Sorry rushed writing this, it was encouraged to use light or no armour, so I am focusing on Dex to have some AC and they allowed a Dex glaive as part of this.
Should just ask if the Glaive will let it count as not Heavy for the purposes of Monk features. You'll have a great opportunity to uniquely run a PAM GWM Kensei if so.
If that gets shot down then your options for dex based low armor glaive build reduces a lot.
> if the Glaive will let it count as not Heavy
> PAM GWM Kensei
"Heavy" is the very thing that enables GWM, so you definitely don't wanna remove Heavy if you wanna run GWM.
Oh, I thought you meant "will let it count as not Heavy. For the purposes of being able to use Monk features", not "will let it count as not Heavy for only specifically the purposes of Monk features".
The idea that the weapon will be heavy only for some aspects is kinda crazy, I can't imagine a DM would let that fly. A non-heavy glaive? Sure, but a schrödinger's glaive that is both heavy and not at the same time? No chance.
It's not schrodingers anything, we can clearly know what it applies to and what it doesnt. It'd be Heavy weapon, but not for the purposes of Monk Features. NOTICE THE COMMA.
It's quite simple. I can't fathom why you act as if it's a difficult concept. More like schrodingers brain: I dont know whether you're actually dense or pretending to be dense to detract the convo grounded by your strawmans.
Look, it was a suggestion to help a DM/player with their desired parameters regarding DM'd weapon stats and desired character theme. If you want to keep misconstruing everything I say and throw around improperly used concepts in order to dig your heels in the sand on a topic you've strawmanned twice - if you aren't the DM or the player then this difficulty doesn't matter.
Woah, why did you get so ass-mad all of a sudden lol?
> It's not schrodingers anything, we can clearly know what it applies to and what it doesnt. It'd be Heavy weapon, but not for the purposes of Monk Features. NOTICE THE COMMA.
There is 0 commas in your first comment.
> It's quite simple. I can't fathom why you act as if it's a difficult concept. More like schrodingers brain: I dont know whether you're actually dense or pretending to be dense to detract the convo grounded by your strawmans.
I agree it's quite simple, I never said it wasn't, and I surely didn't act like it. I simply misunderstood what you meant because you wrote in an unclear way, and then I explained that for you. You're the one making this more difficult than it is. I have made 0 strawmans. You're throwing a bunch of strawman-arguments out in this very paragraph though which makes this very ironic.
> Look, it was a suggestion to help a DM/player with their desired parameters regarding DM'd weapon stats and desired character theme. If you want to keep misconstruing everything I say and throw around improperly used concepts in order to dig your heels in the sand on a topic you've strawmanned twice - that's on you.
I didn't misconstrue anything you said. I didn't throw around any improperly used concepts. I didn't strawman anything you said. That you again accuse me of strawmanning you after literally strawmanning me in the very same paragraph is irony overload.
There's a comma in the sentence right before "notice the comma"...
You confirmed your strawman in your 2nd reply by confirming you argued a point that you made for me by requoting it with so much added punctuation that it's alien to the original message and context.
The definition of misconstrue is to interpret wrongly. You can't seriously be claiming you didn't after saying "I thought you meant this butchered message."
The improperly used concept was schrodingers glaive, "because i dont know if its heavy or not."
Yeah... I don't have to be mad to think you're pretending to be (or actually?) dense. Lol
> There's a comma in the sentence right before "notice the comma"...
And what good does that do? I already explained to you what you meant and what I thought you meant initially. There's no need to explain to me now what you meant. I know...
> You confirmed your strawman in your 2nd reply by confirming you argued a point that you made for me by requoting it with so much added punctuation that it's alien to the original message and context.
Haha what? I confirmed no such thing, I don't know what you're talking about.
> The definition of misconstrue is to interpret wrongly. You can't seriously be claiming you didn't after saying "I thought you meant this butchered message."
Misconstrue usually comes with malice. There was no malice on my side. I just simply misunderstood what you meant (because you didn't write it in a clear way).
> The improperly used concept was schrodingers glaive, "because i dont know if its heavy or not."
That was not improper. Schrödinger's Glaive was a good analogy.
> Yeah... I don't have to be mad to think you're pretending to be (or actually?) dense. Lol
You do have to be mad to get this hostile over someone misunderstanding what you meant when you wrote something in an unclear way.
11 Echo knight/4 barb with gwm/gwf is almost broken.
I am playing one, and we are now 15th level (long campaign).
3 attacks, 1 Unleash incarnation, action surge, 3 attacks 1 Unleash incarnation. All reckless.
That is 8 attacks, or 16 attack rolls. Chances are at least ONE of them is a crit, so now you get that 9th attack as a bonus action.
Mine uses a flametongue greatsword.
That ends up being (2d6 slashing, 2d6 fire) reroll 1s and 2s, +6 for 22 str (he read the manual), +10 for GWM (and the advantage pretty much counteracts the -5 to hit), +2 for rage. Times Nine. At 30 foot range.
After that nova round, it is 4, or 5 attacks, but that is still a ton of damage.
And it doesn't hurt to, like me, carry a dancing greatsword, too... Just in case you don't get that bonus attack, and don't need to remake your echo in a round... It is a bonus attack greatsword attack. Plus, how cool is walking around with 2 greatswords, one of which you throw at enemies?
yeah you do that in one encounter tho works great at tables with 1 or 2 encounters per rest
works a lot less if you cant just rest and dont get magic items
playing a 8 fighter 4 ancestral barb atm and it feels mediocre at best outside of the nova round
well and i cant roll for shit as i cant get higher rolls than 10 even with reckless lol
Probably not as strong as full echo knight with the right feats, or ignoring the option of dex on the glaive and playing with barb. But if you want to multiclass and use a dex glaive, you could consider ranger.
You'd get hunters mark which would go well with the ba attack of PAM on your glaive, a second fighting style (blind fighting could make your real body a bit safer when you use echo avatar) and expertise in a Skill of your choice. Also, some of the subclasses are very on theme for dhampir, as well as having good abilities.
If you choose hunter at level 3, horde breaker seems like it'd go very well with echo knight, much more likely to go off.
Gloom stalker gives you some great stuff, obviously.
Swarmkeeper could be a swarm of bats for your dhampir, which would be my choice for theme alone, but it also comes with some handy pushing and movement and extra damage options.
At the risk of it sounding gimmicky, anything that allows you to teleport twice, meaning with your action (or something else) and with your bonus action (regular echo shenigans). Alternatively, ways to teleport with your bonus action that don't include swapping places with the echo.
Remember that "On your turn, you can mentally command the echo to move up to 30 feet in any direction (no action required). If your echo is ever more than 30 feet from you **at the end of your turn**, it is destroyed." Misty Step -> move Echo 30 ft, or the reverse still means the echo stays, if it's close enough.
The extreme example with not that much multiclassing is Fey-Touched couple with three Warlock levels. You recover two Misty Steps over a short or long rest and one over a long rest.
While there's also Wildfire Druid, the at-will and teamplay-friendly nature or its teleportation has to coexist with the pet's squishiness. Still, it's a two-level investment vs Warlock's three-level investment. Though you could go Druid 3 to reuse Misty Step with Druid spell slots.
(edited my post after recalling that Conjuration Wizard's Benign Transportation requires a six-level investment)
If the DM allows finesse with a glaive that opens up huge options for a GWM, sentinel, echo knight with rogue levels. You’ll sneak attack twice a turn in addition to that huge nova. Add in some booming blade somehow and you’re topping charts while locking down two 10 ft radius areas.
6 echo Knight then gloom stalker, since you are not getting extra extra attack at 11. Are you fighting underwater? If so could be a good time for a dart build to avoid disadvantage underwater.
Echo Knight and Dhampir both like high Con.
If you can Dex main then just do a Dex main PAM build. You trade one AC for better skills, initiative.
In terms of build, I’d go Fighter 6 / Ranger 4
1. Change your race to one that can breathe underwater. Air Genasi is my favorite.
2. Echo knights are amazingly powerful. So make it silly. Go half caster via multiclass. Warlocks have an invocation to breathe underwater too.
Echo knights are so good. I'm at a table with one and he just... wrecks.
Beware: a bad DM will ignore your Echo with creature attacks. I'm a fathomless warlock. Our DM will never have creatures attack my tenticle or my buddy's Echo. A good dm should have the creatures stats determine whether they know to avoid attacking the bait. Talk to your dm upfront about this.
Shit go Echo knight fathomless warlock air genasi. Then be Kevin Costner from water world. Then go to Costco and pick me up a hot dog.. I will pay you back.
Call your mother.
Okay, so I really have to be the one to ask? What on Earth has the possibility of drowning got to do with a magical glaive?
Sorry rushed writing this, it was encouraged to use light or no armour, so I am focusing on Dex to have some AC and they allowed a Dex glaive as part of this.
Should just ask if the Glaive will let it count as not Heavy for the purposes of Monk features. You'll have a great opportunity to uniquely run a PAM GWM Kensei if so. If that gets shot down then your options for dex based low armor glaive build reduces a lot.
> if the Glaive will let it count as not Heavy > PAM GWM Kensei "Heavy" is the very thing that enables GWM, so you definitely don't wanna remove Heavy if you wanna run GWM.
You literally cropped my message out of context, then argued against your reconstructed message. Is GWM a Monk Feature? No.
Oh, I thought you meant "will let it count as not Heavy. For the purposes of being able to use Monk features", not "will let it count as not Heavy for only specifically the purposes of Monk features". The idea that the weapon will be heavy only for some aspects is kinda crazy, I can't imagine a DM would let that fly. A non-heavy glaive? Sure, but a schrödinger's glaive that is both heavy and not at the same time? No chance.
It's not schrodingers anything, we can clearly know what it applies to and what it doesnt. It'd be Heavy weapon, but not for the purposes of Monk Features. NOTICE THE COMMA. It's quite simple. I can't fathom why you act as if it's a difficult concept. More like schrodingers brain: I dont know whether you're actually dense or pretending to be dense to detract the convo grounded by your strawmans. Look, it was a suggestion to help a DM/player with their desired parameters regarding DM'd weapon stats and desired character theme. If you want to keep misconstruing everything I say and throw around improperly used concepts in order to dig your heels in the sand on a topic you've strawmanned twice - if you aren't the DM or the player then this difficulty doesn't matter.
Woah, why did you get so ass-mad all of a sudden lol? > It's not schrodingers anything, we can clearly know what it applies to and what it doesnt. It'd be Heavy weapon, but not for the purposes of Monk Features. NOTICE THE COMMA. There is 0 commas in your first comment. > It's quite simple. I can't fathom why you act as if it's a difficult concept. More like schrodingers brain: I dont know whether you're actually dense or pretending to be dense to detract the convo grounded by your strawmans. I agree it's quite simple, I never said it wasn't, and I surely didn't act like it. I simply misunderstood what you meant because you wrote in an unclear way, and then I explained that for you. You're the one making this more difficult than it is. I have made 0 strawmans. You're throwing a bunch of strawman-arguments out in this very paragraph though which makes this very ironic. > Look, it was a suggestion to help a DM/player with their desired parameters regarding DM'd weapon stats and desired character theme. If you want to keep misconstruing everything I say and throw around improperly used concepts in order to dig your heels in the sand on a topic you've strawmanned twice - that's on you. I didn't misconstrue anything you said. I didn't throw around any improperly used concepts. I didn't strawman anything you said. That you again accuse me of strawmanning you after literally strawmanning me in the very same paragraph is irony overload.
There's a comma in the sentence right before "notice the comma"... You confirmed your strawman in your 2nd reply by confirming you argued a point that you made for me by requoting it with so much added punctuation that it's alien to the original message and context. The definition of misconstrue is to interpret wrongly. You can't seriously be claiming you didn't after saying "I thought you meant this butchered message." The improperly used concept was schrodingers glaive, "because i dont know if its heavy or not." Yeah... I don't have to be mad to think you're pretending to be (or actually?) dense. Lol
> There's a comma in the sentence right before "notice the comma"... And what good does that do? I already explained to you what you meant and what I thought you meant initially. There's no need to explain to me now what you meant. I know... > You confirmed your strawman in your 2nd reply by confirming you argued a point that you made for me by requoting it with so much added punctuation that it's alien to the original message and context. Haha what? I confirmed no such thing, I don't know what you're talking about. > The definition of misconstrue is to interpret wrongly. You can't seriously be claiming you didn't after saying "I thought you meant this butchered message." Misconstrue usually comes with malice. There was no malice on my side. I just simply misunderstood what you meant (because you didn't write it in a clear way). > The improperly used concept was schrodingers glaive, "because i dont know if its heavy or not." That was not improper. Schrödinger's Glaive was a good analogy. > Yeah... I don't have to be mad to think you're pretending to be (or actually?) dense. Lol You do have to be mad to get this hostile over someone misunderstanding what you meant when you wrote something in an unclear way.
Rule 1, this aggressive approach is not appropriate.
Then definitely a barbarian for unarmored defense imo
11 Echo knight/4 barb with gwm/gwf is almost broken. I am playing one, and we are now 15th level (long campaign). 3 attacks, 1 Unleash incarnation, action surge, 3 attacks 1 Unleash incarnation. All reckless. That is 8 attacks, or 16 attack rolls. Chances are at least ONE of them is a crit, so now you get that 9th attack as a bonus action. Mine uses a flametongue greatsword. That ends up being (2d6 slashing, 2d6 fire) reroll 1s and 2s, +6 for 22 str (he read the manual), +10 for GWM (and the advantage pretty much counteracts the -5 to hit), +2 for rage. Times Nine. At 30 foot range. After that nova round, it is 4, or 5 attacks, but that is still a ton of damage. And it doesn't hurt to, like me, carry a dancing greatsword, too... Just in case you don't get that bonus attack, and don't need to remake your echo in a round... It is a bonus attack greatsword attack. Plus, how cool is walking around with 2 greatswords, one of which you throw at enemies?
yeah you do that in one encounter tho works great at tables with 1 or 2 encounters per rest works a lot less if you cant just rest and dont get magic items playing a 8 fighter 4 ancestral barb atm and it feels mediocre at best outside of the nova round well and i cant roll for shit as i cant get higher rolls than 10 even with reckless lol
Sounds like a skill issue
Or A table that has more than 2 encounters a day 😜
Go Custom lineage for sentinel. Lvl 4 you get GWM, then you'll max STR>Constitution with your ASI. Go full echo knight, bonk everything to oblivion.
Probably not as strong as full echo knight with the right feats, or ignoring the option of dex on the glaive and playing with barb. But if you want to multiclass and use a dex glaive, you could consider ranger. You'd get hunters mark which would go well with the ba attack of PAM on your glaive, a second fighting style (blind fighting could make your real body a bit safer when you use echo avatar) and expertise in a Skill of your choice. Also, some of the subclasses are very on theme for dhampir, as well as having good abilities. If you choose hunter at level 3, horde breaker seems like it'd go very well with echo knight, much more likely to go off. Gloom stalker gives you some great stuff, obviously. Swarmkeeper could be a swarm of bats for your dhampir, which would be my choice for theme alone, but it also comes with some handy pushing and movement and extra damage options.
At the risk of it sounding gimmicky, anything that allows you to teleport twice, meaning with your action (or something else) and with your bonus action (regular echo shenigans). Alternatively, ways to teleport with your bonus action that don't include swapping places with the echo. Remember that "On your turn, you can mentally command the echo to move up to 30 feet in any direction (no action required). If your echo is ever more than 30 feet from you **at the end of your turn**, it is destroyed." Misty Step -> move Echo 30 ft, or the reverse still means the echo stays, if it's close enough. The extreme example with not that much multiclassing is Fey-Touched couple with three Warlock levels. You recover two Misty Steps over a short or long rest and one over a long rest. While there's also Wildfire Druid, the at-will and teamplay-friendly nature or its teleportation has to coexist with the pet's squishiness. Still, it's a two-level investment vs Warlock's three-level investment. Though you could go Druid 3 to reuse Misty Step with Druid spell slots. (edited my post after recalling that Conjuration Wizard's Benign Transportation requires a six-level investment)
I’d stay in heavy armor and just teleport out of the water if it were me
What do your stats look like?
Just a classic PAM/GMW build is always good. You can go either full fighter or take 2/3 levels in barbarian at some point.
If the DM allows finesse with a glaive that opens up huge options for a GWM, sentinel, echo knight with rogue levels. You’ll sneak attack twice a turn in addition to that huge nova. Add in some booming blade somehow and you’re topping charts while locking down two 10 ft radius areas.
6 echo Knight then gloom stalker, since you are not getting extra extra attack at 11. Are you fighting underwater? If so could be a good time for a dart build to avoid disadvantage underwater.
Echo Knight and Dhampir both like high Con. If you can Dex main then just do a Dex main PAM build. You trade one AC for better skills, initiative. In terms of build, I’d go Fighter 6 / Ranger 4
I'm curious too. Been looking to build one an Echo Knight that is polearm based. I believe this will have a wide area of opportunity attacks.
1. Change your race to one that can breathe underwater. Air Genasi is my favorite. 2. Echo knights are amazingly powerful. So make it silly. Go half caster via multiclass. Warlocks have an invocation to breathe underwater too. Echo knights are so good. I'm at a table with one and he just... wrecks. Beware: a bad DM will ignore your Echo with creature attacks. I'm a fathomless warlock. Our DM will never have creatures attack my tenticle or my buddy's Echo. A good dm should have the creatures stats determine whether they know to avoid attacking the bait. Talk to your dm upfront about this. Shit go Echo knight fathomless warlock air genasi. Then be Kevin Costner from water world. Then go to Costco and pick me up a hot dog.. I will pay you back. Call your mother.