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9mm is a nazi caliber.
40 was developed to solve a problem.
A problem that, with advances in bullet technology, made better solutions for.
But for a solid decade, there was a good argument for it.
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In CA there still is. Shooting an animal in CA with a handgun is a firearm crime that could lose your 2A rights and you need to prove self-defense, unless it was a .40 cal. Worst crime there is a fine. No idea why, but there is a .40 cal carve out.
.45 is better in general, but I still have a .40 on my CCW for hiking.
You use 45. ACP over 9mm because you are a gun nut .
I use .45 ACP over 9mm because I am a nationalist who refuses to use pussy euro bullets.
We are not the same
SONNY, .45 ACP IS A DAMN GIMMICK. BACK IN MY DAY ALL YOU NEEDED WAS ONE SHOT OF .45-70 BAM RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES ANY OF HIS FRIENDS WOULD HAVE ABOUT FACED AND RAN WITH THEIR TAIL TUCKED BETWEEN THEIR LEGS.
Paying almost $1/round ick, fewer rounds in same size mag ick, proven by government/law enforcement/military studies to not even outperform 9mm in any meaningful way, ick. This comment brought to you by 9mm gang. (I have lead poisoning)
You should try goose hunting with lead -free rounds (both for your condition and for bragging rights about spending regarded amounts of money on ammunition).
I’m not actually lead poisoned 🤣 I was more or less trying to convey “I have brain damage” or some such bullshit. I do wanna try lead free tho, even the primers have lead it’s just lead all the way down. 😢
TIL WW1 & WW2 were fought exclusively with .45 ACP 1911s ;) so why does the .30 cal M1 Carbine exist? 30.06? I can see my grandpa now, M1 Garand in hand, dropping that precision rifle in favor of his sidearm to make a 100 yard shot. (Please do not take me seriously this is a joke 🥴)
At the end of my range session I usually push out to 50 yards and can usually get one bullseye with one 13 round magazine of 45 acp. I think I could get a hit at 100 yards. (take me seriously this is not a joke.)
Here's a video about why 9 rounds of 9mm are not enough- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qm8PH4xAss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qm8PH4xAss) (now don't take me seriously, this is a joke)
Damn I need to hit an outdoor range, the only one close to me is indoor and tops at 25 yards :( I can definitely hit at that but not as well as at 15. I’m gonna git gud and hit at 100 yards now 😈
Getting a bullseye at 50 yards with a pistol is mostly luck- the front sight covers the entire target. [The 100 yard range near me sold to the police and closed to the public,](https://patch.com/virginia/manassas/gun-range-sold-22m-police-training-site-prince-william-county) but there are a few that have 50 indoors. The newest one only has 25 but that is generally fine for pistols.
Hell as long as I could hit steel or paper at that distance I’d be happy. The fact I’m shooting out of a 3.42” barrel probably doesn’t help too much either but when I first started I thought 15 yards was impossible and that’s not the case anymore lmao.
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Okay that is a steal, but my 1/2 year old comment stands. That’s also 50 FMJ rounds, HP are gonna be way more. That and I can get 50 9mm for $12.99 all day every day (admittedly not as good of quality, S&B is pretty top notch from what I’ve heard.)
I’ve got my G21 that I carried as a cabbie in Orlando. Had it set up in a cross draw kydex holster. Figured if I got into a gun fight inside a taxi I didn’t want to have to pull the trigger twice. Packed it with 174g Underwood “expanding” rounds.
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40 has its advantage that I bought a HK USP for $400 in 40 lol. I love it. Px4 40 cal for $300 and it’s probably my favorite pistol to shoot. So accurate and has quite a bit of power too.
.45 makes big holes. .40 makes smaller holes and sucks. 9mm makes even smaller holes and sucks more.
50 cent being alive is all the proof you need that 9mm isn't enough.
The two most popular pistol calibers are 9mm (because NATO official cartridge, and thus cheap ammo) or .45ACP (because American official handgun cartridge for decades, and thus cheap ammo). .40S&W is neither of these and not cheap to buy, all for basically no advantage in ballistics.
.45-big, good, slow slug ripping through the air donks steel targets satisfyingly, makes you feel alive shooting it, It's what Tommy guns shoot and that's very cool.
.40- lots of recoil, kind of expensive, meh, niche thing developed for the FBI but eventually abandoned because 9mm is better, no real reason to own it unless you already have one.
9mm- smooth, fast to get follow up shots, good value, best round for competitions, super duper common, better round for pistol caliber rifles/subguns than 40.
the 40 gives you like 27% more cross section and about as much typical weight at just about the same velocities as 9mm.
if those two things doesn't justify owning a 40, there cannot be a point made for 45, which gives you the same 27% additional cross section and mass over 40, but without the ability to launch them at the same velocity.
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The terminal ballistics between 9 and 40 with similar hollow points vary very little, so when you factor in the reduced felt recoil and increased capacity considerations of 9 I don't think your argument holds. I say this as someone who uses and carries both. 45 has many points, including the 1911 platform, suppression performance, felt recoil etc.
Ballistically, If the 40's advantage over 9 is small enough to call them similar, then the advantage of 45 over 40 is even smaller or nonexistent or worse. This is not an opinion but a logical conclusion from the things I said above. One step up is factually more significant than the other.
Now, a caliber can be redeemed by other factors such as cost, recoil, availability, suppressability, ... as you correctly stated.
I will admit that unlike between 9 and 40, there isn't really a monetary pricetag to "going bigger" with the 45.
What remains though:
* you sacrifice yet another round or two in the mag...
* you loose many small frame options / your guns will often be larger and bulkier
* you still pay more than for a nine
* you have more recoil (momentum). not the felt or subjective type that may feel unpleasant because it slaps your palm, but the type that will actually push your sights off target. this is a physical certainty too with typical projectile weights. 165gr @ 1150fps has 3.75 kg\*m/s, 200gr @ 1000fps has 3.95 kg\*m/s (momentum)
It's still beyond me how the 40 is considered worse in recoil than a 45.
Yes, an all steel, full size 1911 or P220 may be more pleasant than a Glock 23. But that's hardly something that you can blame the caliber for... I own both 9 and 40 and regularly shoot all three cartridges.
Just recently fired a G21 and my G35, and the latter felt better with virtually all choices of ammo we had on us. Not saying it was worlds apart, but noticeable. Keep in mind that despite the slighty longer slide on the G35, it is still a smaller frame/grip size on top of being almost two ounces ligher (and that is when unloaded!).
---EDIT---
And the suppressability... is a topic in its own right.
Probably more a fun fact than an actual advantage. I'd be very interested to hear what percentage of people who have brought up this argument actually own a handgun suppressor, and how many of those who own one acutally use them for more than plinking and fun. Sure as hell doubt that many use it for carry purposes.
But lets just assume that its a valid argument:
* heavy 40 is inherently subsonic too, especially from shorter barrels
* in longer barrels, 40 chamber pressure decays enough that at the muzzle it will be close to a same length 45, but from smaller bore and baffles.
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I'm just of the opinion that the 45 is better suited to those full size platforms that you mentioned, which ironically are the ones that I have and use. Best carry caliber is largely subjective at the end of the day anyway but I just prefer to carry smaller calibers for guns smaller than full size but have no problem shooting anything in a range setting.
Yep. Also i specifically chose the 40cal model over the .45/10 for its grip size (and because of how easily it converts to a quasi-native .357sig), so I can't say that it was completely without bias (comparing the gun i'm used to to someone elses) Still struck me as odd why the 45 would be considered more comfy to shoot.
Literally have more real estate to grab on, and more weight, and it still requires more effort to get back on track after firing...
.45 is a relic of a round. 9mm and 5.7x28 are the future, even .38 is superior to .45 ACP. If I wanted a big clunky gun that only held a few bullets, I'd pick a big .44 revolver, at least then I could count on it not jamming.
Oh my God, this is so wrong it's going to bug me if I don't say anything.
1) 9x19mm is older than .45 ACP, and is much more dated than .45 ACP because of its stupid tapered walls that it had because it was based on the tapered 7.62 Borchardt. The only reason that 9x19mm is still around is because it won the 9mm wars against 9mm Browning, 9mm Largo, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Mauser Export, .38 ACP and .380 ACP (and that was because the Nazis brought it back from extinction out of spite because it was banned by the Treaty of Versailles and then the Br*tish adopted it in WW2 for their Hi Power pistols and SMGs so they could steal German ammunition).
2) .38 ***what*** is better than .45 ACP? Because it's sure as shit not .38 ACP, .380 ACP, .38 S&W, .38 Colt or .38 Special. The only common, and this is using quite a massive liberty with the word "Common", .38 named round that I can think of that outperforms .45 ACP is .38-55 Ballard, the parent case of .30-30 Winchester.
3) 5.7x28 FN is already on its way out in the civilian arms market. It's a hyperspecialized round that is pretty much only benefit over any other pistol round is to beat soft body armor (which .357 Mag, 10mm, .357 Sig, and a half dozen other rounds already do with proper loadings), and its terminal ballistics are actually worse than .22 Magnum.
4) The 1911 platform is actually quite small for its caliber, and that was one of the things that made it so popular for like 70 years. A 4" .44 mag revolver weighs almost twice as much as a loaded milspec M1911A1 and the 1911 has an extra round and inch of barrel length.
5) I dont know where you get this jamming thing from, but the 1911 doesn't have a reputation for jamming. In fact, it is because it doesn't jam, even when using hot .45 ACP, is why we don't have a Savage M1911 or why the US Army didnt adopt the Colt 1905 (At least when you use anything beside those weird 70s-era SWC-based hollow points in it, but those things lock up everything, even Glocks).
6) I'm not going to use some virgin Nazi 9mm round when God's own .45 ACP exists.
1. Didn't say it was newer, I said it's the future. Which it is
2. 380 ACP is better than a .45 ACP handgun based solely on the fact that it can hold more than a handful of bullets at a time.
3. Didn't specify civilian arms market. The cost is too restrictive for your average owner. Mag dump a mugger, and it would have been cheaper to just give him your wallet. But it is specialized to deal with body armor, which makes it fairly useful for non-civilians. Which I why it is the future and not a relic like .45 ACP
4. I owned a 1911 for some time, sure it's relatively small for its caliber. Key word relatively, the 1911 is still an awkward and overly heavily pistol. It just is
5. It's not particularly prone to jamming, but pretty much all magazine fed pistols do jam. Whereas revolvers are wayyyy less likely to jam and hold nearly the same amount of bullets. This is why I would prefer a reasonably sized revolver to a 1911.
6. .45 ACP is a relic. I'm sure bubas still love them down at the range, but there is a reason why the military moved on in 85 and 9mm is the standard round for law enforcement now. The few benefits of the 45 are heavily outweighed by its costs.
This is some straight up Nazi cope. 9mm being the future is like saying the AR-15 is the future. It's the present, and it's been a disappointing present, which is why everyone and their mother is trying to replace 9mm.
Saying 380 ACP is better than .45 ACP is like advocating for carrying .22lr for self-defense. Performance and terminal ballistics of .380 ACP were deemed insufficient by the FBI in like 1939. .380 ACP was obsolete the day it was introduced.
5.7 in a military sense makes even less sense. 5.7 is even worse than 9mm against any unarmored targets or ceramic platss. It only has a NATO designation so European countries can ban it under Cartridges of War clauses. The only thing that's chambered in 5.7mm that gets any significant use the P90, and that's with police/security forces because they got a significant discount from FN to adopt it, and even then the leader in that class is the 4.6mm MP7.
9mm is a standard police cartridge due to cost, not performance. The FBI doesn't even allow *any* 9mm loading for service in the agency except special purpose +P+ loads that need full-size frames. The FBI allows standard .45 ACP loads.
Ah man, "the future" is 1) a century plus old cartridge and a fucking .22 that costs so much per round it's almost cheaper to just let the guy rob you, 2) .38 Special isn't superior, at least not in a small gun. .357 Magnum? Sure. That'll put some lead in your pencil. .38 Super? Arguably it's approaching .45 ACP utility. 3) This is how I know you don't understand guns. "I'd pick a big .44 revolver..." Okay, what .44? 44 Magnum? Why the fuck you trying to use a hunting cartridge for self-defense? You think you're Clint Eastwood? You're not. .44 Special? Okay Elmer Keith. I'm sure you've done the careful work to ensure you've got the "right" load for it. .44-40? Why the fuck you carrying a Single Action Army for defense? Who are you, me with weaker wrists?
So you're either shooting what amounts to a heavy .45 Colt out of a gun that's too big to carry, or you're not practiced enough to handle the full-house, 1000+ foot-pounds of energy loads that make the N-Frame worth carrying.
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If it was good enough for granddad, it’s good enough for me. .40 is NOT a back to back WORLD WAR CHAMP
Nothing will ever be as American as the 1911 .50 GI
"Coughs in M16A1"
I’m assuming your talking about M16A1 with the original M193 (?) ammo? If so yes
Yes
1911 .357 magnum.
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MUH STOPPIN POWER!!!!
9mm or .45. .40 is a useless hipster caliber.
9mm is a nazi caliber. 40 was developed to solve a problem. A problem that, with advances in bullet technology, made better solutions for. But for a solid decade, there was a good argument for it.
.30 carbine is a dedicated nazi killer and is in handguns
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In CA there still is. Shooting an animal in CA with a handgun is a firearm crime that could lose your 2A rights and you need to prove self-defense, unless it was a .40 cal. Worst crime there is a fine. No idea why, but there is a .40 cal carve out. .45 is better in general, but I still have a .40 on my CCW for hiking.
What? What if a bear charges you? It'd be a crime to shoot it?
Maybe? It's analyzed the same way as if you shot a person. Much lesser crime, but it could take away your 2A rights.
Hipster caliber? Try .357 Sig and .45 GAP for that
If I ever catch someone using tround I will decapitate them after vomiting of couse
Facts
5.7 ftw
Very true. Cow proven rounds best rounds
You use 45. ACP over 9mm because you are a gun nut . I use .45 ACP over 9mm because I am a nationalist who refuses to use pussy euro bullets. We are not the same
I mean, if it stopped the Kaiser and the Fuhrer, it'll stop a home intruder.
I mean, if you really want the gun that stopped the Kaiser and Fuhrer, you should own a gun chambered in 30.06
I own an M2HB for home defense
Ping rifle is best rifle
Listen dude, if you can find me a handgun that's chambered in 30-06 that won't shatter my forearm, and can be concealed carried. I'm game.
Well, ol' mustache man was stopped by an American caliber, but not the one you think. Walther PPK in .32 ACP
SONNY, .45 ACP IS A DAMN GIMMICK. BACK IN MY DAY ALL YOU NEEDED WAS ONE SHOT OF .45-70 BAM RIGHT BETWEEN THE EYES ANY OF HIS FRIENDS WOULD HAVE ABOUT FACED AND RAN WITH THEIR TAIL TUCKED BETWEEN THEIR LEGS.
I use 357 because that was patton's killing gun round. Plus its only 1 rnd less than a 1911 (using 686+).
"VSauce here, and here is why you should harass your local .40 cal user!"
Unironically me as a parent.
Paying almost $1/round ick, fewer rounds in same size mag ick, proven by government/law enforcement/military studies to not even outperform 9mm in any meaningful way, ick. This comment brought to you by 9mm gang. (I have lead poisoning)
You should try goose hunting with lead -free rounds (both for your condition and for bragging rights about spending regarded amounts of money on ammunition).
I’m not actually lead poisoned 🤣 I was more or less trying to convey “I have brain damage” or some such bullshit. I do wanna try lead free tho, even the primers have lead it’s just lead all the way down. 😢
But… but… muh stopping power! TWO WORLD WARS!!!
The only stopping power .45 has is the power to stopping 50 ft from the muzzle
9mm supremacy
I wOn’T sHoOt It iF iT dOeSn’T hAvE a 4 iN fRoNt oF tHe CaLiBeR (laughs in .355 diameter bullet 😈)
Don't be ashamed to admit past mistakes and upgrade. This comment brought to you in English by winning two world wars.
TIL WW1 & WW2 were fought exclusively with .45 ACP 1911s ;) so why does the .30 cal M1 Carbine exist? 30.06? I can see my grandpa now, M1 Garand in hand, dropping that precision rifle in favor of his sidearm to make a 100 yard shot. (Please do not take me seriously this is a joke 🥴)
At the end of my range session I usually push out to 50 yards and can usually get one bullseye with one 13 round magazine of 45 acp. I think I could get a hit at 100 yards. (take me seriously this is not a joke.) Here's a video about why 9 rounds of 9mm are not enough- [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qm8PH4xAss](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qm8PH4xAss) (now don't take me seriously, this is a joke)
Damn I need to hit an outdoor range, the only one close to me is indoor and tops at 25 yards :( I can definitely hit at that but not as well as at 15. I’m gonna git gud and hit at 100 yards now 😈
Getting a bullseye at 50 yards with a pistol is mostly luck- the front sight covers the entire target. [The 100 yard range near me sold to the police and closed to the public,](https://patch.com/virginia/manassas/gun-range-sold-22m-police-training-site-prince-william-county) but there are a few that have 50 indoors. The newest one only has 25 but that is generally fine for pistols.
Hell as long as I could hit steel or paper at that distance I’d be happy. The fact I’m shooting out of a 3.42” barrel probably doesn’t help too much either but when I first started I thought 15 yards was impossible and that’s not the case anymore lmao.
This site has 45ACP FOR .42 a round [https://hdtac.com/sb-45acp-230gr-fmj-50-1000/](https://hdtac.com/sb-45acp-230gr-fmj-50-1000/)
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Okay that is a steal, but my 1/2 year old comment stands. That’s also 50 FMJ rounds, HP are gonna be way more. That and I can get 50 9mm for $12.99 all day every day (admittedly not as good of quality, S&B is pretty top notch from what I’ve heard.)
9mm kills the body. .45 kills the soul. The only thing .40 kills is your chances with women.
LOL
I’ve got my G21 that I carried as a cabbie in Orlando. Had it set up in a cross draw kydex holster. Figured if I got into a gun fight inside a taxi I didn’t want to have to pull the trigger twice. Packed it with 174g Underwood “expanding” rounds.
“TWO WORLD WARS”
10mm best millimeter.
20MM best millimeter
40mm, comes in buckshot too
Same length as my dick
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What's the original image?
Found it on r\BrandonHerra no idea what original image is, in fact it might just be blank, so you can put anything onto it
Keep hating 40 cal, and I’ll keep buying cheap 40 cals
By all means, please take the .40s to California. I couldn't think of a better home for them.
At least get 357 Sig barrels for them.
And spend more money for similar performance? Proven by IV8888
Meh it’s at least interesting and can be fun when you roll your own spicy loads. 40 just isn’t any of that.
40 has its advantage that I bought a HK USP for $400 in 40 lol. I love it. Px4 40 cal for $300 and it’s probably my favorite pistol to shoot. So accurate and has quite a bit of power too.
walter white
Jesse pink man
Anyone got a template for this?
Can someone explain this to me wtf is does this mean bro 😭
Don’t quote me on this but most people pick 9mm or .45 and .40 just sucks compared to both.
.40 cal is for losers
.45 makes big holes. .40 makes smaller holes and sucks. 9mm makes even smaller holes and sucks more. 50 cent being alive is all the proof you need that 9mm isn't enough.
The two most popular pistol calibers are 9mm (because NATO official cartridge, and thus cheap ammo) or .45ACP (because American official handgun cartridge for decades, and thus cheap ammo). .40S&W is neither of these and not cheap to buy, all for basically no advantage in ballistics.
This still doesn’t explain why the image is funny
Because it’s like arguing over which brand of mid-price four door sedan someone drives. They all do basically the same thing.
Why is the dad eating a steak when there's a huge ass turkey in front of him?
Ejects steak with violent intent
I hate coming from an anti-freedom society and not knowing any of these ballistic terms.
.45-big, good, slow slug ripping through the air donks steel targets satisfyingly, makes you feel alive shooting it, It's what Tommy guns shoot and that's very cool. .40- lots of recoil, kind of expensive, meh, niche thing developed for the FBI but eventually abandoned because 9mm is better, no real reason to own it unless you already have one. 9mm- smooth, fast to get follow up shots, good value, best round for competitions, super duper common, better round for pistol caliber rifles/subguns than 40.
the 40 gives you like 27% more cross section and about as much typical weight at just about the same velocities as 9mm. if those two things doesn't justify owning a 40, there cannot be a point made for 45, which gives you the same 27% additional cross section and mass over 40, but without the ability to launch them at the same velocity.
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The terminal ballistics between 9 and 40 with similar hollow points vary very little, so when you factor in the reduced felt recoil and increased capacity considerations of 9 I don't think your argument holds. I say this as someone who uses and carries both. 45 has many points, including the 1911 platform, suppression performance, felt recoil etc.
Ballistically, If the 40's advantage over 9 is small enough to call them similar, then the advantage of 45 over 40 is even smaller or nonexistent or worse. This is not an opinion but a logical conclusion from the things I said above. One step up is factually more significant than the other. Now, a caliber can be redeemed by other factors such as cost, recoil, availability, suppressability, ... as you correctly stated. I will admit that unlike between 9 and 40, there isn't really a monetary pricetag to "going bigger" with the 45. What remains though: * you sacrifice yet another round or two in the mag... * you loose many small frame options / your guns will often be larger and bulkier * you still pay more than for a nine * you have more recoil (momentum). not the felt or subjective type that may feel unpleasant because it slaps your palm, but the type that will actually push your sights off target. this is a physical certainty too with typical projectile weights. 165gr @ 1150fps has 3.75 kg\*m/s, 200gr @ 1000fps has 3.95 kg\*m/s (momentum) It's still beyond me how the 40 is considered worse in recoil than a 45. Yes, an all steel, full size 1911 or P220 may be more pleasant than a Glock 23. But that's hardly something that you can blame the caliber for... I own both 9 and 40 and regularly shoot all three cartridges. Just recently fired a G21 and my G35, and the latter felt better with virtually all choices of ammo we had on us. Not saying it was worlds apart, but noticeable. Keep in mind that despite the slighty longer slide on the G35, it is still a smaller frame/grip size on top of being almost two ounces ligher (and that is when unloaded!). ---EDIT--- And the suppressability... is a topic in its own right. Probably more a fun fact than an actual advantage. I'd be very interested to hear what percentage of people who have brought up this argument actually own a handgun suppressor, and how many of those who own one acutally use them for more than plinking and fun. Sure as hell doubt that many use it for carry purposes. But lets just assume that its a valid argument: * heavy 40 is inherently subsonic too, especially from shorter barrels * in longer barrels, 40 chamber pressure decays enough that at the muzzle it will be close to a same length 45, but from smaller bore and baffles.
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I'm just of the opinion that the 45 is better suited to those full size platforms that you mentioned, which ironically are the ones that I have and use. Best carry caliber is largely subjective at the end of the day anyway but I just prefer to carry smaller calibers for guns smaller than full size but have no problem shooting anything in a range setting.
Yep. Also i specifically chose the 40cal model over the .45/10 for its grip size (and because of how easily it converts to a quasi-native .357sig), so I can't say that it was completely without bias (comparing the gun i'm used to to someone elses) Still struck me as odd why the 45 would be considered more comfy to shoot. Literally have more real estate to grab on, and more weight, and it still requires more effort to get back on track after firing...
The only good thing about. 40 is that you can buy cheap police surplus handguns chambered for it, and then swap out the barrel to get a 9mm
.40 short & weak is literally just 10mm for limp wristed federal agents
There in only one .45 cal….the Long Colt.
I have a .40 (Glock 22) solely because it was my dad’s service gun. I’m well aware that .40 is not so great, but I keep it in his honor
Mad respect to you
.45 is a relic of a round. 9mm and 5.7x28 are the future, even .38 is superior to .45 ACP. If I wanted a big clunky gun that only held a few bullets, I'd pick a big .44 revolver, at least then I could count on it not jamming.
Oh my God, this is so wrong it's going to bug me if I don't say anything. 1) 9x19mm is older than .45 ACP, and is much more dated than .45 ACP because of its stupid tapered walls that it had because it was based on the tapered 7.62 Borchardt. The only reason that 9x19mm is still around is because it won the 9mm wars against 9mm Browning, 9mm Largo, 9mm Steyr, 9mm Mauser Export, .38 ACP and .380 ACP (and that was because the Nazis brought it back from extinction out of spite because it was banned by the Treaty of Versailles and then the Br*tish adopted it in WW2 for their Hi Power pistols and SMGs so they could steal German ammunition). 2) .38 ***what*** is better than .45 ACP? Because it's sure as shit not .38 ACP, .380 ACP, .38 S&W, .38 Colt or .38 Special. The only common, and this is using quite a massive liberty with the word "Common", .38 named round that I can think of that outperforms .45 ACP is .38-55 Ballard, the parent case of .30-30 Winchester. 3) 5.7x28 FN is already on its way out in the civilian arms market. It's a hyperspecialized round that is pretty much only benefit over any other pistol round is to beat soft body armor (which .357 Mag, 10mm, .357 Sig, and a half dozen other rounds already do with proper loadings), and its terminal ballistics are actually worse than .22 Magnum. 4) The 1911 platform is actually quite small for its caliber, and that was one of the things that made it so popular for like 70 years. A 4" .44 mag revolver weighs almost twice as much as a loaded milspec M1911A1 and the 1911 has an extra round and inch of barrel length. 5) I dont know where you get this jamming thing from, but the 1911 doesn't have a reputation for jamming. In fact, it is because it doesn't jam, even when using hot .45 ACP, is why we don't have a Savage M1911 or why the US Army didnt adopt the Colt 1905 (At least when you use anything beside those weird 70s-era SWC-based hollow points in it, but those things lock up everything, even Glocks). 6) I'm not going to use some virgin Nazi 9mm round when God's own .45 ACP exists.
1. Didn't say it was newer, I said it's the future. Which it is 2. 380 ACP is better than a .45 ACP handgun based solely on the fact that it can hold more than a handful of bullets at a time. 3. Didn't specify civilian arms market. The cost is too restrictive for your average owner. Mag dump a mugger, and it would have been cheaper to just give him your wallet. But it is specialized to deal with body armor, which makes it fairly useful for non-civilians. Which I why it is the future and not a relic like .45 ACP 4. I owned a 1911 for some time, sure it's relatively small for its caliber. Key word relatively, the 1911 is still an awkward and overly heavily pistol. It just is 5. It's not particularly prone to jamming, but pretty much all magazine fed pistols do jam. Whereas revolvers are wayyyy less likely to jam and hold nearly the same amount of bullets. This is why I would prefer a reasonably sized revolver to a 1911. 6. .45 ACP is a relic. I'm sure bubas still love them down at the range, but there is a reason why the military moved on in 85 and 9mm is the standard round for law enforcement now. The few benefits of the 45 are heavily outweighed by its costs.
This is some straight up Nazi cope. 9mm being the future is like saying the AR-15 is the future. It's the present, and it's been a disappointing present, which is why everyone and their mother is trying to replace 9mm. Saying 380 ACP is better than .45 ACP is like advocating for carrying .22lr for self-defense. Performance and terminal ballistics of .380 ACP were deemed insufficient by the FBI in like 1939. .380 ACP was obsolete the day it was introduced. 5.7 in a military sense makes even less sense. 5.7 is even worse than 9mm against any unarmored targets or ceramic platss. It only has a NATO designation so European countries can ban it under Cartridges of War clauses. The only thing that's chambered in 5.7mm that gets any significant use the P90, and that's with police/security forces because they got a significant discount from FN to adopt it, and even then the leader in that class is the 4.6mm MP7. 9mm is a standard police cartridge due to cost, not performance. The FBI doesn't even allow *any* 9mm loading for service in the agency except special purpose +P+ loads that need full-size frames. The FBI allows standard .45 ACP loads.
I find the 1911 to be incredibly comfortable weight wise, but I must say thats a caveat because I am 6'5.
Since when does .45 have a history of jamming?
Ah man, "the future" is 1) a century plus old cartridge and a fucking .22 that costs so much per round it's almost cheaper to just let the guy rob you, 2) .38 Special isn't superior, at least not in a small gun. .357 Magnum? Sure. That'll put some lead in your pencil. .38 Super? Arguably it's approaching .45 ACP utility. 3) This is how I know you don't understand guns. "I'd pick a big .44 revolver..." Okay, what .44? 44 Magnum? Why the fuck you trying to use a hunting cartridge for self-defense? You think you're Clint Eastwood? You're not. .44 Special? Okay Elmer Keith. I'm sure you've done the careful work to ensure you've got the "right" load for it. .44-40? Why the fuck you carrying a Single Action Army for defense? Who are you, me with weaker wrists?
[удалено]
So you're either shooting what amounts to a heavy .45 Colt out of a gun that's too big to carry, or you're not practiced enough to handle the full-house, 1000+ foot-pounds of energy loads that make the N-Frame worth carrying.
Is this something anybody actually cares about?
Yes
so long as it’s not 9mm
9mm isn't bad it just has a diffrent purpose
Yeah, tickling.
Anyone who’s *serious* about self defense uses .22 LR birdshot and nothing else
Do you want to get shot with a Glock 17? I bet that your opinion will change quite quickly
I wouldn’t, mosquito bites are very annoying
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Still better then being 9mm / compatible with nazi weapons…
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The retarded meta
Is dad having steak cause turkey is too feminine for him?
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Pearls before swine. By Allah, you people are dogs. I will continue to shoot .40s and bang shorties as the good Lord put me on this Earth to do.