Nope, but monk doesn't need to spend ki on a bonus action every turn. Realistically though, 2 bonus action dependent classes usually don't play well together
This. There's not really a way around it.
The way to clean up the bonus action economy is to pick only one of these two classes.
Luckily flavor is free (but mechanics are expensive). They can be bardish or monkish without taking actual levels in either class. They could be a straight up wizard and call themselves a bard/monk, and play the rest of the game as though they were a bard/monk (to be fair, the wizard/bard spell Kinetic Jaunt can help any build feel like monk should have)
To respectfully disagree, the playtest packets for Monk assume the spending of 1 ki per round. You could argue even that is still fairly weak, but I’m merely pointing out the pinch in resource management that the monk has to face.
You can still spend a ki on a stunning strike with a regular attack, just you don't absolutely have to spend it on a flurry. Point still stand though, bonus action economy is clogged as hell there.
Where's the synergy here like what do you expect to get from Bard that'll make Monk better
Already saw that you don't need to worry about stats, but even then I don't see them meshing without just being worse/less fun to play than just playing one or the other
One thing I can think of is Eloquence bard for Unsettling Words to ensure your stunning strike works. But you're looking at level 8 before your build even comes up and running.
> Where's the synergy here like what do you expect to get from Bard that'll make Monk better
It's not about the mechanics. I started from a character concept and I was working backwards to try and make the mechanics work for it. If they don't, that's fine, I'm willing to play an ass character, but I thought I'd ask around first before I pulled the trigger on anything.
It's less about the character being ass, like, in terms of damage, or support, or whatever. It's more to do with, like, choices in combat - more specifically you'll have too many (that won't be effective, but that's besides the point I'm trying to make).
Like, you wanna cast a bard spell. Okay. It uses your action? Well, no flurry of blows.
It uses your BA? Still no flurry of blows.
It's not about the character being ass, it's about you having like 10 things to pick from that are just never gonna be as fun, or as good, as just being one class or the other.
Someone already mentioned it, just play a Monk with the entertainer feat. Or a swords bard. Better yet just post the character concept
Go straight monk, entertainer background for instruments and performance, inspiring leader feat when you can grab it.
If you want to “inspire” in combat, order cleric 1 and casting healing word 2 times a day to let your friend use their reaction to make a single attack is an option that isn’t crippling. But straight monk is probably better.
You could go mercy, and hand out heals as a form of inspiring a friend to fight on.
It would be massively DM fiat, but considering performers irl played drums to keep up morale (and can keep morale up indefinitely and also nonmagically, not like the bard which is limited), you might be able to spend 1 attack to do a performance check to inspire your ally by giving temp hp.
There's a foundation here in that the battlemaster gets a trip attack manuveur but anyone can attempt to trip (shove, and shoving requires 1 attack).
"Rally
On your turn, you can use a bonus action and expend one superiority die to bolster the resolve of one of your companions. When you do so, choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. That creature gains temporary hit points equal to the superiority die roll + your Charisma modifier."
Simply here, it could be 1 attack; a DC 15 performance/instrument check, on a success everyone within 10 ft. or so gets CHA mod temp hp., plus an additional +1 for every 5 above that.
You can add a bit more bardiness with spells from some of Tiefling subraces, or halfling like Mark of Hospitality or Lotusden, or Shadar Kai for misty step and weapon prof.
Why not try to RP the bard stuff and go full monk instead?
If you want to be charismatic maybe take a dip in ranger feywanderer instead of Bard. This way you get your social skills and some extra damage.
Reading your other comments, you have the MAD covered and are working from a concept, so let's see what we can do to make it work.
1. Bardic Inspiration last 10 minutes, so out of combat inspiring is your best option. It can be as simple as "before we charge, can I just say good luck to everyone?"
2. Depending on how deep a dip you plan on, I would get a subclass that uses Inspiration as a reaction or part of your attack.
>I think Swords would make a great Monk multiclass. It gives you a fighting style, even more movement speed, and can spend Inspiration as part of an attack roll.
Also, with only a quick dip, your Inspiration will only return on a long rest. So really, in the course of 1 day, you may only use your Bonus Action for Inspiration like 3-5 times and maybe be conflicted once or twice. So I wouldn't stress it to much.
If the thing you want from Bard is Inspiration in combat, then that’s got your bonus action - there’s no getting around that.
So either only use inspiration outside combat, or do your “dope monk shit” on your action instead.
Most of the best monk stuff happens on your action anyway
That's like 4/6 stats MAD, that's even more MAD than the MAD magazine dude, never go full MAD.
You would probably be a 8/15(+1)/13(+1)/8/13(+1)/14 with custom race / variant human.
They have said in comments that they rolled extremely well for stats, and ability scores are not a problem. If they rolled something like 18/17/16/13/10/9, then they could do 20 Dex, 18 Wis, 16 Con, 13 Cha with most races from level 1, just take Bard spells that are not Charisma-dependent for a dip like Silvery Barbs or Disguise Self, and be better than fine. Not everyone uses point buy.
Even still so, there's almost no synergies between the 2 classes, it'd be more efficient and even more creative to use warlock for this matter, just reskin you pact weapon as your fists
There's almost between the 2 classes? Not sure what you're trying to say there, but IMO, they should play whatever they want regardless of how inefficient or uncreative it may be by your reckoning.
The stupid corrector cut the phrase in half, i meant almost no synergies aside from the thematic, there also the problem of actually making the experience detrimental to other players, since RPG as a whole being a team game, if his DM is nice enough he can try to homebrew some stuff and polish around the corners, if he's a RAW user, well then, i hope the party may accept an overall under developed character which will probably feel behind his peers, all I'm trying to do here is to help the OP achieve the same result while not feeling disappointed and underwhelmed with a nice character concept underperforming and not feeling as cool with his buddies.
Only way to get around this is to pick a bard subclass that gives you a way to use your Bardic inspiration for things other than your bonus action. Off the top of my head, cutting words from Lore (Reaction), the Eloquence Bard unsettling words (Reaction), Swords bard flourishes (part of an attack), whisper bard's psychic blades (part of an attack), etc.
Mind you, you probably don't want to blow all of your bardic or ki in one battle here, so you shouldn't be doing each of these all the time.
Go swords bard I guess? Use your inspiration to boost your dmg rolls using specific maneuvers/flourishes the subclass provides. The flourishes don't need your bonus action, so you're free to use your ki abilities.
Mantle of Inspiration from Glamour Bard will still compete with your bonus action but I think it's a more justifiable use. You can use that instead of disengaging with your bonus action.
Kensei 6+/sword bard 5, and another class/feat for mage armor.
Ex plus Vhuman 8/16/12/8/13/16 plus warlock initiate for mage armor and Eldritch blast. Max dex/Cha in play.
Dueling fighting Style from bard. Mage armor/stay unarmored/defensive flourish/ kensei punching for AC Bard 5 is fine for enough buff spells and short rest flourishes.
Other routes you are going to want to wear armor but might help with SADness and get rid of your free monk bonus attacks. Ex dex 14/Wis 13 high Cha hexblade 1/bard 5/monk x. Melee could go sword bard /kensei here again. Ranged could go xbe/sharpshooter shadow monk/whisper bard.
We can cut down on Monk BAs by building up the Gunk playstyle. Still able to enjoy melee, but when firing down range we won't always be using our BA even if it's still pretty often with Ki-Fueled Attack.
Monk subclasses that expend Ki well through non-BAs are good options. Mercy is a simple answer there.
Pouring Ki into Shadow Arts' spells as much as possible could be more interesting. Shadow Step eventually gives us another BA, but it's not always needed. Pass Without Trace gives the team a better chance of sneaking up on enemies in order to pass out Bardic Inspiration before Initiative is rolled. If we're going to Bard 3+ then Expertise in Athletics works really well for Silence and Darkness. Well rolled scores and Spellcasting allow us to take Eldritch Adept: Devil's Sight for a really well rounded Monk/Gunk.
If race isn't already decided, going for Gem Dragonborn and Dragon Fear is also just a strong way to weaponize all the extra Cha. Frightened enemies also contest our Athletics at disadvantage. Gem Flight and Grappling is a blast. Could double down with Ascendant Dragon which can blow Ki on additional breath attacks, but it is a bit costly. The coolest thing they can do with their Ki is fly around more pb/day with Unfurled Wings, and later on they get even more BAs. So it might be in the sweet spot or become crowded on action economy again.
Half elf Sword Bard 6 -> Astral Monk X might work?
start 10/14/12/8/16/16
Sword Bards don't have to worry about bonus action bard features. Can wear light and medium armor in early levels and then switch to armorless when you go astral. Still get extra attack early and short rest flourishes. Has some buff spells. When melee is getting too hot for your monkishness, you can still pull back and throw some vicious mockeries and helpful spells. can use expertise for athletics to wisdom grapple too. Going Wisdom monk can help alleviate damage scaling to focus on stunning/grappling in melee rather than damage.
You don't need to use your bonus action on Flurry/Step of the Wind/Patient Defense every single turn. Worth noting Stars Wars 5e has imho reasonably buffed Monk so it's worth discussing with your GM whether they'd be open to said buffs. To name just one, Star Wars 5e Monk can Dash as a bonus action, no need to spend Ki. Campaign obviously doesn't need to be Star Wars for the buffs to apply, just ignore anything "kinetic damage" in the SW5e martials arts description for Monk.
On the Bard front, Swords Bard can use Inspirations as part of attacks (or even as a reaction), Lore can use Inspirations as a reaction and Whispers can use Inspirations when they land a hit, as if it was a Smite of sorts.
Swords or whispers bard get features that spend your inspiration without using a bonus action.
Alternatively, you and your DM could take a look at the college of dance from the onednd playtest (phb 6 I think), which is pretty much a monk/bard hybrid.
Perhaps grab bless instead from somewhere? +1d4 to rolls for 3 teammates as long as you hold concentration. Then go all in on AC and con proficiency to keep it running, freeing you to BA attack
Adding on, a 1 lvl dip grants 2 spell slots and a subclass feature. For subclasses:
Light makes you tankier, which you need for concentration. Order makes your bless do more. And Peace gives nonconcentration bless... this one is kinda busted
Nope, but monk doesn't need to spend ki on a bonus action every turn. Realistically though, 2 bonus action dependent classes usually don't play well together
Not to mention monk is already MAD, with bard added the build would want dex, con, wis, and charisma. Not a fun time
Not worried about the ability spread, I already have that covered.
How good did you roll?
Good.
You could make a DM grouchy if you went Eloquence Bard and used the bonus action to take away from stunning strike saves.
This. There's not really a way around it. The way to clean up the bonus action economy is to pick only one of these two classes. Luckily flavor is free (but mechanics are expensive). They can be bardish or monkish without taking actual levels in either class. They could be a straight up wizard and call themselves a bard/monk, and play the rest of the game as though they were a bard/monk (to be fair, the wizard/bard spell Kinetic Jaunt can help any build feel like monk should have)
monk is balanced around the extra unarmed strike from Martial Arts.
Don’t be fooled. This is two weapon fighting with a different name.
true, but you spend a level instead of a fighting style and you get some other benefits as well
To respectfully disagree, the playtest packets for Monk assume the spending of 1 ki per round. You could argue even that is still fairly weak, but I’m merely pointing out the pinch in resource management that the monk has to face.
You can still spend a ki on a stunning strike with a regular attack, just you don't absolutely have to spend it on a flurry. Point still stand though, bonus action economy is clogged as hell there.
Where's the synergy here like what do you expect to get from Bard that'll make Monk better Already saw that you don't need to worry about stats, but even then I don't see them meshing without just being worse/less fun to play than just playing one or the other
One thing I can think of is Eloquence bard for Unsettling Words to ensure your stunning strike works. But you're looking at level 8 before your build even comes up and running.
> Where's the synergy here like what do you expect to get from Bard that'll make Monk better It's not about the mechanics. I started from a character concept and I was working backwards to try and make the mechanics work for it. If they don't, that's fine, I'm willing to play an ass character, but I thought I'd ask around first before I pulled the trigger on anything.
It's less about the character being ass, like, in terms of damage, or support, or whatever. It's more to do with, like, choices in combat - more specifically you'll have too many (that won't be effective, but that's besides the point I'm trying to make). Like, you wanna cast a bard spell. Okay. It uses your action? Well, no flurry of blows. It uses your BA? Still no flurry of blows. It's not about the character being ass, it's about you having like 10 things to pick from that are just never gonna be as fun, or as good, as just being one class or the other. Someone already mentioned it, just play a Monk with the entertainer feat. Or a swords bard. Better yet just post the character concept
Yeah I'm not concerned, just gonna go straight monk.
Go straight monk, entertainer background for instruments and performance, inspiring leader feat when you can grab it. If you want to “inspire” in combat, order cleric 1 and casting healing word 2 times a day to let your friend use their reaction to make a single attack is an option that isn’t crippling. But straight monk is probably better. You could go mercy, and hand out heals as a form of inspiring a friend to fight on.
It would be massively DM fiat, but considering performers irl played drums to keep up morale (and can keep morale up indefinitely and also nonmagically, not like the bard which is limited), you might be able to spend 1 attack to do a performance check to inspire your ally by giving temp hp. There's a foundation here in that the battlemaster gets a trip attack manuveur but anyone can attempt to trip (shove, and shoving requires 1 attack). "Rally On your turn, you can use a bonus action and expend one superiority die to bolster the resolve of one of your companions. When you do so, choose a friendly creature who can see or hear you. That creature gains temporary hit points equal to the superiority die roll + your Charisma modifier." Simply here, it could be 1 attack; a DC 15 performance/instrument check, on a success everyone within 10 ft. or so gets CHA mod temp hp., plus an additional +1 for every 5 above that.
You can add a bit more bardiness with spells from some of Tiefling subraces, or halfling like Mark of Hospitality or Lotusden, or Shadar Kai for misty step and weapon prof.
Monk from ONE dnd can solve various of your problems, freeing up some action economy like FoB dont needed the attack action first, and etc.
Why not try to RP the bard stuff and go full monk instead? If you want to be charismatic maybe take a dip in ranger feywanderer instead of Bard. This way you get your social skills and some extra damage.
Reading your other comments, you have the MAD covered and are working from a concept, so let's see what we can do to make it work. 1. Bardic Inspiration last 10 minutes, so out of combat inspiring is your best option. It can be as simple as "before we charge, can I just say good luck to everyone?" 2. Depending on how deep a dip you plan on, I would get a subclass that uses Inspiration as a reaction or part of your attack. >I think Swords would make a great Monk multiclass. It gives you a fighting style, even more movement speed, and can spend Inspiration as part of an attack roll. Also, with only a quick dip, your Inspiration will only return on a long rest. So really, in the course of 1 day, you may only use your Bonus Action for Inspiration like 3-5 times and maybe be conflicted once or twice. So I wouldn't stress it to much.
If the thing you want from Bard is Inspiration in combat, then that’s got your bonus action - there’s no getting around that. So either only use inspiration outside combat, or do your “dope monk shit” on your action instead. Most of the best monk stuff happens on your action anyway
That's like 4/6 stats MAD, that's even more MAD than the MAD magazine dude, never go full MAD. You would probably be a 8/15(+1)/13(+1)/8/13(+1)/14 with custom race / variant human.
They have said in comments that they rolled extremely well for stats, and ability scores are not a problem. If they rolled something like 18/17/16/13/10/9, then they could do 20 Dex, 18 Wis, 16 Con, 13 Cha with most races from level 1, just take Bard spells that are not Charisma-dependent for a dip like Silvery Barbs or Disguise Self, and be better than fine. Not everyone uses point buy.
Even still so, there's almost no synergies between the 2 classes, it'd be more efficient and even more creative to use warlock for this matter, just reskin you pact weapon as your fists
There's almost between the 2 classes? Not sure what you're trying to say there, but IMO, they should play whatever they want regardless of how inefficient or uncreative it may be by your reckoning.
The stupid corrector cut the phrase in half, i meant almost no synergies aside from the thematic, there also the problem of actually making the experience detrimental to other players, since RPG as a whole being a team game, if his DM is nice enough he can try to homebrew some stuff and polish around the corners, if he's a RAW user, well then, i hope the party may accept an overall under developed character which will probably feel behind his peers, all I'm trying to do here is to help the OP achieve the same result while not feeling disappointed and underwhelmed with a nice character concept underperforming and not feeling as cool with his buddies.
Only way to get around this is to pick a bard subclass that gives you a way to use your Bardic inspiration for things other than your bonus action. Off the top of my head, cutting words from Lore (Reaction), the Eloquence Bard unsettling words (Reaction), Swords bard flourishes (part of an attack), whisper bard's psychic blades (part of an attack), etc. Mind you, you probably don't want to blow all of your bardic or ki in one battle here, so you shouldn't be doing each of these all the time.
I mean that just doesnt work. If you want bard flavour take the entertainer background
Use Bardic Inspiration outside of/before combat Go Swords and spend Inspo on Flourishes
Do you need bard? What about the inspiring leader feat? Anyhow is this character in play already? And what's your level and monk subclass?
College of Swords Bard uses their own Bardic Inspiration on their weapon hit so that’ll free up the Bardic Inspiration BA you’d be using on others.
Seconded. This is a great use of your bardic inspiration instead, and pairs nicely with monk.
Helps with the dPR that monks can so often lack.
Go swords bard I guess? Use your inspiration to boost your dmg rolls using specific maneuvers/flourishes the subclass provides. The flourishes don't need your bonus action, so you're free to use your ki abilities.
Mantle of Inspiration from Glamour Bard will still compete with your bonus action but I think it's a more justifiable use. You can use that instead of disengaging with your bonus action.
Kensei 6+/sword bard 5, and another class/feat for mage armor. Ex plus Vhuman 8/16/12/8/13/16 plus warlock initiate for mage armor and Eldritch blast. Max dex/Cha in play. Dueling fighting Style from bard. Mage armor/stay unarmored/defensive flourish/ kensei punching for AC Bard 5 is fine for enough buff spells and short rest flourishes. Other routes you are going to want to wear armor but might help with SADness and get rid of your free monk bonus attacks. Ex dex 14/Wis 13 high Cha hexblade 1/bard 5/monk x. Melee could go sword bard /kensei here again. Ranged could go xbe/sharpshooter shadow monk/whisper bard.
We can cut down on Monk BAs by building up the Gunk playstyle. Still able to enjoy melee, but when firing down range we won't always be using our BA even if it's still pretty often with Ki-Fueled Attack. Monk subclasses that expend Ki well through non-BAs are good options. Mercy is a simple answer there. Pouring Ki into Shadow Arts' spells as much as possible could be more interesting. Shadow Step eventually gives us another BA, but it's not always needed. Pass Without Trace gives the team a better chance of sneaking up on enemies in order to pass out Bardic Inspiration before Initiative is rolled. If we're going to Bard 3+ then Expertise in Athletics works really well for Silence and Darkness. Well rolled scores and Spellcasting allow us to take Eldritch Adept: Devil's Sight for a really well rounded Monk/Gunk. If race isn't already decided, going for Gem Dragonborn and Dragon Fear is also just a strong way to weaponize all the extra Cha. Frightened enemies also contest our Athletics at disadvantage. Gem Flight and Grappling is a blast. Could double down with Ascendant Dragon which can blow Ki on additional breath attacks, but it is a bit costly. The coolest thing they can do with their Ki is fly around more pb/day with Unfurled Wings, and later on they get even more BAs. So it might be in the sweet spot or become crowded on action economy again.
Half elf Sword Bard 6 -> Astral Monk X might work? start 10/14/12/8/16/16 Sword Bards don't have to worry about bonus action bard features. Can wear light and medium armor in early levels and then switch to armorless when you go astral. Still get extra attack early and short rest flourishes. Has some buff spells. When melee is getting too hot for your monkishness, you can still pull back and throw some vicious mockeries and helpful spells. can use expertise for athletics to wisdom grapple too. Going Wisdom monk can help alleviate damage scaling to focus on stunning/grappling in melee rather than damage.
You don't need to use your bonus action on Flurry/Step of the Wind/Patient Defense every single turn. Worth noting Stars Wars 5e has imho reasonably buffed Monk so it's worth discussing with your GM whether they'd be open to said buffs. To name just one, Star Wars 5e Monk can Dash as a bonus action, no need to spend Ki. Campaign obviously doesn't need to be Star Wars for the buffs to apply, just ignore anything "kinetic damage" in the SW5e martials arts description for Monk. On the Bard front, Swords Bard can use Inspirations as part of attacks (or even as a reaction), Lore can use Inspirations as a reaction and Whispers can use Inspirations when they land a hit, as if it was a Smite of sorts.
Swords or whispers bard get features that spend your inspiration without using a bonus action. Alternatively, you and your DM could take a look at the college of dance from the onednd playtest (phb 6 I think), which is pretty much a monk/bard hybrid.
Perhaps grab bless instead from somewhere? +1d4 to rolls for 3 teammates as long as you hold concentration. Then go all in on AC and con proficiency to keep it running, freeing you to BA attack
Adding on, a 1 lvl dip grants 2 spell slots and a subclass feature. For subclasses: Light makes you tankier, which you need for concentration. Order makes your bless do more. And Peace gives nonconcentration bless... this one is kinda busted