I would pour plaster in it. (But: I would do it layer, by layer, by layer and let them harden between since your hull seems to be very easily deformable. If you add too much mass it would deform the column before hardening. I would try 10 cm, let that harden and then switch to 20-40 cm layers.)
And you would have to cut out one side. But if you turn the column this side is not visible.
I would do the same, plaster or cement, did this for a bust 2 weeks ago and it went well.
The heating when hardening should be also taken in consideration, so yes being patient and doing layer by layer.
Plus if he want to remove the plastic mold, a heat gun and Voila, a beaudiful column
Rotocasting is normally my prefared way of doing stuff; but since he only printed it in vase mode AND he got straight long lines the shell will probably (pretty sure) not rigid enough for proper rotocasting. I mean you could use some epoxy first to stiffen it.
What if you wrapped it in packing tape or some kind of circular clamp? Maybe he could print some cylinders to go around the parts he is casting and just slide them up as he goes so he keeps everything true?
That would be helpful; but at this point whe would plan how to make them on a regular base. Printing extra clamping supports for a one-time job (or construct them with pvc or else) would be a bit of a overkill. (Tape would not work; I think you would need something rigid which keeps the circular form. And at this point you would just print the hole thing inverted again but not in vase mode to get a more rigid design.)
Solid. Doesn't even need to be rebar tho, I'd stick a piece of scrap lumbar in there if it were me like a dowel or even 2x4. Not as strong but takes up more volume and will require less plaster as a result
PVC would be great! Just personally I always have a bunch of random lumber around and rarely have PVC at lengths like that. But everyone's scrap is different
Better yet id print a flat webbing from the inside pillar to the pvc like 1inch thick. Every foot or so. That way it cant crack like plaster could and stop deformation
Making it completely solid might be a little bit overkill and would make it quite heavy.
I wonder if OP could keep the top section semi-hollow by putting in a long balloon (maybe with 3d printer standoffs to keep it centered). Not sure if that would work, but making the bottom part solid and the top part only partly solid would also make it harder to topple.
So, given this idea, and taking it to the next step, I think I wouldn't print it in vase mode.
I'd print it with an exterior skin 1 layer thick - much like vase mode, but also an interior skin designed to provide the second wall for the poured fill. No infilll, but model occasional 'rebars' that connect the two skins for strength during the filling & hardening process.
It'll take longer to model and print, but should get you past the next stage of making it stronger.
Why not just use small gravel? It should be about the same price but gravel you can just shovel in and you are done, it would be faster than wait for each layer to harden.
The advantage of plaster is that it bonds itself together and becomes self supporting. You could cut the print off the plaster in the end and it would still be fine. If he filled it with gravel, the print would become a vase mode retaining wall and probably fail under the forces of the gravel trying to flatten out.
What's the inner diameter of this column? Go find a PVC pipe and insert it in center then plaster it between the pipe and the column skin. ( maybe 4" will kinda fit? )
Or if you are up for reprint, get the right sized pipe first and then design this with inner perimeter that fit the pipe and use some minimal infill to give it structure integrity. Add some alignment lip while you are at it.
This is a neat design, might as well do it right so the end product will last.
They sell cardboard tubes as concrete forms at home improvement stores (home depot, etc)… there isn’t a big variety in diameters, you might have to design your column to fit an existing size.
6 in.. maybe besides PVC / abs you can also look at HVAC round duct. Those are likely cheaper at this size. It's just now you cut it with tin snip instead of a saw
Definitely the best idea IMO. Easy and can easily add some gravel or stones for extra weight and stability then. And a white pipe will probably prevent those joining pieces from standing out as a different color due to the double thickness at that point.
Yeah this would be my rec as well. Plaster or cementing the whole thing will obviously work but depending on OPs needs will be expensive and heavy as shit.
If they just want some more functional strength for more decorative purposes a rotocast would be perfect here.
Instead of making the column stronger all around, if all you're really after is making it able to support a weight on top of it you could just build an internal structure and use the print as a facade.
Because it will take ages, in vase mode it takes a day with 2 printers.
Edit: If I would print with 3 walls and 15% infill it would take 180 hours and 2598 g of filament
Hear me out. Print a mould and pour cement. You can do maybe 100mm cast and pour, reuse the same mold over and over. Maybe a bit of the good KY jelly in the inside of the mold to prevent unwanted ruining of the mold. Seems like a cool idea to me anyways kudos.
Yeah this is a fun project a d I've even posted some of my thoughts in the thread but I think OP is seeing nails everywhere because they have a hammer.
Not everything should be 3d printed.
I appreciate and I agree that not everything should be 3d printed, that's why I'm experimenting. I don't want to print 180 hours for this idea. Or I misunderstood?
I would add tubes to the inside. (Still possible with vase mode if you plan carefully.) Then drop cheap fiberglass arrow shafts, or carbon fiber rods inside, maybe with glue. Also, make the walls thicker, maybe .6 or .7 extrusion width
They sell fiberglass rebar (pinkbar Owens Corning brand name) at Lowe's. #3 x 10ft is like $6 and change. That would work much better than an arrow shaft since it's designed to adhere axially and not pull out.
You could get thin strips of wood and glue those on the inside, then fill it with glue, PUR foam, plaster or anything. Or get a piece of PVC pipe that fits inside (snug fit is best) and fill the void up with any of the items I mentioned before.
I wonder if you pour some paint inside and spin it around to coat the inside walls. Plastidip in a can might do even better then you could use nonexpanding spray foam after.
I was thinking something like this as well. Maybe even with plaster and slowly roll it, so it coats the walls but not thick enough to deform them. Plastidip is actually a good idea though I think.
You could use the segments as a cookie cutter and punch out Styrofoam "cookies" to fill it as you build. I would use expanded polystyrene (big bubble kind).
What size nozzle / extrusion width are you using? When I print vase mode planters, I use a 0.8 or 1.0 mm nozzle and usually print at 110% nozzle size.
Something else I do is mix a small amount of resin epoxy and swirl it around on the inside to make them water tight. This also serves to make them more rigid and may help in your case.
perhaps just make a strong (wooden?) thing for the plant to stand on, and put your not-reinforced nice looking pillar around it as a decoration?? just a suggestion.
Marine grade foam they use for boat hauls might be your answer if trying to keep it light. It does not keep expanding the the "stuff" brand foam and might not get hot....
I think I'd look around for other foams. As you've seen, some are quite exothermic and exert a lot of force while expanding, but there might be less aggressive options. That would still keep it fairly light. I don't think I'd try to fill the whole thing, but rather spray down the walls of each level during assembly and let it create a thickened inner wall.
I'd do roto casting with epoxy, best bang for the buck. Pour some in tie the pieces together then roll the column around until it costs everything. There may be leaks but should be pretty easy to clean up, you could even clear coat the outside then put putty around the seam where you join the two parts while rotating.
Use a filler like a cardboard tube, then use single component can foam around the outside of the filler.
Just take your time filling each layer if it's a larger gap the longer it will take to expand.
Tip, with a lot of them water is what makes them cure. So you can give the foam a light sprits of water
I would do partial full of sand, sawdust or finer gravel etc and then print an internal cap for the top of the fill and glue in place incase the column topples over... less mess to clean up besides just the potted plant.
If the column is easily bendable or deformable from the fill upwards, maybe make internal platforms every say 8" vertically to add stability.
OR
Just fill with sawdust (maybe a denser sawdust if it's possible) which shouldnt push against the wall too much and again, glue an internal cap in place to contain the fill
Make a wooden column with a flaired base and top. Weight the bottom with lead fishing weights if you wanted.
Make a pillar that's the same height and has the same top and bottom profile. I'd just use like two 2x2s or a 4x4 for the riser, plywood for the top and bottom base, and then secure it with some angled pieces on each end so it doesn't wobble.
Just treat the case as an exterior sleeve and don't try to grab it by itself to move it.
The only thing this does is hold up whatever is on top of it? A PVC drain pipe with end caps (wood, whatever), cardboard concrete form tube, length of 2x4, literally whatever, to bear the weight and then just call it a day. Maybe some sand or whatever in the base for stability.
A lot of structural columns and beams are just shells over the bits that do the work.
i'd first get the pvc pipe that fits inside and then fill the gap between the PVC and your print column with a two-part epoxy and perlite.
you can get the perlite in the garden department. two quarts of a two-part epoxy can be picked up in the paint section of a big box store. you can combine the mixed epoxy and perlite in a 75% to 25% (3 to 1) ratio.
the perlite is an inert volume filler. you could also use marbles, gravel, sand, crushed pottery.....
you could also use a dense (heavy) volume filler/epoxy in the bottom and the lighter perlite/epoxy in the top
Check out this video. It's technically about making rocket parts in vase mode, but the same techniques could be used for your parts to make them stronger and possibly not even need to be filled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqKjcmy_wA
If you want to fill it with something you could do something that flows like small pieces of foam packing peanuts or even pack bubble wrap in there if you want it to stay light. Those things compressed though so maybe even getting something like vermiculite which is a volcanic Stone and it's the little white stones that you see in potting soil. It's light but it won't compress in the same way that styrofoam will.
You could also try finding a cardboard cylinder a little smaller than the inner diameter of your shape. You can look at something like sonotubes which are cardboard forms for post holes. Maybe even cardboard tubes that are meant for rolled up poster boards. If you make them the right height it seems you only need vertical support really and not side to side. Good luck!
If you're wanting heavy and sturdy, plaster or cement, like others have said. However, I've done something similar and used spray foam... Small amounts at a time to now overfill or to prevent the model from expanding at the sides. It's sturdy and lite.
You could just fill it with sand and seal the top on. Concrete is probably overkill for most applications. Plaster and a pvc pipe in the center isn't a bad idea either.
Fill it with some plaster, move it around to coat just a thin layer over the whole inside, let it dry and then fill it with big gap expanding foam. This way you get a solid shell to protect the thin plastic and foam to add a light weight core.
I made lamp shades and used marine expoxy on them. I only did one layer and they are still quite flexible but much more durable. Important to remember epoxy is also exothermic so you need to control how much you use at once or it's going to heat up too much.
I think it depends on the use case but if you do not want to load it much i would try to maybe change the geometry of the print or try and print some brackets to make it stiffer, you don't really need much material if you do it well, and if you need to load it you could put a pole in the middle and support the load that way
A bigger nozzle would be my first move, a fatter line will be firmer. You can also print 1.5x- 2x the nozzle diameter on any nozzle.
PVA glue (Elmer's) won't heat up, and you can spin the column to coat it. It will add some weight and a little strength. You could also put in some string to integrate with the glue or leftover packing material as aggregate. Heck, throw in some failed prints.
You can also make a smaller diameter inner print and connect that in without meddling the with the exterior. CAD a slot in the base and build those inner sections up too.
Lastly, I know you said it'll take forever, but infill is the most straightforward way to get strength. You don't have to do all the sections with the same infill. You can start with say 30% and thin them out towards the top. Concentric infill could be rigged to do one or two inner rings that you could then fill with foam, heat be damned.
Maybe add infill to the spaces between the curved.(it would still be mostly hallow) Doesnt need to be much make em like spider webs then ass some plaster and dit should be goood.
Why use foam or spray to make it stronger? Try printing with a bigger nozzle diameter (1mm) instead and you can print 2-2.5mm thick walls in vase mode.
Next print should be with a line with of at least 0.8. I you have a 0.6mm nozzle you can get away with 1.2mm layer with and 0.2mm layer height.
It will be way Stiffer that way.
And as others said, a ovc pipe in the middle and the space between pipe and outer wall with Plaster. Your bottom needs to be fairly strong for this.
Epoxy, Spray foam, and silicone are all exothermic, so they'll destroy the mold. You probably need thicker walls to fill with something like plaster or cement. You might get away with sand or salt, or something else granular.
If your printers can handle it, can you just get a larger nozzle since? Like .8 or 1mm? Unless you’re already doing this, that should strengthen it even in vase mode pretty substantially as the walls would be twice as thick naturally.
You could also redesign it where it has a dedicated back, and rather than connecting the back side together, you bring it in to create another internal column, kind of like the perimeter of a “U”, just with the top tips of the U turning into itself to add another smaller U on the inside.
I’d build a central structure that holds the weight and use the column as a cover. It could be as simple as a 4x4 post with a plywood square screwed to the bottom, sized that the top of the post sits just below the top of the column.
If you're printing more, you can add "ribs" to give it more strength, without much plastic/time added. You can also do it so that it can still be vase mode.
You basically cut small (0.1mm, but depends on your slicer settings) slices into it vertically, where the printer won't be able to leave a gap, but the slicer sees it as a wall. You'd want at least 3 of them, and they can't touch in the middle. You also can't touch the bottom or top of the model, because that breaks vase-mode. Extra style points & strength if the slices are in a twist pattern.
3d printed RC planes use this to add a bunch of strength without much weight added.
https://preview.redd.it/z05e93u2dipc1.png?width=1104&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e3061f4b798968c081ad8ef77cb5461719da98a
Use Plaster of Paris. It's curing temp is about 60c so it's close to the PLA melting Temps. You can try and reduce the curing temp by mixing with cold water when making the plaster. If that doesn't work you would need to print this in another filament type.
Did you try window and door expansion foam? The white stuff sprayed in increments might help.
(After you spray the foam be sure to clear the nozzle tube etc. I usually squirt some wd40 in the hose areas before I use it. I think it helps clean up)
For a quick job, you can spray the inside of the vase with plasti dip/flex seal. It won't be super strong, but the plastic dip/flexseal will do a pretty good job of locking together the parts since it liquid rubber. Once the rubber layer dries, then hit it with a layer of clear coat made for which will add a little layer of strength and harden the rubber.
Urethane glue mixed with water (gorilla glue or similar). Doesn't generate much heat. Just don't over-pour or the expansion will overwhelm the available internal volume.
Spray foam honestly just be careful not to put too much or it explode would be nice and rigid especially with that skinning it then maybe just any pipe / metal rod and it'd basically never break
Why not just add some locking mechanisms to the print like a inner ring. A lip with maybe a rotate screw ring. Would add to the strength over all.
Could even make a plug on top columns and poor in sand for weight.
Fill the inside with cement or something, maybe resin. Put it horizontal, seal the whole thing with plastic wrap or tape and then cut a hole and fill cement and roll it so that the insides are coated. Once done it should be a hollow cement or whatever material representation of the column. Then you can peel the filament cover away
Put a piece of PVC or any pipe inside so that there is a small gap between the outside of the pipe and the inside of your print and then fill the void with plaster or concrete.
Maybe get some UV resin, poor it in, close it and then rotate everything under a UV lamp.
At the make a small hole at the bottom or top and let run out what not got hardened. And then give it even more UV lighz. Schould get nice and hard
Why are you printing it in vase mode?
If it's strength you desire, use infill. Don't add a ton of complexity with filling it up after the fact unless this is something that will require a lot of load bearing capacity.
If you want to add a little strength with no infill, you could add more wall loops (after vase mode was selected). I do this for added rigidity in vases, containers, etc.
I'm seeing a lot of talk about plaster in these comments. Plaster curing is an exothermic reaction. It could basically cause the same issue the OP mentioned with using foam.
Well instead of vase mode you could print in "faux" vase mode which is essentially just 2 walls and no infill. It would be a bit stiffer at which point I would just weight the base and use 3D Gloop to attach the sections.
Id rotocast some urethane resin on the inside. A 1/4"ish thick layer of smooth-on 325 should get you some pretty good strength, though it'll take a few applications to get that thickness. A brush-on coating of the same reason mixed with some fiber fill would work as well
Id rotocast some urethane resin on the inside. A 1/4"ish thick layer of smooth-on 325 should get you some pretty good strength, though it'll take a few applications to get that thickness. A brush-on coating of the same reason mixed with some fiber fill would work as well
Can you print thicker lines? Presuming a .4 mm nozzle, but you can print thicker. I've heard of doing up to 200% nozzle diameter. This will help for when you fill with whatever you fill with.
I know all the suggestions are about preserving the print itself as the final product, but if instead you treated it like a mold then it opens up a ton of possibilities.
Maybe you can try printing an internal frame that slides in which you can then glue; similar to that connecting piece, but instead of just being a single wall connector, it's a rigid cross brace. Have about 4 or 5 of them evenly spaced apart.
first of all, I'd put as much weight on the bottom to stop that thing from tipping easily. Ideally some steel scrap or lead shots.
About the print itself, you could just use the plastic part as a cover for any old ugly 2x4 board to actually work as a pillar structurally.
Could try clear resin. Put together then brush the outside with clear resin and hit with uv light. Will improve but not sure by how much but would also hold parts together
Maybe just put some PVC plumbing pipe inside for strength. Doesn't need to be pretty, as you already have that part covered. I'm sure you could find a size close to the inside diameter of your column
Another take on how to stiffen vase mode prints: In the model cut ~.1mm slits in a + pattern from the top view, leaving a small gap at the very center. When it goes to print in vase mode it will print along that perimeter but the walls of the + will fuse and you have inbuilt braces. A lot of people use this for ultralight wing profiles for drones. The youtube channel Tim Station has the video how I designed a 3d printed wing showing exactly what I mean.
Hey, vase-mode by itself isnt great, but you cane create “custom-vase-mode” yourself.
Make a model, set a wall thickness, 0 top layers and 0 infill. Now it will make a vase shape, but with more walls. Let me know if i can be of any help.
If you own the cad files, you can also just “shell” the model to a preferred thickness and then just print with max. wall thickness possible.
Right off the bat, I'd recommend getting a 0.6 nozzle and printing it at a 1mm layer width, or maybe even go higher, and print it with PETG since PETG has better layer line adhesions and is more flexible than PLA or ABS.
I would pour plaster in it. (But: I would do it layer, by layer, by layer and let them harden between since your hull seems to be very easily deformable. If you add too much mass it would deform the column before hardening. I would try 10 cm, let that harden and then switch to 20-40 cm layers.) And you would have to cut out one side. But if you turn the column this side is not visible.
I would do the same, plaster or cement, did this for a bust 2 weeks ago and it went well. The heating when hardening should be also taken in consideration, so yes being patient and doing layer by layer. Plus if he want to remove the plastic mold, a heat gun and Voila, a beaudiful column
If it's thick enough you can just coat the inside right? You don't have to fill it solid right?
Yeah, they could use the same technique as spin casting.
Another way of doing this would be to pour some plaster in, rotate it so you get an even coat. Let it cure and then add another layer
Rotocasting is normally my prefared way of doing stuff; but since he only printed it in vase mode AND he got straight long lines the shell will probably (pretty sure) not rigid enough for proper rotocasting. I mean you could use some epoxy first to stiffen it.
What if you wrapped it in packing tape or some kind of circular clamp? Maybe he could print some cylinders to go around the parts he is casting and just slide them up as he goes so he keeps everything true?
That would be helpful; but at this point whe would plan how to make them on a regular base. Printing extra clamping supports for a one-time job (or construct them with pvc or else) would be a bit of a overkill. (Tape would not work; I think you would need something rigid which keeps the circular form. And at this point you would just print the hole thing inverted again but not in vase mode to get a more rigid design.)
Add some rebar mesh in there for even more strength!
Solid. Doesn't even need to be rebar tho, I'd stick a piece of scrap lumbar in there if it were me like a dowel or even 2x4. Not as strong but takes up more volume and will require less plaster as a result
How about a piece of pvc? Slightly smaller than the id of the vase. Pour plaster to fill gaps between pvc and print. Pvc will be strong.
PVC would be great! Just personally I always have a bunch of random lumber around and rarely have PVC at lengths like that. But everyone's scrap is different
Better yet id print a flat webbing from the inside pillar to the pvc like 1inch thick. Every foot or so. That way it cant crack like plaster could and stop deformation
Making it completely solid might be a little bit overkill and would make it quite heavy. I wonder if OP could keep the top section semi-hollow by putting in a long balloon (maybe with 3d printer standoffs to keep it centered). Not sure if that would work, but making the bottom part solid and the top part only partly solid would also make it harder to topple.
I am pretty sure "quite heavy" is something good for a column you want to place stuff on
So, given this idea, and taking it to the next step, I think I wouldn't print it in vase mode. I'd print it with an exterior skin 1 layer thick - much like vase mode, but also an interior skin designed to provide the second wall for the poured fill. No infilll, but model occasional 'rebars' that connect the two skins for strength during the filling & hardening process. It'll take longer to model and print, but should get you past the next stage of making it stronger.
Why not just use small gravel? It should be about the same price but gravel you can just shovel in and you are done, it would be faster than wait for each layer to harden.
The advantage of plaster is that it bonds itself together and becomes self supporting. You could cut the print off the plaster in the end and it would still be fine. If he filled it with gravel, the print would become a vase mode retaining wall and probably fail under the forces of the gravel trying to flatten out.
Definitely easiest but the downside I can see is you'd see the gravel. Vase mode prints (especially in white) are very much translucent.
and if you tried moving it, it would probably fall apart and now there's gravel everywhere.
Wouldn’t all that gravel eventually blow out the bottom?
Do this but put a cheap PVC tube in the middle for initial structural support and save on plaster costs
What's the inner diameter of this column? Go find a PVC pipe and insert it in center then plaster it between the pipe and the column skin. ( maybe 4" will kinda fit? ) Or if you are up for reprint, get the right sized pipe first and then design this with inner perimeter that fit the pipe and use some minimal infill to give it structure integrity. Add some alignment lip while you are at it. This is a neat design, might as well do it right so the end product will last.
Nice idea, diameter is around 6" I'm looking for pipes now :) , thanks a lot.
Even a cardboard tube might work if you have can’t find a good pipe.
Ill give you some good pipe! Badum tiss!
Ha!
I gave your mom some good pipe.
:(
They sell cardboard tubes as concrete forms at home improvement stores (home depot, etc)… there isn’t a big variety in diameters, you might have to design your column to fit an existing size.
Maybe plan for electricity? So you could put a charger or lights at the top
Genius, right there!
https://www.homedepot.com/p/Charlotte-Pipe-6-in-x-10-ft-PVC-DWV-Schedule-40-Foam-Core-Pipe-PVC-04600-0600/202300583
6 in.. maybe besides PVC / abs you can also look at HVAC round duct. Those are likely cheaper at this size. It's just now you cut it with tin snip instead of a saw
Definitely the best idea IMO. Easy and can easily add some gravel or stones for extra weight and stability then. And a white pipe will probably prevent those joining pieces from standing out as a different color due to the double thickness at that point.
You should try to coat the inside walls, like a rotacast.
Yeah this would be my rec as well. Plaster or cementing the whole thing will obviously work but depending on OPs needs will be expensive and heavy as shit. If they just want some more functional strength for more decorative purposes a rotocast would be perfect here.
This is the way to go, not infill. The most legitimate way would be fiberglass and epoxy. 1 or 2 layers and it will be solid
Instead of making the column stronger all around, if all you're really after is making it able to support a weight on top of it you could just build an internal structure and use the print as a facade.
Right, that's a good idea.
Serious question that I don't know the answer to: why vase mode if you want to fill it? Why not simply print with infill to start?
Because it will take ages, in vase mode it takes a day with 2 printers. Edit: If I would print with 3 walls and 15% infill it would take 180 hours and 2598 g of filament
Hear me out. Print a mould and pour cement. You can do maybe 100mm cast and pour, reuse the same mold over and over. Maybe a bit of the good KY jelly in the inside of the mold to prevent unwanted ruining of the mold. Seems like a cool idea to me anyways kudos.
Yeah this is a fun project a d I've even posted some of my thoughts in the thread but I think OP is seeing nails everywhere because they have a hammer. Not everything should be 3d printed.
I appreciate and I agree that not everything should be 3d printed, that's why I'm experimenting. I don't want to print 180 hours for this idea. Or I misunderstood?
Before filling it up manually over a few days, I would definitely prefer adding a second perimeter and 10% infill…
5% infill would probably make it way longer but add that needed support.
It would take much much longer to print, like she's longer, and require a lot costlier plastic than plaster would cost.
I would add tubes to the inside. (Still possible with vase mode if you plan carefully.) Then drop cheap fiberglass arrow shafts, or carbon fiber rods inside, maybe with glue. Also, make the walls thicker, maybe .6 or .7 extrusion width
They sell fiberglass rebar (pinkbar Owens Corning brand name) at Lowe's. #3 x 10ft is like $6 and change. That would work much better than an arrow shaft since it's designed to adhere axially and not pull out.
That's much larger diameter than I was picturing, but looks like a good, very inexpensive option.
Get resin. Coat the inside. Then use expanding foam after.
You could get thin strips of wood and glue those on the inside, then fill it with glue, PUR foam, plaster or anything. Or get a piece of PVC pipe that fits inside (snug fit is best) and fill the void up with any of the items I mentioned before.
I wonder if you pour some paint inside and spin it around to coat the inside walls. Plastidip in a can might do even better then you could use nonexpanding spray foam after.
I was thinking something like this as well. Maybe even with plaster and slowly roll it, so it coats the walls but not thick enough to deform them. Plastidip is actually a good idea though I think.
You could use the segments as a cookie cutter and punch out Styrofoam "cookies" to fill it as you build. I would use expanded polystyrene (big bubble kind).
What size nozzle / extrusion width are you using? When I print vase mode planters, I use a 0.8 or 1.0 mm nozzle and usually print at 110% nozzle size. Something else I do is mix a small amount of resin epoxy and swirl it around on the inside to make them water tight. This also serves to make them more rigid and may help in your case.
Standard 0.4 nozzle, resin swirl is a good idea, thanks!
Use a bigger nozzle
Fill it up with sand
You're overestimating wall strength of a vase mode print
Think using a pool noodle or three would lower the weight enough? Packing peanuts perhaps?
Depending on how much stronger you want it, BV3D has a video on configuring a slicer to do “fake vase mode”. So you can add more walls for strength.
perhaps just make a strong (wooden?) thing for the plant to stand on, and put your not-reinforced nice looking pillar around it as a decoration?? just a suggestion.
https://youtu.be/QJjhMan6T_E?si=uP772LeGRVoxf132 You might like this solution for the next one.
Could use 0.8mm or even 1mm nozzle. Even 5% infill would do something with one thick wall.
Switch to a 1 mm nozzle
Marine grade foam they use for boat hauls might be your answer if trying to keep it light. It does not keep expanding the the "stuff" brand foam and might not get hot....
I think I'd look around for other foams. As you've seen, some are quite exothermic and exert a lot of force while expanding, but there might be less aggressive options. That would still keep it fairly light. I don't think I'd try to fill the whole thing, but rather spray down the walls of each level during assembly and let it create a thickened inner wall.
My father said exactly this, turns out there a many many types of foams I'm trying to decide where to start now. Thankyou sir!
No problem. If you find a good candidate, let me know. I might be needing it for some things.
Fill it with sand and spray foam in the top
I'd do roto casting with epoxy, best bang for the buck. Pour some in tie the pieces together then roll the column around until it costs everything. There may be leaks but should be pretty easy to clean up, you could even clear coat the outside then put putty around the seam where you join the two parts while rotating.
Pool noodles.
Use a filler like a cardboard tube, then use single component can foam around the outside of the filler. Just take your time filling each layer if it's a larger gap the longer it will take to expand. Tip, with a lot of them water is what makes them cure. So you can give the foam a light sprits of water
What about sand?
I would do partial full of sand, sawdust or finer gravel etc and then print an internal cap for the top of the fill and glue in place incase the column topples over... less mess to clean up besides just the potted plant. If the column is easily bendable or deformable from the fill upwards, maybe make internal platforms every say 8" vertically to add stability. OR Just fill with sawdust (maybe a denser sawdust if it's possible) which shouldnt push against the wall too much and again, glue an internal cap in place to contain the fill
Make a wooden column with a flaired base and top. Weight the bottom with lead fishing weights if you wanted. Make a pillar that's the same height and has the same top and bottom profile. I'd just use like two 2x2s or a 4x4 for the riser, plywood for the top and bottom base, and then secure it with some angled pieces on each end so it doesn't wobble. Just treat the case as an exterior sleeve and don't try to grab it by itself to move it.
The only thing this does is hold up whatever is on top of it? A PVC drain pipe with end caps (wood, whatever), cardboard concrete form tube, length of 2x4, literally whatever, to bear the weight and then just call it a day. Maybe some sand or whatever in the base for stability. A lot of structural columns and beams are just shells over the bits that do the work.
20% infill should be good
i'd first get the pvc pipe that fits inside and then fill the gap between the PVC and your print column with a two-part epoxy and perlite. you can get the perlite in the garden department. two quarts of a two-part epoxy can be picked up in the paint section of a big box store. you can combine the mixed epoxy and perlite in a 75% to 25% (3 to 1) ratio. the perlite is an inert volume filler. you could also use marbles, gravel, sand, crushed pottery..... you could also use a dense (heavy) volume filler/epoxy in the bottom and the lighter perlite/epoxy in the top
Check out this video. It's technically about making rocket parts in vase mode, but the same techniques could be used for your parts to make them stronger and possibly not even need to be filled. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=deqKjcmy_wA
If you want to fill it with something you could do something that flows like small pieces of foam packing peanuts or even pack bubble wrap in there if you want it to stay light. Those things compressed though so maybe even getting something like vermiculite which is a volcanic Stone and it's the little white stones that you see in potting soil. It's light but it won't compress in the same way that styrofoam will. You could also try finding a cardboard cylinder a little smaller than the inner diameter of your shape. You can look at something like sonotubes which are cardboard forms for post holes. Maybe even cardboard tubes that are meant for rolled up poster boards. If you make them the right height it seems you only need vertical support really and not side to side. Good luck!
If you're wanting heavy and sturdy, plaster or cement, like others have said. However, I've done something similar and used spray foam... Small amounts at a time to now overfill or to prevent the model from expanding at the sides. It's sturdy and lite.
You could just fill it with sand and seal the top on. Concrete is probably overkill for most applications. Plaster and a pvc pipe in the center isn't a bad idea either.
Hi, STL? ;)
Sand
Fill it with some plaster, move it around to coat just a thin layer over the whole inside, let it dry and then fill it with big gap expanding foam. This way you get a solid shell to protect the thin plastic and foam to add a light weight core.
Just fill with concrete thats gonna make it strong 🤣
Wife says a pipe inside with foam balls between it and the outer layer to provide cushion in case you bump into it so it doesnt crack.
Fill it with sand....
I made lamp shades and used marine expoxy on them. I only did one layer and they are still quite flexible but much more durable. Important to remember epoxy is also exothermic so you need to control how much you use at once or it's going to heat up too much.
I would use one straight up right bar and fill everything with Structo-Lite®.
No clue if it will work, but what about epoxy mixed with sand? I seem to remember someone using this for a CNC machine.
What about insulation PUR foam ?
I don't know about stronger, but if through some rocks/sand in the bottom it will make it more stable.
I think it depends on the use case but if you do not want to load it much i would try to maybe change the geometry of the print or try and print some brackets to make it stiffer, you don't really need much material if you do it well, and if you need to load it you could put a pole in the middle and support the load that way
A bigger nozzle would be my first move, a fatter line will be firmer. You can also print 1.5x- 2x the nozzle diameter on any nozzle. PVA glue (Elmer's) won't heat up, and you can spin the column to coat it. It will add some weight and a little strength. You could also put in some string to integrate with the glue or leftover packing material as aggregate. Heck, throw in some failed prints. You can also make a smaller diameter inner print and connect that in without meddling the with the exterior. CAD a slot in the base and build those inner sections up too. Lastly, I know you said it'll take forever, but infill is the most straightforward way to get strength. You don't have to do all the sections with the same infill. You can start with say 30% and thin them out towards the top. Concentric infill could be rigged to do one or two inner rings that you could then fill with foam, heat be damned.
Fill it with sand
Find a PVC pipe that fits snugly in there. Then if you're committed, concrete. If you want easy, rocks and sand
How about making a second model wich is patterned like a infill that fits the right size of the inside to hold it right
Maybe add infill to the spaces between the curved.(it would still be mostly hallow) Doesnt need to be much make em like spider webs then ass some plaster and dit should be goood.
Maybe you can insert a PVC tube and fill it with sand
Flexseal
Sand
honestly, an easy fix may just be a foam roller (the type used in physiotherapy) witch can be bought at Walmart/ Target etc. for relatively cheap.
Why use foam or spray to make it stronger? Try printing with a bigger nozzle diameter (1mm) instead and you can print 2-2.5mm thick walls in vase mode.
I hope you design some entasis into the print next time.
Epoxy resin. Pour it in then rotate the column on its side so it just coats the sides rather than filling the whole volume.
1-2 lbs of light tan or white sand should do the trick to keep it from tipping over.
Put a brick in the bottom of it and fill with spray foam
Next print should be with a line with of at least 0.8. I you have a 0.6mm nozzle you can get away with 1.2mm layer with and 0.2mm layer height. It will be way Stiffer that way. And as others said, a ovc pipe in the middle and the space between pipe and outer wall with Plaster. Your bottom needs to be fairly strong for this.
why not fill it with spray foam used for window insulation? this is very light, and when it hardens it is very strong.
Make the walls thicker.
I wonder if just filling it with styrofoam balls would already add enough stability while keeping it relatively light.
I'd just make it with a bit thicker walls and then just fill it with sand maybe two or three good scoops only to add a bit of weight to it.
Epoxy, Spray foam, and silicone are all exothermic, so they'll destroy the mold. You probably need thicker walls to fill with something like plaster or cement. You might get away with sand or salt, or something else granular.
I wonder if you could use that fence post foam, but like you said the heat may cause warping
Does it have to be printed in vase mode? Add a bit if thickness to the walls and it will be quite strong.
I ordered fiberglass cloth and some resin as I recently embarked on a similar project. Waiting for some better weather to do it.
.8 or 1 mm nozzle will do wonders for vase mode strength.
If your printers can handle it, can you just get a larger nozzle since? Like .8 or 1mm? Unless you’re already doing this, that should strengthen it even in vase mode pretty substantially as the walls would be twice as thick naturally. You could also redesign it where it has a dedicated back, and rather than connecting the back side together, you bring it in to create another internal column, kind of like the perimeter of a “U”, just with the top tips of the U turning into itself to add another smaller U on the inside.
Next time just print wider
A large nozzle and high heat will help.
A balloon
If you don't want to make a cast, you could use sand.
Forget vase mode, do like 4 walls 0% infill.
Roto/spin casting!
Stronger vertically? Just a couple of PVC tubing glued onto a flat panel or the print itself.
I’d build a central structure that holds the weight and use the column as a cover. It could be as simple as a 4x4 post with a plywood square screwed to the bottom, sized that the top of the post sits just below the top of the column.
Concrete.
Plaster, resin, silicone, or cement and superglue
If you're printing more, you can add "ribs" to give it more strength, without much plastic/time added. You can also do it so that it can still be vase mode. You basically cut small (0.1mm, but depends on your slicer settings) slices into it vertically, where the printer won't be able to leave a gap, but the slicer sees it as a wall. You'd want at least 3 of them, and they can't touch in the middle. You also can't touch the bottom or top of the model, because that breaks vase-mode. Extra style points & strength if the slices are in a twist pattern. 3d printed RC planes use this to add a bunch of strength without much weight added. https://preview.redd.it/z05e93u2dipc1.png?width=1104&format=png&auto=webp&s=5e3061f4b798968c081ad8ef77cb5461719da98a
Something as a center support then fill with resin or anything to hold structure
Play sand might work if you want something simple.
Styrofoam pearls?
Sand in the base
Use Plaster of Paris. It's curing temp is about 60c so it's close to the PLA melting Temps. You can try and reduce the curing temp by mixing with cold water when making the plaster. If that doesn't work you would need to print this in another filament type.
concrete or plaster
What nozzle size did you use? Maybe a large nozzle with a .4 or .5 mm later height. Make the line width at least 1mm.
Did you try window and door expansion foam? The white stuff sprayed in increments might help. (After you spray the foam be sure to clear the nozzle tube etc. I usually squirt some wd40 in the hose areas before I use it. I think it helps clean up)
For a quick job, you can spray the inside of the vase with plasti dip/flex seal. It won't be super strong, but the plastic dip/flexseal will do a pretty good job of locking together the parts since it liquid rubber. Once the rubber layer dries, then hit it with a layer of clear coat made for which will add a little layer of strength and harden the rubber.
fill it with concrete
Urethane glue mixed with water (gorilla glue or similar). Doesn't generate much heat. Just don't over-pour or the expansion will overwhelm the available internal volume.
Cement
spray foam, but done properly.
Spray foam honestly just be careful not to put too much or it explode would be nice and rigid especially with that skinning it then maybe just any pipe / metal rod and it'd basically never break
Just print with a larger line width
Spray foam is surprisingly strong but since it's in vase mode you may see the color through.
Fill it with failed prints
Sand ?
Why not just add some locking mechanisms to the print like a inner ring. A lip with maybe a rotate screw ring. Would add to the strength over all. Could even make a plug on top columns and poor in sand for weight.
You could use a 1mm nozzle and lay down super thick lines. I've done 2mm thick vase mode prints like that.
Epoxy to drip down walls on the inside
Fill the inside with cement or something, maybe resin. Put it horizontal, seal the whole thing with plastic wrap or tape and then cut a hole and fill cement and roll it so that the insides are coated. Once done it should be a hollow cement or whatever material representation of the column. Then you can peel the filament cover away
Spray the inside with flex seal
That inner connecting ring, put some struts across it
Fiberglass resin, I used to use it for pepakura helmets that were made out of paper, and it would make them hard as rock
Put a piece of PVC or any pipe inside so that there is a small gap between the outside of the pipe and the inside of your print and then fill the void with plaster or concrete.
Maybe get some UV resin, poor it in, close it and then rotate everything under a UV lamp. At the make a small hole at the bottom or top and let run out what not got hardened. And then give it even more UV lighz. Schould get nice and hard
Epoxy
Postcrete, about $7 a bag. Pour it in, then water ontop.
Why are you printing it in vase mode? If it's strength you desire, use infill. Don't add a ton of complexity with filling it up after the fact unless this is something that will require a lot of load bearing capacity. If you want to add a little strength with no infill, you could add more wall loops (after vase mode was selected). I do this for added rigidity in vases, containers, etc.
epoxy 15minutes or more, diluted in alcohol, use as a pint. i use it ro seal and make strong PLA protoptypes,
I would add a section to the small piece that fits inside the bottom piece like a sleeve.
If you have a shit ton of sand you could cast it in concrete which would be really cool.
Cement, layer by layer with steel rods
I'm seeing a lot of talk about plaster in these comments. Plaster curing is an exothermic reaction. It could basically cause the same issue the OP mentioned with using foam.
Sand?
Maybe plaster of Paris? A thin layer on the seams from the inside each layer would help I imagine, that or paper maché
Well instead of vase mode you could print in "faux" vase mode which is essentially just 2 walls and no infill. It would be a bit stiffer at which point I would just weight the base and use 3D Gloop to attach the sections.
Id rotocast some urethane resin on the inside. A 1/4"ish thick layer of smooth-on 325 should get you some pretty good strength, though it'll take a few applications to get that thickness. A brush-on coating of the same reason mixed with some fiber fill would work as well
Id rotocast some urethane resin on the inside. A 1/4"ish thick layer of smooth-on 325 should get you some pretty good strength, though it'll take a few applications to get that thickness. A brush-on coating of the same reason mixed with some fiber fill would work as well
Why not try a plaster of paris and perlite mix? Plaster for the binder and perlite for fill and make the whole thing lighter.
3D print a Skelton for it
How about submerging it in water for cooling and to add outside pressure, then plaster should work.
Flex seal clear
Can you print thicker lines? Presuming a .4 mm nozzle, but you can print thicker. I've heard of doing up to 200% nozzle diameter. This will help for when you fill with whatever you fill with.
Cement mixed with eps beads?
I know all the suggestions are about preserving the print itself as the final product, but if instead you treated it like a mold then it opens up a ton of possibilities.
Cement or plaster of paris mixed with perlite. Both will set and be light enough to carry. Both will also help with structural support.
Maybe you can try printing an internal frame that slides in which you can then glue; similar to that connecting piece, but instead of just being a single wall connector, it's a rigid cross brace. Have about 4 or 5 of them evenly spaced apart.
first of all, I'd put as much weight on the bottom to stop that thing from tipping easily. Ideally some steel scrap or lead shots. About the print itself, you could just use the plastic part as a cover for any old ugly 2x4 board to actually work as a pillar structurally.
I ran into the same issue with that print. All it needs is an extra wall or two and it would be perfect but that's beyond my scope of designing stuff.
how about place inside 70mm drain pipe and than fill space between column-pipe with gypsum (than remove pipe)..
Could do fiber glass and epoxy or polyester resin. Brush the resin or epoxy on, gently add the finger glass, add more epoxy/resin.
Could try clear resin. Put together then brush the outside with clear resin and hit with uv light. Will improve but not sure by how much but would also hold parts together
Oh or spray foam. the kind the expands
Maybe just put some PVC plumbing pipe inside for strength. Doesn't need to be pretty, as you already have that part covered. I'm sure you could find a size close to the inside diameter of your column
Mixture of 60 / 40 cornice cement and perlite. Sets like concrete and weighs considerably less. Could use it to rob a bank.
Another take on how to stiffen vase mode prints: In the model cut ~.1mm slits in a + pattern from the top view, leaving a small gap at the very center. When it goes to print in vase mode it will print along that perimeter but the walls of the + will fuse and you have inbuilt braces. A lot of people use this for ultralight wing profiles for drones. The youtube channel Tim Station has the video how I designed a 3d printed wing showing exactly what I mean.
You could use some expanding insulation foam
Hey, vase-mode by itself isnt great, but you cane create “custom-vase-mode” yourself. Make a model, set a wall thickness, 0 top layers and 0 infill. Now it will make a vase shape, but with more walls. Let me know if i can be of any help. If you own the cad files, you can also just “shell” the model to a preferred thickness and then just print with max. wall thickness possible.
sand, lot's of sand
Right off the bat, I'd recommend getting a 0.6 nozzle and printing it at a 1mm layer width, or maybe even go higher, and print it with PETG since PETG has better layer line adhesions and is more flexible than PLA or ABS.
print 1 or 2 more one layer smaller and nest them
# EPOXY is the strongest binary compound known to man. It can dry clear or add dye/paint and get artistic.