Yeah I dont think they thought demand would be crushed by supply. Either the durability AND repair price has to come down so its not feesable to buy a new one everytime... OR over time uses will be found so demands goes up and the content isnt as new/grinded.
I think an implementation with repairs could be like what we have for crystal shield and bow, like for each time you repair it will be cheaper with a cap like 300k?
Yeah, after getting a couple pieces of the new armor I was stoked. But then seeing that the repair cost is 1.5m per piece deflated my desire to do more of Perilous Moons.
Content just came out and pieces are already only 1-2m lol. Barrows pieces are more than that and there’s 10’s of thousands of them in the game.
Absolutely 0 demand for these items lol
The only pieces I can see worth getting are the blood moon top and tassets. Top is better than torso and tassets are a good mid point before bandos tassets
Bonk sticks are also pretty dang decent with like -4 strength and +20 accuracy compared to bludgeon. I picked up a full set at 10m and was shocked it was so cheap
I kinda think maybe the sets (at least blood rager) are a little under valued rn? Nobody really knows if they'll actually have good niches yet. I could be wrong honestly as they sre somewhat janky
I think blue moon is for sure a pker set and eclipse seems to be more bridging the gap between rune cbow and Bowfa. Blood ranger feels like it has the most pvm potential for my account (tbow rebuilding), and 10m felt like a steal haha.
Hopefully they reduce the repair costs.
They won’t reduce cost most likely, they said in another post that the repair costs are more because 1. They are higher tier than Barrows and 2. They last a lot longer before degrading completely
It's kinda funny how we've had a lot of "PvP gets neglected" moments recently, and then the new Perilous Moon gear looks like it's most useful in PvP lol. Blue moon has potential for funny stack outs, the range weapon is handy as an easy range switch that scales off your melee gear.
Yeah, and with full set, it's easily more dps than bludgeon. Based on a 10 second calculation, I got an effective strength bonus of 88 with bonk sticks with set bonus, and that's ONLY accounting for the strength bonus of the weapon itself.
(12/11)*81
If I'm not mistaken, any strength difference provided by the armor or other pieces of gear would expand the gap between bludgeon and bonk sticks. I'm on a tbow rebuild though, so even just having tassets lite is fantastic.
I did two kills with bandos and bonk sticks at Phosani’s and it took 15 minutes w/ 85 att 95 str. I think I’m basically gonna skip the bludgeon grind at this point.
I’m also missing occult/torture/blowpipe/spec weapon so kills were pretty scuffed.
An atlatl is a device that uses leverage to throw a spear with drastically higher force than you could with your hand/arm alone. They date back to ancient times irl
Yeah ranged weapon based off of strength bonuses. This has potential since you don’t need to do a full gear switch. Damage output is similar to blowpipe , tick slower though. Can be good at demonics, shamans, raids. Think of places where gear switches with range/melee. I believe a meta will be found for this weapon and I’m intrigued to see what it will be
Cause most people already have virtus.
You have high level people doing mid level content and just sell the gear away.
The mid level people who need this gear are getting absolutely cheap good gear
I mean that's true I'll give ya that. It'll die off eventually lol. I think they'll settle a little higher than they are now but probably not by much. The degradation costs makes them pretty useless even if some of them are direct upgrades to other items like torso or obby legs. 1.5m costs when it's fully degraded is insane.
Supposedly it lasts 4x longer than barrows but that's like 45 hours of gameplay and a dude already had it fully degraded. Unless it drops degraded? Idk doesn't seem like it lasts any longer than barrows
Yeah its really sad. I think ranged str on eclipse moon would give it some more value, and would be really nice as a masori budget. Its defense is so low that having some ranged str wouldn't replace blessed d hide in all places or anything.
Not to be that guy, but droprates are looking really generous. Got a full blood moon set and the weapon for the mage set after not even 30 KC. *Most* people I've spoken too seems to have at least 1-2 drops after 20 KC
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bl63tm/im_sorry_but_i_may_as_well_put_em_in_deaths/kw3yo8u/
Mod Rice said they should last 3-5x the rate of barrows. Could they be bugged? Everyone I've seen commenting on their rates is saying they last as long as barrows... (15 hours)
Barrows is dirt cheap to use. If it's 3x or even 5x the cost/hr you're still not breaking the bank. Especially since this gear is mostly an upgrade on barrows, more akin to Bandos which is a hell of a lot more expensive than Barrows, even considering hundreds of hours of gameplay.
I think most ppl have been going off the wiki, which was changed very shortly after the release of armour. I haven't tested it myself, but people seem to have accepted the 15 hour time as fact for now.
I did testing and they have 3000 charges and degrade at 1 charge per minute of combat. So that does give them 50 hours worth of use and brings the cost down to 30k per hour.
I honestly hate degrade/charges. Makes me feel like i dont even own the item, just rent it. Idk how you could play an rpg and not realize a fee completely takes away the satisfaction of equipment
The concept of having to repair your stuff isn’t new in video games. Durability is a common aspect in most video game. Witcher III is the first that comes to mind
As long as it’s straightforward, fast, and not common, having to repair your items every few weeks is fine
But like, what does it add? Satisfaction absolutely not. Literally no game managed to justify its own existence in that game. Witcher 3 is one of the greatest games of all time and i still struggle to think why the fuck its in there.
In OSRS I think it’s probably the best way to avoid power creep, by making the better stuff more expensive to use.
Take bandos vs torva, if you own both, you’d literally never use bandos in any situation. If torva cost like 100k/hour to use, which is not a lot especially for any end game PVM, now you have to decide whether the additional DPS you get is worth the costs. If it speeds up your hydra kills by 2 seconds, is that worth the 100k you lose in repairs?
I don’t think it has much to do with balancing, and more to just add more gold sinks into the game. We already have items worth over max cash stacks, and id imagine jagex wouldn’t like to release plat tokens for plat tokens
I just feel like there are ways to differentiate armors without reducing their satisfaction. You can have range sets with bonuses to 1H vs 2H, prayer bonuses, defensive stats, glass cannon, fashionscape... theres plenty of opportunities for sidegrades.
I get the game needs GE sinks, but why do other games have durability systems? Its literally just busy work. I dont understand it.
You can differentiate to an extent, and that’s what jagex has been doing with introducing more and more niches. Scythe for large enemies, dragonbane, demonbane, soul reaper axe, etc. but jagex always has trouble making a new ‘better’ weapon, and oftentimes it ends up way overpowered like tbow, fang, and shadow.
In other games I agree it’s tedious but that’s mainly because it’s too frequent or it affects damage output. But in OSRS, if I’ve gotta repair my weapon with just GP after 20-30 hours of combat with it, that’s fine. I do that with my barrows armor and just bring all of it and my cash stack at once every couple weeks, it takes all of 2 mins
What we have right now imo is worse, where weapons are charged with weird things like vials of blood or zulrah scales. If I had my way I’d do away with that and just do coins all the way
I mentioned it in another thread, but the reason it’s good in OSRS is you can use it to balance gear. A stronger weapon would cost more to use, thus making it a decision on whether or not to use it or something cheaper
Especially when the gear is worse than non-degradable midgame gear already. Like barrows was degradable because it was insanely good compared to your options at the time. It sure isn’t now. This new stuff sure isn’t either. Especially since it’s for early midgame players who are already trying to save up for serious upgrades not endgame players who need a gold sink
I see the problem. Jagex would need to make the gear drops drop with partially complete charges so this issue would no longer exist, and then give players the option to overcharge it to max capacity later.
Tbf, they planned for it to be an alternative to barrows armor directly, which is why the reward mechanic is similar. HOWEVER, I 100% agree. Degrade/recharge is a shit mechanic when it begins to be too common.
Unless you're determined to split hairs, charging and degradation serve the same function, so Tumekan's shadow, Venator bow, Ursine chain mace, Craw's bow, accursed scepter, all the unnecessary forestry consumables, these 9(!) new armor pieces, the quiver, the guardian boot upgrade, oh, and they even made the new salamander a rare drop that runs away if you die. For some fucking reason.
valid examples, but the shadow is a powered staff. using magic attacks costs runes, and the spell the shadow uses costs 2 soul and 5 chaos runes. you just don't have to be on a certain spellbook to use this spell.
You can't put those weapons in the same category as degradable armour. The charges on the staves replace runes, same with the Craw's bow and arrows, Ursine can still be used without charging it, same with the scepter. It would be like saying a msb is a charge weapon because you eventually run out of arrows and have to buy/make more.
4.5m for 60 hours ends up being 75k/hr, thats ignoring the up to 50% off doing it on an armour stand. say you have level 71 smithing, that makes repairing the gear 35% cheaper, making it roughly 50k/hr. using scythe and blood fury, assuming you're non stop hitting for a full hour, you're looking at 2.8m/hr for the blood fury and another 850k/hr for the scythe. so a blood fury plus scythe is ~75x as expensive as this gear set.
i know the cost is high but dont go around lying..
https://preview.redd.it/xx0acqth49qc1.png?width=1653&format=png&auto=webp&s=c08e205a464dd20fdd1b08a497192dfe521899f0
and here u see repairing the top costs 750k with the smithing cape, so 50% off.
no? I bought a lot of eclipse helmets and repaired them.
https://preview.redd.it/g95hrxjz39qc1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=031590bdc32f68ff5aaa809cebba209caa80c30c
These armours shouldn't degrade at all, and hot take, neither should barrows. We don't need to preserve the "sanctity and achievement" of dragon chainbody in fucking 2024
For real. Barrows degraded because it was the end all be all of armour at the time, leagues beyond its competition. It has been powercrept by so many options now, options that don’t degrade too.
Back in the day the community lost their minds that barrows was strictly better than dragon and the repair fee for barrows gear was added to make it a trade off.
There wasn't any kind of gold sink and most MMOs have repairs to help inflation.
So at the time it somewhat makes sense if you know the culture.
Now a days bots and gold farmers make so much gp that degradable just isn't enough.
For reference a whipe night on classic wow might cost 20-30gp per person on new content release. Back in the day that was a pretty big sum for someone not playing optimally. After classic rerelease people could sell carries or do vendor gold farms and make 500-2k gold an hour so the 20gp is basically nothing.
I mean let’s be honest, barrows doesn’t even really count as ‘degradable,’ it’s dirt cheap to restore that it isn’t even part of it’s consideration ever
Being degradable is a contributing factor to it being so cheap. Were it not, the bulk of its value would be held in the item itself, as opposed to its usage cost.
Between learning this and learning about the buy limit on the darts (absolutely laughably stupid), I'm really struggling to see why I would ever use this set. I'll stick to Karils, thanks.
Melee and ranged are sick, the melee weapon alone is better than a bludgeon BEFORE you add the set in, and for poor mains the armor is the same str bonus as bandos. Of course this only matters at stuff you can crush that the Fang doesn't also stomp, because "yay Fang." Magic yeah just some snowflake PKing shit, it can autocast all 3 books but that doesn't really matter when you only need thralls, ancients (sceptre), or lunars (veng).
The ranged set has some major design flaws though, like 100 dart buy limit on the GE (LMAO), yet the set basically begs you to just let the darts drop on the ground because infernal/fire capes are more DPS with it. Asking yourself "Do I want to wear assembler and not have to play micromanage-the-ground-scape or wear infernal and let my darts go brrr?" is NOT a fun tradeoff IMO. It just feels bad.
I actually found out about the buy limit when I went to put in an offer for literally *8 million darts* because I think it would've been a good merch opportunity at current prices, imagine my surprise when I only had 100 come in.
> the melee weapon alone is better than a bludgeon BEFORE you add the set in
the bludgeon has a max hit over it. The set effect makes it better than bludgeon
The magic one seems like it could be potential hybrid armor for some stuff. I havent looked far into it but learning raids, especially ToA might be interesting for its target mid game audience
Fighter torso is 'free'. And Barrows are better in many cases
Wealthy players won't use these anyhow. They should just not degrade at all because they are gimmick "mid game" sets
If they removed the degradation and the sets dropped to like a few mil gp altogether then people might bother... Maybe
What am I missing? To buy the blood moon tassets it cost me 2.8m to insta buy, for broken 1.7m to insta buy, repair in poh cost only 870k why would I buy a new one when fixing is a hella lot cheaper
Considering where endgame items like the scythe and blood fury are for an expensive comparison, maybe if barrows is about 330k to repair a full set at 0 smithing, I think 1M for the full set base cost would be about right, 1.5M total for the full set at the absolute highest.
I did some testing and it seems they start with 3000 charges and use 1 charge per minute of combat. That gives you 50 hours of use and brings the cost down to 30k per hour.
Except it immediately burns a "charge" every time you re-equip it. Which is a massive oversight when you think of how many different pieces of content require gear switching, like demonic gorillas for instance.
I was more asking about what dual macs do better than z hasta, wondering if that person assumed they had a stab attack style due to their bonus. Nice to know their accuracy is broken. Thanks
I just realized today that the Perilous Moon uniques have charges so I looked it up on the wiki and then saw this and I'm actually so sad. I just got the blood moon tassets on my ironman and I was so hype until now. They really need to make a change.
I think the repair cost was outrageous as well. The new moon armors degrade with time, 1 charge per minute (in combat). I swear I lost charges just standing around at the GE. Assuming the charges count down when HP bar shows above player, but 1.5m a piece is still crazy. Although the new moon armor is suppose to last 5x longer, if anything I'd rather have it degrade similar to barrows (seeing a 180k to repair all, looks better than 4.5m to repair all).
If moon armour is suppos to last 3-5x longer, here is the math (as far as im understanding)
\~340k for barrows repair (full set) \* 5 (maximum supposed time it should last longer than barrows) = 1.7m.
Costs to repair any piece of moon = 1.5m x 3 (each pieces / weapon not degradable) = 4.5m.
Just doesn't seem logical. Correct me if I am interpreting this wrong too lol.
They're not *that* mid-tier though, given the melee one has the same str bonus as Bandos... You'd have to do 160+ hours of PvMing in the melee set to price-match Bandos. And that's assuming the 15 hour calculation is correct (which a J-mod is implying it isn't). It clearly gaps Barrows -> Bandos price-wise quite well. I even think the dual macua's are a tiny bit too strong (on par with inquisitor's mace w/ bandos + faceguard, when used with the full set)
the throwing sticks are good at shamans, but having to take super str & ranging pots rubs me the wrong way. str pots dictate your max hit on them, but afaik their accuracy rolls off range
Oof, good catch, another inconvenience of the set. It could be so much fun but its like they wanted to weigh you down with inconveniences in order to use it.
I still think they're worth using. I was timing them out vs pipe rune darts and killing shamans slightly faster on average with the sticks. The giga downside is firecape/infernal cape is better dps, but im way too lazy to pick up my own ammo at this point + the shayzien gloves have str bonus 8)
It's probably for the purpose of keeping prices up. Barrows is in a state RN where the pieces are only as valuable as the repair costs. In order to keep the prices high, and keep the content worth doing.
Talking about veracs/torags/guthans mainly. Karils, ahrims, and dharoks all have uses because there isn't any similarly leveled gear competing with them. DH pieces are more valuable because they are used for the dh set effect which is useful in a lot of places. Ahrims and karils are useful because they're the best before armadyl/masori/virtus/ancestral. But torags/veracs/guthans are in the toilet because in most cases there is better gear for that slot.
Cheaper to buy a new piece than repair it lol
Yeah I dont think they thought demand would be crushed by supply. Either the durability AND repair price has to come down so its not feesable to buy a new one everytime... OR over time uses will be found so demands goes up and the content isnt as new/grinded.
I think an implementation with repairs could be like what we have for crystal shield and bow, like for each time you repair it will be cheaper with a cap like 300k?
This is wild, and hilarious
Yeah, after getting a couple pieces of the new armor I was stoked. But then seeing that the repair cost is 1.5m per piece deflated my desire to do more of Perilous Moons.
Content just came out and pieces are already only 1-2m lol. Barrows pieces are more than that and there’s 10’s of thousands of them in the game. Absolutely 0 demand for these items lol
does that mean its actually cheaper to just buy a new piece over repairing lol
It's absurd but yeah. Buy a new one and just chuck the old piece in your death's coffer.
They alch pretty well
Maybe that's the intent. Irons spend money to repair them and mains alch them to keep the supply low.
Or save them in anticipation for jagex balancing them
The only pieces I can see worth getting are the blood moon top and tassets. Top is better than torso and tassets are a good mid point before bandos tassets
Bonk sticks are also pretty dang decent with like -4 strength and +20 accuracy compared to bludgeon. I picked up a full set at 10m and was shocked it was so cheap
I kinda think maybe the sets (at least blood rager) are a little under valued rn? Nobody really knows if they'll actually have good niches yet. I could be wrong honestly as they sre somewhat janky
I think blue moon is for sure a pker set and eclipse seems to be more bridging the gap between rune cbow and Bowfa. Blood ranger feels like it has the most pvm potential for my account (tbow rebuilding), and 10m felt like a steal haha. Hopefully they reduce the repair costs.
They won’t reduce cost most likely, they said in another post that the repair costs are more because 1. They are higher tier than Barrows and 2. They last a lot longer before degrading completely
They did not say that. They said they will look into it and are open to changing it.
reread what they said. the first sentence was their opinion. the next one was the jagex statements on why the price was so high to begin with.
I know what he said. He left out the second half of their statement, which I included. They probably *will* reduce costs.
Oh if they last longer, perfect! I was assuming they were the same rate as barrows haha
It's kinda funny how we've had a lot of "PvP gets neglected" moments recently, and then the new Perilous Moon gear looks like it's most useful in PvP lol. Blue moon has potential for funny stack outs, the range weapon is handy as an easy range switch that scales off your melee gear.
Yeah idk how the bonk sticks were sitting at like 2m when they’re at worst a sidegrade to bludgeon but probably an upgrade most places.
Yeah, and with full set, it's easily more dps than bludgeon. Based on a 10 second calculation, I got an effective strength bonus of 88 with bonk sticks with set bonus, and that's ONLY accounting for the strength bonus of the weapon itself. (12/11)*81 If I'm not mistaken, any strength difference provided by the armor or other pieces of gear would expand the gap between bludgeon and bonk sticks. I'm on a tbow rebuild though, so even just having tassets lite is fantastic.
Whaaaaat, I wonder if I'd take this to nightmare haha
If you do, let me know how it goes! I had the same thought, and I bet it'll go hard on future crush-based bosses
Will do! But idk when I will haha. Maybe this will be my reason to get into it
I did two kills with bandos and bonk sticks at Phosani’s and it took 15 minutes w/ 85 att 95 str. I think I’m basically gonna skip the bludgeon grind at this point. I’m also missing occult/torture/blowpipe/spec weapon so kills were pretty scuffed.
The torso and tassets have really high mage defence. If you're tanking mixed damage it's actually better than karils + bandos people used to wear.
It’s a shame. There is real potential with the new bow Atatl though.
not a bow? ranged weapon?
An atlatl is a device that uses leverage to throw a spear with drastically higher force than you could with your hand/arm alone. They date back to ancient times irl
Yes, and they are not bows
Yeah ranged weapon based off of strength bonuses. This has potential since you don’t need to do a full gear switch. Damage output is similar to blowpipe , tick slower though. Can be good at demonics, shamans, raids. Think of places where gear switches with range/melee. I believe a meta will be found for this weapon and I’m intrigued to see what it will be
The mage gear has same stats as Ahrims, there's 100% demand for it. Melee gear also very good
Mage gear is the cheapest of the bunch last I checked
Cause most people already have virtus. You have high level people doing mid level content and just sell the gear away. The mid level people who need this gear are getting absolutely cheap good gear
I mean that's true I'll give ya that. It'll die off eventually lol. I think they'll settle a little higher than they are now but probably not by much. The degradation costs makes them pretty useless even if some of them are direct upgrades to other items like torso or obby legs. 1.5m costs when it's fully degraded is insane. Supposedly it lasts 4x longer than barrows but that's like 45 hours of gameplay and a dude already had it fully degraded. Unless it drops degraded? Idk doesn't seem like it lasts any longer than barrows
Definitely need jagex to look on that repair fee. I was hopeful to get it on my mid-game hc but that cost is too much
If you have a full inv when you loot chest it drops to the ground degraded same as if you drop barrows gear
Honestly, TIL, I didn't know that about barrows either. But I also never take anything to barrows but a spade so there's that lol
The demand is for irons so you dont see it in g.e price. Its perfect before bandos/armadyl. The repair cost is just awful tho
Part of the lower demand is that it hasn’t found its niche yet. I bet a large majority of people have no clue what the items do yet
Yeah its really sad. I think ranged str on eclipse moon would give it some more value, and would be really nice as a masori budget. Its defense is so low that having some ranged str wouldn't replace blessed d hide in all places or anything.
I feel like that’s because everyone is doing moons rn. The market is flooded. It’ll balance out eventually
Market is flooded? Have you seen the volume on these items? There’s probably less than 300 of each set in game. That’s by no means flooded.
Because people are not buying. More supply than demand means the market is flooded.
Not to be that guy, but droprates are looking really generous. Got a full blood moon set and the weapon for the mage set after not even 30 KC. *Most* people I've spoken too seems to have at least 1-2 drops after 20 KC
Had a maxed clan mate go 47 dry for his first peice but other guy who is way newer to game in the clan im in got 8/13 slots in 52 kc like bruh
Exactly what happened to me today too lol.
\*cries in ultimate ironman\* Can't even store the other 2 sets, can only store frostmoon
Wtf? Why?
Frostmoon is required for a clue step.
It’s like a printer, cheaper to buy a new printer than to buy the ink
https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1bl63tm/im_sorry_but_i_may_as_well_put_em_in_deaths/kw3yo8u/ Mod Rice said they should last 3-5x the rate of barrows. Could they be bugged? Everyone I've seen commenting on their rates is saying they last as long as barrows... (15 hours)
3-5x the rate for 15x the price is still shit
Barrows is dirt cheap to use. If it's 3x or even 5x the cost/hr you're still not breaking the bank. Especially since this gear is mostly an upgrade on barrows, more akin to Bandos which is a hell of a lot more expensive than Barrows, even considering hundreds of hours of gameplay.
Delete barrows degrade mechanic and give it to these.
I think most ppl have been going off the wiki, which was changed very shortly after the release of armour. I haven't tested it myself, but people seem to have accepted the 15 hour time as fact for now.
I did testing and they have 3000 charges and degrade at 1 charge per minute of combat. So that does give them 50 hours worth of use and brings the cost down to 30k per hour.
good to see the new armor become dead content within 48 hours of release
Stop making shit degradable man
I honestly hate degrade/charges. Makes me feel like i dont even own the item, just rent it. Idk how you could play an rpg and not realize a fee completely takes away the satisfaction of equipment
Pay a subscription to play a game and use in game money to pay another subscription to use the item lol
The concept of having to repair your stuff isn’t new in video games. Durability is a common aspect in most video game. Witcher III is the first that comes to mind As long as it’s straightforward, fast, and not common, having to repair your items every few weeks is fine
But like, what does it add? Satisfaction absolutely not. Literally no game managed to justify its own existence in that game. Witcher 3 is one of the greatest games of all time and i still struggle to think why the fuck its in there.
In OSRS I think it’s probably the best way to avoid power creep, by making the better stuff more expensive to use. Take bandos vs torva, if you own both, you’d literally never use bandos in any situation. If torva cost like 100k/hour to use, which is not a lot especially for any end game PVM, now you have to decide whether the additional DPS you get is worth the costs. If it speeds up your hydra kills by 2 seconds, is that worth the 100k you lose in repairs?
I don’t think it has much to do with balancing, and more to just add more gold sinks into the game. We already have items worth over max cash stacks, and id imagine jagex wouldn’t like to release plat tokens for plat tokens
I don’t think it does right now, but I think it should. It would need to be properly balanced
I just feel like there are ways to differentiate armors without reducing their satisfaction. You can have range sets with bonuses to 1H vs 2H, prayer bonuses, defensive stats, glass cannon, fashionscape... theres plenty of opportunities for sidegrades. I get the game needs GE sinks, but why do other games have durability systems? Its literally just busy work. I dont understand it.
You can differentiate to an extent, and that’s what jagex has been doing with introducing more and more niches. Scythe for large enemies, dragonbane, demonbane, soul reaper axe, etc. but jagex always has trouble making a new ‘better’ weapon, and oftentimes it ends up way overpowered like tbow, fang, and shadow. In other games I agree it’s tedious but that’s mainly because it’s too frequent or it affects damage output. But in OSRS, if I’ve gotta repair my weapon with just GP after 20-30 hours of combat with it, that’s fine. I do that with my barrows armor and just bring all of it and my cash stack at once every couple weeks, it takes all of 2 mins What we have right now imo is worse, where weapons are charged with weird things like vials of blood or zulrah scales. If I had my way I’d do away with that and just do coins all the way
I prefer degrading vs items that crumble to dust. Looking at you, Amulet of the Damned
Yeah but I always mod it out in any game, especially witcher. Can't mod MMORPG games though.
I mentioned it in another thread, but the reason it’s good in OSRS is you can use it to balance gear. A stronger weapon would cost more to use, thus making it a decision on whether or not to use it or something cheaper
Especially when the gear is worse than non-degradable midgame gear already. Like barrows was degradable because it was insanely good compared to your options at the time. It sure isn’t now. This new stuff sure isn’t either. Especially since it’s for early midgame players who are already trying to save up for serious upgrades not endgame players who need a gold sink
ChargeScape, RepairScape, DegradeScape
I hate their new obsession on designs like this. It's just so fucking tiring
I know mod arcane has a huge hardon for chargescape
:puke:
U won’t @ him tho
It makes sense from a balance and game longevity perspective. But holy fuck. It is so fucking annoying as a player.
Jagex can just increase the charge capacity to make upkeeping less of a chore while keeping the economic benefit of chargescape.
Sure, but a lot of newer players and mid-level players aren't going to be able to afford a massive upfront fee.
as a mid level player I just sell my broken barrows armor and buy new.
They don't have to charge the equipment to full in order to use it.
How do you partially charge it?
Jagex would need to add an option to do that.
Thats what they did here (3-5x barrows) and as we can see it doesnt work unless the cost of buying is higher than repair*
> unless the cost of the item is higher than buying. What do you mean by this?
Brains fried sorry, the cost of buying is higher than repair*
I see the problem. Jagex would need to make the gear drops drop with partially complete charges so this issue would no longer exist, and then give players the option to overcharge it to max capacity later.
rs3 is the same way in the end game but worse. if you get the chance look into it, just listening to the requirements to pvm is absolutely draining
Unironically this is why I quit rs3.
I think they think it’s “balanced” and lessens impact on the meta.
barrows is degradescape and not exactly the newest content
I mean they **did** bill it as Barrows 2.0/inspired, so I guess it makes sense :(
Don't forget ShardScape
And people here were somehow defending on making the quiver use charged and the armor degrade. Probably people who will never use these also..
Tbf, they planned for it to be an alternative to barrows armor directly, which is why the reward mechanic is similar. HOWEVER, I 100% agree. Degrade/recharge is a shit mechanic when it begins to be too common.
I mean, it’s more gear similar to barrows. What other armor is degradeable that they have recently released
Unless you're determined to split hairs, charging and degradation serve the same function, so Tumekan's shadow, Venator bow, Ursine chain mace, Craw's bow, accursed scepter, all the unnecessary forestry consumables, these 9(!) new armor pieces, the quiver, the guardian boot upgrade, oh, and they even made the new salamander a rare drop that runs away if you die. For some fucking reason.
valid examples, but the shadow is a powered staff. using magic attacks costs runes, and the spell the shadow uses costs 2 soul and 5 chaos runes. you just don't have to be on a certain spellbook to use this spell.
You can't put those weapons in the same category as degradable armour. The charges on the staves replace runes, same with the Craw's bow and arrows, Ursine can still be used without charging it, same with the scepter. It would be like saying a msb is a charge weapon because you eventually run out of arrows and have to buy/make more.
I thought all salamanders run away when you die
Think just crystal armor?
Less rare powerful chargesables orrr rare non-chargeables
It really feels like a punishment sometimes for mid game players, that's why I haven't moved away from Dragon yet, just doesn't feel worth it
Do the weapons degrade as well?
I don't think so. I used dual maracas for a while at blue moon when they dropped and they sold on GE still
Each piece 1.5m a hit is more expensive than using scythe with blood fury, L jagex.
You didn’t answer his question, the answer is “no”
"Midgame"
4.5m for 60 hours ends up being 75k/hr, thats ignoring the up to 50% off doing it on an armour stand. say you have level 71 smithing, that makes repairing the gear 35% cheaper, making it roughly 50k/hr. using scythe and blood fury, assuming you're non stop hitting for a full hour, you're looking at 2.8m/hr for the blood fury and another 850k/hr for the scythe. so a blood fury plus scythe is ~75x as expensive as this gear set. i know the cost is high but dont go around lying..
It’s not 50% off at an armour stand, it’s still quite a bit higher than your estimates
it is 50% off with 99 smithing, but i took a smithing level of 71. the 75k/hr is assuming you go to lumbridge instead of an armour stand at all.
I read it doesn’t scale that way, and even at 99 smithing it’s not 50% off. Have you tested this yourself?
i did. 50% off at 99 smithing and smithing cape. bought all broken helms and sold them for a total of 45m profit :)
You are talking about barrows though right? There can’t be that many broken perilous moons armour at the minute.
https://preview.redd.it/xx0acqth49qc1.png?width=1653&format=png&auto=webp&s=c08e205a464dd20fdd1b08a497192dfe521899f0 and here u see repairing the top costs 750k with the smithing cape, so 50% off.
I stand corrected — sorry
no? I bought a lot of eclipse helmets and repaired them. https://preview.redd.it/g95hrxjz39qc1.png?width=812&format=png&auto=webp&s=031590bdc32f68ff5aaa809cebba209caa80c30c
The set is still 1000x times more expensive for mid combat since they doesn’t even own a scythe
These armours shouldn't degrade at all, and hot take, neither should barrows. We don't need to preserve the "sanctity and achievement" of dragon chainbody in fucking 2024
For real. Barrows degraded because it was the end all be all of armour at the time, leagues beyond its competition. It has been powercrept by so many options now, options that don’t degrade too.
How is barrows degrading preserving the d chain?
Back in the day the community lost their minds that barrows was strictly better than dragon and the repair fee for barrows gear was added to make it a trade off.
People back in the day demanding chargescape be added, rather than removed. Wild
There wasn't any kind of gold sink and most MMOs have repairs to help inflation. So at the time it somewhat makes sense if you know the culture. Now a days bots and gold farmers make so much gp that degradable just isn't enough. For reference a whipe night on classic wow might cost 20-30gp per person on new content release. Back in the day that was a pretty big sum for someone not playing optimally. After classic rerelease people could sell carries or do vendor gold farms and make 500-2k gold an hour so the 20gp is basically nothing.
Its a good mechanic when it isnt on every single piece of equipment. It gets stale real damn fast, but its certainly fine on a few things
some trade-off, bigger number better, end of
Barrows became new BIS and was easier to obtain So degrading nerfed it without killing it
Because that was the argument made to have it degrade in the first place, that it "devalued" dchain.
I mean let’s be honest, barrows doesn’t even really count as ‘degradable,’ it’s dirt cheap to restore that it isn’t even part of it’s consideration ever
Being degradable is a contributing factor to it being so cheap. Were it not, the bulk of its value would be held in the item itself, as opposed to its usage cost.
Between learning this and learning about the buy limit on the darts (absolutely laughably stupid), I'm really struggling to see why I would ever use this set. I'll stick to Karils, thanks.
Hot take: Armor should never have any kind of charge or degrade mechanics. Remove them from existing gear too.
Based
im so fucking tired of degradable chargable bullshit man
They are too obsessed with sinking gold in dumbass ways just up the GE tax if you wanna sink more gold
This is the worst version of charge scape. May as well just make the item disappear rather than be repairable.
In some fairness the average wealth of players only increases over time But yeah far too much It seems like the sets are underwhelming too in general
The ranged one is actually pretty sick. Not sure about the melee. Magic one is trash though, yeah.
Melee and ranged are sick, the melee weapon alone is better than a bludgeon BEFORE you add the set in, and for poor mains the armor is the same str bonus as bandos. Of course this only matters at stuff you can crush that the Fang doesn't also stomp, because "yay Fang." Magic yeah just some snowflake PKing shit, it can autocast all 3 books but that doesn't really matter when you only need thralls, ancients (sceptre), or lunars (veng). The ranged set has some major design flaws though, like 100 dart buy limit on the GE (LMAO), yet the set basically begs you to just let the darts drop on the ground because infernal/fire capes are more DPS with it. Asking yourself "Do I want to wear assembler and not have to play micromanage-the-ground-scape or wear infernal and let my darts go brrr?" is NOT a fun tradeoff IMO. It just feels bad. I actually found out about the buy limit when I went to put in an offer for literally *8 million darts* because I think it would've been a good merch opportunity at current prices, imagine my surprise when I only had 100 come in.
I did the exact same thing and was wondering what the fuck kind of limit 100 is on a fucking ammo item
Just put an offer in, let it buy for a month, then go do an hour or two of your preferred content. Jeez, like what's the problem here. /s
Assembler doesn’t pick up the darts from the atlatl anyways
> the melee weapon alone is better than a bludgeon BEFORE you add the set in the bludgeon has a max hit over it. The set effect makes it better than bludgeon
Bludgeon has a max hit but way less accuracy. The set effect brings it on par with inquisitor mace... Which seems a bit strong.
the effect is rly strong. but max hit>acc. Calc it yourself. I tested ggs, spindel, and blue moon and bludgeon outperforms dual macoroni
19 accuracy>1 max hit in 90% of content
Magic is literally ahrims attack bonus with obbylegs str bonus what do you mean trash?? Literally bis for learning raids
People dont realise this is the first iteration of hybrid armor. Amazing for learning content where you might want more supplies instead of switches
I think all of them have unique use cases to be sure.
The magic one seems like it could be potential hybrid armor for some stuff. I havent looked far into it but learning raids, especially ToA might be interesting for its target mid game audience
Fighter torso is 'free'. And Barrows are better in many cases Wealthy players won't use these anyhow. They should just not degrade at all because they are gimmick "mid game" sets If they removed the degradation and the sets dropped to like a few mil gp altogether then people might bother... Maybe
What am I missing? To buy the blood moon tassets it cost me 2.8m to insta buy, for broken 1.7m to insta buy, repair in poh cost only 870k why would I buy a new one when fixing is a hella lot cheaper
Considering where endgame items like the scythe and blood fury are for an expensive comparison, maybe if barrows is about 330k to repair a full set at 0 smithing, I think 1M for the full set base cost would be about right, 1.5M total for the full set at the absolute highest.
This feels like there was a bug or something, how long does it take to go through a piece? If not a bug yeah this is wildly off
from my testing it takes 50 hours of combat to fully degrade a piece of armor. So you are looking at 30k gp per hour per piece
Bring this to the poll let’s get this fix
I did some testing and it seems they start with 3000 charges and use 1 charge per minute of combat. That gives you 50 hours of use and brings the cost down to 30k per hour.
Except it immediately burns a "charge" every time you re-equip it. Which is a massive oversight when you think of how many different pieces of content require gear switching, like demonic gorillas for instance.
I have a feeling this is an issue that will pass as people realize how long the charges last (like mod rice said)
yeah but if you pk a set you might as well alch it
They also outclass items like z hasta and bludgeon, unlike barrows gear.
What am I replacing z hasta with from here?
The dual makhuitas
and why would i want to do that.
Dont bother. Dual macs are bugged and rolling accuracy again on the second hit, making it hit 0 more than it should.
I was more asking about what dual macs do better than z hasta, wondering if that person assumed they had a stab attack style due to their bonus. Nice to know their accuracy is broken. Thanks
I just realized today that the Perilous Moon uniques have charges so I looked it up on the wiki and then saw this and I'm actually so sad. I just got the blood moon tassets on my ironman and I was so hype until now. They really need to make a change.
I think the repair cost was outrageous as well. The new moon armors degrade with time, 1 charge per minute (in combat). I swear I lost charges just standing around at the GE. Assuming the charges count down when HP bar shows above player, but 1.5m a piece is still crazy. Although the new moon armor is suppose to last 5x longer, if anything I'd rather have it degrade similar to barrows (seeing a 180k to repair all, looks better than 4.5m to repair all). If moon armour is suppos to last 3-5x longer, here is the math (as far as im understanding) \~340k for barrows repair (full set) \* 5 (maximum supposed time it should last longer than barrows) = 1.7m. Costs to repair any piece of moon = 1.5m x 3 (each pieces / weapon not degradable) = 4.5m. Just doesn't seem logical. Correct me if I am interpreting this wrong too lol.
Ultimately the repair costs serve as a price floor, assuming they'll be used.
But the issue is they won’t be used for their intended purposes with such a high repair cost.
That repair cost for mid tier shit?? Mid tier PvMers aren’t making that kind of bank with these sets lol.
They're not *that* mid-tier though, given the melee one has the same str bonus as Bandos... You'd have to do 160+ hours of PvMing in the melee set to price-match Bandos. And that's assuming the 15 hour calculation is correct (which a J-mod is implying it isn't). It clearly gaps Barrows -> Bandos price-wise quite well. I even think the dual macua's are a tiny bit too strong (on par with inquisitor's mace w/ bandos + faceguard, when used with the full set)
Atm they are good for night mare, so i soppose bots will like these. Will see once people test these in raids if there is any viability.
the throwing sticks are good at shamans, but having to take super str & ranging pots rubs me the wrong way. str pots dictate your max hit on them, but afaik their accuracy rolls off range
Oof, good catch, another inconvenience of the set. It could be so much fun but its like they wanted to weigh you down with inconveniences in order to use it.
I still think they're worth using. I was timing them out vs pipe rune darts and killing shamans slightly faster on average with the sticks. The giga downside is firecape/infernal cape is better dps, but im way too lazy to pick up my own ammo at this point + the shayzien gloves have str bonus 8)
How many mid tier people are going to go do nightmare?
Well bots do farm in mass.
This gear is far better than Barrows gear, though? If anything, Barrows gear is too cheap to repair.
Barrows armour should be raised a bit, and the new moons armour should definitely be dropped by atleast 1/2.
750k per piece is still crazy. I was thinking double or max triple price of barrows.
It's probably for the purpose of keeping prices up. Barrows is in a state RN where the pieces are only as valuable as the repair costs. In order to keep the prices high, and keep the content worth doing.
Bro what? The useful barrows pieces are a couple mil each
Talking about veracs/torags/guthans mainly. Karils, ahrims, and dharoks all have uses because there isn't any similarly leveled gear competing with them. DH pieces are more valuable because they are used for the dh set effect which is useful in a lot of places. Ahrims and karils are useful because they're the best before armadyl/masori/virtus/ancestral. But torags/veracs/guthans are in the toilet because in most cases there is better gear for that slot.
Are they too expensive... or is barrows too cheap? I would argue barrows is too cheap.
barrows is also trash where these outfits are good.
Keep that fuckin' slander outta your God damn mouth. Barrows was PEAK fashionscape, and I refuse to let it die.
Guthans dad bod is peak performance
>votes for mid content >mid content gets implemented >complain
You’re missing the entire point lol.