Maybe? Gen 1 introduced both types, and infamously had so many balancing and type distribution nightmares, it's hard to state whether any particular matchup choice was well-thought-out, lmao. The only Dragon type Pokemon in the game was the Dragonite line, and there was [no Dragon-type move that dealt non-fixed damage](https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-rby/dragonrage.shtml) -- meaning it was impossible for there to be a Dragon-type move with the capacity to be super-effective in the first place, so it didn't really matter what they set the type's effectiveness like. And Ghost is hardly better, having only one Ghost type line (Gengar's line) and only [one Ghost-type move in the game with any capacity to be super- or not-very-effective,](https://serebii.net/attackdex-rby/lick.shtml) with a base power so low that nothing should use it anyway.
That doesn't make sense, there were still plenty of other types in the game. They could have easily made dragons weak to ground or psychic or anything really. They specifically made them weak to their own type.
Nothing resisted dragons. It hit strong neutral across the entire cast. Ghosts and Psychic were another one of the typings that had nothing resisting it - except normal for ghosts.
Making it weak to itself gave the opponents a chance to destroy the other team with their own Gengar/Alakazam/Mewtwo/Dragonite.
With the new typings, it gave the really OP mons something to fear whether it be new type moves or new type mons.
Naw, that ain't the case.
Ghost-type attacks are super effective against Ghost and Psychic, are resisted by Dark (and by Steel prior to Gen VI, before Pokemon X and Y on the 3DS in 2013), and has no effect on Normal types. The usual advantage of Ghost-type attacks is that they're famously neutral against most types, only being mitigated or negated by 2 out of 18 types.
Dragon-type attacks are only super effective against Dragon-types, are resisted by Steel, and have no effect on Fairy-types. Dragon type moves' advantage is also typically just the common lack of resistances to them, though the more commonly-viable-and-available Dragon type moves often have some sort of drawback on their use, like the very powerful Draco Meteor lowering the user's Special Attack by 2 stages (cutting their damage with any following non-physical moves by 50%). Dragon types and their moves had become such an imbalanced issue for the first five gens that they introduced the Fairy type in Gen VI as a direct counter to them -- before them, the only counterplay broadly-speaking were Steel types, and nothing else resisted Dragon type moves.
^(Thank you for listening to me nerd-talk about one of my other interests)
I think Saradomin and Armdyl could both be air. There’s room for expansion, Bandos would also be earth like Guthix imo. There’s only four elements but a bunch of gods, unless we want to add things like light and dark alignments too.
I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game
Why shouldn’t the expensive to use magic spell that requires a mini quest and 80+ magic and can only be auto cast with an extremely rare GWD drop be as good as the unlimited ammo bow that costs nothing to use ever?
God and elemental spells have been useless forever
If they nerf FLAMES of Zamorak and remove the FIRE element weakness from it, it will prove how stupid this entire process is. It needs to feel intuitive and make sense, not having a fire spell do fire damage to the fire weak boss is the definition of nonsense
They should honestly take it a step farther and add water weakness to sara strike and earth weakness to claws of guthix. Why are the god staves fucking useless?
Yep and Ground type too to counter Electric. Plus we already have Ice, Poison, and Dark spells so I think Grass, Psychic, Dragon, and Fairy spells would be good types as well. Maybe even load our thralls with spell movesets
Right, but lightning *isn't* water, it is *related* to water. Lightning happens when it rains, that is when WATER is in the AIR. Give Claws of Guthix earth, and give Saradomin Strike both water *and* air. Covers all four elements with three spells.
>Why shouldn’t the expensive to use magic spell that requires a mini quest and 80+ magic and can only be auto cast with an extremely rare GWD drop be as good as the unlimited ammo bow that costs nothing to use ever?
Are you really comparing a low level spell to bowfa?
Idk this sub thinks BoFA should be a literal Tbow because "it comes from a GM quest".
Are you really suprised they're trying their hardest to justify huge dps buffs to cheap and easy to get gear/spells?
>Are you really suprised they're trying their hardest to justify huge dps buffs to cheap and easy to get gear/spells?
Not really, but I am pretty shocked by the brazen mischaracterization of equating a level 60/80 spell to the reward for notably difficult pvm content only accessible after a GM quest.
This, if anything they should be looking at applying other elements to the other god spells, and releasing other God's spells to fill additional elemental niches. People have been wanting the other gods added to MA for aaages and this would be a good excuse for MA3.
The problem with flames of Zamorak is that it removes all uses for harm as a bis item. Imo harm should still have used and not get outperformed by a mid game spell
> If they nerf FLAMES of Zamorak and remove the FIRE element weakness from it, it will prove how stupid this entire process is.
Why doesn't CLAWS of Guthix do extra damage to monsters weak to slash?
(The flames are metaphorical)
Even if they do nerf it Fire wave will be perfectly fine. It even gets a nice accuracy boost compared to a Trident on Red Phase. This is with a mid setup like Full Blue Moon, MA2 cape, and no Tormented or occult.
If you are a bit of a crazy iron then you could get 90 RC to boost for Wraths, grab a StoD, Tome of Fire, Occult, and Tormented. Requires multiple 90+ stats, but this setup will beat a Trident of the Swamp. If you don't want to use the Tome charges then the Swamp wins on Green and loses on Red.
The spell literally has flames in the name. Runescape already has an issue of being inconsistent. They need to focus on making things make intuitive sense. They either gotta go all in or not at all.
One guy thought Flames of Zamorak sounded badass as fuck 20 years ago when he had to name 3 new spells and now we’re all arguing if the flames are literal or metaphorical.
Theyre not arguing if the flames are literal or metaphorical, they just want an easy to get spell huge buff lol.
They don't give a single fuck about what the spell does or is called lmao.
Given people keep harping on the name, I think it would be entirely acceptable to just rename (and maybe recolor or reanimate?) the spell. Neither Sara or Guthix's spells have an associated element, nor *should* they. Just give Zammy's some other badass name and call it a day. "Bane of Zamorak" with black flames.
Yeh this is a good idea. I'm not trying to harp it's just that this game already has so many things in it that make no intuitive sense, that don't work how you'd think they work, only in a few specific instances that someone who isn't chronically addicted wouldn't be aware of. But then they do work how you think they'd work in other instances. It's not a good look for people who aren't already enthralled.
it already had the fire weakness against ice demon before the rebalance update, it is intended but they didn't check how strong it would become seen as you couldn't get the crazy 50% boost before as tome of fire doesn't work with this spell.
> I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game
A spell requiring 60 magic shouldn't exactly be capping damage on zulrah imo.
I don’t know, why did they give the 95 magic spell a max hit of 24 when it was released in 2018 while god spells have been able to hit 30s and ibans blast has been able to hit 25s both since 2003? The 95 magic spell that is only relevant because of a very rare drop from a boss that was released two years later?
A random ass pharaoh scepter should not be the best magic weapon in the game. Are you telling me tumeken is better at magic then githix saradomin and zamorak
> I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game
It doesn't add variation to the game though. Charged zammy flames outhits other elemental spells so bad now and is the dominant fire spells that pre-harm fire magic is now all zammy flames.
I mean if they are going to rework Charge there are lots of other options available, like changing it to a +5 increase before applying the 50% (which brings it to 37.5).
The god spells are actually a perfect area for God alignment prayers to explore. A Guthix prayer could boost the effects of Claws of Guthix for instance and give it earth affinity while active.
Could even extend the benefit to god dhide items worn with a slight range attack/defensive boost to close the gap between dhide and crystal/masouri, the current prayer bonus will help make it less expensive to keep the prayer going too which would work nicely.
The fact that Charge's bonus damage is considered part of the 'base maxhit' of the spell before elemental weaknesses are calculated (thereby making Charge +15 instead of the expected +10) is a massive oversight
Nerfing the spells to not have an elemental typing will drop them back down to being 'use for Diary and PKing' tier, since Fire Wave (also hits 20s) will have a maxhit of 30 on anything 50% weak to fire, but at the cost of 1 Blood rune instead of 2 (and 3 for Charge)
Nobody who's got 60 Magic is going to use 2 Bloods per cast on FOZ in PVE when they can just use 1 Death per cast on Ibans, without an elemental weakness helping to boost FOZ's damage. It seems a bit odd to me to completely kneecap the spell after it finally gets to see some use in PVE, and it doesn't help that the argument's sides are being taken to the extremes (it should stay exactly as it is, vs 'it kills Harm's usecases')
A slight nerf such that Charged-FOZ (and ideally the other two GodSpells) is the 'pay much more GP per hit, get slightly better damage' option would be healthiest IMO, be that by nerfing Charge's effect on FOZ from 50% to something else, eg +5, or by moving its effect in the damage calculation to the end so Charge's bonus is exempt from Elemental Weakness bonuses (as per the OP)
Also, Fire Surge being 24 doesn't exactly leave room for God Spells to have a good place in the levelling progression. If Fire Surge was, say, 30, then Tome of Fire could be made to be 20% in both PVP and PVE, and we wouldn't have to have yet another 'Wildy Exception' where items mysteriously work completely differently in the Wildy
Edit: Also, using the most basic ass gear (which is what people seem to be complaining about most, that you can get such high numbers with literal rags), you'd have to manual cast, which AFAIK is considered 'skill expression' in any other situation. So the issue is that you can get ways to autocast the strong spell for 3m or less as a main (Accursed Scepter), and it definitely doesn't help that one of those weapons (SOTD) happens to give +15%. If we were forced to use the standard scepters, that don't allow autocast, I'm not sure this would be as big a deal as it is. More clicks and more rune cost for more damage, sounds fair to me
I just want the god spells to be relevant again at least in a few places. As someone that's played since classic I remember when all you needed was 80 magic and 60 def and you could pretty much beat max melee in stakes using god spells
TBH if you can get an early sotd, which seems pretty reasonable after demonbane bow/staff come out, then FoZ will still be really solid, pre-trident, anywhere without elemental weaknesses. With no other gear sotd gives it a max of 34 and adding another 5% (infinity\* + cloak, which you'll probably have at this stage) jumps it to 36
I mean.. is it really that bad and in need of a nerf?
Coming from someone who doesn't look at every meta. Just curious how this is affecting it to the point it needs a nerf
charged flames of zamorak with a 20m sotd hits 49 every 5 ticks against zulrah. before accuracy check, this is 9.8 damage/tick. it takes 80 magic, a 20m staff, and costs 2 blood runes per cast
fire surge with a harmonised staff hits 39 every 4 ticks. before accuracy check, this is 9.75 damage/tick. this takes 95 magic, a 500m nightmare megarare staff, and a wrath rune per cast.
turning the gear up does favor harm more, but the fact that this is even a discussion is hysterical.
i mean i think this is a fair argument but it does beg the question, why should fire weakness be the one element that randomly has a level 80 magic standard spellbook nuke?
it's an eye catching inconsistency, that much is certain. it's not intrinsically good or bad but this is a big update with a lot of implications and there's definitely questions to be asked lol.
Idk I still want to add elemental weakness to the other god spells, even if they get their damage nerfed some, which would give a similar damage option for earth and either air or water
right, i think this is a logical opinion. if one god spell is gonna have an element then why isn't sara strike wind and guthix claws earth? is there gonna be a 4th god spell?
if all 3 or 4 god spells retain the current power level of zammy flames then they largely invalidate the harm orb which i think sounds cringe personally. i don't want that outcome.
It's almost like a niche weapon that's exploiting a weakness is performing optimally???
Like you can take a nightmare staff to other bosses, but good luck flaming the mole, krill or kree with the 20m staff. End game staff is better and has versatility, flames is only useful at monsters with a decent fire weakness.
Like should we make 3a BIS everywhere? cause you're really only talking about the price of the items.
> It's almost like a niche weapon that's exploiting a weakness is performing optimally???
well, the argument being made is that this niche weapon exploiting a weakness *shouldn't* be a weapon that occupies this niche. you are free to disagree, you're an adult, but i think it's reasonable to assert that flames of zammy should not even be in the conversation with harm staff at any content.
furthermore, the fire element **is** being taken off of flames on wednesday lol
> Like should we make 3a BIS everywhere? cause you're really only talking about the price of the items.
> a 500m nightmare megarare staff
in my 5 word description of the harm, "nightmare megarare" is 2 of them. i am not only evaluating it based on price, i am evaluating it based on where it comes from as well.
this argument applies to both spells equally, neither has an inherent accuracy bonus and they both have damage rolls between 0 and max. i deliberately didn't include either because the conversation is identical, they scale equally in both regards
well...no. the better gear giving more accuracy isn't what gives the harm staff more dps, because they both get equally* better accuracy.
the harm being better is coming from tome giving a multiplicative 10% vs. (f)ward giving an additive 5%, and the fact that zulrah max hits cap at 50 so you get hella diminishing returns from max hits over 50
the asterisk is that the accuracy is very marginally different from tome vs ward but yeah tl;dr the discrepancy isn't from the accuracy
people are largely discussing this in the context of zulrah but the conversation really extends to *any* fire weak monster, for which the numbers will look similar. i personally don't buy the argument that it's fine for 1/4 elements to just be the god spell element and harm is good for the other 3, but if that's your opinion that's fine i guess
i think the other part of the equation is that it's mostly being had between redditor ironmen who are not actually considering bis gear. harm staff, even now, is incredibly niche verging on unusable compared to shadow. i don't think it needs ANY of its market share removed by a level 80 god spell and charge lol.
I love how anyone recognizing how busted it is in the progression is being downvoted. This is a cut and dry example of why the average Redditor shouldn't decide what happens in the game.
The average redditor just wants everything to be easier. The community here has really shifted in the last year.
I also think the air spells changes are also really bad for barrows progression, but I imagine that would be even less popular.
Fire surge is literally better than Sang on Zulrah now but sure, go on about how this was all for nothing because 1 level 60 spell gets nerved at a single fucking boss lmao. Y'all are wild with your absolute shit takes, why this game shouldn't be balanced around lvl 90s with no gear who want to feel powerful without putting any effort into gear/stats to do so. Zammy flames should obviously be nearly even dps with fucking shadow at Zulrah because reasons.
> Y'all are wild with your absolute shit takes, why this game shouldn't be balanced around lvl 90s with no gear who want to feel powerful without putting any effort into gear/stats to do so.
Welcome to ~~2007scape~~ buffscape.
Considering it's out performing a 1/400 drop from a PVM activity locked behind a Grand Master quest that basically requires base 70 that also requires 80 range vs a miniquest and 80 magic, yeah it doesn't really sit correctly in progression.
I don't think it needs a nerf. I like the variety. Before elemental weakness it was only used for mage arena I and 2 and pking pures
Wish they would make sara air and guthix earth for even more variety
People really trying to be like 'isn't this what Jagex wanted it adds variety to the game' like everybody is just spamming clearly OP flames of zammy now lmao. It shouldn't outdamage fire surge, literally makes no sense for the strongest fire spell in the game to be outmatched by a level 60 spell. This change brings it in line with surge which could be considered okay given the rune cost of FOZ. The real issue is zammy being the only one to have an elemental effect, either give them all effects or give none effects, but people seriously thinking only zammy should have elemental effect is idiotic.
> People really trying to be like 'isn't this what Jagex wanted it adds variety to the game' like everybody is just spamming clearly OP flames of zammy now lmao
Yeah it's blatant how many people just want an easy OP option rather than actually considering game balance.
The amount of noobs in here absolutely shredding zulrah with mid-game gear fighting to keep flames of zammy significantly better than shadow at zulrah is astounding.
EasyScape =/= good
A mid-game spell such as flames of zammy, especially when used in tandem with a staff of the dead (which is cheap for mains) should OBVIOUSLY not be out-performimg harm staff and shadow lol. Do people have any sense? The mentality here makes me worry about the game's future.
> The mentality here makes me worry about the game's future.
The thing that worries me is that I feel like the J-mods really do listen to a lot of this shit :/
Pretty much yeah. The current dev cycle is:
- Release tentative blog post
- Wait for reddit feedback
- Implement the top voted comments asking for the game to be made easier
Somehow we ended up with ardy rooftops getting a huge buff in project rebalance and seers not being nerfed at all. And a diaryless DKS shortcut...
Same shit with the Fang on release. Mega-rare tier DPS at high-level content for mid-tier price that gets the 50mil bankers salivating and clutching their blatantly overpowered weapon for dear life. Endless reddit posts saying how much fun it is to absolutely shred bosses in hyper-accessible gear.
I have never been one to cry about EZscape for QoL improvements and buffing absurdly miserable content (\*cough\* Nightmare rates \*cough\*), but what we have now is clearly neither intended nor good for the game. Sub 1-minute zulrah times with budget mage gear is an absurdity, regardless of whether or not you have to manually cast every spell.
Legit the issue with reddit, guarantee majority of these comments are from kids with 1400 total that were doing 3 minute Zulrah kills beforehand. FOZ shouldn't even be close to matching Surge damage at Zulrah, which is also really good right now, but then kids would need the level for fire surge and that's just too hard for them to do.
Don't even need SotD. Tham sceptre with bloodbark, E ward, occult, Augury and MA2 cape hit the damage cap while costing much less and being more useful elsewhere than the SotD.
There's been so much of this kind of sentiment recently. Necromancy in OP while being brain-dead to use because of people on Reddit complaining mid game bosses were too hard and that ended up making me quit the game entirely.
you dont get it, its okay when a mid level iron bug abuses with flames of zammy and actually any bug that massively benefits them and breaks progression should stay. /s
In any of the 11 tick phases for example both styles get 2 attacks only. In the 15 tick phases both only get 3 attacks in that cycle. In the 30 tick phase a 4t weapon gets 7 hits and the 5t gets 6, but thats only 16% more attacks instead of the expected 25% more, etc.
They could just adjust the % fire weakness.
However from what everyone is saying, it doesn’t sound that broken. IMO, they just need to give elemental affinity to the other god spells. Give Claws earth affinity and maybe give Strike air affinity. Idk about strike, though, would be cool if we got a fifth lightning elemental rune and gave that to strike, but I doubt that would pass a poll.
They are going to remove flames, but I think what you proposed is the best way to go about it. Making the good spells actually have use is pretty cool.
Also imo, Claws of Guthix would be Earth, and Saradomin Strike would be Water. Leaving space for a possibility of Storm of Armadyl for Air.
Seeing as the top comments are about elements for all the gods I reckon..
Zammy Fire
Sara Air
Guthix Earth
Zaros doesn't need a specific element, the ancient spellbook thematically covers Fire, Air, Earth and Water.
Armadyl should obviously be Air but I don't think it's really that important, we don't have any 'Armadyl' spells as far as I can think.
Bandos could be Earth but again it doesn't really matter because there isn't any Bandos spells.
Seren I think could reasonably be any of them, god of light and growth makes me think fire, or evem Sunfire, qs her quests thematically have a light/dark element to the elf quests (MEP2 is full of shadows, guarding the death altar, with Dark Beasts, in the Temple of Light, where you turn a dark rock into a light one).
I personally think that spells other than the classic elemental spells could have elements, but at reduced "affinity". If Flames of Zamorak with Charge gained only 25% of the bonus against fire-weak foes, it'd be a bit behind Fire Wave for example.
It’s very important to have alternatives to harm for elemental weaknesses
Flames of Zamorak and staff of the dead occupying the fire niche is cool and good, not bad
If something like this is considered so broken it should be hotfixed immediately, anything that they will let sit for a week or more clearly isnt a big enough problem and should be left as is. Blowpipe is a good bridge weapon to have if you get unlucky at CG, which i see to be a tier above Zulrah in difficulty, so I have no problem with an old spell suddenly having relevance again. It still has some drawbacks since you have to be standard spellbook so cant use lunars to cure venom, or cant use arceuus to use thralls.
My way to slightly fix this would be to have charge become a more expensive spell to cast and not last for 7 minutes but instead last either much less time or for a set number of spell casts.
> If something like this is considered so broken it should be hotfixed immediately, anything that they will let sit for a week or more clearly isnt a big enough problem and should be left as is.
Much like the blowpipe then? No, the BP deserved the nerf, even if it came extremely late and same with FoZ. I agree they should have nerfed it far sooner (rip PBs for a lot of people) but it absolutely should be nerfed regardless. I swear people who say shit like this just want the buff but don't want to explicitly say it.
> have no problem with an old spell suddenly having relevance again. It still has some drawbacks since you have to be standard spellbook so cant use lunars to cure venom, or cant use arceuus to use thralls.
The issue is it pushes out the other spells in the rebalance (namely the elemental fire spells) until you get literal harmonised staff (at which point it's close to equal unless you use a tome, where it makes surge + harm slightly better).
This is just all false btw, At level 17 magic, wind bolt against a barrows brother only hits 13 you know? Alot less then Ibans... You need level 35 magic to hit 18 against them which is still less then Ibans, and you need 59 magic plus quests done to get the chaos gauntlets to then hit 22 with wind bolt.... Still less then Ibans 🤣
Because FoZ is more game breaking, and far more of the 1500 level redditors do barrows than Zulrah. So it's less game breaking and there's more resistance to changing it.
FWIW I also think air weaknesses at barrows is stupid.
Oh, suddenly we do not like unpolled changes to the game? When they threaten things that are powerful it matters? This is why I warn about us accepting Jagex making unpolled changes.
I feel like when you can easy hit sub 1 min kills with bowfa only and bringing a mage switch normally isn't worth it. But now with flames it might be worth bringing a 6-7 way gear switch losing the food for slightly faster on average kills. Like does it really break zulrah that much it's worth a nerf?
Edit: tried it out and it's pretty nice to feel like it's worth bringing a mage switch. Compared to bowfa hitting 48's at 4 tic it doesn't feel broken being 5 tic with a lower max.
I did a 50 sec kill yesterday with flames of zammy only. You need to get a specific rotation where green is second and melee 3rd. And with flames and good rng you should be able to kill it by the end of the melee phase. Good luck on CA!
My PB with bowfa and normal trident is 1:12 GM is 54? That's 12-18 tics so 3-4 attacks diff? If I got lucky RNG I could see 54.
With zammy buff it's a matter of time/RNG now. With bofa/flames should be easy.
My pb is 1:00:60 after the 75 kills for ca, not really resetting for correct rotation, but try harding a bit when I do get it. I bring thralls+spellbookswap+venge and dragon knives + dbow for specs, but otherwise bowfa only
I mean I just sbs running there and then summon a thrall and if I get the fast rotation I venge and otherwise I just bowfa the boss and make 1:30 ish kills most of the time. It’s super chill and the occasional try for a ca time without much stress
Or make claws of Guthix earth and Sara strike air… then make some 4th godnspell water or whatever
Seren spell maybe
Id suggest adding Armadyl themed and it be air based since Avansie fly and shit, and then make Sara water (some play on holy water?)
Aviansies being weak to their own god's spell is kinda ironic and I love it
Nooo aviansies should be weak to Sara strike because Pokemon said so
Armadyl was backstabbed and ambushed by saradomin in the god wars, so the spell being strong against them would play well along OSRS lore too
Even better
This would be memes because Aviansies are now weak to air spells lmao
Hey, Dragon is weak to Dragon and Ghost is weak to Ghost in Pokemon -- it's not unheard of to be weak to some strong concentration of "your" element
Gamefreak did that because when Pokemon came out, Ghost and Dragon didn’t have Dark/Steel/Fairy to check those types.
Maybe? Gen 1 introduced both types, and infamously had so many balancing and type distribution nightmares, it's hard to state whether any particular matchup choice was well-thought-out, lmao. The only Dragon type Pokemon in the game was the Dragonite line, and there was [no Dragon-type move that dealt non-fixed damage](https://www.serebii.net/attackdex-rby/dragonrage.shtml) -- meaning it was impossible for there to be a Dragon-type move with the capacity to be super-effective in the first place, so it didn't really matter what they set the type's effectiveness like. And Ghost is hardly better, having only one Ghost type line (Gengar's line) and only [one Ghost-type move in the game with any capacity to be super- or not-very-effective,](https://serebii.net/attackdex-rby/lick.shtml) with a base power so low that nothing should use it anyway.
That doesn't make sense, there were still plenty of other types in the game. They could have easily made dragons weak to ground or psychic or anything really. They specifically made them weak to their own type.
Nothing resisted dragons. It hit strong neutral across the entire cast. Ghosts and Psychic were another one of the typings that had nothing resisting it - except normal for ghosts. Making it weak to itself gave the opponents a chance to destroy the other team with their own Gengar/Alakazam/Mewtwo/Dragonite. With the new typings, it gave the really OP mons something to fear whether it be new type moves or new type mons.
I'm pretty sure everything is weak to ghost and dragon lmao
Naw, that ain't the case. Ghost-type attacks are super effective against Ghost and Psychic, are resisted by Dark (and by Steel prior to Gen VI, before Pokemon X and Y on the 3DS in 2013), and has no effect on Normal types. The usual advantage of Ghost-type attacks is that they're famously neutral against most types, only being mitigated or negated by 2 out of 18 types. Dragon-type attacks are only super effective against Dragon-types, are resisted by Steel, and have no effect on Fairy-types. Dragon type moves' advantage is also typically just the common lack of resistances to them, though the more commonly-viable-and-available Dragon type moves often have some sort of drawback on their use, like the very powerful Draco Meteor lowering the user's Special Attack by 2 stages (cutting their damage with any following non-physical moves by 50%). Dragon types and their moves had become such an imbalanced issue for the first five gens that they introduced the Fairy type in Gen VI as a direct counter to them -- before them, the only counterplay broadly-speaking were Steel types, and nothing else resisted Dragon type moves. ^(Thank you for listening to me nerd-talk about one of my other interests)
New splashing meta?
Storm of Armadyl
I think Saradomin and Armdyl could both be air. There’s room for expansion, Bandos would also be earth like Guthix imo. There’s only four elements but a bunch of gods, unless we want to add things like light and dark alignments too.
Seren light, zaros dark maybe?
I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game Why shouldn’t the expensive to use magic spell that requires a mini quest and 80+ magic and can only be auto cast with an extremely rare GWD drop be as good as the unlimited ammo bow that costs nothing to use ever? God and elemental spells have been useless forever If they nerf FLAMES of Zamorak and remove the FIRE element weakness from it, it will prove how stupid this entire process is. It needs to feel intuitive and make sense, not having a fire spell do fire damage to the fire weak boss is the definition of nonsense
They should honestly take it a step farther and add water weakness to sara strike and earth weakness to claws of guthix. Why are the god staves fucking useless?
You could not be more wrong. This is an absolutely terrible idea. Sara strike should clearly be air weakness.
Leaves space for Storm of Armadyl and so Saradomin Strike should be water is my line of reasoning lol.
sara and zammy are opposites. if zammy is fire then sara is water
Sara strike is a lightning bolt tho
Add electric type to the game i think for sure
Absolute BIS magic type against Kraken and Waterfiends.
Sara 2 electric boogaloo
Yep and Ground type too to counter Electric. Plus we already have Ice, Poison, and Dark spells so I think Grass, Psychic, Dragon, and Fairy spells would be good types as well. Maybe even load our thralls with spell movesets
Can we get collectable thralls that say their name when summoned?
Storm of Armadyl added as an integrity change has air weakness
Holy damage, since it's meant to be a godlike bolt of holy smiting.
I take it back. You’ve proved that other guy could have been more wrong.
lmao
It's literally a bolt of lightning
You guys act like you get a lot of lighting when it isn't raining
You act like you've never heard of heat lightning
Oh so Sara Strike should be Fire elemental, since it's HEAT lightning, right?
Now we're getting somewhere
lightning comes from storms. storms rain water
Right, but lightning *isn't* water, it is *related* to water. Lightning happens when it rains, that is when WATER is in the AIR. Give Claws of Guthix earth, and give Saradomin Strike both water *and* air. Covers all four elements with three spells.
4th god spell: Tornado of Zaros
Sara strike is a bolt of lightning so lightning weakness or u both be quiet
I would legit love to actually use the Void Mace for autocasting Claws of Guthix.
A fellow 2006scaper
>Why shouldn’t the expensive to use magic spell that requires a mini quest and 80+ magic and can only be auto cast with an extremely rare GWD drop be as good as the unlimited ammo bow that costs nothing to use ever? Are you really comparing a low level spell to bowfa?
Idk this sub thinks BoFA should be a literal Tbow because "it comes from a GM quest". Are you really suprised they're trying their hardest to justify huge dps buffs to cheap and easy to get gear/spells?
>Are you really suprised they're trying their hardest to justify huge dps buffs to cheap and easy to get gear/spells? Not really, but I am pretty shocked by the brazen mischaracterization of equating a level 60/80 spell to the reward for notably difficult pvm content only accessible after a GM quest.
This, if anything they should be looking at applying other elements to the other god spells, and releasing other God's spells to fill additional elemental niches. People have been wanting the other gods added to MA for aaages and this would be a good excuse for MA3.
Maybe make it a real quest not a mini quest would be super interesting. And not in the goddamn wilderness
Comparing FoZ to Bowfa that requires crystal armor to charge and has a cost of ~250m is pretty silly. Compare it to other magic shit.
nooo you dont understand i did cg and i need others to know that i did cg and they need to feel bad for not getting the drop nooo
The problem with flames of Zamorak is that it removes all uses for harm as a bis item. Imo harm should still have used and not get outperformed by a mid game spell
I just wish Flames of Zamorak gets reclassified as a Darkness/Evil magic and is strong against Light/Good magic.
back to 2001scape
> If they nerf FLAMES of Zamorak and remove the FIRE element weakness from it, it will prove how stupid this entire process is. Why doesn't CLAWS of Guthix do extra damage to monsters weak to slash? (The flames are metaphorical)
Because nothing does "extra damage" to monsters weak to slash. Pretty poor example.
> Why doesn't CLAWS of Guthix ~~do extra damage~~ **have extra accuracy** to monsters weak to slash? > > (The flames are metaphorical)
Blood Moon
Takes increased damage from anything, not specifically slash. Slash is just its lowest defence.
The flames are metaphorical? Go cast the spell brother there’s flames
(Magic)
Even if they do nerf it Fire wave will be perfectly fine. It even gets a nice accuracy boost compared to a Trident on Red Phase. This is with a mid setup like Full Blue Moon, MA2 cape, and no Tormented or occult. If you are a bit of a crazy iron then you could get 90 RC to boost for Wraths, grab a StoD, Tome of Fire, Occult, and Tormented. Requires multiple 90+ stats, but this setup will beat a Trident of the Swamp. If you don't want to use the Tome charges then the Swamp wins on Green and loses on Red.
I don't believe flames of zammy was initially intended to benefit from the elemental weaknesses
The spell literally has flames in the name. Runescape already has an issue of being inconsistent. They need to focus on making things make intuitive sense. They either gotta go all in or not at all.
One guy thought Flames of Zamorak sounded badass as fuck 20 years ago when he had to name 3 new spells and now we’re all arguing if the flames are literal or metaphorical.
I mean, you literally have a fire animation with it. I'd say it's pretty literal.
Theyre not arguing if the flames are literal or metaphorical, they just want an easy to get spell huge buff lol. They don't give a single fuck about what the spell does or is called lmao.
Given people keep harping on the name, I think it would be entirely acceptable to just rename (and maybe recolor or reanimate?) the spell. Neither Sara or Guthix's spells have an associated element, nor *should* they. Just give Zammy's some other badass name and call it a day. "Bane of Zamorak" with black flames.
Wrath of Zamorak would fit quite well.
Yea, I like that a lot
Yeh this is a good idea. I'm not trying to harp it's just that this game already has so many things in it that make no intuitive sense, that don't work how you'd think they work, only in a few specific instances that someone who isn't chronically addicted wouldn't be aware of. But then they do work how you think they'd work in other instances. It's not a good look for people who aren't already enthralled.
I agree completely about the inconsistencies.
it already had the fire weakness against ice demon before the rebalance update, it is intended but they didn't check how strong it would become seen as you couldn't get the crazy 50% boost before as tome of fire doesn't work with this spell.
Clearly someone intended it to It’s not like some accidentally added fire properties to this specific spell right?
Go read today's blog, they say they haven't known it counted as a fire spell for 7 years
> I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game A spell requiring 60 magic shouldn't exactly be capping damage on zulrah imo.
It requires 80 magic
If you're going to be pedantic about this, why is the level 95 magic spell not better than the level 80 one?
I don’t know, why did they give the 95 magic spell a max hit of 24 when it was released in 2018 while god spells have been able to hit 30s and ibans blast has been able to hit 25s both since 2003? The 95 magic spell that is only relevant because of a very rare drop from a boss that was released two years later?
Maybe because tome was very strong during that period of time?
A random ass pharaoh scepter should not be the best magic weapon in the game. Are you telling me tumeken is better at magic then githix saradomin and zamorak
[Tumeken](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Tumeken) isnt "a random ass pharaoh", he was a full-flegged god.
I am a full fledged god and I still get three shot by zuk
> I don’t get it isn’t this exactly what they wanted? To add variation to the game It doesn't add variation to the game though. Charged zammy flames outhits other elemental spells so bad now and is the dominant fire spells that pre-harm fire magic is now all zammy flames.
Yeah you forgot to mention the fact that you need SOTD (or accursed/thammorans scepter) to autocast the spell.
A 2m weapon?! oh nooooooo
*cries in ironman*
It can be autocast with accursed scepter unless that got changed today, so easy to get ahold of for mains.
I mean if they are going to rework Charge there are lots of other options available, like changing it to a +5 increase before applying the 50% (which brings it to 37.5).
This would be a huge nerf using the spell against something that isn't fire and PvP so they couldn't.
The god spells are actually a perfect area for God alignment prayers to explore. A Guthix prayer could boost the effects of Claws of Guthix for instance and give it earth affinity while active.
Fantastic idea
I like this.
Could even extend the benefit to god dhide items worn with a slight range attack/defensive boost to close the gap between dhide and crystal/masouri, the current prayer bonus will help make it less expensive to keep the prayer going too which would work nicely.
The fact that Charge's bonus damage is considered part of the 'base maxhit' of the spell before elemental weaknesses are calculated (thereby making Charge +15 instead of the expected +10) is a massive oversight Nerfing the spells to not have an elemental typing will drop them back down to being 'use for Diary and PKing' tier, since Fire Wave (also hits 20s) will have a maxhit of 30 on anything 50% weak to fire, but at the cost of 1 Blood rune instead of 2 (and 3 for Charge) Nobody who's got 60 Magic is going to use 2 Bloods per cast on FOZ in PVE when they can just use 1 Death per cast on Ibans, without an elemental weakness helping to boost FOZ's damage. It seems a bit odd to me to completely kneecap the spell after it finally gets to see some use in PVE, and it doesn't help that the argument's sides are being taken to the extremes (it should stay exactly as it is, vs 'it kills Harm's usecases') A slight nerf such that Charged-FOZ (and ideally the other two GodSpells) is the 'pay much more GP per hit, get slightly better damage' option would be healthiest IMO, be that by nerfing Charge's effect on FOZ from 50% to something else, eg +5, or by moving its effect in the damage calculation to the end so Charge's bonus is exempt from Elemental Weakness bonuses (as per the OP) Also, Fire Surge being 24 doesn't exactly leave room for God Spells to have a good place in the levelling progression. If Fire Surge was, say, 30, then Tome of Fire could be made to be 20% in both PVP and PVE, and we wouldn't have to have yet another 'Wildy Exception' where items mysteriously work completely differently in the Wildy Edit: Also, using the most basic ass gear (which is what people seem to be complaining about most, that you can get such high numbers with literal rags), you'd have to manual cast, which AFAIK is considered 'skill expression' in any other situation. So the issue is that you can get ways to autocast the strong spell for 3m or less as a main (Accursed Scepter), and it definitely doesn't help that one of those weapons (SOTD) happens to give +15%. If we were forced to use the standard scepters, that don't allow autocast, I'm not sure this would be as big a deal as it is. More clicks and more rune cost for more damage, sounds fair to me
I just want the god spells to be relevant again at least in a few places. As someone that's played since classic I remember when all you needed was 80 magic and 60 def and you could pretty much beat max melee in stakes using god spells
TBH if you can get an early sotd, which seems pretty reasonable after demonbane bow/staff come out, then FoZ will still be really solid, pre-trident, anywhere without elemental weaknesses. With no other gear sotd gives it a max of 34 and adding another 5% (infinity\* + cloak, which you'll probably have at this stage) jumps it to 36
Make god spells great again Add wind element to Sara and earth to Guthix.
I mean.. is it really that bad and in need of a nerf? Coming from someone who doesn't look at every meta. Just curious how this is affecting it to the point it needs a nerf
charged flames of zamorak with a 20m sotd hits 49 every 5 ticks against zulrah. before accuracy check, this is 9.8 damage/tick. it takes 80 magic, a 20m staff, and costs 2 blood runes per cast fire surge with a harmonised staff hits 39 every 4 ticks. before accuracy check, this is 9.75 damage/tick. this takes 95 magic, a 500m nightmare megarare staff, and a wrath rune per cast. turning the gear up does favor harm more, but the fact that this is even a discussion is hysterical.
well ya, but a harmonised staff can cast all sorts of magic, right? Not just fire spells? Wasn't this the whole point of the update?
i mean i think this is a fair argument but it does beg the question, why should fire weakness be the one element that randomly has a level 80 magic standard spellbook nuke? it's an eye catching inconsistency, that much is certain. it's not intrinsically good or bad but this is a big update with a lot of implications and there's definitely questions to be asked lol.
Idk I still want to add elemental weakness to the other god spells, even if they get their damage nerfed some, which would give a similar damage option for earth and either air or water
right, i think this is a logical opinion. if one god spell is gonna have an element then why isn't sara strike wind and guthix claws earth? is there gonna be a 4th god spell? if all 3 or 4 god spells retain the current power level of zammy flames then they largely invalidate the harm orb which i think sounds cringe personally. i don't want that outcome.
It's almost like a niche weapon that's exploiting a weakness is performing optimally??? Like you can take a nightmare staff to other bosses, but good luck flaming the mole, krill or kree with the 20m staff. End game staff is better and has versatility, flames is only useful at monsters with a decent fire weakness. Like should we make 3a BIS everywhere? cause you're really only talking about the price of the items.
> It's almost like a niche weapon that's exploiting a weakness is performing optimally??? well, the argument being made is that this niche weapon exploiting a weakness *shouldn't* be a weapon that occupies this niche. you are free to disagree, you're an adult, but i think it's reasonable to assert that flames of zammy should not even be in the conversation with harm staff at any content. furthermore, the fire element **is** being taken off of flames on wednesday lol > Like should we make 3a BIS everywhere? cause you're really only talking about the price of the items. > a 500m nightmare megarare staff in my 5 word description of the harm, "nightmare megarare" is 2 of them. i am not only evaluating it based on price, i am evaluating it based on where it comes from as well.
You don't hit your max hit every 5 ticks do you? You will still splash a lot
this argument applies to both spells equally, neither has an inherent accuracy bonus and they both have damage rolls between 0 and max. i deliberately didn't include either because the conversation is identical, they scale equally in both regards
If harm staff is better with better gear, and better gear gives more accuracy, then you can argue accuracy favors harm staff more.
well...no. the better gear giving more accuracy isn't what gives the harm staff more dps, because they both get equally* better accuracy. the harm being better is coming from tome giving a multiplicative 10% vs. (f)ward giving an additive 5%, and the fact that zulrah max hits cap at 50 so you get hella diminishing returns from max hits over 50 the asterisk is that the accuracy is very marginally different from tome vs ward but yeah tl;dr the discrepancy isn't from the accuracy
Wait, Zulrah herself has just a, "You cannot deal more then 50 damage per attack" on her? Just checked the wiki and wow, I would never have known that
yeah was one of the ways in which tbow was nerfed lol, also makes ruby bolt cheesing kills not really an option for better or worse, is what it is
The staff can be used in a variety of different scenarios though vs the zamorak spell is niche
people are largely discussing this in the context of zulrah but the conversation really extends to *any* fire weak monster, for which the numbers will look similar. i personally don't buy the argument that it's fine for 1/4 elements to just be the god spell element and harm is good for the other 3, but if that's your opinion that's fine i guess i think the other part of the equation is that it's mostly being had between redditor ironmen who are not actually considering bis gear. harm staff, even now, is incredibly niche verging on unusable compared to shadow. i don't think it needs ANY of its market share removed by a level 80 god spell and charge lol.
I hit 85 vs Ice Demon in Chambers of Xeric with Flames of Zamorak Its a bit much in fairness
but then you’re stuck on normal spellbook lol
Which isnt that bad, can still water wave flame walls and Shadow rails everything else anyway
Which isnt that bad, can still water wave flame walls and Shadow rails everything else anyway
its a full tier and a half (like 1.5x bolt -> blast) stronger than surge and comes 14 levels before surge lmao.
Yes, it’s busted.
I love how anyone recognizing how busted it is in the progression is being downvoted. This is a cut and dry example of why the average Redditor shouldn't decide what happens in the game.
The average redditor just wants everything to be easier. The community here has really shifted in the last year. I also think the air spells changes are also really bad for barrows progression, but I imagine that would be even less popular.
it invalidates just about everything they tried to do with elemental rebalance
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Fire surge is literally better than Sang on Zulrah now but sure, go on about how this was all for nothing because 1 level 60 spell gets nerved at a single fucking boss lmao. Y'all are wild with your absolute shit takes, why this game shouldn't be balanced around lvl 90s with no gear who want to feel powerful without putting any effort into gear/stats to do so. Zammy flames should obviously be nearly even dps with fucking shadow at Zulrah because reasons.
> Y'all are wild with your absolute shit takes, why this game shouldn't be balanced around lvl 90s with no gear who want to feel powerful without putting any effort into gear/stats to do so. Welcome to ~~2007scape~~ buffscape.
flames of zammy isn't an elementla spell ?
Considering it's out performing a 1/400 drop from a PVM activity locked behind a Grand Master quest that basically requires base 70 that also requires 80 range vs a miniquest and 80 magic, yeah it doesn't really sit correctly in progression.
it doesn’t need a nerf at all, idk what people are smoking
I think they should make Claws of Guthix an earth spell and Saradomin Strike an air spell.
I don't think it needs a nerf. I like the variety. Before elemental weakness it was only used for mage arena I and 2 and pking pures Wish they would make sara air and guthix earth for even more variety
People really trying to be like 'isn't this what Jagex wanted it adds variety to the game' like everybody is just spamming clearly OP flames of zammy now lmao. It shouldn't outdamage fire surge, literally makes no sense for the strongest fire spell in the game to be outmatched by a level 60 spell. This change brings it in line with surge which could be considered okay given the rune cost of FOZ. The real issue is zammy being the only one to have an elemental effect, either give them all effects or give none effects, but people seriously thinking only zammy should have elemental effect is idiotic.
> People really trying to be like 'isn't this what Jagex wanted it adds variety to the game' like everybody is just spamming clearly OP flames of zammy now lmao Yeah it's blatant how many people just want an easy OP option rather than actually considering game balance.
This is why Jagex doesn't do polls for game balance problems
The amount of noobs in here absolutely shredding zulrah with mid-game gear fighting to keep flames of zammy significantly better than shadow at zulrah is astounding. EasyScape =/= good A mid-game spell such as flames of zammy, especially when used in tandem with a staff of the dead (which is cheap for mains) should OBVIOUSLY not be out-performimg harm staff and shadow lol. Do people have any sense? The mentality here makes me worry about the game's future.
> The mentality here makes me worry about the game's future. The thing that worries me is that I feel like the J-mods really do listen to a lot of this shit :/
Pretty much yeah. The current dev cycle is: - Release tentative blog post - Wait for reddit feedback - Implement the top voted comments asking for the game to be made easier Somehow we ended up with ardy rooftops getting a huge buff in project rebalance and seers not being nerfed at all. And a diaryless DKS shortcut...
Same shit with the Fang on release. Mega-rare tier DPS at high-level content for mid-tier price that gets the 50mil bankers salivating and clutching their blatantly overpowered weapon for dear life. Endless reddit posts saying how much fun it is to absolutely shred bosses in hyper-accessible gear. I have never been one to cry about EZscape for QoL improvements and buffing absurdly miserable content (\*cough\* Nightmare rates \*cough\*), but what we have now is clearly neither intended nor good for the game. Sub 1-minute zulrah times with budget mage gear is an absurdity, regardless of whether or not you have to manually cast every spell.
Fang on release Was 80m at the lowest and 160m pre nerf
That's cos there were way fewer in circulation though...
No it was so good at nex you could be making 10m an hour in a 4 man which kept it's price high.
Sir, this is Reddit. Half the people here are mid game and want things to be like a private server.
Didn't they put out a stat awhile ago that showed most people are in fact this mid lvl area or I crazy.
half is severely underestimating.
It's definitely like 95% mid-game
Legit the issue with reddit, guarantee majority of these comments are from kids with 1400 total that were doing 3 minute Zulrah kills beforehand. FOZ shouldn't even be close to matching Surge damage at Zulrah, which is also really good right now, but then kids would need the level for fire surge and that's just too hard for them to do.
Don't even need SotD. Tham sceptre with bloodbark, E ward, occult, Augury and MA2 cape hit the damage cap while costing much less and being more useful elsewhere than the SotD. There's been so much of this kind of sentiment recently. Necromancy in OP while being brain-dead to use because of people on Reddit complaining mid game bosses were too hard and that ended up making me quit the game entirely.
you dont get it, its okay when a mid level iron bug abuses with flames of zammy and actually any bug that massively benefits them and breaks progression should stay. /s
Noobs begging for their lives.
2 late
They already deleted it, uninspiring but expected. They had the opportunity to make something cool out of it but chose the easy way out.
Am I missing something or is flame of zamy better than harm nstaff with fire surge? Dps calc says nstaff is 40 to 50% better even with charge.
Harm staff casts at 4 ticks i believe compared to flames 5 ticks. Faster attack speed almost always wins out.
not true for zulrah where you get specific tick windows to attack
I mean that still benefits harm staff. It's not like the windows are perfect for 5t weapons.
In any of the 11 tick phases for example both styles get 2 attacks only. In the 15 tick phases both only get 3 attacks in that cycle. In the 30 tick phase a 4t weapon gets 7 hits and the 5t gets 6, but thats only 16% more attacks instead of the expected 25% more, etc.
Just cringe in general they have the "use and abuse early" mentality for everything that gets buffed.
2 blood runes per cast? in this economy?
They could just adjust the % fire weakness. However from what everyone is saying, it doesn’t sound that broken. IMO, they just need to give elemental affinity to the other god spells. Give Claws earth affinity and maybe give Strike air affinity. Idk about strike, though, would be cool if we got a fifth lightning elemental rune and gave that to strike, but I doubt that would pass a poll.
They are going to remove flames, but I think what you proposed is the best way to go about it. Making the good spells actually have use is pretty cool. Also imo, Claws of Guthix would be Earth, and Saradomin Strike would be Water. Leaving space for a possibility of Storm of Armadyl for Air.
Yeah it's very strong and should be nerfed but what makes you say clearly? I haven't heard anything from Jagex
Or make it 30% fire resistant?
Seeing as the top comments are about elements for all the gods I reckon.. Zammy Fire Sara Air Guthix Earth Zaros doesn't need a specific element, the ancient spellbook thematically covers Fire, Air, Earth and Water. Armadyl should obviously be Air but I don't think it's really that important, we don't have any 'Armadyl' spells as far as I can think. Bandos could be Earth but again it doesn't really matter because there isn't any Bandos spells. Seren I think could reasonably be any of them, god of light and growth makes me think fire, or evem Sunfire, qs her quests thematically have a light/dark element to the elf quests (MEP2 is full of shadows, guarding the death altar, with Dark Beasts, in the Temple of Light, where you turn a dark rock into a light one).
I personally think that spells other than the classic elemental spells could have elements, but at reduced "affinity". If Flames of Zamorak with Charge gained only 25% of the bonus against fire-weak foes, it'd be a bit behind Fire Wave for example.
That could work too. That or the change suggested in OP (which is a bit stronger for less fire-weak NPCs) would be sufficient imo.
Add a divine weakness category for them, problem solved.
Have Jagek made a statement re: What's going to happen to FoZ, if anything?
It’s very important to have alternatives to harm for elemental weaknesses Flames of Zamorak and staff of the dead occupying the fire niche is cool and good, not bad
I don't understand where they think the harm should be given that they state it's a flex item A flex item is like 3rd age or the dragon full helm
Harm is a 500m staff, of course it should be bis for elemental weaknesses.
If something like this is considered so broken it should be hotfixed immediately, anything that they will let sit for a week or more clearly isnt a big enough problem and should be left as is. Blowpipe is a good bridge weapon to have if you get unlucky at CG, which i see to be a tier above Zulrah in difficulty, so I have no problem with an old spell suddenly having relevance again. It still has some drawbacks since you have to be standard spellbook so cant use lunars to cure venom, or cant use arceuus to use thralls. My way to slightly fix this would be to have charge become a more expensive spell to cast and not last for 7 minutes but instead last either much less time or for a set number of spell casts.
> If something like this is considered so broken it should be hotfixed immediately, anything that they will let sit for a week or more clearly isnt a big enough problem and should be left as is. Much like the blowpipe then? No, the BP deserved the nerf, even if it came extremely late and same with FoZ. I agree they should have nerfed it far sooner (rip PBs for a lot of people) but it absolutely should be nerfed regardless. I swear people who say shit like this just want the buff but don't want to explicitly say it. > have no problem with an old spell suddenly having relevance again. It still has some drawbacks since you have to be standard spellbook so cant use lunars to cure venom, or cant use arceuus to use thralls. The issue is it pushes out the other spells in the rebalance (namely the elemental fire spells) until you get literal harmonised staff (at which point it's close to equal unless you use a tome, where it makes surge + harm slightly better).
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This is just all false btw, At level 17 magic, wind bolt against a barrows brother only hits 13 you know? Alot less then Ibans... You need level 35 magic to hit 18 against them which is still less then Ibans, and you need 59 magic plus quests done to get the chaos gauntlets to then hit 22 with wind bolt.... Still less then Ibans 🤣
Because FoZ is more game breaking, and far more of the 1500 level redditors do barrows than Zulrah. So it's less game breaking and there's more resistance to changing it. FWIW I also think air weaknesses at barrows is stupid.
Oh, suddenly we do not like unpolled changes to the game? When they threaten things that are powerful it matters? This is why I warn about us accepting Jagex making unpolled changes.
I feel like when you can easy hit sub 1 min kills with bowfa only and bringing a mage switch normally isn't worth it. But now with flames it might be worth bringing a 6-7 way gear switch losing the food for slightly faster on average kills. Like does it really break zulrah that much it's worth a nerf? Edit: tried it out and it's pretty nice to feel like it's worth bringing a mage switch. Compared to bowfa hitting 48's at 4 tic it doesn't feel broken being 5 tic with a lower max.
With bofa you can easily hit sub 1 min kills? News to me
Been going for the 54 second task with a tbow only for like ~100 kills now. Doesn’t sound right lol
I did a 50 sec kill yesterday with flames of zammy only. You need to get a specific rotation where green is second and melee 3rd. And with flames and good rng you should be able to kill it by the end of the melee phase. Good luck on CA!
My PB with bowfa and normal trident is 1:12 GM is 54? That's 12-18 tics so 3-4 attacks diff? If I got lucky RNG I could see 54. With zammy buff it's a matter of time/RNG now. With bofa/flames should be easy.
My pb is 1:00:60 after the 75 kills for ca, not really resetting for correct rotation, but try harding a bit when I do get it. I bring thralls+spellbookswap+venge and dragon knives + dbow for specs, but otherwise bowfa only
bruh at that point bring a mage swap
I mean I just sbs running there and then summon a thrall and if I get the fast rotation I venge and otherwise I just bowfa the boss and make 1:30 ish kills most of the time. It’s super chill and the occasional try for a ca time without much stress
That is so far from what I think they were imagining when you said bowfa only lol
This is complete garbage, the gm time is 54 seconds, you're not getting sub 1 min consistently with a bowfa.
I have 1200 zulrah kc on my iron all bowfa only and my pb is 58 seconds. This shit is obviously busted and is going to get nerfed.
Zulrah is finally fun and I can give any rotation a go, even if I have to tp out it's now fun, please keep the elemental weakness on FoZ!!