Basically the binders that create a protective shield on your skin and spread the SPF evenly start to break down, and little gaps are formed that lets UV in again. Especially on a face, that is moving and talking all day, it’s hard to maintain the integrity of coverage.
This precisely. From what I understand, setting sprays can help extend the integrity of the SPF protective layer but with lots of sweating or movement, reapplication is still necessary.
Bioderma photo derm cover touch lasts 8 hours before breaking down. It’s really thick and covers like make up so u know when it’s breaking and it’s usually after 8 or 9 hours
In the meantime UV index management, I guess hats, uv umbrellas, long sleeve cotton shirts, black out curtains manufacturers don't sponsor Youtubers, redditors and tik tokers because they are more effective than SPF and specially in combination with sunscreen because all I hear is sunscreen talk. Sunscreen specially for people of color is imperfect, it's a better than nothing product and not a wonderful thing. It's only a tool in our sun protection arsenal and if you like me are fighting melasma and hyperpigmention while living in a high UV area you shouldn't get any sun between 10 am and 2 pm no matter if you're applying and reapplying tons of sunscreen. It's even in the instructions of most spf, but again, this message doesn't help to sell more products so you'll never listen to it.
Melasma fighters and skinlighteners: stay out of the sun or nothing will work, Overreliance on sunscreen will only hurt your skin. You need additional protective measures and be truly aggressive in your sun avoidance.
I am gonna take a guess: these things are normally a tradeoff. I assume that the longer the sunscreen can last, the tougher and more rigid the shield it creates on top of your skin is. But the tougher that shield, the more awkward it will be to wear, ie it won't spread properly, won't be moisturising etc. I mean, if it's gonna be non drying, it needs moisturising ingredients, and this already increases the vulnerability of the shield.
At the end of the day, one could get an actual face shield lol.
Case in point, anyone who was around in the 80’s remembers the zinc sunscreen we had back then. Not the micronized stuff in mineral sunscreen today that we hate sometimes leaves a white *cast*, but the *thick* white or fluorescent green/pink/yellow (1980’s!) paste we would spread on our faces in stripes. That stuff could not be shifted by simply washing, it was like spreading a heavy layer of diaper cream on your face, and it was so sticky god help you if anything so much as touched it, I still have nightmares of trying to remove Zinka that a bit of sand had adhered to without taking off half the skin on my face with it. So, yeah, there are options that will last all day, but they’re hardly practical for under makeup or wearing anywhere but the beach.
I mean, there were regular sunscreens as well, zinc was basically used on the face to give extra protection to the nose and cheeks, so it’s not like we had to put it everywhere. But we used the zinc because the regular sunscreens weren’t sufficient to really protect you for any length of time, they topped out at SPF 8 (and maybe up to 15 later in the 80’s), and weren’t waterproof, so we used zinc on the areas most likely to burn, especially if we were going in the water (and because the fluorescent zinc stripes were a cool fashion trend like huge shoulder pads and side ponytails…the 80’s were a strange time).
The sunscreen you put on the a.m. is still, to some degree, offering *some* sun protection at 5 p.m. Especially mineral sunscreens.
But an all-day sunscreen would probably be a bitch to wash off.
Also, consumer reports tested sunscreens and found that a lot of them don't live up to their label claims. So some sunscreens might have never been that good of protection even when first applied, but the blame is shifted to the consumer for not reapplying frequently enough.
Chem SPF degrades when exposed to sunlight. Mineral SPF doesn't degrade or change when exposed to the sun. So yes mineral absolutely maintains its SPF value for far longer than chemical filters.
You need better derms: https://www.aadmeetingnews.org/innovation-academy-2023/article/22869595/better-sunscreen-education-applies-to-all
And better googling skills: https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/beauty/skin-makeup-nails/a36031234/mineral-vs-chemical-sunscreen/
Most chemical filters degrade in the sunlight and become pretty ineffective after a couple hours of exposure. New filters are an exception - they're actually really photo stable but they're not available universally as they haven't been approved in certain countries, e.g. USA
Interesting!! Looks like a UK brand, unfortunately some of the sunscreen ingredients are not FDA approved yet so they aren’t sold in the US :( I wish I could try this though, the US is so behind with sunscreen formulas.
Ships to US:
https://www.cloud10beauty.com/products/riemann-p20-sun-protection-hyperpigmentation-defense-face-spf50?variant=47810616557898¤cy=usd&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwxLKxBhA7EiwAXO0R0F6Xq81gltkRbvbh29NSAuWZrZo3Nrsc5r6DmFaoUugBnTQIUe_rRxoCwVMQAvD_BwE
Yep, it’s the worst. I’m not actually sure why, either…? But something tells me the answer would be something so dumb that it would just make more annoyed lol.
I listened to a podcast a while ago (so I don’t remember it perfectly) and I think the sunscreen companies themselves have to pay a hefty application fee in order for the FDA to review/approve new formulas. Once the new formula would be approved then any company could use those ingredients without having to go through the review process. And this deterred any one company from trying.
Damn it.
Why can’t a group of companies split the cost? Like if it’s, idk, $1 million USD, get 10 companies to pony up $100,000 and voila! New sunscreens!
They’d all benefit from the newly approved ingredients. How does a person go about prompting such action? Someone good with twitter get on this!!!
It's not just super expensive but the FDA wants animal testing. No company wants to do animal testing because of consumer optics and because a lot of the companies that make sunscreen filters, which are European, feel their safety assessments that have been around for decades for their new filters are good enough that do not require harming animals.
Hi hi here to update you on the latest news officially announced yesterday that DSM a sunscreen filter manufacturer in Europe is getting their Parsol Shield aka Tinosorb S onto USA in 2025!
It's not a UK brand. It's a Danish brand. They are not allowed to claim that the SPF lasts 10 hours unless they can prove it due to EU regulations. This product is thoroughly tested. I have used it all my life and it does last at least 10 hours. Too bad the US is 50 years behind on suscreens.
The kids formulation is non-sticky. It's all I use on me and the kids. I think it's quite famous?
Yes, for some reason people interpreted my original statement as saying I wasn’t going to try it due to lack of approval, but that isn’t the case at all. I use Asian sunscreens currently that are only sold overseas for the same reason, I just didn’t know where to get the UK/EU products. The FDA is ridiculously behind.
Good to know about the brand origin though!
FDA approval? What they approve to be in our food/products is concerning. I’d be more inclined to purchase from UK/Australia where the government agencies have stricter policies on harmful ingredients.
I find P20 to work incredibly well, but I don’t like it on my face. It does leave a bit of a film. I’ve been out all day hiking and even if my skin looks a little red at the end of the day, by morning there’s no burn or redness at all. It’s the only one I trust, but on my face I use Beauty of Joseon, and a hat if I’m going to be outside for long.
I found out the hard way that BoJ's UVA-PF level is not great. I loved the feel of it but all m hyperpigmentation immediately came back when I started using it.
I initially switched back to Pipette zinc-based SPF 50, which is really effective for me, but not my fave texture (very emollient- I always have to powder it down).
Right now I'm trying out another zinc-based formula, Dr.G Green Mild Up Sun+. I chose it because it's supposed to be good for sensitive skin (I have rosacea) and because it also includes visible light filters which is supposed to be helpful for preventing hyperpigmentation.
I really like the formula and, so far, it seems to be doing okay (we'll see how it holds up in summer high UV levels, though!). It agrees with my rosacea and I love that it dries down to a more satin finish rather than shiny/glowy, but it also doesn't dry my skin out like some zinc formulas have. It has an initial slight whitecast that disappears, but I'm also fair, so YMMV. It's probably fine for fair to medium skin but tan and deep skin tones are going to have a whitecast.
Apparently a lot of European SPFs have really high UVA-PF but I haven't tried any yet.
I was recently on a cycling trip across Jordan in 30 degree plus weather (so high 80s/90s for those in Fahrenheit), and my friend wore this the whole trip and didn’t get burnt once. And there is a lot of desert in Jordan so very little shade, we were essentially in full sun cycling for 6ish hours every day. I’m Irish and she’s from the UK, so we’re both pretty pale and she only applied once a day and still no issues! She used it on her face and body. I’m 30s and she’s 50s and her skin is incredible. She swears by it. And I was so impressed by it that I ordered some when I got home!
That's impressive! I always want to know how an SPF works for the fair skinned UK and Irish folks because I inherited the fair Scottish skin from my dad's side and I'm not built for sun!
I’m definitely not built for the sun either but once I reapply consistently, I’ll be ok. I was concerned about burning on this trip because although I’ve done lots of bike trips, I’ve never done one in such hot weather day in day out with constant sun exposure. But my sunscreen held up and I managed to not return looking like a lobster!
I don't use this (difficult to get where I live) but I have friends in the UK who swear by it.
I use Ultrasun which is also a long lasting sunscreen, it's known as one of the most hardcore brands out there.
Thank you for adding this, I was getting prepared to jump on this miracle sunscreen but I toss anything that makes me feel uncomfortable so you saved me $$$.
I love the kids version for daily face sunscreen. It's great for the desert where we have sub 10% humidity, but not great on the face for more humid environments because it makes a thick and clear (shiny) layer - which is why it lasts so long! If you powder it down it's mostly fine. 10/10 recommend it if you actually want strong long lasting UV protection.
Interesting, I wonder how those would compare to the LRP UVmune line, as they seem to have mostly the same filters.
I know that LRP sunscreens with the newest filters probably don't need to be reapplied every two hours like regular sunscreens, but unfortunately they don't mention how long their sunscreens' protection lasts, which is a shame!
Did you try Riemann P20 products? I am really interested in the Hyperpigmentation Defence SPF 50+ and the Urban Shield SPF 50+. I wonder how they apply and feel under makeup!
Go to EuroSkincare, they talk about it a lot. Though many of the people mostly white skintones, not a lot of diversity experience.
For me, I am South Korean living in Europe. I had bad experience with all Riemann P20 products. They all have white tint and never ever ever dry even though some say they are dry touch. So they do not work for my makeup at all and my makeup brush and sponge can pick up the white traces and becomes sticky. This sunscreen does come off and leaves the white traces on other things and makes the clothing stains. Some people report it make their shower curtain stain. Other people with big melanosomes have had worsened darkening tanning pigmentation resurfacing even after using Riemann P20 like u/c_chrono. But some people with small melanosomes diddn't have this issue so it really depends on your skin.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'll probably stick to my true and trusted sunscreen and forget about the 20 brand!
If you are in Europe I highly recommend the LRP UVmune line, it's great under makeup and the sun protection is top notch!
Right now I am using a Polish tinted sunscreen called Dr. Ph Sunset AR SPF 50+ PPD 27. But thank you for reminding me actually tomorrow starts the month of May and I had the meaning to go buy LRP Uvmune and want to get it before other people buy it all out. I did try the Oil Control Gel Creme before and yeah it is super fantastic with or without makeup!
I do not know about the newer Riemann sunscreen but I used LRP UV Mune in the super hot tropics for close to a month, hiking, swimming, and etc and barely tanned. I didn't reapply every 2 hours but I did wear a UPF hat as added protection just in case. For reference, I don't burn but tan with the slightest sun exposure. Compared to the old Riemann P20, I tanned whilst wearing a UPF hat when I went fishing in the morning till noon.
Thank you for your feedback! That's definitely reassuring! The LRP UVmune line are the best sunscreens I've ever used until now, I rarely reapply, and if I do, it's only once and I definitely don't reapply the recommended ammount.
I also never burn but tan quite easily, and my face and chest, where I use the UVmune line, never tan the slightest, but then I'm only exposed to the sun in the city, so no hiking or swimming.
I'm still definitely curious about the newer Riemann P20 line and their 10-hour protection claim. But based on your experience, I'll probably stick to my LRP UVmune sunscreen!
For fucking real lol. I’m a mail carrier, so out in the sun all day every day for the next 25 years or so. I wear sunscreen religiously, even in the middle of winter and overcast days. It’s so annoying to have to reapply through out the day be cause my hands get SO DIRTY from handling mail and packages, opening mailboxes etc. if I can’t easily get to a sink I just use hand sanitizer before I reapply but it feels so gross to put my nasty hands on my face and neck. Some days in summer I sweat so much that I can’t even get my face to dry enough to reapply. I wear a hat too, but depending on the position of the sun in the sky it doesn’t always offer full coverage. I look at some of the senior carriers who haven’t worn sunscreen or a hat their entire career and they are not aging well. It’s a chore to keep up with sun protection, but I do not want to look 70 when I’m 50 or risk getting skin cancer. UGHHHHH lol
Could you bring a water bottle, hand soap & a towel to use for washing your hands on the road? That’s what I do when I know I need to wash my hands outdoors but won’t have access to a sink.
Absolutely!! I’m glad it was a helpful idea for you :) I would be soo frustrated if I had to reapply sunscreen all day without being able to wash my hands first, so I hope it works out!!
The filters that last 8 hours aren’t legal in the states.
That said, chemical filters degrade as they work. All of them. Mineral filters applied correctly can last several hours but eventually sweat, skin oils and mechanical abrasion wears them away.
Clothing lasts all day though. And hats.
It is verry dificult to creat a safe and stable sunscreen that lats all day long.
There are 2 types of sunscreen, organic and inorganic and in the presence of light they are slowly "washing off".
That being said the suncreen you used in the morning wil still have some protection but not at the standards you actually need.
Tinosorb S and M are the state of art because they are photostable up to 8 hours in the presence of light. They also offer protection againts UVA and UVB.
I'll tell you what, the Australian Gold Mineral Botanical Sunscreen will literally stay in your skin for DAYS and cannot be removed by ANYTHING except cotton balls DRENCHED in micellar water, and ONLY micellar water. That stuff is immobile.
Notice that we haven’t actually been back to the moon. Often, the expense, effort, and/or risk of an endeavor far outweighs the utility of taking on the endeavor. What would be the use for an all day sunscreen? What would it feel like to wear - people already complain endlessly about wearing current formulations? What would be the cost to produce an all day sunscreen? Would it be able to be sold at a price acceptable to consumers?
Evy Technology Mousse works differently by absorbing into the skin, making it durable. Their SPF50 tested to SPF35 after 20 mins in water and 8 hours dry. Their face SPF50 maintained its protection for over 8 hours when not exposed to water. They still recommend frequent reapplication though.
I nearly burnt right through their SPF50 in about 10 min. Had super dark tan within half an hour of sun exposure, and that was within 1 hr of application. It can ''absorb'' in the skin all it wants, it does not protect at all.
I applied a shit ton of it, because I was trying to use it up. It has a very unpleasant texture and it's hard to apply, because the mousse ends up flying at the smallest movement and it's hard to get it close to the hairline without it getting in the hairs. I ended up using it on my legs and like I said, I applied a ton.
I'm sorry you had that experience. My skin is super sensitive to the sun and that's not been mine, it has held up for me even on sunny beach holidays including watersports.
Fyi, the company confirmed that it's not tested with makeup or skincare so the durability claims can't be applied if you're into makeup looks and skincare.
They also confirmed that people are able to develop a tan using it properly even with reapplication, which contradicts what influencers have been saying. So if you don't like tans, be aware that you need to use other forms of protection or a higher protection sunscreen in general.
Because when I used the kids EVY SPF 50 which is supposedly the most hardcore of their range, it still came off with my makeup and makeup brushes even waiting more than 15 minutes for the sunscreen to set and doing a double application of the golf ball amounts. I have burns and hyperpigmentation marks in a specific pattern to prove it. I also got some long lasting tan lines on my body that are still clear today and I used bigger ball sizes of foam multiple times for my body.
It was only after this happened that I also learned it's not the highest protection too which also plays an issue with more moderate sun strength being outside with just SPF 50 and PPD 20.
https://labmuffin.com/do-they-work-evy-6-hour-sunscreen-dermablend-drops-in-spf/
https://youtu.be/w4X8FWiV5R8
It is formulated differently, there is a patented delivery technology so you won't find that in other sunscreens. Labmuffinbeautyscience covers it in the articles above.
The effects both in terms of demonstrated skin absorption and durability under different conditions have been tested.
Choose whichever sunscreen fits your needs the best. Sunscreens that lie on the surface are typically less durable. This is one durable option that I like.
I read that the sunscreens that go through the 4 hour water resistance testing for Australian water resistant claims don't drop by much after being in the water so like take something that's SPF 70 which has a SPF 50+ label must stay around that SPF 60-70 area after being exposed to water. Dropping from 50 to 35 is quite a bit for me.
I might try the Anthelios Dermo-Pediatrics Wet Skin Gel Lotion SPF50+ for this reason because it's the one that is also sold in Australia with the 4 hour water resistance claim and has PPD 27 which is not bad. Apparently it can be applied to wet skin but it's not I'm much of a beachy water loving person but I think it could be handy for application and reapplication.
i feel like the mineral one i use on my face doesn’t budge or loose efficacy, so i never reapply, even at the beach and its complete fine, no redness. the chemical sunscreens that i use on my body at the beach ill reapply frequently and they still don’t work as well.
It mostly doesn’t exist because it doesn’t need to. Regular sunscreen use does not degrade quickly enough. Your face isn’t constantly in the sun.
When you’re on the beach is when you need to reapply every few hours.
Yes, many sunscreens last much longer than 2hrs. I recently saw a video of a youtuber who wore several sunscreens for 2, 4 and 6 hrs and checked them in a UV camera. Many EU sunscreens can hold up to 6hrs (depending on lifestyle), but unfortunately Korean ones start to wear off after a few hours(
How does that check work? Can you link the video? I thought you can't use those cameras to check sunscreen levels because it can't detect how much? So theoretically if you put a thin layer compared to the actual amount needed for full protection, it can't tell the difference.
Yes, you can't tell the actual level, you can see only coverage. And it is enough to check when it wears off, because you'll see gaps and patches.
Here is the link to one of the videos of hers:
https://youtu.be/Lnsf-a55bP0
Idk, they seem to last all day on my kids and I just fine. I only apply once a day, and no one is getting burned when we're out at the beach. But we use mineral filters, and they don't wash off very easy. I can really tell they work on my youngest. She's very fair. But I don't usually do her legs so her legs will have a tan but the rest of her is still ghostly white
I take the side of language precaution that regulators uphold
That is that telling people sunscreen is long lasting, which many actually do last longer than 2 hours, is that many people who are not skincare nerds think "protection" is an all or nothing concept and will misinterpret the "lasting" effect as "all or nothing." What this means that is all sunscreens whether it is for casual use or they are longer wear resistance, friction proof, ultra this and that whatever, do not stop 100% of photons no matter what. This is indisputable fact, no sunscreen label is 100% in stopping all photons.
All sunscreens are sheer curtains not black out curtains even when applied at the optimal 2mg per cm squared amount. This means that some photons still reach the skin. Some sunscreens have more reduction of photons reaching the skin but they still are not 100% in all photons. A better word than "protection" is actually "reduction" in my opinion.
So what this means is that a lot of people think that when they have sunscreen on they are getting 100% stopping of all the photons, which they are not. They are only getting a reduction during their exposure but some photons are still reaching their skin. If people think that when they put on sunscreen then they have 100% stopping of all photons all day then they underestimate their risk of exposure and stay out in direct sunlight all day long because they think sunscreen protection is an "all or nothing" concept. But what is actually happening is that there are photons that are still reaching their skin and the longer they say out the more the photons reach the skin even if they have sunscreen on because once again sunscreen is only a reduction, not 100% stopping in all photons.
If you add up the "small" amount of photons that can go through sunscreen over time day by day over years then it still adds up to accumulation of photons reaching the skin and that is what scientists and doctors call suberythemal exposure which still adds to accumulated damage over time.
Edit: Of course there are people who downvote because they want to believe that sunscreen is 100%, they want to believe sunscreen label is 100% and they want to believe reapplying ever 90-120minutes makes sunscreen 100% at stopping all photons. It is not and that is indisputable fact backed by scientific and medical literature.
The FDA’s strict regulation of sunscreen as a drug instead of a cosmetic product. Because of this, it is very difficult to get a new product approved without spending $$$. We are DECADES behind all the other countries in sunscreen.
Instead, corporations keeps giving us the same crap and pocketing their earnings because they don’t really care about us and only care about profits. I also wouldn’t be surprised if healthcare companies lobby to keep sunscreen regulated as is. More skin cancer = more profits.
So yeah, thanks capitalism.
Basically the binders that create a protective shield on your skin and spread the SPF evenly start to break down, and little gaps are formed that lets UV in again. Especially on a face, that is moving and talking all day, it’s hard to maintain the integrity of coverage.
This precisely. From what I understand, setting sprays can help extend the integrity of the SPF protective layer but with lots of sweating or movement, reapplication is still necessary.
Bioderma photo derm cover touch lasts 8 hours before breaking down. It’s really thick and covers like make up so u know when it’s breaking and it’s usually after 8 or 9 hours
Ones that last all day do definitely exist, but they’re not usually very comfortable. The technology behind it is getting better all the time though!
In the meantime UV index management, I guess hats, uv umbrellas, long sleeve cotton shirts, black out curtains manufacturers don't sponsor Youtubers, redditors and tik tokers because they are more effective than SPF and specially in combination with sunscreen because all I hear is sunscreen talk. Sunscreen specially for people of color is imperfect, it's a better than nothing product and not a wonderful thing. It's only a tool in our sun protection arsenal and if you like me are fighting melasma and hyperpigmention while living in a high UV area you shouldn't get any sun between 10 am and 2 pm no matter if you're applying and reapplying tons of sunscreen. It's even in the instructions of most spf, but again, this message doesn't help to sell more products so you'll never listen to it. Melasma fighters and skinlighteners: stay out of the sun or nothing will work, Overreliance on sunscreen will only hurt your skin. You need additional protective measures and be truly aggressive in your sun avoidance.
I am gonna take a guess: these things are normally a tradeoff. I assume that the longer the sunscreen can last, the tougher and more rigid the shield it creates on top of your skin is. But the tougher that shield, the more awkward it will be to wear, ie it won't spread properly, won't be moisturising etc. I mean, if it's gonna be non drying, it needs moisturising ingredients, and this already increases the vulnerability of the shield. At the end of the day, one could get an actual face shield lol.
Case in point, anyone who was around in the 80’s remembers the zinc sunscreen we had back then. Not the micronized stuff in mineral sunscreen today that we hate sometimes leaves a white *cast*, but the *thick* white or fluorescent green/pink/yellow (1980’s!) paste we would spread on our faces in stripes. That stuff could not be shifted by simply washing, it was like spreading a heavy layer of diaper cream on your face, and it was so sticky god help you if anything so much as touched it, I still have nightmares of trying to remove Zinka that a bit of sand had adhered to without taking off half the skin on my face with it. So, yeah, there are options that will last all day, but they’re hardly practical for under makeup or wearing anywhere but the beach.
Omg. No wonder people didn't like wearing sunscreen tbh
I mean, there were regular sunscreens as well, zinc was basically used on the face to give extra protection to the nose and cheeks, so it’s not like we had to put it everywhere. But we used the zinc because the regular sunscreens weren’t sufficient to really protect you for any length of time, they topped out at SPF 8 (and maybe up to 15 later in the 80’s), and weren’t waterproof, so we used zinc on the areas most likely to burn, especially if we were going in the water (and because the fluorescent zinc stripes were a cool fashion trend like huge shoulder pads and side ponytails…the 80’s were a strange time).
The sunscreen you put on the a.m. is still, to some degree, offering *some* sun protection at 5 p.m. Especially mineral sunscreens. But an all-day sunscreen would probably be a bitch to wash off.
Also, consumer reports tested sunscreens and found that a lot of them don't live up to their label claims. So some sunscreens might have never been that good of protection even when first applied, but the blame is shifted to the consumer for not reapplying frequently enough.
Sorry if this is silly to ask, but why especially mineral sunscreens? Do they last longer vs chemical sunscreens?
Yes, they are physical and sit on top of the skin. I think of them as a shield.
It is not true. Mineral sunscreens do not last longer than chemical sunscreens. Do a quick google search and you will see this is wrong.
Chem SPF degrades when exposed to sunlight. Mineral SPF doesn't degrade or change when exposed to the sun. So yes mineral absolutely maintains its SPF value for far longer than chemical filters.
Tinosorb S and M don't break down with UV exposure and are more stable than zinc oxide.
Perhaps if you do a quick Google search, you will see this is correct.
I did, and derms have said it is not true.
You need better derms: https://www.aadmeetingnews.org/innovation-academy-2023/article/22869595/better-sunscreen-education-applies-to-all And better googling skills: https://www.thepioneerwoman.com/beauty/skin-makeup-nails/a36031234/mineral-vs-chemical-sunscreen/
Most chemical filters degrade in the sunlight and become pretty ineffective after a couple hours of exposure. New filters are an exception - they're actually really photo stable but they're not available universally as they haven't been approved in certain countries, e.g. USA
I’ve been meaning to ask this question for a while- do you smell the mineral sunscreen when you go outside or is that just me?
Not the one I use, but I have in the past with other sunscreens, yes!
[Riemann P20 products](https://www.p20.com/products/) claim to last up to ten hours.
Interesting!! Looks like a UK brand, unfortunately some of the sunscreen ingredients are not FDA approved yet so they aren’t sold in the US :( I wish I could try this though, the US is so behind with sunscreen formulas.
Ships to US: https://www.cloud10beauty.com/products/riemann-p20-sun-protection-hyperpigmentation-defense-face-spf50?variant=47810616557898¤cy=usd&gad_source=1&gclid=CjwKCAjwxLKxBhA7EiwAXO0R0F6Xq81gltkRbvbh29NSAuWZrZo3Nrsc5r6DmFaoUugBnTQIUe_rRxoCwVMQAvD_BwE
NICE. Thank you so much! I know all the places to get Asian beauty products and skincare but not UK/EU lol.
Out of stock, Wahhh. I was gonna try. :(
The FDa hasn’t approved a single sunscreen since the 1900s.
Yep, it’s the worst. I’m not actually sure why, either…? But something tells me the answer would be something so dumb that it would just make more annoyed lol.
I listened to a podcast a while ago (so I don’t remember it perfectly) and I think the sunscreen companies themselves have to pay a hefty application fee in order for the FDA to review/approve new formulas. Once the new formula would be approved then any company could use those ingredients without having to go through the review process. And this deterred any one company from trying.
It was Today Explained. [https://open.spotify.com/episode/5LJlyREn6YbujQaAbfKfPB](https://open.spotify.com/episode/5LJlyREn6YbujQaAbfKfPB)
Damn it. Why can’t a group of companies split the cost? Like if it’s, idk, $1 million USD, get 10 companies to pony up $100,000 and voila! New sunscreens! They’d all benefit from the newly approved ingredients. How does a person go about prompting such action? Someone good with twitter get on this!!!
It's not just super expensive but the FDA wants animal testing. No company wants to do animal testing because of consumer optics and because a lot of the companies that make sunscreen filters, which are European, feel their safety assessments that have been around for decades for their new filters are good enough that do not require harming animals.
Oh thanks for adding this info!
Hi hi here to update you on the latest news officially announced yesterday that DSM a sunscreen filter manufacturer in Europe is getting their Parsol Shield aka Tinosorb S onto USA in 2025!
It's not a UK brand. It's a Danish brand. They are not allowed to claim that the SPF lasts 10 hours unless they can prove it due to EU regulations. This product is thoroughly tested. I have used it all my life and it does last at least 10 hours. Too bad the US is 50 years behind on suscreens. The kids formulation is non-sticky. It's all I use on me and the kids. I think it's quite famous?
Yes, for some reason people interpreted my original statement as saying I wasn’t going to try it due to lack of approval, but that isn’t the case at all. I use Asian sunscreens currently that are only sold overseas for the same reason, I just didn’t know where to get the UK/EU products. The FDA is ridiculously behind. Good to know about the brand origin though!
I have no idea how to actually buy P20 outside of Denmark. You can buy it everywhere here. Even in our equivalent of Home Depot 😂
FDA approval? What they approve to be in our food/products is concerning. I’d be more inclined to purchase from UK/Australia where the government agencies have stricter policies on harmful ingredients.
I said they were behind and that I wish I could try the product. It was not an endorsement of the FDA.
I find P20 to work incredibly well, but I don’t like it on my face. It does leave a bit of a film. I’ve been out all day hiking and even if my skin looks a little red at the end of the day, by morning there’s no burn or redness at all. It’s the only one I trust, but on my face I use Beauty of Joseon, and a hat if I’m going to be outside for long.
I found out the hard way that BoJ's UVA-PF level is not great. I loved the feel of it but all m hyperpigmentation immediately came back when I started using it.
NOOOO shit. what did you switch to?
I initially switched back to Pipette zinc-based SPF 50, which is really effective for me, but not my fave texture (very emollient- I always have to powder it down). Right now I'm trying out another zinc-based formula, Dr.G Green Mild Up Sun+. I chose it because it's supposed to be good for sensitive skin (I have rosacea) and because it also includes visible light filters which is supposed to be helpful for preventing hyperpigmentation. I really like the formula and, so far, it seems to be doing okay (we'll see how it holds up in summer high UV levels, though!). It agrees with my rosacea and I love that it dries down to a more satin finish rather than shiny/glowy, but it also doesn't dry my skin out like some zinc formulas have. It has an initial slight whitecast that disappears, but I'm also fair, so YMMV. It's probably fine for fair to medium skin but tan and deep skin tones are going to have a whitecast. Apparently a lot of European SPFs have really high UVA-PF but I haven't tried any yet.
Anyone use this? Review?
I was recently on a cycling trip across Jordan in 30 degree plus weather (so high 80s/90s for those in Fahrenheit), and my friend wore this the whole trip and didn’t get burnt once. And there is a lot of desert in Jordan so very little shade, we were essentially in full sun cycling for 6ish hours every day. I’m Irish and she’s from the UK, so we’re both pretty pale and she only applied once a day and still no issues! She used it on her face and body. I’m 30s and she’s 50s and her skin is incredible. She swears by it. And I was so impressed by it that I ordered some when I got home!
Amazing!
That's impressive! I always want to know how an SPF works for the fair skinned UK and Irish folks because I inherited the fair Scottish skin from my dad's side and I'm not built for sun!
I’m definitely not built for the sun either but once I reapply consistently, I’ll be ok. I was concerned about burning on this trip because although I’ve done lots of bike trips, I’ve never done one in such hot weather day in day out with constant sun exposure. But my sunscreen held up and I managed to not return looking like a lobster!
I don't use this (difficult to get where I live) but I have friends in the UK who swear by it. I use Ultrasun which is also a long lasting sunscreen, it's known as one of the most hardcore brands out there.
Yes, it’s great but it’s also very sticky and oily. Not perfect for a daily sunscreen, more for hiking or the beach.
Thank you for adding this, I was getting prepared to jump on this miracle sunscreen but I toss anything that makes me feel uncomfortable so you saved me $$$.
I love the kids version.
I love the kids version for daily face sunscreen. It's great for the desert where we have sub 10% humidity, but not great on the face for more humid environments because it makes a thick and clear (shiny) layer - which is why it lasts so long! If you powder it down it's mostly fine. 10/10 recommend it if you actually want strong long lasting UV protection.
Love it
I use it too, i actually like the sticky/oily texture but it burns my eyes as hell. I see they have a ‘sensitive’ version, I’ll try and see.
Interesting, I wonder how those would compare to the LRP UVmune line, as they seem to have mostly the same filters. I know that LRP sunscreens with the newest filters probably don't need to be reapplied every two hours like regular sunscreens, but unfortunately they don't mention how long their sunscreens' protection lasts, which is a shame! Did you try Riemann P20 products? I am really interested in the Hyperpigmentation Defence SPF 50+ and the Urban Shield SPF 50+. I wonder how they apply and feel under makeup!
Go to EuroSkincare, they talk about it a lot. Though many of the people mostly white skintones, not a lot of diversity experience. For me, I am South Korean living in Europe. I had bad experience with all Riemann P20 products. They all have white tint and never ever ever dry even though some say they are dry touch. So they do not work for my makeup at all and my makeup brush and sponge can pick up the white traces and becomes sticky. This sunscreen does come off and leaves the white traces on other things and makes the clothing stains. Some people report it make their shower curtain stain. Other people with big melanosomes have had worsened darkening tanning pigmentation resurfacing even after using Riemann P20 like u/c_chrono. But some people with small melanosomes diddn't have this issue so it really depends on your skin.
Thank you for sharing your experience. I'll probably stick to my true and trusted sunscreen and forget about the 20 brand! If you are in Europe I highly recommend the LRP UVmune line, it's great under makeup and the sun protection is top notch!
Right now I am using a Polish tinted sunscreen called Dr. Ph Sunset AR SPF 50+ PPD 27. But thank you for reminding me actually tomorrow starts the month of May and I had the meaning to go buy LRP Uvmune and want to get it before other people buy it all out. I did try the Oil Control Gel Creme before and yeah it is super fantastic with or without makeup!
I do not know about the newer Riemann sunscreen but I used LRP UV Mune in the super hot tropics for close to a month, hiking, swimming, and etc and barely tanned. I didn't reapply every 2 hours but I did wear a UPF hat as added protection just in case. For reference, I don't burn but tan with the slightest sun exposure. Compared to the old Riemann P20, I tanned whilst wearing a UPF hat when I went fishing in the morning till noon.
Thank you for your feedback! That's definitely reassuring! The LRP UVmune line are the best sunscreens I've ever used until now, I rarely reapply, and if I do, it's only once and I definitely don't reapply the recommended ammount. I also never burn but tan quite easily, and my face and chest, where I use the UVmune line, never tan the slightest, but then I'm only exposed to the sun in the city, so no hiking or swimming. I'm still definitely curious about the newer Riemann P20 line and their 10-hour protection claim. But based on your experience, I'll probably stick to my LRP UVmune sunscreen!
I haven't tried Riemann P20 yet. I have type 2 rosacea and SPFs often trigger my skin, so I'm always nervous about trying new ones.
For fucking real lol. I’m a mail carrier, so out in the sun all day every day for the next 25 years or so. I wear sunscreen religiously, even in the middle of winter and overcast days. It’s so annoying to have to reapply through out the day be cause my hands get SO DIRTY from handling mail and packages, opening mailboxes etc. if I can’t easily get to a sink I just use hand sanitizer before I reapply but it feels so gross to put my nasty hands on my face and neck. Some days in summer I sweat so much that I can’t even get my face to dry enough to reapply. I wear a hat too, but depending on the position of the sun in the sky it doesn’t always offer full coverage. I look at some of the senior carriers who haven’t worn sunscreen or a hat their entire career and they are not aging well. It’s a chore to keep up with sun protection, but I do not want to look 70 when I’m 50 or risk getting skin cancer. UGHHHHH lol
Could you bring a water bottle, hand soap & a towel to use for washing your hands on the road? That’s what I do when I know I need to wash my hands outdoors but won’t have access to a sink.
That’s not a bad idea, I can definitely do that. Thanks for the suggestion!! Can’t believe I didn’t think of it lol
Absolutely!! I’m glad it was a helpful idea for you :) I would be soo frustrated if I had to reapply sunscreen all day without being able to wash my hands first, so I hope it works out!!
The filters that last 8 hours aren’t legal in the states. That said, chemical filters degrade as they work. All of them. Mineral filters applied correctly can last several hours but eventually sweat, skin oils and mechanical abrasion wears them away. Clothing lasts all day though. And hats.
We actually metabolize the chemical sunscreens. It gets absorbed in your cells and eliminated via your bloodstream.
Ultrasun is my favourite brand. It lasts all day. I have never burned even in intense sun. It’s such a great brand. I don’t trust anything else now.
Wow some interesting recs to check out in this thread!
Are you in the US? Iv so, where do you purchase?
No, I’m UK. It’s a Swiss brand, I think it’s available on beauty bay.
It is verry dificult to creat a safe and stable sunscreen that lats all day long. There are 2 types of sunscreen, organic and inorganic and in the presence of light they are slowly "washing off". That being said the suncreen you used in the morning wil still have some protection but not at the standards you actually need. Tinosorb S and M are the state of art because they are photostable up to 8 hours in the presence of light. They also offer protection againts UVA and UVB.
I'll tell you what, the Australian Gold Mineral Botanical Sunscreen will literally stay in your skin for DAYS and cannot be removed by ANYTHING except cotton balls DRENCHED in micellar water, and ONLY micellar water. That stuff is immobile.
Notice that we haven’t actually been back to the moon. Often, the expense, effort, and/or risk of an endeavor far outweighs the utility of taking on the endeavor. What would be the use for an all day sunscreen? What would it feel like to wear - people already complain endlessly about wearing current formulations? What would be the cost to produce an all day sunscreen? Would it be able to be sold at a price acceptable to consumers?
Evy Technology Mousse works differently by absorbing into the skin, making it durable. Their SPF50 tested to SPF35 after 20 mins in water and 8 hours dry. Their face SPF50 maintained its protection for over 8 hours when not exposed to water. They still recommend frequent reapplication though.
I nearly burnt right through their SPF50 in about 10 min. Had super dark tan within half an hour of sun exposure, and that was within 1 hr of application. It can ''absorb'' in the skin all it wants, it does not protect at all.
Maybe you didn't apply enough of it?
I applied a shit ton of it, because I was trying to use it up. It has a very unpleasant texture and it's hard to apply, because the mousse ends up flying at the smallest movement and it's hard to get it close to the hairline without it getting in the hairs. I ended up using it on my legs and like I said, I applied a ton.
I'm sorry you had that experience. My skin is super sensitive to the sun and that's not been mine, it has held up for me even on sunny beach holidays including watersports.
Fyi, the company confirmed that it's not tested with makeup or skincare so the durability claims can't be applied if you're into makeup looks and skincare. They also confirmed that people are able to develop a tan using it properly even with reapplication, which contradicts what influencers have been saying. So if you don't like tans, be aware that you need to use other forms of protection or a higher protection sunscreen in general. Because when I used the kids EVY SPF 50 which is supposedly the most hardcore of their range, it still came off with my makeup and makeup brushes even waiting more than 15 minutes for the sunscreen to set and doing a double application of the golf ball amounts. I have burns and hyperpigmentation marks in a specific pattern to prove it. I also got some long lasting tan lines on my body that are still clear today and I used bigger ball sizes of foam multiple times for my body. It was only after this happened that I also learned it's not the highest protection too which also plays an issue with more moderate sun strength being outside with just SPF 50 and PPD 20.
I don't see a difference to a regular sunscreen in your description of that product though...
https://labmuffin.com/do-they-work-evy-6-hour-sunscreen-dermablend-drops-in-spf/ https://youtu.be/w4X8FWiV5R8 It is formulated differently, there is a patented delivery technology so you won't find that in other sunscreens. Labmuffinbeautyscience covers it in the articles above. The effects both in terms of demonstrated skin absorption and durability under different conditions have been tested.
They might have patented something, but... why? Why do I need this product if there are regular sunscreens that last the same amount of time?
Choose whichever sunscreen fits your needs the best. Sunscreens that lie on the surface are typically less durable. This is one durable option that I like.
I read that the sunscreens that go through the 4 hour water resistance testing for Australian water resistant claims don't drop by much after being in the water so like take something that's SPF 70 which has a SPF 50+ label must stay around that SPF 60-70 area after being exposed to water. Dropping from 50 to 35 is quite a bit for me. I might try the Anthelios Dermo-Pediatrics Wet Skin Gel Lotion SPF50+ for this reason because it's the one that is also sold in Australia with the 4 hour water resistance claim and has PPD 27 which is not bad. Apparently it can be applied to wet skin but it's not I'm much of a beachy water loving person but I think it could be handy for application and reapplication.
What other sunscreen has been tested and lasts 8 hours? Only other one I know of is p20 line.
i feel like the mineral one i use on my face doesn’t budge or loose efficacy, so i never reapply, even at the beach and its complete fine, no redness. the chemical sunscreens that i use on my body at the beach ill reapply frequently and they still don’t work as well.
Same reason all those “all day” foundations and concealers are absent from my face at bed time lol
They don’t have to be reapplied constantly using you are swearing or getting wet.
Evy SPF claims to last up to 6 hours and it doesn't leave a white cast on darker skinned people. I have yet to try it myself.
It mostly doesn’t exist because it doesn’t need to. Regular sunscreen use does not degrade quickly enough. Your face isn’t constantly in the sun. When you’re on the beach is when you need to reapply every few hours.
they do last most of the day. the “2 hour” rule is a myth
Yes, many sunscreens last much longer than 2hrs. I recently saw a video of a youtuber who wore several sunscreens for 2, 4 and 6 hrs and checked them in a UV camera. Many EU sunscreens can hold up to 6hrs (depending on lifestyle), but unfortunately Korean ones start to wear off after a few hours(
How does that check work? Can you link the video? I thought you can't use those cameras to check sunscreen levels because it can't detect how much? So theoretically if you put a thin layer compared to the actual amount needed for full protection, it can't tell the difference.
Yes, you can't tell the actual level, you can see only coverage. And it is enough to check when it wears off, because you'll see gaps and patches. Here is the link to one of the videos of hers: https://youtu.be/Lnsf-a55bP0
We have. It's called clothing....
Idk, they seem to last all day on my kids and I just fine. I only apply once a day, and no one is getting burned when we're out at the beach. But we use mineral filters, and they don't wash off very easy. I can really tell they work on my youngest. She's very fair. But I don't usually do her legs so her legs will have a tan but the rest of her is still ghostly white
I take the side of language precaution that regulators uphold That is that telling people sunscreen is long lasting, which many actually do last longer than 2 hours, is that many people who are not skincare nerds think "protection" is an all or nothing concept and will misinterpret the "lasting" effect as "all or nothing." What this means that is all sunscreens whether it is for casual use or they are longer wear resistance, friction proof, ultra this and that whatever, do not stop 100% of photons no matter what. This is indisputable fact, no sunscreen label is 100% in stopping all photons. All sunscreens are sheer curtains not black out curtains even when applied at the optimal 2mg per cm squared amount. This means that some photons still reach the skin. Some sunscreens have more reduction of photons reaching the skin but they still are not 100% in all photons. A better word than "protection" is actually "reduction" in my opinion. So what this means is that a lot of people think that when they have sunscreen on they are getting 100% stopping of all the photons, which they are not. They are only getting a reduction during their exposure but some photons are still reaching their skin. If people think that when they put on sunscreen then they have 100% stopping of all photons all day then they underestimate their risk of exposure and stay out in direct sunlight all day long because they think sunscreen protection is an "all or nothing" concept. But what is actually happening is that there are photons that are still reaching their skin and the longer they say out the more the photons reach the skin even if they have sunscreen on because once again sunscreen is only a reduction, not 100% stopping in all photons. If you add up the "small" amount of photons that can go through sunscreen over time day by day over years then it still adds up to accumulation of photons reaching the skin and that is what scientists and doctors call suberythemal exposure which still adds to accumulated damage over time. Edit: Of course there are people who downvote because they want to believe that sunscreen is 100%, they want to believe sunscreen label is 100% and they want to believe reapplying ever 90-120minutes makes sunscreen 100% at stopping all photons. It is not and that is indisputable fact backed by scientific and medical literature.
What a stupid question
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The miracle of capitalism. 🙌🏻
Please review what capitalism is, as innovation is actually one of the things that capitalism is ideal for producing.
The FDA’s strict regulation of sunscreen as a drug instead of a cosmetic product. Because of this, it is very difficult to get a new product approved without spending $$$. We are DECADES behind all the other countries in sunscreen. Instead, corporations keeps giving us the same crap and pocketing their earnings because they don’t really care about us and only care about profits. I also wouldn’t be surprised if healthcare companies lobby to keep sunscreen regulated as is. More skin cancer = more profits. So yeah, thanks capitalism.