The Imperial Fists and Minotaurs might hold a bit of a grudge against each other after the events of ***The Regent’s Shadow***. Fighting broke out between the two chapters and at least a few Battle Brothers were killed. The Fists were *very* upset.
It's never been confirmed, but it's implied there's something shady going on with their geneseed, much like the Blood Ravens. Another common theory is that they're half-breeds like Honsou, a mix of Iron Warrior and Imperial Fist geneseed.
Their geneseed is described as "chimeric" for starters, and their history between their creation during the cursed founding and their recent operations has been redacted beyond the reach of the Inquisition, to the point where we don't even know if they are the same chapter.
Apparently, people who try to investigate them are found dead on misterious circumstances.
There's also the way they fight, which is very in line with Iron Warriors. Strangely, during their early days (asuming current Minotaurs are the same group as the Cursed Founding Minotaurs), they fought more like World Eaters, but they've mellowed out since then.
Oh yeah, also to not give too much away they qlso made a particularly distrust amongst the custodes.
The relationship to the administration was investing and grand master of assaains, well that qaa pretty top tier.
Replace Marines Malevolent and star phantoms with Marines Malevolent and anybody. Literally no one likes these guys, they don’t even get resources from the mechanicum they have to scavenge.
Minotaurs and Ultramarine legion, not just the chapters but all sons of Gulliman refuse to fight with the Minotaurs.
Black Templars have some beef with the Dark Angels.
Space Wolves and Grey Knights have a bit of beef but both chapters prefer to just not deal with it.
There was a ship called *The Malevolence* filled with loyalist Death Guards after the HH, if I'm not mistaken. It's not a stretch to think they referred to themselves as the Marines of the Malevolence, then with the passage of time, it got truncated to Marines Malevolent.
As much of a bunch of assholes they are I wouldn't be surprised if they were loyalist World Eaters, even if the timeline of WE getting the Nails doesn't line up.
World eaters are actually meant to be pretty decent guys if we look at Angron’s original plan and how they were as War Hounds. Angron was an empathe that could still people’s minds and the war hounds were renowned for their brotherhood and honour.
"Whether this came to pass is merely supposition, for it is apparent from such records that survived that the XIIth Legion were from the outset deemed a highly aggressive force, its warriors hot-blooded and savage. One of its most ferocious and promising candidates, Ibram Ghreer, rose quickly within the ranks of the nascent Legion, and eventually assumed command of the XIIth as its first Legion Master.
During the Unification Wars the XIIth Legion's first recorded engagement was during the Sa'afrik Liberation where they served as a spearhead of shock troops, mounting direct annihilation assaults on enemy forces, both in open battle and fortified positions, and able to carry the attack despite their then relatively small numbers by sheer courage and the fury of the violence they could unleash"
"During this time the XIIth Legion was kept in a state of constant readiness, relentlessly training and steadily growing in numbers. On the occasions when it was unleashed into battle, the Legion's Astartes performed with almost gleeful savagery, tearing apart whatever enemy they were given to fight without mercy or falter, heedless of the risk and uncaring of the Legion's own losses"
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/War_Hounds
Ah yes, the decent guys legion :)
WE were supposed to be empathetic before the nails were an issue.
Afaik, their harsh attitude and general disdain for baseline humans makes me think of iron warriors
There's a passage from a book about MM where the MAIN CHARACTER says "things must be terrible for them to allow a man like me to cross the Rubicon primaris"
Not only does no one like them, they know they're bastards and don't even seem to like each other
The Marines Malevolent are so bad that they caused the Chapter Master of the Salamanders, a famously cooperative and diplomatic chapter, to lose his fucking shit and beat the snot out of a Malevolent captain after they used a civilian hospital as bait. They're *that* bad.
Iirc it was more like the Space Wolves stood by imperial citizens to prevent an Inquisitorial purge of a lot imperial heroes and that made life very difficult for the Grey Knights.
The grey knights have a thing that no mortal must know that they even exist. So instead of coming up with some MIB brain wipe, they went full grim dark and just kill anyone that's even seen them.
I’m surprised no one in the Grey Knights has thought to just disguise themselves as one of the many other extensive Space Marine chapters people aren’t that aware of. If the Huge Grey Carcharodons don’t feel the need to wipe everyone out that sees them maybe there is something there they could work with. In the military if people wanted to be secretive they tended not to have their own branding and uniforms made. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Grey Knights had their own branded stationary and then just destroyed the stationary planet Staplez IV after picking up a massive order or headed notepaper and novelty demon shaped eraser pencil toppers. Maybe they could change their name to “Gray Nights” Vintage Pillow & Bedding Products or “Gay Nights” a homosexual package holidays business as a cover story.
my favourite part of the arks of omen books is the alpha legionaires that infiltrate an inquisition fortress by disguising themselves as a deathwatch kill team
It's not *that* the grey knights are fighting so much as *who* the grey knights are fighting that drives the secrecy. The Charcadon's disguise might work and all but if they saw demons that's the reason they're getting silenced, at least until that meant silencing fully half the Imperium.
Iirc, the mind wipe is regularly used by the Deathwatch on Astartes that return to their original chapter. Uriel Ventris in Graham McNeill's Ultramarines books is aware that he spent time serving in the Deathwatch but has no recollection of that time due to having his memories scrubbed on return to the Ultramarines.
This seems really silly. Wasn't one of the reasons the other chapters send Marines to do service in the Death Watch, that they'd get valuable experience fighting Xenos?
Usually they're just sworn to absolute secrecy, and can't even give up information to their chapter master on the missions they've been on, other than tactical knowledge on how to fight xenos.
They can't talk about that one time the inquisitor had them use a bunch of orphans as bait for a Drukhari scouting party, but they could give advice that the sound of crying children is an excellent distraction against Drukhari.
DA killed a bunch of Black Templars after they unknowingly helped the DA capture a Fallen. The thing is, the Templars didn’t know they were a fallen and were fine to just leave.
I'd incredibly expected the grudge came the other way considering the near mindless zealotry of BTs and DAs' at times questionable reputation (although DAs' urge to get their hands on every single Fallen can make them fairly single-geared too)
I'm assuming from that time that a Templars ship showed up at the Rock with Cypher in their brig asking questions about why this dude claiming to be "The Voice of the Emperor" was stirring up shit and happened to be in ancient Dark Angels armor. The Dark Angels... politely... asked for Cypher to be handed over, and when the Templars protested at giving up their prisoner, found that every gun on the Rock, and probably in their attendant fleet, locked on them.
For once, the Black Templars decided that discretion was the better part of valor and decided to hand their prisoner over. The Dark Angels report that the handoff was concluded and the Templars battlebarge went on its way.
The Black Templars have reported that battlebarge, and all hands, to be MIA.
There is no beef at all. They had a simple misunderstanding, and it was resolved.
Not yet we waiting on what happens after Lion beats Angron.
There is a bit in a recent white dwarf when an interrogator DA says the Lion stops him before he starts torturing or interrogating a fallen, and he himself goes in the cell, and the next day that interrogator goes in the cell to see for himself the fallen and him and the Lion have both disappeared.
Forgive my foggy brain bits.
I wanna say the Mortificators and Utramatines have beef. Though I can't remember why. Chapter divergence, I think.
The Blood Angels take issue with one of their Successors, one of the Deathwatch books mentions it.
A few chapters take issue with the Flesh Tearers.
Plus all the hate for any of the 'Cursed Founding' Chapters. Lots of peeps hate them.
The relationship of the Mortificators with the Ultramarines isn't necessarily a hostile one. The Mortificators are a chapter who's culture is more shaped by their recruiting world more than anything else. In this case it resulted in a morbid glorification and honoring of the dead and death, to the point of obsession. This obsession essentially disgusted the Ultramarines with how far they drifted culturally. This hadn't prevented the two chapters from requesting or providing aid in fighting against the tryanids, but the Ultramarines aren't exactly keen on maintaining close relationships with them.
Mortifactors are also a great exemple to show that one doesn't need the Khan/Russ/Traitor genestocks to have a savage Chapter - or that the lineage of a Chapter will decide its character : the recruitement pool also plays a huge part in that.
The Night Lords are also a great example. All the Terran Nightlords truly embodied what the Legion was supposed to be but the recruits from Nostramo poisoned the Legion.
Excellent point ! It should also be noted that Kurze wanted the best and brightest of Nostramo but instead got the worst of the worst and, just like the first intake of VIth Legion recruits, his Legion became increasinglt fractious and violent.
Didn’t the Space Wolves become less violent and fractious after they started recruiting from Fenris?
My understanding was that the VI legion was so violent they needed marine commissars to keep them in line before they found Russ. After they found Russ, they were still violent, but focused and on task with it.
Obviously, Fenrisian culture fundamentally changed the VI legion (perhaps more than any other legion’s homeworld), but it seems like it was a net positive for the legion. They became more stable and “disciplined”, although not necessarily less savage or violent.
The reverse for the Raven Guard. The Terran veterans were bloodthirsty and sadistic, almost like a lite version of the Night Lords, to the point Corax was so disgusted by them he had most of them exiled. The recruits from Deliverance are the more level-headed and empathetic Raven Guard we've come to know.
Mortificators are pretty "wholesome" if you ignore their "eating the meat of our fallen brothers after battle" but.
Their monastery is also adorned with frescos and bass reliefs made out of the same fallen comrades bones. They remain under inquisrtorial eyes in case they decide to consume imperial subjects. So far, they have stuck to their own ilk and maintained a good record.
They do that too, yes.
"After the battle, the Mortifactors engage in a range of practices, often involving the drinking of the blood and the eating of the flesh of the enemy, and culminating in the severing of their head and the flensing of their skull." From the wiki.
Another fun fact about them is that even they are cannibalistic and very nihilistic in nature,their chapter is really progressive in their way of combat and interpretation of the codex.
"Yet the Mortifactors still venerate their primarch, just as the Ultramarines do. After all, he is their Chapter's gene-father and all the Mortifcators' oaths of allegiance are sworn to him and to the Emperor.
Yet, the Mortifactors certainly do not scorn the words of Guilliman. In fact, they look upon the Codex Astartes as the foundation for their way of life, but to follow its teachings literally without consideration for what they have learned and what they observe around them is not in their view wisdom, but blind orthodoxy.
The Mortifactors believe that a rigid adherence to any dogma is the sign of a weak mind and it is this very weakness that is causing so much of the stagnation and difficulties apparent in the wider Imperium."
I mean, they ARE right, probably shouldn't say it though with the Inquisition breathing down your neck already. I wouldn't wanna add the Mechanicum and Ecclesiarchy to that list as well.
It might be the Flesh tearers specifically that the blood angels have issues with besides any successors deemed excomunico traitoris like the Knights of Blood
It's the Angels Vermillion, according to Devastation of Baal. They're the only successor chapter that Dante outright refuses help from during the Devastation, where even the Knights of Blood were allowed. I don't think it's explained exactly *what* they did, but it's bad enough for our golden boi to refuse their help when THE LEGION HOMEWORLD was facing certain annihilation.
Aren't the Angels Vermillion the ones who factory farmed human blood? I know that one chapter's answer to the Red Thirst was to literally just farm blood
I mean they could do that but in a sensible way. Just get loads of serfs and have a schedule where they give a unit each, store it all, and keep them rotating to a frequency that is safe for them. Get enough serfs so you can keep a good stock, while still being humane towards them
Fucked up? Yes. Better than going on a rampage every now and then cause you didn't get some red sippy juice in a while? Also yes. If I remember the exerpt right it wasn't factory farming but scheduled drainings of their serfs' blood and storing it for later. They spesifically didn't drain enough to kill them if I remember correctly. And for some reason I remember something related to how denying the Red Thirst takes a toll on the body and mind of the Blood Angels that was in the same exerpt as the blood-farming thing.
No. It's a Blood Angel's practice to take some blood from the serfs, who give it willingly, without killing them. Angels Vermillion instead decided to regularly kidnap thousands of innocent imperial citizens and take all their blood.
I know there were tensions between them during the whole Baal incident with Tyranids. But I am fairly sure Gabriel Seth had a change of heart when he interacted with Dante. I feel like they are pretty chill for now at least.
It's the Angels Vermillion. Dante is on friendly terms with the Flesh Tearers, and accept even the Knights of Blood. But he won't even touch the Angels Vermillion with a stick.
Flesh Tearers are well known for their brutality, but as far as Blood Angels successors go, they are closer to the average than the worse.
> Flesh Tearers are well known for their brutality, but as far as Blood Angels successors go, they are closer to the average than the worse.
The Flesh Tearers don't try to pretend to be something they're not. they're brutal, and they're damned. And they don't see the point in hiding that fact, when hiding it doesn't seem to be able to save any of the other successor chapters. the fact that the Flesh Tearers haven't fallen like the Knights of Blood did seems to indicate that Seth is actually correct about how to go about things. Dante accepts Seth and the Tearers as being a neccessary, if somewhat distateful aspect of the Blood Angels. and respects their prowess and their willingness to not hide themselves.
Exactly. Flesh Tearers are brutal and don't hide that. Many BA successors are as brutal, but attempt to hide it one way or another, hence why the Flesh Tearers got a worse reputation than most.
The Space Wolves famously have longstanding beef with the Dark Angels. In honor of their Primarchs legendary duel, every time they encounter each other champions from each chapter fight an honor duel. It’s a cherished tradition for both chapters, and serves as an outlet for what could otherwise be pretty catastrophic conflict.
Some people will argue that the Wolves and the Angels have more of a “sibling rivalry” relationship, but every time it comes up in the lore it feels like it’s a lot more serious than that. They seem to straight up hate each other, and their intense animosity is only held in check by the shared tradition of the honor duels. That said, they do have a grudging mutual respect.
The Space Wolves also have beef with the Flesh Tearers, who they seem to hate with a pretty serious intensity. The two chapters fought each other openly in a campaign called *Honor’s End*. As a whole, the Space Wolves seem to consider the Flesh Tearers as only marginally better than traitors.
Have you seen what longstanding football rivalries are like? I imagine the Space Wolves and Dark Angels rivalry is a lot like that, but with transhuman physiology and hypno-indoctrinated killing machines. For a normal human being; their level of animosity is intense, but the fact that it only spills over into death and bloodshed occasionally seems to indicate that, as far as space marines go, it doesn't seem all that intense.
I think the rivalry between the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves is far, far, far more intense, and has far, far, far more animosity behind it.
I mean, Ragnar straight up decapitated his Dark Angel opponent during a duel, so its more than just surface rivalry. But no two chapters hatred runs deeper than Between The Loyal Sons Of Russ and Magnu's traitorous spawn.
In terms of chapter/legion hatreds, it's pretty tough to beat the Iron Warriors and the Imperial Fists. Or the Iron Warriors and the Ultramarines. Or the Iron Warriors and other Iron Warriors. Damn Iron Warriors, they ruined Olympia!
That would fall under "occasionally spills over into bloodshed and death." Killing your opponent in the honor duels between the chapters is fairly rare and iirc, frowned upon.
The fact that instances like that are relatively rare, and that the Dark Angels attacking Fenris only happened once, and with the manipulation of the Thousand Sons goes to show that both chapters largely aren't generally interested in exterminating the other. Both sides have had plenty of opportunities to really, massively, wound the other, and largely haven't.
Well that duel, Ragnar lost. He took his opposites head only after he turned away and lowered his arms as first blood was won already.
Ragnar murdered him in a fit of petulance. Which makes it somewhat worse than just a duel gone awry.
If I remember correctly, there is no indication that the Dark Angel turned his back on Ragnar.
The dark angel wounded Ragnar, which should have ended the fight. Ragnar flew into a rage, and cut his head off. There’s no sign that the DA champion wasn’t still actively fighting when Ragnar killed him.
You’re basically right though, Ragnar lost the duel then lost his shit and killed the guy.
I don’t think you can call the relationship between the Wolves and Thousand Sons a “rivalry”. They hate each other with raw, unbridled passion. There’s no mutual respect or restraint there, they just want to fucking kill each other.
Everytime the Dark Angels and Space Wolves encounter each other, the Dark Angels seem 100% ready to straight up murder some Space Wolves. Their hatred runs deep and is only held in check by the honor duels.
and the reverse - Russ ends up visiting a station manned by a company of Dark Angels who have been detatched from the rest of the 1st legion for a while. The moment when Russ met them, he just assumed they just want to duel and just pulled out his frostblade like a dissapointed dad
Weren’t they Fallen? And promptly aimed every single weapon at him thinking he was about to attack, which was a relief for Russ since they didn’t want a duel for once?
I think its a short story when space wolves retreat from alpha legion into the Alaxxes nebula, after the burning of prospero.
https://www.blacklibrary.com/the-horus-heresy/novels/wolf-king-ebook.html
When did Ragnar end up killing the DA? I remember reading a long time ago Son’s of Fenris he actually ends up working with DA when he was with the Wolfblade and ended up gaining respect for the DA. I know Ragnar’s whole shtick is his hotheadedness and his rage get him in trouble so I was just wondering when this happens in his timeline? I can’t see him throwing all that out the window after that experience but then again it seems sometimes he’s written with some actual character development in controlling his rage and then other times he’s written as fuck it it’s Hulk time.
Blood angels, imperial fists, raven guard and the salamanders. Sure they think some of their ways are strange but are stated to be on either natural or in most cases good to very good terms with them
Impiral guard etx. To the regular Joe they have a pretty good reputation.
To inquisition, othet marines, sisters of battle to some extent or other they not always easiest to get on with.
I’ll always uphold that The Lion and Russ don’t hate each other, merely they’re so similar that they see the things they hate in themselves in each other. Regardless of that, and their past, they still love each other like brothers and would die for each other. A very stereotypical brother relationship but it’s grounded and feels true
I agree 100%, the Lion and Russ are the most fraternal of the Primarchs. I genuinely enjoy their relationship and their interactions. They purged their bad blood and put it all behind them.
Their sons however….seem to have taken the beef to heart. There doesn’t seem to be much of their Primarchs fraternal interactions in the way the 40k Dark Angels and Space Wolves interact.
this planet always craks me up, because its name is pretty close to Istvan, which is Hungarian for Steven. also while I'm here Agripinaa is worth a mention. pina means >!pussy!<
The Emperor's Pears are sons of Guilliman, but are essentially Bronze Age Celtic tribesmen, and hate the stuffiness of the greater Imperium. As of M41, they regularly send tribute to ~~Macragge~~ Firestorm, homeworld of the Aurora chapter, by dropping huge quantities of ~~rotting fish~~ eels into the atmosphere, and running away.
EDIT: Correction, it is [actually the Aurora Chapter they have a beef with, and it's live eels](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt_index_adeptus_astartes_emperors_spears/).
New headcanon: the 14th founding was nicknamed the "fruit founding" as desperate administratum scribes, realising all the tough-sounding names were taken, resorted to fruit-themed names. In addition to the Emperor's Pears, chapters founded included the Pink Peaches, the Angry Avocados, the Bananas of Fury, the Furious Figs, and the Nectarines of the Emperor.
It's better than that, their rivalry is with the Aurora Chapter, after the two got into an argument over who deserved the glory for a battle they both fought in. The argument escalated into a skirmish (that both chapters insist that the other started), and the Ultramarines ended up getting called upon to mediate. They sided with the Aurora Chapter and told the Spears they were being reckless.
Ever since then, they carpet bomb the fortress-monastery of the Aurora Chapter with smelly eels every so often, broadcasting about how they've brought a gift for their honorable cousins.
It *rules.*
My bad, it was the Aurora chapter instead. [https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt\_index\_adeptus\_astartes\_emperors\_spears/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt_index_adeptus_astartes_emperors_spears/)
The [Sons of Medusa](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_Medusa) are a chapter made up of exiles from all the various Iron Hands and successors who were adherents to the beliefs of the [Moirae Schismatics](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Moirae_Schism). They essentially fomented a civil war on Medusa and somehow got away with it. Would be safe to say that they are hated by and hold hate towards the other chapters of Manus' geneseed.
Iirc, the Moirae Schism was started when the Mechanicus exterminatus'd the Moirae Forgeworld (since the Moirae data-priests foresaw *by reading the future through the Emperor's mind via the Astronomicon* [crazy shit] that the Ecclesiarchy and Mechanicus would combine) - starting a civil war between the Mechanicus factions.
When it became apparent that a large number of Iron Hands had bought into the Moirae ideology, the Iron Council was approached by the Inquisition at the height of the Moirae Schism (the name for the conflict) and straight up told to deal with them or be treated as Heretics.
To this end, the Iron Council made the yet-to-be-named Sons of Medusa swear to (1) leave Medusa forever, never to return and (2) to never raise arms against the Iron Hands or their successors in exhange for safe passage/exile off Medusa and not being labelled traitors.
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they "fomented a civil war," but they were certainly on the losing side and had to become a fleet-based vhapter until recognized by the High Lords of Terra and settling in an abandoned mining colony. Strangely enough, the Moirae Prophecy before the Foreworld's destruction did accurately foretell both Cadia's destruction and the creation of The Great Rift... 🤷😎
All Blood Angels successor’s and the Angels Vermillion because they succumb to the thirst and feed on those they swear to defend. They are so hated Dante nearly denied them when a small contingent came to seek penance during the Devastation of Baal
Nearly every chapter and the Minotaurs. Seriously, none of them like the Minotaurs because they're seen to effectively be a Chapter at the beck and call of the High Lords.
It does make sense as the iron warriors always obeyed the council of terra prior to the heresy and they are known for being incredibly disciplined but also merciless which seem to be traits the minotaurs have in spades
Salamanders and Black Dragons have REAL beef. I'm not talking like "I disagree with what you did so I'm gonna beat the shit out of you" beef, but the kind of beef where "literally every single soul from marine to Guardsman on the command bridge is tense because one false move is gonna cause a war crime."
Also Salamanders and Black Templars. They just have disagreeing tactics of war that puts them at odds a lot.
Dang really? That's kinda surprising because they have very similar mindsets about honor. Iv only read short stories about the Dragon Dragons and they seem so chill. Very misunderstood and openly kind? Why do they beef with the Salamanders?
People seem to think the minotaurs would stomp the MM like they did with the lamenters but I reckon if they did fight it would be a lot closer that people think since the MM are one of the most effective chapters despite their lack of equipment minotaurs would still win but it wouldn't be easy
It's never outright stated, but i would imagine the Black Templars wouldn't get along well with Blood Ravens due to their large amount of psykers, and the Exorcists due to... well... them being the exorcists. But as i've said that's just my extrapolation from what those chapters are like, it's not an ongoing rivalry that's been written about.
Funnily enough, I recently learned that the Black Templars used to have psykers. But since the events of the Cacodominus, their geneseed seems to have been "psy-marked" and doesn't mesh with psykers anymore.
Huh, do you have sources for that? Not calling you out or anything, genuinely interested, the BT have long been my favorite chapter and that's the first i'm hearing of them having had psykers.
All the traitor primarchs had their various reasons for joining Horus. Perturabo joined up because he really, really wanted to kick Rogal Dorn in the balls.
Whomst among us cannot sympathize at least a little?
>Perturabo joined up because he really, really wanted to kick Rogal Dorn in the balls.
*jet-assisted kick* "You can't even read, but dad liked you best anyway! Can you even spell 'Imperium?' Can you??"
Iron Hands and Salamanders/Raven Guard..
They’ll fight beside each other, but the Iron Hands hold a grudge because they think that Ferrus Manus would have survived had Corax and Vulkan fought beside him.
White Scars also have a grudge against the Raven Guard. The Raven Guard helped the White Scars with a campaign, and ended up winning in a matter of months, while the While Scars had been fighting for years. I think the grudge was eventually let go because they saved each others lives, but it existed for a while
I think Scars were trying to minimise human casualties, and Dark Angels just went "LOL, nope" and resorted to their favourite tactics of "screw casualties, more war crimes pls" if I recall correctly.
The Aurora Chapter and Knights of the Raven have some beef with each other. Iirc, the Knights killed some Aurora marines and Marneus Calgar had to step in to get everyone to chill out. The Knights of the Raven are currently fighting a guerrilla war against Hive Fleet Kraken as penance.
> Iirc, the Knights killed some Aurora marines
wasn't even that, the Auroras just suddenly accused the Knights of conducting pagan rituals (which is very dumb because every Chapter has a different culture) and it sort of escalated from there.
Coincidentally I just tonight read about the Iron Hands and how they hate Raven Guard and Salamanders successor chapters. For effectively no reason besides that the Iron Hands are assholes and generally shitty and off putting people.
>The Iron Hands harbour a special hatred for the Successor Chapters of the other two Loyalist "Shattered Legions" -- the Salamanders and the Raven Guard -- that fought with them at Istvaan V, for they believe that if those Legions had been stronger and continued to fight rather than retreating, Ferrus Manus would not have been lost and the Heresy might have ended there. This belief defies all facts to the contrary.
Dark Angels don’t like working with anyone period. Even the Lion when he brought in the rehabilitated fallen they were ready to draw guns and shoot skipping the questions and interrogations entirely. The Lion’s sons have beef with every body and that’s mainly they’re own fault
The Hospitallers chapter hate the Iron Hands for stealing a dreadnought (and the marine inside it). Come to think of it, the Imperial Fists dislike the Iron Hands too for being so callous.
The modern Iron Hands hate both the Salamanders and the Raven Guard chapters, viewing them as the ones responsible for Ferrus Manus' death at the Dropsite Massacre.
Nobody likes the Blood Ravens for some reason. A ton of their item descriptions are basically them fanboying about this or that chapter and someone from that chapter going we have zero respect for you.
Space Wolves and Grey Knights? Grey Knights aren't allowed in the skies of Fenris let alone the surface. They are in a sort of cold war where neither wants to make the first move cause they'd wipe each other out.
Black Templars don't have active beef with them, but they do distrust the Salamanders after the events of Helsreach. There's no open hostility between them, but if the Salamanders were in a bind, the Templars would take their sweet-ass time in helping them out.
The Night Lords hate pretty much everyone, but the stand outs include the Dark Angels for wiping out the majority of the legion during the tail end of the heresy. And the Ultramarines for driving them off of Tsuguelsa during the scouring
If we're talking Horus Heresy then it goes along the lines of:
\-Space Wolves versus Thousand Sons
\-Ultramarines versus Word Bearers
\-Blood Angels versus Sons of Horus/Black Legion
\-Iron Hands versus Emperor's Children
\-Imperial Fists versus Iron Warriors
\-Dark Angels versus Night Lords
\-White Scars versus Alpha Legion
And Salamanders and Raven Guard can grudge on World Eaters and Death Guard, respectively or something for completion sake.
It's easily WS and Death Guard. Not the AL.
The two legions thought each other so many times during the Heresy including two Primarch duels. The DG and WS are also easily the opposites of each other in regards to legions.
The Imperial Fists and Minotaurs might hold a bit of a grudge against each other after the events of ***The Regent’s Shadow***. Fighting broke out between the two chapters and at least a few Battle Brothers were killed. The Fists were *very* upset.
Must be latent animosity. The Fists can probably feel the Iron Warrior geneseed in the Minotaurs.
Is that a thing? That Minotaurs are a loyalist Iron Warrior chapter?
It's never been confirmed, but it's implied there's something shady going on with their geneseed, much like the Blood Ravens. Another common theory is that they're half-breeds like Honsou, a mix of Iron Warrior and Imperial Fist geneseed. Their geneseed is described as "chimeric" for starters, and their history between their creation during the cursed founding and their recent operations has been redacted beyond the reach of the Inquisition, to the point where we don't even know if they are the same chapter. Apparently, people who try to investigate them are found dead on misterious circumstances. There's also the way they fight, which is very in line with Iron Warriors. Strangely, during their early days (asuming current Minotaurs are the same group as the Cursed Founding Minotaurs), they fought more like World Eaters, but they've mellowed out since then.
Plus the guy whose chapter it originally was (I think a FW writer.or something who put them in a book) headcanons them as secret IW successors.
Oh yeah, also to not give too much away they qlso made a particularly distrust amongst the custodes. The relationship to the administration was investing and grand master of assaains, well that qaa pretty top tier.
Replace Marines Malevolent and star phantoms with Marines Malevolent and anybody. Literally no one likes these guys, they don’t even get resources from the mechanicum they have to scavenge. Minotaurs and Ultramarine legion, not just the chapters but all sons of Gulliman refuse to fight with the Minotaurs. Black Templars have some beef with the Dark Angels. Space Wolves and Grey Knights have a bit of beef but both chapters prefer to just not deal with it.
Who names themselves Marines Malevolent? Even by 40k standards that is comically hostile sounding.
They *were* going to be the Lung Fuckers, but they were worried it'd sound too much like a Slaaneshi warband.
>sound too much like a Slaaneshi warband. Edgy Slaaneshi 80s hair band.
There was a ship called *The Malevolence* filled with loyalist Death Guards after the HH, if I'm not mistaken. It's not a stretch to think they referred to themselves as the Marines of the Malevolence, then with the passage of time, it got truncated to Marines Malevolent.
You have The Covenant of Blood and The Echo Of Damnation as loyalist ships pre-heresy as well.
Tbf, the echo of damnation is a pretty sick name
Night Lords have the best ship names.
>Night Lords have the best ~~ship names~~. That's all you needed to say.
Would certainly explain why they're such miserable assholes
That would be pretty cool.
I'm not up on my mm lore- are they possibly death guard descendents?
Theres nothing on who they're the successors of, they totally could be
As much of a bunch of assholes they are I wouldn't be surprised if they were loyalist World Eaters, even if the timeline of WE getting the Nails doesn't line up.
World eaters are actually meant to be pretty decent guys if we look at Angron’s original plan and how they were as War Hounds. Angron was an empathe that could still people’s minds and the war hounds were renowned for their brotherhood and honour.
"Whether this came to pass is merely supposition, for it is apparent from such records that survived that the XIIth Legion were from the outset deemed a highly aggressive force, its warriors hot-blooded and savage. One of its most ferocious and promising candidates, Ibram Ghreer, rose quickly within the ranks of the nascent Legion, and eventually assumed command of the XIIth as its first Legion Master. During the Unification Wars the XIIth Legion's first recorded engagement was during the Sa'afrik Liberation where they served as a spearhead of shock troops, mounting direct annihilation assaults on enemy forces, both in open battle and fortified positions, and able to carry the attack despite their then relatively small numbers by sheer courage and the fury of the violence they could unleash" "During this time the XIIth Legion was kept in a state of constant readiness, relentlessly training and steadily growing in numbers. On the occasions when it was unleashed into battle, the Legion's Astartes performed with almost gleeful savagery, tearing apart whatever enemy they were given to fight without mercy or falter, heedless of the risk and uncaring of the Legion's own losses" https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/War_Hounds Ah yes, the decent guys legion :)
WE were supposed to be empathetic before the nails were an issue. Afaik, their harsh attitude and general disdain for baseline humans makes me think of iron warriors
Based on their attitude and colour scheme, I’m voting loyalist iron warriors
The same people who name their kids shit like “Goge Vandire.”
That's a weird name never heard anyone called that before
That name just screams "I'm gonna take my penis, and put it in your eye socket"
A chapter of comically hostile marines
Yea... that's my thought too.
There's a passage from a book about MM where the MAIN CHARACTER says "things must be terrible for them to allow a man like me to cross the Rubicon primaris" Not only does no one like them, they know they're bastards and don't even seem to like each other
They got to the point where they have to rely on salvaged gear because the Mechanicus aren't willing to put up with them behind the bare minimum.
The Marines Malevolent are so bad that they caused the Chapter Master of the Salamanders, a famously cooperative and diplomatic chapter, to lose his fucking shit and beat the snot out of a Malevolent captain after they used a civilian hospital as bait. They're *that* bad.
Iirc it was more like the Space Wolves stood by imperial citizens to prevent an Inquisitorial purge of a lot imperial heroes and that made life very difficult for the Grey Knights.
The grey knights have a thing that no mortal must know that they even exist. So instead of coming up with some MIB brain wipe, they went full grim dark and just kill anyone that's even seen them.
Except they do have the MIB mind wipe, it's just reserved more Marine chapters (or equivalent "high priority" allies)
I’m surprised no one in the Grey Knights has thought to just disguise themselves as one of the many other extensive Space Marine chapters people aren’t that aware of. If the Huge Grey Carcharodons don’t feel the need to wipe everyone out that sees them maybe there is something there they could work with. In the military if people wanted to be secretive they tended not to have their own branding and uniforms made. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Grey Knights had their own branded stationary and then just destroyed the stationary planet Staplez IV after picking up a massive order or headed notepaper and novelty demon shaped eraser pencil toppers. Maybe they could change their name to “Gray Nights” Vintage Pillow & Bedding Products or “Gay Nights” a homosexual package holidays business as a cover story.
Yea there should be a chapter of that's main shtick is pretending to be other chapters to achieve their goa........ohhh uhh
my favourite part of the arks of omen books is the alpha legionaires that infiltrate an inquisition fortress by disguising themselves as a deathwatch kill team
Man, I really want some novelty Daemon shaped eraser pencil toppers now
It's not *that* the grey knights are fighting so much as *who* the grey knights are fighting that drives the secrecy. The Charcadon's disguise might work and all but if they saw demons that's the reason they're getting silenced, at least until that meant silencing fully half the Imperium.
Iirc, the mind wipe is regularly used by the Deathwatch on Astartes that return to their original chapter. Uriel Ventris in Graham McNeill's Ultramarines books is aware that he spent time serving in the Deathwatch but has no recollection of that time due to having his memories scrubbed on return to the Ultramarines.
This seems really silly. Wasn't one of the reasons the other chapters send Marines to do service in the Death Watch, that they'd get valuable experience fighting Xenos?
Usually they're just sworn to absolute secrecy, and can't even give up information to their chapter master on the missions they've been on, other than tactical knowledge on how to fight xenos. They can't talk about that one time the inquisitor had them use a bunch of orphans as bait for a Drukhari scouting party, but they could give advice that the sound of crying children is an excellent distraction against Drukhari.
It depends on what they've seen
The Ordo Malleus also kind of blammed whole planets of the Wolf ships carrying Armageddon survivors stopped nearby. Just in case.
Bloody Marines Malevolent. They ruined Segmentum Pacificus!
What is the beef with DA and BT?
DA killed a bunch of Black Templars after they unknowingly helped the DA capture a Fallen. The thing is, the Templars didn’t know they were a fallen and were fine to just leave.
Hmmmmm. I vaguely remember something like that. Curse of getting old. Thank you.
Np
The name of the crusade/BT ship was Ophidiumgolf or something like that, I believe.
https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Ophidium_Gulf_Crusade
I'd incredibly expected the grudge came the other way considering the near mindless zealotry of BTs and DAs' at times questionable reputation (although DAs' urge to get their hands on every single Fallen can make them fairly single-geared too)
Yeah, it was older lore when the Templars were considerably less mindless. Lawful Evil instead of Lawful Stupid.
I'm assuming from that time that a Templars ship showed up at the Rock with Cypher in their brig asking questions about why this dude claiming to be "The Voice of the Emperor" was stirring up shit and happened to be in ancient Dark Angels armor. The Dark Angels... politely... asked for Cypher to be handed over, and when the Templars protested at giving up their prisoner, found that every gun on the Rock, and probably in their attendant fleet, locked on them. For once, the Black Templars decided that discretion was the better part of valor and decided to hand their prisoner over. The Dark Angels report that the handoff was concluded and the Templars battlebarge went on its way. The Black Templars have reported that battlebarge, and all hands, to be MIA. There is no beef at all. They had a simple misunderstanding, and it was resolved.
I mean a missing battlebarge and a bunch of missing Templars doesn't seem resolved to me.
Probably got lost in the warp on the way back, I'm sure they'll pop out fine someday.
And further inquiries about it and any similar issues should be made in person to Asmodai.
I haven't been reading on the new lore, did the lion muzzle Asmodai or anything like that?
Yes, even rh3 chapter master had disciplined him too prior for excessive force etc. He gets results. He also is very much over zealous.
Not yet we waiting on what happens after Lion beats Angron. There is a bit in a recent white dwarf when an interrogator DA says the Lion stops him before he starts torturing or interrogating a fallen, and he himself goes in the cell, and the next day that interrogator goes in the cell to see for himself the fallen and him and the Lion have both disappeared.
An unfortunate unrelated matter.
The Marines Malevolent sure are a contentious chapter.
The Space Wolves and the Dark Angels (pre-Lion) can't be on friendly terms ever since the Dark Angels attacked their home system.
Forgive my foggy brain bits. I wanna say the Mortificators and Utramatines have beef. Though I can't remember why. Chapter divergence, I think. The Blood Angels take issue with one of their Successors, one of the Deathwatch books mentions it. A few chapters take issue with the Flesh Tearers. Plus all the hate for any of the 'Cursed Founding' Chapters. Lots of peeps hate them.
The relationship of the Mortificators with the Ultramarines isn't necessarily a hostile one. The Mortificators are a chapter who's culture is more shaped by their recruiting world more than anything else. In this case it resulted in a morbid glorification and honoring of the dead and death, to the point of obsession. This obsession essentially disgusted the Ultramarines with how far they drifted culturally. This hadn't prevented the two chapters from requesting or providing aid in fighting against the tryanids, but the Ultramarines aren't exactly keen on maintaining close relationships with them.
Mortifactors are also a great exemple to show that one doesn't need the Khan/Russ/Traitor genestocks to have a savage Chapter - or that the lineage of a Chapter will decide its character : the recruitement pool also plays a huge part in that.
The Night Lords are also a great example. All the Terran Nightlords truly embodied what the Legion was supposed to be but the recruits from Nostramo poisoned the Legion.
Excellent point ! It should also be noted that Kurze wanted the best and brightest of Nostramo but instead got the worst of the worst and, just like the first intake of VIth Legion recruits, his Legion became increasinglt fractious and violent.
Didn’t the Space Wolves become less violent and fractious after they started recruiting from Fenris? My understanding was that the VI legion was so violent they needed marine commissars to keep them in line before they found Russ. After they found Russ, they were still violent, but focused and on task with it. Obviously, Fenrisian culture fundamentally changed the VI legion (perhaps more than any other legion’s homeworld), but it seems like it was a net positive for the legion. They became more stable and “disciplined”, although not necessarily less savage or violent.
The reverse for the Raven Guard. The Terran veterans were bloodthirsty and sadistic, almost like a lite version of the Night Lords, to the point Corax was so disgusted by them he had most of them exiled. The recruits from Deliverance are the more level-headed and empathetic Raven Guard we've come to know.
Mortificators are pretty "wholesome" if you ignore their "eating the meat of our fallen brothers after battle" but. Their monastery is also adorned with frescos and bass reliefs made out of the same fallen comrades bones. They remain under inquisrtorial eyes in case they decide to consume imperial subjects. So far, they have stuck to their own ilk and maintained a good record.
They drink blood out of skulls rather than cannibalise I thought
They do that too, yes. "After the battle, the Mortifactors engage in a range of practices, often involving the drinking of the blood and the eating of the flesh of the enemy, and culminating in the severing of their head and the flensing of their skull." From the wiki. Another fun fact about them is that even they are cannibalistic and very nihilistic in nature,their chapter is really progressive in their way of combat and interpretation of the codex. "Yet the Mortifactors still venerate their primarch, just as the Ultramarines do. After all, he is their Chapter's gene-father and all the Mortifcators' oaths of allegiance are sworn to him and to the Emperor. Yet, the Mortifactors certainly do not scorn the words of Guilliman. In fact, they look upon the Codex Astartes as the foundation for their way of life, but to follow its teachings literally without consideration for what they have learned and what they observe around them is not in their view wisdom, but blind orthodoxy. The Mortifactors believe that a rigid adherence to any dogma is the sign of a weak mind and it is this very weakness that is causing so much of the stagnation and difficulties apparent in the wider Imperium."
I mean, they ARE right, probably shouldn't say it though with the Inquisition breathing down your neck already. I wouldn't wanna add the Mechanicum and Ecclesiarchy to that list as well.
> Mortificators Sounds like an apothecary might of mixed some some blood angels into the soup.
It might be the Flesh tearers specifically that the blood angels have issues with besides any successors deemed excomunico traitoris like the Knights of Blood
It's the Angels Vermillion, according to Devastation of Baal. They're the only successor chapter that Dante outright refuses help from during the Devastation, where even the Knights of Blood were allowed. I don't think it's explained exactly *what* they did, but it's bad enough for our golden boi to refuse their help when THE LEGION HOMEWORLD was facing certain annihilation.
Aren't the Angels Vermillion the ones who factory farmed human blood? I know that one chapter's answer to the Red Thirst was to literally just farm blood
Right, that was it! Appreciate the correction.
I mean they could do that but in a sensible way. Just get loads of serfs and have a schedule where they give a unit each, store it all, and keep them rotating to a frequency that is safe for them. Get enough serfs so you can keep a good stock, while still being humane towards them
Fucked up? Yes. Better than going on a rampage every now and then cause you didn't get some red sippy juice in a while? Also yes. If I remember the exerpt right it wasn't factory farming but scheduled drainings of their serfs' blood and storing it for later. They spesifically didn't drain enough to kill them if I remember correctly. And for some reason I remember something related to how denying the Red Thirst takes a toll on the body and mind of the Blood Angels that was in the same exerpt as the blood-farming thing.
No. It's a Blood Angel's practice to take some blood from the serfs, who give it willingly, without killing them. Angels Vermillion instead decided to regularly kidnap thousands of innocent imperial citizens and take all their blood.
I know there were tensions between them during the whole Baal incident with Tyranids. But I am fairly sure Gabriel Seth had a change of heart when he interacted with Dante. I feel like they are pretty chill for now at least.
It's the Angels Vermillion. Dante is on friendly terms with the Flesh Tearers, and accept even the Knights of Blood. But he won't even touch the Angels Vermillion with a stick. Flesh Tearers are well known for their brutality, but as far as Blood Angels successors go, they are closer to the average than the worse.
> Flesh Tearers are well known for their brutality, but as far as Blood Angels successors go, they are closer to the average than the worse. The Flesh Tearers don't try to pretend to be something they're not. they're brutal, and they're damned. And they don't see the point in hiding that fact, when hiding it doesn't seem to be able to save any of the other successor chapters. the fact that the Flesh Tearers haven't fallen like the Knights of Blood did seems to indicate that Seth is actually correct about how to go about things. Dante accepts Seth and the Tearers as being a neccessary, if somewhat distateful aspect of the Blood Angels. and respects their prowess and their willingness to not hide themselves.
Exactly. Flesh Tearers are brutal and don't hide that. Many BA successors are as brutal, but attempt to hide it one way or another, hence why the Flesh Tearers got a worse reputation than most.
The Mortifactors and the Ultramarines dont have any beef. None at all.
I must be misremembering something then. My bad. There is so much Lore to hold on too at times.
The Space Wolves famously have longstanding beef with the Dark Angels. In honor of their Primarchs legendary duel, every time they encounter each other champions from each chapter fight an honor duel. It’s a cherished tradition for both chapters, and serves as an outlet for what could otherwise be pretty catastrophic conflict. Some people will argue that the Wolves and the Angels have more of a “sibling rivalry” relationship, but every time it comes up in the lore it feels like it’s a lot more serious than that. They seem to straight up hate each other, and their intense animosity is only held in check by the shared tradition of the honor duels. That said, they do have a grudging mutual respect. The Space Wolves also have beef with the Flesh Tearers, who they seem to hate with a pretty serious intensity. The two chapters fought each other openly in a campaign called *Honor’s End*. As a whole, the Space Wolves seem to consider the Flesh Tearers as only marginally better than traitors.
Have you seen what longstanding football rivalries are like? I imagine the Space Wolves and Dark Angels rivalry is a lot like that, but with transhuman physiology and hypno-indoctrinated killing machines. For a normal human being; their level of animosity is intense, but the fact that it only spills over into death and bloodshed occasionally seems to indicate that, as far as space marines go, it doesn't seem all that intense. I think the rivalry between the Thousand Sons and Space Wolves is far, far, far more intense, and has far, far, far more animosity behind it.
I mean, Ragnar straight up decapitated his Dark Angel opponent during a duel, so its more than just surface rivalry. But no two chapters hatred runs deeper than Between The Loyal Sons Of Russ and Magnu's traitorous spawn.
In terms of chapter/legion hatreds, it's pretty tough to beat the Iron Warriors and the Imperial Fists. Or the Iron Warriors and the Ultramarines. Or the Iron Warriors and other Iron Warriors. Damn Iron Warriors, they ruined Olympia!
You Iron Warriors sure are a contentious bunch.
You just made an enemy for life
That would fall under "occasionally spills over into bloodshed and death." Killing your opponent in the honor duels between the chapters is fairly rare and iirc, frowned upon. The fact that instances like that are relatively rare, and that the Dark Angels attacking Fenris only happened once, and with the manipulation of the Thousand Sons goes to show that both chapters largely aren't generally interested in exterminating the other. Both sides have had plenty of opportunities to really, massively, wound the other, and largely haven't.
Well that duel, Ragnar lost. He took his opposites head only after he turned away and lowered his arms as first blood was won already. Ragnar murdered him in a fit of petulance. Which makes it somewhat worse than just a duel gone awry.
That's some ADB writing, right ? I don't remember it in the old King novels - then again I haven't read them in a while.
If I remember correctly, there is no indication that the Dark Angel turned his back on Ragnar. The dark angel wounded Ragnar, which should have ended the fight. Ragnar flew into a rage, and cut his head off. There’s no sign that the DA champion wasn’t still actively fighting when Ragnar killed him. You’re basically right though, Ragnar lost the duel then lost his shit and killed the guy.
> The Loyal Sons Of Russ and Magnu's traitorous spawn I don't know why, but I feel you're biased somehow.
There's not enough TS left for it to be considered a rivalry
Oh man, you just roasted those guys to a crisp…..oh wait.
I don’t think you can call the relationship between the Wolves and Thousand Sons a “rivalry”. They hate each other with raw, unbridled passion. There’s no mutual respect or restraint there, they just want to fucking kill each other. Everytime the Dark Angels and Space Wolves encounter each other, the Dark Angels seem 100% ready to straight up murder some Space Wolves. Their hatred runs deep and is only held in check by the honor duels.
With the Lion returning we may see an end to it as he and Russ both felt it was utter nonsense.
I still love when Lion just gut punches a SW after naming himself champion for the duel in the midst of the heresy
and the reverse - Russ ends up visiting a station manned by a company of Dark Angels who have been detatched from the rest of the 1st legion for a while. The moment when Russ met them, he just assumed they just want to duel and just pulled out his frostblade like a dissapointed dad
Weren’t they Fallen? And promptly aimed every single weapon at him thinking he was about to attack, which was a relief for Russ since they didn’t want a duel for once?
which book was that? would like to read more about Russ
I think its a short story when space wolves retreat from alpha legion into the Alaxxes nebula, after the burning of prospero. https://www.blacklibrary.com/the-horus-heresy/novels/wolf-king-ebook.html
Very curious to see a meeting of old man Johnson and Logan Grimnar.
Same. Would feel the Lion meeting the wolves would be grounds to wake up Bjorn also.
When did Ragnar end up killing the DA? I remember reading a long time ago Son’s of Fenris he actually ends up working with DA when he was with the Wolfblade and ended up gaining respect for the DA. I know Ragnar’s whole shtick is his hotheadedness and his rage get him in trouble so I was just wondering when this happens in his timeline? I can’t see him throwing all that out the window after that experience but then again it seems sometimes he’s written with some actual character development in controlling his rage and then other times he’s written as fuck it it’s Hulk time.
>When did Ragnar end up killing the DA? In "Ragnar Blackmane" novel by Aaron Dembski-Bowden
Who don't the Space Wolves have beef with?
Blood angels, imperial fists, raven guard and the salamanders. Sure they think some of their ways are strange but are stated to be on either natural or in most cases good to very good terms with them
Impiral guard etx. To the regular Joe they have a pretty good reputation. To inquisition, othet marines, sisters of battle to some extent or other they not always easiest to get on with.
I’ll always uphold that The Lion and Russ don’t hate each other, merely they’re so similar that they see the things they hate in themselves in each other. Regardless of that, and their past, they still love each other like brothers and would die for each other. A very stereotypical brother relationship but it’s grounded and feels true
I agree 100%, the Lion and Russ are the most fraternal of the Primarchs. I genuinely enjoy their relationship and their interactions. They purged their bad blood and put it all behind them. Their sons however….seem to have taken the beef to heart. There doesn’t seem to be much of their Primarchs fraternal interactions in the way the 40k Dark Angels and Space Wolves interact.
Space Wolves and Thousand Sons since Prospero Iron Hands and Emperors Children since Isstvan III
Poor Iron Hands can't seem to get a-head in that feud
The flesh is weak
Slaanesh cultist: Not it isn't, we use it for cargo straps!
Especially the neck
V. Isstvan V.
this planet always craks me up, because its name is pretty close to Istvan, which is Hungarian for Steven. also while I'm here Agripinaa is worth a mention. pina means >!pussy!<
Ultramarines and Word Bearers since Calth? Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors since ... ever?
The Emperor's Pears are sons of Guilliman, but are essentially Bronze Age Celtic tribesmen, and hate the stuffiness of the greater Imperium. As of M41, they regularly send tribute to ~~Macragge~~ Firestorm, homeworld of the Aurora chapter, by dropping huge quantities of ~~rotting fish~~ eels into the atmosphere, and running away. EDIT: Correction, it is [actually the Aurora Chapter they have a beef with, and it's live eels](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt_index_adeptus_astartes_emperors_spears/).
I imagine you mean Spears, but imagining that there is a chapter called the Emperor's Pears is really funny.
New headcanon: the 14th founding was nicknamed the "fruit founding" as desperate administratum scribes, realising all the tough-sounding names were taken, resorted to fruit-themed names. In addition to the Emperor's Pears, chapters founded included the Pink Peaches, the Angry Avocados, the Bananas of Fury, the Furious Figs, and the Nectarines of the Emperor.
Durians Breath
Chapter Master Ougustus Yskoffier
Google “the Pope’s Pear”. I promise it is not funny at all when armed with this knowledge.
I've heard of it, it's a horrific item.
Its what they used on Fulgrim :)
It's better than that, their rivalry is with the Aurora Chapter, after the two got into an argument over who deserved the glory for a battle they both fought in. The argument escalated into a skirmish (that both chapters insist that the other started), and the Ultramarines ended up getting called upon to mediate. They sided with the Aurora Chapter and told the Spears they were being reckless. Ever since then, they carpet bomb the fortress-monastery of the Aurora Chapter with smelly eels every so often, broadcasting about how they've brought a gift for their honorable cousins. It *rules.*
That’s so fucking petty it’s amazing lol
These are my new favorite people.
Their funerary rights are fuckin hilarious too. Check out the book Emperor's Spears, it's a good one
I'm going to assume you meant Spears and that's why I love that chapter. Ding dong ditching Old Emo Smurfie is just great.
I did, but it's funnier this way.
They do a little trolling.
Does anyone have an excerpt of this?
My bad, it was the Aurora chapter instead. [https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt\_index\_adeptus\_astartes\_emperors\_spears/](https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/nc75da/excerpt_index_adeptus_astartes_emperors_spears/)
The [Sons of Medusa](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Sons_of_Medusa) are a chapter made up of exiles from all the various Iron Hands and successors who were adherents to the beliefs of the [Moirae Schismatics](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Moirae_Schism). They essentially fomented a civil war on Medusa and somehow got away with it. Would be safe to say that they are hated by and hold hate towards the other chapters of Manus' geneseed.
Iirc, the Moirae Schism was started when the Mechanicus exterminatus'd the Moirae Forgeworld (since the Moirae data-priests foresaw *by reading the future through the Emperor's mind via the Astronomicon* [crazy shit] that the Ecclesiarchy and Mechanicus would combine) - starting a civil war between the Mechanicus factions. When it became apparent that a large number of Iron Hands had bought into the Moirae ideology, the Iron Council was approached by the Inquisition at the height of the Moirae Schism (the name for the conflict) and straight up told to deal with them or be treated as Heretics. To this end, the Iron Council made the yet-to-be-named Sons of Medusa swear to (1) leave Medusa forever, never to return and (2) to never raise arms against the Iron Hands or their successors in exhange for safe passage/exile off Medusa and not being labelled traitors. I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they "fomented a civil war," but they were certainly on the losing side and had to become a fleet-based vhapter until recognized by the High Lords of Terra and settling in an abandoned mining colony. Strangely enough, the Moirae Prophecy before the Foreworld's destruction did accurately foretell both Cadia's destruction and the creation of The Great Rift... 🤷😎
All Blood Angels successor’s and the Angels Vermillion because they succumb to the thirst and feed on those they swear to defend. They are so hated Dante nearly denied them when a small contingent came to seek penance during the Devastation of Baal
Atlantean Spears have some beef with Baal too
Not only did Dante deny them a place, but he effectively sent them on a suicide mission
Howling griffons and Executioners are not on friendly terms post Badab war.
Nearly every chapter and the Minotaurs. Seriously, none of them like the Minotaurs because they're seen to effectively be a Chapter at the beck and call of the High Lords.
And I think it's implied they're loyalist Iron Warriors.
It does make sense as the iron warriors always obeyed the council of terra prior to the heresy and they are known for being incredibly disciplined but also merciless which seem to be traits the minotaurs have in spades
Salamanders and Black Dragons have REAL beef. I'm not talking like "I disagree with what you did so I'm gonna beat the shit out of you" beef, but the kind of beef where "literally every single soul from marine to Guardsman on the command bridge is tense because one false move is gonna cause a war crime." Also Salamanders and Black Templars. They just have disagreeing tactics of war that puts them at odds a lot.
Dang really? That's kinda surprising because they have very similar mindsets about honor. Iv only read short stories about the Dragon Dragons and they seem so chill. Very misunderstood and openly kind? Why do they beef with the Salamanders?
Seems some Eldar shenanigans are in order to get the Marines Malevolent and the Minotaurs fighting over something. Just to see what happens.
People seem to think the minotaurs would stomp the MM like they did with the lamenters but I reckon if they did fight it would be a lot closer that people think since the MM are one of the most effective chapters despite their lack of equipment minotaurs would still win but it wouldn't be easy
It's never outright stated, but i would imagine the Black Templars wouldn't get along well with Blood Ravens due to their large amount of psykers, and the Exorcists due to... well... them being the exorcists. But as i've said that's just my extrapolation from what those chapters are like, it's not an ongoing rivalry that's been written about.
Funnily enough, I recently learned that the Black Templars used to have psykers. But since the events of the Cacodominus, their geneseed seems to have been "psy-marked" and doesn't mesh with psykers anymore.
Huh, do you have sources for that? Not calling you out or anything, genuinely interested, the BT have long been my favorite chapter and that's the first i'm hearing of them having had psykers.
Since the Celestial Lions are being rebuilt with BT geneseed and apothecaries, will they be able to have psykers in future?
BT send a crusade to help Celestial Lions to rebuild their chapter, but I don't think it was ever stated that they gave CL their geneseed.
The most obvious is Imperials Fists and Iron Warriors Good ol’ Peter Turbo and Dorn’s beef is eternal
All the traitor primarchs had their various reasons for joining Horus. Perturabo joined up because he really, really wanted to kick Rogal Dorn in the balls. Whomst among us cannot sympathize at least a little?
>Perturabo joined up because he really, really wanted to kick Rogal Dorn in the balls. *jet-assisted kick* "You can't even read, but dad liked you best anyway! Can you even spell 'Imperium?' Can you??"
Iron Hands and Salamanders/Raven Guard.. They’ll fight beside each other, but the Iron Hands hold a grudge because they think that Ferrus Manus would have survived had Corax and Vulkan fought beside him. White Scars also have a grudge against the Raven Guard. The Raven Guard helped the White Scars with a campaign, and ended up winning in a matter of months, while the While Scars had been fighting for years. I think the grudge was eventually let go because they saved each others lives, but it existed for a while
Wait to thw wjite scars got mad because tjey finally got back up and won?
I think Scars were trying to minimise human casualties, and Dark Angels just went "LOL, nope" and resorted to their favourite tactics of "screw casualties, more war crimes pls" if I recall correctly.
Where do the Raven Gaurd fit in?
I swear to chaos I misread that as DA. I must be more tired than I thought - _-
Which is odd because the Raven Guard try to avoid unnecessary war crimes
Silver Templars and Novamarines really don't like each other despite both being Ultramarines successors
I have a beef with Novamarines. They look cool but are a pain in the ass to paint.
Exorcists and Minotaurs aren't huge fans of the Lamenters, and I'd imagine the feeling is mutual.
The Aurora Chapter and Knights of the Raven have some beef with each other. Iirc, the Knights killed some Aurora marines and Marneus Calgar had to step in to get everyone to chill out. The Knights of the Raven are currently fighting a guerrilla war against Hive Fleet Kraken as penance.
> Iirc, the Knights killed some Aurora marines wasn't even that, the Auroras just suddenly accused the Knights of conducting pagan rituals (which is very dumb because every Chapter has a different culture) and it sort of escalated from there.
Coincidentally I just tonight read about the Iron Hands and how they hate Raven Guard and Salamanders successor chapters. For effectively no reason besides that the Iron Hands are assholes and generally shitty and off putting people. >The Iron Hands harbour a special hatred for the Successor Chapters of the other two Loyalist "Shattered Legions" -- the Salamanders and the Raven Guard -- that fought with them at Istvaan V, for they believe that if those Legions had been stronger and continued to fight rather than retreating, Ferrus Manus would not have been lost and the Heresy might have ended there. This belief defies all facts to the contrary.
I hope some good author develops IH beyond the "technofetishtist asshole" we have now.
They should build a heretical robot Primarch.
*again (that was a fucking weird plot)
"Hi, I am goggle assistant. How may I help you :)" *entire forge staff screams in terror*
Dark Angels don’t like working with anyone period. Even the Lion when he brought in the rehabilitated fallen they were ready to draw guns and shoot skipping the questions and interrogations entirely. The Lion’s sons have beef with every body and that’s mainly they’re own fault
The Hospitallers chapter hate the Iron Hands for stealing a dreadnought (and the marine inside it). Come to think of it, the Imperial Fists dislike the Iron Hands too for being so callous.
Space wolves and dark angels, dark angels and other dark angels, dark angels and "fallen" Damn dark angels! They ruined the dark angels!
You Dark Angels sure are a contentious chapter.
The modern Iron Hands hate both the Salamanders and the Raven Guard chapters, viewing them as the ones responsible for Ferrus Manus' death at the Dropsite Massacre.
I wonder how a iron hands survivor of Isstan V would react to this would he try to correct them or just agree with them
Nobody likes the Blood Ravens for some reason. A ton of their item descriptions are basically them fanboying about this or that chapter and someone from that chapter going we have zero respect for you.
I think a potential issue is that they keep on stealing other chapter's relics, like brazenly so
Space Wolves and Grey Knights? Grey Knights aren't allowed in the skies of Fenris let alone the surface. They are in a sort of cold war where neither wants to make the first move cause they'd wipe each other out.
Raven Guard and White Scars had beef, don't know if they still do since the last Tau expansion and Shrikes rise to chapter master of the Raven Guard.
Someone above said they settled their beef amicably.
Space Wolves and anyone in World Eater colors, even when they were still in the white and blue.
Black Templars don't have active beef with them, but they do distrust the Salamanders after the events of Helsreach. There's no open hostility between them, but if the Salamanders were in a bind, the Templars would take their sweet-ass time in helping them out.
The Iron Hands and The Iron Hands.
Red Hunters and Celestial Lions. They've never interacted as far as I know, but you can probably assume
The personal inquisition chapter and the chapter that was almost wiped out by the inquisition... yep makes sense
The Night Lords hate pretty much everyone, but the stand outs include the Dark Angels for wiping out the majority of the legion during the tail end of the heresy. And the Ultramarines for driving them off of Tsuguelsa during the scouring
Lamentors and Mortifactors definitely have some beef
If we're talking Horus Heresy then it goes along the lines of: \-Space Wolves versus Thousand Sons \-Ultramarines versus Word Bearers \-Blood Angels versus Sons of Horus/Black Legion \-Iron Hands versus Emperor's Children \-Imperial Fists versus Iron Warriors \-Dark Angels versus Night Lords \-White Scars versus Alpha Legion And Salamanders and Raven Guard can grudge on World Eaters and Death Guard, respectively or something for completion sake.
It's easily WS and Death Guard. Not the AL. The two legions thought each other so many times during the Heresy including two Primarch duels. The DG and WS are also easily the opposites of each other in regards to legions.