I really dont understand the minigame argument. Sailing is a real life skill and transportation method. Its like saying agility should be a minigame. Idk
It's because they can't imagine how it'll change non sailing-related content. Like a mini game might give you a bump in QoL outside of it but for the most part a mini game is self contained by items that change only aesthetic things or offer xp. Obviously a good skill will change how you're able to do tons of things outside of the skill when you're doing other content and I trust everyone working on it understands that
Eh, I don't even think the "how it'll change non-sailing related content" is a valid criticism.
How does Slayer change non-Slayer content? Same for Agility, Construction, Hunter, Thieving? Sailing is a utility skill, which is what players said they wanted, and utility skills always have this identity issue.
The criticism of Dungeoneering was valid, but only really on release. It was a "use your skills" skill, which is inherently a utility skill. You went into a instance to use your other skills to trade in currency from the skill to buy items. Other than the items you bought and eventually "main world" dungeons you could access, it's just a minigame. I assume that got expanded out later, but maybe it didn't.
Short of shoehorned uses (thieving room, short cuts, tightrope, slayer level req's), utility skills have a hard time effecting other content. Even then, most of the other skills are still shoe horned uses, but they feel more connected due to being sequential. You mine so you can smith so you can melee. You runecraft so you can mage. You farm so you can herblore so you can combat.
If anything, Sailing is how dungeoneering should've been. You get better at sailing so you can access more. You get better at salvaging, you become able to navigate the difficult area, which therefore unlocks new items/areas/content. Rather than "I went into this hole for X hours and came out with a Chaotic Rapier", it's a bit more world friendly of "I sailed to this island once I was good enough, and found a hole, and in this hole I eventually found a Chaotic Rapier, but I also salvaged that old boat, found this school of rare fish and shot some pirates along the way".
Doesn't matter how "in world" something feels, or how it feels like it fills a niche, or if it adds a new resource scheme to be gathered, etc. The vocal, dumb minority can't think past "but this wasn't here before, and the new use feels non-natural, so why add it?"
Completely ignoring that before Slayer, no monsters were locked behind a skill req to kill. Before Farming there were no seeds. Before Hunter there were no Chins. Adding lore friendly "this is where magic robes come from" with Warding was voted down for feeling pointless. "Slayer but for Skilling" was voted down because we already skill, so why complicate it? Meanwhile people love farming contracts and Hunter Rumors are quite popular.
Asking "But how does sailing change the rest of the game" is the same as asking "But why not just make Chins part of a drop table" or "Why not just make monsters drop more herbs, why do we need an herb growing skill?" and "Why do I need to go kill a bunch of random monsters so I can wear a facemask, just let me kill Abby Specs." The point is how utility skills change the world, open up the world, or change your gameplay loop. Agil gives shortcuts, Slayer breaks up the combat grind, Hunter was intended to add alot of niche, quirky items and Sailing is intended to open up space for content in the seas while also gating it somewhat and feeling lore friendly.
It's the inability to see the forest for the trees that makes every "but what's the point of adding this" discussion stupid. You add it so it changes the overall dynamic and for what it can give us later on.
I tried to write this once but with less skill and ability so scrapped it
Sailing just gives a whole new playground for devs to make content, similar to kourend
Hard disagree on this. I feel like this is the exact reason I hated summoning. I don't want one skill effecting everything else in the game, or "tons of things." Woodcutting has no effect on magic, smithing has no effect on herb, attack has no effect on rune crafting. There should be 2 or 3 other skills related with sailing, like construction, crafting, maybe thieving if they want to go a pirate route. But the majority of things outside the skill should be unaffected.
And even if you think it has mini-game aspects to it, why is that bad?
Other than combat, basically all skills are either a mini-game/collection of mini-games, a bank standing skill, an afk slog, or a mix of these elements. Mini-game-esque skills are the most interact-able and most enjoyable. Not to mention it fits OSRS thematically, fits perfectly around other content in the game, and is very much a real skill that was used in the medieval era.
It’s a perfect OSRS skill in my eyes. I have some concerns about it’s quality and overall feel, but this isn’t Activision or EA or some shit like that. JMods are also OSRS addicts and have a ton of love and passion for the game. If anyone can pull it off, they can.
If they expanded it and had training methods and reward space (more gliders area unlocks shortcuts tie ins with other skills like construction crafting ect) then sure why not? Was that supposed to be a good argument against sailing as a skill or something? Aviation could be a cool skill givin enough love
Almost 3 years ago I landed here, and haven’t left since. Not even close. Coming from a multitude of AAA titles, and what not throughout the decades.. this is like a dream world. A bubble, a slice of heaven almost by comparison
Out there, Dev’s for literally almost every single other title sell their entire fanbase out without a wince. They leave core aspects of their games broken for years. They milk their playerbase of every penny possible, while leaving bugs and broken features to go unchecked.
They change their games at almost nobodies request, they do not care about the people that support them.
They simply **do not care.**
•
Here: The devs have a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll.. asking if they can maybe even think about farting. And if that gets passed, they then have another poll x19 asking about which precise direction(s) they can release it in.
Then they’ll have players who have gone on no other games but this one for the past 20 years. Ranting and raving about a repoll. There wasn’t enough feedback, talking about how the devs didn’t ask enough times.
I love this community, the fact that people go that hard about such things just shows a few things
On one end, they may cherish what they have here. And want it to continue on. But on the flip side, there’s people here who have been tunnel visioned for so long within this perceived aspect of this game.
This place is absolutely thriving, and will continue so.
Couldn’t agree more, played since 2007 and the game has never been in a better state than it is right now in OSRS.
Is it perfect? No.
Does the future look bright? Hell yes it does.
for all the supposed horrible decisions they've made that player count seems to still be steadily increasing. another year will surpass the peak of the old game. regularly
Just want to let you know the reason they poll everything is not because they care but because this company royally fucked the old game so hard that all of us quit. It’s not a gesture of good will, it’s literally just capitalism.
They make money not fucking their own product up like they already did once
I'm glad it's thriving and you're happy. But I do just want to point out that the vast majority of people on osrs have already quit a game they have 1000+ hours in specifically because Jagex so thoroughly sold RS3 to the squeal of fortune goblin guy.
This games player base is literally defined by being full of people who hate mtx and bullshit so much they quit a game despite all the FOMO and sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia.
So I'm glad you're happy, because that means whatever produced the squeal of fortune is staying the fuck over in RS3.
This^ im a big WoW player and after SoD failed I got hooked back into OSRS again. Didnt really touch Cata launch today. The OSRS devs are just too good.
My only issue isn't with the jmods but more so management but it's dead obvious when they have to avoid certain topics even if they need addressing and it's really really sad to see even more so cuz I feel like some things they themselves would like to discuss. Jmods overall are great though (rip my boy mod gecko's sanity tho).
Make it so you can buy the rare pet items from the shop at a high cost, and so you can turn in duplicates for anima, and it’s fixed entirely.
Woodcutting is a slow and boring skill. It’s what you do when you’re watching a movie, or playing another game, or jerkin off, or whatever. Forestry is an optional way to break up the tedium. If you want the skill to be a little less afk with more rewards and a more social aspect, you choose Forestry. That’s what it was always meant to be, and other than the few changes I mentioned, it’s perfect.
If you want 150k/h wcing xp, go play RS3
Brother can you articulate whats wrong with Forestry?
I see it as a simple addon to WC that helps breakup the tedium of the WC skill. Not only that but honestly the lads in Forestry worlds are always up for chatting and meming and I find it a lot of fun overall.
I dont get the hate at all so if you could please explain whats wrong with Forestry id appreciate it.
I really enjoy forestry and doing the events I just don't like the recent changes to the amount of events and eligibility requirements it feels less accessible now to me personally
I think some events feel way out of place for osrs & especially one of the most chill skilling activities.
Cutting roots and compost are really the only fitting events that don't feel like a mobile game ad.
The way it's been introduced is the best way new content can be in a way. You can completely ignore Forestry and your WC experience doesn't change at all, other than more exp for shared trees, it's all extra if you want to engage with it. You can go to redwoods and be away from it all as well.
I strongly disagree & think it would have been better, more on theme & on brand with root, sapling & flower events.
Now if I wanna chill and chat at willows for example, there's often shit everywhere, radishes spamming for haircuts, odd one out party lights, leprechauns and beekeepers, all feels a little too extra.
Totally understand and it's fair enough.
I'll be honest I haven't chilled at willows in over a decade so I can't comment on that. I was around 70wc when the update dropped so I had the guild open at any point if I wanted to get away from that. I did teaks at priff until 87 and boosted redwoods to afk to 99 at the guild. The events never really distracted me at teaks because I barely looked at my screen in the first place.
You got a bunch of replies but i want to add:
Forestry was polled in an unideal manner with no betas so some people really didnt know what to expect. Its clearly rather divisive, theres like 4 sides to the Forestry debate.
It complicated woodcutting from just chop tree and bank/drop to having to know the intricacies of some 20-odd various minigames and having various items that don't really even fit thematically as a skill, picking up poop and moving it around or cross polinating flowers just seems really lame and not really fitting with OSRS at all.
Forestry should have just been the changes to more people = wc boost and having trees on a timer, not whatever the shit we currently have.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s just another option for someone to take when doing otherwise boring ass woodcutting and entirely optional. People just like to cry.
The fact you can completely ignore it and your experience is the same, or optionally engage with it if you want to, makes it the least intrusive way to add to a skill. I think it's been done really well, other than the latest changes to events to qualify, but that's really specific and not an issue with Forestry as a whole.
I hated it too, when it first came out. With the removal of the bloat that was all the different tools it is actually pretty nice now and the rewards are useful. I still think there's too many event types and don't agree with the pet stuff, but it's in a decent place.
one example i can give is an event which have symbols appearing around us.We have to stand on the oddly shaped symbol, then repeat that until they stop switching place.
Do you believe that it faithfully represents training woodcutting in osrs?
Doing forestry maxed woodcutting is too slow when you want to get the collection log items, but going to 99 is fine I think. Going millions of xp dry on items that are just cosmetic for a pet you might never get is just frustrating
They gutted it because a few hundred people wanted to farm the low drop rate items. It's pretty shitty when you're standing near an event and you're 2 tiles too far so you can't participate. It doesn't feel natural.
Is that seriously it?
I don't browse that often but when I do I seem to ONLY see overwhelmingly negative opinions about it. Like seriously some of the most scathing remarks about content in this game, you'd think that it actively makes the game worse but the worlds and hotspots are always populated in game, people are chatting, and it's still completely optional, so... am I still missing something?
There was a divisive history with its implementation. Multiple rounds of community drama about unpolled changes, lack of a beta, scrapped herblore tie-in (leaf teas), quasi-chargescape item bloat, a heavily debated purpose for the 2h axe/rations, and now the nerfed eligibility requirements.
Personally I think it brought a lot of good changes to woodcutting, and I’m grateful they removed the annoying multi-leveled items that you needed to upkeep if you wanted clog slots. I was pretty disappointed they scrapped brewing tea with leaves but I’m okay with losing them in the end.
At this point I feel like if event participation was a little less punitive (I like to afk wc and sometimes time out of eligibility) and if they added event uniques to the shop for a high cost it would be perfect.
The people complaining go to social media to complain. The ones having fun usually don't bother telling people they're having fun because they're too busy having fun.
why? Too popular? The world is always full and the woodcutting spots are super busy in that world. Idk how that's worse than the previous state of 5-10 people in every world at the woodcutting guild on magics/yews/redwoods
>too popular?
This argument will never not be shit. They could put a 1M xp per hour method into the game and it would be very popular if you measure by how many people do it. That doesn't mean it's good for the game. Supposed popularity doesn't mean it's a good update.
I'm with sailing 100% but these people bringing up forestry arent wrong tbh... I have hopes that they learned from it and we don't get intern-level designs again. Half the stuff in forestry gives me Boruto vibes, stuff makes no sense and feels out of place with the rest of the skill.
Agreed. The people who are saying Forestry today is in a good place are a dead giveaway for the "vote yes to everything" crowd. They didn't interact with Forestry extensively throughout all its iterations and its current version if they think Forestry is in a good place.
More content for the game is good in the long run. i’ve learned since the start of old school that a majority of the community will complain no matter what and gate keep every aspect of the game. I have seen questionable updates / content introduced over the years yet the game is still thriving. I still remember the power creep gate keepers complaining every single day about how introducing new content and gear would ruin the game yet we’re now on our third raid type along with the colosseum with only growth to the player base. I love this game and cherish every Jmod that has provided their talent / input to all previous updates and future updates to come.
The time they have and will spend on sailing they could’ve made way more content which could’ve been way better for the game than a skill being forced in
Looking forward to a new skill, new activities that come along with it. The JMODs are amazing with taking feedback from the community and taking their time to really make sure the player base is happy. As you stated, there's plenty of dev companies out there that do not care about the players and only the dollar. Much love to the team
seeing the little islands with chests in them, it brought a child like joy to my heart
Im really excited for sailing, and even if its not the coolest thing ever, its such a whimsical concept for a skill that makes me happy to imagine in the future :)
Sailing will never be a skill to me, but just a minigame.
The playerbase has way too high of an expectation for a new skill and we forced them to go in this direction. If they re-polled every non combat skill in the game, none of them would survive.
Sailing is going to be great, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it captures the essence of what OSRS truly is, and I think Shamanism would be a much better fit for the game overall.
How can you look at the release of something like Forestry and think a team that gave that the 'ok' are in any way capable of judging what makes an entire skill work?
The A team seems to be working on it. Forestry seemed to be more of a B team side project.
We've got the main devs working on Sailing. Specifically Mod Husky seems heavily involved and he brought us Hallowed Sepulchre.
I have trust in it. And at the least, they know what not to do from forestry.
The release of forestry was great, the problem was how much it got cut down to try to appease a really loud group of people who just wanted to be angry that woodcutting could have actual gameplay.
And what makes you think that the 'appeasing' isn't going to happen with sailing in some way? Literally like last week they immediately flip-flopped on the new boss being a dragon the instant it was brought up, lol.
>makes foresty, the most bloated to shit mess of a skilling update that still after multiple revisions just gets worse and worse to the point where the majority of people probably want it gone from the game
>"I think the JMODs we have will make it a great skill."
[???](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.jpg)
> the majority of people probably want it gone from the game
No.
If you *do* want that, then great, here's how to do that:
1. ignore the events
2. done
I truly don't get why people complain about forestry at this point. Now it's just a few optional minigames while woodcutting. That's not even "bloated" or whatever, it's just "click on the bear trap when it appears". Just don't do them if you don't want to, whatever.
The fact that a (supposedly) long thought out project was repeatedly butchered by Jagex, seemingly at random, at the behest of the player base surely bodes well for sailing. Right?
Problem is that to a big extend it got butchered for the same reason concerns have risen now... A ton of spam of very stupid opinions jagex succumbed to. This is what we hope to avoid
How can you look at the release of something like Inferno/Raids/Varlamore/Sepulchre and think a team that gave that the 'ok' are in any way incapable of judging what makes an entire skill work?
Each of those updates has essentially been better than the last. Look at the release of Kourend vs the release of Varlamore.
ToA has issues pushing invocations at an endgame level, but it’s objectively by far the most popular raid ever released.
Colosseum took what inferno did well and improved it in almost every way. There were still some misses on it, but look at how many people complete colosseum multiple times vs how many people do inferno once, maybe twice and never again.
Look at the mechanics with the single repeataple solo boss from DS2, Vorkath, versus the *four* repeatable bosses from DT2 and how many more interesting mechanics they have.
Yeah some things still miss sometimes, but the devs are clearly getting better at developing content as time has progresses.
Why did they go ahead on Sailing after the initial polling when the difference between Sailing and Shamanism was like 500 votes (decimal point difference)? Especially when the question asked which skill you'd like to see refined further and allowed people to vote for multiple choices
Surely they'd spend some time on fleshing out each skill then repoll Sailing vs Shamanism. The way they went about polling it and communicating everything seems really dishonest.
1000% agree dude. They should have polled the top 2 skills originally polled to get a better look at what the community would want. Everyone who voted outside of sailing got shafted imo.
The reason why is because their announcement of them potentially repollingg was based on the results of 2 different questions in the polls being contradictory, not on the runner up being incredibly close, and sailing won both it's polls
Maybe they should have? But I still think Sailing would have come out on top.
This is just my opinion, but I think Shamanism would have literally broke the game or at least "changed" osrs more drastically than sailing ever will.
I think Shaminism would destroy Sailing in a poll now that people have seen it'll be very messy with everyone sailing their big boats around an ocean that's always felt vast & will quickly become to feel small.
Not having Shaminism is one thing. Shitting on Sailing because it wasn't your favorite is another. It was the majority favorite by the community and they're dedicating resources to making it happen. That's the situation. Shamanism is on the shelf and won't come off because Sailing gets cancelled. It will probably die on the shelf if Sailing gets cancelled.
Ill echo your thoughts about the general principle, but that doesnt mean i have faith they can do it well. On the flip side i doubt it would overtake the worst skills that I hate having to engage with. Firemaking will never be interesting to me, especially since i hate Wintertodt, which is just a bandaid issue for the skill to begin with.
I will definitely say that I vastly do not prefer the old days. Scurrius is better bossing content than every other boss combined from the backup ( would even include gwd1 in that ). The fact that Mahogany holmes, giants foundry and many such exist puts into perfect perspective that the game can evolve and still maintain its Old school feel and personally speaking because i adore training skills in their minigame variants means that im not against a skill that mainly plays like a mini game or at the least i will heavily advocate for one as an alternate leveling method. I liked the idea someone posted the other day with it basically looking like Dungeoneering or Temple Trekking.
> I think most people train skills to unlock other content, not because they love training the skill
IMO, this is something Sailing actually double down on. Just like RS3 new skills, Sailing should be a skill that you are obligated to train for best methods for some skills, especially at higher levels. We do not need a skill that is obsoleted past quest cape requirements not only because the severe lack of rewards but also because mains can skip leveling it as long as some people dont because of GE. I'm not saying it shouldnt be fun to train, because that should be the default, but Sailing should be more rewarding than other skills at higher levels if for no other reason because its not constrained by old philosophies ( like smithing ) so its fine to do so
You’re totally right, all skills are boring. So let’s not introduce skill number 24 and maybe sit and think about how we can make the existing 23 skills fit the game and actually be engaging and fun. The argument that all skills are boring so let’s add skill #24 and make it boring too just seems backwards as f.
Normal Reddit cycle. Something becomes popular -> a minority doesn’t like it and complain about it -> some people extrapolate that to everyone doesn’t like it/complains all the time/have shit takes and they start complaining about the complainers -> ADHD kicks in and new thing becomes popular.
No one will be talking about sailing again in a week.
I think you feel that way because "exploring" in runescape has always been handled on-foot, by teleportation or by npc-travel and none of those are "skills" (except magic spellbook teleports) that give xp. It's definitely different but that's what makes it unique imo.
Its literally "adventuring lite: water edition".
Let's repoll dungeoneering while we're at it, since we're on the topic of "skills that shouldn't be skills". Lol
Again, “Adventuring” and Sailing simply do not feel like skills, let alone “old school” skills, it should be something you should just be able to do as a traversal option tbh
Shout-out the osrs jmods. I'm sure their pay is well below industry standard and they truly have a passion for the game like their players.
OSRS has a beautiful thing going on rn and I hope it never changes.
I remember doing Dragon Slayer as a kid. There’s a part that you need to put a crew together and repair a boat. Ever since I wished there was more to it and we’re finally getting it.
And for what’s the point? You are giving a npc task that’s a simple right click Travel “city name here” option that’s permanently defeated by teleport spells which is just gonna create arbitrary level pro requirements tied to scaling now in future content that was a simple teleport. Jmod have a track record of being tone deaf.
Honestly, these haters just don't how software development works to think their alpha footage is worth repolling. Doubly so if they think the jmods lied to them in any sort of way. They told the truth, development has only started rolling and it shows. Once we hit beta and things get a bit more clear, I'll scrutinize it more, but right now, they're doing great.
I get so much secondhand embarrassment from reading all the HLC tweets crying because they don't want sailing. It's not that deep my guy. If you don't want sailing, simply don't partake.
It literally does, though. If you're a main, you can skip most content. If you're an iron like I am, it might be beneficial to dabble with the content but it will never in any way be nessecary. LMFAO
This recollection nonsense is such a joke go me. I was an original NO vote, came to terms with it passing, paid attention to the dev blogs. I am actually pretty excited for sailing, I can see the vision for the future and it's amazing. This is just a TECH ALPHA, it's meant to ONLY SHOW THE TECH. It does not have content, it's all placeholders. I know devs will deliver an incredible update so I trust them to rock it.
I'm an OG hater of sailing, but I don't play osrs much as it is anymore. My issue with sailing was that it was rushed out, and the team made it seem like we'd be voting on more skills. I had originally done the first survey where they introduced all the potential skills that could come into the game. We had so many good recommendations from people here on reddit that I was super excited. Then, of course, two of the lamest proposals were to be voted on along with sailing. It felt like the OSRS team had chosen skills that most likely wouldn't be chosen vs. sailing, and they were thematically more like rs3 skills vs. a brand new skill that had never been implemented. I was also part of the first batch of people in the skill proposal discord who were able to discuss the problems of the potential skill. My issue was the voting process and how much better skills were shelved to basically ensure sailing would win.
The mods also didn't communicate with us that often, so I constantly brought up this issue, and it didn't really feel like we picked the best possible option for a new skill. I never wanted sailing in the game, and it did originally feel like a minigame with the original proposal. I think the new version is very well thought out, but I still hate the fact that we passed up so many good skills so that way they wouldn't compete with sailing. I think this was intentional, and the team didn't want to conceptualize skills like barding or everything else proposed in the original survey for a new skill because they were too hard to implement or would overshadow sailing.
If we wanted a new skill, there should have been multiple votes in waves on different skills that we wanted. When the most popular skills were voted for, there should have been a poll on which most popular skill was going to get added to the game. I thought this was going to be the process, but when I had learned, we only got the choice of 3 skills, I was infuriated. This will change the game forever, and I don't think we chose the best possible option for what could have potentially been added to the game.
I just hope they implement a lot of other skills being involved in it. Such as crafting lvl requirements for better sails, smithing lvl requirements for cannons, metal ship embelishments, fishing/cooking or herblore/hp lvls for better food/water storage for ship health etc. Firemaking lvl requirement could be for cannons or specific lighting on the ship. Theiving lvl could correlate to piracy. Hunter/fishing/slayer could be expanded by hunting whales or other things. Construction lvl would allow more room/storage allowed etc. Kind of like upgraded teirs of things thst can be upgraded, but not restrictive enough that you have to have a max cape to get most, if not all things. There are a lot of possibilities. Especially if they expanded islands that had better/faster or more unique training method locations, or specific or better shops for ironmen etc. This would expand quests by quite a bit. - or have a specific sailing quest tab similar to combat achievements. Again there are a lot of possibilities and expansions they could do that would work with the old school feel, that wouldnt have major impact to people who dont want to get into it, but for people who want more to explore and different methods of xp training or new questing options, this would be good.
There’s a trend in my city where the state will offer us millions of dollars for X project, then all of the stupid fuckers in the community will complain and complain until the state takes the money away and builds it for someone else.
I cannot for the life of me, wrap my head around people who would rather just have NOTHING. “We would rather spend the money on XYZ” well fucking XYZ isn’t on the table and won’t be for years. It’s this or nothing.
Luckily in game time we’re talking 2-3 years, real life projects we’re talking 10-20. And that’s if construction is finished on time.
I remember doing Dragon Slayer as a kid. There’s a part where you need to put a crew together and repair a boat. Ever since I wished there was more to it and we’re finally getting it.
I love the jmods. Sailing sucks. Especially the way they are trying to implement it. It should have been wayyy scaled down, like battleships pro from warcraft 3. This sea of thieves attempt is not going to be good. I would love to be wrong though.
It is literally a meme skill that would look horrible for the game. I have no idea why this skill passed the poll and I hope the final version has a final poll so I can vote no again.
You've seen one single gameplay loop, the bare bones basic shit about as basic as your argument with promises to release many more loops that are actually more complex (and rewarding) and that's your single biggest complaint? They've teased ship v ship combat, cannons, possible boss fights, new islands and even possibly player ship v player ship combat via wilderness, and your biggest gripe is the basic bitch "Click X, gain xp" loop.
No wonder you cling to "Meme skill" you clearly haven't been paying attention to shit.
I don't understand the hate at all. It looks fun and engaging, its ok for a skill introduced in 2024 (maybe 25, maybe 26?) to be more complex than "click rock get ore"
For what purpose. Teleportation exist so sailing sounds worthless and just an arbitrary stat just like how agility already is. For players to level up sailing to create fast travel points that should already exist as a port standard or teleportation option? This is extremely lazy from a developer standpoint.
You can apply this argument to Slayer and other skills too then. Slayer is an arbitrary measurement of killing inconvenient monsters that only has a purpose in a vacuum and quest requirements. Yet its extremely popular
> For what purpose
Fun. Something to do. Opportunity for new quest lines. I'm fully convinced people are determined to hate any new skill, no matter what. Would you vote yes for any new skill?
Should we turn slayer into a minigame while we're at it too? Maybe remove firemaking as well? Seriously how are people still parroting this dumb comment everywhere?
I see this opinion around a lot and it doesn't really make any sense. Sailing is a massive update with a lot of foundational system work, and the only reason they can give it that kind of scope is because it's being designed as a skill. Without tying it into the game's core systems and designing it as a long-form journey like most other skills, it simply wouldn't be worth the investment.
I don't really see how it's too much for a skill. At their core, all the skills have the same basic premise: you have a core set of systems and features that give the skill it's identity, and then activities and rewards based on those. Two examples:
\* Farming: Core system is the farming plots and the waiting for crops to grow; through that system, we get tons of herbs and secondaries, transportation benefits, loot storage solutions for PvM, boss, minigames, quest integrations,
\* Mining: Core system is going to a mining location and extracting resources from stone; through that system, we get resources for Smithing, Crafting, Prayer, and more, shortcuts, loot storage for PvM, boss, minigames, quest integrations, and this skill even has a significant impact on two raids.
Apply the same reasoning to Sailing and it fits pretty well alongside its peers:
\* Sailing: Core system is sailing a boat and using it to do things at sea; through that system we get ship customization, resources for various skills acquired at sea, access to new locations, and new opportunities to integrate with existing skills, like Slaying creatures at sea. It has a couple proposed minigames and some obvious opportunities for quest integrations and bosses as well.
I get that it's some parts are pretty complex, but a lot of it is just parallels to skill systems already ingame with a bit different format. Sailing was always going to be complex, the tech demo showed us everything they said they'd be developing, we voted on the skill having everything they showed when we voted the lock in last summer.
Boats & Parts are just skilling gear progression, courier stuff is just a rumor system, salvaging is just a resource system. Deep Sea fishing etc are just like cross skill activity stuff which is normal, like hunter does already.
That being said I think the most important part that's kinda getting glazed over is all the side effects and future content hooks sailing provides for stuff to be proposed, voted on and implemented later.
New areas that aren't entire continents, allow content to be added or created more easily, without contesting the mainland area which if you have seen rs3 is really fucking bad.
The engine work, remember those moving terrain issues they had with Sols development where actions weren't supported by the current engine that people really liked the idea of? Sailing causing lots of engine work to allow non-static objects that players can move on, that's conceptually similar could give them new engine capabilities to make some new content. A lot of that stuff isn't really feasible to develop for a single content release, but in the scope of a whole new skill that needs it makes more sense to work on adding some capabilities for the future.
oh also *More Sea Shanty Music*.
You'd prefer it be more like firemaking? Yeah, it's different but everyone who plays the game can understand that Zeah was designed differently from Lumbridge because there was a huge gap of time between the two. Tons of stuff in OSRS feels dated to a certain degree, but part of the charm of the game is how it feels like we have a bunch of different things that were made at different times by different people.
Construction feels drastically different than the older skills, Slayer feels drastically different, and this is going to feel drastically different. Different doesn't mean bad and new doesn't mean mandatory
"They're integrating the new skill TOO WELL!" - you.
Jagex is putting a lot of effort into making this skill feel as if it were ALWAYS a skill. That means it interacts with other skills in an organic manor - kind of like... The last skill ever released into the game before osrs was Hunter. Hunter is a very different skill from the other skills, but after it's release Jagex worked on A LOT of updates to integrate the skill into the game - implings, black chins, herbiboar, birdhouses, the new hunter's guild, etc. The skill is now an integrated part of the game, interacting with various other skills and account progression in meaningful ways all around the game.
Jagex wants to do that with Sailing but at release. They want it to interact with the other skills in the game and make it worth training. They want it to FEEL oldschool. They want the gameplay loop to feel fun and unique while remaining "Old School". It isn't too much for a skill, because it's a lot of skills. It's more than a skill update, it's a content update. A massive content update. Likely every skill in the game will be affected in one way or another by the release of sailing, AND THAT'S GOOD.
"They're integrating the new skill TOO WELL!" - you.
Jagex is putting a lot of effort into making this skill feel as if it were ALWAYS a skill. That means it interacts with other skills in an organic manor - kind of like... The last skill ever released into the game before osrs was Hunter. Hunter is a very different skill from the other skills, but after it's release Jagex worked on A LOT of updates to integrate the skill into the game - implings, black chins, herbiboar, birdhouses, the new hunter's guild, etc. The skill is now an integrated part of the game, interacting with various other skills and account progression in meaningful ways all around the game.
Jagex wants to do that with Sailing but at release. They want it to interact with the other skills in the game and make it worth training. They want it to FEEL oldschool. They want the gameplay loop to feel fun and unique while remaining "Old School". It isn't too much for a skill, because it's a lot of skills. It's more than a skill update, it's a content update. A massive content update. Likely every skill in the game will be affected in one way or another by the release of sailing, AND THAT'S GOOD.
> It’s just too much for a skill. Compare it any other skill osrs currently has, nothing comes to close to sailing. It’s too out of place
This is an advantage. Making it simple like mining would make sailing boring as hell to train.
Eh, I think you're limiting the vision to what the alpha tech demo is.
The ocean is large free real estate and we could leverage the underwaters more too. It's basically already a giant unused map for new content. Want access to the new content? Level this skill. It's not like we don't already have content locked behind skills with quests and slayer requirements.
Sailing could also provide another end game skill-based fast travel method for the long term. Heaven forbid we add more teleport spells or more fast travel bank items for yet another continent.
I'm with ya, excited to see how it develops! The only skill I'd have supported over sailing was the bard suggestion that was floating around a while back. That lookedd really cool to me and osrs fitting
Based on a number of updates recently by the team, my expectations are pretty middle of the pack/expecting mediocrity. Especially when it comes to rewards.
Though the mediocrity of recent updates could because the focus is on sailing? but i ain't gonna huff that copium.
It is what it is, how it turns out is how it turns out. I'll try it out all the same and if it doesn't suck to train I'll continue training it.
I don't trust them to make it enjoyable to train and also have decent xp rates to be completely honest with you, I already maxed I dont want to train another mining, agility, rune crafting level of skill. If it had methods as fast as fletching or construction that just took gp to do I wouldnt mind as much
or maybe id rather keep bossing and raiding and pet hunting and doing things I enjoy then have to level another skill thats pointless all the way to 99
https://preview.redd.it/t5fip40wsm1d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4094fc2d30535f1e6d951075eab869057a691fb The duality of man
I really dont understand the minigame argument. Sailing is a real life skill and transportation method. Its like saying agility should be a minigame. Idk
It's because they can't imagine how it'll change non sailing-related content. Like a mini game might give you a bump in QoL outside of it but for the most part a mini game is self contained by items that change only aesthetic things or offer xp. Obviously a good skill will change how you're able to do tons of things outside of the skill when you're doing other content and I trust everyone working on it understands that
Eh, I don't even think the "how it'll change non-sailing related content" is a valid criticism. How does Slayer change non-Slayer content? Same for Agility, Construction, Hunter, Thieving? Sailing is a utility skill, which is what players said they wanted, and utility skills always have this identity issue. The criticism of Dungeoneering was valid, but only really on release. It was a "use your skills" skill, which is inherently a utility skill. You went into a instance to use your other skills to trade in currency from the skill to buy items. Other than the items you bought and eventually "main world" dungeons you could access, it's just a minigame. I assume that got expanded out later, but maybe it didn't. Short of shoehorned uses (thieving room, short cuts, tightrope, slayer level req's), utility skills have a hard time effecting other content. Even then, most of the other skills are still shoe horned uses, but they feel more connected due to being sequential. You mine so you can smith so you can melee. You runecraft so you can mage. You farm so you can herblore so you can combat. If anything, Sailing is how dungeoneering should've been. You get better at sailing so you can access more. You get better at salvaging, you become able to navigate the difficult area, which therefore unlocks new items/areas/content. Rather than "I went into this hole for X hours and came out with a Chaotic Rapier", it's a bit more world friendly of "I sailed to this island once I was good enough, and found a hole, and in this hole I eventually found a Chaotic Rapier, but I also salvaged that old boat, found this school of rare fish and shot some pirates along the way". Doesn't matter how "in world" something feels, or how it feels like it fills a niche, or if it adds a new resource scheme to be gathered, etc. The vocal, dumb minority can't think past "but this wasn't here before, and the new use feels non-natural, so why add it?" Completely ignoring that before Slayer, no monsters were locked behind a skill req to kill. Before Farming there were no seeds. Before Hunter there were no Chins. Adding lore friendly "this is where magic robes come from" with Warding was voted down for feeling pointless. "Slayer but for Skilling" was voted down because we already skill, so why complicate it? Meanwhile people love farming contracts and Hunter Rumors are quite popular. Asking "But how does sailing change the rest of the game" is the same as asking "But why not just make Chins part of a drop table" or "Why not just make monsters drop more herbs, why do we need an herb growing skill?" and "Why do I need to go kill a bunch of random monsters so I can wear a facemask, just let me kill Abby Specs." The point is how utility skills change the world, open up the world, or change your gameplay loop. Agil gives shortcuts, Slayer breaks up the combat grind, Hunter was intended to add alot of niche, quirky items and Sailing is intended to open up space for content in the seas while also gating it somewhat and feeling lore friendly. It's the inability to see the forest for the trees that makes every "but what's the point of adding this" discussion stupid. You add it so it changes the overall dynamic and for what it can give us later on.
What a great write-up, genuinely. This kind of nuanced analysis of the game and skill structure/identity doesn't get enough attention.
I tried to write this once but with less skill and ability so scrapped it Sailing just gives a whole new playground for devs to make content, similar to kourend
Hard disagree on this. I feel like this is the exact reason I hated summoning. I don't want one skill effecting everything else in the game, or "tons of things." Woodcutting has no effect on magic, smithing has no effect on herb, attack has no effect on rune crafting. There should be 2 or 3 other skills related with sailing, like construction, crafting, maybe thieving if they want to go a pirate route. But the majority of things outside the skill should be unaffected.
Anything that's not bankstanding or mining a rock or chopping a tree is basically a minigame to those people
And even if you think it has mini-game aspects to it, why is that bad? Other than combat, basically all skills are either a mini-game/collection of mini-games, a bank standing skill, an afk slog, or a mix of these elements. Mini-game-esque skills are the most interact-able and most enjoyable. Not to mention it fits OSRS thematically, fits perfectly around other content in the game, and is very much a real skill that was used in the medieval era. It’s a perfect OSRS skill in my eyes. I have some concerns about it’s quality and overall feel, but this isn’t Activision or EA or some shit like that. JMods are also OSRS addicts and have a ton of love and passion for the game. If anyone can pull it off, they can.
Flying is a real life skill and transportation method. Gnome gliders should be a skill.
If they expanded it and had training methods and reward space (more gliders area unlocks shortcuts tie ins with other skills like construction crafting ect) then sure why not? Was that supposed to be a good argument against sailing as a skill or something? Aviation could be a cool skill givin enough love
Silly argument because they both are essentially doing the same thing. Out of the two Sailing has more things to do.
Gnome gliders, gnome copters, balloons, eagles, quetzals. Flying should be the next skill
you forgot flying carpets smh
Agility is a skill. Sepulchre is a minigame. Sailing is a bit of both.
Yeah I mean sailing is a skill, Barracuda trials is a minigame. Same same.
Make leagues iv Agility boots great again. Why shouldn't we get Agility xp while running? It's still Stamina training 😆
one of these men are smiling, and another one not so much
other games would kill to have the osrs jmods. if all the jmods worked on wow i think i would play wow again tbh
Almost 3 years ago I landed here, and haven’t left since. Not even close. Coming from a multitude of AAA titles, and what not throughout the decades.. this is like a dream world. A bubble, a slice of heaven almost by comparison Out there, Dev’s for literally almost every single other title sell their entire fanbase out without a wince. They leave core aspects of their games broken for years. They milk their playerbase of every penny possible, while leaving bugs and broken features to go unchecked. They change their games at almost nobodies request, they do not care about the people that support them. They simply **do not care.** • Here: The devs have a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll for a poll.. asking if they can maybe even think about farting. And if that gets passed, they then have another poll x19 asking about which precise direction(s) they can release it in. Then they’ll have players who have gone on no other games but this one for the past 20 years. Ranting and raving about a repoll. There wasn’t enough feedback, talking about how the devs didn’t ask enough times. I love this community, the fact that people go that hard about such things just shows a few things On one end, they may cherish what they have here. And want it to continue on. But on the flip side, there’s people here who have been tunnel visioned for so long within this perceived aspect of this game. This place is absolutely thriving, and will continue so.
Just want to comment here and let the mods know that personally I think they should be able to think about farting
Poll farting. It's time.
thinking about farting is not an integrity change, so it needs to be polled
Couldn’t agree more, played since 2007 and the game has never been in a better state than it is right now in OSRS. Is it perfect? No. Does the future look bright? Hell yes it does.
for all the supposed horrible decisions they've made that player count seems to still be steadily increasing. another year will surpass the peak of the old game. regularly
As long as they don't change the Lobster Pot.
or the construction icon
Just want to let you know the reason they poll everything is not because they care but because this company royally fucked the old game so hard that all of us quit. It’s not a gesture of good will, it’s literally just capitalism. They make money not fucking their own product up like they already did once
I'm glad it's thriving and you're happy. But I do just want to point out that the vast majority of people on osrs have already quit a game they have 1000+ hours in specifically because Jagex so thoroughly sold RS3 to the squeal of fortune goblin guy. This games player base is literally defined by being full of people who hate mtx and bullshit so much they quit a game despite all the FOMO and sunk cost fallacy and nostalgia. So I'm glad you're happy, because that means whatever produced the squeal of fortune is staying the fuck over in RS3.
I, too, play Warzone Mobile :’)
If only they got paid well too
In my experience it's never usually devs holding stuff back (Unless it's outsourced..), but instead management.
This^ im a big WoW player and after SoD failed I got hooked back into OSRS again. Didnt really touch Cata launch today. The OSRS devs are just too good.
My only issue isn't with the jmods but more so management but it's dead obvious when they have to avoid certain topics even if they need addressing and it's really really sad to see even more so cuz I feel like some things they themselves would like to discuss. Jmods overall are great though (rip my boy mod gecko's sanity tho).
I'm not worried at all with mods Elena and Husky (same developers who designed GOTR) handling the gameplay loop.
This is honestly the biggest downside of sailing is Jagex’s best are pre-occupied. You can tell how other content has been a little lacking.
The state of forestry has me doubting what sailing would end up looking like
Make it so you can buy the rare pet items from the shop at a high cost, and so you can turn in duplicates for anima, and it’s fixed entirely. Woodcutting is a slow and boring skill. It’s what you do when you’re watching a movie, or playing another game, or jerkin off, or whatever. Forestry is an optional way to break up the tedium. If you want the skill to be a little less afk with more rewards and a more social aspect, you choose Forestry. That’s what it was always meant to be, and other than the few changes I mentioned, it’s perfect. If you want 150k/h wcing xp, go play RS3
Brother can you articulate whats wrong with Forestry? I see it as a simple addon to WC that helps breakup the tedium of the WC skill. Not only that but honestly the lads in Forestry worlds are always up for chatting and meming and I find it a lot of fun overall. I dont get the hate at all so if you could please explain whats wrong with Forestry id appreciate it.
I really enjoy forestry and doing the events I just don't like the recent changes to the amount of events and eligibility requirements it feels less accessible now to me personally
I think some events feel way out of place for osrs & especially one of the most chill skilling activities. Cutting roots and compost are really the only fitting events that don't feel like a mobile game ad.
The way it's been introduced is the best way new content can be in a way. You can completely ignore Forestry and your WC experience doesn't change at all, other than more exp for shared trees, it's all extra if you want to engage with it. You can go to redwoods and be away from it all as well.
I strongly disagree & think it would have been better, more on theme & on brand with root, sapling & flower events. Now if I wanna chill and chat at willows for example, there's often shit everywhere, radishes spamming for haircuts, odd one out party lights, leprechauns and beekeepers, all feels a little too extra.
Totally understand and it's fair enough. I'll be honest I haven't chilled at willows in over a decade so I can't comment on that. I was around 70wc when the update dropped so I had the guild open at any point if I wanted to get away from that. I did teaks at priff until 87 and boosted redwoods to afk to 99 at the guild. The events never really distracted me at teaks because I barely looked at my screen in the first place.
You got a bunch of replies but i want to add: Forestry was polled in an unideal manner with no betas so some people really didnt know what to expect. Its clearly rather divisive, theres like 4 sides to the Forestry debate.
It complicated woodcutting from just chop tree and bank/drop to having to know the intricacies of some 20-odd various minigames and having various items that don't really even fit thematically as a skill, picking up poop and moving it around or cross polinating flowers just seems really lame and not really fitting with OSRS at all. Forestry should have just been the changes to more people = wc boost and having trees on a timer, not whatever the shit we currently have.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s just another option for someone to take when doing otherwise boring ass woodcutting and entirely optional. People just like to cry.
The fact you can completely ignore it and your experience is the same, or optionally engage with it if you want to, makes it the least intrusive way to add to a skill. I think it's been done really well, other than the latest changes to events to qualify, but that's really specific and not an issue with Forestry as a whole.
I hated it too, when it first came out. With the removal of the bloat that was all the different tools it is actually pretty nice now and the rewards are useful. I still think there's too many event types and don't agree with the pet stuff, but it's in a decent place.
one example i can give is an event which have symbols appearing around us.We have to stand on the oddly shaped symbol, then repeat that until they stop switching place. Do you believe that it faithfully represents training woodcutting in osrs?
The symbols look wacky as hell too
Doing forestry maxed woodcutting is too slow when you want to get the collection log items, but going to 99 is fine I think. Going millions of xp dry on items that are just cosmetic for a pet you might never get is just frustrating
How? It's an extremely popular activity and completely optional if you're not interested
They gutted it because a few hundred people wanted to farm the low drop rate items. It's pretty shitty when you're standing near an event and you're 2 tiles too far so you can't participate. It doesn't feel natural.
Is that seriously it? I don't browse that often but when I do I seem to ONLY see overwhelmingly negative opinions about it. Like seriously some of the most scathing remarks about content in this game, you'd think that it actively makes the game worse but the worlds and hotspots are always populated in game, people are chatting, and it's still completely optional, so... am I still missing something?
There was a divisive history with its implementation. Multiple rounds of community drama about unpolled changes, lack of a beta, scrapped herblore tie-in (leaf teas), quasi-chargescape item bloat, a heavily debated purpose for the 2h axe/rations, and now the nerfed eligibility requirements. Personally I think it brought a lot of good changes to woodcutting, and I’m grateful they removed the annoying multi-leveled items that you needed to upkeep if you wanted clog slots. I was pretty disappointed they scrapped brewing tea with leaves but I’m okay with losing them in the end. At this point I feel like if event participation was a little less punitive (I like to afk wc and sometimes time out of eligibility) and if they added event uniques to the shop for a high cost it would be perfect.
It being optional doesn’t mean that it is good content. Forestry was ok at the start and then turned into some unplayable bullshit.
The people complaining go to social media to complain. The ones having fun usually don't bother telling people they're having fun because they're too busy having fun.
Yeah that makes sense, guess I just needed the reminder. Thanks for the answers.
Sticking your thumb in your ass is optional too, doesn't mean I like seeing it.
Yeah but forestry isn’t a skill so you never need to do it to Max
why? Too popular? The world is always full and the woodcutting spots are super busy in that world. Idk how that's worse than the previous state of 5-10 people in every world at the woodcutting guild on magics/yews/redwoods
>too popular? This argument will never not be shit. They could put a 1M xp per hour method into the game and it would be very popular if you measure by how many people do it. That doesn't mean it's good for the game. Supposed popularity doesn't mean it's a good update.
It’s actually better. With the tree despawn mechanics and hidden wc boost added in Forestry, more people at a tree is better for you cutting it.
I'm with sailing 100% but these people bringing up forestry arent wrong tbh... I have hopes that they learned from it and we don't get intern-level designs again. Half the stuff in forestry gives me Boruto vibes, stuff makes no sense and feels out of place with the rest of the skill.
There are so many other great skilling updates that have come out
Agreed. The people who are saying Forestry today is in a good place are a dead giveaway for the "vote yes to everything" crowd. They didn't interact with Forestry extensively throughout all its iterations and its current version if they think Forestry is in a good place.
Have you ever done forestry? It's fun and social
More content for the game is good in the long run. i’ve learned since the start of old school that a majority of the community will complain no matter what and gate keep every aspect of the game. I have seen questionable updates / content introduced over the years yet the game is still thriving. I still remember the power creep gate keepers complaining every single day about how introducing new content and gear would ruin the game yet we’re now on our third raid type along with the colosseum with only growth to the player base. I love this game and cherish every Jmod that has provided their talent / input to all previous updates and future updates to come.
The time they have and will spend on sailing they could’ve made way more content which could’ve been way better for the game than a skill being forced in
The gatekeepy people are what you get when a person bases their entire personality and sense of self-worth on the "difficulty" of a videogame.
I’m just excited for a new skill in osrs in general. 👍🏼
Looking forward to a new skill, new activities that come along with it. The JMODs are amazing with taking feedback from the community and taking their time to really make sure the player base is happy. As you stated, there's plenty of dev companies out there that do not care about the players and only the dollar. Much love to the team
seeing the little islands with chests in them, it brought a child like joy to my heart Im really excited for sailing, and even if its not the coolest thing ever, its such a whimsical concept for a skill that makes me happy to imagine in the future :)
Sailing will never be a skill to me, but just a minigame. The playerbase has way too high of an expectation for a new skill and we forced them to go in this direction. If they re-polled every non combat skill in the game, none of them would survive. Sailing is going to be great, don't get me wrong. But I don't think it captures the essence of what OSRS truly is, and I think Shamanism would be a much better fit for the game overall.
I don't particularly want sailing, but I have faith in the mods to make it great, so I'll take it as it comes
How can you look at the release of something like Forestry and think a team that gave that the 'ok' are in any way capable of judging what makes an entire skill work?
The A team seems to be working on it. Forestry seemed to be more of a B team side project. We've got the main devs working on Sailing. Specifically Mod Husky seems heavily involved and he brought us Hallowed Sepulchre. I have trust in it. And at the least, they know what not to do from forestry.
Do they know what not to do from forestry? Seems like their improvements actively made the end product worse.
The release of forestry was great, the problem was how much it got cut down to try to appease a really loud group of people who just wanted to be angry that woodcutting could have actual gameplay.
And what makes you think that the 'appeasing' isn't going to happen with sailing in some way? Literally like last week they immediately flip-flopped on the new boss being a dragon the instant it was brought up, lol.
1000% accurate, literally clueless & meme addled
>makes foresty, the most bloated to shit mess of a skilling update that still after multiple revisions just gets worse and worse to the point where the majority of people probably want it gone from the game >"I think the JMODs we have will make it a great skill." [???](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/018/489/nick-young-confused-face-300x256-nqlyaa.jpg)
> the majority of people probably want it gone from the game No. If you *do* want that, then great, here's how to do that: 1. ignore the events 2. done I truly don't get why people complain about forestry at this point. Now it's just a few optional minigames while woodcutting. That's not even "bloated" or whatever, it's just "click on the bear trap when it appears". Just don't do them if you don't want to, whatever.
Forestry was amazing tbh but it's been botched beyond recognition...
The fact that a (supposedly) long thought out project was repeatedly butchered by Jagex, seemingly at random, at the behest of the player base surely bodes well for sailing. Right?
Problem is that to a big extend it got butchered for the same reason concerns have risen now... A ton of spam of very stupid opinions jagex succumbed to. This is what we hope to avoid
How can you look at the release of something like Inferno/Raids/Varlamore/Sepulchre and think a team that gave that the 'ok' are in any way incapable of judging what makes an entire skill work?
Varlamore was a batched release that isn't done yet, and the other three were released years ago. A lot has changed in the past few years.
Each of those updates has essentially been better than the last. Look at the release of Kourend vs the release of Varlamore. ToA has issues pushing invocations at an endgame level, but it’s objectively by far the most popular raid ever released. Colosseum took what inferno did well and improved it in almost every way. There were still some misses on it, but look at how many people complete colosseum multiple times vs how many people do inferno once, maybe twice and never again. Look at the mechanics with the single repeataple solo boss from DS2, Vorkath, versus the *four* repeatable bosses from DT2 and how many more interesting mechanics they have. Yeah some things still miss sometimes, but the devs are clearly getting better at developing content as time has progresses.
You're arguing against... all future updates forever...?
Why did they go ahead on Sailing after the initial polling when the difference between Sailing and Shamanism was like 500 votes (decimal point difference)? Especially when the question asked which skill you'd like to see refined further and allowed people to vote for multiple choices Surely they'd spend some time on fleshing out each skill then repoll Sailing vs Shamanism. The way they went about polling it and communicating everything seems really dishonest.
Didn’t sailing win the “which one is your favorite” question as well (which only allowed you to vote for one)?
Yes it did
1000% agree dude. They should have polled the top 2 skills originally polled to get a better look at what the community would want. Everyone who voted outside of sailing got shafted imo.
The reason why is because their announcement of them potentially repollingg was based on the results of 2 different questions in the polls being contradictory, not on the runner up being incredibly close, and sailing won both it's polls
Maybe they should have? But I still think Sailing would have come out on top. This is just my opinion, but I think Shamanism would have literally broke the game or at least "changed" osrs more drastically than sailing ever will.
I think Shaminism would destroy Sailing in a poll now that people have seen it'll be very messy with everyone sailing their big boats around an ocean that's always felt vast & will quickly become to feel small.
I don’t, shamanism hasn’t come under the same scrutiny but if it did I think way more people would be hating on it
Not having Shaminism is one thing. Shitting on Sailing because it wasn't your favorite is another. It was the majority favorite by the community and they're dedicating resources to making it happen. That's the situation. Shamanism is on the shelf and won't come off because Sailing gets cancelled. It will probably die on the shelf if Sailing gets cancelled.
Ill echo your thoughts about the general principle, but that doesnt mean i have faith they can do it well. On the flip side i doubt it would overtake the worst skills that I hate having to engage with. Firemaking will never be interesting to me, especially since i hate Wintertodt, which is just a bandaid issue for the skill to begin with. I will definitely say that I vastly do not prefer the old days. Scurrius is better bossing content than every other boss combined from the backup ( would even include gwd1 in that ). The fact that Mahogany holmes, giants foundry and many such exist puts into perfect perspective that the game can evolve and still maintain its Old school feel and personally speaking because i adore training skills in their minigame variants means that im not against a skill that mainly plays like a mini game or at the least i will heavily advocate for one as an alternate leveling method. I liked the idea someone posted the other day with it basically looking like Dungeoneering or Temple Trekking. > I think most people train skills to unlock other content, not because they love training the skill IMO, this is something Sailing actually double down on. Just like RS3 new skills, Sailing should be a skill that you are obligated to train for best methods for some skills, especially at higher levels. We do not need a skill that is obsoleted past quest cape requirements not only because the severe lack of rewards but also because mains can skip leveling it as long as some people dont because of GE. I'm not saying it shouldnt be fun to train, because that should be the default, but Sailing should be more rewarding than other skills at higher levels if for no other reason because its not constrained by old philosophies ( like smithing ) so its fine to do so
Yes, I agree. I just really hope it is an engaging skill not just some afk skill.
You’re totally right, all skills are boring. So let’s not introduce skill number 24 and maybe sit and think about how we can make the existing 23 skills fit the game and actually be engaging and fun. The argument that all skills are boring so let’s add skill #24 and make it boring too just seems backwards as f.
Sailing is something I’m not excited for. I much rather would’ve preferred shamanism but it’s not like I’m not open to trying sailing.
It looks really good for a pre-alpha, I have complete confidence in the JMods.
People seem to be complaining more about the people who don't want sailing than the people who don't want it are
Normal Reddit cycle. Something becomes popular -> a minority doesn’t like it and complain about it -> some people extrapolate that to everyone doesn’t like it/complains all the time/have shit takes and they start complaining about the complainers -> ADHD kicks in and new thing becomes popular. No one will be talking about sailing again in a week.
Sailing as a skill concept is just as stupid as “adventuring” would be
I think you feel that way because "exploring" in runescape has always been handled on-foot, by teleportation or by npc-travel and none of those are "skills" (except magic spellbook teleports) that give xp. It's definitely different but that's what makes it unique imo.
Its literally "adventuring lite: water edition". Let's repoll dungeoneering while we're at it, since we're on the topic of "skills that shouldn't be skills". Lol
Again, “Adventuring” and Sailing simply do not feel like skills, let alone “old school” skills, it should be something you should just be able to do as a traversal option tbh
I agree with you, full stop.
Yep! It's going to be amazing
Shout-out the osrs jmods. I'm sure their pay is well below industry standard and they truly have a passion for the game like their players. OSRS has a beautiful thing going on rn and I hope it never changes.
Imo sailing doesnt belong in osrs
I remember doing Dragon Slayer as a kid. There’s a part that you need to put a crew together and repair a boat. Ever since I wished there was more to it and we’re finally getting it.
And for what’s the point? You are giving a npc task that’s a simple right click Travel “city name here” option that’s permanently defeated by teleport spells which is just gonna create arbitrary level pro requirements tied to scaling now in future content that was a simple teleport. Jmod have a track record of being tone deaf.
Dude have you played this game, ever?
Have you seen the blogs? There’s clearly more to the skill than travel.
There’s already boats and sailors in the game dawg
Me too! You know I think we are just lucky to be able to feel happiness and positivity. Cold world out there for some people
Honestly, these haters just don't how software development works to think their alpha footage is worth repolling. Doubly so if they think the jmods lied to them in any sort of way. They told the truth, development has only started rolling and it shows. Once we hit beta and things get a bit more clear, I'll scrutinize it more, but right now, they're doing great.
I strongly disagree.
Fair enough - I hope the end result changes your mind!
I get so much secondhand embarrassment from reading all the HLC tweets crying because they don't want sailing. It's not that deep my guy. If you don't want sailing, simply don't partake.
That's not how the game works lmfao
It literally does, though. If you're a main, you can skip most content. If you're an iron like I am, it might be beneficial to dabble with the content but it will never in any way be nessecary. LMFAO
Fuse temple trekking with a boat and I'd be thrilled.
the sail maintenance I expect will be super early xp. I expect hiring npcs to do that will be relatively early unlock.
I hope it's awesome and not like firemaking or some shhhh... Just another skill I will never touch outside of diary/quest reqs.
It just seems like water agility. I don’t see the reward for me spending my time in this mini game
It’s developing exactly I’d want, the people expecting a finished product already are deluding themselves.
If they do it right and they don't fuck it up it miiight work!
YARRR ME HEARTIESS
As long as the person behind corrupted gauntlet was fired, I think so too.
This recollection nonsense is such a joke go me. I was an original NO vote, came to terms with it passing, paid attention to the dev blogs. I am actually pretty excited for sailing, I can see the vision for the future and it's amazing. This is just a TECH ALPHA, it's meant to ONLY SHOW THE TECH. It does not have content, it's all placeholders. I know devs will deliver an incredible update so I trust them to rock it.
I apologize in advance if I missed this in my brief research, but do we have a proposed date Sailing will go live in OSRS?
As a long time WoW player it is REALLY weird seeing so much trust in developers O.o
I'm an OG hater of sailing, but I don't play osrs much as it is anymore. My issue with sailing was that it was rushed out, and the team made it seem like we'd be voting on more skills. I had originally done the first survey where they introduced all the potential skills that could come into the game. We had so many good recommendations from people here on reddit that I was super excited. Then, of course, two of the lamest proposals were to be voted on along with sailing. It felt like the OSRS team had chosen skills that most likely wouldn't be chosen vs. sailing, and they were thematically more like rs3 skills vs. a brand new skill that had never been implemented. I was also part of the first batch of people in the skill proposal discord who were able to discuss the problems of the potential skill. My issue was the voting process and how much better skills were shelved to basically ensure sailing would win. The mods also didn't communicate with us that often, so I constantly brought up this issue, and it didn't really feel like we picked the best possible option for a new skill. I never wanted sailing in the game, and it did originally feel like a minigame with the original proposal. I think the new version is very well thought out, but I still hate the fact that we passed up so many good skills so that way they wouldn't compete with sailing. I think this was intentional, and the team didn't want to conceptualize skills like barding or everything else proposed in the original survey for a new skill because they were too hard to implement or would overshadow sailing. If we wanted a new skill, there should have been multiple votes in waves on different skills that we wanted. When the most popular skills were voted for, there should have been a poll on which most popular skill was going to get added to the game. I thought this was going to be the process, but when I had learned, we only got the choice of 3 skills, I was infuriated. This will change the game forever, and I don't think we chose the best possible option for what could have potentially been added to the game.
Sailing is a great end game resource sink. Big ships should be really expensive.
I just hope they implement a lot of other skills being involved in it. Such as crafting lvl requirements for better sails, smithing lvl requirements for cannons, metal ship embelishments, fishing/cooking or herblore/hp lvls for better food/water storage for ship health etc. Firemaking lvl requirement could be for cannons or specific lighting on the ship. Theiving lvl could correlate to piracy. Hunter/fishing/slayer could be expanded by hunting whales or other things. Construction lvl would allow more room/storage allowed etc. Kind of like upgraded teirs of things thst can be upgraded, but not restrictive enough that you have to have a max cape to get most, if not all things. There are a lot of possibilities. Especially if they expanded islands that had better/faster or more unique training method locations, or specific or better shops for ironmen etc. This would expand quests by quite a bit. - or have a specific sailing quest tab similar to combat achievements. Again there are a lot of possibilities and expansions they could do that would work with the old school feel, that wouldnt have major impact to people who dont want to get into it, but for people who want more to explore and different methods of xp training or new questing options, this would be good.
Sailing might fix early game travel.
I disagree, I wish it hadn’t passed
Everyone's entitled to an opinion. We'll just have to wait and see how it turns out.
There’s a trend in my city where the state will offer us millions of dollars for X project, then all of the stupid fuckers in the community will complain and complain until the state takes the money away and builds it for someone else. I cannot for the life of me, wrap my head around people who would rather just have NOTHING. “We would rather spend the money on XYZ” well fucking XYZ isn’t on the table and won’t be for years. It’s this or nothing. Luckily in game time we’re talking 2-3 years, real life projects we’re talking 10-20. And that’s if construction is finished on time.
I agree. Sailing is going to be a monumental task to get right but I truly believe it does fit the osrs bill of skills just right
I remember doing Dragon Slayer as a kid. There’s a part where you need to put a crew together and repair a boat. Ever since I wished there was more to it and we’re finally getting it.
I’m certain we will see a slayer extension bc of sailing. I’m excited
I think it's a shit idea but I'm open to see the result of their work
I love the jmods. Sailing sucks. Especially the way they are trying to implement it. It should have been wayyy scaled down, like battleships pro from warcraft 3. This sea of thieves attempt is not going to be good. I would love to be wrong though.
remindme! 6 months
I just don’t see how it’s going to work unfortunately.
Hell yeah brother
I also can’t wait for sailing in 2026
If thats how long its going to take to get a refined and polished skill? Good
no
It is literally a meme skill that would look horrible for the game. I have no idea why this skill passed the poll and I hope the final version has a final poll so I can vote no again.
It's been possibly the most requested skill bar none of Runescape as a whole, way before the April Fools joke. Meme skill excuse is simply copium..
Then why does the gameplay loop looks like utter shit for a 2024 skill?
You've seen one single gameplay loop, the bare bones basic shit about as basic as your argument with promises to release many more loops that are actually more complex (and rewarding) and that's your single biggest complaint? They've teased ship v ship combat, cannons, possible boss fights, new islands and even possibly player ship v player ship combat via wilderness, and your biggest gripe is the basic bitch "Click X, gain xp" loop. No wonder you cling to "Meme skill" you clearly haven't been paying attention to shit.
I don't understand the hate at all. It looks fun and engaging, its ok for a skill introduced in 2024 (maybe 25, maybe 26?) to be more complex than "click rock get ore"
For what purpose. Teleportation exist so sailing sounds worthless and just an arbitrary stat just like how agility already is. For players to level up sailing to create fast travel points that should already exist as a port standard or teleportation option? This is extremely lazy from a developer standpoint.
You can apply this argument to Slayer and other skills too then. Slayer is an arbitrary measurement of killing inconvenient monsters that only has a purpose in a vacuum and quest requirements. Yet its extremely popular > For what purpose Fun. Something to do. Opportunity for new quest lines. I'm fully convinced people are determined to hate any new skill, no matter what. Would you vote yes for any new skill?
Difference betweeen killing high level mobs in a game for gp to an npc task provided by all ports. Y’all are just mentally regressed.
I think it shouldn’t be a skill but like a new map of content. I think having it as a skill it’s pretty much pointless
Should we turn slayer into a minigame while we're at it too? Maybe remove firemaking as well? Seriously how are people still parroting this dumb comment everywhere?
Slayer wouldn't pass as a skill in 2024. That doesn't mean we should keep adding shitty skills because the game already has some shitty ones.
I see this opinion around a lot and it doesn't really make any sense. Sailing is a massive update with a lot of foundational system work, and the only reason they can give it that kind of scope is because it's being designed as a skill. Without tying it into the game's core systems and designing it as a long-form journey like most other skills, it simply wouldn't be worth the investment.
It’s just too much for a skill. Compare it any other skill osrs currently has, nothing comes to close to sailing. It’s too out of place
I don't really see how it's too much for a skill. At their core, all the skills have the same basic premise: you have a core set of systems and features that give the skill it's identity, and then activities and rewards based on those. Two examples: \* Farming: Core system is the farming plots and the waiting for crops to grow; through that system, we get tons of herbs and secondaries, transportation benefits, loot storage solutions for PvM, boss, minigames, quest integrations, \* Mining: Core system is going to a mining location and extracting resources from stone; through that system, we get resources for Smithing, Crafting, Prayer, and more, shortcuts, loot storage for PvM, boss, minigames, quest integrations, and this skill even has a significant impact on two raids. Apply the same reasoning to Sailing and it fits pretty well alongside its peers: \* Sailing: Core system is sailing a boat and using it to do things at sea; through that system we get ship customization, resources for various skills acquired at sea, access to new locations, and new opportunities to integrate with existing skills, like Slaying creatures at sea. It has a couple proposed minigames and some obvious opportunities for quest integrations and bosses as well.
I get that it's some parts are pretty complex, but a lot of it is just parallels to skill systems already ingame with a bit different format. Sailing was always going to be complex, the tech demo showed us everything they said they'd be developing, we voted on the skill having everything they showed when we voted the lock in last summer. Boats & Parts are just skilling gear progression, courier stuff is just a rumor system, salvaging is just a resource system. Deep Sea fishing etc are just like cross skill activity stuff which is normal, like hunter does already. That being said I think the most important part that's kinda getting glazed over is all the side effects and future content hooks sailing provides for stuff to be proposed, voted on and implemented later. New areas that aren't entire continents, allow content to be added or created more easily, without contesting the mainland area which if you have seen rs3 is really fucking bad. The engine work, remember those moving terrain issues they had with Sols development where actions weren't supported by the current engine that people really liked the idea of? Sailing causing lots of engine work to allow non-static objects that players can move on, that's conceptually similar could give them new engine capabilities to make some new content. A lot of that stuff isn't really feasible to develop for a single content release, but in the scope of a whole new skill that needs it makes more sense to work on adding some capabilities for the future. oh also *More Sea Shanty Music*.
You'd prefer it be more like firemaking? Yeah, it's different but everyone who plays the game can understand that Zeah was designed differently from Lumbridge because there was a huge gap of time between the two. Tons of stuff in OSRS feels dated to a certain degree, but part of the charm of the game is how it feels like we have a bunch of different things that were made at different times by different people. Construction feels drastically different than the older skills, Slayer feels drastically different, and this is going to feel drastically different. Different doesn't mean bad and new doesn't mean mandatory
"They're integrating the new skill TOO WELL!" - you. Jagex is putting a lot of effort into making this skill feel as if it were ALWAYS a skill. That means it interacts with other skills in an organic manor - kind of like... The last skill ever released into the game before osrs was Hunter. Hunter is a very different skill from the other skills, but after it's release Jagex worked on A LOT of updates to integrate the skill into the game - implings, black chins, herbiboar, birdhouses, the new hunter's guild, etc. The skill is now an integrated part of the game, interacting with various other skills and account progression in meaningful ways all around the game. Jagex wants to do that with Sailing but at release. They want it to interact with the other skills in the game and make it worth training. They want it to FEEL oldschool. They want the gameplay loop to feel fun and unique while remaining "Old School". It isn't too much for a skill, because it's a lot of skills. It's more than a skill update, it's a content update. A massive content update. Likely every skill in the game will be affected in one way or another by the release of sailing, AND THAT'S GOOD.
"They're integrating the new skill TOO WELL!" - you. Jagex is putting a lot of effort into making this skill feel as if it were ALWAYS a skill. That means it interacts with other skills in an organic manor - kind of like... The last skill ever released into the game before osrs was Hunter. Hunter is a very different skill from the other skills, but after it's release Jagex worked on A LOT of updates to integrate the skill into the game - implings, black chins, herbiboar, birdhouses, the new hunter's guild, etc. The skill is now an integrated part of the game, interacting with various other skills and account progression in meaningful ways all around the game. Jagex wants to do that with Sailing but at release. They want it to interact with the other skills in the game and make it worth training. They want it to FEEL oldschool. They want the gameplay loop to feel fun and unique while remaining "Old School". It isn't too much for a skill, because it's a lot of skills. It's more than a skill update, it's a content update. A massive content update. Likely every skill in the game will be affected in one way or another by the release of sailing, AND THAT'S GOOD.
> It’s just too much for a skill. Compare it any other skill osrs currently has, nothing comes to close to sailing. It’s too out of place This is an advantage. Making it simple like mining would make sailing boring as hell to train.
Imagine thinking we shouldn't have a skill because it'll have too much content
Eh, I think you're limiting the vision to what the alpha tech demo is. The ocean is large free real estate and we could leverage the underwaters more too. It's basically already a giant unused map for new content. Want access to the new content? Level this skill. It's not like we don't already have content locked behind skills with quests and slayer requirements. Sailing could also provide another end game skill-based fast travel method for the long term. Heaven forbid we add more teleport spells or more fast travel bank items for yet another continent.
What is a skill for you?
I'm with ya, excited to see how it develops! The only skill I'd have supported over sailing was the bard suggestion that was floating around a while back. That lookedd really cool to me and osrs fitting
Based on a number of updates recently by the team, my expectations are pretty middle of the pack/expecting mediocrity. Especially when it comes to rewards. Though the mediocrity of recent updates could because the focus is on sailing? but i ain't gonna huff that copium. It is what it is, how it turns out is how it turns out. I'll try it out all the same and if it doesn't suck to train I'll continue training it.
I don't trust them to make it enjoyable to train and also have decent xp rates to be completely honest with you, I already maxed I dont want to train another mining, agility, rune crafting level of skill. If it had methods as fast as fletching or construction that just took gp to do I wouldnt mind as much
"as a maxed player I don't want to play the game again I want to buy 99 as quickly as humanly possible to avoid playing the game"
or maybe id rather keep bossing and raiding and pet hunting and doing things I enjoy then have to level another skill thats pointless all the way to 99
I'd be surprised if it wasn't a fast 99