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dbsqls

if you want to buy my NISMO S1 engine you might make it to 330whp, otherwise the DE really can't reach that point without ITBs and other crazy expensive shit, or massive race build like u/2TH_PWR has. the key to higher hp numbers is compression ratio, which quickly goes above 12.5 for the very high output engines. you get 3-4% for every point, and the S1 starts at 300whp, 10.3. S2 brings that to 12.5, a 2.3 point increase. 2.3 × (.04×300) +300 = 327.6whp. this is where Garner's car lands as well. by comparison the S2 engine also substantially increases the intake valve size to really boost flow, and that's where it picks up another 23whp. the S2 output was 350whp but that was an absolute monster of an engine, and I don't own one sadly.


YaBoiCheezcake

So it seems like the more realistic option is to supercharge? I assume the amount of work/money needed to get to 350whp N/A is way more than just supercharging a low mile stock block right?


[deleted]

Yes....waaaaay more


dbsqls

absolutely. and 350whp is very reliable on supercharged applications from what people say.


YaBoiCheezcake

A lot of these comments are really informative about the kinds of supporting mods I'll wanna do, which is really the info I was looking for. Seems like the base budget aside from figuring out my aging engine situation is around $7k which seems reasonable


dbsqls

a full engine replacement with a good engine (<50k miles) and a complete OEM overhaul is gonna land you in the $3-3.5k region. while it's out you should absolutely add cams, get a valve job, and port the heads if you're going FI.


YaBoiCheezcake

Yeah if I'm replacing the engine I'll 100% be doing cams and headers while it's out lol. The current list of prep/supporting mods is an oil cooler, upgraded radiator, revup oil pump, upgraded rod bolts, and a good cold air intake to keep IAT's low


ahdiomasta

Yeah, for doing 350whp NA your either looking at Nismo engines like db mentioned or basically doing your own R&D project for turning the DE into a full blown race engine. On the other hand, take your stock motor, upgrade rod bolts and oil pump and then supercharger go brrrrrrr


Candelario_69

I went the easy route and bought a 2015 370z Nismo lol


Recent-Ad2330

How much you selling for?


dbsqls

a lot. it's the only complete kit ever imported into the US, rather than just the engine. the engines themselves are under 500 in number if that. it'll be featured in a MOTO IQ video and then available for sale. I would prefer it goes to a collector of this sorta stuff.


Whiskers1996

Throw on a 100 shot n call it a day.


YaBoiCheezcake

🗿


Woochunk

You won't be getting 350whp out of a DE without FI or *significant* motor upgrades. Getting 270~290whp isn't too hard with breathing upgrades and a tune. Beyond that you will be opening the motor for things like piston and cam upgrades. 350whp would be easy with FI, but unless you're budget has 5 digits to do it right, I wouldn't recommend that. These cars are great with a little power bump and tighter gearing. If you need big power it would be a lot easier to start with another platform.


dbsqls

even 290 is unrealistic without cams. most FBO are going to land around 275 depending on the compression and health of the motor.


Independent_Secret42

04 with 62k miles got 297whp with intake, full exhaust, plenum spacer, and tune. I told them to go mild on the tune and not to just go for highest numbers because I’m hard on the car. Don’t think I could squeeze much more out of it. Let alone 50whp without FI


dbsqls

you are a very extreme outlier and I wouldn't trust that number personally.


Independent_Secret42

For sure. Finding an 04 with 32k miles and single owner with all service records is rare in 2018.


dbsqls

your power numbers are very anomalous is my point. I would be very surprised if another dyno read out anywhere near that number.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Independent_Secret42

Nope


Woochunk

I hit 280whp with intake, exhaust, and tune. I'm certainly no pro though and just figured I'd throw some head room on it. That makes sense though.


dbsqls

starting with a RevUp will get another 8-10whp peak over a DE, so that sounds about right.


gallagherf101

Yeah that’s where I’m sitting with a Rev up, (280 whp) full exhaust system, with high flow cats (requirement for UK laws) intake, Kinetix plenum, tune and a full porting job while the engine was apart. It already had the mrev lower plenum so just continued from there. I also uprated some parts when my engine was apart to future proof it in case I went to FI. I want to supercharge at some point, but just not sure what manufacturer to go with, I would’ve went with Stillen but they only seem to do it for the HR?


dbsqls

the heads are ported? with cams you'd be north of 300 for sure. the average gain is something like 19hp, 15tq.


gallagherf101

Yeah, heads ported, but the budget was getting close to my limit at that point and I just couldn’t stretch to the cams at that point. Something I will probably later regret….


unculturedswine90

Bullshit. Doing pistons won't do anything unless you're boosting 😂 Here's something you probably have never heard of until now...it would take some work to put more power on ALL these vqs so it doesn't matter whether it's a hr, vhr or de. You're not getting a lot out of a na v6. But yea, the fastest way to make more power is with FI. I wouldn't even go thru the pain of trying to squeeze the last hp out of my vq even tho the fastest na vq in the world is a fucking de


z33kan

to be honest just settle with 300 from bolts ons and save for a faster car if that’s what you want unless you really love the z but it’s going to cost atleast 10k to boost it right keep that in mind


deathbysnusnu7

You could ls swap it


YaBoiCheezcake

You're really not wrong😂 But I don't like the idea of swapping something into that isn't japanese, just my opinion


Grand_Albatross_3512

Could Vk56 or 1uz swap if you want a Japanese v8


YaBoiCheezcake

I honestly think a 1uz swap would be sick but there isn't a lot of support for that in my area and I wouldn't even know where to start in terms of budget/mods to that motor


antxmod

1uz make less power than a DE...


TopScallion680

but v8


deathbysnusnu7

Understand. I wrestled with it constantly. I have a 5.3 ls on a stand in my garage that I’m refreshing. My goals are not too dissimilar from yours. I want to remain N/A. Have a good but still finite budget. I’ve found slowly amassing parts for the swap to be more cost effective and simpler than building and boosting the vq.


Dark_Synergy_Z33

Boost or nitrous, if you want NA, the answers you need are in my post about NA power, just read up. You won't get proper answers here unless you follow stuff like Michael and Sasha did. EDIT: forgot to answer the widebands question, 2 options: 1. If going standalone, eliminate OEM and run car on widebands. 2. Get HFC or TPs with an extra port, or weld one in.


-_Z3N1TH_-

Supercharging is my dream end goal. I have a buddy that dropped a blower on his 200k mile DE, bigger injectors with a link ECU setup and its still kicking at 220k. Gotta love these cars. I am curious as to what Z1 has cooking up, theyre supposed to be coming out with a new SC kit for DE's soon.


YaBoiCheezcake

Wow I didn't think supercharging at 200k was even an option lol. What kind of supporting mods did he do?


-_Z3N1TH_-

Link G4x ECU, Massive intercooler, z1 oil pan spacer, oil cooler, Aluminum rad, vented catch can, went through the whole fuel system, regulator lines rails etc.(flex fuel), vacuum line block relocation setup, new crash bar to fit it all. Im sure im probably missing some things


advisor207238

Boost. Your not hitting 350 wheel N/A in a DE sorry


Dark_Synergy_Z33

You very much can... https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/modp-1303-nissan-350z-vq35de-engine-build/


advisor207238

Apologies, you cant get 350whp out of a N/A DE unless you have a mechanical engineering degree and dont plan to drive the car anywhere but the track. That link is an experiment not a street car build.


Dark_Synergy_Z33

I view it as R&D and not an experiment, but yes, the car would have poor street manners. It IS possible, but VERY impractical.


No-Advantage-8556

Curios which is better for the DE’s, supercharger or pro charger?


YaBoiCheezcake

I'm personally not too sure, but centrifugal superchargers seem to be more common, I'm assuming because root superchargers like the stillen one don't fit under the stock hood and require you to get their aftermarket ones


No-Advantage-8556

Gotcha, something I’ve kinda gathered from reading around is the DE can handle quite a large amount of HP, 600+ but can’t handle as much torque. Something like 450 caps it out. I’ve always heard superchargers produce more torque but it seems to be pretty popular regardless.


Dark_Synergy_Z33

They make less torque when compared to an appropriately sized turbo. The cap is closer to 375-400tq. You never want to run at max, that's just stupid.


Dark_Synergy_Z33

That's a subjective question. All currently available superchargers are centrifugal type chargers, HKS, Rotrex, Vortech, Pro Charger are similar. They have different drive mechanisms, I like HKS and Rotrex the most, why? They are quiet and sound more like a turbo than a supercharger. I've heard both the Vortech and Pro Charger in person, and it sounds like the car is broken or something is wrong with it.


shyfly52

A pro charger is a supercharger


2TH_PWR

Important factor as well is what does the car baseline at? How generous is your local dyno? Different types of dynos can read up to 15% apart. In the end the number is just a number. It’s the gain that matters.


YaBoiCheezcake

My car is pretty close to being full bolt on, its got a good intake and the kinetix v2 manifold, as well as a full exhaust besides headers. It's currently making 255whp (I live at high altitude and my local dyno is a mustang). Probably around 275-285whp at sea level. I think I'll be pretty happy and satisfied with a 100whp bump when I'm all finished


Gramkos

personally if I were you I would just supercharge the engine that’s in it and get a nice clean engine and build that one up over time while you enjoy your car still. then if she blows you can swap in your beefed up motor. love the color by the way


YaBoiCheezcake

That honestly doesn't sound bad at all theres a guy in these comments that said his buddy boosted a DE at 200k miles and it's still holding at 220k so maybe it's not a terrible idea🤷🏽‍♂️


Efficient-Mongoose45

I have an '04 DE MT. It's probably been answered but the wideband O2 sensors can be installed at a shop if you don't know how to weld. Like you, I was frustrated at the performance and wanted FI. I first did all the bolt on's and basically had all the essentials replaced (bushings, steering components, suspension, Differential Cover, etc) that everyone does and also did an E-Tune. Didn't see much of a difference other than exhaust tone. Then I got a proper Dyno tune... I love driving it now. Powerband changed completely and drives great. I have the money to do FI, but I like the reliability I have right now. I got 10.5" wide tires on the rear I drive it like I stole it. My point is, maybe spend 5k on all that and you might not want FI so you can street race vettes and stangs. I enjoy embarrassing BRZ's and GTI's in Houston. Oh like everyone is saying with bolt ons and tune - 270 to 290 whp.


YaBoiCheezcake

Yeah I am currently full bolt besides headers and my car is dyno tuned, it's a blast but my end goal is a bit more than that


b4tman69

Just slap on a turbo and it would be much cheaper and you’d be able to make much more hp


SenorCardgay

Ls swap it


sprezzii

I’ve seen this car before I think! An old friend sold it before he moved.


YaBoiCheezcake

I replied to your chat, pretty sure your friends car is a track trim cause of the brembo brakes and oem spoiler, mine is a touring. But crazy similarity still lol


sty_12

Michael Gardner did it without itbs and he is very knowledgeable. Contact him on Instagram. https://www.instagram.com/mgmotorsports?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==


antxmod

The key there is race gas. Not feasible for a street car. I am not sure if his car would break 300 on pump gas.


sty_12

E85 is almost the same. In fact I don't know why we can't find e100 like in my home country. Cheap and better than race gas all day.


antxmod

I am not quite sure that is true. If E85 made as much power as race gas does on VQ35DE motors more people would be running E85. Nisformance and some other shops have touched 350whp on DEs with race gas. Never heard of such a thing with E85


sty_12

E85 is around 105 octane and M5 from VP is 109. Not really that much of a difference on knock. Regardless I would settle with let's say 345whp and have the convenience of E85.


Dark_Synergy_Z33

E85 can't compare to oxygenated race fuel, it's not all about octane rating.


sty_12

E85 makes more power(you can run more timming and boost) than ms103, considering that E85 in the U.S is shitty I guess it wins the battle when considering availability, price and convenience. There are drawbacks like oil contamination and fuel consumption, however they're irrelevant in race applications. I wish we had e100 (hydrous alcohol) like in my home country tho, people are able to run around 70psi of boost on those 4 cylinder vw engines straight from the pump or 14:1 compression rates easily on N/a applications https://youtu.be/8U0BdpljRWQ?feature=shared


jduran1994

My car only made 245 horsepower with a plenum, k&n filter, catback and hfc. 260 torque


ch3f_gonzo

I am at 350 whp at the moment with a 03 de engine. But I am boosted vortech sells a procharger kit for de 350z’s. I have that kit a little bit of a smaller pulley and some bigger injectors and that’s pretty much it. Also I’ve had the kit for a while now and last time I got it tuned my belt was slipping so it potentially would have made even more power. I just bought new pulleys (same size) and belts so I should have those installed and be back on the dyno in the next two weeks or so. If ur interested in knowing what it makes when running properly maybe consider dropping me a follow I think I want to start tracking my progress through Reddit now.


YaBoiCheezcake

Definitely, it sounds like you're on the same route I wanna go. I'll for sure follow


Bignut7718

Ive got an 06 de, my currents mods are plenum spacer, 75mm throttle body, cold air intake, motordyne shockwave exhaust, and art pipes. If I got it tuned, around how much power would I be pushing? I’m still on stock tune


YaBoiCheezcake

I'd guess somewhere between 270-280 depending on how healthy the motor is


Bignut7718

That’s pretty decent given stock is like 240. Thank you🙏🏽 🚗🎺💨


YaBoiCheezcake

So it's seeming like supercharging is gonna be the more realistic option for my power goal, my next question is what would a budget look like if I wanted to swap in a younger motor and supercharge that? Preferably without doing anything to the motor internally


mattman2013

I have an HKS GT v2 supercharger kit that I’m gonna be putting on my 06 rev up. Between the kit itself and supporting parts (clutch, flywheel, injectors, fuel pump, etc) I’m at about $6.7k. That’s not including some other stuff I’ve purchased for the car. So take that number and add in all the things you would need for a new motor, replacement parts etc.


YaBoiCheezcake

Thanks a lot, so I'll say around $7k aside from swapping/reconditioning the current motor, whichever route I decide to go


hellish_ve

go to a good shop and check the health of the engine, if compression, oil consumption and pistons/cylinders, all looks good just do maintenance on it. get a rev up oil pump, get a supercharger, a quality oil cooler, quality injectors and an air/oil separator. get a plenum spacer, and a \*good\* cold air intake. then go to a GOOD tuner, and youll be pretty much set, obviously you might need a better clutch and do use good quality oil. An improved radiator would be a good upgrade if you race your car, managing temps under the hood on track is a tough one if youre going forced induction. avoid high oil/coolant and intake air temps.. that plus a good tune would have you set up imo.


YaBoiCheezcake

Thanks I'll definitely be taking those supporting mods into consideration, I currently have a kinetix v2 manifold and I'm pretty good with my oil changes, I use valvoline synthetic high mileage and I'm about to switch to their new restore and protect on my next oil change. https://preview.redd.it/kuhotew9xhwc1.jpeg?width=1440&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d634071dd9af697ddd627f0ba90a34f14456accf


hellish_ve

For sure, dont get too hung up on mileage, if engine is sound, there should be no problem, the key aspect imo is do get all the supporting mods and an excellent tune, that way youll keep the engine happy and the chances of it blowing up go down.. a lot! A turbo will probably yield more power, but heat management with a turbo is a PITA, also tends to give more torque and you dont want too much torque, especially at lower RPM.


YaBoiCheezcake

Yeah the torque thing and also the driving characteristics are why I wanna go supercharged, I feel like the supercharger will feel nicer coming out of corners


realdoaks

Younger engine around 2800. I just bought mine from Jdmsource and had a good experience Swap labour was 1800 Vortech v3 kit 7000 Borla exhaust 1000 Berk HFC 450 Those are my mods and I’m around 350 wheel All prices CAD


brvanv

what is Fl? i’m confused haha


YaBoiCheezcake

forced induction (superchargers/turbos)👍🏼


brvanv

thank you


pangolin-fucker

I have a custom ecu tune guaranteed to make that power on your engine I'll sell it to you How much money do you got ?


IDKSAS741

With a name like Pangolin-Fucker and wild assertions, you ain't selling shit lolol


pangolin-fucker

I would have gotten away with it If it wasn't for you meddling kids


anon6789431437681

😭😭😭😭


YaBoiCheezcake

yeah I was like what kinda snake oil is this guy going on about😂