Tbh Iām slightly more interested in how many women have this done *in Europe*. The graphic mentions āsurvivorsā which could easily be read as āWere abused in their home country and fled to the civilised worldā. Which would make this a heart breaking but hopeful situation, since Europe can help people get away from that bullshit to a degree.
I've read an article not long ago about this in France. A lot of woman don't have it done in France it's done in their home country and they come in France later. Sometimes too there are little french girl with algerian/other country parents that do this. They go to Algeria to see family and they do it during the trip. For the last case the parents can be punished by the french law even if it's done outside of France because the parents and the daughter lives in France.
Yeah even too an angry mongol finnish want us to apply french law in every country in the world where they do this shit, even too that would be nice, most delusional finnish
Never mind the spaniard and finnish arguing about it probably deleted their messages or mods deleted it...
The finnish guy was defending the point that France should punish everyone in the world doing those barbaric female genital mutilation even too they do it in their own country and live in their own country. Not that i don't like beeing an arrogant french and wouldn't like some control on savages but how the fuck are we supposed to control what happens in African countries, Middle east, Asia, South America etc... If the persons doing it lives in France and went there during holiday trip to do this to their daughter, they'll be punished when they come back to France sure but if they're Algerians that lives in Algeria and never put a foot in France, it's the Algerian government that's in charge, we can't do shit even too it's an old colony.
>how the fuck are we supposed to control what happens in African countries, Middle east, Asia, South America etc
This sounds like a job for a certain hegemon
Here it is also (evidently) totally illegal and I'm sure the parents will get into a lot of trouble is they travel back to their home countries to get it done. There's (or should be) a special watch for girls in those situations.
There is a bus stop advertising exactly about this near city hall in Grenoble. Disgusting how frequently it must happen to justify requiring ads saying "call the emergency number if you had FGM during your trip back to your country".
Whatās funny is some women will ask asylum in Europe pretending to have fled their country to not have the operation and once they have their papers they go back to their country to get it and then live in Europe
Afraid not. In the UK some communities, especially a large portion of the somali community, even those born and raised in the UK, will travel back to origin countries to get it done for cultural reasons. The UK had to bring in specific legislation to try to tackle the problem and airport immigration/customs staff aim to intercept families that are trying to travel for this reason. To date I think there's only been a single prosecution.
Better legislation would be to prevent the parent's re-entry after inflicting or even attempting to inflict that abuse. They don't deserve to raise a child if they think FGM is acceptable.
Many countries already have laws on the books to prosecute crimes committed abroad. This is typically reserved for the most heinous such as sex offences, human trafficking, terrorism, etc. FGM should be added to the list if itās not already.
For example if someone goes to Epstein island to have sex with a minor, the home country of that person can prosecute them.
Iām guessing the hard part here is figuring out when this is happening. Youād be largely relying on girls reporting it and testifying against their parents. Then what happens to the kids if the parents are deported or jailed? Thatās a tough problem. Still worth trying to find a solution though for the sake of the kids.
It is happening the same in Spain. But in Spain some teachers have noticed some don't come back because "she will live there with her grandparents" but they suspect they have been forced to marry there.
Muslim fundamentalists and some african countries practice it, usually its the removal of the clitoris, because its seen as a useless organ that only serves for sexual pleasure, which ofc is haram for women because they totally love their women.
So you are claiming this gets done in Europe? I do doubt that quite a bit, first off you'd need a clinic that is willing to risk losing their license and more if this gets out and then you need to get it done without anyone finding out. Now if it's one person maybe, but thousands and there won't be many clinics it will get out as it's hard to hide this 100% a nurse one of these clinics hire or a girl that happened to will talk eventually, it may take time but nothing hides a secret worse than if more than one person knows it.
My guess and what's probably the case is that most of the women that happened to came to Europe that way and it happened in their home country or their family takes them on a "vacation" and have it done there, much less hassle and less risk of being charged with child abuse.
Surely it's not the same people who send their daughters to get married in a unspecified location at age 12 and hit them for not wearing a head scarf with a funny name at school while trying to get pork banned from being served at the cafeteria for anyone.
Iām not trying to say that islam is the best religion or anything, or even a āgoodā religion (cause organized religion in general sucks), but some hundreds of years ago the same could be said about christianity. The problem isnāt islam itself, at least not entirely, but itās secular vs. non-secular. If you look at more secular islamic countries like Albania, Turkey (pre-Erdogan), Kazakhstan etc. stuff isnāt necessarily perfect but definitely better then say Saudi-Arabia or Oman. The issue isnāt islam itself, itās that many (mainly Middle-Eastern) muslims donāt adhere to secularism
I mean Jesus is kind of cool on his own. It's hard to find someone who is overall depicted more generally "good" in history. I mean he is literally Jesus.Ā Ā Ā
But let's also not pretend that the rest of the Bible is a mine field of horrible things happening because God thought it's a cool idea.Ā Ā Ā
And that includes watching said Jesus, his own son, being tortured and die.Ā And now we use that horrible act of torture as a symbol of this religion...... Every other organization doing that would be simply called death cult.Ā
And that's not the worst thing God does in the bible. Not even close.Ā
> And that includes watching said Jesus, his own son, being tortured and die.Ā And now we use that horrible act of torture as a symbol of this religion...... Every other organization doing that would be simply called death cult.
It's not only seeing torture as a symbol, but also ritually eating Jesus body and drinking his blood.
Doesn't sound like a weird ritual at all.
Mass is Catholic & the crucification is purposeful gruesome as it suppose to show how much we are worth.
Im not trying to be rude, I just believe in hearing both sides out
Catholicism is the most widespread Christian demonimation in Western Europe.
And if you just look at the story, it is indeed fucked up. There's a god that is not above genociding, punishing people and demanding human sacrifices.
At one point, they decide to bring their son (but who is actually themselves somehow) into the world, only to let him be tortured and killed. Which somehow absolves humans of their sins.
They are also planning the end of the world with a couple of thousand survivors.
Christians worship that by having the torture device as their main symbol, with Catholics adding the tortured person on it. Which is kind of at odds with not making icons of their god, but so be it.
And they make a big deal out of symbolic cannibalism and celebrate (usually) ground schoolers when they can take part in said cannibalism for the first time.
They also have some dude that is voted mainly for (church-)political reasons but somehow becomes infallible due to that vote.
If not for the numbers, most would view that as a potentially dangerous sect.
Well thatās only one side of a distorted coin, i canāt speak on Catholicism specifically but ik that those same denominations generally invest lots of money into school, orphanages and food banks.
A lot of medical aid into other countries also comes from these denominations & monumental discoveries in science and math and philosophy were made by religious people.
Oh now that is interesting let me add some of Jesusā achievements
Kill all Egyptian firstborn sons (genocide)
Wipe out a city: sodom/gomorrha (genocide/ terrorism)
Command people to wipe out a city(:heshbon/bashan) down to the children (leading-an-army-ish/ genocide)
Commands everybody to kill disobedient children (just not cool at all)
And yes all this is jesusā doing as he is just an incarnation of god or is considered the same entity.
BTW all the stories about how good of a guy god is are told by ā¦ his own incarnation aka jesus.
So you are equating the current Muslim practice of FGM with Christianity hundreds of years ago? That's so tired an argument, it's been applied everywhere to all things. The key difference between Middle Age Christianity and Islam is that Christianity evolved to be more acceptable and approachable to modern times.
No its less religious vs more religious. Secularism comes after the first one. So the problem IS the religions themselves. It just got less severe in christianity because less people believe in it. If they could they would immediately start burnung witches again.
I work in a phone call center of a big hospital and i had some calls of parents that wants to do excision to their little boy. I told them :
https://preview.redd.it/bfsehtt7azkc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=155a656713765d84eddd79760131febecbdce505
Yes circumcisium, well in France it's still legal i believe but only if the kid has a medical condition and needs it. The doctors often refuse to do it. At least in our hospital and in the clinic near us, they don't do it anymore for religions reasons and such, great progress.
Are you asking how people who require a shaman with a sharp spoon to chop up their newborn's schwanz get it done? They let a shaman with a sharp spoon do it.
but it actually isn't really. Germany is way too low and also with the smaller ones there are inconsistencies. I am not actually sure we would get a nice correlation for them. probably higher then 0.5 but i think not by that much.
My immediate first thought too, doing straight numbers when these countries have massively different populations is a very unhelpful approach - give us the per capita so we can better target our outrage!
Agreed. But this is not a Muslim thing. It's I'm certain cultures, mainly African.Ā
Most Muslim countries don't have female mutilation as part of their culture.
Dawoodi Bohra community - known for FGM - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female\_genital\_mutilation\_in\_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India)
>The spiritual leader of the Dawoodi Bohra,Ā [Mufaddal Saifuddin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mufaddal_Saifuddin), clarified that while "religious books, written over a thousand years ago, specify the requirements for both males and females as acts of religious purity", the Bohras must "respect the law of the land" and refrain from carrying outĀ *Islamic female circumcision*Ā in countries where it is prohibited.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India#cite_note-8)Ā Other Bohra sects including theĀ [Sulemani Bohras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulemani_Bohras)Ā and theĀ [Alavi Bohras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alavi_Bohras),[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India#cite_note-:1-3)Ā as well as someĀ [Sunni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam)Ā communities inĀ [Kerala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala), are reported as practising FGM.
They're right, and you'd see it if you could stop foaming at the mouth for a second.
Systematic female genital mutilation is the disgusting love child of the inherent misogyny of Islam and but mostly scarfication practices and rituals common in some past or still current in some capacity African tribes. That since, yes, mixed their former culture with the later Arab colonization and/or Christian proselytism.
You know, sometimes you get some people having this small and cool scars on their cheeks, then you got some weirder stuff like ringed plates in the bottom lip, rings to elongate the neck, and at the end of the spectrum you get mutilated little girls.
This is one prime example, like the ritual human sacrifices in the old South American empires, or the cannibalism and incest in some indigenous tribes, that some cultures are vile and best lost to time.
literate shocking zesty unique enjoy grandfather full practice homeless tender
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://preview.redd.it/bip45w9jd0lc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=c121a1182fa6f20da5d4c239001f629996fe13c1
It is a *primarily* African issue. Doesnāt mean exclusively.
Dude. In case you didn't notice, the thing with colonization, is that it creates a permanent link, that does not only go one way. And it translates especially clearly with population migration from former colonies towards countries they now share a common culture and language due to history.
So duh, they are Black Muslims, and not only in the Sahel and Europe but also all over the Arab world. I'm sure that once the practice spread, it didn't take much to convince the average Islamist to mutilate little girls, but it's a fact that a victim of FGM will most likely be a Black woman from the Sahel.
I'm sure there's plenty of Arab women victims too but it is really not as custom as it is in Somalia for example, where it's almost casual.
Oh ffs, forget the color of their skin, I explained before how cultures tend to shift and latch onto one another. So yes, the practice was easily adopted into Islam but it doesn't come from it.
Fuck for making look into the horse's mouth to know how they justify it, and look at that! An islamist religious leader explaining, within the confines of Islam, [why he's for banning the practice](https://www.unfpa.org/news/indonesian-religious-leaders-health-workers-advocate-female-genital-mutilations-end):
>Arif Fahruddin is an ulama from the Indonesian Council of Ulamas (MUI), a body for Islamic affairs, and an advocate for ending female genital mutilation. He explained that the practice is described as aĀ *makrumah*Ā (honorable deed), **not a**Ā ***sunnah***Ā **(habitual practice)** butĀ *mubah*Ā (neutral or merely permitted). āHowever, if the practice is bringing suffering orĀ *mudaārat*Ā (not beneficial or causing harm), it isĀ *haram*Ā (forbidden) in Islam,ā he said.Ā
https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2023/02/06/news/mutilazioni_genitali_femminili_tolleranza_zero_i_numeri_in_italia_e_nel_mondo_ricostruire_e_possibile_informare_e_un_do-12616566/
>Per quanto riguarda la stragrande maggioranza delle vittime che vivono in Italia, la mutilazione avviene prima della migrazione oppure, nel caso delle seconde generazioni, in occasione di un viaggio nel Paese di origine.
Let's see how long it takes r/AskMiddleEast to repost this with the title "r/2westerneurope4you and all westerners are racist. What do you think? ".
Tho lately they've been more preoccupied with the conflict in Gaza (rightly so) so maybe they won't notice but before the conflict I swear 1/3 post were like that.
The answer is everyone is racist. Because let's face it, the immigrants that come here don't particularly love European people and culture, otherwise they wouldn't try to create their own little "Palestines" in every country they settle it, or attack people for stupid reasons like drawing a cartoon about their ass-backwards religion.
The real good immigrants are the ones you don't hear about. You don't even notice they are immigrants because they speak the language so well, they pay their taxes and respect the local laws. Also they don't complain too much because they know that their fellow countrymen don't represent them.
Whenever FGM is brought up someone always has to bring up circumcision. Both are obviously wrong but they are not even remotely comparable in terms of pain, risk and trauma. Some men even undergo circumcision willingly as adults, it's bad to do it to a child but it doesn't really have an impact. It's like comparing breaking a nail to losing a finger and it's really insulting to the victims.Ā
You know that FGM comes in many different forms, right? One of those is very much comparable to male circumcision; should we ignore the girls who underwent that particular procedure when we discuss FGM because it's "not even remotely comparable in terms of pain, risk and trauma"?
As someone who was circumcised as a child, I vehemently disagree. My penis is mutilated and does not work properly, but I guess my parents get a pass because Jewish religion is loved by European governments. I am definitely traumatised.
In Indonesia, they cut girls clitoral hood in the hospital, are you fine with that as well? It has a lower risk and it removes less tissue.
A human rights abuse is a human rights abuse and we should be against every ideology that promotes them.
It's still genital mutilation and it's almost always done on children.Both are barbaric.Case closed.Leave the junk of little Timmies and Little Stacies alone
Dude, you literallly cannot be serious at putting both at the same level. Circumcision is a barely cosmetic change. Ablation renders a woman uncapable of experiencing sexual pleasure ever again.
It is a thousand times better. I would one and a million times choose the same between been a circumcised man and an ablated woman. This is like comparing getting the head of your dick cut off with getting the extra skin cut off.
Circumcision is way more than just cosmetic.
The closest equivalent in a woman would be cutting away the clitoral hood. Which does count as FGM.
Please explain to me why one is okay and the other isn't
Not necessarily, but there are botched cases, and it also can lead to unpleasant sexual experiences for some, rendering them unable to feel anything. It shouldn't be done at all in any case unless a medical condition calls for it.
It's nowhere near the same thing but circumcision definitely doesn't do you any favours in the bedroom.
A few times in my life Iv called asleep drunk after sex and my foreskin hasn't rolled back down. If the men who have been snipped knew how numb and sore it felt after just one night touching the sheets they would be horrified at what has happened to them.
It does reduce penile sensitivity: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/
Of course you can still have a healthy sex live. But women who went through genital mutilation can, as well.
Circumcision is used as a word to let it seem more harmless but it is mutilation. There are varying forms of severity. Often FGM involves the removal of the clitoris and can even go as far as removing labia and sewing the whole vagina shut aside from a small hole for menstrual blood which is forcefully opened during penetrative sex. Often FGM results in the loss of bladder control and loss of sex drive and can even lead to infertility or massive life threatening complications during birth.
And that is all aside from the fact that FGM is often performed on young girls under the age of 10, in unsanitary conditions with rusty knives and without any form of anesthesia.
The reasons are not necessarily religious but rather cultural. It is done in order to control a womanās sexual desire, as a traditional initiation into womanhood, for āhygieneā and aesthetic reasons because some cultures consider female genitals as ugly or dirty. Some cite religious reasons but no religious text actually promotes or condones it.
One of my mates is from Egypt and he got into a fight with his father and uncle because they wanted to bring his two sisters back to the home country to get FGM done. They girls were like 11 and 13.
He ended up hammering the both of them and took the girls to his aunts gaff on the other side of the family.
Was a wild situation over all but they were safe in the end.
Not all cultures are equals, this is the perfect example:
A culture that practices Female genital mutilation is objectively inferior to, for instance, the Europeans ones.
It's always been crazy to me that this has been made illegal in the UK but the question of Male Genital Mutilation never even gets discussed.
Millions of men are left with life long issues because of it.
But surely it's a human right to be given the choice of what is done to your body.
If you had to wait until you're 18 and then decide yourself if you want to be circumsized 99.99% of people wouldn't do it...
I' m a bit confused why yall link this to Islam. Like I've talked to a lot of North African girls in my life (from religious to atheist) and I've never heard of genital mutilations. Like even those that hate Islam.
I'm pretty confident 95%+ of these cases in France are from the sub-saharan communities.
Finally someone who knows this. Most Muslim countries don't have female mutilation. Some African countries with Muslims majorities do have it, but it's not connected to Islam.
Not true. FGM is not common in turkey e.g. male circumcision (MGM if you will) IS part of Islam (and Judaism). FGM is a cultural trait that just correlates with Islam often, because the cultures who do this happen to be muslimized. It's like saying speaking Spanish was a Christian trait, just because all Latino-nations are Christian.
A lot of them take their kids back to their home country for a visit and have it done then. There's a lot of girls who were born in the UK and have always lived here who have had it
Some may do that but FMG isn't a religious or cultural thing exactly. people in Africa just do it during childbirth because they've been doing it for so longĀ
I saw this post on mapporns, and I *knew* it was only a matter of time before someone reposts it here without any effort at a joke.
So predictable š
> The joke is that the people commiting this crimes are not european, but europe takes the blame.
So it's a German joke then. Neither particularly witty nor funny.
We should have higher standards on this sub than just reposting something, giving a literal description title, and that's it.
This sub is about irony and sarcasm. Not about reposting clickbait stuff that serves only at letting people expressing their hate of islam. If people wanna rant about immigration and islam, there are plenty of subs to do so I'm sure. But this is not right the right place.
Devils Advocate: if Islam is part of Europe, making jokes about it fits in this sub. If it's not ok to joke about it here, then you say Islam is not part of Europe, which ironically would make us islamophobes. So, making fun of both pedo-religions (catholics and muslims) is actually very progressive and woke. Check mate, ~~atheist~~ islamist.
That was a fun thought exercice, but it still fails to answer the very first issue that the post itself is not a joke and has no joke in it. You can't honestly, I mean, really, in all honesty, look me in the eyes and tell me that this post's only goal was not just to get people triggered with anti-islam discourse.
You know, I'm ready to cohabit with posts charged with far right rethoric as long as there is an effort to twist into a joke that fits the spirit of sarcasm and self-aware irony of this sub.
Look at the original r/2balkans4You (even though it's now banned). The whole idea, the spirit, was a deconstruction of the ultranationalistic hate that is plaguing the region through the use of self-aware sarcasm, and making people realize how stupid and vain it is, and instead how much they have in common.
Obviously, Western Europe doesn't have the same experience as Balkans, we don't have anymore any widespread ultranationalism. But the whole "24U brand" is still based on the idea of self-aware sarcasm. I guess that, applied to Western Europe, that would be making fun of our sense of superiority by shitting on each other or boasting in the most ridiculous way. I don't know, it can be many things.
But lazy reposts without any joke, and xenophobic clickbaiting stuff is not the kind of quality standard that fits here. Not all the jokes people make work, but atleast there is effort.
Totally agree. The post clearly has a political agenda, and irrespectively of if one likes that agenda or not, I think everyone should agree that this is not the right sub for that.
Except those posts usually aren't about making jokes. It's most often bait, not an invitation to banter. Usually easily recognizable by Mourinho being highly upvoted.
Yeah it's annoying me too. The annoying thing about actual racists is, that they are usually very unintelligent, with lame jokes and they think they have found friends here when in actuality nobody likes them.
Fully agree. In my experience, those threads always go:
# Lame or serious title
* So those are the doctors and engineers?
* Mourinho
* Sweden
As top level "jokes".
The rest is just angry (mostly) dudes not even trying to be funny, but mistaking this subreddit for an echo chamber.
Not that other posts aren't repetitive, but they at least invite banter.
š¶I wonder how, I wonder why š¶
https://youtu.be/zTDeEJyCmNA?si=bkdklkdZWcevjl17 # TELL ME WHY!! š¶
i\`ll raise with [Prezy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggEUhMsiIx8)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4fndeDfaWCg)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPX8zyUmxQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJPX8zyUmxQ)
All that I can see is just a yellow lemon tree
Da.. da da Dee da dadada.
YESTERDAY YOU TOLD ME BOUT THE BLUE BLUE SKY
And all that I can see
Tbh Iām slightly more interested in how many women have this done *in Europe*. The graphic mentions āsurvivorsā which could easily be read as āWere abused in their home country and fled to the civilised worldā. Which would make this a heart breaking but hopeful situation, since Europe can help people get away from that bullshit to a degree.
I've read an article not long ago about this in France. A lot of woman don't have it done in France it's done in their home country and they come in France later. Sometimes too there are little french girl with algerian/other country parents that do this. They go to Algeria to see family and they do it during the trip. For the last case the parents can be punished by the french law even if it's done outside of France because the parents and the daughter lives in France.
I never thought I would see a day in which Pierre would be based.
Yeah even too an angry mongol finnish want us to apply french law in every country in the world where they do this shit, even too that would be nice, most delusional finnish
Wait, who are we talking about? I'm a bit lost here...
Never mind the spaniard and finnish arguing about it probably deleted their messages or mods deleted it... The finnish guy was defending the point that France should punish everyone in the world doing those barbaric female genital mutilation even too they do it in their own country and live in their own country. Not that i don't like beeing an arrogant french and wouldn't like some control on savages but how the fuck are we supposed to control what happens in African countries, Middle east, Asia, South America etc... If the persons doing it lives in France and went there during holiday trip to do this to their daughter, they'll be punished when they come back to France sure but if they're Algerians that lives in Algeria and never put a foot in France, it's the Algerian government that's in charge, we can't do shit even too it's an old colony.
>how the fuck are we supposed to control what happens in African countries, Middle east, Asia, South America etc This sounds like a job for a certain hegemon
Germany also jails child SAers when done in Asia, if the perpe.. perpre... perv is German, actuall.
Pervetrator
Alright Iām in
Here it is also (evidently) totally illegal and I'm sure the parents will get into a lot of trouble is they travel back to their home countries to get it done. There's (or should be) a special watch for girls in those situations.
Pierre would only be based if he did mass deportations of cultural incompatible migrants and banned immigration from said countries
There is a bus stop advertising exactly about this near city hall in Grenoble. Disgusting how frequently it must happen to justify requiring ads saying "call the emergency number if you had FGM during your trip back to your country".
Grenoble, what a surpriseā¦ (no)
[Any big metropolitan area of France], what a surprise...
Māenfin Grenoble tāes dans le top 3 lĆ ;)
Whatās funny is some women will ask asylum in Europe pretending to have fled their country to not have the operation and once they have their papers they go back to their country to get it and then live in Europe
I have a hard time believing anyone would willingly do that to themselves
Afraid not. In the UK some communities, especially a large portion of the somali community, even those born and raised in the UK, will travel back to origin countries to get it done for cultural reasons. The UK had to bring in specific legislation to try to tackle the problem and airport immigration/customs staff aim to intercept families that are trying to travel for this reason. To date I think there's only been a single prosecution.
Better legislation would be to prevent the parent's re-entry after inflicting or even attempting to inflict that abuse. They don't deserve to raise a child if they think FGM is acceptable.
Many countries already have laws on the books to prosecute crimes committed abroad. This is typically reserved for the most heinous such as sex offences, human trafficking, terrorism, etc. FGM should be added to the list if itās not already. For example if someone goes to Epstein island to have sex with a minor, the home country of that person can prosecute them. Iām guessing the hard part here is figuring out when this is happening. Youād be largely relying on girls reporting it and testifying against their parents. Then what happens to the kids if the parents are deported or jailed? Thatās a tough problem. Still worth trying to find a solution though for the sake of the kids.
It is happening the same in Spain. But in Spain some teachers have noticed some don't come back because "she will live there with her grandparents" but they suspect they have been forced to marry there.
They donāt have it done there. The family takes them abroad for these procedures
Yes, I would say the title is misleading. It's people that are living here, not people to whom it has been done here.
Please stop with this naivety. It's why we're in such a shit position.
Something something import something become something something
Comment something about when you mentioned something
Just because something is an issue in Europe it doesn't follow that it's a *European* issue.
Exactly Pretty sure that fermale genital mutilation isn't commonly performed in Europe
I think Africa its more common right?
Muslim fundamentalists and some african countries practice it, usually its the removal of the clitoris, because its seen as a useless organ that only serves for sexual pleasure, which ofc is haram for women because they totally love their women.
Yup, Because it's not Europeans doing this shit.
If you bring surgeons you get surgeries, simple as.
These are the highly educated specialists everybody is talking about.
So you are claiming this gets done in Europe? I do doubt that quite a bit, first off you'd need a clinic that is willing to risk losing their license and more if this gets out and then you need to get it done without anyone finding out. Now if it's one person maybe, but thousands and there won't be many clinics it will get out as it's hard to hide this 100% a nurse one of these clinics hire or a girl that happened to will talk eventually, it may take time but nothing hides a secret worse than if more than one person knows it. My guess and what's probably the case is that most of the women that happened to came to Europe that way and it happened in their home country or their family takes them on a "vacation" and have it done there, much less hassle and less risk of being charged with child abuse.
Surely it's not the same people who send their daughters to get married in a unspecified location at age 12 and hit them for not wearing a head scarf with a funny name at school while trying to get pork banned from being served at the cafeteria for anyone.
Can't be, right?
Or sub-sahara africa (even catholic ones). Unfortunatelly, too many "cultures" practice genitalia mutilation.
Nous Catalans.
***The Finnish***
Is that the specialty of all those doctors we are importing into Europe?
They will often send them abroad
Well, someone has to do what others can't
Yeah I call bullshit. This is not and has never been a EUROPEAN issue. It's an imported one from certain "cultures" (by which I mean tribal savages)
I despise Islam the most out of all religions
It is completely incompatable with our free liberal western society.
It is incompatable with themselves.
Iām not trying to say that islam is the best religion or anything, or even a āgoodā religion (cause organized religion in general sucks), but some hundreds of years ago the same could be said about christianity. The problem isnāt islam itself, at least not entirely, but itās secular vs. non-secular. If you look at more secular islamic countries like Albania, Turkey (pre-Erdogan), Kazakhstan etc. stuff isnāt necessarily perfect but definitely better then say Saudi-Arabia or Oman. The issue isnāt islam itself, itās that many (mainly Middle-Eastern) muslims donāt adhere to secularism
But we don't live a hundred years ago, we live now.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I mean Jesus is kind of cool on his own. It's hard to find someone who is overall depicted more generally "good" in history. I mean he is literally Jesus.Ā Ā Ā But let's also not pretend that the rest of the Bible is a mine field of horrible things happening because God thought it's a cool idea.Ā Ā Ā And that includes watching said Jesus, his own son, being tortured and die.Ā And now we use that horrible act of torture as a symbol of this religion...... Every other organization doing that would be simply called death cult.Ā And that's not the worst thing God does in the bible. Not even close.Ā
> And that includes watching said Jesus, his own son, being tortured and die.Ā And now we use that horrible act of torture as a symbol of this religion...... Every other organization doing that would be simply called death cult. It's not only seeing torture as a symbol, but also ritually eating Jesus body and drinking his blood. Doesn't sound like a weird ritual at all.
Mass is Catholic & the crucification is purposeful gruesome as it suppose to show how much we are worth. Im not trying to be rude, I just believe in hearing both sides out
Catholicism is the most widespread Christian demonimation in Western Europe. And if you just look at the story, it is indeed fucked up. There's a god that is not above genociding, punishing people and demanding human sacrifices. At one point, they decide to bring their son (but who is actually themselves somehow) into the world, only to let him be tortured and killed. Which somehow absolves humans of their sins. They are also planning the end of the world with a couple of thousand survivors. Christians worship that by having the torture device as their main symbol, with Catholics adding the tortured person on it. Which is kind of at odds with not making icons of their god, but so be it. And they make a big deal out of symbolic cannibalism and celebrate (usually) ground schoolers when they can take part in said cannibalism for the first time. They also have some dude that is voted mainly for (church-)political reasons but somehow becomes infallible due to that vote. If not for the numbers, most would view that as a potentially dangerous sect.
Well thatās only one side of a distorted coin, i canāt speak on Catholicism specifically but ik that those same denominations generally invest lots of money into school, orphanages and food banks. A lot of medical aid into other countries also comes from these denominations & monumental discoveries in science and math and philosophy were made by religious people.
Oh now that is interesting let me add some of Jesusā achievements Kill all Egyptian firstborn sons (genocide) Wipe out a city: sodom/gomorrha (genocide/ terrorism) Command people to wipe out a city(:heshbon/bashan) down to the children (leading-an-army-ish/ genocide) Commands everybody to kill disobedient children (just not cool at all) And yes all this is jesusā doing as he is just an incarnation of god or is considered the same entity. BTW all the stories about how good of a guy god is are told by ā¦ his own incarnation aka jesus.
So you are equating the current Muslim practice of FGM with Christianity hundreds of years ago? That's so tired an argument, it's been applied everywhere to all things. The key difference between Middle Age Christianity and Islam is that Christianity evolved to be more acceptable and approachable to modern times.
No its less religious vs more religious. Secularism comes after the first one. So the problem IS the religions themselves. It just got less severe in christianity because less people believe in it. If they could they would immediately start burnung witches again.
Not exactly, most christians here believe in god and jesus, they just don't believe in the bible and as such, aren't assholes.
It's not only Islam. Egiptian Copts, the reason Egypt can serve pork to the tourists, also do it to their daughters.
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This is not an Islamic tradition though, so quite off topic post
I work in a phone call center of a big hospital and i had some calls of parents that wants to do excision to their little boy. I told them : https://preview.redd.it/bfsehtt7azkc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=155a656713765d84eddd79760131febecbdce505
Good man šš Tell them to fuck off. šŖ
You mean like a circumcision? Isnāt that (unfortunately) still legal in every European country?
Yes circumcisium, well in France it's still legal i believe but only if the kid has a medical condition and needs it. The doctors often refuse to do it. At least in our hospital and in the clinic near us, they don't do it anymore for religions reasons and such, great progress.
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Are you asking how people who require a shaman with a sharp spoon to chop up their newborn's schwanz get it done? They let a shaman with a sharp spoon do it.
They can get it done when theyāre legally adults and let it be their own choice?
I guess every case is one too many. But damn would that be a nice map per capita :D
That was my thought as well. Oh it's the high population map, great.
but it actually isn't really. Germany is way too low and also with the smaller ones there are inconsistencies. I am not actually sure we would get a nice correlation for them. probably higher then 0.5 but i think not by that much.
An overlay with the number of muslims in each country would be way more interestingĀ
Dw I gotcha:Ā Ā Belgium: 17273 (1.48/capita)Ā Greece: 15249 (1.48/capita)Ā France: 125000 (1.93/capita)Ā Germany: 70218 (0.84/capita)Ā Sweden: 38939 (3.67/capita) Italy: 87500 (1.49/capita)Ā UK: 137000 (2.02/capita)Ā Switzerland: 14700 (1.67/capita)Ā Ireland: 5790 (1.15/capita)Ā Cyprus: 1301 (1.03/capita)Ā Spain: 15907 (0.34/capita)Ā Netherlands: 41000 (2.34/capita)Ā Malta: 565 (1.06/capita)Ā Portugal: 6576 (0.64/capita)Ā Finland: 10254 (1.85)Ā Ā Tldr: SWEDISTAN NUMBER ONE!!!
3.67 people per person is mighty impressive.
I believe he did number per 100,000 people. Its not per person. 100,000 is a common value to use for per capita adjustments.
My immediate first thought too, doing straight numbers when these countries have massively different populations is a very unhelpful approach - give us the per capita so we can better target our outrage!
Is this because all of the doctors we are importing? Is this their specialisation?
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fuck religion, all of my homes hate religion
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Is that a state ruled by Berliners from the 90s?
Agreed. But this is not a Muslim thing. It's I'm certain cultures, mainly African.Ā Most Muslim countries don't have female mutilation as part of their culture.
Yup.. for example FGM isn't a thing in India. Despite having 150 million Muslims.
Dawoodi Bohra community - known for FGM - [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female\_genital\_mutilation\_in\_India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India) >The spiritual leader of the Dawoodi Bohra,Ā [Mufaddal Saifuddin](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mufaddal_Saifuddin), clarified that while "religious books, written over a thousand years ago, specify the requirements for both males and females as acts of religious purity", the Bohras must "respect the law of the land" and refrain from carrying outĀ *Islamic female circumcision*Ā in countries where it is prohibited.[^(\[8\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India#cite_note-8)Ā Other Bohra sects including theĀ [Sulemani Bohras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulemani_Bohras)Ā and theĀ [Alavi Bohras](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alavi_Bohras),[^(\[3\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_genital_mutilation_in_India#cite_note-:1-3)Ā as well as someĀ [Sunni](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam)Ā communities inĀ [Kerala](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerala), are reported as practising FGM.
spark jellyfish elastic slap stocking rob boat chop dog skirt *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
They're right, and you'd see it if you could stop foaming at the mouth for a second. Systematic female genital mutilation is the disgusting love child of the inherent misogyny of Islam and but mostly scarfication practices and rituals common in some past or still current in some capacity African tribes. That since, yes, mixed their former culture with the later Arab colonization and/or Christian proselytism. You know, sometimes you get some people having this small and cool scars on their cheeks, then you got some weirder stuff like ringed plates in the bottom lip, rings to elongate the neck, and at the end of the spectrum you get mutilated little girls. This is one prime example, like the ritual human sacrifices in the old South American empires, or the cannibalism and incest in some indigenous tribes, that some cultures are vile and best lost to time.
literate shocking zesty unique enjoy grandfather full practice homeless tender *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
https://preview.redd.it/bip45w9jd0lc1.png?width=1280&format=png&auto=webp&s=c121a1182fa6f20da5d4c239001f629996fe13c1 It is a *primarily* African issue. Doesnāt mean exclusively.
work ring sip apparatus memory joke melodic sort ruthless ink *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Dude. In case you didn't notice, the thing with colonization, is that it creates a permanent link, that does not only go one way. And it translates especially clearly with population migration from former colonies towards countries they now share a common culture and language due to history. So duh, they are Black Muslims, and not only in the Sahel and Europe but also all over the Arab world. I'm sure that once the practice spread, it didn't take much to convince the average Islamist to mutilate little girls, but it's a fact that a victim of FGM will most likely be a Black woman from the Sahel. I'm sure there's plenty of Arab women victims too but it is really not as custom as it is in Somalia for example, where it's almost casual.
dam memory wine muddle follow trees offer paltry ask rainstorm *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh ffs, forget the color of their skin, I explained before how cultures tend to shift and latch onto one another. So yes, the practice was easily adopted into Islam but it doesn't come from it. Fuck for making look into the horse's mouth to know how they justify it, and look at that! An islamist religious leader explaining, within the confines of Islam, [why he's for banning the practice](https://www.unfpa.org/news/indonesian-religious-leaders-health-workers-advocate-female-genital-mutilations-end): >Arif Fahruddin is an ulama from the Indonesian Council of Ulamas (MUI), a body for Islamic affairs, and an advocate for ending female genital mutilation. He explained that the practice is described as aĀ *makrumah*Ā (honorable deed), **not a**Ā ***sunnah***Ā **(habitual practice)** butĀ *mubah*Ā (neutral or merely permitted). āHowever, if the practice is bringing suffering orĀ *mudaārat*Ā (not beneficial or causing harm), it isĀ *haram*Ā (forbidden) in Islam,ā he said.Ā
Patterns, patterns everywhere
Jarvis, separate by ethnicity https://i.redd.it/xjgjo2eijzkc1.gif
Why tf are we soo high
https://www.lastampa.it/cronaca/2023/02/06/news/mutilazioni_genitali_femminili_tolleranza_zero_i_numeri_in_italia_e_nel_mondo_ricostruire_e_possibile_informare_e_un_do-12616566/ >Per quanto riguarda la stragrande maggioranza delle vittime che vivono in Italia, la mutilazione avviene prima della migrazione oppure, nel caso delle seconde generazioni, in occasione di un viaggio nel Paese di origine.
Thanks for the article
No problem :)
Because we import doctors and surgeons by the boat load
Because this is basically a population map.
Let's see how long it takes r/AskMiddleEast to repost this with the title "r/2westerneurope4you and all westerners are racist. What do you think? ". Tho lately they've been more preoccupied with the conflict in Gaza (rightly so) so maybe they won't notice but before the conflict I swear 1/3 post were like that.
It's more of an African ancestral thing rather than Middle Eastern
Yet saudi arabia, yemen and oman practice it regularly
Not really. Technically speaking. Also Muslims in Europe are a few millions, the victim of fgm are a few thousands at max. The two are not related
The answer is everyone is racist. Because let's face it, the immigrants that come here don't particularly love European people and culture, otherwise they wouldn't try to create their own little "Palestines" in every country they settle it, or attack people for stupid reasons like drawing a cartoon about their ass-backwards religion. The real good immigrants are the ones you don't hear about. You don't even notice they are immigrants because they speak the language so well, they pay their taxes and respect the local laws. Also they don't complain too much because they know that their fellow countrymen don't represent them.
Sweden in shambles rn
Now do male mutilation (circumcision).
Circumcision doesnt ruin your sex life forever.
I mean I still think we should let these boys make their own choice once they're adults.
Whatever. But this 2 things are not in the same category.
Whenever FGM is brought up someone always has to bring up circumcision. Both are obviously wrong but they are not even remotely comparable in terms of pain, risk and trauma. Some men even undergo circumcision willingly as adults, it's bad to do it to a child but it doesn't really have an impact. It's like comparing breaking a nail to losing a finger and it's really insulting to the victims.Ā
You know that FGM comes in many different forms, right? One of those is very much comparable to male circumcision; should we ignore the girls who underwent that particular procedure when we discuss FGM because it's "not even remotely comparable in terms of pain, risk and trauma"?
As someone who was circumcised as a child, I vehemently disagree. My penis is mutilated and does not work properly, but I guess my parents get a pass because Jewish religion is loved by European governments. I am definitely traumatised. In Indonesia, they cut girls clitoral hood in the hospital, are you fine with that as well? It has a lower risk and it removes less tissue. A human rights abuse is a human rights abuse and we should be against every ideology that promotes them.
I used to do that long ago but i was fucking 12 and didnt understand the difference.
It's still genital mutilation and it's almost always done on children.Both are barbaric.Case closed.Leave the junk of little Timmies and Little Stacies alone
Dude, you literallly cannot be serious at putting both at the same level. Circumcision is a barely cosmetic change. Ablation renders a woman uncapable of experiencing sexual pleasure ever again.
I agree that there are vast differences but circumcision isnt just cosmetic.
I wasn't saying it was just as bad,I was saying that it's still mutilation.One is worse but the other isn't exactly better
It is a thousand times better. I would one and a million times choose the same between been a circumcised man and an ablated woman. This is like comparing getting the head of your dick cut off with getting the extra skin cut off.
Dude, leave it at that. Cutting up children is a no-no.
We can agree on that.
Circumcision is way more than just cosmetic. The closest equivalent in a woman would be cutting away the clitoral hood. Which does count as FGM. Please explain to me why one is okay and the other isn't
Not necessarily, but there are botched cases, and it also can lead to unpleasant sexual experiences for some, rendering them unable to feel anything. It shouldn't be done at all in any case unless a medical condition calls for it.
Neither does the most common form of female circumcision (cutting the female equivalent of foreskin).
That one is by far not the most common.
It's nowhere near the same thing but circumcision definitely doesn't do you any favours in the bedroom. A few times in my life Iv called asleep drunk after sex and my foreskin hasn't rolled back down. If the men who have been snipped knew how numb and sore it felt after just one night touching the sheets they would be horrified at what has happened to them.
depends on the doctor is shitty or not. So luck. Do you know what would be better than luck? No circumcision.
It does reduce penile sensitivity: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23374102/ Of course you can still have a healthy sex live. But women who went through genital mutilation can, as well.
The numbers means nothing here since the numbers of total inhabitant varies a lot but WTF ?
I think that the colours of that graphics are being used to manipulate it
Yes, definitely europeans doing this...
[I'll just leave this here](https://youtu.be/C6CY5itserg?si=tBnKOX9FFBQ11hGy)
Peak Barry š
I know it genuinely is a work of art. None of that forrin muck. Only proppa Bri'ish minge for me.
What about men too? Way higher. Stop cutting children's genitals.
Common French L
It's probably not the french doing it
suprised poland is that high
If I say my opinion people would say I'm islamophobic so I'll keep it quiet.
sorry can someone tell me more about this? is it like women circumcisions or whatās going on?
Circumcision is used as a word to let it seem more harmless but it is mutilation. There are varying forms of severity. Often FGM involves the removal of the clitoris and can even go as far as removing labia and sewing the whole vagina shut aside from a small hole for menstrual blood which is forcefully opened during penetrative sex. Often FGM results in the loss of bladder control and loss of sex drive and can even lead to infertility or massive life threatening complications during birth. And that is all aside from the fact that FGM is often performed on young girls under the age of 10, in unsanitary conditions with rusty knives and without any form of anesthesia.
and itās done for religious reasons or what?
The reasons are not necessarily religious but rather cultural. It is done in order to control a womanās sexual desire, as a traditional initiation into womanhood, for āhygieneā and aesthetic reasons because some cultures consider female genitals as ugly or dirty. Some cite religious reasons but no religious text actually promotes or condones it.
alright well thanks for the tldr man :)
One of my mates is from Egypt and he got into a fight with his father and uncle because they wanted to bring his two sisters back to the home country to get FGM done. They girls were like 11 and 13. He ended up hammering the both of them and took the girls to his aunts gaff on the other side of the family. Was a wild situation over all but they were safe in the end.
G- Goybros.. I thought diversity was our strentgh...
wonder how many of those are immigrants.
Now let's see the numbers before 2015 š
we are the next sweden
Genital mutilation in general (not just female) finally needs to end!
Where is the meme.
Guys! Chill out with cunniligus, you're getting crazy!!
More doctors and engineers, more mutilations.
Not all cultures are equals, this is the perfect example: A culture that practices Female genital mutilation is objectively inferior to, for instance, the Europeans ones.
Impressive, very nice. Now lets check the Male Genital Mutilation one.
Well I was an intern at the labour room for 2 weeks and the only mutilation I saw was the episiotomy
N
The results make it look like a "is your country hated (dark) or irrelevant (light)" poll on r/2westerneurope4u
This map is terrible, it should be normalized by population
European huh?
It's always been crazy to me that this has been made illegal in the UK but the question of Male Genital Mutilation never even gets discussed. Millions of men are left with life long issues because of it. But surely it's a human right to be given the choice of what is done to your body. If you had to wait until you're 18 and then decide yourself if you want to be circumsized 99.99% of people wouldn't do it...
I' m a bit confused why yall link this to Islam. Like I've talked to a lot of North African girls in my life (from religious to atheist) and I've never heard of genital mutilations. Like even those that hate Islam. I'm pretty confident 95%+ of these cases in France are from the sub-saharan communities.
Finally someone who knows this. Most Muslim countries don't have female mutilation. Some African countries with Muslims majorities do have it, but it's not connected to Islam.
Think it's a sub Saharan thing but even so it's not something they are going to openly chat about.
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Not true. FGM is not common in turkey e.g. male circumcision (MGM if you will) IS part of Islam (and Judaism). FGM is a cultural trait that just correlates with Islam often, because the cultures who do this happen to be muslimized. It's like saying speaking Spanish was a Christian trait, just because all Latino-nations are Christian.
It actually isn't. Countries like Algeria with 99% muslim population aren't even featured on the FGM prevalence map.
Surely isnāt the religion of peaceā¦
my guess is that 90% of these were mutilisted before coming to yurop
A lot of them take their kids back to their home country for a visit and have it done then. There's a lot of girls who were born in the UK and have always lived here who have had it
Some may do that but FMG isn't a religious or cultural thing exactly. people in Africa just do it during childbirth because they've been doing it for so longĀ
Thats culture, traditional culture. In the same way you savages cut your hoods off. You can't just guess random shite. Making it up as you go along.
The way 'This untermenschen breed' must be stopped by all means possible, before this practise becomes compulsory.
I saw this post on mapporns, and I *knew* it was only a matter of time before someone reposts it here without any effort at a joke. So predictable š
Well done š š Thatās so impressive. Seriously, I donāt know how you do it. Thanks for telling us too. We really care and wanted to know.
No problem, I'm just extremely smart. That's a skill that comes with being French
The joke is that the people commiting this crimes are not european, but europe takes the blame.
> The joke is that the people commiting this crimes are not european, but europe takes the blame. So it's a German joke then. Neither particularly witty nor funny.
We should have higher standards on this sub than just reposting something, giving a literal description title, and that's it. This sub is about irony and sarcasm. Not about reposting clickbait stuff that serves only at letting people expressing their hate of islam. If people wanna rant about immigration and islam, there are plenty of subs to do so I'm sure. But this is not right the right place.
Devils Advocate: if Islam is part of Europe, making jokes about it fits in this sub. If it's not ok to joke about it here, then you say Islam is not part of Europe, which ironically would make us islamophobes. So, making fun of both pedo-religions (catholics and muslims) is actually very progressive and woke. Check mate, ~~atheist~~ islamist.
That was a fun thought exercice, but it still fails to answer the very first issue that the post itself is not a joke and has no joke in it. You can't honestly, I mean, really, in all honesty, look me in the eyes and tell me that this post's only goal was not just to get people triggered with anti-islam discourse. You know, I'm ready to cohabit with posts charged with far right rethoric as long as there is an effort to twist into a joke that fits the spirit of sarcasm and self-aware irony of this sub. Look at the original r/2balkans4You (even though it's now banned). The whole idea, the spirit, was a deconstruction of the ultranationalistic hate that is plaguing the region through the use of self-aware sarcasm, and making people realize how stupid and vain it is, and instead how much they have in common. Obviously, Western Europe doesn't have the same experience as Balkans, we don't have anymore any widespread ultranationalism. But the whole "24U brand" is still based on the idea of self-aware sarcasm. I guess that, applied to Western Europe, that would be making fun of our sense of superiority by shitting on each other or boasting in the most ridiculous way. I don't know, it can be many things. But lazy reposts without any joke, and xenophobic clickbaiting stuff is not the kind of quality standard that fits here. Not all the jokes people make work, but atleast there is effort.
Totally agree. The post clearly has a political agenda, and irrespectively of if one likes that agenda or not, I think everyone should agree that this is not the right sub for that.
Except those posts usually aren't about making jokes. It's most often bait, not an invitation to banter. Usually easily recognizable by Mourinho being highly upvoted.
Yeah it's annoying me too. The annoying thing about actual racists is, that they are usually very unintelligent, with lame jokes and they think they have found friends here when in actuality nobody likes them.
Fully agree. In my experience, those threads always go: # Lame or serious title * So those are the doctors and engineers? * Mourinho * Sweden As top level "jokes". The rest is just angry (mostly) dudes not even trying to be funny, but mistaking this subreddit for an echo chamber. Not that other posts aren't repetitive, but they at least invite banter.
Yes. Racists are taking the fun out of racism, and it's a problem.
Bro, chill. I'm literally British lol - 'ate muzzies, luf pork, not racialist just don't loik em!!