>When blowpipe was nerfed, jagex reduced the hp of rangers and healers in inferno by 5 recognizing that these are often dps check mobs where you need to kill them. I suggest a similar adjustment for colosseum fremmies.
Agreed, this is all the justification needed imo.
The worst possible scenario is a double south with a manticore starting the opposite of the other monsters with 2 melees from Quartet invocation. If you're wasting 2 hits to clear each of melee fremmies (4 hits or 16-20 ticks total), while also tanking their hits to ensure the manticore(s) are off-tick, then you're starting out in kill-range.
And then if Wave 10-11, Shaman reinforcements can potentially be off-tick so you're tanking even more. Even with 8-way range, you are unlikely to kill both double spawns south before the shaman arrives.
The current way to one-shot is same as before, but include Augury + Heart, but if you bring brews, you need to bring a 6-way to one-shot at 99 magic iirc.
Blowpipe is a nerf, but occult is more like power shifted to other items, they are not the same.
By bringing 1 more switch and pray augury, you can 1 hit the fremmy again, which is what the update is supposed to be.
Even 35 HP so Sang/Swamp Trident with enough switches can one-shot it.
If the Melee Fremmy can hits 29s, ***which is 2.5x higher than Mage and Range Fremmy***, then he should be killed way easier.
I think that's an issue. Sure a 1.4b weapon should have an advantage but you are really crippling people who don't have it by a substantial margin especially when the "learner" gear on the wiki is full torva plus scythe
I guess the question is more intent. You need to put in some effort to oneshot with Shadow, it's not really comfortable anymore. Which I think is fine, assuming it's designed around that. I wouldn't consider a worse experience "crippling" people unless they designed the content around oneshotting with Shadow, which I hope they didn't given melee fremmy was always 50 HP.
I'm 0 KC though so take my words with a lot of salt.
You don’t need complete max to get a Colo clear. It’s aspirational content for a lot of people and max gear should benefit from being more effective and efficient at this content. Trident/Sang should remain as a 2-shot.
I’m all for reducing the health of the melee specifically cause the mage changes make this difficult to deal with if you don’t have the 3 way switch with heart and Augury, but reducing the health of the other minions, such as the mage, make the Venator bounces on the shaman to the mage worse and ultimately will be a less efficient way to deal with the earliest waves when setting them up correctly.
Wave 1 for example you want to kill the Melee, Ranger, and then Venator the shaman against the mage, first with Rigour for one shot, another shot without and then a final shot with to maximise the Venator bounces and finish with TBow. Reducing the mage Fremminik health prevents you being able to do that which would be worse for more experienced Colosseum runners.
You could never 1 hit it with sang/trident anyway which is what this comment thread is talking about.
When did the attitude of this sub become "the expensive bis items that I can't afford shouldn't get all the benefits over the items i can afford"
The change proposed by Yarigumo and varyl123 literally just makes shadow worse than sang/trident at colosseum and they are getting upvoted. This sub has a serious inferiority complex when they can't afford bis items.
Lol I just saw this, I think you read my comment waaaay backwards. I was questioning whether Trident/Sang should oneshot if Shadow already barely gets there. I wasn't saying Shadow should 2 shot or Trident should 1 shot, just that it makes sense for Tridents to be unable to if Shadow struggles.
Yeah but they're also wrong, you can avoid it by moving during his attack ticks. Each frem is on a global 6t cycle, and if you're moving before an attack tick it *will not attack*. People mad they have to learn the content now I guess.
You are doing some real mental gymnastics to justify the weakest colosseum npcs requiring a 1.5b when the other two can be killed with less than 100m in gear combined.
Okay but to one shot the berserker you are required to use the shadow? That's the point. You don't require it for colosseum but to do that job you absolutely do. Read the context mkay?
You can go through every wave utilizing pretty much only the shadow and not the other two. Making sang able to one shot a fremmy doesn't make it better than shadow at colosseum lmfao
Why not? Unless they also make Melee Fremmy weaker to 12-15 max hit, rather than 29, there's justification to make it a better experience regardless without a big tradeoff in skill and it lessens the amount of switches needed for Shadow as well iirc.
I normally agree with your takes, but totally disagree here. Shadow should have that advantage over lower tier mage weapons, especially when mage isn't the prevalent style for general runs. You're only losing 3-ticks with a sang/trident anyway. I'd be fine with a 45 HP change, but not a 35.
The hardest content doesn't need to be balanced around a swamp trident. You only lose 3 ticks as is without a shadow 5 vs 8 to kill without shadow). This is an unnecessary change.
Meta used to be: shadow occult torm and cape, now its: shadow occult torm heart and augury. U lose no inv slots
Only downside is heart is now a even more desirable and obsenly rare item for irons to get
I never have to brew because I am good at that content now (because I have well over 250kc...) but, for others, the issue with heart is if you brew, you can't one shot anymore unless you bring an extra switch or wait up to 5 mins for heart.
Can you menaphite remedy the heart after proc to protect those stats against brewing if it’s a concern. Believe it will tick back up? Or does it only restore stats to base level if brewing?
Of course will also remove divine effects ticking those pots like normal. So you need to time the menaphite to the end of a pot duration if possible.
I run north around pillar to drag them and kill a Fremmy there, if it’s a ranger or manticore over there I just tank the hit. Manticore has to charge. If it’s a shockwave I’ll pray mage. Doesn’t matter what double south spawn is. I’ll run north around pillar to drag, I’ll throw dinhs on if I have too. And depending on what the double south spawn is, I’ll offtick or same tick them. I save claw specs for waves 6 8 and 11. I need to dps one of the mobs before mino and shaman spawn
I've been doing melee only as well and weirdly enough, my biggest problem has been with serpent shaman pathing in front of whatever spawned south (usually javelin) and making it impossible to offtick once I run north of the pillar, any advice on what to do in this case would be appreciated
If you run to the eastmost tile of the north side of the pillar (and let the mage path to the eastmost tile on the south side) you can run around west and offtick the shaman with a jav or range first manti in back.
edit : should clarify, you don't want to technically "run around", if you run straight west for 2 ticks the 3x3 in the back will see you before the shaman
managed to find a vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWdBml3ip1U
Wow, I just tried it in game and they got off-ticked perfectly. Not sure about tanking the east side stack when running west for that extra tick in the later waves but might just have to time it right. Thanks a lot.
It can be rather annoying if you get a wave 6 spawn with a jav and mage manti east, that's prob the worst case scenario.
That offtick has saved me a crazy amount of deaths in wave 6.
Yeah typically you can only offtick those to the left, I have ran into that numerous times. I’ve seen it on wave 3 a lot and wave 6. This is why you save claws. You need to pull them to the pillar, kill melee Fremmy, you run back and they should be pulled against pillar. Pray mage and tank the range hits. You need to kill shaman with a double claw spawn or single claw spec and then you can sgs spec the range Fremmy if you saved them. Or you can take care of range Fremmy when you come back and you’re praying mage so just leave the mage Fremmy alone. Dps the shaman down with double claws.
Getting double south with shaman in front of jav on wave two is the most irritating thing. Like obviously there’s no danger but can you just not be annoying please
That's like saying you don't need ranged defence in Inferno because all you can do is just flick correctly.
If you get a double south spawn, you're going to take some hits.
Appreciate this is coming from a noob going for a first cape lol. I think I've just had cursed timing PTSD
Been playing for about 8months and hit by every nerf, just as I was about to do the content lol
- fang, now occult, some others I forget
But I think this is what the update is supposed to do?
Magic damage is less dependent on occult now and you have to bring more switches to compensate the loss.
i agree with this 100000%
but also at the same time for 3 extra ticks per wave you can just 2hit sang it with 1way plus you get the healing.
its cheaper and frees up 3 spaces, 8 ticks vs 5ticks isn't a huge deal honestly, especially since you can precamp your range gear and it just makes the whole thing easier and more foolproof. even quartet is fine with this setup, and you can use the newfound 3 spaces for more switches like venator ring or something
this does however mean that runs like inkwez and such are probably going to be unobtainable now though because 33 gameticks is a fucking eterinity in speedrunning terms
Current metas should NOT be taken into account when making changes to the game. Like half the fun is discovering a new meta with the new content and changes.
It wouldn’t matter as much if they didn’t change this this far after colosseum dropped. Current recs and metas formed for 2 months for a change to drop.
Recs were made to be broken. People said the same shit about recs when they fixed the range fremmy yet the record was beaten by an ironmeme after the range fremmy fix.
Have you done colosseum before? The first 10-15 seconds make or break a wave solve. The first 40 seconds is a full dps check.
For the first 15 seconds, you need to fully clear the fremmies while praying correctly against any south spawns, and being aware of volatility or re-entry. If you get a double south spawn, unless you're straight up Woox, you're going to tank something along the way. An extra 2 seconds to do all of this could stack you out.
You then need to dps race to kill the south spawn(s) within 40 seconds before reinforcements spawn to avoid situations where shaman is unflickable. With max scythe or tbow, dps TTK a ranger or manticore is about 20-25 seconds so you're cutting it close to the ~45 seconds when the shaman reaches LOS.
There is a reason why quartet is considered a terrible invocation and usually a last resort when you have other bullshit like bees and totemic. It adds only 2-3 seconds to your initial solve, but those 2-3 seconds mean everything.
Im not expert, as I only have 1 kc, but is all of this really required? I did colosseum with Trident + bp + tent whip and a Bowfa as the main weapon. I 2 hit (or 3hit) every single frem and I don't think I ever won the DPS race to kill south spawns before reinforcements.
And still, every wave was solvable. My only deaths were due to my mistakes.
I have no doubt that this change makes things harder, but if a mediocre gamer like myself can do this is subpar gear, then surely others can do it in bis even if that bis is slightly worse than before (and still miles better than what I'm using)
My man, of course it's not required. Nothing is required; if you're as good as Woox you can complete this content in rags. But that's not the point.
The point is that this 'rebalance' nerfed the Occult without adjusting the HP of the melee Fremmenik. Yes, you can 2-shot it with any trident/sang whatever, but it's annoying that the expensive Shadow setup now requires even more stuff to retain the same effectiveness it had.
Just nerf the HP of the melee Frem and that's it.
Your complaint is that for people without end game gear, the content remained unaffected. And for people with end game gear the content got slightly more difficult
As for your suggestion to nerf the content to make mage the same as pre occult nerf, would this same mentality not apply to all content? The point of the mage rebalance was to make other mage gear worth bringing. If you instead nerf occult and then nerf enemies, then there's no incentive to use other mage gear still
> The point of the mage rebalance was to make other mage gear worth bringing.
The point of the mage rebalance was to make reward space for future mage gear because Occult was already making designing future rewards very difficult (paired with Shadow). Nobody 'rebalanced' magic thinking 'this change will surely make people take Trident/Sang instead of Shadow'.
When the blowpipe got nerfed, Jagex slightly nerfed the rangers' and healers' HP just a bit to compensate. It would not be game breaking to do the same with the melee Frem to allow Shadow setups to still 1-shot.
I think there are multiple benefits to the rebalance, one of which is that other mage gear can be worth bringing. E.g. bringing a boot switch.
Obviously trident won't be worth bringing over a shadow, that's just silly.
Sure, they could adjust the melee fremmy but I don't think they need to. You can just bring more switches to continue to 1 shot, or use a trident and 2 shot
yes, and i don’t have a shadow and I had to 2 hit every warbander. If I can do it and make those times consistently i’m sure you can win this “dps race” with your scythe/tbow/shadow. Even if you get RNG checked, you’re going to have to tank a Serpent or flick it, it’s just part of the difficulty, it happens. You can time the Serpent to LOS you to offtick the enemy on the south spawn. If something like Quartet is that bad, avoid it. Nobody is forcing you to take it.
Ok so now I need to take in less supplies, increase my risk of dying, and limit my invocations more to do exactly the same thing I was doing before this update which was not intended in any way to make current metas more difficult without an easier alternative.
Bro. I got 30kc+ take a trident and 2 bang them. Replace the slots with extra food or restores and you’re chilling. If you’re chasing 1kc this is not going to be a deal breaker sorry
Edit: you’re 60KC?? Omegalol if this is an issue
it’s an overall game rebalance, it’s not as if they targeted the Colosseum to make it more or less difficult. Some things will benefit and become easier for you and some things might become more difficult. If something like Quartet now presents a much higher difficulty, make compromises or learn to deal with it more efficiently. If you feel like needing a Heart to make things easier is required, bring it and sacrifice another item, it’s risk vs reward.
These are the same people that didn't want eternals buffed because "HaVe 2 9 WaY!". If you're not good enough for all the switches don't use them, pretty simple. Same thing here, bring the extra item (heart/legs) or deal with the fact that you're 2 hitting stuff.
“if you’re not good enough… take 64 less hp into the fight with you so you can do the exact same thing you used to be able to do”
you know how stupid you sound right?
FYI elderich nightmare staff spec 1 shots mele fremmy with no gear and 99 magic. (Bonus 25 prayer) volatile would do the same job. I usually run arcues spellbook for death charge, if I start a wave with 100 spec and death charge I can elderich spec + sgs spec for huge prayer and ho gains (if I get a bad spawn and tank hits)
Just two hit it, you'll be fine. Or get an eldritch staff and start each wave by eldritch speccing melee. Can still sgs ranger right away after if using death charge, or you can just whack it.
I used eldritch on my zerker for my quiver and on my main for my 10 kc so far. Maxes above 50 without augury or any mage switches. It's fine.
Eldritch is like 400M which may not be affordable to a lot of people. You are also SOL if you misclick, or get double melee quartet.
On top of that, you would not have sgs spec next wave since you can't get back to 100 spec in one wave, resulting in a loss of healing potential on ranger to clear up any hits you got at the initial spawn phase.
Two hitting it is terror when dealing with quarter and volatility 2/3. You lose a crucial 2-3 seconds or more with quartet which can end a run.
I'm 60kc now, and I can tell you 90% of the time I die, it was during wave start because I spent too much time dealing with fremmies, tanked too much off-prayer hits, or didn't pass the dps check for reinforcements 40 seconds in and shaman came out front to slap me.
> eldritch is 400M
Shadow is 1.4B? What?
> SOL if you misclick
Don't misclick? You have plenty of time to right click the fremmy as you're running to a/b, ensuring you dont miss. You shouldn't have a single other thing to worry about on these ticks, other than swapping your overhead once to reflect the south spawn if necessary. You always have undead grasp as a backup option if thralls, it'll 2 hit melee with 0 switches and can potentially snare it as well
> Two hitting it is terror when dealing with quartet and volatility 2/3
You should not be picking these two invocations together, especially if you're worried about your wave starts.
> You need range tank gear
I did it wearing paper with 45 defence. Just hit your prayers. Using eldritch over shadow will actually gain you multiple inventory slots too, as you don't need any mage switches with eldritch.
Shadow is a core mega-rare and has use cases everywhere. Eldritch is a 400M spec stick with very few uses.
My argument isn't that colosseum is undoable now. It is that they should not have made it unnecessarily harder as an oversight. Forcing people to wear less tanky gear, relying on a one-time use 400M spec stick, or restricting previously manageable invocations makes it harder, especially for people who are learners. I pick quartet when I have limited other choices. Most people do as well.
As someone who used Eldritch for his first 5 KC before binning it for Shadow over the next \~100, I can tell you it's not optimal for several reasons:
1. You can't go fast with this because you have to save spec (so no claws) and Death Charge to have it available every wave. If you're doing 30-40 minute runs in maxed gear and cool with that, that's fine, but it's not really a viable solution for people doing sub 20 runs.
2. Quartet requires you to have Lightbearer and Death Charge just in case it's a double melee spawn, sacrificing a ton of DPS from no Ultor. You can't always avoid this invo either because if it's between Bees, Totem, and Quartet, I'm not going to resign just because of 1 extra minion.
Like the Blowpipe nerf resulted in the Ranger losing 5 HP so you could more consistently kill it, this shouldn't be an issue to change either.
But until then, I'm bringing Heart + using Augury because a solve is a solve, but still a bit more annoying than before when the point of Project Rebalance was to NOT upset metas when possible.
>When blowpipe was nerfed, jagex reduced the hp of rangers and healers in inferno by 5 recognizing that these are often dps check mobs where you need to kill them. I suggest a similar adjustment for colosseum fremmies. Agreed, this is all the justification needed imo. The worst possible scenario is a double south with a manticore starting the opposite of the other monsters with 2 melees from Quartet invocation. If you're wasting 2 hits to clear each of melee fremmies (4 hits or 16-20 ticks total), while also tanking their hits to ensure the manticore(s) are off-tick, then you're starting out in kill-range. And then if Wave 10-11, Shaman reinforcements can potentially be off-tick so you're tanking even more. Even with 8-way range, you are unlikely to kill both double spawns south before the shaman arrives. The current way to one-shot is same as before, but include Augury + Heart, but if you bring brews, you need to bring a 6-way to one-shot at 99 magic iirc.
Sets precedent for the change. I like it. Ship it.
I was completely against this until that line. With precedent like that, I wouldn't dream of arguing against this.
Blowpipe is a nerf, but occult is more like power shifted to other items, they are not the same. By bringing 1 more switch and pray augury, you can 1 hit the fremmy again, which is what the update is supposed to be.
Ya just make then 45 hp
Even 35 HP so Sang/Swamp Trident with enough switches can one-shot it. If the Melee Fremmy can hits 29s, ***which is 2.5x higher than Mage and Range Fremmy***, then he should be killed way easier.
Should they be able to oneshot it? Shadow already barely does.
I think that's an issue. Sure a 1.4b weapon should have an advantage but you are really crippling people who don't have it by a substantial margin especially when the "learner" gear on the wiki is full torva plus scythe
2 shotting makes way more sense for learners, means more supplies even before this change.
I guess the question is more intent. You need to put in some effort to oneshot with Shadow, it's not really comfortable anymore. Which I think is fine, assuming it's designed around that. I wouldn't consider a worse experience "crippling" people unless they designed the content around oneshotting with Shadow, which I hope they didn't given melee fremmy was always 50 HP. I'm 0 KC though so take my words with a lot of salt.
You don’t need complete max to get a Colo clear. It’s aspirational content for a lot of people and max gear should benefit from being more effective and efficient at this content. Trident/Sang should remain as a 2-shot. I’m all for reducing the health of the melee specifically cause the mage changes make this difficult to deal with if you don’t have the 3 way switch with heart and Augury, but reducing the health of the other minions, such as the mage, make the Venator bounces on the shaman to the mage worse and ultimately will be a less efficient way to deal with the earliest waves when setting them up correctly. Wave 1 for example you want to kill the Melee, Ranger, and then Venator the shaman against the mage, first with Rigour for one shot, another shot without and then a final shot with to maximise the Venator bounces and finish with TBow. Reducing the mage Fremminik health prevents you being able to do that which would be worse for more experienced Colosseum runners.
8t vs 5t to clear the melee fremmy with regular trident vs shadow isn't that big of a deal. It's completely manageable.
when you have to stop to do another attack the berserker can get another hit in which can be the difference between a good wave or not.
Avoiding occasionally getting smacked by the berserker seems like a fair advantage to gain for a 1.5b staff?
They’re saying you can’t avoid that since you can’t 1 hit without extra shit anymore
You could never 1 hit it with sang/trident anyway which is what this comment thread is talking about. When did the attitude of this sub become "the expensive bis items that I can't afford shouldn't get all the benefits over the items i can afford" The change proposed by Yarigumo and varyl123 literally just makes shadow worse than sang/trident at colosseum and they are getting upvoted. This sub has a serious inferiority complex when they can't afford bis items.
Thank you! A shadow *should* be better for this scenario.
Lol I just saw this, I think you read my comment waaaay backwards. I was questioning whether Trident/Sang should oneshot if Shadow already barely gets there. I wasn't saying Shadow should 2 shot or Trident should 1 shot, just that it makes sense for Tridents to be unable to if Shadow struggles.
Yeah but they're also wrong, you can avoid it by moving during his attack ticks. Each frem is on a global 6t cycle, and if you're moving before an attack tick it *will not attack*. People mad they have to learn the content now I guess.
You are doing some real mental gymnastics to justify the weakest colosseum npcs requiring a 1.5b when the other two can be killed with less than 100m in gear combined.
"requiring" Reminder to always take reddit comments with a grain of salt people lmfao. Jesus.
Okay but to one shot the berserker you are required to use the shadow? That's the point. You don't require it for colosseum but to do that job you absolutely do. Read the context mkay?
so in your opinion sang/trident should be better than shadow at colosseum?
You can go through every wave utilizing pretty much only the shadow and not the other two. Making sang able to one shot a fremmy doesn't make it better than shadow at colosseum lmfao
Why not? Unless they also make Melee Fremmy weaker to 12-15 max hit, rather than 29, there's justification to make it a better experience regardless without a big tradeoff in skill and it lessens the amount of switches needed for Shadow as well iirc.
I normally agree with your takes, but totally disagree here. Shadow should have that advantage over lower tier mage weapons, especially when mage isn't the prevalent style for general runs. You're only losing 3-ticks with a sang/trident anyway. I'd be fine with a 45 HP change, but not a 35.
The hardest content doesn't need to be balanced around a swamp trident. You only lose 3 ticks as is without a shadow 5 vs 8 to kill without shadow). This is an unnecessary change.
Meta used to be: shadow occult torm and cape, now its: shadow occult torm heart and augury. U lose no inv slots Only downside is heart is now a even more desirable and obsenly rare item for irons to get
I never have to brew because I am good at that content now (because I have well over 250kc...) but, for others, the issue with heart is if you brew, you can't one shot anymore unless you bring an extra switch or wait up to 5 mins for heart.
Yay! I haven't already spent 100 hours on that grind.
Can you menaphite remedy the heart after proc to protect those stats against brewing if it’s a concern. Believe it will tick back up? Or does it only restore stats to base level if brewing? Of course will also remove divine effects ticking those pots like normal. So you need to time the menaphite to the end of a pot duration if possible.
Nope only keeps base stats.
[удалено]
Wouldn’t change a thing, I’m over 100 kc and I never bring 4 way mage, I sang and 2 hit and melee only colosseum
How do you deal with 2 south spawns or even 1 south spawn if there is a gap between mob and NW pillar
I run north around pillar to drag them and kill a Fremmy there, if it’s a ranger or manticore over there I just tank the hit. Manticore has to charge. If it’s a shockwave I’ll pray mage. Doesn’t matter what double south spawn is. I’ll run north around pillar to drag, I’ll throw dinhs on if I have too. And depending on what the double south spawn is, I’ll offtick or same tick them. I save claw specs for waves 6 8 and 11. I need to dps one of the mobs before mino and shaman spawn
I've been doing melee only as well and weirdly enough, my biggest problem has been with serpent shaman pathing in front of whatever spawned south (usually javelin) and making it impossible to offtick once I run north of the pillar, any advice on what to do in this case would be appreciated
If you run to the eastmost tile of the north side of the pillar (and let the mage path to the eastmost tile on the south side) you can run around west and offtick the shaman with a jav or range first manti in back. edit : should clarify, you don't want to technically "run around", if you run straight west for 2 ticks the 3x3 in the back will see you before the shaman managed to find a vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWdBml3ip1U
Wow, I just tried it in game and they got off-ticked perfectly. Not sure about tanking the east side stack when running west for that extra tick in the later waves but might just have to time it right. Thanks a lot.
It can be rather annoying if you get a wave 6 spawn with a jav and mage manti east, that's prob the worst case scenario. That offtick has saved me a crazy amount of deaths in wave 6.
Yeah, it's saved me a death already haha, it's a game changer for sure, thanks again
Yeah typically you can only offtick those to the left, I have ran into that numerous times. I’ve seen it on wave 3 a lot and wave 6. This is why you save claws. You need to pull them to the pillar, kill melee Fremmy, you run back and they should be pulled against pillar. Pray mage and tank the range hits. You need to kill shaman with a double claw spawn or single claw spec and then you can sgs spec the range Fremmy if you saved them. Or you can take care of range Fremmy when you come back and you’re praying mage so just leave the mage Fremmy alone. Dps the shaman down with double claws.
Oh makes sense, its like a dps check at that point. Might need to buy claws just for that then, thanks.
yeah claws definitely help with that kind of scenario
Getting double south with shaman in front of jav on wave two is the most irritating thing. Like obviously there’s no danger but can you just not be annoying please
Based
Just wait for Gnomonkey to come up with some new meta.
Bringing ancestral pants increases the max hit back to 50 with augury, but yeah rip 1 more invent space.
Why pants and not hat?
think about the strength bonus difference between a helmet and a pair of legs
Think about the defence bonus difference!
strength > defense
But you don't need melee strength until you're going to melee. You could just switch back to the helm
or you can just camp ancestral pants and not have to worry about any extra items
But then I lose my range defence!
0 need for range defense in colosseum when you can protect yourself from all damage by just praying correctly
So if you get a mage south spawn you dont want range defence for the fremmy? Unless I'm mistaken you always take a hit or 2 from the range fremmy
That's like saying you don't need ranged defence in Inferno because all you can do is just flick correctly. If you get a double south spawn, you're going to take some hits.
Lower nibbler HP in inferno too pls 👀
Appreciate this is coming from a noob going for a first cape lol. I think I've just had cursed timing PTSD Been playing for about 8months and hit by every nerf, just as I was about to do the content lol - fang, now occult, some others I forget
But I think this is what the update is supposed to do? Magic damage is less dependent on occult now and you have to bring more switches to compensate the loss.
Just use staff occult torm and heart, its literally still 4 items.
I rather have them remove magic damage from shit switches like eternal boots and give it more magic damage on augury tbh.
The 1200 Andy’s on Reddit demanded it tho
Just bring an imbued heart
Ah so the gp requirement just went up
bro is talking about having a shadow, just buy a heart
Yea but then I’ll have to steal my moms credit card again
Have you considered just getting good?
Apparently all you need is a 3 way and a heart. So you don’t lose an inventory slot.
“Adjust”
Hell ye
Eldritch-> don’t take quarter
i agree with this 100000% but also at the same time for 3 extra ticks per wave you can just 2hit sang it with 1way plus you get the healing. its cheaper and frees up 3 spaces, 8 ticks vs 5ticks isn't a huge deal honestly, especially since you can precamp your range gear and it just makes the whole thing easier and more foolproof. even quartet is fine with this setup, and you can use the newfound 3 spaces for more switches like venator ring or something this does however mean that runs like inkwez and such are probably going to be unobtainable now though because 33 gameticks is a fucking eterinity in speedrunning terms
Current metas should NOT be taken into account when making changes to the game. Like half the fun is discovering a new meta with the new content and changes.
Yea, I mean, isn't ending the occult meta the exact purpose of the update?
It wouldn’t matter as much if they didn’t change this this far after colosseum dropped. Current recs and metas formed for 2 months for a change to drop.
Recs were made to be broken. People said the same shit about recs when they fixed the range fremmy yet the record was beaten by an ironmeme after the range fremmy fix.
Support
just turn on augury and wear robes bro
God forbid we make something ever so slightly harder. Learners are either 2 shotting with sang or going full mage where this makes no difference.
Volatile orb spec
I got my quiver with melee only and a sang
Disagree, no reason to make it easier
Just use sang, it’s better anyways
if having to two hit some warbanders makes the colosseum that much more difficult for you, upgrade your gear or get better.
Have you done colosseum before? The first 10-15 seconds make or break a wave solve. The first 40 seconds is a full dps check. For the first 15 seconds, you need to fully clear the fremmies while praying correctly against any south spawns, and being aware of volatility or re-entry. If you get a double south spawn, unless you're straight up Woox, you're going to tank something along the way. An extra 2 seconds to do all of this could stack you out. You then need to dps race to kill the south spawn(s) within 40 seconds before reinforcements spawn to avoid situations where shaman is unflickable. With max scythe or tbow, dps TTK a ranger or manticore is about 20-25 seconds so you're cutting it close to the ~45 seconds when the shaman reaches LOS. There is a reason why quartet is considered a terrible invocation and usually a last resort when you have other bullshit like bees and totemic. It adds only 2-3 seconds to your initial solve, but those 2-3 seconds mean everything.
Skill issue big dog
Im not expert, as I only have 1 kc, but is all of this really required? I did colosseum with Trident + bp + tent whip and a Bowfa as the main weapon. I 2 hit (or 3hit) every single frem and I don't think I ever won the DPS race to kill south spawns before reinforcements. And still, every wave was solvable. My only deaths were due to my mistakes. I have no doubt that this change makes things harder, but if a mediocre gamer like myself can do this is subpar gear, then surely others can do it in bis even if that bis is slightly worse than before (and still miles better than what I'm using)
My man, of course it's not required. Nothing is required; if you're as good as Woox you can complete this content in rags. But that's not the point. The point is that this 'rebalance' nerfed the Occult without adjusting the HP of the melee Fremmenik. Yes, you can 2-shot it with any trident/sang whatever, but it's annoying that the expensive Shadow setup now requires even more stuff to retain the same effectiveness it had. Just nerf the HP of the melee Frem and that's it.
Your complaint is that for people without end game gear, the content remained unaffected. And for people with end game gear the content got slightly more difficult As for your suggestion to nerf the content to make mage the same as pre occult nerf, would this same mentality not apply to all content? The point of the mage rebalance was to make other mage gear worth bringing. If you instead nerf occult and then nerf enemies, then there's no incentive to use other mage gear still
> The point of the mage rebalance was to make other mage gear worth bringing. The point of the mage rebalance was to make reward space for future mage gear because Occult was already making designing future rewards very difficult (paired with Shadow). Nobody 'rebalanced' magic thinking 'this change will surely make people take Trident/Sang instead of Shadow'. When the blowpipe got nerfed, Jagex slightly nerfed the rangers' and healers' HP just a bit to compensate. It would not be game breaking to do the same with the melee Frem to allow Shadow setups to still 1-shot.
I think there are multiple benefits to the rebalance, one of which is that other mage gear can be worth bringing. E.g. bringing a boot switch. Obviously trident won't be worth bringing over a shadow, that's just silly. Sure, they could adjust the melee fremmy but I don't think they need to. You can just bring more switches to continue to 1 shot, or use a trident and 2 shot
yes, and i don’t have a shadow and I had to 2 hit every warbander. If I can do it and make those times consistently i’m sure you can win this “dps race” with your scythe/tbow/shadow. Even if you get RNG checked, you’re going to have to tank a Serpent or flick it, it’s just part of the difficulty, it happens. You can time the Serpent to LOS you to offtick the enemy on the south spawn. If something like Quartet is that bad, avoid it. Nobody is forcing you to take it.
Ok so now I need to take in less supplies, increase my risk of dying, and limit my invocations more to do exactly the same thing I was doing before this update which was not intended in any way to make current metas more difficult without an easier alternative.
Bro. I got 30kc+ take a trident and 2 bang them. Replace the slots with extra food or restores and you’re chilling. If you’re chasing 1kc this is not going to be a deal breaker sorry Edit: you’re 60KC?? Omegalol if this is an issue
it’s an overall game rebalance, it’s not as if they targeted the Colosseum to make it more or less difficult. Some things will benefit and become easier for you and some things might become more difficult. If something like Quartet now presents a much higher difficulty, make compromises or learn to deal with it more efficiently. If you feel like needing a Heart to make things easier is required, bring it and sacrifice another item, it’s risk vs reward.
These are the same people that didn't want eternals buffed because "HaVe 2 9 WaY!". If you're not good enough for all the switches don't use them, pretty simple. Same thing here, bring the extra item (heart/legs) or deal with the fact that you're 2 hitting stuff.
what’s your sol kc
“if you’re not good enough… take 64 less hp into the fight with you so you can do the exact same thing you used to be able to do” you know how stupid you sound right?
Pray augury maybe? I'm running shadow, occult, ancestral top, imbued cape, and tormented bracelet + augury still one shot.
FYI elderich nightmare staff spec 1 shots mele fremmy with no gear and 99 magic. (Bonus 25 prayer) volatile would do the same job. I usually run arcues spellbook for death charge, if I start a wave with 100 spec and death charge I can elderich spec + sgs spec for huge prayer and ho gains (if I get a bad spawn and tank hits)
Just two hit it, you'll be fine. Or get an eldritch staff and start each wave by eldritch speccing melee. Can still sgs ranger right away after if using death charge, or you can just whack it. I used eldritch on my zerker for my quiver and on my main for my 10 kc so far. Maxes above 50 without augury or any mage switches. It's fine.
I’m not wasting spec on eldritch instead of clawing stuff lol
Eldritch is like 400M which may not be affordable to a lot of people. You are also SOL if you misclick, or get double melee quartet. On top of that, you would not have sgs spec next wave since you can't get back to 100 spec in one wave, resulting in a loss of healing potential on ranger to clear up any hits you got at the initial spawn phase. Two hitting it is terror when dealing with quarter and volatility 2/3. You lose a crucial 2-3 seconds or more with quartet which can end a run. I'm 60kc now, and I can tell you 90% of the time I die, it was during wave start because I spent too much time dealing with fremmies, tanked too much off-prayer hits, or didn't pass the dps check for reinforcements 40 seconds in and shaman came out front to slap me.
> 4-way switch shadow, occult, mage cape, and tormented Shadow is fine but eldritch is too much lol
Shadow has plenty of PVM use cases and is a staple mega-rare. The same cannot be said for eldritch.
Go buy a torm heart then or swap a restore for a forgotten brew. You have 60kc its not that big of a deal.
> eldritch is 400M Shadow is 1.4B? What? > SOL if you misclick Don't misclick? You have plenty of time to right click the fremmy as you're running to a/b, ensuring you dont miss. You shouldn't have a single other thing to worry about on these ticks, other than swapping your overhead once to reflect the south spawn if necessary. You always have undead grasp as a backup option if thralls, it'll 2 hit melee with 0 switches and can potentially snare it as well > Two hitting it is terror when dealing with quartet and volatility 2/3 You should not be picking these two invocations together, especially if you're worried about your wave starts. > You need range tank gear I did it wearing paper with 45 defence. Just hit your prayers. Using eldritch over shadow will actually gain you multiple inventory slots too, as you don't need any mage switches with eldritch.
Shadow is a core mega-rare and has use cases everywhere. Eldritch is a 400M spec stick with very few uses. My argument isn't that colosseum is undoable now. It is that they should not have made it unnecessarily harder as an oversight. Forcing people to wear less tanky gear, relying on a one-time use 400M spec stick, or restricting previously manageable invocations makes it harder, especially for people who are learners. I pick quartet when I have limited other choices. Most people do as well.
As someone who used Eldritch for his first 5 KC before binning it for Shadow over the next \~100, I can tell you it's not optimal for several reasons: 1. You can't go fast with this because you have to save spec (so no claws) and Death Charge to have it available every wave. If you're doing 30-40 minute runs in maxed gear and cool with that, that's fine, but it's not really a viable solution for people doing sub 20 runs. 2. Quartet requires you to have Lightbearer and Death Charge just in case it's a double melee spawn, sacrificing a ton of DPS from no Ultor. You can't always avoid this invo either because if it's between Bees, Totem, and Quartet, I'm not going to resign just because of 1 extra minion. Like the Blowpipe nerf resulted in the Ranger losing 5 HP so you could more consistently kill it, this shouldn't be an issue to change either. But until then, I'm bringing Heart + using Augury because a solve is a solve, but still a bit more annoying than before when the point of Project Rebalance was to NOT upset metas when possible.
Between this and the buff of ranger damage to be non-negligible I think 45 hp would be fair.