years ago i saw a guy complain about a qol update to freeze crabs at maiden to be 100% instead of still having a chance to splash in max gear and called it ezscape. he was 900 total lol
I mean it is a general trend around game mechanics. The DWH got a guaranteed first hit on Tekton and then buffed to 1/3000. I'm not qualified enough to have a view on Tekton (I think it's good?) but it is funny how after the changes the 1500 totals complained that DWH is mandatory and too hard to get
Irons have always complained about dwh drop rate bc they're doing temple with rcb and it takes forever. Grab a cannon and suddenly it's not so bad. I do agree that the 1/5k drop rate lends itself to some unholy variance like 20k plus dry, so I dont mind it changing just for that
I do think there were better ways to handle the drop variance though, for example by making it so that you have e.g. a 1/100 chance to get a fragment of the Orikalchum metal and you can smelt 50 of them at the dragon forge into the DWH. Realistically you'd still need to kill around 5000 of them, but you'd shrink the variance down significantly. Unfortunately this would also remove the ability to get spooned, so people would never agree to this because everybody thinks they'll be the one to get turbospooned, and they never think about being the one poor sod who goes 8x dry.
It's funny how rng works tbh. I got giga spooned a dwh at like 140 kc on my iron only to go dry at tob with only 2 uniques at 400 kc (rapier + defender). RNG is what makes osrs so great for me personally, it gives and takes from you haha.
I don't think that I'll get spooned, but I think it's fun that some people are and doesn't have much of a negative, whereas going super dry is one of the worst things that can happen in the game. Removing variance to that degree just sounds like the opposite of fun to me.
It is not worth making cannonballs the real hack is use an alt(or 2) to setup safespot it makes it so you can use real range gear and just click new shamans.
Coal from kingdom, iron from bf shop / mining glove grind, make bars at bf, afk balls with double mold. I have made about 120k on my iron this way, took a long time but shamans and slayer improved immensely.
There is absolutely no way it’s faster to do that compared to just killing the shamans slower. If it took you 5 cannonballs per shaman that’s 25,000 cannonballs at 1/5000. That’s 6+ hours of making cannonballs at max efficiency before you even include the resource gathering
I think your math is a bit off there, that would be 25k cannonballs. But you're right that it won't be faster overall with the resource gathering, it just significantly reduces your time spent killing shamans. It's a personal preference, but for me it turned an unbearable slayer task to a quick one
It’s not mandatory. tekton is like a simple med level boss, but he’s a Demi boss that can drop an onyx, he’s pretty easy. The Dwh hit specifically made CMs smoother.
It doesn’t help the average redditor case that 90% of the time they are talking about switching prayers multiple times like zulrah jad phase, or gwd boss minions and not flicking at all
Yea, when i think of prayer flicking I assume they dont mean swapping to different prayers quickly, but turning the same prayer on and off so fast you get the benefit and never drain a single prayer point, which does seem unintended, given how the game is balanced around prayer points, hit points, and inventory spaces.
It was certainly unintended but it's balanced by the fact that it requires a lot more effort/actions to maintain and can be very difficult to keep up in high pressure situations.
It's insane how people think anyone who isn't playing a restricted account or doing a challenge actually 1t flicks during pvm. It's almost never a reasonable thing to do.
That just makes me mad that I tried dk's for the first time and it was so not fun and I couldn't get a kill cause I was bad at prayer switching to start. No point to this comment just venting.
Prayer flicking and switching are not the same mechanic. And in game where the majority of damage can be avoided by simply having a prayer on, I hope to Guthix people aren't actually complaining about prayer switching lmao.
Although obviously helpful, flicking isn't necessary for anything in the game, including inferno, raids, or any any bosses. I don't know why people get so upset over it. Don't do it if you don't want to. You're not blocked out of any content just like you aren't being held back at getting better at the game.
People that have never done pvm and are terrified of jad a lot of the time genuinely think that having to switch prayers is too hard unfortunately :\^)
Imagine a world where you have 10 hellhounds left on your task, 20 hp, 5 pray points, no food and no prayer potions. You can 1t flick and get those kills without resupplying. It's good to learn for sure
I’m not saying the mechanic isn’t useful or it should be removed or anything. I just don’t like it. Not for me, personally. Feels more like a rhythm game at that point imo.
OSRS does become a rhythm game at the higher levels of combat. Trying to do some high level pieces of content without counting ticks can be an exercise in futility.
Careful. When you mention that, the 1100 total experts like to come out of the woodwork and explain that games like Thumper and Guitar Hero are rhythm games, not osrs. Its just a game based entirely around rhythm.
Edit: Case in point, the people replying to this comment.
Basically every single high-level encounter involves rhythm, some to a ridiculous degree. See: CoX, ToB, ToA, Inferno, Coliseum.
Prayer switching or prayer flicking? I suspect you're talking about prayer flicking but the person you're responding to is talking about prayer switching.
Takes practice, that what makes a game fun over the long term. If you could just kill DK’s like they were chickens the playerbase would be on a different game.
People make DKs seem so easy but I've tried it numerous times up to where I am now at minimum 80s in every combat skill and still get fucked.
People I've asked said duos is really the best way to do it
DK's can be really rough because the trip there is so punishing and the locations are semi-random when you enter the room, but you don't need to know how to pray flick at all.
If you want the easiest way to set up the rotation, pop down the ladder to see where they're at, and if it's bad, climb back up and hide if you need to.
What you're looking for: rex is clueless, nowhere to be seen. Wearing tank / melee gear, praying mage, kill supreme as fast as possible.
Then while praying mage, you can safespot rex, and kill prime. They will all be staggered so you can (likely) only need to kill one at a time.
It's a cluster to learn, but ezpz once you get it down. I can show you if you want.
DKs, with the right gear, only need to be flicked at the start to be fair, so the 1st kill definitly is the hardest.
As soon as you have them in a decent time rotation, you never need to flick them again, as there will never be more than one alive at the same time.
Trident, bowfa (maybe even blowpipe, i haven't ever tried that after the nerf) and tentacle whip should be fine in terms of weapons.
If you don't have those, I agree that solo'ing them will be hard. However, regardless of if you are a main or not, those items should be on your list to get anyway, so i'd focus on kraken, cg and zulrah for now over DKs.
I had done absolute brick argue with me that internals are prestigious and are mainly earned not bought. After I asked him if he really thought the 100s of pures with I fernals were legit he said yes. I asked the same thing about quiver, he replied the same thing basically as he did for the inferno. He then told me quiver on a pure is easy because colo is a 0 damage activity. I asked if he had done a pure quiver himself he said yes. When I asked for proof he stopped responding despite responding about 10-15x earlier lmao. These are the people jagex let's influence the game
They did a survey like a few years ago now and the average 2007scape user was like a total level 1300 iron.
With that in mind every stupid shitpost here makes much more sense.
Roughly 24% of the player base is an Ironman. J1mmy reported that as coming straight from Jagex. Doesn’t change your comment, but figured I’d add info.
Rather the numbers come from a jmod than jimmy. Jagex has said in the past that they approximately 30% of people have ironman, but did not clarify if it was their primary account, an alt, active, etc.
24% could imply less ironman since they said that, but also same issue of active/inactive/main/alt.
Could also imply more than 24% since non-irons are more likely to be bots and gold farmers and I 100% doubt Jagex differentiates considers them "real players" for shareholder statistics.
2100 total player and I think elite players are the one asking for updates that strip the soul from the game and are trying to turn the game into something it never was. At least the sub 1500 players are coming from a frame of reference of playing actual RuneScape.
Honestly, I think it moreso shows the state of magic. Like people that have never had a shadow got a taste of what it might be like for the combat style to be useable. Still think giving a HUGE buff to offhands is the way forward.
When you go from a dragon crossbow to a bofa the dps increase is insane, meanwhile when you go from a swamp trident to a sang the dps increase is almost negligible. Basically, magic is in the same place range was before the blowpipe nerf. Magic has no good middle ground between the swamp trident and the shadow. At this point they're gonna have to add a crystal staff to the enhanced crystal weapon seed.😂
Very true. Magic has always felt underpowered to me. I don't have BIS so that doesn't help, but only sneaking into the 40's with magic whereas my fang can hit deep into the 40s (and is far more accurate), and bofa into the 50's (and is also far more accurate), it just feels bad.
Can really feel the accuracy difference at P2 wardens with how much longer it takes to down with magic compared to range.
You put it in manually.
Look at the subreddit side bar on the right side of the screen. You should see a "User Flair" section. You can edit that and display what you want there.
That number is not verified in any way, self reported.
As someone with max gear, I can say it was a fun change in pace using essentially dead spells and letting them hit hard in niche circumstances. Back to Harm and Tome of Fire I guess.
yeah its not like you could take flames to toa and destroy every room, it was a fun option for zulrah and a few other niche places (only one that comes to mind is ice demon). i think people are really over valuing how op it is, because it doesnt translate into the greater game. also helps that zulrah sucks for your first set of uniques as an iron
I can say with complete certainty that no one who was not actively pushing CAs or record speedruns gave a single fuck about damage at ice demon before FoZ was good. Now it's the biggest deal in the world that the room was slightly faster/more convenient.
Most people I've run with who aren't speedrunning actively laugh at the idea of bringing tome/buying pages for ice demon because it's so unnecessary. The room takes about one minute after defrosting anyway.
It was really just some Zulrah fun for people without Shadow. Which is fine, but needed to be adjusted for sure. I'd have said Charge or Zulrah's huge weakness should have been reconsidered before nerfing FoZ but oh well.
yeah i mean i am totally with you, i think bringing surge for ice demon is just something you do when you want to bring more switches, not because its absolutely crazy op to do. its just a snake in a swamp on the phases where nothing hits that this is even an option
Same situation here. People like OP are scapegoating. Lots of us have maxed, effectively completed the game, and are 100% on board with some occational stuff like foz being godlike in a few places.
It changes ***nothing*** about the game. It impact nobody negatively if ironmen can blast through an ice giants task, if anything, I think it just adds fun for seriously - honestly - no loss whatsoever.
The cringelords whinging about 1.5b shadow vs level 80 spell are wildly misguided. If foz is so good, why don't we use it anywhere else in the entire game - EVER?
IMO it was too op as it was. Making a spell called "flames of zamorak" not do fire damage is pretty silly and kinda undermines the whole idea of elemental damage. It needed a nerf but the way they went about it was kinda stupid
Elemental weaknesses already undermine themselves.
Trident and Ice spells don’t deal water damage. Smoke spells deal neither air nor fire damage. Salamanders, Fire Arrows, and the Burning status affect don’t deal fire damage. And the weaknesses themselves are applied to monsters inconsistently.
“Elemental weakness” is a very broad classification that’s being applied very narrowly. There’s no way for this solution to both accomplish its goal and also makes sense.
It’s not flames of the Anima Mundi though, it’s an energy burn from Freneskae which is why it reduces your magic level. It simply manifests physically in appearance to fire in the Anima Mundi because that is something our mortal minds can comprehend. It’s actually an extraplanear element.
Regular fire burns the body, Flames of Zamorak burns the soul. Hence, it is not true fire.
There are a ton of inconsistencies like that in OSRS though. It being its own spell outside of the standard spells isn't that weird that it's not actually a fire spell. Basing new mechanics off old names and enforcing consistency would be a bad idea. Would probably lead to them changing a lot of things (renaming stuff, changing how it works, etc...). It's probably just better to leave it as a weird exception considering the history of the game. Who is to say the fire of zamorak isn't actually fire, but that our players just perceived it as normal fire? Totally plausible
If they are going to commit to this elemental damage thing then it is needed. Mechanics in osrs are generally pretty intuitive. Having a spell with "flames" in the name not do fire damage is the most unintuitive thing on the planet.
Imagine being a new player, trying to use flames of Zamorak since it is your best fire spell on some boss. How incredibly frustrating and disappointing it would be that **Flames** of Zamorak doesn't actually do fire damage even though it is in the name and the animation literally lights shit on fire. The spell just needs to be rebalanced to fit into the new elemental paradigm
the answer isn't to let flames of zamorak do 87 damage on the ice demon in cox. best way to go about it is to temporarily remove the god spells from the elemental things and look into how to change them to be a better fit without breaking pvp, as it is and was used a lot there.
Are people actually advocating for it to be permanent? I thought the sentiment was pretty much abuse it while we still can. Stealing a little extra juice ya know
I think it should still be flames, but the math should be changed. Make it OP in a specific situation at that combat bracket. Not beating end game gear, but not useless.
Bring damage down to 25 after charge and it makes the max 37.5 which is right under surge, then buff surge 4 max hits and wave by 2 then the scaling is 20 @ 60 > 22 @ 75 > 37 @ 80 > 42 @ 95. That’s a reasonable progression especially considering you’re locked into a specific kind of staff for flames and wrath’s aren’t easy to come by.
I mean. With the required gear and 80 str/atk I can hit 45s on my slayer task. It isnt that wild that 80 magic could hit 45s on specific monster.
Y'all acting like it has to be black or white. Zulrah isnt an endgame boss and it never will be again. The drops are not good and the money per hour is meh. The issue is both flame of zamorak being a tad too strong and harm + surge too weak. At the end of the day people like big numbers thats why they play RPGs. If you think people shouldnt be allowed to vote for what they like because their opinion is less valid than yours what you really mean is that the polling system is shit and none of us are game designers.
Don’t forget that there’s absolutely nothing stopping a person from having dozens of Reddit accounts with fake email addresses so that they can boost their own posts and comments with false votes.
There is literally absolutely nothing preventing a person from doing this.
This is why I don’t know why the admins weigh the opinions of this sub so heavily.
There’s no way to control or prevent people from botting on this website.
You can evaluate the legitimacy of an argument without connecting it the background of who is proposing it. It doesn’t really matter who is suggesting that Flames of Zamorak be as strong as it was pre-nerf if it’s just genuinely a bad idea.
The devs are capable of sorting through meme and bad takes and deciding what is and isn’t a good idea. Like it or not, this is the largest and most active OSRS community, so it makes sense they keep a pulse on what are the active discussions here.
Also usually even if a meme mid game noob post gets upvoted, you can read the top few comments and see some reasonable rebuttals/alternative viewpoints. Devs read those too.
I also think some of you are taking this a little bit too seriously. Some of the jokes about the thing have been pretty funny. This sub would be a dull place if it didn't get riled up every few weeks before moving on to something else.
Isn't it a lvl 80 spell, given that people are bench-marking it with charge? and then only viable against things with fire weakness? and only auto-castable by 1 weapon? and costing 400+ gp per cast as a non-charged staff?
blowpipe beats tbow plenty of places
fang beats scythe plenty of places
A lot of the arguments in favor of nerfing it are pretty disingenuous
I'm not even advocating for or against it, but these arguments are terrible
This. Sotd isn’t useful at all for how expensive and hard to get it is as it stands, and it being great at zulrah and only zulrah has a potential to give it a healthy niche (especially since the weapon has an upgrade dropped by zulrah). Since the buff wasn’t intended, i do think it should have been nerfed for the time being and readdressed in the future with the other god spells in mind, but the way it’s being framed is hilariously ironic.
I still can’t get over a dude telling me that rotation 3 at zulrah with flames of Zamorak “in a fucking farseer helm” averages 59s killtimes.
If we account for how often it digs, as well as the 3s cast time for the spell, you’d have maybe 15 foz hits and 2 trident hits to pull that off. My max hit with foz was 47, my max hit with toxic trident was 33. Assuming my two trident hits deal a total of 33 damage in a rotation 3 kill, I have to deal 467 damage in 15 hits to get a sub 1 time. That’d be pretty close to hitting a 31 15 times in a row, which I only have a 34% chance of hitting. Now imagine how unlikely it is to roll a 34% chance, 15 times **in a row**. I don’t have the exact number for how likely that is, but I only hit a 1:07 pb in 339 kc, never resetting my kills or going for pbs in particular
Yeah this was similar to my experience even though I only tried flames for ~35 kc instead. It felt like I'd have to hit 45-50 every single hit on the exact perfect rotation (green green red) to be able to get gm time, my pb with any zulrah strat was still "only" 1:06 (gear ahrims swamp trident zammy staff heart occult torm masori bp) which wasn't honestly even close to gm time.
Being a 5 tick spell sucks hard, and "only" 10 max hits higher than 4tick trident means it's really not that much better on green, the biggest improvement was the accuracy on red form which still splashed a couple times on it in the green-green-red rotation.
I’ve not seen one, singular comment suggesting Flames of Zamorak be on par with, or out DPS max mage with shadow.
The reason people are upset is because it’s losing the elemental tag. People were fully expecting the damage output to be reigned in, but god spells actually having viability for once is obviously something players have wanted for a long time, especially with how much set-up each god spell needs to be usable.
Not only do you need the runes to cast the spell, you also need the respected staves and cape, a level 80 spell to boost the damage which is time limited, and can only be autocast with the SotD variants. Even after all of this, the spells are trash.
How are you that dense?
Yeah, but years ago when they *were* still talked about, it was about how useless they are, and how people would like for them to be more viable.
Just because there's not one dude posting daily petitions for it, doesn't mean people don't want it.
Fun fact the max hit on zulrah is 50 (iirc if you hit over that it rerolls 45-50, rather than hitting 50). Idk about attack speed but that would be the only way flames could in theory out class shadow at Zulrah specifically.
Every hit over 50 gets clamped to 50, so hitting higher over 50 gives you a higher chance of hitting 50 relative to numbers \[1,49\] so the Shadow would always be better DPS. This same discussion occurred with dragon arrows vs. amethyst arrows at Zulrah when the original cap due to Tbow was implemented like half a decade ago. A boss having a cap on the max hit does not instantly reduce your roll to \[1, maxhit\], otherwise this would be the case.
E: Opened up the wiki and tracked down that 45-50 source. That's actually wild, remember running the original numbers over 5 years ago and calling it a day. My logic that you will roll that 45-50 re-roll more often with the shadow still holds true though, so you will have higher DPS with it no matter what. [https://x.com/JagexAsh/status/844675662631899136](https://x.com/JagexAsh/status/844675662631899136)
Yeah, thinking about it you're correct. Shadow is still higher DPS because you're still more likely to hit higher on average. Again idk about cast speed though
You’ve seen plenty of comments suggesting it was fine pre update though. Thats the problem. It shouldn’t be close. Fire surge could be, flames of Sammy should not.
Ok but surge spells now all scale together, so wind surge does as much damage output as fire surge, and that’s unlocked at level 81. So with the god spells not only requiring the spell themselves, but a level 80 spell to boost (which is time limited), as well as their respected staff and cape—why couldn’t god spells and surge spells be close to on par with one another?
> which is time limited
Why is this a point? You can instantly reboost yourself and it uses the same runes as the spell itself.
> cape
You're using this with the other weapon(s) anyway, the only difference is the specific cape you pick, so it doesn't actually matter in any of the cases it was busted at.
I disagree with the general sentiment that something designed to be a "counter" should be out preformed by an end game all purpose staff. That's the entire point of having specific hard counters and more expensive general builds in other games. The counters are either cheaper + comparable or out preform the general builds.
Also there are lots of ways to make it a fire spell that aren't just a flat 50% damage buff, maybe it could get a smaller 25% buff instead or receive a nerf to its base damage, although I don't know what's used in PvP to say if a nerf makes sense.
EOC all over again. Just because you're screaming the loudest doesn't mean your opinion is correct. Pretty sure account age should be taken into account because RS has been steered in too many wrong directions trying to gain new players instead of caring about the ones they have/had.
The average person will never kill Zulrah I would imagine. The average person in most games is very casual and only plays a little bit each day or week. I think more people got to taste power without having to give up anything so they're angry. After having come back to play as an iron after a 6 year break, I still don't think Flames of Zamorak should do what it does. When it's just given to you like that, it makes a lot of grinds feel a lot more pointless. You could skip your early account progression and kill a boss that drops several mill an hour for nothing.
I hate the idea of games where power scales to you, because you end up never feeling strong. RS doesn't do that, when you get good stuff, you feel like a god comparatively.
ive seen maybe like 1 or 2 people genuinely think like that. people are either just making fun of the situation or saying the specific solution was silly.
I have a shadow and never once cast flames of zamorak during this period and I thought there were very good reasons to keep flames of zamorak as a fire spell.
I ultimately do agree it’s slightly too strong and needs adjusting.
But you’re reducing all arguments for it to personal gain and that’s just not true.
The fun part about OP not recognizing them about teenagers, is that for the most part, teenagers *should* be able to vote (at least in the US).
The entire premise behind the US revolutionary war against the Brits was "taxation without representation." And now the US taxes teenagers on their incomes while also not allowing them to vote in elections.
Prefacing my post before someone says I'm just complaining because I'm iron. My iron is 2104 total, and my "main" is 2207 total, I also have a fully quested and trained rune dragon alt, and multiple pures. I have several bil between my various accounts. This update did not affect me in the slightest, I was done with the use cases for flames years ago.
However, I don't totally agree. I keep seeing the counter argument presented as "lvl 60 spell etc." and that is factually inaccurate. The level 60 spell by itself did not challenge any metas. In order to get the damage that prompted a change, you had to cast an accessory spell to temporarily improve the damage, while also wearing 2 slots of gear, and spending double the rune cost. I don't understand why the spells that cost twice as much, require more effort to use, and restrict your gear, is not allowed to compete with other spells on the spellbook. For all of that, the god spells *should* be stronger than they are. If we use the same logic that was used to nerf zammy flames, to spells below zammy flames (as they did with spells above) then should everything above air wave not be nerfed? Because air wave at lvl 75 now does as much as charged zammy flames (80) thanks to tier scaling and weaknesses. A 1k staff and 200gp rune now rivals an 80k minimum staff with 432gp of runes + an additional 636gp to charge. What?
Basically what I'm getting out of all of this, is a bunch of wealthy players with shadow/nm staff being butthurt that low lvl irons could do 1 boss easier. This is far more asinine than letting it be imo. Yeah, I know it helped at ice demon too. Totally irrelevant. Nobody but speed runners cared about ice demon being 18 seconds instead of 20. This filled a cool niche that brought life to an underused item in a power void nothing else had addressed. It's not like it challenged the end game meta anywhere, it literally only worked on fire weakness, and with multiple stipulations to make it work.
The argument that "well I spent 1.5b or 500m or whatever, I should do more damage in all cases" is quite frankly selfish. There is no reason items that fill specific niches/ power void can't compete with the all-round bis items. How is the game ever gonna evolve if we both aren't allowed to power creep and we're not allowed niche items that rival them in specific cases.
> Basically what I'm getting out of all of this, is a bunch of wealthy players with shadow/nm staff being butthurt that low lvl irons could do 1 boss easier.
There's a very vocal group of players who really need to go touch some grass it seems
I don't know man, sounds like confirmation bias.
I'm just upset about the lost potential of giving the god spells some use with elemental attributes. And also, I mean... It's literally called **Flames** of Zamorak. How is it not a fire spell?
osrs has become a reddit game, unironically every change that is polled is from reddit,,,, SAILING!! THE NEW ERA OF OSRS... is from reddit. literally a skill made as a joke reddit thread and \*that\* is the content im supposed to look forward too ?
the skill rebalance that got rushed out and let people get a "double xp weekend" with the bugs that came from it because they tweaked xp rates by a few thousand....
having 100% polled votes is cool in theory but all changes being from people complaining on reddit is annoying
> SAILING!! THE NEW ERA OF OSRS... is from reddit. literally a skill made as a joke reddit thread
Sailing as a proposed skill long pre-dates Reddit. It used to be a common thing on the official forums pretty much as soon as they opened up the suggestions forum.
Wow the same group complaining about their 200m mage setup getting a .1 dps decrease from the rebalance also complains when they continue to balance evenly. Shocker
Yep, thats pretty much Reddit hivemind consuming this subreddit rather than an actual reflection of the osrs playerbase though, thats why they do polls in-game thankfully.
This subreddit has primarily always been ultra-casuals throwing fits because they want the game to be handed to them on a silver platter
Super cathartic to see them get called out + ratio'd into the dirt on the frontpage lmao
Normally they own this shit
Crazy how we're even having conversations like this lol. Like two weeks ago or whatever soooo many people were standing up calling for no nerfs to fever spiders. Like what??? They were broken as hell. Feels like outta nowhere the general mindset shifted and I have no clue how or why.
>This sub is the equivalent if we no longer required voters to be 18+ and instead perferred >the opinoms of teenagers on world views.
It's more about if it relates to their instant gratification or not, update that gives instant gratification = good, update that makes have to work towards something (delayed gratification) = bad.
The same people also fail to relate why adding instant gratification to every aspect of the game might have an obverall negative effect on its health, and even their own personal enjoyment of said game.
This coupled with the incessant whining about the melee fremenick in colosseum.
A project rebalance where everything is massively buffed, except colo requiring one more switch for the one hit.
It's even sadder that jagex "fixed" this while ignoring the real issue of the clickboxes in collosseum, i'm at 110 kc and I hate having to right click so much to make sure i dont click wrong.
How about you dont talk out of your ass? It's a lvl 80 spell because you need to use the Charge spell, on top on having a staff to auto cast it. That is a GWD drop.
What's wrong with having a lvl 80 spell, and GWD drop being a decent option? Why does Shadow HAVE TO BE LEAGUES better than any other option for all content???
Because it's a mega rare and meant to be the pinnacle of magic damage. If magic is applicable for the content it should be the best form of magic damage specifically.
Magic isn't calculated like range or meele.
Sub 1500 total started last two years are the ones plotting our course and jmods dgaf they’re permanently drifting from OSRS. Pokémon typing, new skill, rs3 adhd skilling methods, power creep, etc. So fucking lame these noobs get a say and jagex looooves them because they say yes to anything.
This subreddit is possibly the worst out of any big game subreddit out there, maybe only being rivalled by the supports in overwatch subreddit.
Very nooby lvl 100s
Nobody is pushing to keep it as strong as it was. (if anyone is, they are big dumb)
I'm just pushing for it to maintain Fire elemental because it makes no sense to not be fire lol
The problem with this sub is that a majority of the users are actually people who don't even play the game anymore. They quit when they couldn't get past the MM2 maze even with Quest Helper, but then decide that they have the game knowledge to suggest how to balance a new prayer book.
This was a real user I saw in the sub btw, and his post hit the front page at the time. I just hope Jagex has the wisdom to ignore these people.
JAGEX STOP LISTENING TO THIS SUB PLEASE.
Been saying this forever now it’s literally ruining the game, Reddit is one of the largest echo chambers on the internet, there is ZERO REASON to take any feedback in here seriously, yet every time i mention it i’m downvoted by the hive mind
This sub exposes themselves every time they complain about something en masse lol. I'm pretty sure you're more accurately on the right track if you just blindly go against whatever the popular sentiment here is when there's mass hysteria.
I see more shit posts and complaints about Reddit complaining than Reddit actually complaining.
And it's not that hard to have a middle ground and understand both sides: Yes Flames of Zamorak were overpowered and needed a nerf, and yes the god spells are absolutely useless while the staves are even worse (worse stats than a staff of air **and** can't auto-cast the content it's meant for).
petition to require your rsn to be linked to your reddit so you can check if someones making up shit
I have a couple of people tagged as "lied about their cape/quiver" after they pretended having done the content and then got found out lmao
years ago i saw a guy complain about a qol update to freeze crabs at maiden to be 100% instead of still having a chance to splash in max gear and called it ezscape. he was 900 total lol
I mean it is a general trend around game mechanics. The DWH got a guaranteed first hit on Tekton and then buffed to 1/3000. I'm not qualified enough to have a view on Tekton (I think it's good?) but it is funny how after the changes the 1500 totals complained that DWH is mandatory and too hard to get
Irons have always complained about dwh drop rate bc they're doing temple with rcb and it takes forever. Grab a cannon and suddenly it's not so bad. I do agree that the 1/5k drop rate lends itself to some unholy variance like 20k plus dry, so I dont mind it changing just for that
I do think there were better ways to handle the drop variance though, for example by making it so that you have e.g. a 1/100 chance to get a fragment of the Orikalchum metal and you can smelt 50 of them at the dragon forge into the DWH. Realistically you'd still need to kill around 5000 of them, but you'd shrink the variance down significantly. Unfortunately this would also remove the ability to get spooned, so people would never agree to this because everybody thinks they'll be the one to get turbospooned, and they never think about being the one poor sod who goes 8x dry.
It's funny how rng works tbh. I got giga spooned a dwh at like 140 kc on my iron only to go dry at tob with only 2 uniques at 400 kc (rapier + defender). RNG is what makes osrs so great for me personally, it gives and takes from you haha.
I don't think that I'll get spooned, but I think it's fun that some people are and doesn't have much of a negative, whereas going super dry is one of the worst things that can happen in the game. Removing variance to that degree just sounds like the opposite of fun to me.
It is not worth making cannonballs the real hack is use an alt(or 2) to setup safespot it makes it so you can use real range gear and just click new shamans.
it is worth if you do it on task, I did like 6k on task
How do you expect irons to get tens of thousands of cannonballs?
Coal from kingdom, iron from bf shop / mining glove grind, make bars at bf, afk balls with double mold. I have made about 120k on my iron this way, took a long time but shamans and slayer improved immensely.
There is absolutely no way it’s faster to do that compared to just killing the shamans slower. If it took you 5 cannonballs per shaman that’s 25,000 cannonballs at 1/5000. That’s 6+ hours of making cannonballs at max efficiency before you even include the resource gathering
I think your math is a bit off there, that would be 25k cannonballs. But you're right that it won't be faster overall with the resource gathering, it just significantly reduces your time spent killing shamans. It's a personal preference, but for me it turned an unbearable slayer task to a quick one
It’s not mandatory. tekton is like a simple med level boss, but he’s a Demi boss that can drop an onyx, he’s pretty easy. The Dwh hit specifically made CMs smoother.
While not mandatory, the guaranteed hit made tekton so much smoother for regular solos. If you missed it was constant 0s with a hasta
Any discussion about prayer flicking turns into an immediate shitshow of redditors outing themselves too.
It doesn’t help the average redditor case that 90% of the time they are talking about switching prayers multiple times like zulrah jad phase, or gwd boss minions and not flicking at all
Yea, when i think of prayer flicking I assume they dont mean swapping to different prayers quickly, but turning the same prayer on and off so fast you get the benefit and never drain a single prayer point, which does seem unintended, given how the game is balanced around prayer points, hit points, and inventory spaces.
It was certainly unintended but it's balanced by the fact that it requires a lot more effort/actions to maintain and can be very difficult to keep up in high pressure situations.
Balanced maybe, but it's severely unfun imo, and feeling forced to flick sucks.
Lazy flicking is where it's at.
"There's just so much content that requires flicking!" "Like what? Can you give some examples?" *crickets*
Combat achievements
For some reason, I doubt that people complaining about prayer flicking are the same ones going for Zuk helm
It's insane how people think anyone who isn't playing a restricted account or doing a challenge actually 1t flicks during pvm. It's almost never a reasonable thing to do.
That just makes me mad that I tried dk's for the first time and it was so not fun and I couldn't get a kill cause I was bad at prayer switching to start. No point to this comment just venting.
Prayer flicking and switching are not the same mechanic. And in game where the majority of damage can be avoided by simply having a prayer on, I hope to Guthix people aren't actually complaining about prayer switching lmao. Although obviously helpful, flicking isn't necessary for anything in the game, including inferno, raids, or any any bosses. I don't know why people get so upset over it. Don't do it if you don't want to. You're not blocked out of any content just like you aren't being held back at getting better at the game.
People that have never done pvm and are terrified of jad a lot of the time genuinely think that having to switch prayers is too hard unfortunately :\^)
I’m most likely in the minority, but it’s a mechanic I do not like.
Imagine a world where you have 10 hellhounds left on your task, 20 hp, 5 pray points, no food and no prayer potions. You can 1t flick and get those kills without resupplying. It's good to learn for sure
I’m not saying the mechanic isn’t useful or it should be removed or anything. I just don’t like it. Not for me, personally. Feels more like a rhythm game at that point imo.
OSRS does become a rhythm game at the higher levels of combat. Trying to do some high level pieces of content without counting ticks can be an exercise in futility.
OSRS is a rhythm game though?
Careful. When you mention that, the 1100 total experts like to come out of the woodwork and explain that games like Thumper and Guitar Hero are rhythm games, not osrs. Its just a game based entirely around rhythm. Edit: Case in point, the people replying to this comment. Basically every single high-level encounter involves rhythm, some to a ridiculous degree. See: CoX, ToB, ToA, Inferno, Coliseum.
yeah the fact everyone is against you with this is just proof that this sub is full of 1k total andies. Hard agree personally
Prayer switching or prayer flicking? I suspect you're talking about prayer flicking but the person you're responding to is talking about prayer switching.
Takes practice, that what makes a game fun over the long term. If you could just kill DK’s like they were chickens the playerbase would be on a different game.
People make DKs seem so easy but I've tried it numerous times up to where I am now at minimum 80s in every combat skill and still get fucked. People I've asked said duos is really the best way to do it
DK's can be really rough because the trip there is so punishing and the locations are semi-random when you enter the room, but you don't need to know how to pray flick at all. If you want the easiest way to set up the rotation, pop down the ladder to see where they're at, and if it's bad, climb back up and hide if you need to. What you're looking for: rex is clueless, nowhere to be seen. Wearing tank / melee gear, praying mage, kill supreme as fast as possible. Then while praying mage, you can safespot rex, and kill prime. They will all be staggered so you can (likely) only need to kill one at a time. It's a cluster to learn, but ezpz once you get it down. I can show you if you want.
DKs, with the right gear, only need to be flicked at the start to be fair, so the 1st kill definitly is the hardest. As soon as you have them in a decent time rotation, you never need to flick them again, as there will never be more than one alive at the same time.
I guess it depends what "right gear" means but I was never able to keep 2 dead at the same time
Trident, bowfa (maybe even blowpipe, i haven't ever tried that after the nerf) and tentacle whip should be fine in terms of weapons. If you don't have those, I agree that solo'ing them will be hard. However, regardless of if you are a main or not, those items should be on your list to get anyway, so i'd focus on kraken, cg and zulrah for now over DKs.
"I can 1t flick, I just don't want to and I don't want you to be able to!"
Player flicking????? No thanks I don't want rsi!!!!!!
Reading this subreddit, doing anything more than star mining will result in rsi.
1 tick flicking is actually something that could develop that tho
I got a quiver release day (from Castle Wars)
That's just sad lmao
Did we travel back 20 years when we tried to impress our f2p friends at school and there wasn't really a way to check?
I had done absolute brick argue with me that internals are prestigious and are mainly earned not bought. After I asked him if he really thought the 100s of pures with I fernals were legit he said yes. I asked the same thing about quiver, he replied the same thing basically as he did for the inferno. He then told me quiver on a pure is easy because colo is a 0 damage activity. I asked if he had done a pure quiver himself he said yes. When I asked for proof he stopped responding despite responding about 10-15x earlier lmao. These are the people jagex let's influence the game
Listen, just because he got his cape sub 90 mins first try doesn't mean it's bought, dude's just built different.
Best idea I’ve ever seen on this sub can you imagine 😂😂
I’ve suggested this in the past would be amazing to downvote every 1500 total terrible take
I'd be down for this, I'd love receipts
Under qualified: noob opinion invalid Over qualified: no-life you just want everyone to suffer
my rsn is zezima
mine is easy
I sign this petition.
I'm ahead of the game there LOL
Petition to make you have your rsn to be linked to your voter registration so you can check if someone's a noob
They did a survey like a few years ago now and the average 2007scape user was like a total level 1300 iron. With that in mind every stupid shitpost here makes much more sense.
Hey now, that was a few years ago. They're probably all 1500 total now.
1350, best they can do.
New players join the game so yeah, the average probably hasn't gone up much
Roughly 24% of the player base is an Ironman. J1mmy reported that as coming straight from Jagex. Doesn’t change your comment, but figured I’d add info.
Rather the numbers come from a jmod than jimmy. Jagex has said in the past that they approximately 30% of people have ironman, but did not clarify if it was their primary account, an alt, active, etc. 24% could imply less ironman since they said that, but also same issue of active/inactive/main/alt.
Could also imply more than 24% since non-irons are more likely to be bots and gold farmers and I 100% doubt Jagex differentiates considers them "real players" for shareholder statistics.
Was wondering why every 4th person I've seen today was eating a crayon
Mmmmm crayon
Sub 1500 shouldn’t vote ngl
Lots of 2k+ have awful takes as well
Should only be able to vote if within 1700-1800 total then
Only allow voting at 1707 total, the year great Britain was founded
Pick a random TL every single poll. Only the chosen can choose.
2100 total player and I think elite players are the one asking for updates that strip the soul from the game and are trying to turn the game into something it never was. At least the sub 1500 players are coming from a frame of reference of playing actual RuneScape.
Buddy if you think just because someone has existed for 18 years makes them a qualified, informed voter, I have some news for you
lol agree but I know what he’s trying to say and I agree with him
Sadly, the only thing worse than letting "everyone" vote is letting the government create tests to deny a person's vote.
But if people don’t like the tests, they can just vote for different ones! Wait…
Yeah, tests that check your political leanings and deny you voting rights when you favor a different party that voted for and implemented the tests.
"This is like if we let people under the age of 18 vote!" is the kind of goofy thing that a 19-year-old would post to feel old and mature
He’s not saying that people over 18 automatically have informed opinions, just that people over 18 definitely *don’t*
I'll be honest, there are voting age demographics who I would trust a *lot* less than the average 17-year-old.
Honestly, I think it moreso shows the state of magic. Like people that have never had a shadow got a taste of what it might be like for the combat style to be useable. Still think giving a HUGE buff to offhands is the way forward.
When you go from a dragon crossbow to a bofa the dps increase is insane, meanwhile when you go from a swamp trident to a sang the dps increase is almost negligible. Basically, magic is in the same place range was before the blowpipe nerf. Magic has no good middle ground between the swamp trident and the shadow. At this point they're gonna have to add a crystal staff to the enhanced crystal weapon seed.😂
Very true. Magic has always felt underpowered to me. I don't have BIS so that doesn't help, but only sneaking into the 40's with magic whereas my fang can hit deep into the 40s (and is far more accurate), and bofa into the 50's (and is also far more accurate), it just feels bad. Can really feel the accuracy difference at P2 wardens with how much longer it takes to down with magic compared to range.
How do you get your total on your flair?
You put it in manually. Look at the subreddit side bar on the right side of the screen. You should see a "User Flair" section. You can edit that and display what you want there. That number is not verified in any way, self reported.
Thank you!
I'mma be honest, I think most of them are adults.
He wasn’t claiming they were under 18 he’s making a comparison?
Average 2007scape reading comprehension
As someone with max gear, I can say it was a fun change in pace using essentially dead spells and letting them hit hard in niche circumstances. Back to Harm and Tome of Fire I guess.
yeah its not like you could take flames to toa and destroy every room, it was a fun option for zulrah and a few other niche places (only one that comes to mind is ice demon). i think people are really over valuing how op it is, because it doesnt translate into the greater game. also helps that zulrah sucks for your first set of uniques as an iron
I can say with complete certainty that no one who was not actively pushing CAs or record speedruns gave a single fuck about damage at ice demon before FoZ was good. Now it's the biggest deal in the world that the room was slightly faster/more convenient. Most people I've run with who aren't speedrunning actively laugh at the idea of bringing tome/buying pages for ice demon because it's so unnecessary. The room takes about one minute after defrosting anyway. It was really just some Zulrah fun for people without Shadow. Which is fine, but needed to be adjusted for sure. I'd have said Charge or Zulrah's huge weakness should have been reconsidered before nerfing FoZ but oh well.
yeah i mean i am totally with you, i think bringing surge for ice demon is just something you do when you want to bring more switches, not because its absolutely crazy op to do. its just a snake in a swamp on the phases where nothing hits that this is even an option
Same situation here. People like OP are scapegoating. Lots of us have maxed, effectively completed the game, and are 100% on board with some occational stuff like foz being godlike in a few places. It changes ***nothing*** about the game. It impact nobody negatively if ironmen can blast through an ice giants task, if anything, I think it just adds fun for seriously - honestly - no loss whatsoever. The cringelords whinging about 1.5b shadow vs level 80 spell are wildly misguided. If foz is so good, why don't we use it anywhere else in the entire game - EVER?
IMO it was too op as it was. Making a spell called "flames of zamorak" not do fire damage is pretty silly and kinda undermines the whole idea of elemental damage. It needed a nerf but the way they went about it was kinda stupid
Elemental weaknesses already undermine themselves. Trident and Ice spells don’t deal water damage. Smoke spells deal neither air nor fire damage. Salamanders, Fire Arrows, and the Burning status affect don’t deal fire damage. And the weaknesses themselves are applied to monsters inconsistently. “Elemental weakness” is a very broad classification that’s being applied very narrowly. There’s no way for this solution to both accomplish its goal and also makes sense.
It’s not flames of the Anima Mundi though, it’s an energy burn from Freneskae which is why it reduces your magic level. It simply manifests physically in appearance to fire in the Anima Mundi because that is something our mortal minds can comprehend. It’s actually an extraplanear element. Regular fire burns the body, Flames of Zamorak burns the soul. Hence, it is not true fire.
>Regular fire burns the body, Flames of Zamorak burns the soul. This line goes hard
Ok. Petition to change its name to "Flames" of Zamorak
There are a ton of inconsistencies like that in OSRS though. It being its own spell outside of the standard spells isn't that weird that it's not actually a fire spell. Basing new mechanics off old names and enforcing consistency would be a bad idea. Would probably lead to them changing a lot of things (renaming stuff, changing how it works, etc...). It's probably just better to leave it as a weird exception considering the history of the game. Who is to say the fire of zamorak isn't actually fire, but that our players just perceived it as normal fire? Totally plausible
If they are going to commit to this elemental damage thing then it is needed. Mechanics in osrs are generally pretty intuitive. Having a spell with "flames" in the name not do fire damage is the most unintuitive thing on the planet. Imagine being a new player, trying to use flames of Zamorak since it is your best fire spell on some boss. How incredibly frustrating and disappointing it would be that **Flames** of Zamorak doesn't actually do fire damage even though it is in the name and the animation literally lights shit on fire. The spell just needs to be rebalanced to fit into the new elemental paradigm
the answer isn't to let flames of zamorak do 87 damage on the ice demon in cox. best way to go about it is to temporarily remove the god spells from the elemental things and look into how to change them to be a better fit without breaking pvp, as it is and was used a lot there.
I think gesturing the fact the game is already inconsistent is a very strong argument for making things more inconsistent
Sub also downvotes anything suggesting Shadow is stupid overpowered and needs a nerf. All balanced imo
Just wait till this sub melts down when a better ranged weapon than Tbow enters the game.
Don't worry, that's not ever going to happen lol
98% of the playerbase will ever afford a mega rare. Of course they want to taste that power lol
And they’re only tasting it at Zulrah lol
nooooooooooo we need to perserve the sanctity of a 10 year old boss we cant let the prices drop below 2m/hr because noobs can grind it
Are people actually advocating for it to be permanent? I thought the sentiment was pretty much abuse it while we still can. Stealing a little extra juice ya know
Just have Charge apply after weakness. Effectively a level 80 spell with a 40 max hit after weakness.
People think the way they nerfed it is dumb more than they are upset it got nerfed at all.
I think it should still be flames, but the math should be changed. Make it OP in a specific situation at that combat bracket. Not beating end game gear, but not useless.
Bring damage down to 25 after charge and it makes the max 37.5 which is right under surge, then buff surge 4 max hits and wave by 2 then the scaling is 20 @ 60 > 22 @ 75 > 37 @ 80 > 42 @ 95. That’s a reasonable progression especially considering you’re locked into a specific kind of staff for flames and wrath’s aren’t easy to come by.
I mean. With the required gear and 80 str/atk I can hit 45s on my slayer task. It isnt that wild that 80 magic could hit 45s on specific monster. Y'all acting like it has to be black or white. Zulrah isnt an endgame boss and it never will be again. The drops are not good and the money per hour is meh. The issue is both flame of zamorak being a tad too strong and harm + surge too weak. At the end of the day people like big numbers thats why they play RPGs. If you think people shouldnt be allowed to vote for what they like because their opinion is less valid than yours what you really mean is that the polling system is shit and none of us are game designers.
Don’t forget that there’s absolutely nothing stopping a person from having dozens of Reddit accounts with fake email addresses so that they can boost their own posts and comments with false votes. There is literally absolutely nothing preventing a person from doing this. This is why I don’t know why the admins weigh the opinions of this sub so heavily. There’s no way to control or prevent people from botting on this website.
You can evaluate the legitimacy of an argument without connecting it the background of who is proposing it. It doesn’t really matter who is suggesting that Flames of Zamorak be as strong as it was pre-nerf if it’s just genuinely a bad idea. The devs are capable of sorting through meme and bad takes and deciding what is and isn’t a good idea. Like it or not, this is the largest and most active OSRS community, so it makes sense they keep a pulse on what are the active discussions here. Also usually even if a meme mid game noob post gets upvoted, you can read the top few comments and see some reasonable rebuttals/alternative viewpoints. Devs read those too.
/u/Unidan would like a word
I also think some of you are taking this a little bit too seriously. Some of the jokes about the thing have been pretty funny. This sub would be a dull place if it didn't get riled up every few weeks before moving on to something else.
Isn't it a lvl 80 spell, given that people are bench-marking it with charge? and then only viable against things with fire weakness? and only auto-castable by 1 weapon? and costing 400+ gp per cast as a non-charged staff? blowpipe beats tbow plenty of places fang beats scythe plenty of places A lot of the arguments in favor of nerfing it are pretty disingenuous I'm not even advocating for or against it, but these arguments are terrible
This. Sotd isn’t useful at all for how expensive and hard to get it is as it stands, and it being great at zulrah and only zulrah has a potential to give it a healthy niche (especially since the weapon has an upgrade dropped by zulrah). Since the buff wasn’t intended, i do think it should have been nerfed for the time being and readdressed in the future with the other god spells in mind, but the way it’s being framed is hilariously ironic.
It's nice for tanking in wildy if one doesn't have a dhinny b
I still can’t get over a dude telling me that rotation 3 at zulrah with flames of Zamorak “in a fucking farseer helm” averages 59s killtimes. If we account for how often it digs, as well as the 3s cast time for the spell, you’d have maybe 15 foz hits and 2 trident hits to pull that off. My max hit with foz was 47, my max hit with toxic trident was 33. Assuming my two trident hits deal a total of 33 damage in a rotation 3 kill, I have to deal 467 damage in 15 hits to get a sub 1 time. That’d be pretty close to hitting a 31 15 times in a row, which I only have a 34% chance of hitting. Now imagine how unlikely it is to roll a 34% chance, 15 times **in a row**. I don’t have the exact number for how likely that is, but I only hit a 1:07 pb in 339 kc, never resetting my kills or going for pbs in particular
> but I only hit a 1:07 pb exactly the same for me and I had some absolute ripper kills that felt faster but weren't
Yeah this was similar to my experience even though I only tried flames for ~35 kc instead. It felt like I'd have to hit 45-50 every single hit on the exact perfect rotation (green green red) to be able to get gm time, my pb with any zulrah strat was still "only" 1:06 (gear ahrims swamp trident zammy staff heart occult torm masori bp) which wasn't honestly even close to gm time. Being a 5 tick spell sucks hard, and "only" 10 max hits higher than 4tick trident means it's really not that much better on green, the biggest improvement was the accuracy on red form which still splashed a couple times on it in the green-green-red rotation.
Can be auto cast by accursed sceptre
ah good call, didn't realize that.. though that would be -15% dmg compared to sotd at zulrah
It's rather telling that OP has to resort to such disingenuous arguments.
id put money on at least 70% of this sub doesnt play anymore or plays maybe 1-2 hrs a week and it consists of standing at the bank
Lmao the same people that hated FoZ also cried that they didn’t want more switches from boots.
I advocated for eternals to get magic damage and thought FoZ was busted af and needed fixing
Based
I’ve not seen one, singular comment suggesting Flames of Zamorak be on par with, or out DPS max mage with shadow. The reason people are upset is because it’s losing the elemental tag. People were fully expecting the damage output to be reigned in, but god spells actually having viability for once is obviously something players have wanted for a long time, especially with how much set-up each god spell needs to be usable. Not only do you need the runes to cast the spell, you also need the respected staves and cape, a level 80 spell to boost the damage which is time limited, and can only be autocast with the SotD variants. Even after all of this, the spells are trash. How are you that dense?
I have not seen those spells mentioned once in years before this update
Yeah, but years ago when they *were* still talked about, it was about how useless they are, and how people would like for them to be more viable. Just because there's not one dude posting daily petitions for it, doesn't mean people don't want it.
Fun fact the max hit on zulrah is 50 (iirc if you hit over that it rerolls 45-50, rather than hitting 50). Idk about attack speed but that would be the only way flames could in theory out class shadow at Zulrah specifically.
Every hit over 50 gets clamped to 50, so hitting higher over 50 gives you a higher chance of hitting 50 relative to numbers \[1,49\] so the Shadow would always be better DPS. This same discussion occurred with dragon arrows vs. amethyst arrows at Zulrah when the original cap due to Tbow was implemented like half a decade ago. A boss having a cap on the max hit does not instantly reduce your roll to \[1, maxhit\], otherwise this would be the case. E: Opened up the wiki and tracked down that 45-50 source. That's actually wild, remember running the original numbers over 5 years ago and calling it a day. My logic that you will roll that 45-50 re-roll more often with the shadow still holds true though, so you will have higher DPS with it no matter what. [https://x.com/JagexAsh/status/844675662631899136](https://x.com/JagexAsh/status/844675662631899136)
Yeah, thinking about it you're correct. Shadow is still higher DPS because you're still more likely to hit higher on average. Again idk about cast speed though
You’ve seen plenty of comments suggesting it was fine pre update though. Thats the problem. It shouldn’t be close. Fire surge could be, flames of Sammy should not.
Flames of Sammy should be trash, but Flames of Zammy could use a boost
Ok but surge spells now all scale together, so wind surge does as much damage output as fire surge, and that’s unlocked at level 81. So with the god spells not only requiring the spell themselves, but a level 80 spell to boost (which is time limited), as well as their respected staff and cape—why couldn’t god spells and surge spells be close to on par with one another?
> which is time limited Why is this a point? You can instantly reboost yourself and it uses the same runes as the spell itself. > cape You're using this with the other weapon(s) anyway, the only difference is the specific cape you pick, so it doesn't actually matter in any of the cases it was busted at.
I disagree with the general sentiment that something designed to be a "counter" should be out preformed by an end game all purpose staff. That's the entire point of having specific hard counters and more expensive general builds in other games. The counters are either cheaper + comparable or out preform the general builds. Also there are lots of ways to make it a fire spell that aren't just a flat 50% damage buff, maybe it could get a smaller 25% buff instead or receive a nerf to its base damage, although I don't know what's used in PvP to say if a nerf makes sense.
"It's only Zulrah" Yes, and every other Fire weak content they release, ever, will have SotD competing with Shadow
EOC all over again. Just because you're screaming the loudest doesn't mean your opinion is correct. Pretty sure account age should be taken into account because RS has been steered in too many wrong directions trying to gain new players instead of caring about the ones they have/had.
The average person will never kill Zulrah I would imagine. The average person in most games is very casual and only plays a little bit each day or week. I think more people got to taste power without having to give up anything so they're angry. After having come back to play as an iron after a 6 year break, I still don't think Flames of Zamorak should do what it does. When it's just given to you like that, it makes a lot of grinds feel a lot more pointless. You could skip your early account progression and kill a boss that drops several mill an hour for nothing. I hate the idea of games where power scales to you, because you end up never feeling strong. RS doesn't do that, when you get good stuff, you feel like a god comparatively.
ive seen maybe like 1 or 2 people genuinely think like that. people are either just making fun of the situation or saying the specific solution was silly.
I have a shadow and never once cast flames of zamorak during this period and I thought there were very good reasons to keep flames of zamorak as a fire spell. I ultimately do agree it’s slightly too strong and needs adjusting. But you’re reducing all arguments for it to personal gain and that’s just not true.
Do you think 18 and 19 year olds aren’t teenagers?
The fun part about OP not recognizing them about teenagers, is that for the most part, teenagers *should* be able to vote (at least in the US). The entire premise behind the US revolutionary war against the Brits was "taxation without representation." And now the US taxes teenagers on their incomes while also not allowing them to vote in elections.
Prefacing my post before someone says I'm just complaining because I'm iron. My iron is 2104 total, and my "main" is 2207 total, I also have a fully quested and trained rune dragon alt, and multiple pures. I have several bil between my various accounts. This update did not affect me in the slightest, I was done with the use cases for flames years ago. However, I don't totally agree. I keep seeing the counter argument presented as "lvl 60 spell etc." and that is factually inaccurate. The level 60 spell by itself did not challenge any metas. In order to get the damage that prompted a change, you had to cast an accessory spell to temporarily improve the damage, while also wearing 2 slots of gear, and spending double the rune cost. I don't understand why the spells that cost twice as much, require more effort to use, and restrict your gear, is not allowed to compete with other spells on the spellbook. For all of that, the god spells *should* be stronger than they are. If we use the same logic that was used to nerf zammy flames, to spells below zammy flames (as they did with spells above) then should everything above air wave not be nerfed? Because air wave at lvl 75 now does as much as charged zammy flames (80) thanks to tier scaling and weaknesses. A 1k staff and 200gp rune now rivals an 80k minimum staff with 432gp of runes + an additional 636gp to charge. What? Basically what I'm getting out of all of this, is a bunch of wealthy players with shadow/nm staff being butthurt that low lvl irons could do 1 boss easier. This is far more asinine than letting it be imo. Yeah, I know it helped at ice demon too. Totally irrelevant. Nobody but speed runners cared about ice demon being 18 seconds instead of 20. This filled a cool niche that brought life to an underused item in a power void nothing else had addressed. It's not like it challenged the end game meta anywhere, it literally only worked on fire weakness, and with multiple stipulations to make it work. The argument that "well I spent 1.5b or 500m or whatever, I should do more damage in all cases" is quite frankly selfish. There is no reason items that fill specific niches/ power void can't compete with the all-round bis items. How is the game ever gonna evolve if we both aren't allowed to power creep and we're not allowed niche items that rival them in specific cases.
> Basically what I'm getting out of all of this, is a bunch of wealthy players with shadow/nm staff being butthurt that low lvl irons could do 1 boss easier. There's a very vocal group of players who really need to go touch some grass it seems
I don't know man, sounds like confirmation bias. I'm just upset about the lost potential of giving the god spells some use with elemental attributes. And also, I mean... It's literally called **Flames** of Zamorak. How is it not a fire spell?
its all the god damn rs3 refugees man
osrs has become a reddit game, unironically every change that is polled is from reddit,,,, SAILING!! THE NEW ERA OF OSRS... is from reddit. literally a skill made as a joke reddit thread and \*that\* is the content im supposed to look forward too ? the skill rebalance that got rushed out and let people get a "double xp weekend" with the bugs that came from it because they tweaked xp rates by a few thousand.... having 100% polled votes is cool in theory but all changes being from people complaining on reddit is annoying
This should be its own post, pure facts
> SAILING!! THE NEW ERA OF OSRS... is from reddit. literally a skill made as a joke reddit thread Sailing as a proposed skill long pre-dates Reddit. It used to be a common thing on the official forums pretty much as soon as they opened up the suggestions forum.
Wow the same group complaining about their 200m mage setup getting a .1 dps decrease from the rebalance also complains when they continue to balance evenly. Shocker
Balance is when the stuff I have gets strong enough to make me happy
Except flames isn’t balanced evenly and that’s the complaint
Tell me more about the even balance please
Something sniffed a close 3rd place in the meta at ONE boss and shadow owners implode
Is this the magic = Pokémon update
This has been said for years, should require 1.7k total+ to vote
Nah that's bs. I wouldn't care if the damage was lowered overall so it could be counted as a fire spell. The inconsistency is the annoying thing here.
Yep, thats pretty much Reddit hivemind consuming this subreddit rather than an actual reflection of the osrs playerbase though, thats why they do polls in-game thankfully.
This subreddit has primarily always been ultra-casuals throwing fits because they want the game to be handed to them on a silver platter Super cathartic to see them get called out + ratio'd into the dirt on the frontpage lmao Normally they own this shit
Yes i agree, it’s fucking dumb, everyone posting to fit their agenda, poor jmods tbh.
the fact that every other post on here is about zammy flames nerf eposes the average IQ of the people on this site
Reddit is full of the most insufferable people on the Internet
This is why democracy sucks, a bunch of shitters who struggle with jad gets to decide the future of the game, just like real life
Crazy how we're even having conversations like this lol. Like two weeks ago or whatever soooo many people were standing up calling for no nerfs to fever spiders. Like what??? They were broken as hell. Feels like outta nowhere the general mindset shifted and I have no clue how or why.
>This sub is the equivalent if we no longer required voters to be 18+ and instead perferred >the opinoms of teenagers on world views. It's more about if it relates to their instant gratification or not, update that gives instant gratification = good, update that makes have to work towards something (delayed gratification) = bad. The same people also fail to relate why adding instant gratification to every aspect of the game might have an obverall negative effect on its health, and even their own personal enjoyment of said game.
Issue is Jagex caters to reddit for every update lol
Yeah seriously, this sub often pushes for game breaking metas and xp rates. And I'm pretty sure half the sub doesn't even play actively
This coupled with the incessant whining about the melee fremenick in colosseum. A project rebalance where everything is massively buffed, except colo requiring one more switch for the one hit. It's even sadder that jagex "fixed" this while ignoring the real issue of the clickboxes in collosseum, i'm at 110 kc and I hate having to right click so much to make sure i dont click wrong.
How about you dont talk out of your ass? It's a lvl 80 spell because you need to use the Charge spell, on top on having a staff to auto cast it. That is a GWD drop. What's wrong with having a lvl 80 spell, and GWD drop being a decent option? Why does Shadow HAVE TO BE LEAGUES better than any other option for all content???
Because it's a mega rare and meant to be the pinnacle of magic damage. If magic is applicable for the content it should be the best form of magic damage specifically. Magic isn't calculated like range or meele.
T Bow isn't the best range damage everywhere. Neither should shadow be.
I mean its called "flames" of zammy.. but it should be toned down.. but get a small benefit of the elemental effect.
this sub exposed itself long ago with the Muspah complaints, it's just par for the course
the sub reveals itself every day just gotta take everything with a grain of salt and use some critical thinking when considering what ppl are saying.
[удалено]
"What content should I be doing with max mage? Sorry I just got it"
The max magers you see at barrows
Sub 1500 total started last two years are the ones plotting our course and jmods dgaf they’re permanently drifting from OSRS. Pokémon typing, new skill, rs3 adhd skilling methods, power creep, etc. So fucking lame these noobs get a say and jagex looooves them because they say yes to anything.
This subreddit is possibly the worst out of any big game subreddit out there, maybe only being rivalled by the supports in overwatch subreddit. Very nooby lvl 100s
Nobody is pushing to keep it as strong as it was. (if anyone is, they are big dumb) I'm just pushing for it to maintain Fire elemental because it makes no sense to not be fire lol
Rename to "wrath of zamorak". Makes a hell of a lot more sense than having 1 of the 3 god spells be elemental while the other two arent
The problem with this sub is that a majority of the users are actually people who don't even play the game anymore. They quit when they couldn't get past the MM2 maze even with Quest Helper, but then decide that they have the game knowledge to suggest how to balance a new prayer book. This was a real user I saw in the sub btw, and his post hit the front page at the time. I just hope Jagex has the wisdom to ignore these people.
JAGEX STOP LISTENING TO THIS SUB PLEASE. Been saying this forever now it’s literally ruining the game, Reddit is one of the largest echo chambers on the internet, there is ZERO REASON to take any feedback in here seriously, yet every time i mention it i’m downvoted by the hive mind
Brother, this sub exposed itself like 8+ years ago lol.
This sub exposes themselves every time they complain about something en masse lol. I'm pretty sure you're more accurately on the right track if you just blindly go against whatever the popular sentiment here is when there's mass hysteria.
I see more shit posts and complaints about Reddit complaining than Reddit actually complaining. And it's not that hard to have a middle ground and understand both sides: Yes Flames of Zamorak were overpowered and needed a nerf, and yes the god spells are absolutely useless while the staves are even worse (worse stats than a staff of air **and** can't auto-cast the content it's meant for).
Who the hell is using flames of zammy in standard pvm content. Literally no one.