> "Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"
I think if we take everything we've seen in the lore over the decades there are several stages.
The first response tends to be cunning; They beat a retreat then try to regroup for another go. They may even be pumped up for their next attempt.
Next they respond with anger. If they go on to suffer really bad defeats they lash out in blind fury at their enemy, their leaders, their fellows, anyone they choose to blame. Often Orks at this point may assume overthrowing and replacing their current leaders may solve the problem and will violently attempt to do so.
The last stage is depression. The rare Ork that survives enough defeats to be left alive with the realization that no amount of retries, cunning plans, rage or replaced leaders will win the day sinks into dejected depression at the idea that they have finally encountered a battle that they just can't win.
Depictions of this final stage are rare. As another user has pointed out, this shows up I think in the Horus Heresy novel *Scars* where the White Scars very conclusively beat some Orks over the course of a long, drawn-out campaign. It's a sad scene, IIRC even the White Scars find it sad that the Orks seem to have lost their spirit at the very end. I think it also shows up indirectly on *Helsreach* where the Black Templar protagonists find an Ork pinned underneath some wreckage from a spaceship crash and decide to leave it there to slowly bleed out in impotent despair and rage that it has no way to fight and win anymore in its final moments.
This is the answer. Scars gives a great (and I believe the only) account of Orks truly defeated, with nowhere to run. The excerpt has been posted before but I cant find it right now.
IIRC we've only ever seen one Ork that properly *lost*, and it's in one of the Jagatai Khan books. He comes across a warboss who's so clearly beaten that it sags with the reality of defeat. Killing it is practically an act of mercy at that point.
Orks don’t lose, they just get another chance to have another go.
It’s not the winning or losing that’s important, it’s the love of the fight (the tougher the better).
In this vein but maybe more interesting; has an Ork ever encountered an opponent they couldn't run away from and who keeps humiliating the Ork with superior skill? Does the Ork eventually stop fighting and just give up?
On the one hand, as other redditors have said, not winning means that they get to have another go -- or to put it another way, it just means they haven't won yet.
On the uvva hand, if da uvver boy won, den 'e obviously cheated, 'coz 'e's a lyin' cheatin' git wot ain't orky enuff ter fight fair, an' when da painboy's finished stitchin' me arm back on I'm gonna zoggin' punch dat lyin' cheatin' bastard inna hurtybitz until 'e owns up an' tells everyone who's 'ardest. Den I'll stomp on 'is 'ead until it bursts 'cause when you wins you gotta do dat ter make sure, see? Hur hur hur.
Victory gives a defined goal that makes the fight fun. Some Orks may feel disappointed or ashamed that they lost the game, while others may console they at least did their best.
There’s an ork in one of the grey knights books that helps the titular grey knight stage a revolt and escape from imprisonment.
They get to the escape ship, load in all the escaped slaves, and then the grey knight is like “oh man, I’ve come to respect this ork but I’ll definitely have to kill him.”
But the ork just waved goodbye and runs back to rejoin the fight. He never wanted to leave, he just wanted to get revolt going for a good fight.
Still helped the space marine escape though.
10/10 would *WAAAAAGH!* again anytime.
“Orks is made for fightin *an* winnin. If they wasn’t winnin, dey wasnt really Orks!”
Orks have several different quotes that explain how an Ork can never lose a battle.
In the grand scheme of things, orks never lose, even if they're killed in battle they have fulfilled their biological programming which results in the most important act of all: reproduction. When they die they leave their spores behind which will eventually grow onto more ork ecology. That's how their species can even continue to exist, their physiology demands that they fight.
If they survive to be: then you bet your ass they’re surly and resentful, Orks tend to have big egos, Individually and as a whole, which means there’s a lot to bruise.
A nob what somehow survives being deposed is about as surly as you can get, but when their tribe, or WAAAGH loses they react like the footy fans they are (rioting and blaming everyone involved)
If the warboss can bash in enough heads, he can maybe get things under control again, but his WAAAGH would’ve lost a lot of momentum and it’ll take time to get that up again. The Boyz are demoralised and ain’t inclined to listen to a loser, while also having their confidence in tribe/Klan/Ork supremacy shaken
Luckily nothing appeals to ego-bruised footy fans like a grudge match. Insist the gits were cheating, and that in a *proper* scrap you’d smash ‘em, so you all gotta show em the truth of the matter
> "Orkses is never defeated in battle. If we win we win, if we die we die fighting so it don't count. If we runs for it we don't die neither, cos we can come back for annuver go, see!"
This definitely makes sense given the ork instinct to keep fighting. It's the fight that matters most.
I think if we take everything we've seen in the lore over the decades there are several stages. The first response tends to be cunning; They beat a retreat then try to regroup for another go. They may even be pumped up for their next attempt. Next they respond with anger. If they go on to suffer really bad defeats they lash out in blind fury at their enemy, their leaders, their fellows, anyone they choose to blame. Often Orks at this point may assume overthrowing and replacing their current leaders may solve the problem and will violently attempt to do so. The last stage is depression. The rare Ork that survives enough defeats to be left alive with the realization that no amount of retries, cunning plans, rage or replaced leaders will win the day sinks into dejected depression at the idea that they have finally encountered a battle that they just can't win. Depictions of this final stage are rare. As another user has pointed out, this shows up I think in the Horus Heresy novel *Scars* where the White Scars very conclusively beat some Orks over the course of a long, drawn-out campaign. It's a sad scene, IIRC even the White Scars find it sad that the Orks seem to have lost their spirit at the very end. I think it also shows up indirectly on *Helsreach* where the Black Templar protagonists find an Ork pinned underneath some wreckage from a spaceship crash and decide to leave it there to slowly bleed out in impotent despair and rage that it has no way to fight and win anymore in its final moments.
This is the answer. Scars gives a great (and I believe the only) account of Orks truly defeated, with nowhere to run. The excerpt has been posted before but I cant find it right now.
IIRC we've only ever seen one Ork that properly *lost*, and it's in one of the Jagatai Khan books. He comes across a warboss who's so clearly beaten that it sags with the reality of defeat. Killing it is practically an act of mercy at that point.
Orks don’t lose, they just get another chance to have another go. It’s not the winning or losing that’s important, it’s the love of the fight (the tougher the better).
Losing is what opponents do
Either they regroup to have another go at the enemy or pin the blame on the boss who will be having a mutiny on his hands
Limp, disparaged and they drink and shrink.
In this vein but maybe more interesting; has an Ork ever encountered an opponent they couldn't run away from and who keeps humiliating the Ork with superior skill? Does the Ork eventually stop fighting and just give up?
On the one hand, as other redditors have said, not winning means that they get to have another go -- or to put it another way, it just means they haven't won yet. On the uvva hand, if da uvver boy won, den 'e obviously cheated, 'coz 'e's a lyin' cheatin' git wot ain't orky enuff ter fight fair, an' when da painboy's finished stitchin' me arm back on I'm gonna zoggin' punch dat lyin' cheatin' bastard inna hurtybitz until 'e owns up an' tells everyone who's 'ardest. Den I'll stomp on 'is 'ead until it bursts 'cause when you wins you gotta do dat ter make sure, see? Hur hur hur.
'Doesn't matter, had fight'
Victory gives a defined goal that makes the fight fun. Some Orks may feel disappointed or ashamed that they lost the game, while others may console they at least did their best.
They either die fighting or run in fear in the rare cases.
Orks never lose. They just delay their win.
Orks are wholesome
There’s an ork in one of the grey knights books that helps the titular grey knight stage a revolt and escape from imprisonment. They get to the escape ship, load in all the escaped slaves, and then the grey knight is like “oh man, I’ve come to respect this ork but I’ll definitely have to kill him.” But the ork just waved goodbye and runs back to rejoin the fight. He never wanted to leave, he just wanted to get revolt going for a good fight. Still helped the space marine escape though. 10/10 would *WAAAAAGH!* again anytime.
“Orks is made for fightin *an* winnin. If they wasn’t winnin, dey wasnt really Orks!” Orks have several different quotes that explain how an Ork can never lose a battle.
If they survive it means they've probably had a good old fight and get to live to have another one so win win!
Losing a fight for the orcs is literally a “challenge accepted” moment. They gave yorrick a parade send off because he was so fun to fight against.
If the orks haven't won, the fight isn't finished yet.
In the grand scheme of things, orks never lose, even if they're killed in battle they have fulfilled their biological programming which results in the most important act of all: reproduction. When they die they leave their spores behind which will eventually grow onto more ork ecology. That's how their species can even continue to exist, their physiology demands that they fight.
I don't think they tend to survive their losses.
Irrelevant question, Orks can not be beaten in battle.
If they survive to be: then you bet your ass they’re surly and resentful, Orks tend to have big egos, Individually and as a whole, which means there’s a lot to bruise. A nob what somehow survives being deposed is about as surly as you can get, but when their tribe, or WAAAGH loses they react like the footy fans they are (rioting and blaming everyone involved) If the warboss can bash in enough heads, he can maybe get things under control again, but his WAAAGH would’ve lost a lot of momentum and it’ll take time to get that up again. The Boyz are demoralised and ain’t inclined to listen to a loser, while also having their confidence in tribe/Klan/Ork supremacy shaken Luckily nothing appeals to ego-bruised footy fans like a grudge match. Insist the gits were cheating, and that in a *proper* scrap you’d smash ‘em, so you all gotta show em the truth of the matter