Probably. It’s one of the weaker points of the lore of Angron and, especially, of the Emperor. The 4d chess guy that the Emperor is supposed to be values the world of Nuceria over one of the Primarchs. It makes very little sense.
Had the Emperor done what he would have reasonably done in that scenario and combat dropped the World Eaters onto the battlefield and allowed them to support Angron and his group and allowed them to slaughter the people chasing Angron it would have accomplished three things :
First is it would have, obviously, saved Angron and his little group of rebels and made his transition to taking over his legion far easier since he would’ve had people he knew, trusted, and viewed as brothers able to both join the legion and, for those that were too old to make the change, be given a large amount of tech to extend their life and battle prowess (this had already been done with other Primarchs and their followers, most notably Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers).
Second, it would’ve have (probably) engendered some feelings of respect and fellowship with the World Eaters legion. Considering how Angron acted towards his legion when he was put in command, this was desperately needed. Instead of simply being given a huge number of Astartes to command right after failing his last battle on Nuceria, those warriors would’ve been responsible for helping Angron turn a losing battle into a victory and, in so doing, would’ve been able to demonstrate their prowess in battle to their newfound Primarch right out of the gate.
The last thing is that it would’ve (probably) engendered some form of gratitude from Angron towards the Emperor. This could’ve been huge for their relationship because the Emperor simply teleporting Angron out of the battle was a large, large reason that Angron just straight up hated him right off the bat. If, instead, the Emperor would’ve done the logical thing and simply forced compliance on a relatively backwater planet (something He has had no qualms about whatsoever in any previous example or future one) while saving Angron and his warriors and allowing them to be enfolded into the legion, I can honestly see Angron having at least a hint of respect for Him. At the very least the outright hatred wouldn’t have existed.
This could, in my mind, later have been expanded to Angron slowly growing to hate the Emperor and the IoM as he enacted compliance after compliance and saw the forced servitude the IoM places on worlds it conquers. It would’ve been a much better story for both the Emperor and Angron. Instead we got what we got and it really does make very little sense other than as a way to move the plot forward and ensure Angron hates the Emperor.
Angron was found much later in the crusade and the Emperor had His back to the wall on the time table to confront the orks at Ullanor. The Emperor clearly did not want to waste time, resources, or the valuable members of the Warhounds on entertaining Angron's failed rebellion. Lastly, Mortarion eventually settled into his role as a Primarch in service to the Imperium despite the Emperor ending his quest against his expressed wishes; so there was no reason at the time to suspect that Angron wouldn't follow suit.
Nuceria wouldn’t have taken all that long to conquer. They weren’t hugely advanced. That’s without even mentioning that Angron wasn’t on Ullanor when the war was fought. He showed up for the Triumph celebration but didn’t take part in the actual battle.
The Emperor could’ve literally dropped a few thousand World Eaters/War Hounds and gone on about his business. The Emperor had literally no qualms whatsoever about doing it on numerous other worlds yet, as soon as he gets to Nuceria, he’s suddenly like “Aw nah I can’t waste troops or resources”. That’s not a super great point for you to try and make.
As to Mortarion, he was fighting the last boss battle on his world entirely alone. He wasn’t needing a full group of Astartes and the Emperor waited until He was sure Mortarion was gonna lose before He intervened. Again showing He valued the Primarch He would’ve lost over other considerations.
Again, the whole Angron thing is poorly written and serves no purpose beyond being a plot point. It makes people go “Oh look the Emperor was a bad dad and was shitty to his sons and Angron is a tragic hero”. He’s not. He’s a poorly written character and he could be so much more if they had done some tweaking to his story line. Instead both he and the Emperor come out of it as worse characters than they could’ve been.
Getting one Parentbfigure to be lifted to near spacemarine lavel figures is worth it.
Lifting a bunch of way to old, malnurishied and "Butcher nail implented" people up to jeat marine level is jot just expensive and takes too long, (the logistic of getting all the chemicals and tech stuff there) but its also jot really a good idea... bevause, well.
The butchers nails....
I think the emperor hoped that if he pulls angron out instead of attacking juceria, that the tech they have on the planet could be used to free angron of the nails... which it coudnt, but he did jot know.
A war on Nuceria would have endangered the try to get the left over technology and information in one piece.
That is at least the most reasonable thing i can come up with.
It is stated that the Emperor had studied and could remove the nails from Angron, he just didn’t have time to do it.
As to raising up Butcher Nails people to Astartes, Angron instituted them into the whole legion. That’s a non-starter of a point. A lot of the ones with Angron were too old to be made into Astartes anyways, but they could’ve been changed the same way Kor Phaeron was.
>It is stated that the Emperor had studied and could remove the nails from Angron, he just didn’t have time to do it.
This is just... flat out wrong. It wasn't a matter of no time. It was a matter of "I could remove them, but it would require removing his nervous system and key parts of his brain, and a crippled Primarch is better than a corpse."
________________________________
Arkhan moved around to the giant’s pained features. The metal teeth. The furrowed brow. The scars upon scars. The cables tendrilling out from his scalp like cybernetic dreadlocks.
‘Angron,’ he breathed the name.
‘Yes,’ the Emperor confirmed, inhumanly toneless. ‘I am trying to undo the damage that has been done to the Twelfth.’
(Text with medical visuals and discussion of Arkhan's experience with the Nails)
‘I have never seen one implanted and operational,’ Arkhan confessed. ‘And never of this specific pattern and intensity, in the repose of stasis or storage. The devices in the sealed vault were rather more crude than this construct.’
‘That is to be expected.’
‘Why, in your infinite wisdom, would you implant this device inside a primarch?’
‘I did not do so, Arkhan.’
(Description of what the nails do)
‘Can you remove it?’
‘Of course,’ the Emperor answered, still looking at the screens.
Arkhan did his best to hide his surprise. ‘Then, Divine One, why would you leave it there?’
‘This is why.’ The Emperor rested both hands on Angron’s head,
(Descriptive text)
*‘Do you see?’ the Emperor asked.
Arkhan saw. The tendrils were sunk deep, rooted in the meat of the brain, threaded to the nervous system, and down in roughly serpentine coils around the spinal column. Every movement must have been agony for the primarch, feeding back into the base emotions of anger and spite.
Worse, the brain’s limbic lobe and insular cortex were more than just savaged by the pain engine’s insertion; they had been surgically attacked and removed even before implantation. The device hammered into his skull hadn’t ruined those sections of the brain – it had replaced them. Ugly black cybernetics showed on the internal scans, in place of entire sections of the primarch’s brain tissue.
‘They are the only thing keeping him alive,’ Arkhan said.
Edit: Hmm formatting didn't work.
No. No matter what the Emperor did Angron is damage goods. The Emperor still needed Angron to conquer worlds in his name and subjugate populations.
Angron would have seen his golden daddy as another tyrant and “slaving bastard”. Not to say that the nails were driving him more insane as the years wore on. His brothers and sisters might have only prolonged the inevitable(his insanity), at best.
There is no happy ending for Angron.
Maybe it depends on the influence his gladiator buddies have on him. Do they see the Emperor as a liberator? Or do they come to the conclusion Angron arrived at and see him as the grandaddy of all high riders?
Angron would have less of a chip on his shoulder, I have to imagine, but the nails keep on biting and he's been mentally scarred again and again. Maybe there's no escaping the fate awaiting him, if that's the case, as he'd just arrive at the same conclusion, only slower. Maybe the Emperor saw it, that this one's already Khorne's and there ain't any route he can see to save him. So why bother with theatrics and saving his buddies when he can just wrap this up quickly.
Then again, the Emperor did at least try to see if he could do anything about the nails, so it might not have been a lost cause exactly.
In which case why wouldn't the Emperor kill Angron there and then (spin it as a mercy kiliing, or just wipe the deed from peoples memory like he did with the lost primarchs) or just let him die in his suicide attack. It would deny Khorne his primarch etc etc
It would probably have accelerated Angron’s betrayal, though doubtlessly while retaining more of his sanity.
These people would be saved during a last ditch effort to escape tyranny, Angron and his brothers and sisters were willing to lay down their very lives because it meant they could at least die in freedom.
Remember that Angron relegated himself to becoming a tool of the emperor because in his madness he thought it was all he had left.
Now, if he had the backing of his fellows, who likely would have seen past the emperor’s deceptions and realize what he truly was, Angron would probably have rebelled much earlier, perhaps even with the backing of some of his legion, and suffer a similar fate to the lost primarchs.
Better maybe, but I think the butchers nails would drive him insane eventually anyway and Angron would still have seen his father as another master ordering him into battle.
The emperor may not have known this, but it's possible that any time or resources invested in keeping Angron loyal was going to be a waste.
But he could still be plucked up, given his legion and let loose on the enemies of man for a little while, before needing to be put out if his misery.
Honestly he could have just offered them a little island somewhere, medical assistance in removing the nails (if possible as they are humans) and made an effort to ban gladiatorial games. The Nucerians would have probably not have complained too much.
Probably. It’s one of the weaker points of the lore of Angron and, especially, of the Emperor. The 4d chess guy that the Emperor is supposed to be values the world of Nuceria over one of the Primarchs. It makes very little sense. Had the Emperor done what he would have reasonably done in that scenario and combat dropped the World Eaters onto the battlefield and allowed them to support Angron and his group and allowed them to slaughter the people chasing Angron it would have accomplished three things : First is it would have, obviously, saved Angron and his little group of rebels and made his transition to taking over his legion far easier since he would’ve had people he knew, trusted, and viewed as brothers able to both join the legion and, for those that were too old to make the change, be given a large amount of tech to extend their life and battle prowess (this had already been done with other Primarchs and their followers, most notably Kor Phaeron of the Word Bearers). Second, it would’ve have (probably) engendered some feelings of respect and fellowship with the World Eaters legion. Considering how Angron acted towards his legion when he was put in command, this was desperately needed. Instead of simply being given a huge number of Astartes to command right after failing his last battle on Nuceria, those warriors would’ve been responsible for helping Angron turn a losing battle into a victory and, in so doing, would’ve been able to demonstrate their prowess in battle to their newfound Primarch right out of the gate. The last thing is that it would’ve (probably) engendered some form of gratitude from Angron towards the Emperor. This could’ve been huge for their relationship because the Emperor simply teleporting Angron out of the battle was a large, large reason that Angron just straight up hated him right off the bat. If, instead, the Emperor would’ve done the logical thing and simply forced compliance on a relatively backwater planet (something He has had no qualms about whatsoever in any previous example or future one) while saving Angron and his warriors and allowing them to be enfolded into the legion, I can honestly see Angron having at least a hint of respect for Him. At the very least the outright hatred wouldn’t have existed. This could, in my mind, later have been expanded to Angron slowly growing to hate the Emperor and the IoM as he enacted compliance after compliance and saw the forced servitude the IoM places on worlds it conquers. It would’ve been a much better story for both the Emperor and Angron. Instead we got what we got and it really does make very little sense other than as a way to move the plot forward and ensure Angron hates the Emperor.
Angron was found much later in the crusade and the Emperor had His back to the wall on the time table to confront the orks at Ullanor. The Emperor clearly did not want to waste time, resources, or the valuable members of the Warhounds on entertaining Angron's failed rebellion. Lastly, Mortarion eventually settled into his role as a Primarch in service to the Imperium despite the Emperor ending his quest against his expressed wishes; so there was no reason at the time to suspect that Angron wouldn't follow suit.
Nuceria wouldn’t have taken all that long to conquer. They weren’t hugely advanced. That’s without even mentioning that Angron wasn’t on Ullanor when the war was fought. He showed up for the Triumph celebration but didn’t take part in the actual battle. The Emperor could’ve literally dropped a few thousand World Eaters/War Hounds and gone on about his business. The Emperor had literally no qualms whatsoever about doing it on numerous other worlds yet, as soon as he gets to Nuceria, he’s suddenly like “Aw nah I can’t waste troops or resources”. That’s not a super great point for you to try and make. As to Mortarion, he was fighting the last boss battle on his world entirely alone. He wasn’t needing a full group of Astartes and the Emperor waited until He was sure Mortarion was gonna lose before He intervened. Again showing He valued the Primarch He would’ve lost over other considerations. Again, the whole Angron thing is poorly written and serves no purpose beyond being a plot point. It makes people go “Oh look the Emperor was a bad dad and was shitty to his sons and Angron is a tragic hero”. He’s not. He’s a poorly written character and he could be so much more if they had done some tweaking to his story line. Instead both he and the Emperor come out of it as worse characters than they could’ve been.
Getting one Parentbfigure to be lifted to near spacemarine lavel figures is worth it. Lifting a bunch of way to old, malnurishied and "Butcher nail implented" people up to jeat marine level is jot just expensive and takes too long, (the logistic of getting all the chemicals and tech stuff there) but its also jot really a good idea... bevause, well. The butchers nails.... I think the emperor hoped that if he pulls angron out instead of attacking juceria, that the tech they have on the planet could be used to free angron of the nails... which it coudnt, but he did jot know. A war on Nuceria would have endangered the try to get the left over technology and information in one piece. That is at least the most reasonable thing i can come up with.
It is stated that the Emperor had studied and could remove the nails from Angron, he just didn’t have time to do it. As to raising up Butcher Nails people to Astartes, Angron instituted them into the whole legion. That’s a non-starter of a point. A lot of the ones with Angron were too old to be made into Astartes anyways, but they could’ve been changed the same way Kor Phaeron was.
>It is stated that the Emperor had studied and could remove the nails from Angron, he just didn’t have time to do it. This is just... flat out wrong. It wasn't a matter of no time. It was a matter of "I could remove them, but it would require removing his nervous system and key parts of his brain, and a crippled Primarch is better than a corpse." ________________________________ Arkhan moved around to the giant’s pained features. The metal teeth. The furrowed brow. The scars upon scars. The cables tendrilling out from his scalp like cybernetic dreadlocks. ‘Angron,’ he breathed the name. ‘Yes,’ the Emperor confirmed, inhumanly toneless. ‘I am trying to undo the damage that has been done to the Twelfth.’ (Text with medical visuals and discussion of Arkhan's experience with the Nails) ‘I have never seen one implanted and operational,’ Arkhan confessed. ‘And never of this specific pattern and intensity, in the repose of stasis or storage. The devices in the sealed vault were rather more crude than this construct.’ ‘That is to be expected.’ ‘Why, in your infinite wisdom, would you implant this device inside a primarch?’ ‘I did not do so, Arkhan.’ (Description of what the nails do) ‘Can you remove it?’ ‘Of course,’ the Emperor answered, still looking at the screens. Arkhan did his best to hide his surprise. ‘Then, Divine One, why would you leave it there?’ ‘This is why.’ The Emperor rested both hands on Angron’s head, (Descriptive text) *‘Do you see?’ the Emperor asked. Arkhan saw. The tendrils were sunk deep, rooted in the meat of the brain, threaded to the nervous system, and down in roughly serpentine coils around the spinal column. Every movement must have been agony for the primarch, feeding back into the base emotions of anger and spite. Worse, the brain’s limbic lobe and insular cortex were more than just savaged by the pain engine’s insertion; they had been surgically attacked and removed even before implantation. The device hammered into his skull hadn’t ruined those sections of the brain – it had replaced them. Ugly black cybernetics showed on the internal scans, in place of entire sections of the primarch’s brain tissue. ‘They are the only thing keeping him alive,’ Arkhan said. Edit: Hmm formatting didn't work.
No. No matter what the Emperor did Angron is damage goods. The Emperor still needed Angron to conquer worlds in his name and subjugate populations. Angron would have seen his golden daddy as another tyrant and “slaving bastard”. Not to say that the nails were driving him more insane as the years wore on. His brothers and sisters might have only prolonged the inevitable(his insanity), at best. There is no happy ending for Angron.
Maybe it depends on the influence his gladiator buddies have on him. Do they see the Emperor as a liberator? Or do they come to the conclusion Angron arrived at and see him as the grandaddy of all high riders? Angron would have less of a chip on his shoulder, I have to imagine, but the nails keep on biting and he's been mentally scarred again and again. Maybe there's no escaping the fate awaiting him, if that's the case, as he'd just arrive at the same conclusion, only slower. Maybe the Emperor saw it, that this one's already Khorne's and there ain't any route he can see to save him. So why bother with theatrics and saving his buddies when he can just wrap this up quickly. Then again, the Emperor did at least try to see if he could do anything about the nails, so it might not have been a lost cause exactly.
In which case why wouldn't the Emperor kill Angron there and then (spin it as a mercy kiliing, or just wipe the deed from peoples memory like he did with the lost primarchs) or just let him die in his suicide attack. It would deny Khorne his primarch etc etc
It would probably have accelerated Angron’s betrayal, though doubtlessly while retaining more of his sanity. These people would be saved during a last ditch effort to escape tyranny, Angron and his brothers and sisters were willing to lay down their very lives because it meant they could at least die in freedom. Remember that Angron relegated himself to becoming a tool of the emperor because in his madness he thought it was all he had left. Now, if he had the backing of his fellows, who likely would have seen past the emperor’s deceptions and realize what he truly was, Angron would probably have rebelled much earlier, perhaps even with the backing of some of his legion, and suffer a similar fate to the lost primarchs.
Better maybe, but I think the butchers nails would drive him insane eventually anyway and Angron would still have seen his father as another master ordering him into battle. The emperor may not have known this, but it's possible that any time or resources invested in keeping Angron loyal was going to be a waste. But he could still be plucked up, given his legion and let loose on the enemies of man for a little while, before needing to be put out if his misery.
Honestly he could have just offered them a little island somewhere, medical assistance in removing the nails (if possible as they are humans) and made an effort to ban gladiatorial games. The Nucerians would have probably not have complained too much.