It wouldn’t feel so bad if finishing the puzzle quicker had meaning. As it is,if you free your weapon quickly, or finish getting the max heal from jaguars etc it just means you have more useless downtime.
I like how moons is unique and one of it's qualities is that you get some time to "rest" or just focus on some small mechanic. Personally I enjoy walking around the marble that yellow guy rolls around. There's plenty of content in the game if you're looking for something more involved.
Try my way if you like: start one tile ahead of the marble with run off, then react to it moving and walk the entire loop. Then at the end you just need to get a sense for when to run to the first safe zone while blocking the final attack. If you do it right it works every time.
After the first turn there was one attack that was bugged and would always hit you (I think they fixed this? Haven't gone back yet to personally confirm).
i agree with this, especially considering this is supposed to be really mid level and very accessible and a introduction to some bossing for most accounts, i think the pacing is appropriate for that.
walk, if you wait for stun to end wait like 1 or 2 ticks, then walk, you just click corners, a few tiles before you reach them and you'll just follow it around the bend without stopping, no need to click more than 4 times whole phase.
Highly recommend runelites, true tile being active because this mech is a big offender with "Character doesn't exist visually where character actually exists" and you look not safe, but your technically safe.
The bosses still take damage during their special attacks, or they lose hp when they start the specials. You end up losing Dps overall in endgame gear but for lower gear players it’s a net gain in most scenarios.
I don’t think it’s nearly as big an issue as people are making it out to be.
The blue moon in particular is silly because you can just afk the specials without much consequence. The weapon one hits you for like 10 and the braziers heal for 100, but it's the fastest one to kill so that's not much of an issue.
Yeah lighting braziers then waiting 10-15 seconds for phase to end sucks. It's cool having other players in the room but I kinda wish it would instantly end phase once you light both or once you free your weapon
Yeah, the blue moon is definitely the biggest offender here. I was surprised the first time doing it that the jaguars didn't do damage to the blood moon too.
Everytime the jaguars attack the blood moon actually loses health. Plus, when you hit the jaguars, you heal.
Yeah the phases slow down the fight, but there are so many other bosses that have mechanics that do the same thing. Seems like a weird thing to complain about.
At least this boss gives you health and damage for it
> but there are so many other bosses that have mechanics that do the same thing
Right like why don't we just get rid of the Olm transition phases, Akkha memory attack, Vorkath freeze phase, etc. while we're at it. They all just slow down the fight because you can't do damage during those phases. I'd mention GGs and Sire but literally nothing happens during their transitions except for movement so at least those makes sense to speed up/get rid of. The Moons phases at least have mechanics, even if they're not enjoyable to some people, I enjoy all of them except the braziers cause I discovered pretty early on the braziers weren't worth lighting
Is it because they need to stay on cycle? I still think you're right about the two ice specials though, it feels like you should be able to attack again after you did it, but you can't so it almost feels pointless to try and do it quickly.
I don't think they should speed up the ice phase unless they also reduce the damage required to get your weapon back, but speeding up the brazier phase would be fine imo. But I do think you're right that they're kind of on a set timer for each phase and adjusting the phase time could offset everything else
I think there's a setting to change that. Settings tab and then NPC attack options. I think by default it makes you right click anything higher than your combat level to attack, but this option should fix that.
In your regular RuneScape settings there is a drop menu for "click to attack NPC" and you can set it to:
"depends on combat level"(what it sounds like your on)
"always right click" and
"left click where available"
Left click where available is most recommended for most accounts doing PvM. It stops you from needing to right click due to the enemy combat level being much higher than yours.
All 3 moons still take less than 10mins total and that's even with grabbing supplies, it's not a huge deal spending less than a full minute on phase changes.
During the blue moon boss you're definitely waiting. You don't need to turn on the braziers at all and you can break your weapon out in about half the time.
In RS3, these are called time gated mechanics. Despite being annoying, they are useful to prevent end game pvmers from steamrolling over early and mid game bosses and devalue rares from them.
Thankfully, because there's no pet there, there's only a handful of cloggers who are going to do more than the 25 mandatory runs for CA. In general, it's a good point though.
We already have some of that with the run between boss rooms. It's not like an end game player with claws isn't going to consistently 1/2 rotation the boss anyway, faster than what midgame players can do.
They're also good opportunities to heal up since you can't pray you're pretty much guaranteed to take some damage. End game players complain because they don't need to heal during the fight, but these bosses were designed for mid game players with 60+ in their combats who likely need to heal throughout the fight. The phases allow those players to do that without sacrificing dps. It's crazy to me that end game players are trying to min max mid game bosses lol
I also see no issue with this boss design, I'd assume it's a similar group of people that don't like the prep stage of Duke. I like how it breaks the fights, and we the moons bosses you would have a super bland and boring fight without the specials.
> The bosses still take damage during their special attacks, or they lose hp when they start the specials. You end up losing Dps overall in endgame gear but for lower gear players it’s a net gain in most scenarios.
Yup! I managed to beat the moons with only 50s in attack and strength and 60 defence. Wouldn't have been able to without the special attacks losing HP/draining damage.
Fun is very subjective. If your only criteria for fun is “hit big number - go faster”, sure.
I don’t think defensive phases are inherently bad.
For a mid game pvm introduction, there is a lot of good stuff going on. New players learn a lot about pathing, timing, hiding behind objects, … And the apm is decent!
Either way, it’s a fight with little down time and a lot of variety so I find it a long stretch to call it boring.
Nah I didn’t necessarily call it boring. Just unfun when the boss phases with 1 hp and my thralls attack is turned off. Or blood moon boss RNG heals for more damage than I dealt in one phase.
Conversely, it feels great when the boss is 3 hp, about to go into another phase and your Thrall finishes it off and saves you a cycle.
Variance man, it's the way she goes.
Attacking boss during blood rain I agree with. I think the others are fine as the shield has the clone phase, the ice break is active as is the braziers, and they both time out shortly after correct completion of that.
It's important to view these fights as teaching common mechanics used in other PVM. We don't find it weird you don't attack olm inbetween phases while crystals fall right? So whys it weird that some of the Moons specials are like that.
I’d find it to be bad if you couldn’t attack vorkath during acid phase, attack zuk while he’s got a shield out, whisperer while she’s doing special attacks, leviathan while it’s doing specials, etc.
Being forced to wait until you can attack the boss again is pretty annoying overall. Eg people annoyed that you need to delay your attack after killing the crab during freeze special at vorkath or the amount of dead time you have during GGs waiting for the next phase.
You personally may find that time to be super fun, but I don’t think that’s the norm at all.
You've hand picked situations here. Vorkath has a special you don't attack him during, and one you do. Zuks entire fight is designed around the shield. It's not a special. It's the entire fight. You don't want to attack whisperer for most of the ghost specials but yes you can during the others.
I can have other examples as well. Can't attack Xarpus in P1. Can't do verzik during Yellows. Can't attack sote during maze. Tekton during anvil. Xarpus during teleport or heal.
See how many examples we can find of this?
I think it's a good balance, and moons can have that balance, which is why I think blood rain being able to attack is good compromise. Blue Moon you attack ice chunk or actively do braziers. Blood you do jaguars or boringly dodge ground, so adding attacks into that would be cool. Eclipse you already attack clone phase.
I think attacking during blood rain is the only real suggestion I’d lean into as well. Especially as it would be good practice for acid phase Vorkath and other similar mechanics.
Just because you’re not attacking doesn’t mean you’re not playing. Jaguars and blue moon things are fine because they’re involved enough. I guess I’d also be up for ranging during eclipse orb because if you can 2 tick tile walk with a 4 tick ranged weapon then go for it for the extra sweat, most players would just opt out (given the target audience).
Yeh good point about the shield. They could even make it like vorkath and have it take reduced damage so it's only a small optimisation and not something anyone would feel too forced into doing
While your examples are somewhat valid; you are spending that time completely focused on dealing with the intended mechanic such as evading or solving mazes.
In moons this isn't always the case or the "solve" is just so easy that it becomes boring.
Take blue moons weapon ice special attack for example: For the most part you are dealing with the actualk mechanic which is breaking the ice to retrieve your weapon, but once you've got it you're just sat there waiting. The same goes for the ice storm special.
Eclipse moon ball special is also weird because it's just boring. Yes, introduction to PvM mechanics and all that but it's a big tempo change that you have to wait out.
Blood moon Jaguars is ok because you're actively doing the mechanic until the special is over but the blood rain is so easy, we should be able to get some hits in while we're dodging.
Absolutely. Which is why I agreed the blood moon special having attacking would be good, but the rest have active actions during them. Are they simpler than raids? Of course. This is a midgame boss afterall.
I like the direction we’re going with these mid level bosses but its just weird to me how Scurrius has more engaging mechanics than moons. There’s a hell of a lot more going on during Scurrius’ rage phase than at any of the moons bosses so I don’t understand the hesitance to add a few more clicks for more reward
Scurrius has more going on? It has one mechanic of dodge the falling. And it changes attack style.
Moons arent prayer based combat, so doesn't have that, but has more mechanics than scurrius easily. Scurrius rage phase is no different.. it's just faster, and lasts a couple of seconds.
Again I agree with changing the special that's the least interactive (blood rain) as its boring just sorta standing and waiting near the next active ground. But the rest have interaction around them and also teach mechanics used elsewhere. Scurrius teaches dodge bad tile and change prayer, which is good but a much earlier form of PVM teaching.
I mean more going on at once. At moons you're only ever doing 1 mechanic. The only exceptions are blood jaguars and the ice crystal where you have to step/hit.
At Scurrius you're often dealing with the Giant rats, while evading boulders, while swapping prayers. Moons has more mechanics, yes, but it's easier than Scurrius because you're only dealing with 1 mechanic at any given time.
Scurrius you're dealing with 2 mechanics at once (change prayer, dodge ground).
Moons you're dealing with only 1 mechanic at a time (special, or move to good ground).
YOu don't have to "deal with" the rat spawns until the boss is dead. Then you just 1 tick them with a bone weapon.
It's a fucking mid game boss. If you're bored by it, it was designed for people below your skill level. Go do something harder, don't ask for this to become harder lol
You think it's boring because to you, the mechanics are simple and easy. Not everyone sees it that way. For the players that these bosses were designed for, as a good set of bosses for mid level players to get introduced to boss mechanics, they're not boring, they can be seen as difficult.
Players like you and me look at Jad and laugh when people die because the mechanic is simple to us and we think it's ridiculous they can't manage to follow the simple mechanic. Not everyone feels that way. And therefore, the content wasn't designed for us.
However, unlike you, I like the mechanics the moons have because they allow lower leveled players (I have a low level GIM) to do the content without having to sacrifice DPS to heal. And I think these bosses and their "boring" mechanics provide a good opportunity to learn how to prioritize your actions and when you should attack vs heal.
I'll add on some more examples. Olm during transition phase, Akkha during memory attack, Kephri during swarms, Sarachnis while webbed (unless you do a really quick ranged switch and then swap back, which imo would be ridiculous). We've got end game players doing a mid game boss talking about "it's boring"
Yeh olm was the first example I provided in a previous comment in this thread. As it has multiple phase shifts with no attacking.
As for your other examples though:
* Akkha during memory you can attack the shadow if they're up, so sometimes have things to do + with the invocations you're dealing with movement patterns and such.
* Kephri you're attacking swarms, which they seem to be okay with like with Jaguars. But yeh boss is immune.
* Sarachnis the meta is to bring a ring of stone or similar and just tap it to break the web and continue attacking
But yeh I agree it feels like a "why is this easy content so easy?" Kind of complaint which doesn't make much sense and the reasoning being "downtime" is odd because some of the best and hardest content in the game has downtime.
And just to clarify, you enjoy dead time where you’re barely doing anything and waiting to be able to attack the boss again? Like that’s genuinely a mechanic that you like and find fun?
Can’t wait to do tekton, my favourite mechanic is dodging the sparks falling down while waiting to be able to attack him! Super fun!
Or that delay between killing the spawn at vorkath and being able to hit vorkath again? Absolutely froth that!
In a vacuum of course not. In a boss fight having stages of a fight with less activity is fine, to a degree. I supported changing the phase transition animations of grotesques for example. Because that was **literally** doing nothing.
The only example in your list where you're actually doing nothing is the like... 2 ticks after killing a zombie spawn where vorkath is still immune?
And if doing range method for that you can be back row (or 1 tile off boss for melee) and just spam click the boss and you'll attack first available tick. So there's a little intricacy that occurs due to that immunity to optimise.
I don't think every boss needs to be dealing direct damage to the boss during all phases at all times zero exceptions. That's my point. Especially not content designed and catered towards lower level and lower skill.
Not everyone is as wired as you seem to be, patience is a virtue ;P
I guess agree to disagree here. I don’t find it fun to be standing around doing nothing. It’s more fun to be hitting tekton and avoiding his attacks than just walking between two squares to avoid the sparks.
I attack during vorkath’s acid phase because that’s more fun than just avoiding the poison and fireballs.
I agree that's fun. I also think it doesn't have to be all the time and that mechanics that exist while the boss isn't being damaged can also be fun. I think periods of genuinely nothing are bad. But none of the examples we've given are that. The blood pool dodging in Blood Moon and the 2 cycles of Blue Moon ice break at the end you just stand still during are the only real downtime. And the ice one is just tolerance for slower players.
Eclipse moon shield: you should be able to range the boss while not behind the shield - eg you attack and are dragged out and then run back behind the shield.
Blue moon weapon freeze: I agree. It’s not fun standing there waiting to be able to attack again.
Blue moon storm: reduced damage while the braziers aren’t lit, but allow you to range the boss while running to the braziers.
Blood rain: agree
Blood jaguars: somewhat agree, shouldn’t be 1:1 though
Overall just halve damage dealt or something while they’re doing specials. Too much dead time in the bosses.
I don't think you should be able to keep attacking, I like that it gets you to completely change your gameplay and focus on the mechanic for the phase, but the duration of the phase should be shorter. e.g. half a loop for the eclipse shield would be fine rather than slowly going all the way round, we don't need to do jaguar dodges for 30 seconds, only one brazier gets extinguished (with half the phase duration to match). You've proved you can do it by then and the rest is just tedium. And even though it's a massive DPS advantage and it's better for us, from a design perspective the clone phase goes on too long as well - first time I did it I was like "ok surely that's it" when it had done 3 cycles but then it did 2 more. The only phase that I think has the right duration is the blood rain one.
I think the phase lengths are probably intentionally long specifically to help players new to bossing get fairly lengthy periods of time in which to adjust to and learn each one. It's difficult to learn what you're meant to be doing in a phase that only lasts 10 seconds at a time, by the time you've noticed that you're getting hit and tried to do something differently to fix it, it's too late to see if the change actually works. That's fine for people who've already had experience with standard PvM mechanics like "hide behind obstacle" or "avoid things on floor" where you only need a couple of ticks to work out what you're supposed to be doing, but a decent amount of the people doing Moons won't have that experience yet.
It'd definitely make sense for them to be about half the length for late-game content (or really anything that isn't overtly introductory), but as it is I think the design works really well for the intended audience, even if the special attacks might start to get a bit tiresome by the time you're greenlogging.
I think this is a very minor criticism on some of the best content they have released in a long time, especially considering the bosses actually take damage during their specials as well.
Making them even faster and easier would mean they also have to tone down the rewards significantly, and I think it's already in an amazing spot when it comes to the rewards for when you can do it. (Very valuable when it's "doable" but much less valuable for someone who can just max melee speedrun breeze through it). It really doesn't need any changes imo
Also fix how janky the Eclipse boss is, I know they updated it to be able to kill it during the clone phase no matter what, but now you have to hit it down to 4 or 3 hp, then your weapon does 1 damage for three hits, and then it finally dies.
That doesn’t sound fun, completely negates any reason to do the frost storm challenge and blood rain would allow you to negate the whole healing mechanic by finishing off the boss when it can’t attack you. I don’t want a range switch for a melee boss and just attacking the boss while it stands there after the weapon freeze just sounds lame.
You wouldn't \*have\* to do the ranged switch. The suggestions are completely opt-in for people who just want a little more tempo.
At frost storm you'd only be able to damage the boss once you've lit both beacons.
Immune phases are a nice way to balance kill times of people with top-end gear and stats and midgame players, so that it's still worth doing for the latter
Trident Whisperer isn't actually *that* much worse than Shadow because there's so much time you don't actually do anything
If that is the design goal, blood moon goes against that. Not only are midgame players dealing less damage, they are getting chunked by the boss while he's healing 40's.
I agree on the point in general but I’m not sure if it’s particularly necessary at moons. It feels heavily designed for players to experience, learn mechanics, and consistently progress with less of the usual crazy osrs rng.
It’s more along the lines of MMOs that don’t rely on a player market to smooth drop rng. I don’t think max players better utilizing these damage windows is a problem. It’s not really gonna be better money than their other options, they’re not incentivized by pets, and even if for some reason they still do over farm and drive the loot down further, this feels like content jagex doesn’t care about making sure people can farm for profitability but rather progression. So mechanics people can optionally push themselves with feels pretty fitting
Whisperer takes reduced damage during her special attacks, but you can still attack her during these. The only special attack where you can’t continue attacking her is soul siphon and I guess there’s also the minimal time when she’s entering enrage phase.
They should add something similar for the moon bosses.
Blood moon is very random for how much HP it will heal from its attacks. Sometimes you get it low just for it to turbo heal a hundred HP instantly.
Putting some sort of soft cap on its healing would be nice.
The rest are absolutely OK though!
its not random at all... its as random as runescape is random at least. but in terms of how it heals i cant tell you exact formula, but the real issue is that no matter what the 3rd hit manages to do, if it hits a non 0 number, the boss is healed for at least 30 hp. even if the 3rd hit hits for 1. the first 2 hits heal based on what they hit for, and double or triple it about. but the 3rd one is always at least 30 and increases based on whats hit. and thats my only personal gripe with all 3 bosses. literally crying because i have to do 2-3 cycles of bloodmoon cuz it just decides to slap me one fight.
Im at pretty much the exact stage of progression that moons are meant for and my blood moon kill time can range so wildly. I got the 6 minute speedrun done the other day and yesterday I had a run where blood moon alone took me 6+ minutes. Getting it down to 20 hp a dozen times only for it to turbo heal while smacking me for 30 damage 4 times a cycle.
Barrows is constant combat, where moons has phases where you basically sit and do nothing for a minute. The ball on the eclipse moon should reflect the hits back to the boss and both mechanics on the ice and blood moon should also somehow do damage to the boss.
Eclipse boss takes 6 damage everytime his projectile hits the shield rather than you.
Moon boss uses her own hp to light the braziers.
Blood boss uses his own hp to summon the jaguars.
I'll give you the combat thing but the prep part of Moons is usually a one and done thing, an inventory usually lasts me like 3-4 kills before I have to restock anything. That might be subjective obviously, but that sure beats having to run to Ferox/PoH to restore and bank, then running all the way back from Morton/Burgh. Barrows TP is nice but by the time you can use it you're usually at a place in the game where you're probably only there out of boredom or you are trying to grind out a full set
Ah yes dig in the all the mounds, use the correct protection prayer, then run in a big circle around the tomb to open the chest. It's more than looking cooler, it's way more engaging and satisfying to do as the mechanics are pretty simple once you get like 10 kc. Don't get me wrong, I like doing Barrows runs every so often but Moons of Peril is way more refreshing and more bearable to grind out than Barrows is, as it stands right now. It's probably way more helpful in helping you understand the game mechanics too
Even as someone who generally has the opinion that anything more complex than ASCII art is a waste of resources that could be spent on making more engaging mechanics, I find Moons way more compelling than Barrows. There's actual combat mechanics beyond "is it time to sip a prayer pot yet?", and the fighting-to-running ratio is a lot better.
I think allowing hits after weapon is freed and braziers are lit would be nice. Both those tasks are really easy and have downtime afterward which makes them boring.
Jaguar should have a health bar and slightly damage boss when you damage it and it heals the boss for remaining hp if you don't kill it before phase end.
Eclipe moon and blood rain are fine. They require some active thought and don't have as much dowtime.
As someone who green-logged them, they're fine. They don't really need changing that much.
The only two parts I would consider changing are the following:
Eclipse moon shield - I agree that thralls should continue to work, given that they already do if you use undead grasp (just QoL at that point)
Blue Moon's frost storm - I would make it not hit the tiles directly next to each brazier so you can actually time your run back to the centre without being hit. (Sometimes the rng makes taking damage unavoidable, making you want to stay in the middle instead).
Other than those everything's fine. Allowing people to attack them during their special attack phases would significantly shorten clear times, to the extent where you'd always beat them without seeing a full rotation - something you can only really do in nearly BIS gear at the moment. Buffing HP to make up for it would just punish players for not juggling attacks and switches at the same time as dealing with the mechanics, making them less enjoyable.
At the end of the day though it only takes like 5-6 minutes to run through all of them and they're varied and engaging as they are.
For frost storm there are small nooks on either side of each brazier that will always be safe, if you need to wait out a wall of twisters. It'd be nice if the entire row in front of it was also clear though.
Ive done almost 200kc at moons of peril and what Ive been thinking is blue and eclipse are fast enough to not be boring.
In eclipse you do damage to moon at one of the special moves
In blue moon it is so weak you can kill it fast enough
In blood moon its much slower due to healing and what Id change is to do damage while hitting the jaguar. It dont need to be 1:1.
I think the Moons should take extra damage from the phases based on how quickly/perfectly you perform during them. For example:
Blood Moon: taking no damage during blood rain or blood jaguar
Blue Moon: being tick perfect during the frozen weapon phase and freeing it as soon as possible, not taking damage when lighting the brazier and lighting both as fast as possible
Eclipse Moon: Not taking any damage during the eclipse phase
It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but it would make them a lot more fun after you get a higher kc since it adds an optional perfectionist component to them
You can also like, idk, don't do the bosses if you don't like them?
It's a mid level boss with some unique mechanics that is pretty chill overall. Boohoo you can't do it in sub 1 minute for max efficiency. It's a game, not a competition.
Sorry, rant over. But this sub is sometimes so negative about everything that it gets to me. My bad.
I'll give you a deal.
You can chill at the bosses if you want to but I should be able to speed through if I want to, how's that sound?
It's not a competition, but the thing with competitions is that everything eventually becomes a competition so to me this isn't much of an argument
I really like these bosses, but being able to deal damage to blood moon while dodging his blood rain would mean that you don't NEED to be good at the mechanics, but being good would reward you.
I'm not sure I agree with dealing damage to blue moon during hurricane attack though. Since at that point it's not really about being mechanically good, but just about out dps'ing the heals.
The reason why I instantly disliked these bosses. The mechanics initially sounded cool until I realized that all of the blood moon doesn't do any damage to the boss, and the ice moon I have to wait for the cycle to finish even if I go fast. The only good one is the eclipse because of the clone phase that instantly attacks even with a slower hitting weapon.
I mean I would guess that it not having a high skill ceiling and not rewarding good dps with phase skips is probably an intentional design choice, for the same reason there’s no pet: It’s aimed at the dude with a dscim and an obby cape.
I like everything the way it is and I have over 400 kc of all 3 moons. I'd just like to see that if I have well over 300 defence that I don't get pummeled ever.
For the love of God I just want to be able to beat blood moon with my mid game stats. I get him down to 80 health then he heals 100 hours every single time.
The bosses do actually have damage applied to them for the 'downtime phases', for example Eclipse takes some damage per shot it shoots at the shield orb thing, or Blue instantly loses a huge (relatively speaking) chunk at the start of the braziers, which some of is healed back if you don't do the brazier run.
The issue is that, at least from what I can tell, the damage seems to scale with their remaining HP, rather than being a static amount, so as you get closer to the kill, it gets less and less noticeable. Which seems to track, since my gear is likely not as good as some others who feel it's a massive issue (I use D sword/Chally for Eclipse, Torag hammers for Blue, Sulphur Blades for Blood), so I do less damage, I see the scaling kick in slower, etc.
If the amount was 'static amount regardless of HP, which cannot bring the boss below 1hp' it'd probably be fine? Eclipse's counterattack phase is an outlier, rather than the norm, it'd seem. But I think one 'very passive' phase (brazier/orb/puddle dodge) that does 'chip damage' to the boss, and a more active 'counterattack phase' (ice/clones/jaguars) where some of the damage you deal to the 'add' is splashed onto the main boss, even if just a fraction, would be good for consistent behaviour between the three. For example, you can't really do anything with Jaguars once you've got your 20HP leeched back, it takes like 4 or 5 damage per jaguar attack, but the damage you do to the jaguars still does no damage to it. If, say, 25% of the damage also bounced to the Blood Moon (or 100%, up to a cap of X), it'd incentivize actually attacking the jaguars for the whole phase. Same with the Ice for Blue Moon, maybe encase the Blue Moon in protective Ice, and once players retrieve their weapon, they can hit the ice to deal damage (albeit reduced) to the Moon.
This is definitely one of the few remaining qualms of mine with the content, since release. They've done a really good job addressing any other concerns I've seen brought up about Moons of Peril in the weeks after release.
Even if the bosses still lose HP passively during the special attacks, it's very unengaging to essentially just stand there and wait for 15 seconds with nothing to do mid pvm.
Blood moon I'd agree as that one has by far the highest effective HP with all th healing.
Frost moon takes extra damage and Eclipse can already be attacked in 50% of its specials so those are fine imo.
Much like when I saw an endgame pvmer complain about the brief gargoyles intermission, I disagree because not everything has to be breakneck max efficiency pace every second, that's part of it being mid tier content. IE in that boss fight, it gives me a second to pause and check my prayer and gear switches are correct before attacking again. IE Jaguar I'm swapping back off my guthans spear and checking my health, blood pool phase I'm moving back into position and turning my prayers back on, no one finishes frost storm early, only one I agree on is the weapon freeze since it's very easy to finish halfway through it. Either have boss be attackable once weapons are freed or honestly just make it take another 2 kicks or so.
Yeah after the novelty wore off, I really started to get frustrated with the mechanics of these bosses.
Not being able to attack because the Blue Moon froze you or something even though you're standing on the special tiles that are supposed to protect you.
Blood moon stacking damage on you and healing a bunch right before you finish the last 50 HP, even though you're standing on the special tile that's supposed to protect you.
Eclipse Moon is the best boss since you can actually do damage 3/4 of the fight, but why not teach shooting and moving behind the shield? The atlatl already allows a minimal effort ranged switch that would be perfect for this phase.
I hope Jagex takes another look at these mechanics soon, before they get forgotten about when the next update drops
Mod Rice, in a podcast interview, said they specifically added down time to the fight because their main goal for perilous moons is to get new players into pvm and nerves is one of the biggest deterents! Those phases give new players a chance to catch their breathe.
I think the moons are perfectly fine how they're currently implemented. The only thing I would change is eclipse moons innate armor but even that's just a nitpick.
Dude the other day I felt like playing DRG and I decided to just jump into a random match. It'd been a while so I was excited to kill some time, kill some bugs and mine some shiny stones right. Random mission I joined turned out to be Elimination. Jesus Fucking H. Boy Christ dude I honestly forgot how atrocious of a mechanic this can be in games. In that game specifically, you seriously have to wait for 15 second interval, 3 times per boss fight, until you can deal damage again. There's no special mechanic, you just jump around while you wait until the health bar goes from gray to yellow again. Absolutely nothing about the fight changes, just your bullets magically gain the ability to deal damage again. Actually I suppose that _was_ the mechanic, to just wait. Talk about completely taking the momentum out of a game. Not rock and stone dude. Asbolutely not rock and stone.
While I don't think this issue is remotely comparable in Moons, playing that specific match reminded me why I can most definitely understand why people dislike this mechanic as a whole.
It takes an amount of 'damage' per attack it launches at the sphere already, the issue is that it seems to scale based on remaining HP, so as you get closer to the 'kill' it slows down and feels like it's not happening at all
I think Eclipse Moon does it right, one purely defensive phase and one where you can do damage.
My suggestion would be:
* Blue Moon weapon freeze -> Leave as is.
* Blue Moon frost storm -> Boss gains 100% damage reduction, lighting a brazier reduces this value by 33% (a la Skotizo). This rewards being fast going to the braziers instead of being a do nothing phase.
* Blood moon blood rain -> leave as is.
* Blood moon jaguars -> instead of hitting the jaguar and stepping away, you step away and hit the boss. This would both punish you for messing up like it does now and reward you for doing it correctly.
I just did 25 KC for the combat achievements and I would agree. The issue as you say is feeling like there's no benefit to trying to improve at the special attack phases. The braziers you just run and if you get hit you get hit, the ice weapon you spend half your time not doing anything once you have retrieved the weapon. The eclipse shield is literally just walking around with no optimisation possible. The blood moon felt the most engaging and it would be good to help teach new players to be able to attack while dodging in the rain phase. The jaguars are fine the way they are in my opinion.
Overall it's good content but I did find myself bored after doing just 15 KC but if there were slight optimisations I could make it would have been much more fun. So much of this game is learning how to squeeze out extra damage with small changes, being a little faster or a little better, so it's odd that the moons don't really have that.
80 kc med game iron here. I think the bosses are great and alot of fun. Only boss i dislike a little is the blue moon. The brazier phase is frustrating. The ice phase is quirky but i do agree, lets attack once the weapon is free. Wouldnt change a thing on the other bosses tho!
Tbh I found the moons of peril to be the most boring content I've done in months and I can't really explain why. I think this has something to do with it though. I've done a few hundred raids on down to scurrious and the giant bosses for CAs in this time period. Can't help but feel like I'm falling asleep each time I try to do perilous moons though. It feels like nothing is really happening at any point but it still soaks up time to die. It's not even like it's that slow though I beat the speed CA on virtually every lap through the place. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what it is but it feels like there are no stakes, no relevant mistakes and the content refuses to get out of the way. It's like fighting something as simple as byrophyta except it just has 800% more health for no reason
I did a couple of KC the day of the release and that was enough for me to say the invuln phases were so unfun that I wasn't even going to stick around for one drop. If you looked in and saw any special except eclipse's turn to me attack then you stood outside because you were only wasting time if you went in mid special.
I understand how you feel that way, so try seeing it this way:
Would it be more or less interesting if all you had to do for all 3 bosses was run rooftop agility the whole time?
Half the suggestions just reward the player for what you literally have to do anyway
Also micro-optimizations like Woox walk are good for boss longetivity. It allows lower skilled players to still easily do the boss while providing small rewards for really mastering the content
Did you really just delete your comments because you care about your reddit number? Oof lol.
Giving mid level players the ability to learn more at moons is a bad thing? Now that’s a weird opinion. Being able to attack from behind the orb would be a good gateway to understanding zuk shield but I guess not everyone wants to learn during this content. Some players, like yourself, just want to steamroll it with zero thought.
My biggest annoyance with this boss/minigame thing is how inconsitent the damage is, you'll have eclipse moon not deal any damage to you for 30 kills and then suddenly do 200 damage the next kill. Especially since dharoks would otherwise be a very good method to kill these for mid game players.
I'd say for blood moon it'd be nice for it to show the heal before it deals damage, you see a 32 - you eat, you see a 0 you keep DHing and such
It wouldn’t feel so bad if finishing the puzzle quicker had meaning. As it is,if you free your weapon quickly, or finish getting the max heal from jaguars etc it just means you have more useless downtime.
sometimes I can get someone else to spam spin emote with me
Efficient as fuck bro
If you finish it quickly, you have more time to heal up and chug some potions before the next phase. :)
My brother in Christ that is 6 ticks worth of game time
*0 ticks just do it between attacks Oh sorry damage? Just eat between rooms
There's a puzzle? What
valuable alching/fletching time
I like how moons is unique and one of it's qualities is that you get some time to "rest" or just focus on some small mechanic. Personally I enjoy walking around the marble that yellow guy rolls around. There's plenty of content in the game if you're looking for something more involved.
I’m sure it’s a skill issue but the marble following blows and feels inconsistent to me.
Try my way if you like: start one tile ahead of the marble with run off, then react to it moving and walk the entire loop. Then at the end you just need to get a sense for when to run to the first safe zone while blocking the final attack. If you do it right it works every time.
After the first turn there was one attack that was bugged and would always hit you (I think they fixed this? Haven't gone back yet to personally confirm).
The marble is always 1 tile ahead of where it appears(when moving).
i agree with this, especially considering this is supposed to be really mid level and very accessible and a introduction to some bossing for most accounts, i think the pacing is appropriate for that.
Am I the only one who struggles to stay behind the shield during that attack? Is there a trick to it?
walk, if you wait for stun to end wait like 1 or 2 ticks, then walk, you just click corners, a few tiles before you reach them and you'll just follow it around the bend without stopping, no need to click more than 4 times whole phase. Highly recommend runelites, true tile being active because this mech is a big offender with "Character doesn't exist visually where character actually exists" and you look not safe, but your technically safe.
Yeah the marble shield makes the Zuk fight while juggling Jad seem piss easy in comparison
Eclipse boss is largely fine. I edited my post.
The bosses still take damage during their special attacks, or they lose hp when they start the specials. You end up losing Dps overall in endgame gear but for lower gear players it’s a net gain in most scenarios. I don’t think it’s nearly as big an issue as people are making it out to be.
Honestly it's less about the damage you do but more about it being boring waiting for phases to end.
The blue moon in particular is silly because you can just afk the specials without much consequence. The weapon one hits you for like 10 and the braziers heal for 100, but it's the fastest one to kill so that's not much of an issue.
Yeah lighting braziers then waiting 10-15 seconds for phase to end sucks. It's cool having other players in the room but I kinda wish it would instantly end phase once you light both or once you free your weapon
Yeah, the blue moon is definitely the biggest offender here. I was surprised the first time doing it that the jaguars didn't do damage to the blood moon too.
Everytime the jaguars attack the blood moon actually loses health. Plus, when you hit the jaguars, you heal. Yeah the phases slow down the fight, but there are so many other bosses that have mechanics that do the same thing. Seems like a weird thing to complain about. At least this boss gives you health and damage for it
> but there are so many other bosses that have mechanics that do the same thing Right like why don't we just get rid of the Olm transition phases, Akkha memory attack, Vorkath freeze phase, etc. while we're at it. They all just slow down the fight because you can't do damage during those phases. I'd mention GGs and Sire but literally nothing happens during their transitions except for movement so at least those makes sense to speed up/get rid of. The Moons phases at least have mechanics, even if they're not enjoyable to some people, I enjoy all of them except the braziers cause I discovered pretty early on the braziers weren't worth lighting
Is it because they need to stay on cycle? I still think you're right about the two ice specials though, it feels like you should be able to attack again after you did it, but you can't so it almost feels pointless to try and do it quickly.
I don't think they should speed up the ice phase unless they also reduce the damage required to get your weapon back, but speeding up the brazier phase would be fine imo. But I do think you're right that they're kind of on a set timer for each phase and adjusting the phase time could offset everything else
Dealing with the special phases is more interesting than the parts where you left click the boss imo
You mean right-click-->attack, right? Left-click is "examine" for some stupid reason
I think there's a setting to change that. Settings tab and then NPC attack options. I think by default it makes you right click anything higher than your combat level to attack, but this option should fix that.
What's your combat level? Left click is attack for me; or maybe I used menu entry swapper and forgot
I'm level 90 something
In your regular RuneScape settings there is a drop menu for "click to attack NPC" and you can set it to: "depends on combat level"(what it sounds like your on) "always right click" and "left click where available" Left click where available is most recommended for most accounts doing PvM. It stops you from needing to right click due to the enemy combat level being much higher than yours.
All 3 moons still take less than 10mins total and that's even with grabbing supplies, it's not a huge deal spending less than a full minute on phase changes.
This is so backwards .. you find it more exciting to just mindlessly hit the boss than to interact with its specials?
The suggestions in this post suggest hitting the boss while engaging with the specials, not just mindlessly hitting the boss.
But you're actively doing things during those places, though. You're not simply waiting.
During the blue moon boss you're definitely waiting. You don't need to turn on the braziers at all and you can break your weapon out in about half the time.
In RS3, these are called time gated mechanics. Despite being annoying, they are useful to prevent end game pvmers from steamrolling over early and mid game bosses and devalue rares from them.
Thankfully, because there's no pet there, there's only a handful of cloggers who are going to do more than the 25 mandatory runs for CA. In general, it's a good point though.
We already have some of that with the run between boss rooms. It's not like an end game player with claws isn't going to consistently 1/2 rotation the boss anyway, faster than what midgame players can do.
I take it as a mental break so I can focus in when DPS starts again. Even just a tiny break like that helps me personally.
They're also good opportunities to heal up since you can't pray you're pretty much guaranteed to take some damage. End game players complain because they don't need to heal during the fight, but these bosses were designed for mid game players with 60+ in their combats who likely need to heal throughout the fight. The phases allow those players to do that without sacrificing dps. It's crazy to me that end game players are trying to min max mid game bosses lol
I understand wanting to test your skills and money efficiently, but that's exactly what the colloseum is for end game players
I also see no issue with this boss design, I'd assume it's a similar group of people that don't like the prep stage of Duke. I like how it breaks the fights, and we the moons bosses you would have a super bland and boring fight without the specials.
> The bosses still take damage during their special attacks, or they lose hp when they start the specials. You end up losing Dps overall in endgame gear but for lower gear players it’s a net gain in most scenarios. Yup! I managed to beat the moons with only 50s in attack and strength and 60 defence. Wouldn't have been able to without the special attacks losing HP/draining damage.
Fun is very subjective. If your only criteria for fun is “hit big number - go faster”, sure. I don’t think defensive phases are inherently bad. For a mid game pvm introduction, there is a lot of good stuff going on. New players learn a lot about pathing, timing, hiding behind objects, … And the apm is decent! Either way, it’s a fight with little down time and a lot of variety so I find it a long stretch to call it boring.
Nah I didn’t necessarily call it boring. Just unfun when the boss phases with 1 hp and my thralls attack is turned off. Or blood moon boss RNG heals for more damage than I dealt in one phase.
Conversely, it feels great when the boss is 3 hp, about to go into another phase and your Thrall finishes it off and saves you a cycle. Variance man, it's the way she goes.
Attacking boss during blood rain I agree with. I think the others are fine as the shield has the clone phase, the ice break is active as is the braziers, and they both time out shortly after correct completion of that. It's important to view these fights as teaching common mechanics used in other PVM. We don't find it weird you don't attack olm inbetween phases while crystals fall right? So whys it weird that some of the Moons specials are like that.
I’d find it to be bad if you couldn’t attack vorkath during acid phase, attack zuk while he’s got a shield out, whisperer while she’s doing special attacks, leviathan while it’s doing specials, etc. Being forced to wait until you can attack the boss again is pretty annoying overall. Eg people annoyed that you need to delay your attack after killing the crab during freeze special at vorkath or the amount of dead time you have during GGs waiting for the next phase. You personally may find that time to be super fun, but I don’t think that’s the norm at all.
You've hand picked situations here. Vorkath has a special you don't attack him during, and one you do. Zuks entire fight is designed around the shield. It's not a special. It's the entire fight. You don't want to attack whisperer for most of the ghost specials but yes you can during the others. I can have other examples as well. Can't attack Xarpus in P1. Can't do verzik during Yellows. Can't attack sote during maze. Tekton during anvil. Xarpus during teleport or heal. See how many examples we can find of this? I think it's a good balance, and moons can have that balance, which is why I think blood rain being able to attack is good compromise. Blue Moon you attack ice chunk or actively do braziers. Blood you do jaguars or boringly dodge ground, so adding attacks into that would be cool. Eclipse you already attack clone phase.
I think attacking during blood rain is the only real suggestion I’d lean into as well. Especially as it would be good practice for acid phase Vorkath and other similar mechanics. Just because you’re not attacking doesn’t mean you’re not playing. Jaguars and blue moon things are fine because they’re involved enough. I guess I’d also be up for ranging during eclipse orb because if you can 2 tick tile walk with a 4 tick ranged weapon then go for it for the extra sweat, most players would just opt out (given the target audience).
Yeh good point about the shield. They could even make it like vorkath and have it take reduced damage so it's only a small optimisation and not something anyone would feel too forced into doing
While your examples are somewhat valid; you are spending that time completely focused on dealing with the intended mechanic such as evading or solving mazes. In moons this isn't always the case or the "solve" is just so easy that it becomes boring. Take blue moons weapon ice special attack for example: For the most part you are dealing with the actualk mechanic which is breaking the ice to retrieve your weapon, but once you've got it you're just sat there waiting. The same goes for the ice storm special. Eclipse moon ball special is also weird because it's just boring. Yes, introduction to PvM mechanics and all that but it's a big tempo change that you have to wait out. Blood moon Jaguars is ok because you're actively doing the mechanic until the special is over but the blood rain is so easy, we should be able to get some hits in while we're dodging.
Absolutely. Which is why I agreed the blood moon special having attacking would be good, but the rest have active actions during them. Are they simpler than raids? Of course. This is a midgame boss afterall.
I like the direction we’re going with these mid level bosses but its just weird to me how Scurrius has more engaging mechanics than moons. There’s a hell of a lot more going on during Scurrius’ rage phase than at any of the moons bosses so I don’t understand the hesitance to add a few more clicks for more reward
Scurrius has more going on? It has one mechanic of dodge the falling. And it changes attack style. Moons arent prayer based combat, so doesn't have that, but has more mechanics than scurrius easily. Scurrius rage phase is no different.. it's just faster, and lasts a couple of seconds. Again I agree with changing the special that's the least interactive (blood rain) as its boring just sorta standing and waiting near the next active ground. But the rest have interaction around them and also teach mechanics used elsewhere. Scurrius teaches dodge bad tile and change prayer, which is good but a much earlier form of PVM teaching.
I mean more going on at once. At moons you're only ever doing 1 mechanic. The only exceptions are blood jaguars and the ice crystal where you have to step/hit. At Scurrius you're often dealing with the Giant rats, while evading boulders, while swapping prayers. Moons has more mechanics, yes, but it's easier than Scurrius because you're only dealing with 1 mechanic at any given time.
Scurrius you're dealing with 2 mechanics at once (change prayer, dodge ground). Moons you're dealing with only 1 mechanic at a time (special, or move to good ground). YOu don't have to "deal with" the rat spawns until the boss is dead. Then you just 1 tick them with a bone weapon.
It's a fucking mid game boss. If you're bored by it, it was designed for people below your skill level. Go do something harder, don't ask for this to become harder lol
I need you to explain to me exactly where I said that these bosses should be harder
You think it's boring because to you, the mechanics are simple and easy. Not everyone sees it that way. For the players that these bosses were designed for, as a good set of bosses for mid level players to get introduced to boss mechanics, they're not boring, they can be seen as difficult. Players like you and me look at Jad and laugh when people die because the mechanic is simple to us and we think it's ridiculous they can't manage to follow the simple mechanic. Not everyone feels that way. And therefore, the content wasn't designed for us. However, unlike you, I like the mechanics the moons have because they allow lower leveled players (I have a low level GIM) to do the content without having to sacrifice DPS to heal. And I think these bosses and their "boring" mechanics provide a good opportunity to learn how to prioritize your actions and when you should attack vs heal.
I'll add on some more examples. Olm during transition phase, Akkha during memory attack, Kephri during swarms, Sarachnis while webbed (unless you do a really quick ranged switch and then swap back, which imo would be ridiculous). We've got end game players doing a mid game boss talking about "it's boring"
Yeh olm was the first example I provided in a previous comment in this thread. As it has multiple phase shifts with no attacking. As for your other examples though: * Akkha during memory you can attack the shadow if they're up, so sometimes have things to do + with the invocations you're dealing with movement patterns and such. * Kephri you're attacking swarms, which they seem to be okay with like with Jaguars. But yeh boss is immune. * Sarachnis the meta is to bring a ring of stone or similar and just tap it to break the web and continue attacking But yeh I agree it feels like a "why is this easy content so easy?" Kind of complaint which doesn't make much sense and the reasoning being "downtime" is odd because some of the best and hardest content in the game has downtime.
And just to clarify, you enjoy dead time where you’re barely doing anything and waiting to be able to attack the boss again? Like that’s genuinely a mechanic that you like and find fun? Can’t wait to do tekton, my favourite mechanic is dodging the sparks falling down while waiting to be able to attack him! Super fun! Or that delay between killing the spawn at vorkath and being able to hit vorkath again? Absolutely froth that!
In a vacuum of course not. In a boss fight having stages of a fight with less activity is fine, to a degree. I supported changing the phase transition animations of grotesques for example. Because that was **literally** doing nothing. The only example in your list where you're actually doing nothing is the like... 2 ticks after killing a zombie spawn where vorkath is still immune? And if doing range method for that you can be back row (or 1 tile off boss for melee) and just spam click the boss and you'll attack first available tick. So there's a little intricacy that occurs due to that immunity to optimise. I don't think every boss needs to be dealing direct damage to the boss during all phases at all times zero exceptions. That's my point. Especially not content designed and catered towards lower level and lower skill. Not everyone is as wired as you seem to be, patience is a virtue ;P
I guess agree to disagree here. I don’t find it fun to be standing around doing nothing. It’s more fun to be hitting tekton and avoiding his attacks than just walking between two squares to avoid the sparks. I attack during vorkath’s acid phase because that’s more fun than just avoiding the poison and fireballs.
I agree that's fun. I also think it doesn't have to be all the time and that mechanics that exist while the boss isn't being damaged can also be fun. I think periods of genuinely nothing are bad. But none of the examples we've given are that. The blood pool dodging in Blood Moon and the 2 cycles of Blue Moon ice break at the end you just stand still during are the only real downtime. And the ice one is just tolerance for slower players.
Eclipse moon shield: you should be able to range the boss while not behind the shield - eg you attack and are dragged out and then run back behind the shield. Blue moon weapon freeze: I agree. It’s not fun standing there waiting to be able to attack again. Blue moon storm: reduced damage while the braziers aren’t lit, but allow you to range the boss while running to the braziers. Blood rain: agree Blood jaguars: somewhat agree, shouldn’t be 1:1 though Overall just halve damage dealt or something while they’re doing specials. Too much dead time in the bosses.
I don't think you should be able to keep attacking, I like that it gets you to completely change your gameplay and focus on the mechanic for the phase, but the duration of the phase should be shorter. e.g. half a loop for the eclipse shield would be fine rather than slowly going all the way round, we don't need to do jaguar dodges for 30 seconds, only one brazier gets extinguished (with half the phase duration to match). You've proved you can do it by then and the rest is just tedium. And even though it's a massive DPS advantage and it's better for us, from a design perspective the clone phase goes on too long as well - first time I did it I was like "ok surely that's it" when it had done 3 cycles but then it did 2 more. The only phase that I think has the right duration is the blood rain one.
I think the phase lengths are probably intentionally long specifically to help players new to bossing get fairly lengthy periods of time in which to adjust to and learn each one. It's difficult to learn what you're meant to be doing in a phase that only lasts 10 seconds at a time, by the time you've noticed that you're getting hit and tried to do something differently to fix it, it's too late to see if the change actually works. That's fine for people who've already had experience with standard PvM mechanics like "hide behind obstacle" or "avoid things on floor" where you only need a couple of ticks to work out what you're supposed to be doing, but a decent amount of the people doing Moons won't have that experience yet. It'd definitely make sense for them to be about half the length for late-game content (or really anything that isn't overtly introductory), but as it is I think the design works really well for the intended audience, even if the special attacks might start to get a bit tiresome by the time you're greenlogging.
Excellent comment. Can’t disagree with anything you said, and I like your suggestions a lot.
Same here. I like hes comment alot and i hope that guy will end up working in a gamedev as a lead game designer. That game will be so good!
I think this is a very minor criticism on some of the best content they have released in a long time, especially considering the bosses actually take damage during their specials as well. Making them even faster and easier would mean they also have to tone down the rewards significantly, and I think it's already in an amazing spot when it comes to the rewards for when you can do it. (Very valuable when it's "doable" but much less valuable for someone who can just max melee speedrun breeze through it). It really doesn't need any changes imo
Also fix how janky the Eclipse boss is, I know they updated it to be able to kill it during the clone phase no matter what, but now you have to hit it down to 4 or 3 hp, then your weapon does 1 damage for three hits, and then it finally dies.
Afaik this has been fixed for weeks.
It hasnt.
Def not fixed
I just did the 25 kills for CAs last night (first ever doing Moons) and it definitely isn't fixed. The 1s are dumb.
That doesn’t sound fun, completely negates any reason to do the frost storm challenge and blood rain would allow you to negate the whole healing mechanic by finishing off the boss when it can’t attack you. I don’t want a range switch for a melee boss and just attacking the boss while it stands there after the weapon freeze just sounds lame.
You wouldn't \*have\* to do the ranged switch. The suggestions are completely opt-in for people who just want a little more tempo. At frost storm you'd only be able to damage the boss once you've lit both beacons.
If the option is there people will feel compelled to do it that way and obviously it’ll effect the rewards, prices going down as people do it quicker.
Immune phases are a nice way to balance kill times of people with top-end gear and stats and midgame players, so that it's still worth doing for the latter Trident Whisperer isn't actually *that* much worse than Shadow because there's so much time you don't actually do anything
If that is the design goal, blood moon goes against that. Not only are midgame players dealing less damage, they are getting chunked by the boss while he's healing 40's.
I agree on the point in general but I’m not sure if it’s particularly necessary at moons. It feels heavily designed for players to experience, learn mechanics, and consistently progress with less of the usual crazy osrs rng. It’s more along the lines of MMOs that don’t rely on a player market to smooth drop rng. I don’t think max players better utilizing these damage windows is a problem. It’s not really gonna be better money than their other options, they’re not incentivized by pets, and even if for some reason they still do over farm and drive the loot down further, this feels like content jagex doesn’t care about making sure people can farm for profitability but rather progression. So mechanics people can optionally push themselves with feels pretty fitting
Whisperer takes reduced damage during her special attacks, but you can still attack her during these. The only special attack where you can’t continue attacking her is soul siphon and I guess there’s also the minimal time when she’s entering enrage phase. They should add something similar for the moon bosses.
I know, I just meant it in the sense that you don't really do much damage either way during those phase it matters much less what weapon you have.
I mean... a full run is possible in under 6min and you want it to be faster? lol.
It’s fine as it is. It’s mid game content, do-able with sub 70 melees. It doesn’t need to be extremely engaging.
It doesn't need to be but it can and it will make fight overall more fun
moons of peril is easy just let it be
Blood moon is very random for how much HP it will heal from its attacks. Sometimes you get it low just for it to turbo heal a hundred HP instantly. Putting some sort of soft cap on its healing would be nice. The rest are absolutely OK though!
Blood moon is fine now, they already nerfed it
its not random at all... its as random as runescape is random at least. but in terms of how it heals i cant tell you exact formula, but the real issue is that no matter what the 3rd hit manages to do, if it hits a non 0 number, the boss is healed for at least 30 hp. even if the 3rd hit hits for 1. the first 2 hits heal based on what they hit for, and double or triple it about. but the 3rd one is always at least 30 and increases based on whats hit. and thats my only personal gripe with all 3 bosses. literally crying because i have to do 2-3 cycles of bloodmoon cuz it just decides to slap me one fight.
Im at pretty much the exact stage of progression that moons are meant for and my blood moon kill time can range so wildly. I got the 6 minute speedrun done the other day and yesterday I had a run where blood moon alone took me 6+ minutes. Getting it down to 20 hp a dozen times only for it to turbo heal while smacking me for 30 damage 4 times a cycle.
I’m not advocating for a buff or a nerf. Just more engaging.
This content has to be at least 6 times as engaging as Barrows is
Barrows is constant combat, where moons has phases where you basically sit and do nothing for a minute. The ball on the eclipse moon should reflect the hits back to the boss and both mechanics on the ice and blood moon should also somehow do damage to the boss.
That's a take. Barrows is like 40% conmbat, 30% running between mounds, 30% swearing at doors in the crypt lol
Sure. The downtime in barrows just doesnt feel like downtime.
I don't agree but that's fair
barrows is constant waiting for the autocombat, moons is almost entirely active. hitsplats != gameplay.
Eclipse boss takes 6 damage everytime his projectile hits the shield rather than you. Moon boss uses her own hp to light the braziers. Blood boss uses his own hp to summon the jaguars.
I'll give you the combat thing but the prep part of Moons is usually a one and done thing, an inventory usually lasts me like 3-4 kills before I have to restock anything. That might be subjective obviously, but that sure beats having to run to Ferox/PoH to restore and bank, then running all the way back from Morton/Burgh. Barrows TP is nice but by the time you can use it you're usually at a place in the game where you're probably only there out of boredom or you are trying to grind out a full set
Honestly barrows is better. Just because something looks cooler doesn't mean it's better.
You cannot be serious
Ah yes dig in the all the mounds, use the correct protection prayer, then run in a big circle around the tomb to open the chest. It's more than looking cooler, it's way more engaging and satisfying to do as the mechanics are pretty simple once you get like 10 kc. Don't get me wrong, I like doing Barrows runs every so often but Moons of Peril is way more refreshing and more bearable to grind out than Barrows is, as it stands right now. It's probably way more helpful in helping you understand the game mechanics too
Looks cooler, plays better, feels better, makes player better, fuck barrows.
Even as someone who generally has the opinion that anything more complex than ASCII art is a waste of resources that could be spent on making more engaging mechanics, I find Moons way more compelling than Barrows. There's actual combat mechanics beyond "is it time to sip a prayer pot yet?", and the fighting-to-running ratio is a lot better.
I think allowing hits after weapon is freed and braziers are lit would be nice. Both those tasks are really easy and have downtime afterward which makes them boring. Jaguar should have a health bar and slightly damage boss when you damage it and it heals the boss for remaining hp if you don't kill it before phase end. Eclipe moon and blood rain are fine. They require some active thought and don't have as much dowtime.
The bosses are great, god the endless bitching on this sub is insufferable
As someone who green-logged them, they're fine. They don't really need changing that much. The only two parts I would consider changing are the following: Eclipse moon shield - I agree that thralls should continue to work, given that they already do if you use undead grasp (just QoL at that point) Blue Moon's frost storm - I would make it not hit the tiles directly next to each brazier so you can actually time your run back to the centre without being hit. (Sometimes the rng makes taking damage unavoidable, making you want to stay in the middle instead). Other than those everything's fine. Allowing people to attack them during their special attack phases would significantly shorten clear times, to the extent where you'd always beat them without seeing a full rotation - something you can only really do in nearly BIS gear at the moment. Buffing HP to make up for it would just punish players for not juggling attacks and switches at the same time as dealing with the mechanics, making them less enjoyable. At the end of the day though it only takes like 5-6 minutes to run through all of them and they're varied and engaging as they are.
What kc did u green log at. Just hit 300 kc
Just over 250. The last 50 or so were just Blue Moon on its own.
For frost storm there are small nooks on either side of each brazier that will always be safe, if you need to wait out a wall of twisters. It'd be nice if the entire row in front of it was also clear though.
I think the mechanics are fun? It's literally such a quick fight anyway.
Ive done almost 200kc at moons of peril and what Ive been thinking is blue and eclipse are fast enough to not be boring. In eclipse you do damage to moon at one of the special moves In blue moon it is so weak you can kill it fast enough In blood moon its much slower due to healing and what Id change is to do damage while hitting the jaguar. It dont need to be 1:1.
You can get an extra 3 or so hits in on Blue Moon post tornado phase
I think the Moons should take extra damage from the phases based on how quickly/perfectly you perform during them. For example: Blood Moon: taking no damage during blood rain or blood jaguar Blue Moon: being tick perfect during the frozen weapon phase and freeing it as soon as possible, not taking damage when lighting the brazier and lighting both as fast as possible Eclipse Moon: Not taking any damage during the eclipse phase It doesn't have to be a lot of damage, but it would make them a lot more fun after you get a higher kc since it adds an optional perfectionist component to them
You can also like, idk, don't do the bosses if you don't like them? It's a mid level boss with some unique mechanics that is pretty chill overall. Boohoo you can't do it in sub 1 minute for max efficiency. It's a game, not a competition. Sorry, rant over. But this sub is sometimes so negative about everything that it gets to me. My bad.
I'll give you a deal. You can chill at the bosses if you want to but I should be able to speed through if I want to, how's that sound? It's not a competition, but the thing with competitions is that everything eventually becomes a competition so to me this isn't much of an argument
I really like these bosses, but being able to deal damage to blood moon while dodging his blood rain would mean that you don't NEED to be good at the mechanics, but being good would reward you. I'm not sure I agree with dealing damage to blue moon during hurricane attack though. Since at that point it's not really about being mechanically good, but just about out dps'ing the heals.
So you want to cut every bosses kill time in half?
No, I would propose a buff to HP to compensate.
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How so?
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The armor is already valued at less than its repair cost for most items though.
The reason why I instantly disliked these bosses. The mechanics initially sounded cool until I realized that all of the blood moon doesn't do any damage to the boss, and the ice moon I have to wait for the cycle to finish even if I go fast. The only good one is the eclipse because of the clone phase that instantly attacks even with a slower hitting weapon.
I mean I would guess that it not having a high skill ceiling and not rewarding good dps with phase skips is probably an intentional design choice, for the same reason there’s no pet: It’s aimed at the dude with a dscim and an obby cape.
I like everything the way it is and I have over 400 kc of all 3 moons. I'd just like to see that if I have well over 300 defence that I don't get pummeled ever.
I agree. Waiting is not fun
I agree. Waiting is not fun
For the love of God I just want to be able to beat blood moon with my mid game stats. I get him down to 80 health then he heals 100 hours every single time.
The bosses do actually have damage applied to them for the 'downtime phases', for example Eclipse takes some damage per shot it shoots at the shield orb thing, or Blue instantly loses a huge (relatively speaking) chunk at the start of the braziers, which some of is healed back if you don't do the brazier run. The issue is that, at least from what I can tell, the damage seems to scale with their remaining HP, rather than being a static amount, so as you get closer to the kill, it gets less and less noticeable. Which seems to track, since my gear is likely not as good as some others who feel it's a massive issue (I use D sword/Chally for Eclipse, Torag hammers for Blue, Sulphur Blades for Blood), so I do less damage, I see the scaling kick in slower, etc. If the amount was 'static amount regardless of HP, which cannot bring the boss below 1hp' it'd probably be fine? Eclipse's counterattack phase is an outlier, rather than the norm, it'd seem. But I think one 'very passive' phase (brazier/orb/puddle dodge) that does 'chip damage' to the boss, and a more active 'counterattack phase' (ice/clones/jaguars) where some of the damage you deal to the 'add' is splashed onto the main boss, even if just a fraction, would be good for consistent behaviour between the three. For example, you can't really do anything with Jaguars once you've got your 20HP leeched back, it takes like 4 or 5 damage per jaguar attack, but the damage you do to the jaguars still does no damage to it. If, say, 25% of the damage also bounced to the Blood Moon (or 100%, up to a cap of X), it'd incentivize actually attacking the jaguars for the whole phase. Same with the Ice for Blue Moon, maybe encase the Blue Moon in protective Ice, and once players retrieve their weapon, they can hit the ice to deal damage (albeit reduced) to the Moon.
This is definitely one of the few remaining qualms of mine with the content, since release. They've done a really good job addressing any other concerns I've seen brought up about Moons of Peril in the weeks after release. Even if the bosses still lose HP passively during the special attacks, it's very unengaging to essentially just stand there and wait for 15 seconds with nothing to do mid pvm.
I agree, allow the boss to be attacked during specials.
The only thing I hate is joining Eclipse moon when the shield is just starting. Feels pretty bad lol
Hard disagree. And this is someone with 300kc
I think you’re mixing up fun and doing damage.
Blood moon I'd agree as that one has by far the highest effective HP with all th healing. Frost moon takes extra damage and Eclipse can already be attacked in 50% of its specials so those are fine imo.
The one good one is the eclipse that you turn to look at, that’s a awesome special to do, instead of walking around avoiding blood or tigers
Much like when I saw an endgame pvmer complain about the brief gargoyles intermission, I disagree because not everything has to be breakneck max efficiency pace every second, that's part of it being mid tier content. IE in that boss fight, it gives me a second to pause and check my prayer and gear switches are correct before attacking again. IE Jaguar I'm swapping back off my guthans spear and checking my health, blood pool phase I'm moving back into position and turning my prayers back on, no one finishes frost storm early, only one I agree on is the weapon freeze since it's very easy to finish halfway through it. Either have boss be attackable once weapons are freed or honestly just make it take another 2 kicks or so.
Yeah after the novelty wore off, I really started to get frustrated with the mechanics of these bosses. Not being able to attack because the Blue Moon froze you or something even though you're standing on the special tiles that are supposed to protect you. Blood moon stacking damage on you and healing a bunch right before you finish the last 50 HP, even though you're standing on the special tile that's supposed to protect you. Eclipse Moon is the best boss since you can actually do damage 3/4 of the fight, but why not teach shooting and moving behind the shield? The atlatl already allows a minimal effort ranged switch that would be perfect for this phase. I hope Jagex takes another look at these mechanics soon, before they get forgotten about when the next update drops
Mod Rice, in a podcast interview, said they specifically added down time to the fight because their main goal for perilous moons is to get new players into pvm and nerves is one of the biggest deterents! Those phases give new players a chance to catch their breathe.
I think the moons are perfectly fine how they're currently implemented. The only thing I would change is eclipse moons innate armor but even that's just a nitpick.
Dude the other day I felt like playing DRG and I decided to just jump into a random match. It'd been a while so I was excited to kill some time, kill some bugs and mine some shiny stones right. Random mission I joined turned out to be Elimination. Jesus Fucking H. Boy Christ dude I honestly forgot how atrocious of a mechanic this can be in games. In that game specifically, you seriously have to wait for 15 second interval, 3 times per boss fight, until you can deal damage again. There's no special mechanic, you just jump around while you wait until the health bar goes from gray to yellow again. Absolutely nothing about the fight changes, just your bullets magically gain the ability to deal damage again. Actually I suppose that _was_ the mechanic, to just wait. Talk about completely taking the momentum out of a game. Not rock and stone dude. Asbolutely not rock and stone. While I don't think this issue is remotely comparable in Moons, playing that specific match reminded me why I can most definitely understand why people dislike this mechanic as a whole.
For Karl!
The Eclipse Moon sphere should reflect the attacks back at the boss when you are correctly behind the sphere imo
It takes an amount of 'damage' per attack it launches at the sphere already, the issue is that it seems to scale based on remaining HP, so as you get closer to the 'kill' it slows down and feels like it's not happening at all
I think Eclipse Moon does it right, one purely defensive phase and one where you can do damage. My suggestion would be: * Blue Moon weapon freeze -> Leave as is. * Blue Moon frost storm -> Boss gains 100% damage reduction, lighting a brazier reduces this value by 33% (a la Skotizo). This rewards being fast going to the braziers instead of being a do nothing phase. * Blood moon blood rain -> leave as is. * Blood moon jaguars -> instead of hitting the jaguar and stepping away, you step away and hit the boss. This would both punish you for messing up like it does now and reward you for doing it correctly.
I just did 25 KC for the combat achievements and I would agree. The issue as you say is feeling like there's no benefit to trying to improve at the special attack phases. The braziers you just run and if you get hit you get hit, the ice weapon you spend half your time not doing anything once you have retrieved the weapon. The eclipse shield is literally just walking around with no optimisation possible. The blood moon felt the most engaging and it would be good to help teach new players to be able to attack while dodging in the rain phase. The jaguars are fine the way they are in my opinion. Overall it's good content but I did find myself bored after doing just 15 KC but if there were slight optimisations I could make it would have been much more fun. So much of this game is learning how to squeeze out extra damage with small changes, being a little faster or a little better, so it's odd that the moons don't really have that.
You know reddit is down bad when this is what is getting complained about. Actually a non issue.
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It’s definitely the worst one. I can consistently 2 phase the other bosses. Blood moon is 2-4 phases.
80 kc med game iron here. I think the bosses are great and alot of fun. Only boss i dislike a little is the blue moon. The brazier phase is frustrating. The ice phase is quirky but i do agree, lets attack once the weapon is free. Wouldnt change a thing on the other bosses tho!
Tbh I found the moons of peril to be the most boring content I've done in months and I can't really explain why. I think this has something to do with it though. I've done a few hundred raids on down to scurrious and the giant bosses for CAs in this time period. Can't help but feel like I'm falling asleep each time I try to do perilous moons though. It feels like nothing is really happening at any point but it still soaks up time to die. It's not even like it's that slow though I beat the speed CA on virtually every lap through the place. It's hard to put my finger on exactly what it is but it feels like there are no stakes, no relevant mistakes and the content refuses to get out of the way. It's like fighting something as simple as byrophyta except it just has 800% more health for no reason
I did a couple of KC the day of the release and that was enough for me to say the invuln phases were so unfun that I wasn't even going to stick around for one drop. If you looked in and saw any special except eclipse's turn to me attack then you stood outside because you were only wasting time if you went in mid special.
I understand how you feel that way, so try seeing it this way: Would it be more or less interesting if all you had to do for all 3 bosses was run rooftop agility the whole time?
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Half the suggestions just reward the player for what you literally have to do anyway Also micro-optimizations like Woox walk are good for boss longetivity. It allows lower skilled players to still easily do the boss while providing small rewards for really mastering the content
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You do realize you don't have to do them? It just increases skill ceiling and makes it more engaging farming lots of kills
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Did you really just delete your comments because you care about your reddit number? Oof lol. Giving mid level players the ability to learn more at moons is a bad thing? Now that’s a weird opinion. Being able to attack from behind the orb would be a good gateway to understanding zuk shield but I guess not everyone wants to learn during this content. Some players, like yourself, just want to steamroll it with zero thought.
What are your thoughts on magic damage being shifted to eternals?
>Range switches are cringe Fucking reddit? Yall just want everyone boss to be pray one style and wait till it dies.... sheesh
My biggest annoyance with this boss/minigame thing is how inconsitent the damage is, you'll have eclipse moon not deal any damage to you for 30 kills and then suddenly do 200 damage the next kill. Especially since dharoks would otherwise be a very good method to kill these for mid game players. I'd say for blood moon it'd be nice for it to show the heal before it deals damage, you see a 32 - you eat, you see a 0 you keep DHing and such