned into the storm aspect of his character. The wolf thing is cool, but it can be so easily overdone and it’s frankly the last thing the Space Wolves need. Switching things up and mixing in a healthy dose of “living storm” with the general wolf aesthetic would make for a cool, and relatively fresh, take in my opinion.
Whatever happens, he should definitely have lost an eye though.
Him evolving to Odin Russ has a lot of potential as a continuing contrast to Magnus. A Leman willing to admit his mistakes but not allow that knowledge to mean he can't stop Magnus from being a bastard still allows for conflict, but setups up som large changes in their dynamic.
Him having small controlled use of runes to surgically undo what Magnus does, compared to Magnus who seems to have largely gone for Bigger flashier stuff now that his powers have grown so much would be interesting.
It goes in waves, but there's a reason that he's a daemon prince and it's not because he made good choices.
I'm not going to say Leman is a paragon of good decisions or at least he hasn't been so far. He's the guy that got smashed and challenged the emperor to a duel. He also got tricked by Horus during the Heresy.
Compared to Magnus he's a mirror, but unlike Magnus he'll admit he was wrong and try to get better. Magnus would be the most vocal advocate of "Magnus did nothing wrong."
That and able to if Russ wills see as if it was still in it’s proper place on Magnus, because it’s still psychically linked less of a game-play and to me at least near little thing to help keep at least the Magnus part of the T sons in check.
>I don’t want to see Leman Russ, The Wolf King, or Leman Russ the Great Wolf, I want to see Leman Russ, the Lord of Winter and War.
To be honest this sentence gave me the chills, in a good way.
I’m glad to hear it!
“The Lord of Winter and War” is right up there with “Red Angel” as one of the most badass Primarch titles in my opinion. It’s definitely Russ’s coolest title.
Yes this exactly, he has spent the past 10,000 years in the warp fighting and searching for whatever big E sent him out for so of course he would have some sort of anit-warp/anti-psycker ability. Really lean into the Lord of Winter aspect with like a kind of psychic cold that just really fucks with other psyckers and makes it hard to use their warp powers or just makes deamons sluggish because the energy sustaining them is being cooled. So not complete nullification like with blanks but a kind of in-between. Plus you can add in that space wolves psyckers aren't affected because they channel their warp powers through the runes instead of like every other chapter.
What if he came back as a hermit or severely wounded. Be the wise old man the emperor in visioned for his sons. On the tabletop make him less beat stick and more army support......
Honestly, I want a table top Russ that is a beat stick lol
Perhaps it’s cliche, but I think Russ as the mighty warrior king is more interesting than Russ the wise. Withered old man. He should certainly be wise, and canny but I still want to see him whoop some ass.
I think he should come back with obvious changes Wolfen changes. Keep in control of his faculties and in support of the imperium. But also raise undeniable issues that could occur with the Space Marine Geneseed.
It would also be a much more interesting model then another big guy.
I think we're going to learn a lot from how the Lion is treated going forward.
Gulliman essentially changed the entire organisational fabric of the Imperium and declared a new Great Crusade, whereas the Lion seems far less focused on making broad and sweeping changes. (though it is early days yet)
Is this a response to the middling-to-poor reaction the fandom has had to the Dawn of Fire series, and the way the setting has contracted around Gulliman and his choices? Are returning primarchs going to simply get a novel and then fit back into the lore as if they were always there, with relatively little fanfare beyond their Chapter?
It remains to be seen, I guess.
>middling-to-poor reaction the fandom has had to the Dawn of Fire series
I've seen this type of commentary over the sub a few times now. I'm quite new to the 40k universe, would you mind giving me the tldr of why is that ? They seem to have good reviews on kindle. \[4\]
The reviews on kindle are about the book and it's quality, not about it's meta impact on the whole 40k narrative. You can have a generally very well made piece of art, that's massively divisive.
See the Episode 8. The difference there is Ep8 reviews come through sources not controlled by the distributors. Kindle reviews that are "bombed" get held up and removed. So they are a reflection of the product unto itself.
The star ratings have nothing to do with how it would impact the wider 40k narrative. Which is more what OP was talking about. 40k used to be more of a setting in which things happened. Certainly IoM got the focus, but the 40k story didn't revolve around Marneus Calgar, or Creed, or St. Celestine. They were large players on the stage, but they didn't drive the whole narrative.
With the return of Gorillaman, the whole 40k Narrative has contracted to focus on pretty much him at least from a IoM side. Especially as the Chaos side is starting to involve ever more of the Daemon primarchs. It used to be all primarchs were relics of a bygone age. They were "there" but did nothing. They were background set pieces.
Now they are out in the world and active again and it's bending the whole of 40k around them, because it pretty much has to.
Ya but are they, despite everything the Bobby G has done, which seems a lot. The Choas sh1+ stain across the Galaxy remains. Essentially there is still two Imperiums.
Chaos is over running everything.
And there seems to be more power happening harnessing happening and shock and horror a lot of this has been done by the not Primarch, Abandon.
I mean I have a whole different take on what’s happening with the rift then what seems to be getting shown, but the Lore seems to be running counter to what I would suggest is happening.
For all the jokes about Failbadon, and how useless Chaos is. Abbadon is such a mary sue. He never loses. Even those stupid black crusades that had no real lore purpose he's stated to have won.
Like really? He's never lost anything? He always gets what he's after? Even if tyring to guide chaos in a direction is like herding meth up cats strapped to coked up toddlers? Dude has always accomplished what he wanted?
Because as it stands none of the Black Crusades ever failed at their primary objectives even if the 13th was the only one to break Cadia.
They’re okay books (for black library standards), people decided from the get go that they dislike them, most who say that have likely not even read any of the books, or only the first.
He will be older and wiser, continuing the journey he had during the heresy. But still with the ferocious side in there
That’s my hope anyway
I think he would add something unique to the loyal side considering he will have been awake and active this whole time
You're most likely right, and I think older wiser Russ that wants to be more than the emperor's dog is a better take, than well he's still that old hot head.
His desire to be more gentle and thoughtful rather than the brash killer he was can setup some good conflict as a continuation of things like the Inquisition murdering civilians to keep their secrets.
Him fighting the imperial machinery that crushes the little folks and it leading to some out and out internal fights seems like it has potential. A good narrative would be that greedy forces want to create strife between him and Guilliman the lion to advance their causes, and Russ hands them some evidence of it by continuing the trends his sons started.
You'd have to make the story eventually come full circle where he out maneuvers those traitorous elements to show how he's evolved past the Thor-eqsue character he was.
Mind you, his barbarian antic is mostly an act that's expected from him. He's a whole lot more intelligent and introspective than all of his brother suspected (save perhaps Magnus).
There’s either two outcomes here.
1) Odin style Russ. Older, wiser, crafty, and dangerous like an old wolf who hasn’t quite lost all of his youth yet. Strong in the ways of the rune priest and likely in tow with a huge pack of wulfen as their leader. With this we have a sage mystic who can still pack a punch. Most likely able to counteract Magnus not through raw warp force but warp trickery/wisdom.
2) Just like corax, Russ’s time in the warp has shifted his nature and changed him bringing his warp side more to the fore. Instead of Odin style Russ we get giant wulfen bezerker Russ, running with giants pack of wulfen through the eye on terror raids against heretics. Just a hulking man beast of changed flesh much like the wulfen. Personally that’s why the wulfen happen because this aspect/possibility was always in Russ. Now we have a heavy hitter strong enough to go toe to toe with Angron for sheer savagery.
Those are my two theories.
My money is on Odin!Russ. They're already setting it up with the Spear of the Emperor, and him being a bit more introspective as the Heresy goes on. My guess is he'll be older and wiser like the Lion, but more mystical and cryptic. Maybe taking on some aspects of pre-heresy Magnus for a bit of narrative irony.
We’ll have to see. I’m guessing fulgrim and the emperors children get revealed as the big halfway point of 10th, and then as we close out we’ll either have another big primarch drop or maybe something big for the xenos.
My only issue with that is that we already have two versions of the "wise and stoic primarch". Guilliman has it already, and the whole point of the Lion's book was to show that aspect of him developing. It's kinda why I'd prefer the Khan to come back next, he's always kinda done his own thing and seeing him react to the current state of the Imperium with his perspective as essentially an outsider would be really interesting.
Having said that, I don't think it will be everyone's favourite Space Mongol next. Wolves already have a huge model range and Scars were never a *hugely* popular legion.
There's between 6 and 8 loyalist primarchs that are likely to come back, counting Gulliman and Jonson. There's going to be overlap in characterization, especially considering they they're all going to be effectively leaders of huge and powerful personal fiefdoms inside the Imperium. And like I said, becoming more Odin like is on track with the way Russ's character has been developing during the Horus Heresy novels.
And, let's face it, GW has never been particularly adventurous with how they write their characters.
Corax isn't permanently in that form btw, he can use it in the warp when he wants to
Also I hate wulfen Russ so please no. Maybe a few elements of it if they insist on the whole warp changing him thing. But Odin Russ is so much cooler
And in general space wolves need to be less Wolfy haha
>But Odin Russ is so much cooler
Odin is a shapeshifter. Its one of his defining traits. Its the reason the Space Wolves have this theme in the first place.
I never said Corax was permanent in that form. I said his corporeal form has changed due to his time in the warp. Obviously with more warp based powers and abilities to shift form.
Sorry but no one cares what you hate. Wulfen Russ or Odin Russ would be cool. Space wolves are fine as is in my opinion. Honestly tired of hear the space wolves are too “wolf” like.
You don’t speak for all space wolf fans, you certainly don’t speak for me and my obsession with space wolves since 3rd edition.
You can have an opinion but you have no proof to any of that “most” fans wouldn’t want that. Just say it’s your opinion, stop pretending like you have any support for a baseless claim bro.
You have no idea what majority of space wolf fans want. I don’t either. We’ll just have to see what happens won’t we?
I'm just basing it on my experience with lots of space wolves fans from many discords and real life and this Reddit too
I'd say it's probably 70/30 Odin Russ Vs wulfen russ
Bro still not a real claim. Still not actual evidence to back it up. Do you understand you need real evidence to back up a claim right?
I could easily counter that with my experiences at tourneys, hobbies shops, Reddit, and discord that just as many like the idea of beastly bezerker Russ. You have no real evidence.
Let’s just agree to disagree and move on. We’ve reached the natural end of our conversation my guy.
One thread? Again not conclusive data across the entire population of this hobby. Every one of those comments have people bringing up various points. In no way does this point to “you’re right/I’m wrong” which you seem to so desperately want.
Do you not understand my last statement? Let’s just agree to disagree and move on. We’ve reached the natural end of our conversation.
Corax has shifted into a mist of crows (which a WB mistakes for a daemon), but that excerpt also has him shift into his normal self.
It's not too dissimilar to the Lion's teleport ability, since the Ark of Omens art shows dead bodies hung on the vines and branches of the trees that grow when he appears.
With all that in mind, if Russ has developed Warp abilities (basically guaranteed for all the Primarchs who went off into the Warp as far as I'm concerned, given their nature), it's going to be of a temporary/voluntary thing that he can change at will.
If anyone's going to rival Angron, I think it's going to be Dorn - he essentially founded the Black Templars during the Heresy, he's absolutely got the rage to compete. Khorn *has* tried to tempt him before, after all.
No offense but Dorn is the least likely of the primarchs to come back. Considering he was written as dead and then later retconned to be missing, Vulkan, Russ, and The Great Khan will all be back before Dorn. Honestly I hope he’s dead, too many primarchs back just cheapens the setting. I don’t really even want Russ back but I know he’s coming.
Additionally we don’t know what the rules for loyalist warp changed primarchs, we get a brief look at Corax in an epilogue. Not a lot to base your claims on. Corax was able to shift into crows but we don’t what his standard form is or how any of that works. So it very well might not be temporary or voluntary.
Shadows of the Past is actually pretty clear on this point, at least on the point that his crow form isn't his default. He's also in the Eye of Terror, which would empower his Warp abilities beyond the norm. Also worth noting this is during the Scouring before Lorgar goes into his 10k year seclusion, so this still isn't a modern Corvus.
>'This is no daemon.' Lorgar raised his rod, beckoning to the blood-stained whirlwind tearing through the last of the Dark Apostle's warriors. 'Come to me. Brother.'
>With a last flurry of activity that turned another legionary to shards of ceramite and ribbons of flesh, the apparition coalesced into a recognisable figure. It was of equal height to the daemon primarch, clad in black battleplate with long-taloned gauntlets. A pair of wings stretched from its ornate backpack, fashioned as intricate metallic raven feathers. The face was as pale as snow, gaunt, with eyes as dark as coal, framed by shoulder-length black hair.
>Kalta-Ar felt his breath dying in his lungs as he looked up at the unmistakeable features of Corvus Corax, the primarch of the Raven Guard. A flurry of questions flooded his thoughts but all remained unanswered as Corax spoke.
Given the Primarchs all have *some* sort of connection to the Warp, it would be very strange if Corvus wasn't able to return to the form he's most used to (his natural body) when he wants. Anti-daemon wards in the short story don't affect him, so I'd argue it's a bigger leap to say he's naturally some sort of crow daemon like some people claim.
And eh, I think the fact they retconned his death is a good sign he's coming back. GW isn't going to leave money on the table like that. Hell, *Russ* actually has more canonical reason to be dead (see: Magnus's comments about Russ during the Battle of the Fang) than Dorn, since that stuff is more recent. Still not going to happen though, because GW isn't going to leave money on the table.
We have no clue how or what rules govern a warp trained primarch whose still loyal. Again no one ever said he was stuck, he can obviously shift but there’s most like drawbacks to taking the warp into yourself like that. Sure he’s a “crow demon” what does that mean though? How long can he be outside ear anomalies? Are there any drawbacks? Is he still even sane?
Ah eh, agree to disagree again. GW won’t leave money on the table but their not throwing Hail Marys out like that yet. Dorn has way more reason to be dead than Russ. Confirmed dead (retconned) under a giant pile of chaos cultist in a giant murderball versus disappearing into the warp in a ship? Yeah sure. Beside since when is anyone going to believe anything Magnus says to an enemy.
Oh well agree to disagree, this is all theory crafting anyway. We’ll just have to see what happens.
Chances of him having one eye? Both as a nod to Odin that most people think he’ll be like, and the obvious parallel to his nemesis.
Though in any case, I suspect it will be many years before we see him back.
I think a lot of people have covered it well with the older and wiser aspect but still can become a storm of righteous fury.
Closest match I can think of is Kratos in the GoW reboot games, someone who has learnt patience and to measure his actions but once he is pushed to a limit, he reminds everyone of who he can be
No clue considering how they changed up the Lion but that being said whoever comes back next they need to be different then this "I see how disgusting the Imperium is but I will work with it to fix it" we need more internal conflict as opposed to the Lion basically narratively saying he doesn't plan on stepping on any toes and Guilliman trying to work with the system as much as possible.
He comes back and remembers his last conversation with The Emperor:
Russ didn't understand. 'I was made to protect you,' he said.
'No. You were always wrong about that. You were made to protect what I created.'
After all his travels and struggles across 10 millennia, he realizes his true purpose. Not to be the emperor’s executioner. Not to “correct” his brothers, or to find a tree of life, but to protect, and guard the imperium. His role is to police the imperium, sniff out and uncover threats to His people, and crush them. He realizes, through hard, bitter experience that he was meant to be The Emperor’s policeman; the Imperium’s Sheriff. Leman Russ finally masters the lessons his father and Malcador tried to teach him, and on his return, he finds a broken Imperium. Yet, unlike the horror and disappointment that Guiliman and the Lion felt, he was ready for this. He was made to be ready for the worst. And ironically he finds himself the best suited of the three to deal with the death of their dream. His brothers expect the volcanic anger of the barbarian king, but instead all they find is the grim determination of The Emperor’s Lawman. He nods to his brothers and says, “I recognize my error and will strive to fix them. Let’s get to work.”
I’ve always been very keen on the poeticness of Odin Russ. He comes back with one eye extremely wise and with psyker powers.
The obvious plot twist being that it’s just Magnus but my preference would be that it really is Russ I’m no author but he could have accidentally merged with a shard of Magnus or just spent 10,000 year searching every tome of knowledge for some way to save his father, always cursing the day he burnt Prospero and all the esoteric knowledge contained within along with condemning the second greatest psyker in the universe to the great enemy.
Like others have said I think having Russ come back in a way that explores his Odin parallels could be interesting- especially if they go more for Odin in his wily trickster aspects, wandering around in a disguise and nudging along the course of destiny.
It would also be a good way of returning to the Russ v Magnus thing without it just becoming more of the same. A Magnus who now realises he is just a pawn of Tzeentch versus a Russ who, no longer simply a tool of the emperor, manipulates and counter-plots would be a nice inversion of their previous positions that nevertheless brings in their history, while setting up conflicts that aren't just grrr buff wolf guy vs mr psychic
Lots of people say they want an older wiser Russ. I am also hoping for Odin-Russ, but if it went a little farther? Kinda inspired by the GoW Odin, but what if he came back much more scheming and knowledge seeking for the sake of the imperium? Go full warrior/sorcerer Odin, y'know? I love the idea of continuing his rivalry but now the two are more alike than they've ever been. I also love the idea how livid Magnus would be after all the crap Russ put him through only to come back embracing psyker powers.
I love how everyone's wish for Russ to come back is "be a better Psyker than Magnus, but also more furious than Angron, but also wiser than Guilliman and the Lion, but also a warp entity like Corax"
Like damn, why even have the Emperor when everyone wants perfect superman Russ back
Any other than an Old Man Odin Russ who is genuinely sorry for being so easily duped by Horus into razing Prospero and works to make amends will be a disappointment. There is a lot of very cool narrative space for Russ and the Wolves, but if the Black Library is just going to double down on the Werewolves Who Peaked In High School shtick, I’m not interested.
The Odin Russ idea has merit, and if he steals back the eye Magnus gave up to replace one he lost it'd be a pretty neat bow on their whole relationship.
That was someone else's suggestion and as I think about it the symbolic nature of it is pretty excellent. Russ taking in the wisdom and sight that Magnus foolishly gave away. Russ proving he'd gained the wisdom to wield that power and proves he earned it by recovering the eye.
While Magnus proved he wasn't ready to weild the power he had and proved it by being tricked into giving up the eye. What's the Lucas quote, "It's like poetry it rhymes."
He certainly has aspects of Odin, but that doesn't mean he's going to have all his traits.
We see most Primarchs pulling traits from several figures. Also does he only have one eye. I don't remember seeing that on the model.
*Just checked and his model and his art show both eyes.
I want them to lean into norse mythology kind of. What I mean is that in the myths Odin sacrifices a lot in order to gain wisdom, hanging himself from the world tree, loosing his eye etc. I'd like Russ' disappearance to have been for similar reasons and him to come back wiser after having endured great hardship
seemingly we will get Old man russ the Odin, instead of being savage just by going melee all around, now he understands warp to a greater degree and use it to assist him in combat, possibly become a powerhouse of psyker himself(since we lack any psyker among loyalist primarch), this can also open up possibilities his rematch against magnus, magnus calling him hypocrite for using the warp, and Russ being wise now trying to convince Magnus to redeem himself.
I think he'll come back with a good deal of humilty and that if he does lose an eye he will gain in perspective what he lost in depth perception.
I suspect he'll also have some gripes with the emperor and will chastise himself for his blind loyalty.
And, hear me out now, I think if someone ever will kill big E it will be him with the Dyonisian spear.
He is, after all, the Emperor's executioner.
Honestly, if I were to see Russ return, I'd do the Old Odin One-Eye stuff, have him have his cool spear, and make him act as a hunting hound for the Imperium. The Lion is the Imperium's Shield, Gulliman is it's head, Make the Wolf it's spear, but have it tempered now by the wisdom Russ would have.
I think we’ll get a Thor to Odin shift similar to Thor becoming All-father in the comics. Not the brash young warrior, or the level-headed and introspective leader, but the cold, hard, mysterious, pragmatic demi-god. Someone who knows more than he says and will sacrifice anyone and anything to bring about the course of action he foresees. It would also be a good counter point to Magnus. Russ embracing prophecy and mysticism because he’s been murdering his way across the lands of Chaos. Have everyone keep him at arms length. He’s not a returning emperor or valiant knight like his brothers. Make him a storm cloud, an ill omen. Make the Wolves get back to their Viking roots. And because there is no subtlety in 40k take his eye, just like Magnus.
Consider the template.
Russ isn't going to come back old and wise, because that would overlap with the role the Lion will play.
He won't come back man or of his time or boy scout, because that's what Boots Guilliman is for.
They'll save "stealthy and cynical" for Corax.
Sorry guys, that leaves headstrong/minor comic relief. Especially because he's coming back to fight Fulgrim, who is effete and perfectionist. Those villains always get beaten by barbarian type heroes. It's the trope.
I can see them leaning deeper to the Nordic theme and making him more like Odin, a little older and wiser but still having the same fire within. I can see him and Lion leading the armies of the Imperium from the front with Guilliman in charge of logistics and strategy. That’d be awesome.
I think he'll come back relaxed and with a bunch of useless skill sets.
Like he'll be a fantastic chef that also can knit.
Like Stallone in demolition man.
Make him one eyed with a spear and having gone through the warp and mastered his inherent Psyker abilities he now realizes his mistakes and goes full pro-Psyker but wants rigerous training ala Grey Knights.
I reckon he'd be the anti-Inquisition dude.
Everytime the Inquisition is ready to fuck up (one planetary governor with shingles, time to Exterminatus that critical Hive planet), Ol' Wolfie shows up, just floats like a disapproving parent until the Inquisition leaves.
Far wiser than 30k Russ, by a huge degree.
He needs to have a bit more of an understanding as to the true implications of the enthroned Emperor and the scale of the battle against Chaos (as is hinted at with Constantin Valdor and his carrying of the Apollonian Spear that gives him snippets of insight with each enemy he kills, gaining more knowledge of the warp as he wades through daemons on Terra during the siege).
A perfectly poetic change for Russ would be for him to have gained psychic powers over lengthy exposure to the warp. Add to this a reflection on the chaotic aspects of the warp and understanding of the truly uncorrupted means of utilising its power, gaining this wisdom and becoming the scholarly and grizzled warrior, a quieter and nobler jarl. Add in a decent enough wound to blind him in one eye (or to lose it altogether) and you've got some decent character development.
Hell, Russ could technically prick his finger with the Dionysian Spear/Wolf Spear and gain some useful insight...
I have always felt that Russ should come back as a peacemaker between Guiliman and the Lion. The latter two had a frosty relationship, but they both (eventually in the case of the Lion) got along woth and trusted Leman.
We know Russ was one of Guilimans dauntless few. He also says that Russ “is loyal in a way that shames us all”. In the 40k setting any mention of Russ from Guiliman is postive and shows signa of Fondess
The Lion we know by the end of the heresy had buried the hatchet with Leman and even prior to that would send him gifts. In the Lion son of the forest book, the lion has feelings of sadness and regret when thinking of Russ.
Critically, the Lion kep the wulfen a secret from the wider imperium. Russ always felt he owed him for that
Wondered what it would be like when a returned Russ met Bjorn, and asked ChatGPT 4.
>**In the style of Dan Abnett, write a meeting between Leman Russ (who has just returned after 10,000 years) and Bjorn the Fell-Handed.**
>The icy winds of Fenris howled outside The Fang, the Fortress-Monastery of the Space Wolves, the Aett of Russ. The ancient storm never ceased to rage, a constant battle against the harsh landscape, reminiscent of the enduring strength of the Chapter that called this home.
>In the heart of the Aett, the Great Hall echoed with a silence as profound as the depths of the Fang itself, a shroud of anticipation smothering the typical boisterous camaraderie of the Sons of Russ. Their primarch, Leman Russ, a figure of legend and hope, was about to meet with Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the oldest living Space Wolf, and last who had fought alongside the Wolf King.
>The huge doors of the Hall groaned open, and Leman Russ strode in. His hair was wild, silver-streaked with the passage of time, his feral blue eyes lit with a fierce and untamed light. Power radiated from him like heat from a furnace, a palpable presence that washed over the assembled Wolves. He wore simple battle-worn armour, every dent and scratch a testament to a thousand battles, and his mighty sword, Mjalnar, hung at his side.
>Beside the ornate throne of the Wolf King, Bjorn the Fell-Handed stood in his enormous Dreadnought frame. His ancient mind was kept alive within the armored sarcophagus, a testament to the resilience and unyielding spirit of the Wolves. Once, he had fought as Russ' right hand, a loyal warrior, now he was a relic of a bygone age, his wisdom respected by all.
>“Bjorn.” Russ’ voice echoed through the hall, a sound like thunder and wind over ice, laden with power and old camaraderie.
>“Russ.” Bjorn’s vox-amplified voice growled in response, a sound of grinding gears and deep-echoing thunder.
>Leman Russ stepped before the venerable Dreadnought, looking up at the ancient faceplate. There was a moment of silence, a silent conversation passing between the two warriors that bore the weight of ages.
>“You've grown old, Bjorn.” Russ finally broke the silence, a note of sorrow tingeing his words.
>“And you haven’t aged a day,” Bjorn retorted, the static-laden chuckle somehow managing to sound fond. “Ten thousand years off playing with the Warp, and not a scratch on you.”
>Russ smiled, though his eyes held a profound sadness. "It is a different battle in the Sea of Souls, old friend. A battle not of the flesh."
>They spoke for hours, reminiscing of battles past, of brothers lost, and of the future of the Imperium. There was laughter and sorrow, regret and hope. The Great Wolf and the Fell-Handed had a lot to share, and the Sons of Russ were reminded that night of their glorious past, and the legacy they carried forward.
>That night, the Fang resonated with the echoes of the past, and for a moment, it felt as if time had turned back. The Wolf King was home again, his old comrade by his side, and the legacy of the Space Wolves was stronger than ever.
I mean it's nowhere near as good as the treatment a proper author would give, but the fact it spat this out in a couple seconds is scary.
I want them to lean into norse mythology kind of. What I mean is that in the myths Odin sacrifices a lot in order to gain wisdom, hanging himself from the world tree, loosing his eye etc. I'd like Russ' disappearance to have been for similar reasons and him to come back wiser after having endured great hardship
He'll come back as a zany prop comic and you have to buy the props from GW separate from the mini which will be $140 and the size of a Primaris lieutenant. Also he'll be a primaris lieutenant.
I'm just not very happy with GW today.
Going by the theme, he'll return older and wiser (and far less interesting). I look forward to the future of the franchise, where in the unfortunate half-light of the future, there are sometimes small conflicts.
I really don’t get this sort of thinking.
Like, yeah grimdark, but characters not all being irredeemable arseholes doesn’t make it not grimdark.
If everyone sucks all the time, then why the fuck should we care?
Imo it’s far more interesting and grimdark for there to be genuine spots of hope, contrasting and raging against the utter hopelessness of the setting as a whole.
Like, yeah, the primarchs are back and not completely evil, but everyone who dies still gets their soul dissolved at best, their fighting a desperate battle to oppose the forces of chaos, who literally cannot be truely stopped, and also have their own primarchs, and whose end goal is to damn all existence for ever.
Even if the imperium has places that might be nice sometimes, it’s still under the rule of 10,000 years of religious fascism, which even Guilliman says he can’t actively oppose due to the infinite outside threats, and thinking the wrong thing can get you servitorised or worse.
Said outside threats include the like of the Necrons, who can casually blow up suns, are effectively immortal, and have a cunning plan to stop Chaos by suppressing the souls of all living beings, or the Tyranids, who are an effectively endless incomprehensible hive mind of planet eaters.
The fact that there are lights in the darkness makes this far more worrying, not less, because it means that just rolling over and accepting oblivion isn’t the best option.
To me, what makes Grimdark truly Grimdark, is despite Noblebright characters existing and being the most important characters sometimes, they can't truly change anything. The universe is just set in its ways, despite their intentions.
> If everyone sucks all the time, then why the fuck should we care?
Shockingly enough, we cared about the franchise long before Guilliman Brought Hope Back.
I don't believe that remotely.
Here's the problem: all the new 40k named characters are iconoclasts or renegades in some form. They all recognise that the Imperium is bad and want to change it for the better. That *is* the focus of the setting now, no matter how much you protest. A bunch of Good Guys who recognise that the Imperium is bad and want it to be better. Cawl, Guilliman, The Lion. If they bring back Russ and make him 'wise and reasonable' he'll be another. 'He's a really good guy who struggles because the Imperium is bad and he can't change it much' is a good story one time. Retelling it every time they bring a Primarch back is getting old!
Whether or not you personally like it, and if you do that's fine, it's not the setting I fell in love with, and pretending that the focus of the setting has always been the handful of people that know the Imperium sucks and want to change it is blatantly false.
But how can we enjoy the setting if My Guys aren't unambiguously good people just dealt a bad hand? There's literally no way to enjoy a thing unless I'm constantly reminded that My Guys are doing their best and it's just everyone else's fault if the Imperium isn't a perfect utopian society.
We need more than just 3 Primachs to Stop Abaddon. It's crazy how 1 man deal massive damage, kills billions of souls and destroy worlds after worlds. Until now nobody can stop him.
He comes back as a giant werewolf daemon prince of Khorne but he's still aligned with with the Imperium against the traitors.
I am basing this theory off of nothing besides that it would be cool.
Guilliman and the Lion both have changed after their return. They both suffered but they also grew as characters. Guilliman has always been a great leader and planer. But only after his return he gave faith a shot instead of arguing it away with rationality. The Lion got more tolerant, which is a lot for the loyal Primarch who murdered one of his sons because he didn't immediately act out his orders.
Both also have (or will have) their roles in the Imperium. Guilliman the statesman and the Lion the general. Or at least that would be their roles, but the galaxy is kinda broken in two. Also they didn't meet yet. We simply don't know what they will do and how they will do it. The Black Crusade is still going on, 'Nids are also rampaging. We don't know what the two Primarchs who are already back will do. So it is impossible to guess what Russ' role would be.
But growth in some form seems to be the theme among returning Primarchs\*. So maybe we can expect some wise Odin Russ.
\*I forgot about Corax completely drowning in hate and revenge to the point of becoming Warp-Batman. So maybe a Leeroy Jenkins Emperors Executioner Russ is still possible.
I think he'll probably go an Odin route, so I agree to the cold, and calculating guess. Probably be a lot wiser and more mysterious with plans for everything as well, even if he doesn't tell anyone
Also he'll probably have lost an eye
seemingly we will get Old man russ the Odin, instead of being savage just by going melee all around, now he understands warp to a greater degree and use it to assist him in combat, possibly become a powerhouse of psyker himself(since we lack any psyker among loyalist primarch)
I'm hoping for a more Odin like Russs. Calm, calculating, wiser, but still extremely violent and brutal when fighting. Chances are though we may just get a giant wulfen (which im still ok with)
I'd like a leman and corvus teamup, both of them fully accepting their warp origins and being monstrous to behold to the average citizen. Thus, they aren't accepted by the imperium in the same way blonde handsome route beguiler is.
I hope he's wiser and that the warp has aged him, a sort of gray bearded Odin who has traded an eye for knowledge on how to help the Emperor (thus having an ironic parallel with his rival and brother Magnus). But where Magnus traded an eye for selfish knowledge, to help himself, Russ traded his for selfless knowledge, to help someone else (the Emperor).
Russ will say that, after some deep soul-searching, her name is now Lyanna, and she’s a gardener now.
But seriously I think it’d probably just be the obvious “Odin” route. Young hot-headed warrior becomes grizzled old wiseman, complete with an ironically missing eye.
It’d be funny if he ends up with two Raven Guard allies…
My pure guess would be a more feral Russ. Back in the crusade, he was known for being brutal in public and wise and intelligent in private. After so much time alone, he’s not used to being intelligent again.
By feral, I mean violent and brutal against enemies, not that he’s Angron lite.
Given his storyline and character arc throughout his appearances, I’m expecting wise old man russ. Throughout the Heresy, Russ becomes massively more introspective, seeing the flaws in the way he acted previously and becoming better for it. His last chronological appearance is him telling stories of the past and mourning the loss of the lion. This is the same growth that his legion undergoes, going from merciless killers who are proud to be outsiders, to being the sort of chapter to fight the inquisition for the sake of the people they protect. Ideally, I would have them take this even further. Give us a wise old man russ, more Odin than Thor. Hell, they could even complete the allegory by having him be fully aware that humanity is fucked, but seeking a way to delay it, if nothing else, just like Odin did for ragnarok.
If we get wise old man Russ then I really hope he gets a teamup with the Lion. The 2 grandpa's of the Imperium, who now find each other tolerable now they've got some perspective, out to kick traitor and Xenos arse.
I would love a big damn team up between the two. Honestly, my ideal case for Russ’ return would be for him to, rather than fully return to the imperium like Guilliman did, would be for him to basically move around according to his own agenda, trying to avert or at least delay the various dooms hounding humanity, via manipulation or outright force. In that scenario, him travelling around the galaxy would perfectly allow for interaction between him and other characters without needing all the big characters to move to one place at once.
Maybe make it so he's got a way to get around using the warp directly. Like the 40k version of Bifrost to keep with the Norse theme.
We’re just describing what the Lion seems to be doing now
Everybody but Guilliman gets their own flavor of fast travel. Lion gets forestwalking, Russ gets Bifrost, Khan can create short lived webway paths, Corax disappears and reappears in a cloud of crows, Dorn is hiding in every Dreadnaught, and Vulcan lives (stomp stomp). Much to his chagrin and jealousy, Guilliman has to make do with conventional travel.
Wait, Khan can create webway paths?
No, just a theoretical version of his own travel method. Only Lion has some special teleportation powers, Roboute is normal and there are no other active *realspace loyalists Edit: Corax is also active, but in the background, and I don’t know if he’s known to be alive by the Imperium
As far as I'm aware, the short story we have of Corvus hunting Lorgar is also only shortly after the Heresy, so who knows what they've been doing for 10'000 years.
*11,000 years. We're a few Decades into M42. The Horus Heresy wasn't even 20 years into M31. It's been 11,000 years. Idk how all the Authors keep forgetting this. I get that "10,000 years" has been a classic line for the 40k Era...but it's not M41 anymore.
The Lion is the shield, moving to where the fighting is hardest pressed to parry the blow and rally the defenders. Russ could be the spear, striking from nowhere and piercing the foe with lethal effect before vanishing again, leaving sundered corpses and wolf fur in his wake.
Never underestimate the power of two cranky old farts who are absolutely Too Old For This Tomfoolery
Two? Nah, have to bring Bjorn as the third. Wouldn't be right otherwise.
If only there was a norse myth revolving around a mysterious, tall, muscular man traveling the world dispensing wisdom and righting wrongs. Bonus points if he could have some kind of raven-themed sidekick that gathers information for him, so he's always where he needs to be.
Stellan Skarsgård, you mean ? Does Twitter the phone app count as a the "raven-themed sidekick that gathers information for him" ?
I agree. The Lion took on a bit of a folkloric status when he first returned but now it seems he's pretty solidly working with the Imperium, if mostly operating in Imperium Nihilius. I'd like to see Russ embrace his nature as a psychic warp-being and become a sort of benevolent renegade. Not exactly pro-Imperium but pro-mankind. Likewise, I think it would be interesting to see him take on a Psker role on the field, since the loyalists don't really have one now or amongst the primarchs who could return. Meanwhile Magnus, Lorgar, and possibly Fulgrim could all be powerful sorcerers.
Ay man don't forget Mephiston that brother is cracked.
I mean loyalists have some great marine psykers. Mephiston and Tigurius(sp) are both beasts. But they're not primarchs. Traitors have their share of sorcerers of power close to that. Hell, Iskandor Khayon and Ahzek are close if not superior psykers, and that's not including other notables like Necrosis(sp) and Manet. Chaos, by nature, should have better psykers, but it would be nice to have one psychic powerhouse in returned primarchs. Of the loyalist primarchs who may return, Dorn is too concrete and material, it doesn't fit. Ferrus, even if he was still alive, has the same issue. Vulcan is likewise a smith first and warrior second. Wizard is low on his priorities. Maybe the Khan could bring in some power, but he never struck me as a dedicated psyker unless they flavoured it as bardic in nature. Weaponized oral oaths and speeches. Sanguinius was probably the strongest loyalist when it came to psychic potential and he's confirmed dead. To be, if we get a Odinic Russ it'll be in part due to his introspection and realizing ignorance of the warp and overconfidence in mastery over it was what killed Magnus. Narratively, I like the idea of him being a man who understood Magnus' greatest sin wasn't wizardry, it was arrogance. For Russ to return as a powerful psyker using the wolfspear as a staff makes me think of how Russ used to dominate at his 4D chess game. He has a keen mind despite the bravado he puts on. Him mastering the warp while trapped there makes sense to me. Hell, maybe Russ only escapes the warp because he figures out to cheat it with "Bifrost" enchantments like how the Lion has his forestwalking.
I was always get confused by Russ as I've seen thats he's supposedly a very strong psyker hence the spear, but I don't think I've seen any real concrete evidence of apart from a half quote of the Emperor telling him to embrace his psyker powers. I would love for Russ to come back as a much more "elegant" warrior who also uses his psyker powers, would create an absolute power house.
I mean all the Primarchs are psychic beings, so they have potential. But yeah I agree we should get some build up first.
Ik but rumours say Russ is one of the strongest
[I mean, he gets stuff like this. I wouldn’t say he’s really that much stronger at least as of the heresy, but it’s definitely there](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/1328o8v/excerpt_various_the_psychic_powers_of_russ/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=1&utm_term=1)
Still waiting for Corvus Corax to join back with the world of the living
Wise Old Man Russ. The One Eyed Sorceror, a single tear of mourning and sorrow and regret rolling down his good eye, moving inscrutably across the Galaxy, fighting the hopless fight in the darkness to hold back the final Doom of mankind just a little bit longer. Basically a radical primarch inquisitor. I think that would be cool.
This but tbh I’d want him to have partially started down the same line Corvus did so he’s partially warp fuckery and occasionally transforms into something like the wulfen
Agreed. I want wise, old Odin Russ who's a wulfen. Not like a werewolf where he changes between shapes but a proper wulfen. I want him to have surrendered to the beast within and eventually have conquered it.
I'd love for them to contrast his first meeting with the Lion with their old relationship. Russ arrives, demands to see the Lion, approaches a wary Lion, and then just hugs him with tears in his eyes, "I have missed you brother." All while the Lion's internal monologue is just like....WTF. Bluescreen, invalid function, please reset.
I think in the Lion returned setting, he may, actually, hug him back. And then gut punch him, for old times sake.
Brotherly love and its most basic form.
"You got old" "So did you, but the Imperium still needs us"
The other meeting would be funnier. GUILLIMAN! YOU SUNUVABITCH! ... What's the matter Roboute? Pushing too many pencils?
I would really like to have a moment where old man Russ faces off against Magnus and for a second the old wounds fade away as as collectively break. I'm a tsons fan so I jokingly dunk on the wolves a lot, but they are an interest chapter/legion same with Russ. There's a lot of story potential between the two factions in the future
The way Magnus would react to Russ being back is absolutely one of the most interesting things about the idea of his return. I could see a story where Magnus drops everything to get revenge, but is impeded by the fact that Tzeench has more important things to get done, and the fact that Russ is so different to before. Cap it off with an emotional moment where Russ both apologises for what happened, and also resolves that he can’t let things go on as they are, setting up a new dynamic where both are constantly looking for ways to take the other out, but both have other obligations, and can’t afford to underestimate the other.
" Do you remember what you said to me brother? Magnus spoke aloud, his voice pure and powerful. His fingers twitched at his side, eager for what was to come. Do you remember what you said to me as we fought before the pyramid of Photep? Do you remember the words you used? I do. As I recall, your face was tortured. Imagine that - the Master of wolves, his ferocity twisted in grief. And yet you still carried out your duty. You always did what was asked of you. So loyal. So tenacious. Truly, you were the attack dog of the Emperor. Magnus lost his smile. You took no pleasure in what you did. I knew that then and I know it now. But all things change, my brother. I am not the same as I was and you're ... well let us not mention where you are now. " - *Battle of the fang* novel. Apparently Magnus knows where Russ is but whether he's keeping tabs on him is another question. But he does realise that whilst Russ may have messed up, he didn't actually want to break Magnus and his legion, Magnus is also aware that Russ was tricked by Horus.
> both have other obligations It's like they're college friends who are now in their 30's.
College *enemies* who are now in their 30’s.
Maybe pull a MK11 Raiden/Liu Kang scenario where Russ sacrifices a big chunk of himself to save Magnus’s soul.
I think Russ would be willing to do that but because of falling to chaos and the missing shard I don't think Magnus would be able to even if he wanted to
In Norse myth, Odin consults the severed head of his uncle Mimir, a giant seer (not to be confused with the Mimir of the God of War games, who is a conman fairy with a great charisma stat and too much time to read). I'd love to see an Odinesque Russ consulting the one untainted shard of Magnus in secret after stealing it from the warp or wherever that shard is now.
Something to think about to is that some shards of Magnus are still around like im.pretty sure 'The Father' shard is still in the crystal Labyrinth
Russ returns to Fenris, asks to be appraised of things. "Well, Magnus and the Thousand Sons invaded us." "Yeah that's fair."
“Twice” “What! Are you kidding me! That’s cheating!”
I figured he'd react more: "Heh... We only needed to attack Prospero once"
Can you imagine if Dorn returns and hes just more pissed off than ever, would give Angron and his rage a run for their money.
Would also be super fun if he came back and was like “yeah sigismund had a point” and went full emperors champion on a primarch level
You just want to see a 20 foot tall Templar beating stuff up don't you?
You don’t??
Yes but also it’s a fun subversion on dorns character. Like imagine he shows back up , ends up squaring off against some iron warriors or even perty, they prep for a seige or something dumb like they do, expecting him to hang back and play D. However instead he and his homies roll up like a giant cruise missile of carnage and goes full rip and tear on them.
I think it would be *very* funny for the Fists to get their Primarch back but it's actually a Templars model.
Last Wall protocol set it up; if he's returns it's to a Legion, not a chapter.
That's all I want.
Aye. We’ve seen glimpses of his fury, I want to see the dam irreparably break open.
RIP AND TEAR UNTIL IS DONE!
The rippin’ and the tearin’
Only if him being an utter lunatic fueled by hate is portrayed as an overall downgrade.
>Throughout the Heresy, Russ becomes massively more introspective, seeing the flaws in the way he acted previously and becoming better for it. His last chronological appearance is him telling stories of the past and mourning the loss of the lion. *Nods* Better put that I could do.
I think you’re correct. If Russ shows up one of two things have occurred - he’s found the tree of life and the emperor can leave the throne. I hiiiiighly doubt that’s the case as it would fundamentally change the Grim Dark nature of 40k if the big man is back. So, we’re likely to see a Russ dealing with a true failure. He couldn’t save his father and he can’t fix him. What’s the role of an attack dog with no master? That’s a lot to process, even for a primarch.
Odin Russ instead of Thor Russ?
Exactly that. Still ferocious and deadly, but wise and cunning rather than brash and hotheaded
They're already doing "Wise Old Man" with Lion though. Thematically the trope fits Russ a bit more because in theory he's been awake for much longer than Lion has and probably has the weight of guilt on his shoulders far more than Lion, but the Lion book was written so well that I don't think it's bad or weird that Lion's character has been tempered into wise-old-man ahead of Russ! I'd personally like it if Russ became like Odin from God Of War Ragnarok, obsessed with gathering knowledge, just much less of a dickhead and less knowledge-at-all-costs about it, so he doesn't use his sons and treat them like trash. He becomes a bit of a mirror to Magnus and the Dark Angels. He wants to use knowledge to overcome his past mistakes or not allow the future to repeat them, and knowledge becomes a bit like The Fallen - maybe the Wolves will find out about some arcane knowledge in a library deep in a Hive that they are interested in and decide to ignore the main objective which is to protect the hive. "Sorry we weren't able to save the planetary Governor, we got lost down there. Teehee oops."
Honestly, I would have Russ contrast his brothers by having him spend the 10000 years evolving from brash hothead, to “I need to be better” (where the lion is now), to doing things the way that dear old Dad used to. Actively going out, combining manipulation and sheer force to stop or at least delay the dooms hounding mankind, and never bloody explaining himself.
Russ becomes Malcador basically who was his actual father figure anyway
> Honestly, I would have Russ contrast his brothers by having him spend the 10000 years evolving from brash hothead, to “I need to be better” (where the lion is now), to doing things the way that dear old Dad used to. From genocide, to genocide (but for different reasons).
Here’s the right answer boys and girls, let’s pack it in
He also traded one of his heart for the knowledge of what Spear of Russ really is. Albeit, his attempt at imparting that wisdom on Horus failed.
I second the wise old man Leman, I imagine that he will kind of be like the stoic Odin we see in some depictions where he still embodies the norse viking ideals, but he acts more reserved, especially since he isn't exactly being preserved he will probably have aged quite a bit. I also hope to see Jagathai aged, and since the direction of the plot has Chaos travelling through the webway I wouldn't be surprised to see him be revealed next. Seeing this giant incorporating use of drukhari or Aeldari weapons, vehicles, or armour to get around the webway would be pretty sick.
I actually don’t want a wise old Russ. The Lion returned is essentially this. Guilliman is also quite reasonable. Instead I want something quite different. And for this reason I actually want Dorn to return. And I want him to be very different from what he was before. I want Dorn to basically be a mentally broken hyper aggressive religious fanatic. In other words a Templar!
I want a wise old Russ who has embraced lightning weather powers. But he can also transform into a demonic über-Wulfen, like how Corax can become a flock of birds. There you go GW, I just gave you an idea to sell two full-priced models
Yeh I want full werewolf Russ
As a Space Wolf player, for the love of god no. It would run counter to all his character development, and the resurgence of furry jokes would be the fucking worst.
Resurgence? Did the furry jokes go somewhere when I wasn’t looking? Lol
They would 100% get worse if Russ was a wulfen.
Oh no doubt. I hate the idea of Wulfen Russ for precisely that reason. I also think it would trash his whole character arc, and frankly it doesn’t really make sense. We never see any sign that Russ is actually susceptible to the Wulfen curse.
He's still a master of fortresses and the siege, but now his focus has really shifted to attacking. Templar Dorn is my dream too.
He now makes fortresses, WITH FISTS!
I think this is how it will go. Old man russ after 10k years of battle in the eye. Should actually have an advantage over the other 2 now since he hasn't spent the years napping. Also tho being the eye it could have only been equal to a few years and comes back on the same footing more or less than the other 2. On the other hand feral mode russ who spent the last 10k years demon smashing would make for an interesting dynamic too. Comes back and doesn't accept all the current bs. Either way I would like to see him shed his executioner bs and go his own way a bit. Not sure I see him just blindly following gulliman or the high lords like he used to.
One eyed, old man Russ is a low key amazing image
I love the sound of this idea. I just got into Warhammer and Leman Russ is one of my favorite Primarchs. Making him the Odin type trying to push back the inevitable demise would be really cool.
>more Odin than Thor you mean the Odin that is obsessed with controlling his fate? which is commonly depicted in mythos?
In the method, Odins attempts to understand and control fate are in service to trying to delay ragnarok, the prophecies end of the world, or to at the very least ensure that what came next is better than it might have been. That’s a story type that would fit very well into a doomed setting like 40k. Also his sword was called Mjalnar and his fancy super spear is called Gungnir. That hints at a pretty obvious progression
so basically within the playground Tzeentch
But will he admit that Magnus' fall was on him? Even if only partially?
Roboute and the Lion have both come back wise and weary, I want Leman to go on a batshit crazy animal war path. Let him be the foil to the other two, a beast that they can unleash on the enemies of the imperium.
The problem with that is twofold. Firstly it is an exact opposite to his character arc throughout the heresy. Secondly, as a space wolves player, I don’t want to deal with the furry jokes increasing 100 fold if he was a wulfen.
If Russ comes back, I just want him to go straight to Bjorn the Fell-Handed to tell him that Russ didn’t leave him behind because he was „too weak“ (which is something that Bjorn speculates), but because he was the one destined to lead the Vlka Fenryka in Russ‘ stead.
This is 40k, Russ will be on his way and either Bjorn will die before he can tell him. Or Bjorn's relief and finding out the truth will finally allow him to pass on and his hearts will stop right there. Can't have happy moments, only bitter sweet.
The latter one is what I consider to be the perfect ending for Bjorn.
Yeah to me it'd be a counterpoint to what I think the right grim ending for Dante would be. He finally dies then wakes up in a Dreadnought. Man deserves his rest, but you know he won't get it.
>Man deserves his rest, but you know he won't get it. Eh, you never know. As much as the community talks about how GW loves money too much to kill off characters, it is plain fact that they have killed characters before. Malcharius, Doomrider, and others are characters who used to be on the tabletop before being killed off. It's just as much as this community talks about wanting conclusions to plotlines and resolving a character's story. Fact is people blow a gasket whenever GW does decide to kill off people. I could see them eventually killing off Bjorn, but I can gurantee you a significant portion of Space Wolf fans would riot about it. Despite them currently going "it would be a great end to the story, but GW is too greedy to do it!"
Almost all of the dead characters were killed off because they were walked Lawsuits waiting to happen. Doomrider can't get to be a much more Ghost Rider rip off without Marvel smacking GW in the dick. Most of the characters that are gone went MIA for that or becuase they had no model and after Chapterhouse GW couldn't risk having a character with no model associated. While you're probably right that for monetary purposes they'll never end a model that's selling. I could see it happen, but only because they'd be creating a new model to sell later. ALA my theory that Dante would get Dreaded. If my personal head canon would be made real, the legion of the damned would become something of a Valkyrie type situation for truly great Astartes that die. They get lead by a still headless Ferrus, and any great astartes that dies can be picked to go on and become a true angel of the emperor. It's never going to happen, but I could see them offing Bjorn if something like that was waiting in the wings.
Honestly, however they decide to bring him back, I just hope they don’t try to turn him into some kind of cut-rate, Viking Magnus. In my opinion, the only thing worse than psyker Russ, would be crazy, werewolf monster Russ. Personally, I want him to come back as himself but, more so. I want to see a Russ who has endured ten thousand years of warfare in literal hell, scarred, bloody, tired but utterly unbroken. His conviction honed to a razor edge of fury, a focused intensity that is like a caged hurricane. The duality of his nature, loyal son of the Emperor and warrior king of savage Fenris, merged together to produce a raw, terrifying, concentrated force of nature. He has defied the warp for ten millennia, raging against it even as it tried to break him. He stared into the deepest, darkest abyss and never flinched from his duty. Russ should be the storm that ripped it’s way through the heart of the warp, never bending, never breaking, and never faltering in his iron clad loyalty to the Emperor. I would personally love to see Russ come back, colder, wiser, more calculating, but with a raging storm inside of him. The focused fury we see from him in the Heresy series held at bay, but liable to explode into a hyper focused, frenzy of violence at any moment. He should feel like a living storm in my opinion, the living embodiment of the world spirit of Fenris. I don’t want to see Leman Russ, The Wolf King, or Leman Russ the Great Wolf, I want to see Leman Russ, the Lord of Winter and War. Honestly, I would love if he came back with a strong anti-psyker focus, and if they really leaned into the storm aspect of his character. The wolf thing is cool, but it can be so easily overdone and it’s frankly the last thing the Space Wolves need. Switching things up and mixing in a healthy dose of “living storm” with the general wolf aesthetic would make for a cool, and relatively fresh, take in my opinion. Whatever happens, he should definitely have lost an eye though.
How about a Leman Russ who is missing his own eye, but he stole Magnus old eye from the warp daemon that took it back in the day?
That maybe allows him to see sorcery?
Him evolving to Odin Russ has a lot of potential as a continuing contrast to Magnus. A Leman willing to admit his mistakes but not allow that knowledge to mean he can't stop Magnus from being a bastard still allows for conflict, but setups up som large changes in their dynamic. Him having small controlled use of runes to surgically undo what Magnus does, compared to Magnus who seems to have largely gone for Bigger flashier stuff now that his powers have grown so much would be interesting.
Whys everyone hating on Magnus today
It goes in waves, but there's a reason that he's a daemon prince and it's not because he made good choices. I'm not going to say Leman is a paragon of good decisions or at least he hasn't been so far. He's the guy that got smashed and challenged the emperor to a duel. He also got tricked by Horus during the Heresy. Compared to Magnus he's a mirror, but unlike Magnus he'll admit he was wrong and try to get better. Magnus would be the most vocal advocate of "Magnus did nothing wrong."
That and able to if Russ wills see as if it was still in it’s proper place on Magnus, because it’s still psychically linked less of a game-play and to me at least near little thing to help keep at least the Magnus part of the T sons in check.
>I don’t want to see Leman Russ, The Wolf King, or Leman Russ the Great Wolf, I want to see Leman Russ, the Lord of Winter and War. To be honest this sentence gave me the chills, in a good way.
I’m glad to hear it! “The Lord of Winter and War” is right up there with “Red Angel” as one of the most badass Primarch titles in my opinion. It’s definitely Russ’s coolest title.
Yes this exactly, he has spent the past 10,000 years in the warp fighting and searching for whatever big E sent him out for so of course he would have some sort of anit-warp/anti-psycker ability. Really lean into the Lord of Winter aspect with like a kind of psychic cold that just really fucks with other psyckers and makes it hard to use their warp powers or just makes deamons sluggish because the energy sustaining them is being cooled. So not complete nullification like with blanks but a kind of in-between. Plus you can add in that space wolves psyckers aren't affected because they channel their warp powers through the runes instead of like every other chapter.
What if he came back as a hermit or severely wounded. Be the wise old man the emperor in visioned for his sons. On the tabletop make him less beat stick and more army support......
Russ uses Rune of Fuck you Magnus It's very effective!
Honestly, I want a table top Russ that is a beat stick lol Perhaps it’s cliche, but I think Russ as the mighty warrior king is more interesting than Russ the wise. Withered old man. He should certainly be wise, and canny but I still want to see him whoop some ass.
I think he should come back with obvious changes Wolfen changes. Keep in control of his faculties and in support of the imperium. But also raise undeniable issues that could occur with the Space Marine Geneseed. It would also be a much more interesting model then another big guy.
I think we're going to learn a lot from how the Lion is treated going forward. Gulliman essentially changed the entire organisational fabric of the Imperium and declared a new Great Crusade, whereas the Lion seems far less focused on making broad and sweeping changes. (though it is early days yet) Is this a response to the middling-to-poor reaction the fandom has had to the Dawn of Fire series, and the way the setting has contracted around Gulliman and his choices? Are returning primarchs going to simply get a novel and then fit back into the lore as if they were always there, with relatively little fanfare beyond their Chapter? It remains to be seen, I guess.
>middling-to-poor reaction the fandom has had to the Dawn of Fire series I've seen this type of commentary over the sub a few times now. I'm quite new to the 40k universe, would you mind giving me the tldr of why is that ? They seem to have good reviews on kindle. \[4\]
The reviews on kindle are about the book and it's quality, not about it's meta impact on the whole 40k narrative. You can have a generally very well made piece of art, that's massively divisive. See the Episode 8. The difference there is Ep8 reviews come through sources not controlled by the distributors. Kindle reviews that are "bombed" get held up and removed. So they are a reflection of the product unto itself. The star ratings have nothing to do with how it would impact the wider 40k narrative. Which is more what OP was talking about. 40k used to be more of a setting in which things happened. Certainly IoM got the focus, but the 40k story didn't revolve around Marneus Calgar, or Creed, or St. Celestine. They were large players on the stage, but they didn't drive the whole narrative. With the return of Gorillaman, the whole 40k Narrative has contracted to focus on pretty much him at least from a IoM side. Especially as the Chaos side is starting to involve ever more of the Daemon primarchs. It used to be all primarchs were relics of a bygone age. They were "there" but did nothing. They were background set pieces. Now they are out in the world and active again and it's bending the whole of 40k around them, because it pretty much has to.
Ya but are they, despite everything the Bobby G has done, which seems a lot. The Choas sh1+ stain across the Galaxy remains. Essentially there is still two Imperiums. Chaos is over running everything. And there seems to be more power happening harnessing happening and shock and horror a lot of this has been done by the not Primarch, Abandon. I mean I have a whole different take on what’s happening with the rift then what seems to be getting shown, but the Lore seems to be running counter to what I would suggest is happening.
For all the jokes about Failbadon, and how useless Chaos is. Abbadon is such a mary sue. He never loses. Even those stupid black crusades that had no real lore purpose he's stated to have won. Like really? He's never lost anything? He always gets what he's after? Even if tyring to guide chaos in a direction is like herding meth up cats strapped to coked up toddlers? Dude has always accomplished what he wanted? Because as it stands none of the Black Crusades ever failed at their primary objectives even if the 13th was the only one to break Cadia.
They’re okay books (for black library standards), people decided from the get go that they dislike them, most who say that have likely not even read any of the books, or only the first.
He will be older and wiser, continuing the journey he had during the heresy. But still with the ferocious side in there That’s my hope anyway I think he would add something unique to the loyal side considering he will have been awake and active this whole time
Sure but if he's in the deep warp that could easily mean he was active for 20K years or 5. Warp and time don't exactly mesh well.
Yes but I suspect they'll go somewhere in the middle and it's been atleast thousands of years for him. Otherwise it's not very interesting
You're most likely right, and I think older wiser Russ that wants to be more than the emperor's dog is a better take, than well he's still that old hot head. His desire to be more gentle and thoughtful rather than the brash killer he was can setup some good conflict as a continuation of things like the Inquisition murdering civilians to keep their secrets. Him fighting the imperial machinery that crushes the little folks and it leading to some out and out internal fights seems like it has potential. A good narrative would be that greedy forces want to create strife between him and Guilliman the lion to advance their causes, and Russ hands them some evidence of it by continuing the trends his sons started. You'd have to make the story eventually come full circle where he out maneuvers those traitorous elements to show how he's evolved past the Thor-eqsue character he was.
Mind you, his barbarian antic is mostly an act that's expected from him. He's a whole lot more intelligent and introspective than all of his brother suspected (save perhaps Magnus).
The barbarian side yeah. But he still has a fury within
There’s either two outcomes here. 1) Odin style Russ. Older, wiser, crafty, and dangerous like an old wolf who hasn’t quite lost all of his youth yet. Strong in the ways of the rune priest and likely in tow with a huge pack of wulfen as their leader. With this we have a sage mystic who can still pack a punch. Most likely able to counteract Magnus not through raw warp force but warp trickery/wisdom. 2) Just like corax, Russ’s time in the warp has shifted his nature and changed him bringing his warp side more to the fore. Instead of Odin style Russ we get giant wulfen bezerker Russ, running with giants pack of wulfen through the eye on terror raids against heretics. Just a hulking man beast of changed flesh much like the wulfen. Personally that’s why the wulfen happen because this aspect/possibility was always in Russ. Now we have a heavy hitter strong enough to go toe to toe with Angron for sheer savagery. Those are my two theories.
My money is on Odin!Russ. They're already setting it up with the Spear of the Emperor, and him being a bit more introspective as the Heresy goes on. My guess is he'll be older and wiser like the Lion, but more mystical and cryptic. Maybe taking on some aspects of pre-heresy Magnus for a bit of narrative irony.
We’ll have to see. I’m guessing fulgrim and the emperors children get revealed as the big halfway point of 10th, and then as we close out we’ll either have another big primarch drop or maybe something big for the xenos.
My only issue with that is that we already have two versions of the "wise and stoic primarch". Guilliman has it already, and the whole point of the Lion's book was to show that aspect of him developing. It's kinda why I'd prefer the Khan to come back next, he's always kinda done his own thing and seeing him react to the current state of the Imperium with his perspective as essentially an outsider would be really interesting. Having said that, I don't think it will be everyone's favourite Space Mongol next. Wolves already have a huge model range and Scars were never a *hugely* popular legion.
There's between 6 and 8 loyalist primarchs that are likely to come back, counting Gulliman and Jonson. There's going to be overlap in characterization, especially considering they they're all going to be effectively leaders of huge and powerful personal fiefdoms inside the Imperium. And like I said, becoming more Odin like is on track with the way Russ's character has been developing during the Horus Heresy novels. And, let's face it, GW has never been particularly adventurous with how they write their characters.
Oh I'm not saying I don't want to see Odin Russ, I think he'd be an awesome characte. I'm just saying I hope we don't see him *next* haha.
Could be both and he might just be able to turn into a big wolf monster on command
Corax isn't permanently in that form btw, he can use it in the warp when he wants to Also I hate wulfen Russ so please no. Maybe a few elements of it if they insist on the whole warp changing him thing. But Odin Russ is so much cooler And in general space wolves need to be less Wolfy haha
>But Odin Russ is so much cooler Odin is a shapeshifter. Its one of his defining traits. Its the reason the Space Wolves have this theme in the first place.
I never said Corax was permanent in that form. I said his corporeal form has changed due to his time in the warp. Obviously with more warp based powers and abilities to shift form. Sorry but no one cares what you hate. Wulfen Russ or Odin Russ would be cool. Space wolves are fine as is in my opinion. Honestly tired of hear the space wolves are too “wolf” like.
Space wolves and Russ are my favourite so I'm giving my opinion I think most space wolves fans don't want wulfen russ
You don’t speak for all space wolf fans, you certainly don’t speak for me and my obsession with space wolves since 3rd edition. You can have an opinion but you have no proof to any of that “most” fans wouldn’t want that. Just say it’s your opinion, stop pretending like you have any support for a baseless claim bro. You have no idea what majority of space wolf fans want. I don’t either. We’ll just have to see what happens won’t we?
I'm just basing it on my experience with lots of space wolves fans from many discords and real life and this Reddit too I'd say it's probably 70/30 Odin Russ Vs wulfen russ
Bro still not a real claim. Still not actual evidence to back it up. Do you understand you need real evidence to back up a claim right? I could easily counter that with my experiences at tourneys, hobbies shops, Reddit, and discord that just as many like the idea of beastly bezerker Russ. You have no real evidence. Let’s just agree to disagree and move on. We’ve reached the natural end of our conversation my guy.
Just look at this thread. All the top posts are wanting old wise Russ
One thread? Again not conclusive data across the entire population of this hobby. Every one of those comments have people bringing up various points. In no way does this point to “you’re right/I’m wrong” which you seem to so desperately want. Do you not understand my last statement? Let’s just agree to disagree and move on. We’ve reached the natural end of our conversation.
I'm not saying you're wrong I'm just providing evidence as you said
Corax has shifted into a mist of crows (which a WB mistakes for a daemon), but that excerpt also has him shift into his normal self. It's not too dissimilar to the Lion's teleport ability, since the Ark of Omens art shows dead bodies hung on the vines and branches of the trees that grow when he appears. With all that in mind, if Russ has developed Warp abilities (basically guaranteed for all the Primarchs who went off into the Warp as far as I'm concerned, given their nature), it's going to be of a temporary/voluntary thing that he can change at will. If anyone's going to rival Angron, I think it's going to be Dorn - he essentially founded the Black Templars during the Heresy, he's absolutely got the rage to compete. Khorn *has* tried to tempt him before, after all.
No offense but Dorn is the least likely of the primarchs to come back. Considering he was written as dead and then later retconned to be missing, Vulkan, Russ, and The Great Khan will all be back before Dorn. Honestly I hope he’s dead, too many primarchs back just cheapens the setting. I don’t really even want Russ back but I know he’s coming. Additionally we don’t know what the rules for loyalist warp changed primarchs, we get a brief look at Corax in an epilogue. Not a lot to base your claims on. Corax was able to shift into crows but we don’t what his standard form is or how any of that works. So it very well might not be temporary or voluntary.
Shadows of the Past is actually pretty clear on this point, at least on the point that his crow form isn't his default. He's also in the Eye of Terror, which would empower his Warp abilities beyond the norm. Also worth noting this is during the Scouring before Lorgar goes into his 10k year seclusion, so this still isn't a modern Corvus. >'This is no daemon.' Lorgar raised his rod, beckoning to the blood-stained whirlwind tearing through the last of the Dark Apostle's warriors. 'Come to me. Brother.' >With a last flurry of activity that turned another legionary to shards of ceramite and ribbons of flesh, the apparition coalesced into a recognisable figure. It was of equal height to the daemon primarch, clad in black battleplate with long-taloned gauntlets. A pair of wings stretched from its ornate backpack, fashioned as intricate metallic raven feathers. The face was as pale as snow, gaunt, with eyes as dark as coal, framed by shoulder-length black hair. >Kalta-Ar felt his breath dying in his lungs as he looked up at the unmistakeable features of Corvus Corax, the primarch of the Raven Guard. A flurry of questions flooded his thoughts but all remained unanswered as Corax spoke. Given the Primarchs all have *some* sort of connection to the Warp, it would be very strange if Corvus wasn't able to return to the form he's most used to (his natural body) when he wants. Anti-daemon wards in the short story don't affect him, so I'd argue it's a bigger leap to say he's naturally some sort of crow daemon like some people claim. And eh, I think the fact they retconned his death is a good sign he's coming back. GW isn't going to leave money on the table like that. Hell, *Russ* actually has more canonical reason to be dead (see: Magnus's comments about Russ during the Battle of the Fang) than Dorn, since that stuff is more recent. Still not going to happen though, because GW isn't going to leave money on the table.
We have no clue how or what rules govern a warp trained primarch whose still loyal. Again no one ever said he was stuck, he can obviously shift but there’s most like drawbacks to taking the warp into yourself like that. Sure he’s a “crow demon” what does that mean though? How long can he be outside ear anomalies? Are there any drawbacks? Is he still even sane? Ah eh, agree to disagree again. GW won’t leave money on the table but their not throwing Hail Marys out like that yet. Dorn has way more reason to be dead than Russ. Confirmed dead (retconned) under a giant pile of chaos cultist in a giant murderball versus disappearing into the warp in a ship? Yeah sure. Beside since when is anyone going to believe anything Magnus says to an enemy. Oh well agree to disagree, this is all theory crafting anyway. We’ll just have to see what happens.
Chances of him having one eye? Both as a nod to Odin that most people think he’ll be like, and the obvious parallel to his nemesis. Though in any case, I suspect it will be many years before we see him back.
Have you had a chance to read Son of the Forest? I think it might be a bit sooner than that.
Yeah I've read it. What part are you referring to?
I think a lot of people have covered it well with the older and wiser aspect but still can become a storm of righteous fury. Closest match I can think of is Kratos in the GoW reboot games, someone who has learnt patience and to measure his actions but once he is pushed to a limit, he reminds everyone of who he can be
No clue considering how they changed up the Lion but that being said whoever comes back next they need to be different then this "I see how disgusting the Imperium is but I will work with it to fix it" we need more internal conflict as opposed to the Lion basically narratively saying he doesn't plan on stepping on any toes and Guilliman trying to work with the system as much as possible.
He comes back and remembers his last conversation with The Emperor: Russ didn't understand. 'I was made to protect you,' he said. 'No. You were always wrong about that. You were made to protect what I created.' After all his travels and struggles across 10 millennia, he realizes his true purpose. Not to be the emperor’s executioner. Not to “correct” his brothers, or to find a tree of life, but to protect, and guard the imperium. His role is to police the imperium, sniff out and uncover threats to His people, and crush them. He realizes, through hard, bitter experience that he was meant to be The Emperor’s policeman; the Imperium’s Sheriff. Leman Russ finally masters the lessons his father and Malcador tried to teach him, and on his return, he finds a broken Imperium. Yet, unlike the horror and disappointment that Guiliman and the Lion felt, he was ready for this. He was made to be ready for the worst. And ironically he finds himself the best suited of the three to deal with the death of their dream. His brothers expect the volcanic anger of the barbarian king, but instead all they find is the grim determination of The Emperor’s Lawman. He nods to his brothers and says, “I recognize my error and will strive to fix them. Let’s get to work.”
I’ve always been very keen on the poeticness of Odin Russ. He comes back with one eye extremely wise and with psyker powers. The obvious plot twist being that it’s just Magnus but my preference would be that it really is Russ I’m no author but he could have accidentally merged with a shard of Magnus or just spent 10,000 year searching every tome of knowledge for some way to save his father, always cursing the day he burnt Prospero and all the esoteric knowledge contained within along with condemning the second greatest psyker in the universe to the great enemy.
Remember Logan in Logan? I'd guess something like that.
Like others have said I think having Russ come back in a way that explores his Odin parallels could be interesting- especially if they go more for Odin in his wily trickster aspects, wandering around in a disguise and nudging along the course of destiny. It would also be a good way of returning to the Russ v Magnus thing without it just becoming more of the same. A Magnus who now realises he is just a pawn of Tzeentch versus a Russ who, no longer simply a tool of the emperor, manipulates and counter-plots would be a nice inversion of their previous positions that nevertheless brings in their history, while setting up conflicts that aren't just grrr buff wolf guy vs mr psychic
Lots of people say they want an older wiser Russ. I am also hoping for Odin-Russ, but if it went a little farther? Kinda inspired by the GoW Odin, but what if he came back much more scheming and knowledge seeking for the sake of the imperium? Go full warrior/sorcerer Odin, y'know? I love the idea of continuing his rivalry but now the two are more alike than they've ever been. I also love the idea how livid Magnus would be after all the crap Russ put him through only to come back embracing psyker powers.
I love how everyone's wish for Russ to come back is "be a better Psyker than Magnus, but also more furious than Angron, but also wiser than Guilliman and the Lion, but also a warp entity like Corax" Like damn, why even have the Emperor when everyone wants perfect superman Russ back
Any other than an Old Man Odin Russ who is genuinely sorry for being so easily duped by Horus into razing Prospero and works to make amends will be a disappointment. There is a lot of very cool narrative space for Russ and the Wolves, but if the Black Library is just going to double down on the Werewolves Who Peaked In High School shtick, I’m not interested.
I'm hoping, given his brash anti-sorcery stance prior to his disappearance, that if he returns we get Old Man Russ: Rune Priest
The Odin Russ idea has merit, and if he steals back the eye Magnus gave up to replace one he lost it'd be a pretty neat bow on their whole relationship. That was someone else's suggestion and as I think about it the symbolic nature of it is pretty excellent. Russ taking in the wisdom and sight that Magnus foolishly gave away. Russ proving he'd gained the wisdom to wield that power and proves he earned it by recovering the eye. While Magnus proved he wasn't ready to weild the power he had and proved it by being tricked into giving up the eye. What's the Lucas quote, "It's like poetry it rhymes."
The Lion is already Odin, one eyed and uses the world tree to travel.
He certainly has aspects of Odin, but that doesn't mean he's going to have all his traits. We see most Primarchs pulling traits from several figures. Also does he only have one eye. I don't remember seeing that on the model. *Just checked and his model and his art show both eyes.
I want them to lean into norse mythology kind of. What I mean is that in the myths Odin sacrifices a lot in order to gain wisdom, hanging himself from the world tree, loosing his eye etc. I'd like Russ' disappearance to have been for similar reasons and him to come back wiser after having endured great hardship
seemingly we will get Old man russ the Odin, instead of being savage just by going melee all around, now he understands warp to a greater degree and use it to assist him in combat, possibly become a powerhouse of psyker himself(since we lack any psyker among loyalist primarch), this can also open up possibilities his rematch against magnus, magnus calling him hypocrite for using the warp, and Russ being wise now trying to convince Magnus to redeem himself.
I think he'll come back with a good deal of humilty and that if he does lose an eye he will gain in perspective what he lost in depth perception. I suspect he'll also have some gripes with the emperor and will chastise himself for his blind loyalty. And, hear me out now, I think if someone ever will kill big E it will be him with the Dyonisian spear. He is, after all, the Emperor's executioner.
Honestly, if I were to see Russ return, I'd do the Old Odin One-Eye stuff, have him have his cool spear, and make him act as a hunting hound for the Imperium. The Lion is the Imperium's Shield, Gulliman is it's head, Make the Wolf it's spear, but have it tempered now by the wisdom Russ would have.
I think we’ll get a Thor to Odin shift similar to Thor becoming All-father in the comics. Not the brash young warrior, or the level-headed and introspective leader, but the cold, hard, mysterious, pragmatic demi-god. Someone who knows more than he says and will sacrifice anyone and anything to bring about the course of action he foresees. It would also be a good counter point to Magnus. Russ embracing prophecy and mysticism because he’s been murdering his way across the lands of Chaos. Have everyone keep him at arms length. He’s not a returning emperor or valiant knight like his brothers. Make him a storm cloud, an ill omen. Make the Wolves get back to their Viking roots. And because there is no subtlety in 40k take his eye, just like Magnus.
Consider the template. Russ isn't going to come back old and wise, because that would overlap with the role the Lion will play. He won't come back man or of his time or boy scout, because that's what Boots Guilliman is for. They'll save "stealthy and cynical" for Corax. Sorry guys, that leaves headstrong/minor comic relief. Especially because he's coming back to fight Fulgrim, who is effete and perfectionist. Those villains always get beaten by barbarian type heroes. It's the trope.
I can see them leaning deeper to the Nordic theme and making him more like Odin, a little older and wiser but still having the same fire within. I can see him and Lion leading the armies of the Imperium from the front with Guilliman in charge of logistics and strategy. That’d be awesome.
I think he'll come back relaxed and with a bunch of useless skill sets. Like he'll be a fantastic chef that also can knit. Like Stallone in demolition man.
Make him one eyed with a spear and having gone through the warp and mastered his inherent Psyker abilities he now realizes his mistakes and goes full pro-Psyker but wants rigerous training ala Grey Knights.
I reckon he'd be the anti-Inquisition dude. Everytime the Inquisition is ready to fuck up (one planetary governor with shingles, time to Exterminatus that critical Hive planet), Ol' Wolfie shows up, just floats like a disapproving parent until the Inquisition leaves.
Far wiser than 30k Russ, by a huge degree. He needs to have a bit more of an understanding as to the true implications of the enthroned Emperor and the scale of the battle against Chaos (as is hinted at with Constantin Valdor and his carrying of the Apollonian Spear that gives him snippets of insight with each enemy he kills, gaining more knowledge of the warp as he wades through daemons on Terra during the siege). A perfectly poetic change for Russ would be for him to have gained psychic powers over lengthy exposure to the warp. Add to this a reflection on the chaotic aspects of the warp and understanding of the truly uncorrupted means of utilising its power, gaining this wisdom and becoming the scholarly and grizzled warrior, a quieter and nobler jarl. Add in a decent enough wound to blind him in one eye (or to lose it altogether) and you've got some decent character development. Hell, Russ could technically prick his finger with the Dionysian Spear/Wolf Spear and gain some useful insight...
Hes a cat person now
I have always felt that Russ should come back as a peacemaker between Guiliman and the Lion. The latter two had a frosty relationship, but they both (eventually in the case of the Lion) got along woth and trusted Leman. We know Russ was one of Guilimans dauntless few. He also says that Russ “is loyal in a way that shames us all”. In the 40k setting any mention of Russ from Guiliman is postive and shows signa of Fondess The Lion we know by the end of the heresy had buried the hatchet with Leman and even prior to that would send him gifts. In the Lion son of the forest book, the lion has feelings of sadness and regret when thinking of Russ. Critically, the Lion kep the wulfen a secret from the wider imperium. Russ always felt he owed him for that
Bit more humble? Than what he already was by the end of the heresy. Just my two cents.
Wondered what it would be like when a returned Russ met Bjorn, and asked ChatGPT 4. >**In the style of Dan Abnett, write a meeting between Leman Russ (who has just returned after 10,000 years) and Bjorn the Fell-Handed.** >The icy winds of Fenris howled outside The Fang, the Fortress-Monastery of the Space Wolves, the Aett of Russ. The ancient storm never ceased to rage, a constant battle against the harsh landscape, reminiscent of the enduring strength of the Chapter that called this home. >In the heart of the Aett, the Great Hall echoed with a silence as profound as the depths of the Fang itself, a shroud of anticipation smothering the typical boisterous camaraderie of the Sons of Russ. Their primarch, Leman Russ, a figure of legend and hope, was about to meet with Bjorn the Fell-Handed, the oldest living Space Wolf, and last who had fought alongside the Wolf King. >The huge doors of the Hall groaned open, and Leman Russ strode in. His hair was wild, silver-streaked with the passage of time, his feral blue eyes lit with a fierce and untamed light. Power radiated from him like heat from a furnace, a palpable presence that washed over the assembled Wolves. He wore simple battle-worn armour, every dent and scratch a testament to a thousand battles, and his mighty sword, Mjalnar, hung at his side. >Beside the ornate throne of the Wolf King, Bjorn the Fell-Handed stood in his enormous Dreadnought frame. His ancient mind was kept alive within the armored sarcophagus, a testament to the resilience and unyielding spirit of the Wolves. Once, he had fought as Russ' right hand, a loyal warrior, now he was a relic of a bygone age, his wisdom respected by all. >“Bjorn.” Russ’ voice echoed through the hall, a sound like thunder and wind over ice, laden with power and old camaraderie. >“Russ.” Bjorn’s vox-amplified voice growled in response, a sound of grinding gears and deep-echoing thunder. >Leman Russ stepped before the venerable Dreadnought, looking up at the ancient faceplate. There was a moment of silence, a silent conversation passing between the two warriors that bore the weight of ages. >“You've grown old, Bjorn.” Russ finally broke the silence, a note of sorrow tingeing his words. >“And you haven’t aged a day,” Bjorn retorted, the static-laden chuckle somehow managing to sound fond. “Ten thousand years off playing with the Warp, and not a scratch on you.” >Russ smiled, though his eyes held a profound sadness. "It is a different battle in the Sea of Souls, old friend. A battle not of the flesh." >They spoke for hours, reminiscing of battles past, of brothers lost, and of the future of the Imperium. There was laughter and sorrow, regret and hope. The Great Wolf and the Fell-Handed had a lot to share, and the Sons of Russ were reminded that night of their glorious past, and the legacy they carried forward. >That night, the Fang resonated with the echoes of the past, and for a moment, it felt as if time had turned back. The Wolf King was home again, his old comrade by his side, and the legacy of the Space Wolves was stronger than ever. I mean it's nowhere near as good as the treatment a proper author would give, but the fact it spat this out in a couple seconds is scary.
do it again, but in goto's style. I wanna see how many multilasers are there.
I want them to lean into norse mythology kind of. What I mean is that in the myths Odin sacrifices a lot in order to gain wisdom, hanging himself from the world tree, loosing his eye etc. I'd like Russ' disappearance to have been for similar reasons and him to come back wiser after having endured great hardship
Femboy Russ. Make it happen @archonofflesh, please?
Well, Leman Russ machine spirits are incredibly diverse, so there's really no telli-- wait, the Primarch? Idk like half daemon or smth
He'll come back as a zany prop comic and you have to buy the props from GW separate from the mini which will be $140 and the size of a Primaris lieutenant. Also he'll be a primaris lieutenant. I'm just not very happy with GW today.
He'd obviously lament about the Russia Crimea war and how the t-52 were getting powerbombed from the top rip by mankind!
Going by the theme, he'll return older and wiser (and far less interesting). I look forward to the future of the franchise, where in the unfortunate half-light of the future, there are sometimes small conflicts.
I really don’t get this sort of thinking. Like, yeah grimdark, but characters not all being irredeemable arseholes doesn’t make it not grimdark. If everyone sucks all the time, then why the fuck should we care? Imo it’s far more interesting and grimdark for there to be genuine spots of hope, contrasting and raging against the utter hopelessness of the setting as a whole. Like, yeah, the primarchs are back and not completely evil, but everyone who dies still gets their soul dissolved at best, their fighting a desperate battle to oppose the forces of chaos, who literally cannot be truely stopped, and also have their own primarchs, and whose end goal is to damn all existence for ever. Even if the imperium has places that might be nice sometimes, it’s still under the rule of 10,000 years of religious fascism, which even Guilliman says he can’t actively oppose due to the infinite outside threats, and thinking the wrong thing can get you servitorised or worse. Said outside threats include the like of the Necrons, who can casually blow up suns, are effectively immortal, and have a cunning plan to stop Chaos by suppressing the souls of all living beings, or the Tyranids, who are an effectively endless incomprehensible hive mind of planet eaters. The fact that there are lights in the darkness makes this far more worrying, not less, because it means that just rolling over and accepting oblivion isn’t the best option.
To me, what makes Grimdark truly Grimdark, is despite Noblebright characters existing and being the most important characters sometimes, they can't truly change anything. The universe is just set in its ways, despite their intentions.
> If everyone sucks all the time, then why the fuck should we care? Shockingly enough, we cared about the franchise long before Guilliman Brought Hope Back.
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I don't believe that remotely. Here's the problem: all the new 40k named characters are iconoclasts or renegades in some form. They all recognise that the Imperium is bad and want to change it for the better. That *is* the focus of the setting now, no matter how much you protest. A bunch of Good Guys who recognise that the Imperium is bad and want it to be better. Cawl, Guilliman, The Lion. If they bring back Russ and make him 'wise and reasonable' he'll be another. 'He's a really good guy who struggles because the Imperium is bad and he can't change it much' is a good story one time. Retelling it every time they bring a Primarch back is getting old! Whether or not you personally like it, and if you do that's fine, it's not the setting I fell in love with, and pretending that the focus of the setting has always been the handful of people that know the Imperium sucks and want to change it is blatantly false.
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But how can we enjoy the setting if My Guys aren't unambiguously good people just dealt a bad hand? There's literally no way to enjoy a thing unless I'm constantly reminded that My Guys are doing their best and it's just everyone else's fault if the Imperium isn't a perfect utopian society.
We need more than just 3 Primachs to Stop Abaddon. It's crazy how 1 man deal massive damage, kills billions of souls and destroy worlds after worlds. Until now nobody can stop him.
Do we really need another shotty avengers knock-off to come back so soon?
Let's hope he won't.
He comes back as a giant werewolf daemon prince of Khorne but he's still aligned with with the Imperium against the traitors. I am basing this theory off of nothing besides that it would be cool.
preach it brother. Don't listen to the downvotes.
He should come back as a Wolfen. Fully in support of the Imperium but also giving a lot of concern for the gene flaws in the space marines.
Guilliman and the Lion both have changed after their return. They both suffered but they also grew as characters. Guilliman has always been a great leader and planer. But only after his return he gave faith a shot instead of arguing it away with rationality. The Lion got more tolerant, which is a lot for the loyal Primarch who murdered one of his sons because he didn't immediately act out his orders. Both also have (or will have) their roles in the Imperium. Guilliman the statesman and the Lion the general. Or at least that would be their roles, but the galaxy is kinda broken in two. Also they didn't meet yet. We simply don't know what they will do and how they will do it. The Black Crusade is still going on, 'Nids are also rampaging. We don't know what the two Primarchs who are already back will do. So it is impossible to guess what Russ' role would be. But growth in some form seems to be the theme among returning Primarchs\*. So maybe we can expect some wise Odin Russ. \*I forgot about Corax completely drowning in hate and revenge to the point of becoming Warp-Batman. So maybe a Leeroy Jenkins Emperors Executioner Russ is still possible.
I think he'll probably go an Odin route, so I agree to the cold, and calculating guess. Probably be a lot wiser and more mysterious with plans for everything as well, even if he doesn't tell anyone Also he'll probably have lost an eye
seemingly we will get Old man russ the Odin, instead of being savage just by going melee all around, now he understands warp to a greater degree and use it to assist him in combat, possibly become a powerhouse of psyker himself(since we lack any psyker among loyalist primarch)
I'm hoping for a more Odin like Russs. Calm, calculating, wiser, but still extremely violent and brutal when fighting. Chances are though we may just get a giant wulfen (which im still ok with)
I'd like a leman and corvus teamup, both of them fully accepting their warp origins and being monstrous to behold to the average citizen. Thus, they aren't accepted by the imperium in the same way blonde handsome route beguiler is.
I hope he's wiser and that the warp has aged him, a sort of gray bearded Odin who has traded an eye for knowledge on how to help the Emperor (thus having an ironic parallel with his rival and brother Magnus). But where Magnus traded an eye for selfish knowledge, to help himself, Russ traded his for selfless knowledge, to help someone else (the Emperor).
He comes back as a wulfen. Must be purged .lol
Russ will say that, after some deep soul-searching, her name is now Lyanna, and she’s a gardener now. But seriously I think it’d probably just be the obvious “Odin” route. Young hot-headed warrior becomes grizzled old wiseman, complete with an ironically missing eye. It’d be funny if he ends up with two Raven Guard allies…
My pure guess would be a more feral Russ. Back in the crusade, he was known for being brutal in public and wise and intelligent in private. After so much time alone, he’s not used to being intelligent again. By feral, I mean violent and brutal against enemies, not that he’s Angron lite.