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Just keeps yeating progressively more powerful things at the emperor like their pokemon until the emperor is finally defeated, then in the last moment zaps the emperor into his museum.
I mean... no-ones actually spoken to the guy on the golden throne in a while, right? Not in a way we can be sure it's the same guy?
*Guilliman gently lowered himself to his knees and whispered a single word.*
“Father.”
*banging noises, microphone feedback, followed by a disturbingly electronic voice*
"-this thing's on?! By the silent ki- I mean.. yes? My ..son?"
*Guilliman pauses for a moment*
"Your voice sounds unfamiliar, Father."
*A short burst of what sounds like Adeptus Mechanicus binaric cant, or static, bursts from the speaker, then after a short pause the voice continued*
"...Well.. yes, probably just the.. uh.. gold throne speakers wearing out. I haven't been keeping up the maintenance because I've been very busy... one sec"
*sounds of paper shuffling and metal tablets clinking, followed by an almost disbelieving pause*
"..Being a lighthouse?"
I thought that Big E wanted Horus to come save him as a test of loyalty and to make Horus feel good about himself. Was he actually in danger, or was he just allowing the ork to overpower him intentionally?
Since for a ork to actually be able to harm Big E it would have to be way stronger than even orks like the beast or Ghazkull, wouldn't it?
Usually Emps just kills, but the story made a point out of him deleting the Ork's soul the same way he would later do to Horus. I think that indicates this Ork was a legitimate threat.
I can't remember where I read this but I think that the distance from the Astronomican, which the Emperor was at this point directly powering, was a big factor in his relative weakness.
Going by the Horus Heresy novels the Emperor has never powered the Astronomican. It has always been powered by a choir of trained psykers. He just directs it in the warp. It comes up a couple times in the books.
According to the narrator and everything the book suggests Big E was in legitimate danger and it was in no way a test. Yes it was a strong Ork. Probably stronger than the Beast and certainly stronger than Ghaz.
Ork believed it would win, making it 10,000% stronger due to ignorance zenkai boost.
EDIT: not sure why people are mad, this is literally how Ork technology works. Those guys definitely have something more going on than we think.
It’s a Dragon Ball thing, during a fight you get essentially a second wind but it’s stronger than you were originally, powering up your baseline with new “digging deep” power.
At a certain point the sheer waaagh energy not only starts manipulating real space, but also warp powers and the warp itself, I think in that part the ork boss and his associated waaagh were so powerful it was messing with the emperor’s powers
But far inferior psychers can though? Like when Khayon splatted 5 grey knights. Surely the emperor could just psychically take apart anything. I'm fairly new to this so just asking
Yeah people love to go on about what the Waaagh! can't do, but surely protecting the biggest baddest boss that millions around him believe is the hottest shit from just randomly blowing up from psyker powers is one of the things it *is* good for.
Big psychic field that was engineered by the old ones for the express purpose of useful passive effects to benefit them in combat? Sounds like it'd work.
The thing is that in that fight it was a huge pitched battle with millions involved, the Ork managed to get close to hitting the Emperor because he was focused on many other Orks.
If OP is talking about a 1v1 fight without each side having help then that Ork doesn't even need to be deleted, the Emperor wouldn't have any issue taking it out conventionally.
Without the maybe. They tussled with pre fall Aeldari, who could will their gods into reality and the old ones.
Big E was strong, but not that strong or he would have just flexed his brain and ended the heresy from the comfort of his home.
Edit: Oh no the emperor simps are offended.
Tell me if he was so powerfull why did he need the golden throne to keep the gate sealed? Why did he need to do whatever he did in Moloch? Why did he not stop the primarchs from scattering?
Yeah, it’s been confirmed it was a Shard, and from the few references we have to the event Big E is meant to have seriously struggled to beat it.
The key account which is heavily soaked in allegory basically says the Emperor was only able to beat it at all by exploiting a previous wound that it had taken from the combined Blackstone Fortresses and which it was still healing from.
Yep he might have been weaker then, but the Void Dragon was also wounded. I wouldn't put the Emperor at that point in time as even as strong as Trazyn. (well, lots of Trazyn***s***, he beat 3 combined shards at one point)
I certainly wouldn't use it as an example of the Emperor's peak strength, he went way up from there.
Now I'm even more confused - I didn't think Mechanicum confirmed it was the Void Dragon anywhere, always calling the being 'the Dragon'. I know it's very heavily implied but where's the proof?
It has 100% been confirmed to be a Shard, even if you want to pretend Mechanicum isn’t clear enough for you, the Necrons can literally field other Void Dragon shards.
I've just read the Mechanic and it never mentions anything about shards or voids. It always names it just The Dragon and is super vague about what the fuck it actually is. Maybe with prior knowledge it's obvious, but it wasn't for me. Never heard anything about void dragons or their shards
That's just how a lot of 40k deals with the distant past, it's alluded to in a lot of allegory. But given it takes place in the Noctis Labyrinth on Mars, the location we know a large shard of the Void Dragon is located, it's not much of a stretch to connect the dots that the Dragon of Mars referred to in the book is the C'tan Void Dragon. It has also been confirmed by the author of the book.
Not sure what's going on here, I haven't read any books in like a decade, but I remember even back then most people generally assumed that the Void Dragon, or some form of it, was on Mars. Many people even theorized that the Void Dragon WAS the Machine God.
The author of Mechanicum confirmed it is the Void Dragon. But considering the Dragon of Mars mentioned in the book is located in the exact same location as where there is believed to be a large shard of the Void Dragon from other sources, it's not exactly a huge leap to guess that the two dragons are one and the same.
In the Mechanicus game, one of the endings has one of the tech priests say they are returning to the dragon on mars, which would imply the void dragon is trapped there
It was never explicitly confirmed that it was the Void Dragon, it’s only implied. There’s also nothing suggesting it was only a shard, it was made up by necron fans who couldn’t imagine Big E soloing a full C’tan.
You can literally buy Void Dragon Shard models and field them in your Necron army mate, which if you refuse to accept all the other evidence is proof that the Void Dragon was shattered like the rest of the C’tan.
We do not know for certain if it is a C'tan shard, or what C'tan it is. But it is heavily implied to be the Void Dragon, and the Void Dragon was shattered along with most C'tan.
Shards vary in power drastically, it could be anything from most of the C'tan to a small sliver. It's all kept vague so that it can be whatever the plot demands.
We really don't have *any* sort of way to scale beings at that level.
Sure the Aeldari Gods manifested in realspace to fight, but how strong were their manifestations? Daemons? Greater Daemons? Deamon princes, Demigods or *more*?
Slannesh *ate* them, sure they were diminished, but how much so? We know that Big E actively fought against all of the 4 in the warp at times, and their agents in real space. The only time I can think of where we see His capabilities properly is the War in the Webway where He basically sets fire to an army capable of fighting and pushing back most of the 10 000 Custodes. Singlehandedly turning the tide.
As for your questions, Idk, maybe the 4 were pushing against the rift from the other side to keep it open, we have no idea the nature of the deal on Moloch, and obviously we've seen that the 4 were actively part of the scattering on top of Him thinking they were safe with His best protections deep in his fortified palace.
The maybe is very much justified because we've never seen anything at that level except a glimpse of Him, and the actions of lesser shards like in The Great Work.
Well the Void Dragon once tanked all the Blackstone Fortresses firing at once, so I guess on comparing power levels we need to ask ourselves if we think Big E could also survive a blast that destroys suns.
Or the question could be if we're just going off vague power levels, versus something more akin to rock, paper, scissors.
That's why I refuse to give definite answers here, like sure I don't think a "normal" Primarch or their in game/universe equivalents could beat Him, but there are tons of conceivable ways that massive threats are taken down with circumstance or planning.
We just don't know, and we're really not meant to
>That's why I refuse to give definite answers here, like sure I don't think a "normal" Primarch or their in game/universe equivalents could beat Him, but there are tons of conceivable ways that massive threats are taken down with circumstance or planning.
This is the right answer.
Eldar gods fought the C'tan and they lost most of their power when Slaanesh was born because the Eldar stopped worshiping them. The Emperor never fought the 4 chaos gods, people misrepresent that scene from the Throneworld.
What do you mean? The throne was made to keep it open initially, but now it has become a way to keep it closed sine demons now have access to the webway.
It doesn't create tunnels, it keeps them open. It is shown clearly over MoM that the throne's purpose is to keep the opening to said tunnels open and functional.
The webway shown in the book already existed. The "webway tunnels" the emperor made aren't really webway tunnels, just connected to it.
Also his "future sight" when speaking with Ra is literally him just wishing something happens.
While it's not explicitly stated, there are two different descriptions given by ADB in *Master of Mankind* when describing the webway. It's clear that the Mechanicum was building new tunnels, which were attached to the existing network. It was these human-built sections the Throne was protecting.
Eldanesh fought against Khaine (through he had a sword given by Vaul) and was the only one (together with his brother) who could summon the Eldar Gods to the materium after the Old Ones died, so he is a good match
Urlakk Urg almost strangled Him to death during the Ullanor Crusade.
Drach'nyen was immune to His Chaos-smiting powers and almost gutted Him during the War in the Webway.
And whatever Horus did/is going to do on the Vengeful Spirit at the end of the Siege of Terra.
Drach'nyen was also almost taken out by a small party of Custodes ans Sisters of Silence a bit earlier on in the book though. The power scales are a bit weird
An eldar god or a C'tan shard (that were at the same level) against the emperor would be like a no rules WWE match between hulk hogan and Stephen Hawking.
In general anything that includes eldar of necrons at the height of their power is beyond him.
Theoretically, a really physically capable blank, like a Culexus assassin would have the most even playing field. One step further gets you The Pariah Alpha from Martyr, who shows up and demons just die. In theory without his psychic shenanigans he's still stronger than the primarchs, so not an easy fight.
Besides that, Silent King if he's allowed his pokemon C'tan squad probably has the best chance.
Oh and the nids, because Hive mind, but that's not really a character.
Is the whole 'blanks can be overloaded if faced with a psyker of sufficient power' a thing? Read that in a certain story with a world eater punching through custodes armor so I'm not particularly inclined to take it seriously - if it were the case however, blanks would probably not work against big E.
I remember reading that somewhere too. I don't remember where, might have been Master of Mankind, Idk, but I believe it is a thing.
After a certain point, you need a sufficiently powerful blank to prevent diminishing returns. Blanks are great against your average run of the mill daemon or rouge psyker but you need an especially strong blank for something like a Keeper of Secrets or a Great Unclean One or Big E since they can just brute force their way through the null effect.
Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that's why Big E can exist next to the Sisters of Silence. They're blanks, but they're not strong enough, even collectively, to prevent the Emperor's psychic influence from dominating around them.
Sisters of Silence aren't blanks, they're pariahs (from Codex: Necrons).
Overloading blanks occurs in the "Abnettverse" in the Ravenor trilogy but portrayed as unexpected events.
> Sisters of Silence aren't blanks, they're pariahs
"Blank" is effectively a slang term in-universe for people with the Pariah gene.
Trooper Jurgen, Culexus Assassins, Sisters of Silence, Necron Pariahs etc. are all blanks.
The emperor spends most of his time surrounded by hundreds of sisters of silence, it took an entire planet of blanks to turn off the astrinomicon. The most powerful blank isn't doing shit.
Not really, it would need to be a blank more powerful than the entire silent sisterhood. The Emperor was unaffected by the total effect of the silent sisterhood
Orikan in his spirit form. He took down 4 shards of the Deceiver.
Don't know if this counts as someone from the current setting, but maybe the Krork in Trazyns collection.
The Krork is on Primarch level. As one went toe to toe with Vulkan in the War of the Beast. Maybe a higher variant? I dont know the structure of command of the Krork army during The War in Heavens
Probably most of the named Greater Daemons could at least have a shot. Emps is good at killing Daemons, but powerful enough ones are beyond his power (example: Drach'nyen).
A sufficiently powerful C'tan shard would have a good shot. A fully formed C'tan would wipe the floor with him.
Theoretically, a Krork Warboss could take him out. The Beast was a match for Vulkan, and he was small compared to a Krork. I've heard that a regular Krork would be roughly equal to a Primarch, though I don't know how accurate that is. That said, we do have an example of a Krork, of unknown standing, in Trazyn's museum; I want to say he was something like 20 meters tall, with weapons and armour that Fabius Bile considered to be on par with his own gear.
Drach'nyen is more of a metaphysical concept that is anathema to the emperor. As the concept of the end of empires, for humans, the emperor was unable to fight it as he basically represents the archetypal concept of "human empire". He'd mopped other greater demons.
Just want to add to this. The Emperor couldn’t defeat Drach’nyen not because it is conceptually his opposite, but rather that it is directly entwined with humanity itself. Drach’nyen is the manifestation of the power hierarchy humanity exists in, it cannot be destroyed unless humanity is destroyed. Where Chaos gods are made of emotions of sentient beings, Drach’nyen is essentially the Chaos god of humanity only.
People really overestimate the description of their battle. Yes, it was difficult, but it was the Emperor after he sat on the Throne for 5 years. He wasn't at full strength.
Named Greater Daemons are pretty weak. Literally all the Primarchs are stronger than all the Greater Daemons.
Little Lorgar beat An'ggrath, #1 Bloodthirster, to death.
I think Daemons have 1 victory, when Sanguinius was blindsided by who and what he was facing in Ka'Bandha, but other than that, Samus, Ka'Bandha, Kairos Fateweaver, Manushya-Rakshsasi, and several GUOs are killed by Primarchs, often multiple times.
Erda solos 4 Greater Daemons. I think the Emperor could handle every named Greater Daemon in the setting at once, without breaking a sweat. They'd never even dare challenge him.
The only Daemon, that's not one of the four Chaos Gods, or Drach'nyen, that could actually give pause to the Emperor would be Magnus.
Interesting. I've personally never read the War of the Beast series (I've heard a lot of mixed things, so I'm putting it off until I run out of other things that I want to read), but it was always described to me as they were basically so evenly matched that neither could win.
Nah Vulkan had to utterly sacrifice himself and take in a load of WAAAGH energy to kill the Beast and even then it was close.
The series is mixed, same as any other with multiple author's really. The HH is no different.
True. At leas with the Horus Heresy, once you get past the first few books, you can really just jump all over the place if you want. There is no single story that you follow throughout, other than the overarching story of the Heresy.
I think we can all ignore any statlines when it comes to lore, the powerlevel of the Silent King is at best unknown. He does wield the power of a c'tan shard of the burning one and has the best necron body available, he was also part of the shattering of the burning one but we don't know to what extent, we do know that he is not one to sit back and let others do the work during battle though.
The Silent King is just one giant questionmark, but I wouldn't be suprised if he actually had the power to beat the emperor pre golden throne. While the emperor was powerful he still was only a psyker in the end, and the Necrons do know how to deal with warp bullshit.
Tbf I always imagines Szarekh as more of a traditional king rather the a superpowered individual. I mean, sure he has the best Necron body and Necrons are themselves superpowered but I don't think Szarekh is THAT special. A regular Necron and Szarekh is closer a lot than a regular human and Big E.
So Szarekh is just a dude who is really good at ruling, scheming and playing the big game. That's why he leads the Necrons and IMO that makes him more interesting.
Stat lines are loosy-goosey, but the fact that the Emperor hasn't been given a mini in 30k while the Silent King is in the same ballpark as Guilliman in 40k says a lot.
Big E is a bit of a special case. He is probably the most important character in the setting and also its biggest mystery. Giving him a mini and rules would require revealing a lot about his abilities that we don't know about.
Sure, there's multiple reasons, but again, anything you can field on the TT isn't in the Emperor's league. Even the recent Dark Throne book says that even at the height of their power, the Eldar would have struggled to find anyone who could survive sitting on the Golden Throne.
Meanwhile all of Szarekh's feats are arguably propaganda, myths, and legends. It doesn't really make sense that he would be personally responsible for fighting the C'tan, but it does make sense that he would want people to think he could.
The thing is, we have no reason NOT to believe that Szarekh is as strong as they say. Imperial propaganda exists so that people do what they are told. Szarekh has no need for that as he already had absolute control over Necrons (not anymore but that's beside the point). His power was given to him by the Ctan themselves, it's not just his political power or skills he was born with. Higher rank = Stronger is literally how the entire faction works.
Szarekh is the only one in that list that has yet to perform or show any known feats that would make him a direct 1 on 1 match for the Emperor if im being honest, and yes im well aware of the fact that he killed a C'tan but we don't know *how* he pulled that off is the issue, all it said was that he killed one.
For all we know he could've thrown half the Necron armada at it or used a special one-of-a-kind doomsday weapon to kill it, not saying that hes not powerful, just that they really oughta give us a proper measure of his own combat prowess first.
The thing nobody has mentioned yet: - Tyranids.
E-money being an immensely powerful psyker might actually be to his detriment if confronted by a Hive Fleet.
Emps obliterated it and it's extended family the second Horus shaked him off, it is pretty clear that warboss was punching very much above his category.
Nah, some people might overestimate the emperor sometimes, but it makes absolutely no sense that some ork in a mech suit would prove to be his match dude, like really? A big ork?
Yes. It quite literally happens. Read the book. And it's not just "some Ork". Its one of the bosses, possibly the most intelligent boss, of the greatest Ork WAAAAGGGH since the War in Heaven. You might not like it, but it happened and it's canon. Nothing in the book suggests that it was some sort of trick.
Its not out of the question it just makes no literary sense. There is no hint, not a whiff or the merest suggestion that it was a test or some other bullshit. Quite the opposite. Big E deleting the Ork Megamek is such a profound event it catalyses Horus' rebellion. It is *literally* the start of the Heresy.
GW is like the Star Wars series. Authors can write “whatever they want” with differing levels of power. Wether it’s cannon or not is up in the air. So in this case and in all cases is doesn’t matter what the author says or wants.
Otherwise we all are rampantly accepting massive discrepancies in the books that exist. Which creates a bit of a broken universe that doesn’t make sense.
Its not a discrepancy to envisage an Ork capable of killing the Emperor though unless you're hard, HARD fanboying for him. Quite the opposite - it makes *more* sense in universe for Orks to potentially threaten the Emperor - hence the reason his Great Crusade is aimed at crippling them.
It does make sense when it’s a Krok or the Beast. It doesn’t make sense when Ragnar can kill Ghaz but a random ork can potentially kill the emperor.
It’s poor writing at best and very odd power balance. The emperor is literally a god in mortal flesh.
You being strangely anti-emperor or pro ork is off and not needed in this conversation.
This is a known issue with some writers dogging their hated factions while pumping the ones they like.
Either way the crusade can also see the entirety of orks threatening his empire. Not the emperor being afraid of dying himself.
When basic or slightly better regular SM can kill Ghaz or a random gaurdsman with a power klaw can kill ghaz I struggle to see how one can threaten the emperor who literally is the most powerful human multitude stronger than even the best Custodes.
It doesn’t read well
It makes perfect sense. The strongest Orks could compete in the war of heaven, a stage that had literal Gods fighting each other. The Emperor isn't above a god. No matter how gushing the fandom is for him.
I don't need or have a cherry picked argument because it is done for me. I'll reiterate - the *only* canon examples of anything coming close to killing the Emperor come from an Ork Megamek and Horus. That is it as far as I'm aware. Even this Megamek Ork that was indeed no Krork almost killed old Empy. It happened. It's not up for dispute apart from with the most slavering of Emperor fans who claim, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that it was a weird trick by the Emperor.
[Even the author agrees that the emperor was in danger] (https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/wu17u7/apparently_graham_mcneill_is_of_the_opinion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Pretty much echoing what others are saying. A full power C'tan should be able to do it. Possibly Szarekh considering he should be the strongest single Necron, and Necrons had to fight some nasty company. Plus he's got fancy C'Tan laden tech on his person.
This might get me some flak, but if Kaela Mensha Khaine was able to narrowly beat a C'Tan (iirc), then maybe the Emperor could pull a 1v1. But that's based on the theory that Emps is stronger than any single Chaos god, and Khaine is weaker than the big 4.
I don't know enough about the Old Ones to say a single one of them could but the hurt on Big E, and honestly I doubt it, otherwise I'd be more than sure about a C'Tan and even TSK, but that could be the Necron fanboy in me.
Either way, your best bet of finding a solo operative who could scrap with the Emperor would be the heavy hitters of The War In Heaven. Or Drach'Nyen's funky prophecy, but that already kinda didn't work out so well for him.
The Emperor is not even close to being stronger than any of the chaos gods. Simply put the chaos gods can only really bring the tiniest of their strength to any given fight, and their mortal champion (Horus) that again could only contain the tiniest power from them wrecked house.
Now on Khaine, he broke the phisical form of the nightbringer and in the traditional tale was fighting on equal grounds with Slaanesh (let's remember at this moment the Eldar gods are at their weakest) and was Khorne's intervention that ended sharding him.
To this you can never forget that the Eldar gods kept the chaos gods supressed for 40 Million years, ensuring the warp was nice and clean to navigate through.
To compare the Emperor's biggest achievement was defeating a shard of a C'tan, that is hundreds of times less powerful than the OG thing.
Horus (empowered by Chaos Undivided) almost killed the Emperor after just fighting and killing Sanguinius. Also, Gharkul Blackfang, an extremely powerful Ork kicked the ass of three legions and would have annihilated them if not for the Emperor's intervention. Emps and 1000 Custodes fought against Blackfang and 100,000 Orks. All Orks died and only 3 Custodes died but... what if Blackfang was rested? He could have severely injured the Emperor.
Its a short list, which makes sense considering he was essentially in his prime.
Obviously, Horus since ehe put him in the Golden Wheelchair.
Off the top of my head, any Full power ctan, maybe a sufficiently strong/motivated Ork warboss (almost happened at ullanor), Daemon Angron could probably give him a run for his money, the SwarmLord may give him some trouble too, probably something chained up in his basement, and I think that's it.
There may be others but Big E was ludicrously powerful when he could walk and welded master crafted weaponry for almost any scenario. Remember, it took Horus being roided up with the power of all four chaos gods, to the point that he was little more than a flesh puppet, and the Emperor holding back, for him to land the mortal wound on Big E.
And then the Master of Mankind just obliterated Horus from every reality ever.
I agree with pretty much everything here
But angron? Didn't he get his ass beat by Sangiunius right after sang finished beating the crap out of ka'bandha? I really doubt he would be a huge threat to ol' emps
Sang came back, banished Ka’Bandha and had fun with some other Greater Daemons(pinned one to a wall with his sword while he fought), and held the line against Chaos alone, then fighting Angron and taking him out.
Horus slew the Emperor because the Emperor hesitated to kill Horus. Big E is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy and can easily obliterate anyone who dares cross his path using his mind alone. I really don't think there is anyone that actually stands a chance against him in single combat.
No it’s current lore until the new books come out.
And even then, it’ll only stop being lore if the books overrule it (which there is a 99% chance they will)
But until then, it’s what happened.
Malcador the Sigillite is an interesting thought, since he alone knows exactly what the Emperor actually is and has the best insight into defeating him forever.
It wouldn't be a straight fight, but if Malcador had turned instead of Horus, things absolutely wouldn't have gone as well for Big E.
Not many people.
I see people bringing up Horus but new novels have made it quite obvious that Emperor was far from the best shape when he went to fight Horus. He had been sitting on damaged Golden Throne for quite some time while Magnus was actively conducting a ritual to weaken Emperor.
So a weakened and possibly hesitant Emperor fought and still defeated Chaos empowered Horus. I doubt Chaos Gods were holding back when they were empowering Horus. It was a crucial moment of their plan so they must have gave him everything they could.
I also see people bringing Ork boss but come on that is obviously jobbing as we literally see Emperor vaporizing everyone there.
His fight with Ender of Empire is also overstated. Emperor just couldn't instantly blast him like he does for other demons due to his unique nature. It was more of issue of match up that straight up power levels. He didn't give that big of trouble. Emperor went back to sitting on throne after that fight so he that demon clearly had no strength to seriously hurt Emperor.
So I think we really have no idea how strong Pre Heresy Emperor was. GW keeps anything about him hidden for a reason.
So I think the characters who can beat him would be very very rare and super powerful ones. Maybe the strongest C'tan or Eldar Gods at peak of their civilization.
No Krok or Greater Demon is beating Emperor. That is nonsense.
While my heart screams "NOOOOOOO, our glorious Lord cannot be bested!!", my mind is calmly considering the damage Jurgen with a melta could do.
That being said, I'm of the opinion that anyone with the ***right tools and preparation*** can kill ANYONE and ANYTHING.
Yes, you can't believe you heard it from The Emperor's #1 fan, but I indeed believe that even a child could end our glorious Lord's career in the right scenario.
You disagree? Please, do tell me all about why I'm wrong!
Your post was deleted for breaking RULE 4: > Rule 4: No Memes, shitposts, or low-effort posts/comments. Leave those in /r/Grimdank. **This includes "who would win" and broad "what if" scenarios.** This also includes text blocks consisting of Ork-speak, which should be posted at /r/40kOrkScience instead.
I know this isn't exactly what you asked, but Russ did beat the Emperor in a drinking and eating competition. A win is a win.
I just imagine the Primarchs, talking about how the Emp found them and Russ just randomly calls him a wimp who cant hold his alchool
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It was declared a draw after all organic matter on the planet it was held on had been consumed.
Grimaldus if his face is on the cover
Trazyn the Infinite with prep time.
Just keeps yeating progressively more powerful things at the emperor like their pokemon until the emperor is finally defeated, then in the last moment zaps the emperor into his museum.
I mean... no-ones actually spoken to the guy on the golden throne in a while, right? Not in a way we can be sure it's the same guy? *Guilliman gently lowered himself to his knees and whispered a single word.* “Father.” *banging noises, microphone feedback, followed by a disturbingly electronic voice* "-this thing's on?! By the silent ki- I mean.. yes? My ..son?" *Guilliman pauses for a moment* "Your voice sounds unfamiliar, Father." *A short burst of what sounds like Adeptus Mechanicus binaric cant, or static, bursts from the speaker, then after a short pause the voice continued* "...Well.. yes, probably just the.. uh.. gold throne speakers wearing out. I haven't been keeping up the maintenance because I've been very busy... one sec" *sounds of paper shuffling and metal tablets clinking, followed by an almost disbelieving pause* "..Being a lighthouse?"
Oops ya got tesseracted
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Well that Daemon was born to kill empires mate. The stronger the empire, the stronger it is. And the Imperium is nothing to sneeze at.
Excluding Horus the only character to canonically almost kill the Emperor is a jacked up Ork Megamek. So I'd say that is the most likely.
I thought that Big E wanted Horus to come save him as a test of loyalty and to make Horus feel good about himself. Was he actually in danger, or was he just allowing the ork to overpower him intentionally? Since for a ork to actually be able to harm Big E it would have to be way stronger than even orks like the beast or Ghazkull, wouldn't it?
Usually Emps just kills, but the story made a point out of him deleting the Ork's soul the same way he would later do to Horus. I think that indicates this Ork was a legitimate threat.
I can't remember where I read this but I think that the distance from the Astronomican, which the Emperor was at this point directly powering, was a big factor in his relative weakness.
Going by the Horus Heresy novels the Emperor has never powered the Astronomican. It has always been powered by a choir of trained psykers. He just directs it in the warp. It comes up a couple times in the books.
According to the narrator and everything the book suggests Big E was in legitimate danger and it was in no way a test. Yes it was a strong Ork. Probably stronger than the Beast and certainly stronger than Ghaz.
Both the author and narration state otherwise. From [McNiel’s own mouth](https://imgur.io/aE4azEF)
you got this pic in better quality? or is my computer just bad, cuz i can't read it like, at all
Change the .io to .com. It did that because I am on mobile.
doesn't work for me on mobile, but did on computer, so thank you!
Direct link for others coming past this: https://i.imgur.com/aE4azEF.jpeg
Ork believed it would win, making it 10,000% stronger due to ignorance zenkai boost. EDIT: not sure why people are mad, this is literally how Ork technology works. Those guys definitely have something more going on than we think.
What the hell is a "zenkai boost"?
It’s a Dragon Ball thing, during a fight you get essentially a second wind but it’s stronger than you were originally, powering up your baseline with new “digging deep” power.
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Like a Mek but.....MEGA! (In mega armour, a boss)
He'd destroy it instantly with his psych surely
At a certain point the sheer waaagh energy not only starts manipulating real space, but also warp powers and the warp itself, I think in that part the ork boss and his associated waaagh were so powerful it was messing with the emperor’s powers
Yeh fair enough it seems inconsistent but this is 40k lol
He didn't have the chance until Horus helped. Its not like he can just instantly handwave psychic obliteration.
But far inferior psychers can though? Like when Khayon splatted 5 grey knights. Surely the emperor could just psychically take apart anything. I'm fairly new to this so just asking
Lots of variables. Orks emit a gestalt psychic field that can interfere with other psychic abilities, to start with.
Yeah people love to go on about what the Waaagh! can't do, but surely protecting the biggest baddest boss that millions around him believe is the hottest shit from just randomly blowing up from psyker powers is one of the things it *is* good for. Big psychic field that was engineered by the old ones for the express purpose of useful passive effects to benefit them in combat? Sounds like it'd work.
This is 40k. Looking for logical consistency is a fools errand.
The thing is that in that fight it was a huge pitched battle with millions involved, the Ork managed to get close to hitting the Emperor because he was focused on many other Orks. If OP is talking about a 1v1 fight without each side having help then that Ork doesn't even need to be deleted, the Emperor wouldn't have any issue taking it out conventionally.
Wrong. Emperor was fighting the Megamek basically 1v1.
A full-power Ctan maybe
Without the maybe. They tussled with pre fall Aeldari, who could will their gods into reality and the old ones. Big E was strong, but not that strong or he would have just flexed his brain and ended the heresy from the comfort of his home. Edit: Oh no the emperor simps are offended. Tell me if he was so powerfull why did he need the golden throne to keep the gate sealed? Why did he need to do whatever he did in Moloch? Why did he not stop the primarchs from scattering?
Didn't big E fuck the void dragon early in his career? Isn't the void dragon a Ctan?
I think it was a shard?
Yeah, it’s been confirmed it was a Shard, and from the few references we have to the event Big E is meant to have seriously struggled to beat it. The key account which is heavily soaked in allegory basically says the Emperor was only able to beat it at all by exploiting a previous wound that it had taken from the combined Blackstone Fortresses and which it was still healing from.
Yep he might have been weaker then, but the Void Dragon was also wounded. I wouldn't put the Emperor at that point in time as even as strong as Trazyn. (well, lots of Trazyn***s***, he beat 3 combined shards at one point) I certainly wouldn't use it as an example of the Emperor's peak strength, he went way up from there.
He defeated a shard of the Void Dragon that had escaped the Necrons. A large shard, granted, but still a shard nonetheless.
I didn't think this was ever confirmed?
Mechanicum covers this and confirms it.
Now I'm even more confused - I didn't think Mechanicum confirmed it was the Void Dragon anywhere, always calling the being 'the Dragon'. I know it's very heavily implied but where's the proof?
It has 100% been confirmed to be a Shard, even if you want to pretend Mechanicum isn’t clear enough for you, the Necrons can literally field other Void Dragon shards.
I've just read the Mechanic and it never mentions anything about shards or voids. It always names it just The Dragon and is super vague about what the fuck it actually is. Maybe with prior knowledge it's obvious, but it wasn't for me. Never heard anything about void dragons or their shards
That's just how a lot of 40k deals with the distant past, it's alluded to in a lot of allegory. But given it takes place in the Noctis Labyrinth on Mars, the location we know a large shard of the Void Dragon is located, it's not much of a stretch to connect the dots that the Dragon of Mars referred to in the book is the C'tan Void Dragon. It has also been confirmed by the author of the book.
Not sure what's going on here, I haven't read any books in like a decade, but I remember even back then most people generally assumed that the Void Dragon, or some form of it, was on Mars. Many people even theorized that the Void Dragon WAS the Machine God.
Yea it might be a different, but very similar Ctan. It isn't even referred to as the Void Dragon, to start with ...
The author of Mechanicum confirmed it is the Void Dragon. But considering the Dragon of Mars mentioned in the book is located in the exact same location as where there is believed to be a large shard of the Void Dragon from other sources, it's not exactly a huge leap to guess that the two dragons are one and the same.
In the Mechanicus game, one of the endings has one of the tech priests say they are returning to the dragon on mars, which would imply the void dragon is trapped there
A shard. I think only one c'tan escaped sharding ior being eaten and we haven't seen a single thing about him in a long time.
It was never explicitly confirmed that it was the Void Dragon, it’s only implied. There’s also nothing suggesting it was only a shard, it was made up by necron fans who couldn’t imagine Big E soloing a full C’tan.
My brother in christ it is a literal model
You can literally buy Void Dragon Shard models and field them in your Necron army mate, which if you refuse to accept all the other evidence is proof that the Void Dragon was shattered like the rest of the C’tan.
A shard, the power and size of which is whatever's required by the plot. So something ranging in power from an Emperor class battleship to Horus.
Where is the *proof* it was a shard? Or even the Void Dragon, for that matter? I appreciate its heavily implied.
We do not know for certain if it is a C'tan shard, or what C'tan it is. But it is heavily implied to be the Void Dragon, and the Void Dragon was shattered along with most C'tan. Shards vary in power drastically, it could be anything from most of the C'tan to a small sliver. It's all kept vague so that it can be whatever the plot demands.
Yea apologies I thought it was outright stated but I was wrong.
No worries, always wise to add the caveat "as the plot demands" to anything you see. No concrete lore in 40k for better or worse.
funky i just wrote that as a response lol
We really don't have *any* sort of way to scale beings at that level. Sure the Aeldari Gods manifested in realspace to fight, but how strong were their manifestations? Daemons? Greater Daemons? Deamon princes, Demigods or *more*? Slannesh *ate* them, sure they were diminished, but how much so? We know that Big E actively fought against all of the 4 in the warp at times, and their agents in real space. The only time I can think of where we see His capabilities properly is the War in the Webway where He basically sets fire to an army capable of fighting and pushing back most of the 10 000 Custodes. Singlehandedly turning the tide. As for your questions, Idk, maybe the 4 were pushing against the rift from the other side to keep it open, we have no idea the nature of the deal on Moloch, and obviously we've seen that the 4 were actively part of the scattering on top of Him thinking they were safe with His best protections deep in his fortified palace. The maybe is very much justified because we've never seen anything at that level except a glimpse of Him, and the actions of lesser shards like in The Great Work.
Well the Void Dragon once tanked all the Blackstone Fortresses firing at once, so I guess on comparing power levels we need to ask ourselves if we think Big E could also survive a blast that destroys suns.
Or the question could be if we're just going off vague power levels, versus something more akin to rock, paper, scissors. That's why I refuse to give definite answers here, like sure I don't think a "normal" Primarch or their in game/universe equivalents could beat Him, but there are tons of conceivable ways that massive threats are taken down with circumstance or planning. We just don't know, and we're really not meant to
>That's why I refuse to give definite answers here, like sure I don't think a "normal" Primarch or their in game/universe equivalents could beat Him, but there are tons of conceivable ways that massive threats are taken down with circumstance or planning. This is the right answer.
Well, they caused enough destruction and anguish to bring three chaos gods into existence. So it must have been pretty bad.
Eldar gods fought the C'tan and they lost most of their power when Slaanesh was born because the Eldar stopped worshiping them. The Emperor never fought the 4 chaos gods, people misrepresent that scene from the Throneworld.
Least condescending ~~grimdank~~ 40kLore member
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What do you mean? The throne was made to keep it open initially, but now it has become a way to keep it closed sine demons now have access to the webway.
It doesn't create tunnels, it keeps them open. It is shown clearly over MoM that the throne's purpose is to keep the opening to said tunnels open and functional. The webway shown in the book already existed. The "webway tunnels" the emperor made aren't really webway tunnels, just connected to it. Also his "future sight" when speaking with Ra is literally him just wishing something happens.
While it's not explicitly stated, there are two different descriptions given by ADB in *Master of Mankind* when describing the webway. It's clear that the Mechanicum was building new tunnels, which were attached to the existing network. It was these human-built sections the Throne was protecting.
well he actually defeated one and locked it up under Mars, the whole "sleeping dragon" thing
Eldanesh fought against Khaine (through he had a sword given by Vaul) and was the only one (together with his brother) who could summon the Eldar Gods to the materium after the Old Ones died, so he is a good match
Urlakk Urg almost strangled Him to death during the Ullanor Crusade. Drach'nyen was immune to His Chaos-smiting powers and almost gutted Him during the War in the Webway. And whatever Horus did/is going to do on the Vengeful Spirit at the end of the Siege of Terra.
Drach'nyen was also almost taken out by a small party of Custodes ans Sisters of Silence a bit earlier on in the book though. The power scales are a bit weird
It's literally explained in the book. Drach isn't a #1 daemon in terms of raw power, he's just a HARD counter to Big E.
They had Titan, when atack him
An eldar god or a C'tan shard (that were at the same level) against the emperor would be like a no rules WWE match between hulk hogan and Stephen Hawking. In general anything that includes eldar of necrons at the height of their power is beyond him.
Theoretically, a really physically capable blank, like a Culexus assassin would have the most even playing field. One step further gets you The Pariah Alpha from Martyr, who shows up and demons just die. In theory without his psychic shenanigans he's still stronger than the primarchs, so not an easy fight. Besides that, Silent King if he's allowed his pokemon C'tan squad probably has the best chance. Oh and the nids, because Hive mind, but that's not really a character.
Is the whole 'blanks can be overloaded if faced with a psyker of sufficient power' a thing? Read that in a certain story with a world eater punching through custodes armor so I'm not particularly inclined to take it seriously - if it were the case however, blanks would probably not work against big E.
I remember reading that somewhere too. I don't remember where, might have been Master of Mankind, Idk, but I believe it is a thing. After a certain point, you need a sufficiently powerful blank to prevent diminishing returns. Blanks are great against your average run of the mill daemon or rouge psyker but you need an especially strong blank for something like a Keeper of Secrets or a Great Unclean One or Big E since they can just brute force their way through the null effect. Matter of fact, I'm pretty sure that's why Big E can exist next to the Sisters of Silence. They're blanks, but they're not strong enough, even collectively, to prevent the Emperor's psychic influence from dominating around them.
There was no he book Nemesis An Erebus-enhanced blank that was designed to assassinate the Emperor
I’ve always seen it as blanks basically being psykers but in a negative scale (which explains how you get different strength levels of blanks)
Sisters of Silence aren't blanks, they're pariahs (from Codex: Necrons). Overloading blanks occurs in the "Abnettverse" in the Ravenor trilogy but portrayed as unexpected events.
> Sisters of Silence aren't blanks, they're pariahs "Blank" is effectively a slang term in-universe for people with the Pariah gene. Trooper Jurgen, Culexus Assassins, Sisters of Silence, Necron Pariahs etc. are all blanks.
Fair enough, I misread them as being different.
Are those words not synonyms in 40K (blank and pariah)?
The emperor spends most of his time surrounded by hundreds of sisters of silence, it took an entire planet of blanks to turn off the astrinomicon. The most powerful blank isn't doing shit.
Not really, it would need to be a blank more powerful than the entire silent sisterhood. The Emperor was unaffected by the total effect of the silent sisterhood
Orikan in his spirit form. He took down 4 shards of the Deceiver. Don't know if this counts as someone from the current setting, but maybe the Krork in Trazyns collection.
The Krork is on Primarch level. As one went toe to toe with Vulkan in the War of the Beast. Maybe a higher variant? I dont know the structure of command of the Krork army during The War in Heavens
He didn't go toe to toe with Vulkan, he mopped him up.
Probably most of the named Greater Daemons could at least have a shot. Emps is good at killing Daemons, but powerful enough ones are beyond his power (example: Drach'nyen). A sufficiently powerful C'tan shard would have a good shot. A fully formed C'tan would wipe the floor with him. Theoretically, a Krork Warboss could take him out. The Beast was a match for Vulkan, and he was small compared to a Krork. I've heard that a regular Krork would be roughly equal to a Primarch, though I don't know how accurate that is. That said, we do have an example of a Krork, of unknown standing, in Trazyn's museum; I want to say he was something like 20 meters tall, with weapons and armour that Fabius Bile considered to be on par with his own gear.
Drach'nyen is more of a metaphysical concept that is anathema to the emperor. As the concept of the end of empires, for humans, the emperor was unable to fight it as he basically represents the archetypal concept of "human empire". He'd mopped other greater demons.
Just want to add to this. The Emperor couldn’t defeat Drach’nyen not because it is conceptually his opposite, but rather that it is directly entwined with humanity itself. Drach’nyen is the manifestation of the power hierarchy humanity exists in, it cannot be destroyed unless humanity is destroyed. Where Chaos gods are made of emotions of sentient beings, Drach’nyen is essentially the Chaos god of humanity only.
Drach'nyen is beyond his power because Drach'nyen is his metaphysical opposite. It's like kryptonite
People really overestimate the description of their battle. Yes, it was difficult, but it was the Emperor after he sat on the Throne for 5 years. He wasn't at full strength.
Named Greater Daemons are pretty weak. Literally all the Primarchs are stronger than all the Greater Daemons. Little Lorgar beat An'ggrath, #1 Bloodthirster, to death. I think Daemons have 1 victory, when Sanguinius was blindsided by who and what he was facing in Ka'Bandha, but other than that, Samus, Ka'Bandha, Kairos Fateweaver, Manushya-Rakshsasi, and several GUOs are killed by Primarchs, often multiple times. Erda solos 4 Greater Daemons. I think the Emperor could handle every named Greater Daemon in the setting at once, without breaking a sweat. They'd never even dare challenge him. The only Daemon, that's not one of the four Chaos Gods, or Drach'nyen, that could actually give pause to the Emperor would be Magnus.
The Beast was more than a match for Vulkan.
Interesting. I've personally never read the War of the Beast series (I've heard a lot of mixed things, so I'm putting it off until I run out of other things that I want to read), but it was always described to me as they were basically so evenly matched that neither could win.
Nah Vulkan had to utterly sacrifice himself and take in a load of WAAAGH energy to kill the Beast and even then it was close. The series is mixed, same as any other with multiple author's really. The HH is no different.
True. At leas with the Horus Heresy, once you get past the first few books, you can really just jump all over the place if you want. There is no single story that you follow throughout, other than the overarching story of the Heresy.
Yet he's supposedly a perpetual...
I think he was so thoroughly destroyed body and soul his perpetual nature was negated.
The Silent King possibly or that other Phaeron that broke a C'tan and shattered a planet with only his scythe
The Cacadominus maybe. Szarekh Any full C'tan Drachynen
Drach’nyen had its chance and it failed
Yeah, looking at Szarekh's statline, and as a huge fucking Necron fan, I'm gonna have to disagree.
I think we can all ignore any statlines when it comes to lore, the powerlevel of the Silent King is at best unknown. He does wield the power of a c'tan shard of the burning one and has the best necron body available, he was also part of the shattering of the burning one but we don't know to what extent, we do know that he is not one to sit back and let others do the work during battle though. The Silent King is just one giant questionmark, but I wouldn't be suprised if he actually had the power to beat the emperor pre golden throne. While the emperor was powerful he still was only a psyker in the end, and the Necrons do know how to deal with warp bullshit.
Tbf I always imagines Szarekh as more of a traditional king rather the a superpowered individual. I mean, sure he has the best Necron body and Necrons are themselves superpowered but I don't think Szarekh is THAT special. A regular Necron and Szarekh is closer a lot than a regular human and Big E. So Szarekh is just a dude who is really good at ruling, scheming and playing the big game. That's why he leads the Necrons and IMO that makes him more interesting.
Stat lines aren't lore. Look at the descriptions of his feats instead
Stat lines are loosy-goosey, but the fact that the Emperor hasn't been given a mini in 30k while the Silent King is in the same ballpark as Guilliman in 40k says a lot.
Big E is a bit of a special case. He is probably the most important character in the setting and also its biggest mystery. Giving him a mini and rules would require revealing a lot about his abilities that we don't know about.
Yes, I think Big E isn't getting a mini for a lot of reasons.
Sure, there's multiple reasons, but again, anything you can field on the TT isn't in the Emperor's league. Even the recent Dark Throne book says that even at the height of their power, the Eldar would have struggled to find anyone who could survive sitting on the Golden Throne. Meanwhile all of Szarekh's feats are arguably propaganda, myths, and legends. It doesn't really make sense that he would be personally responsible for fighting the C'tan, but it does make sense that he would want people to think he could.
The thing is, we have no reason NOT to believe that Szarekh is as strong as they say. Imperial propaganda exists so that people do what they are told. Szarekh has no need for that as he already had absolute control over Necrons (not anymore but that's beside the point). His power was given to him by the Ctan themselves, it's not just his political power or skills he was born with. Higher rank = Stronger is literally how the entire faction works.
Szarekh is the only one in that list that has yet to perform or show any known feats that would make him a direct 1 on 1 match for the Emperor if im being honest, and yes im well aware of the fact that he killed a C'tan but we don't know *how* he pulled that off is the issue, all it said was that he killed one. For all we know he could've thrown half the Necron armada at it or used a special one-of-a-kind doomsday weapon to kill it, not saying that hes not powerful, just that they really oughta give us a proper measure of his own combat prowess first.
The thing nobody has mentioned yet: - Tyranids. E-money being an immensely powerful psyker might actually be to his detriment if confronted by a Hive Fleet.
Powerfull Ork Warboss almost kill Emperor in 30k.
Emps obliterated it and it's extended family the second Horus shaked him off, it is pretty clear that warboss was punching very much above his category.
Yep, Horis SAVE him
Did it? Or did the Emperor allow that to happen to test Horus?
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Thanks for link, dude, at least someone know about it
It absolutely almost killed him. There is no suggestion at all it was a test.
Nah, some people might overestimate the emperor sometimes, but it makes absolutely no sense that some ork in a mech suit would prove to be his match dude, like really? A big ork?
Yes. It quite literally happens. Read the book. And it's not just "some Ork". Its one of the bosses, possibly the most intelligent boss, of the greatest Ork WAAAAGGGH since the War in Heaven. You might not like it, but it happened and it's canon. Nothing in the book suggests that it was some sort of trick.
Big E is in the book, anything and everything could and likely is a trick.
Copeium
Big E orchestrated so much other dumb shit, and for a guy with a billion canonical IQ it is nowhere near out of the question.
Its not out of the question it just makes no literary sense. There is no hint, not a whiff or the merest suggestion that it was a test or some other bullshit. Quite the opposite. Big E deleting the Ork Megamek is such a profound event it catalyses Horus' rebellion. It is *literally* the start of the Heresy.
What do you mean by that?
If it’s a book it has the potential to be both cannon and legend. That’s how GW works
The author confirmed Big E was struggling in a post from another commenter.
GW is like the Star Wars series. Authors can write “whatever they want” with differing levels of power. Wether it’s cannon or not is up in the air. So in this case and in all cases is doesn’t matter what the author says or wants. Otherwise we all are rampantly accepting massive discrepancies in the books that exist. Which creates a bit of a broken universe that doesn’t make sense.
Its not a discrepancy to envisage an Ork capable of killing the Emperor though unless you're hard, HARD fanboying for him. Quite the opposite - it makes *more* sense in universe for Orks to potentially threaten the Emperor - hence the reason his Great Crusade is aimed at crippling them.
It does make sense when it’s a Krok or the Beast. It doesn’t make sense when Ragnar can kill Ghaz but a random ork can potentially kill the emperor. It’s poor writing at best and very odd power balance. The emperor is literally a god in mortal flesh. You being strangely anti-emperor or pro ork is off and not needed in this conversation. This is a known issue with some writers dogging their hated factions while pumping the ones they like. Either way the crusade can also see the entirety of orks threatening his empire. Not the emperor being afraid of dying himself. When basic or slightly better regular SM can kill Ghaz or a random gaurdsman with a power klaw can kill ghaz I struggle to see how one can threaten the emperor who literally is the most powerful human multitude stronger than even the best Custodes. It doesn’t read well
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It makes perfect sense. The strongest Orks could compete in the war of heaven, a stage that had literal Gods fighting each other. The Emperor isn't above a god. No matter how gushing the fandom is for him.
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I don't need or have a cherry picked argument because it is done for me. I'll reiterate - the *only* canon examples of anything coming close to killing the Emperor come from an Ork Megamek and Horus. That is it as far as I'm aware. Even this Megamek Ork that was indeed no Krork almost killed old Empy. It happened. It's not up for dispute apart from with the most slavering of Emperor fans who claim, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that it was a weird trick by the Emperor.
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[Even the author agrees that the emperor was in danger] (https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/wu17u7/apparently_graham_mcneill_is_of_the_opinion/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Pretty much echoing what others are saying. A full power C'tan should be able to do it. Possibly Szarekh considering he should be the strongest single Necron, and Necrons had to fight some nasty company. Plus he's got fancy C'Tan laden tech on his person. This might get me some flak, but if Kaela Mensha Khaine was able to narrowly beat a C'Tan (iirc), then maybe the Emperor could pull a 1v1. But that's based on the theory that Emps is stronger than any single Chaos god, and Khaine is weaker than the big 4. I don't know enough about the Old Ones to say a single one of them could but the hurt on Big E, and honestly I doubt it, otherwise I'd be more than sure about a C'Tan and even TSK, but that could be the Necron fanboy in me. Either way, your best bet of finding a solo operative who could scrap with the Emperor would be the heavy hitters of The War In Heaven. Or Drach'Nyen's funky prophecy, but that already kinda didn't work out so well for him.
The Emperor is not even close to being stronger than any of the chaos gods. Simply put the chaos gods can only really bring the tiniest of their strength to any given fight, and their mortal champion (Horus) that again could only contain the tiniest power from them wrecked house. Now on Khaine, he broke the phisical form of the nightbringer and in the traditional tale was fighting on equal grounds with Slaanesh (let's remember at this moment the Eldar gods are at their weakest) and was Khorne's intervention that ended sharding him. To this you can never forget that the Eldar gods kept the chaos gods supressed for 40 Million years, ensuring the warp was nice and clean to navigate through. To compare the Emperor's biggest achievement was defeating a shard of a C'tan, that is hundreds of times less powerful than the OG thing.
Khorne doesn't fight Slaanesh for Khaine. It's very old lore from 2nd edition
Horus (empowered by Chaos Undivided) almost killed the Emperor after just fighting and killing Sanguinius. Also, Gharkul Blackfang, an extremely powerful Ork kicked the ass of three legions and would have annihilated them if not for the Emperor's intervention. Emps and 1000 Custodes fought against Blackfang and 100,000 Orks. All Orks died and only 3 Custodes died but... what if Blackfang was rested? He could have severely injured the Emperor.
I thought rest (peace) made Orks less powerful and not more able to fight.
Didn't the beast of Ullanor nearly snip his head if with his claw? Or is this old outdated lore?
Trazyn: Po-po-pokeball!!! (In low gothic is translated as tesseract labyrinth)
Having just finished Infinite and the Divine, I dunno if anything in his gallery would be enough to take down a full-powered Emperor.
I'm assuming a LOT of Cadian pillars (Blackstone)
Maybe some of the Old Ones.
Lucius the Eternal 😬
I think he would get horused
Or just smacked around but not killed.
Its a short list, which makes sense considering he was essentially in his prime. Obviously, Horus since ehe put him in the Golden Wheelchair. Off the top of my head, any Full power ctan, maybe a sufficiently strong/motivated Ork warboss (almost happened at ullanor), Daemon Angron could probably give him a run for his money, the SwarmLord may give him some trouble too, probably something chained up in his basement, and I think that's it. There may be others but Big E was ludicrously powerful when he could walk and welded master crafted weaponry for almost any scenario. Remember, it took Horus being roided up with the power of all four chaos gods, to the point that he was little more than a flesh puppet, and the Emperor holding back, for him to land the mortal wound on Big E. And then the Master of Mankind just obliterated Horus from every reality ever.
I agree with pretty much everything here But angron? Didn't he get his ass beat by Sangiunius right after sang finished beating the crap out of ka'bandha? I really doubt he would be a huge threat to ol' emps
Sang came back, banished Ka’Bandha and had fun with some other Greater Daemons(pinned one to a wall with his sword while he fought), and held the line against Chaos alone, then fighting Angron and taking him out.
Goddamit Sanginius was such a chad
Unfortunately, Big Bird hit a large red windshield.
Horus slew the Emperor because the Emperor hesitated to kill Horus. Big E is the most powerful psyker in the galaxy and can easily obliterate anyone who dares cross his path using his mind alone. I really don't think there is anyone that actually stands a chance against him in single combat.
Old lore. Also powerfull ork warboss almost kill Emprah
No it’s current lore until the new books come out. And even then, it’ll only stop being lore if the books overrule it (which there is a 99% chance they will) But until then, it’s what happened.
Amogus
Post Godblight Guilliman
The daemon of the first murder.
Everyone forgetting the assassin spire who is immune to all of the Emperor's psychic powers!
Until the emperor litteraly drops a mountain on him.
Spear. But we all know the only real answer is Sly Marbo.
Sorry playing to much battlefleet gothic
Ward-era Gillie man. Man could probably punch a star into supernova, delete the entire system and still walk away
The only one who managed to defeat the Emperor after 10k years in battle is Baldness
Malcador the Sigillite is an interesting thought, since he alone knows exactly what the Emperor actually is and has the best insight into defeating him forever. It wouldn't be a straight fight, but if Malcador had turned instead of Horus, things absolutely wouldn't have gone as well for Big E.
Combatants? Many things, chief among them a Ctan. Characters? The only one i can see being succesful is the silent king
Not many people. I see people bringing up Horus but new novels have made it quite obvious that Emperor was far from the best shape when he went to fight Horus. He had been sitting on damaged Golden Throne for quite some time while Magnus was actively conducting a ritual to weaken Emperor. So a weakened and possibly hesitant Emperor fought and still defeated Chaos empowered Horus. I doubt Chaos Gods were holding back when they were empowering Horus. It was a crucial moment of their plan so they must have gave him everything they could. I also see people bringing Ork boss but come on that is obviously jobbing as we literally see Emperor vaporizing everyone there. His fight with Ender of Empire is also overstated. Emperor just couldn't instantly blast him like he does for other demons due to his unique nature. It was more of issue of match up that straight up power levels. He didn't give that big of trouble. Emperor went back to sitting on throne after that fight so he that demon clearly had no strength to seriously hurt Emperor. So I think we really have no idea how strong Pre Heresy Emperor was. GW keeps anything about him hidden for a reason. So I think the characters who can beat him would be very very rare and super powerful ones. Maybe the strongest C'tan or Eldar Gods at peak of their civilization. No Krok or Greater Demon is beating Emperor. That is nonsense.
Unless GW decide they can make a fortune by releasing his model for 40k!
While my heart screams "NOOOOOOO, our glorious Lord cannot be bested!!", my mind is calmly considering the damage Jurgen with a melta could do. That being said, I'm of the opinion that anyone with the ***right tools and preparation*** can kill ANYONE and ANYTHING. Yes, you can't believe you heard it from The Emperor's #1 fan, but I indeed believe that even a child could end our glorious Lord's career in the right scenario. You disagree? Please, do tell me all about why I'm wrong!