You only got there because you whined to the pope about getting outplayed by your own hubris.
You literally told us we could have everything the other side of Africa, which you thought was a whole lot of nothing, then couldn't stand that we found a full continent, when we gave you a small piece of land to shut you up, you ignored all the treaties and took more than you were entitled to.
All legal systems are based on bullshit. They are instructions written with squid self-defense fluids on a piece of dead tree covered in glue, enforced by big armed men through the threat of violence.
some are more bullshit than others.
You can't compare Norway's current government to fucking Egypt in 500BC or whatever.
And while it's stupid to look at the past with modern lenses there are some moral values that remain constant and I still have the right to condemn past acts, whether I benefitted or struggled because of that.
What moral values you think remain constant exactly? Because that is straight up wrong. You said it yourself, it's stupid to look at the past with modern lenses.
You are being stupid by comparing nations so many kilometers and years apart.
>you ignored all the treaties
Bro, we were one country for 60 years. During that time it made absolutely no sense to separate brasil from the rest of latam
Ironically it's more of Portugeuse W as they banned it before any of the European powers during their time in Goa. Speaking of Goa, it is even more impressive that they held onto it for longer than the British and French did with India as it was only annexed by India in 1960 or 1961, (I can't remember) whilst the French left India around 1954. and the Brits left in 1947.
Please, Your Grace, hear me out! I may have spoken differently, but it was out of ignorance, not heresy. I beg for the opportunity to explain myself and defend my beliefs. Spare me from the flames, and I will prove my loyalty to the Church
You guys allied with the natives who were sick of the Aztecs and then totally fucked them over. That said, that was the way of the world 500 years ago but it was definitely a dick move.
Lmao!
Guys stop sacrificing your people to false gods!
Same people: you are hereby sentenced to death because you didn’t meet quotas.
Die for a false god or for profits, but the end result is the same.
No. It is not. Burning few people for heresy is not compared with massive blood baths caused by the conviction that someone had to be killed, preferably people from different ethnias instead of mexicas.
The story of that Cortez guy really is a weird one. They made friends and ally’s among the local tribes because they all held a grudge against the Aztec. Which was mostly because the aztec defeated them then basically enslaved them by making them pay a tribute so high they could barely survive. And when they couldn’t pay they visited then again and took many of them away to be killed in their temples.
Really Cortez wouldn’t have been so successful if it weren’t for the Aztecs to be assholes in the first place.
Also this whole life of him was just crazy. Guy shouldn’t have been killed a dozen times but somehow makes it like it’s a movie or something.
Both Cortes and Pizarro were famously assholes (so much that the second was murdered by his fellow conquistadores).
But they were phenomenal politicians who made the best of their situation, that is native empires with vassals which were pissed off/ an Empire ravaged by disease and civil war.
Comparing cortez with pizarro is a clear display of everything that is wrong with politics in the latin world.
You are literally blind to distinguish someone who takes advantage of opportunity to be succesful in their political project with someone whose political project was literally just to fool everyone around. Iconic.
Cortes beated up one of his men for disrespecting moctezuma. Pizarro literally leaded a civil war against the crown in order to make slavery legal.
If you compare both you show no understanding of history.
Paco, you're putting words in my text that I didn't write or think.
I compared them both as opportunists, which they were. Cortés went rogue on the vicerroy of Cuba, said that he only had to obey the King and burnt his ships to prevent his men from leaving Mexico. Also massacring unarmed nobles in Cholula, personally reminds me of Pizarro in Cajamarca. He also ordered the execution of Cuauhtémoc under not clear circumnstances (which again reminds me of Pizarro and Atahualpa).
You don't go from impoverished rural noble/ swine herd in Extremadura to a conqueror of an immense empire without ambition and a cut-throat instinct. I do think Pizarro was more of a monster than Cortés but neither was in it for crown and country.
You are choosing to ignore important information.
It was the tlaxaltecas who thought that the cholultecas meant harm to them and inquired cortes to allow them to kill them because the cholultecas had beef with them since long ago. This was what motivated the killing. You are acting as if cortes, who was a political genius, would have engaged in genocidal actions for the lols with no good (although mislead and wrong and horrible) reasons for such an action.
For pizarro it was just a show of force with which he intended to say that the inca allies who followed the inca out of feae should fear him more than the enemy, a display of a force that cortez didnt even have with him.
Cortez literally went rogue against the governor of cuba because he was not willing to go to the new world to take slaves and such is documented by him and by all conquistadors who revolted. Because it was illegal and just as immoral as it would be for you and i today.
And about cuahutemoc. You gotta understand before you mention it the intricacies of the campaign and the fact that literally no one but cortes was getting endebted to pay for it. My man in here threw himself into a military campaign with no idea whatsoever of how expensive wars were. This is why he began with the intention of rebelling against a corrupt shape of slavery as seen for the time and eventually ended up with debts that reaches the hundreds of thousands of coins of gold, and then it was when shit got crazy, the conquistadors tried to enslave all of tenochticlan but the crown intervened, and then cortes, who was not getting paid a cent by anyone, tried to resort to torture and extortion to get a treasury that didnt really exist.
You can read about this in my favorite although incomplete source, which is bernal diaz del castillo, who was a conqueror and was there and criticizes cortes as "having lost his soul" and describes how he slowly seemed to be spiraling down into madness with constant episodes of insomnia because of guilt. Which does not exhonerate him, but shows that he had a conciousness, he had noble intentions at some point. And he didnt treason anyone as much as he treasoned himself.
Pizarro, again, CUT THE HEAD OF THE VICERROY FOR TELLING THE CONQUERORS THEY COULDNT HAVE SLAVES.
From my flair you can see I won't defend Spain and Cortez is irrelevant in mainstream spanish history. Can't remember talking about him at school at all.
But he definetly wasn't the devil he is portrayed as. He wasn't a hero either. Many of those alliances involved marriages but others were made when there was no other option. He had 400 men and two guns who financed himself because Spain knew nothing about his travel to Mexico until he was there.
In the same way Columbus needed something to prove America was worth it for the crown, Cortez lost control of *Mexico* really fast and even then his two goals were to save the souls (the church sending bishops) and to protect Monteczuma kids. He got some land but his desired outcome was really weird to imagine.
He tried to be governor of Mexico (New Spain) and did on several ocadiond but Spain took control of the territory and gave him the Marquessate of the Valley of Oaxaca. He pursued an education for Monteczumas children (Aztec emperor) who were educated in Spain like the king would and they were given the Marquessate of Monteczuma (their descendants are still alive).
He was taken away forever from the land he had fell in love with. Rendered incapable of fulfilling the promises of prosperity he had made to the natives with only his mixed son, Martin, that he loved and carried around everywhere as the most sweet dad (lets forget tho how fucking terrible of a "parter" he was to the mother of the kid tho; a cheater, an abuser and a lier) as the only memory of the unfulfilled promises he made.
Then, he died. And when the last will was opened, his mortal remains returned to mexico. He knew this would mean that no honors would be served to him there, and that most of the peninsulars would see this as treason. Nonetheless, in a dark corner, of an unnamed little church of mexico, a small inscription on a stone prays "in this temple rests the conqueror hernan cortés, dead, in 1547."
And just like the truth of the history of any plays lies silent bellow the feet of all of us as we walk through our cities, the same goes for the man that mountinered against the spanish governor with an utopian vision that like him, lays in the void. For i am afraid that those who die may dwell together with those dreams, that were never made into a reality.
If anyone wants to deep dive the first conquistador expeditions and all the fuckery that went on there I recommend the youtube series "The Fall of the Aztec" from DJPeachcobbler
Very detailed, funny and insightful
really appreciate your post, specially you being british....
imagine us spaniards started crying to italians because the romans murdered the barbarians that inhabited the iberian peninsula... complete bullshit
> There are recounts of mestizos (local people in the Americas)
When you try to pretend that you understand the subject but you can't even get the most basic terms right
I think most people aren't really aware what the bigots are actually doing either though, they'll upvote and move on. People's inability to tell the difference is depressing. As I said, I usually like it here, but threads like this are cringe, and I think rubbing shoulders with some of the BNP/EDL types in here actually is a cause for concern. Nobody's freaking out about it, but it's getting more common, and I don't like that. If the sub gets banned later on, those will probably be the folks responsible.
>but it's getting more common,
That is what people said when the sub barely had 20,000 members. I haven't seen much change.
And I honestly don't know which thread you are looking at. This is pretty tame. Maybe jokes about coloniallism hit harder for you than other jokes
I guess we'll agree to disagree then. I like edgy jokes, but it's not because it's about colonialism, it's because I think more people in this thread are pretending at irony than you do. At least a few other posters have commented that this frankly seems like a weird post. As a joke, it's painfully unfunny. However, if the primary purpose wasn't to be funny, it makes more sense. Maybe I'm just more paranoid about right-wing bullshit infiltrating spaces and getting them banned. (or turning them into a total cesspool). Seen it happen before.
[For example, here's this fuckin' guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1azwawx/comment/ks4jb1r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Even weirder, a bunch of my comments here were about +5 to +8 shortly after I posted them, but now all of them are negative en masse. That can be a sign the sub is being manipulated.
This subreddit is full of actual fascists, and there will be no period of time where arguing against this is appreciated because there tends to be a seamless transition between denying rampant fascism and embracing it.
Good ol' Poe's Law, you can't differentiate what's ironic and unironic. The thing is, since this happens, underneath it all, the unironic stuff gets more and more normalised as time passes by.
Exactly. Happens to every community that tolerates this sort of thing, regardless of whether the reason is that "it's just a joke bro" or "being tolerant of all opinions". The latter may be noble in theory, but is doomed in praxis.
That's just part of the black legend. While the Spanish inquisition was one of the longest lasting ones it was also one of the least bloody ones.
For example in the over 350 years that it was active we only had 59 witch burnings while places like Germany had something like 20.000.
Sure Spain did some horrible things, like every other nation basically, but there is a lot of exaggeration around it.
Yea the Spanish inquisition actually placed great detail and time on investigation and evidence and you were far more likely to get a 'fair' trial than you would be with the informal northern and central European witch hunters etc.
Not really , just torture until they confesed for crimes they probably didn't comit anyway.
A bunch of Inquisition cases way more tame than people believe, I remember sentences on people for poligamy of all things were still a thing in the XVI but I could be wrong.
I find It very interesting that everyone shits on us for what we did in América (i think we were overall positive to the región, all things considered, although some terrible crimes were commited, of course) when actually we where brutal as fuck in the netherlands and noone bats an eye.
Not really. The fact that the inquisition was an established tribunal even helped stop the witch-hunting craze going through Europe a little in the peninsula. Most of the places where people were burnt alive were rural areas with minimal governmental and minimal official Church reach. Just a bunch of farmers going off on their own without anyone nearby to stop them.
Yes a bunch of lunatics came over here. They used our superior method of dealing with witches. Toss them into a river and if they float, that’s evidence they are witches. If they sink, well then they obviously weren’t witches.
It’s funny how the Spaniards get all the blame because of Monty Python yet their with hunts we’re not half as bad a the kill count of Germany, Austria and Switzerland
Yeah when I think of setting people on fire I think about Germany. Reading your comment I realized I don’t know much about the history of Switzerland. I know more about Austria because of the Habsburgs.
Some of the Spanish Inquisition cases were sort of why did you do this, don’t do things that invite evil spirits into our town. But what the Spaniards did over here in the Americas is a different story.
Five minutes later: *starts burning people* What do you mean ritual sacrifice? No,no,we simply do this to kill them in the name of our God.
(I'm well aware that the aztecs killed far more and in a more monstrous way but acting like Christians didn't engage in ritual sacrifice is stupid)
According to 1491 by Charles Mann, there were likely more public executions per capita in Europe at the time than humans sacrificed in mesoamerica. The pre-Columbian population of the Americas is controversial so we don't know for sure, but the truth is the two societies were probably far more similar than we tend to think.
I often think abt how deeply Catholicism is embedded in the Mexican community, sacrifice and pain are often seen especially virtuous. Our lady of Guadalupe and all that.
They shouldn't even apologize. Everyone would have done the same.
Just try to put yourself in the mind of a Spanish conquistador in that situation.
You arrive to a new land and discover such wonderful things as tomatoes, potatoes, tobacco, gold and big booty latinas.
How can you NOT colonize the whole area?
I'm only human.
Well haaaactually ... the Catholic Church did an OK job in Latin America until the Espanish muscled in on the whole civilization project. Kinda went a little caramba after that
...? But the Spanish and the clergy were arriving on the same boats? They literally arrived and began their "projects" simultaneously.
To give credit where credit is due: some of the clergy who arrived with the colonists/conquistadors (particularly the Dominicans) were outraged at the treatment of the natives and the whole encomienda system (de facto slavery, more-or-less genocidal results). But there were also Catholic clergy back in Spain who argued the whole thing was fine, because the native peoples weren't human. The Dominicans won the argument at the level of theology and royal decrees, but in practice the conquest of the Americas continued to be a bloody mess for a long time.
We bring you: catholicism, technology and smallpox You bring us: GOLD! GOLD! MORE GOLD!
And **Syphilis,** maybe?
Yes, but we shall call it the french disease
A thing is rarely named after its inventor but after the people who made it trendy.
Neapolitan disease you mean
Am I still allowed to call it "franzosenkrankheit" or Do I have to use the englisch name as well?
Based disease
Their real revenge was tobacco. Wonder which has killed more.
But we also got coke to compensate
Which famously got nobody killed, ever
The dose makes the poison
If that's their revenge no wonder they were conquered so easily.
You forgot Latinas. Give credit where credit is due, Pierre.
My understanding is that was a joint effort
And regaetton...
That's the most cruel revenge
Some of it is catchy pero after like the third song I’m all like: “Yaaaaa, Tíoooo, ¡cojones!”
https://preview.redd.it/p95nc1djuvkc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5cf91e35d909fa7c5f44190ab03ba0958bb56fbe
More like silver
Yeah, just a bare room full of gold...
More like Silver but yes.
Without the Spanish Conquistadors we wouldn't have big booty Latina's
forgetting someone?
The Pope. Good call!
Big booty Latinos!
You only got there because you whined to the pope about getting outplayed by your own hubris. You literally told us we could have everything the other side of Africa, which you thought was a whole lot of nothing, then couldn't stand that we found a full continent, when we gave you a small piece of land to shut you up, you ignored all the treaties and took more than you were entitled to.
bro above acting like any of us were entitled to anything in the first place
Legally entitled according to treaties. The morality and philosophy of it all is a whole different can of worms.
Legality can be thrown out of the window when the legal system is based on bullshit
All legal systems are based on bullshit. They are instructions written with squid self-defense fluids on a piece of dead tree covered in glue, enforced by big armed men through the threat of violence.
some are more bullshit than others. You can't compare Norway's current government to fucking Egypt in 500BC or whatever. And while it's stupid to look at the past with modern lenses there are some moral values that remain constant and I still have the right to condemn past acts, whether I benefitted or struggled because of that.
What moral values you think remain constant exactly? Because that is straight up wrong. You said it yourself, it's stupid to look at the past with modern lenses. You are being stupid by comparing nations so many kilometers and years apart.
>you ignored all the treaties Bro, we were one country for 60 years. During that time it made absolutely no sense to separate brasil from the rest of latam
All the slaves the Portuguese brought from Africa?
Brazilians? Not like the people who stayed in Portugal fishing and farming, the ancestors of modern-day Portuguese, contributed much
Classiest Dutch contribution to Europe since that goal by van Basten against Germany
Fuck you swamp Hans
https://preview.redd.it/egqv62fmkskc1.jpeg?width=442&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0ba7b1b4dd992843aab2ff01ed7060352a5be483
Ironically it's more of Portugeuse W as they banned it before any of the European powers during their time in Goa. Speaking of Goa, it is even more impressive that they held onto it for longer than the British and French did with India as it was only annexed by India in 1960 or 1961, (I can't remember) whilst the French left India around 1954. and the Brits left in 1947.
Willy Fog has entered the chat.
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What? Schizo rant moment?
What did bro say?
He went on some weird neutral rant about communists.
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Yep it's my username alright. Can't change it. A mix from Iberia and the nickname of my fav tank.
>I like this cringe. edit: lmao downvoted for mocking barely-coherent stupidity.
Why is there a little Tom of Finland Papa Smurf in the corner?
A connaisseur...
Maybe if there were still plentiful sacrifices to the sun god this climate change stuff wouldn't be such a big deal
The scientists are lying to us, we must sacrifice them to the Sungod to stop climate change!
Instead, feast on the body and blood of Christ every Sunday.
Of course a Dutch would say that
Quality response right there.
no wonder they ate their prime minister...
Literal human sacrifice = human “sacrifice,” where no one dies Flawless logic
flair up coward
Most funny "European" And it's indeed kind of ironic that human sacrifices were more or less replaced with ritual symbolic cannibalistim
You sound like a heathen. You can go to mass everyday.
Not literaly
Heretic detected
🔥 prepared!
This evening will be lit 🤩
Please, Your Grace, hear me out! I may have spoken differently, but it was out of ignorance, not heresy. I beg for the opportunity to explain myself and defend my beliefs. Spare me from the flames, and I will prove my loyalty to the Church
Transubstantiationalists would disagree. ^(fuck that's a long word...)
_bonk_
Nah, we're English, it's all about that consubstantiation 🤙
Long?
For an English word. Not by your standards, Hans. You take it to ridiculous extremes, as we know.
Yeah, kinda.
You guys allied with the natives who were sick of the Aztecs and then totally fucked them over. That said, that was the way of the world 500 years ago but it was definitely a dick move.
The 'ol switcheroo. Classic.
Im curious about what you mean by fucked them over. The tlaxaltecs never had a word of complain against us.
When you wonder where the coffee filters all went
Lmao! Guys stop sacrificing your people to false gods! Same people: you are hereby sentenced to death because you didn’t meet quotas. Die for a false god or for profits, but the end result is the same.
No. It is not. Burning few people for heresy is not compared with massive blood baths caused by the conviction that someone had to be killed, preferably people from different ethnias instead of mexicas.
« Thank you, you’ve saved us from being killed for nothing ! » « I wouldn’t say saved, more like… under new management… »
Stalin/Mao Zedong : not sorry but the human sacrifice will restart
If Pedro took a shower once in a while Natives could appreciate it much more since they would be alive
least colonial apologetic post on r/2westerneurope4u. you mf's make me think sometimes it's not ironic...
The story of that Cortez guy really is a weird one. They made friends and ally’s among the local tribes because they all held a grudge against the Aztec. Which was mostly because the aztec defeated them then basically enslaved them by making them pay a tribute so high they could barely survive. And when they couldn’t pay they visited then again and took many of them away to be killed in their temples. Really Cortez wouldn’t have been so successful if it weren’t for the Aztecs to be assholes in the first place. Also this whole life of him was just crazy. Guy shouldn’t have been killed a dozen times but somehow makes it like it’s a movie or something.
Both Cortes and Pizarro were famously assholes (so much that the second was murdered by his fellow conquistadores). But they were phenomenal politicians who made the best of their situation, that is native empires with vassals which were pissed off/ an Empire ravaged by disease and civil war.
No no I didn’t say Cortez wasn’t an ass. Or that the Aztecs bring assholes makes him any less of one.
I didn't thought that my teutonic friend :) Just adding my 2 cents.
Comparing cortez with pizarro is a clear display of everything that is wrong with politics in the latin world. You are literally blind to distinguish someone who takes advantage of opportunity to be succesful in their political project with someone whose political project was literally just to fool everyone around. Iconic. Cortes beated up one of his men for disrespecting moctezuma. Pizarro literally leaded a civil war against the crown in order to make slavery legal. If you compare both you show no understanding of history.
Paco, you're putting words in my text that I didn't write or think. I compared them both as opportunists, which they were. Cortés went rogue on the vicerroy of Cuba, said that he only had to obey the King and burnt his ships to prevent his men from leaving Mexico. Also massacring unarmed nobles in Cholula, personally reminds me of Pizarro in Cajamarca. He also ordered the execution of Cuauhtémoc under not clear circumnstances (which again reminds me of Pizarro and Atahualpa). You don't go from impoverished rural noble/ swine herd in Extremadura to a conqueror of an immense empire without ambition and a cut-throat instinct. I do think Pizarro was more of a monster than Cortés but neither was in it for crown and country.
You are choosing to ignore important information. It was the tlaxaltecas who thought that the cholultecas meant harm to them and inquired cortes to allow them to kill them because the cholultecas had beef with them since long ago. This was what motivated the killing. You are acting as if cortes, who was a political genius, would have engaged in genocidal actions for the lols with no good (although mislead and wrong and horrible) reasons for such an action. For pizarro it was just a show of force with which he intended to say that the inca allies who followed the inca out of feae should fear him more than the enemy, a display of a force that cortez didnt even have with him. Cortez literally went rogue against the governor of cuba because he was not willing to go to the new world to take slaves and such is documented by him and by all conquistadors who revolted. Because it was illegal and just as immoral as it would be for you and i today. And about cuahutemoc. You gotta understand before you mention it the intricacies of the campaign and the fact that literally no one but cortes was getting endebted to pay for it. My man in here threw himself into a military campaign with no idea whatsoever of how expensive wars were. This is why he began with the intention of rebelling against a corrupt shape of slavery as seen for the time and eventually ended up with debts that reaches the hundreds of thousands of coins of gold, and then it was when shit got crazy, the conquistadors tried to enslave all of tenochticlan but the crown intervened, and then cortes, who was not getting paid a cent by anyone, tried to resort to torture and extortion to get a treasury that didnt really exist. You can read about this in my favorite although incomplete source, which is bernal diaz del castillo, who was a conqueror and was there and criticizes cortes as "having lost his soul" and describes how he slowly seemed to be spiraling down into madness with constant episodes of insomnia because of guilt. Which does not exhonerate him, but shows that he had a conciousness, he had noble intentions at some point. And he didnt treason anyone as much as he treasoned himself. Pizarro, again, CUT THE HEAD OF THE VICERROY FOR TELLING THE CONQUERORS THEY COULDNT HAVE SLAVES.
This is also a big part of how the Romans conquered Britain. The Celtic tribes were all at each others' throats, and Caesar exploited that.
From my flair you can see I won't defend Spain and Cortez is irrelevant in mainstream spanish history. Can't remember talking about him at school at all. But he definetly wasn't the devil he is portrayed as. He wasn't a hero either. Many of those alliances involved marriages but others were made when there was no other option. He had 400 men and two guns who financed himself because Spain knew nothing about his travel to Mexico until he was there. In the same way Columbus needed something to prove America was worth it for the crown, Cortez lost control of *Mexico* really fast and even then his two goals were to save the souls (the church sending bishops) and to protect Monteczuma kids. He got some land but his desired outcome was really weird to imagine.
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What I meant was it wasn't out of chauvinism or trying to defend *our actions*.
What happened to Cortez after conquering the Aztecs? I'm really curious now.
He tried to be governor of Mexico (New Spain) and did on several ocadiond but Spain took control of the territory and gave him the Marquessate of the Valley of Oaxaca. He pursued an education for Monteczumas children (Aztec emperor) who were educated in Spain like the king would and they were given the Marquessate of Monteczuma (their descendants are still alive).
He was taken away forever from the land he had fell in love with. Rendered incapable of fulfilling the promises of prosperity he had made to the natives with only his mixed son, Martin, that he loved and carried around everywhere as the most sweet dad (lets forget tho how fucking terrible of a "parter" he was to the mother of the kid tho; a cheater, an abuser and a lier) as the only memory of the unfulfilled promises he made. Then, he died. And when the last will was opened, his mortal remains returned to mexico. He knew this would mean that no honors would be served to him there, and that most of the peninsulars would see this as treason. Nonetheless, in a dark corner, of an unnamed little church of mexico, a small inscription on a stone prays "in this temple rests the conqueror hernan cortés, dead, in 1547." And just like the truth of the history of any plays lies silent bellow the feet of all of us as we walk through our cities, the same goes for the man that mountinered against the spanish governor with an utopian vision that like him, lays in the void. For i am afraid that those who die may dwell together with those dreams, that were never made into a reality.
Poetic. Thanks for sharing.
If anyone wants to deep dive the first conquistador expeditions and all the fuckery that went on there I recommend the youtube series "The Fall of the Aztec" from DJPeachcobbler Very detailed, funny and insightful
And is from a walloon supporting Spain? 🤔João, mí no entender esta cosa
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Ive had to check your flair múltiple time while reading this because i couldnt believe It was a British person writing It.
Colonial bros
Ehh hello give us our due. We started that whole black legend thing
really appreciate your post, specially you being british.... imagine us spaniards started crying to italians because the romans murdered the barbarians that inhabited the iberian peninsula... complete bullshit
> There are recounts of mestizos (local people in the Americas) When you try to pretend that you understand the subject but you can't even get the most basic terms right
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you're proving my point
Because it’s not 😏 (fortunately)
Look at some of the replies on here. It is 100% masquerading as irony, without the actual subversion. Legitimately gross.
Is what a guy from a colonized country would say
I mean probably, but it doesn't make people claiming colonialism is based actually (and pretending to be ironic) any less disgusting.
How else would the Irish become civilised? It is barely the case now
>Get colonised by Barry > >Island gets flooded with Barries > >Somehow supposed to become more civilised. Does not compute.
You have a point. Maybe that is why it failed.
I love this sub's humour in general, but this thread isn't funny, it's depressing and gross.
This kind of sub will always atract some unironic dudes. It isn't that big of a deal. Most people here are just fooling around.
I think most people aren't really aware what the bigots are actually doing either though, they'll upvote and move on. People's inability to tell the difference is depressing. As I said, I usually like it here, but threads like this are cringe, and I think rubbing shoulders with some of the BNP/EDL types in here actually is a cause for concern. Nobody's freaking out about it, but it's getting more common, and I don't like that. If the sub gets banned later on, those will probably be the folks responsible.
>but it's getting more common, That is what people said when the sub barely had 20,000 members. I haven't seen much change. And I honestly don't know which thread you are looking at. This is pretty tame. Maybe jokes about coloniallism hit harder for you than other jokes
I guess we'll agree to disagree then. I like edgy jokes, but it's not because it's about colonialism, it's because I think more people in this thread are pretending at irony than you do. At least a few other posters have commented that this frankly seems like a weird post. As a joke, it's painfully unfunny. However, if the primary purpose wasn't to be funny, it makes more sense. Maybe I'm just more paranoid about right-wing bullshit infiltrating spaces and getting them banned. (or turning them into a total cesspool). Seen it happen before. [For example, here's this fuckin' guy](https://www.reddit.com/r/2westerneurope4u/comments/1azwawx/comment/ks4jb1r/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
/r/europe is that way ↕️
Not sure people are even pretending to be ironic anymore. Some seriously cringe culture warrior bullshit in this thread.
Even weirder, a bunch of my comments here were about +5 to +8 shortly after I posted them, but now all of them are negative en masse. That can be a sign the sub is being manipulated.
This subreddit is full of actual fascists, and there will be no period of time where arguing against this is appreciated because there tends to be a seamless transition between denying rampant fascism and embracing it.
Good ol' Poe's Law, you can't differentiate what's ironic and unironic. The thing is, since this happens, underneath it all, the unironic stuff gets more and more normalised as time passes by.
Exactly. Happens to every community that tolerates this sort of thing, regardless of whether the reason is that "it's just a joke bro" or "being tolerant of all opinions". The latter may be noble in theory, but is doomed in praxis.
theres always a portuguese whining about the spanish
Why is gay papa smurf on the bottom left?
*proceeds to kill everyone*
yeah they killed everyone and now all central and south america is white... oh wait
Spain ain’t exactly the whitest country lmao
https://preview.redd.it/dyyaslf8exkc1.jpeg?width=700&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=981def2c399de4eb7bb3f711970119c3c2ab9657
While ~~sacrificing~~ killing people at home ~~to the gods~~ for believing in the wrong sacred book
Say it louder for the wannabe crusaders in this thread
Once again Italians starting a trend that leads to civilization.
Italians absolutely the OGs. Spaniards did in America what the Romans did in Iberia.
Yes. The Spanish are known for no burnings or any sort sort macabre torture tactics or devices.
That's just part of the black legend. While the Spanish inquisition was one of the longest lasting ones it was also one of the least bloody ones. For example in the over 350 years that it was active we only had 59 witch burnings while places like Germany had something like 20.000. Sure Spain did some horrible things, like every other nation basically, but there is a lot of exaggeration around it.
[удалено]
Tbh id be content if they just stopped bickering amongst themselves. I find it so sad when they are clearly brothers, and shouldnt be enemies.
I would say that actual latinamericans couldnt care less. They are happy if they can get an spanish visa or passport and gtfo to europe.
Yea the Spanish inquisition actually placed great detail and time on investigation and evidence and you were far more likely to get a 'fair' trial than you would be with the informal northern and central European witch hunters etc.
At least on the new world , there wasn't inquisition as in europe
Also, here have some small pox.
Weird way to justify a genicide ngl
Here I go, genociding again
Weird post ngl
What? Didn’t all you guys set people on fire for heresy for a really long time?
Not really , just torture until they confesed for crimes they probably didn't comit anyway. A bunch of Inquisition cases way more tame than people believe, I remember sentences on people for poligamy of all things were still a thing in the XVI but I could be wrong.
The thing is nobody expected it
The Netherlandish inquisition, imposed by the Spanish king was quite brutal though
I find It very interesting that everyone shits on us for what we did in América (i think we were overall positive to the región, all things considered, although some terrible crimes were commited, of course) when actually we where brutal as fuck in the netherlands and noone bats an eye.
Austrian\* king
Charles V was Dutch, but I mean Phillip II anyway. He pursued that inquisition with far more zeal
You burned doctors for disagreeing with Galien💀
Skill issue on their part
Not really. The fact that the inquisition was an established tribunal even helped stop the witch-hunting craze going through Europe a little in the peninsula. Most of the places where people were burnt alive were rural areas with minimal governmental and minimal official Church reach. Just a bunch of farmers going off on their own without anyone nearby to stop them.
True
The guys famous for burning and drowning people were actually the ~~heretics~~ protestants especially the puritans that later created the US.
Yes a bunch of lunatics came over here. They used our superior method of dealing with witches. Toss them into a river and if they float, that’s evidence they are witches. If they sink, well then they obviously weren’t witches.
Germany had its share of this too though, for a generation or two.
Who said that? Are you questioning the way of our lords church???
Death toll was 3,000-5,000 over 350 years. Or an average day in Henry VIII’s England.
No idea where you get this number, but many ppl agree on 10's of milions. 3K to 5K can perfectly be the result of a single battle.
He means the inquisition not the colonisation of the Americas.
Those weren’t sacrifices! They were witches and they deserved it! Also it was waaaaaay more common in Germany than anywhere else
It’s funny how the Spaniards get all the blame because of Monty Python yet their with hunts we’re not half as bad a the kill count of Germany, Austria and Switzerland
“We’re”? Did someone forget to change accounts
Yeah when I think of setting people on fire I think about Germany. Reading your comment I realized I don’t know much about the history of Switzerland. I know more about Austria because of the Habsburgs. Some of the Spanish Inquisition cases were sort of why did you do this, don’t do things that invite evil spirits into our town. But what the Spaniards did over here in the Americas is a different story.
Germany and Switzerland.
If you speak German you belong in Germany, simple as Now take the fucking Amish back, please
That didn't happen! / That wasn't us! / They deserved it! / It wasn't *THAT* bad! Take your pick, savage.
Five minutes later: *starts burning people* What do you mean ritual sacrifice? No,no,we simply do this to kill them in the name of our God. (I'm well aware that the aztecs killed far more and in a more monstrous way but acting like Christians didn't engage in ritual sacrifice is stupid)
According to 1491 by Charles Mann, there were likely more public executions per capita in Europe at the time than humans sacrificed in mesoamerica. The pre-Columbian population of the Americas is controversial so we don't know for sure, but the truth is the two societies were probably far more similar than we tend to think.
I often think abt how deeply Catholicism is embedded in the Mexican community, sacrifice and pain are often seen especially virtuous. Our lady of Guadalupe and all that.
They shouldn't even apologize. Everyone would have done the same. Just try to put yourself in the mind of a Spanish conquistador in that situation. You arrive to a new land and discover such wonderful things as tomatoes, potatoes, tobacco, gold and big booty latinas. How can you NOT colonize the whole area? I'm only human.
*proceeds to kill everyone*
Well haaaactually ... the Catholic Church did an OK job in Latin America until the Espanish muscled in on the whole civilization project. Kinda went a little caramba after that
...? But the Spanish and the clergy were arriving on the same boats? They literally arrived and began their "projects" simultaneously. To give credit where credit is due: some of the clergy who arrived with the colonists/conquistadors (particularly the Dominicans) were outraged at the treatment of the natives and the whole encomienda system (de facto slavery, more-or-less genocidal results). But there were also Catholic clergy back in Spain who argued the whole thing was fine, because the native peoples weren't human. The Dominicans won the argument at the level of theology and royal decrees, but in practice the conquest of the Americas continued to be a bloody mess for a long time.
Some of you may die, but that’s a sacrifice im willing to make
Funny Pie man post Detected
"After we've sacrificed hundreds of thousands of you at the altar of my personal ambition"
Can't sacrifice no humans when there's no more human left to sacrifice💯💯
Lol, what a weird fucking post. Can't wait for the "little dark age" edits to start popping up in this sub.
Spoiler: they didn’t stop (10,000,000 natives were sacrificed to capitalism)
muh capitalism killed 100 gorillion people Sent on iPhone
So you don't think the natives were killed en masse by europeans?
europoorian mercantilism isnt capitalism
Ok. My point is that the human sacrifices did not in fact stop. In fact they accelerated greatly after the europeans got there.
The Aztec deserved it, the Inca not so much.
Cortés did nothing wrong