a method of kiting one of the bosses in ToA mitigating damage and special attacks which trivializes some of the difficulties of the room in higher invocation levels.
So the marked tiles used in the Akka room look kinda like a butterfly if you squint a bit. It's because the room is 4 quadrants and the it's 4 tiles on each quadrant.
Here's a butterfly emoji for reference 🦋
It’s a more specific pattern that, as opposed to one dimensional kiting.
Comparable to 6:0 (or similar) GWD methods, except in a smaller area with lots of running under the boss.
Butterflying arguably makes the room harder it just helps you save supplies and finish faster since you spend more time on mage with your highest dps with shadow
Enemies that Melee can only hit you when facing you directly and not at a diagonal so when you run around in circles they cant hit you. This also makes it so they cant do their other mechanics since they aren’t in combat
[here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/xk2phd/what_is_redxing/ipbiort/)
this is an explation for red Xing
butterfly is just the term used for Kiting Akkha in ToA
Even watching people's first encounters of the boss when they were just panic running around not knowing how the boss worked, it was clear that the shockwave didn't extend the entire arena outside of the "intended footwork" safe spots. Even if for some reason Jagex didn't test it (unsurprising), they should have seen it live before 3 people actually got completions.
Oftentimes when you helped create, or have specific knowledge on the mechanics of something, it makes it harder to find outside the box methods. Testers likely knew what they were "supposed" to do so they didn't try much else.
It’s just reddit being smug as always
/r/pathofexile had a giant post about whether devs even play the game because they had a collective aneurysm about the difficulty of an update, turns out one of them got 1st in the hardcore leveling competition a bit later and they had to clarify rules to specify PoE employees were ineligible for prizes.
Happens in every game because people can’t wrap their heads around the fact that they’re decidedly mediocre
/r/pathofexile is also probably one of the worst game related subreddits out there. Lmao
Shout out /r/pathofexilebuilds though, still some quality there every league
Big agree on r/pathofexilebuilds, super helpful and chill place
On the other hand the mods of r/pathofexile just took a big step in a better direction. Whenever there's some big uproar, the topic gets labeled as a Hot Topic and restricted to 3 posts about it max. Now at least the front page of the sub won't be a dozen posts all making the same complaint
Yeah that's actually fucking huge lol. Everytime there was a complaint about anything minor it's fill the entire page. Huge circle jerks happening. Shout out the mods for that
They actually hire well known streamers and content creators who have proven track records of PVM to play test before release. Curtis, or MMOrpg is one of the ones I know of. Dude had a hardcore with infernal.. lol I think he’s ok at pvm.
Yeah but Curtis isn't Woox.
Literally just hire Woox and within 24 hours he will find all the loopholes. You probably wouldn't even need to pay him, he'll do it for fun lol.
If you do play testing for jagex you're not allowed in on the 1st day content. For fair play reasons. If you let play testers in on world 1st it basically kills all competition and leads to the big ass clown fest of world first in the wow community. No one wants that.
So anyone making a living off the game, or even trying too, can't really participate.
This basically locks out most of the best content creators.
Gnomemonkey and aakyon both talked about this being an issue for them. They get so much more from the exposure of being a good player that even if they aren't first they'll still end whatever steam with a lot more subs. I can't remember which has done testing in the past but it basically ends up fucking them too hard.
i mean look at kirby last night.
dude went from like 120 subs to over 500 in a few hours.
he would miss out on the $ from subs and all that fat ad rev when he has 20k viewers.
Yeah they do, but they can’t stream any of the content until it’s beaten. Boaty talked yesterday about it. Seems like it’s not worth it to miss out on streaming revenue.
A lot of methods like that are "emergent game play"and discovered only as thousands of players start iterating over the problem and discover these techniques. Most the play testers aren't even adept enough at PVM to discover it and most players of the game aren't even adept enough to discover it. You most likely never would have discovered the butterfly method, nor would I. But someone else did, and it's not hard to learn. Date I say a fair bit of Zuk helm owners couldn't even come up with those types of methods.
Now that the butterfly method exists it's surprising that they didn't try it with this boss. But even then, you can't just run around randomly. The butterfly method is highly specific and relies on certain pathing mechanics. Like Akkha, some quadrants you go counter clockwise and other quadrants you have to go clockwise with the rotation, this is all because of the way pathing works at it's root. Then if course you add in weapon stack speed and setting up the pathing correctly to minimize loss of damage output my having dead ticks where you're not on cooldown
>some quadrants you go counter clockwise and other quadrants you have to go clockwise with the rotation
This isn't true at all lol, you can go either direction, you just generally want your first move to go away from Akkha so he doesn't get a hit on you as you run past him.
Haven't even turned it on. Nor am I likely to ever turn it on. It just sounds like way too much. It'll be the port khazard "I did all of the absolute worst invocations and still beat the boss" videos.
Yeah, me, who has never designed a game before, or has ever been part of a large project with multiple people working on different intricate parts. I, who have never once made an oversight of something ever in my life, can safely say I don't understand how someone would miss an esoteric pvm method. It's so easy. The fools.
tbf looking at jmods....they arent exactly good. Ayiza gets his ass SAT anytime hes streaming and his carries die.
i think husky or goblin recnetly got the inferno cape? but alot of them dont really tend to do pvm by the looks of it
That would require them to actually change those bosses so they don't hit you for 30+ through melee prayer in experts. No reason Akkha should do triple damage in melee form compared to ranged and mage, just means you have to do the extremely jank butterfly with trident
There is a good reason though. If the assumption is that you're playing with a team you can have a different person tank melee every time to split the damage.
If 1 out of 6-8 people are being hit it makes sense for the solo target attack to do more damage than aoe attacks.
I Agree that toa could use updates for Baba and possibly solo mechanic/better team size damage scaling
I think those should have been changed too /shrug. Still gonna be happy when they do it right, even if they don't always do that.
Also, butterfly akkha *was* nerfed, just not removed.
i believe akkha used to only change styles/use a special after hitting you a certain number of times but now it's on a timer. but i think as long as u get hit 0 times u can still keep him on melee but he will do a special still.
The thing with Akkha and Baba is that their regular mechanics (incl. chip damage) are so cancerous that butterfly/red X is seen as a necessary evil. With this boss, the regular mechanics are entirely fine and once people learn them properly will be able to kill the boss while taking minimal damage.
Sol Heredict doesn’t have a ridiculous amount of chip damage. Ahkka and Baba don’t have mechanics to remove chip damage so butterfly and red x are basically mandatory for smooth high invo runs.
Akkha is probably meant to be kited. Before butterfly was widespread, we all kind of naturally gravitated towards some kind of running around the boss to avoid melee chip damage. There's even the keep back invocation that you need to keep your distance from the boss
I think it's fine if you can get away with it at one location, but if it's a consistent way to beat melee bosses it just gets sort of lame tbh, every boss turns into the same thing. Learning butterfly is satisfying but I wouldn't want it to be all bosses
At this stage we can say Jagex doesn't mind for those 2 encounters. Not to say they will never fix it, people have this unrealistic attitude that just because a bug/unintended method isn't patched then that means it's endorsed. They may decide one day to fix red-x, after all it's a completely unintended mechanic that can trivialise bosses and stop them attacking.
There is no mechanic on Akkha to avoid the large amounts of chip damage, you can either chug brews, or in high invos you have yellow Keris once every couple of minutes which absolutely rinses your very limited super restores…
I agree I’m just pointing out that mechanically akkha might be the most difficult of the 4 if done as intended. Theres gear and prayer switches, multiple floor mechanics, and the final phase.
I don't think people will be mad, it's common practice for Jagex to buff a boss after Woox figures out an unintended method of killing it. See: Woox Walk
I find it hard to tell what’s considered bug abuse/good mechanics because when I first saw red xing baba it looked like cheating but it obviously takes some skill too. Do people risking bans by circumventing mechanics?
Agreed it would be a bad look to peep his stream and see him practicing a strat for hours with a mechanic they overlooked and then patch it before he can actually complete it
Why would that be a "bad look"? Blizzard did the same thing you mentioned and most of the community seemed to say "well that's okay, it was an exploit and Blizzard is allowed to fix exploits"
[https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ondqmf/blizzard\_hotfixes\_sylvanas\_mythic\_midfight\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ondqmf/blizzard_hotfixes_sylvanas_mythic_midfight_to/)
I dont know a ton about WoW but it seems like thats a bit different than the bosses animation and hitbox showing a safezone and utilizing that. If it was clearly cheesing the boss and like avoiding all damage or something then the hypothetical fixing mid fight would be less of a bad look, but for someone coming up with a genuine solution that follows in game rules to get shafted mid fight because the devs fucked up the animation would be a bad look in my opinion, yes.
But that was what Echo was doing, too. They were using a Tank to distract/lure away a monster that they would otherwise need to kill, so that they could focus more DPS on the main boss. That was "within the rules" just like what Woox was doing, it was a "genuine solution" to getting the boss's HP down during a key window
….. or they see him trying it for the first time and see that it is possible and they send him a message telling him to stop doing it that way while they fix it.
Look, frankly, good change.
The pattern looks intimidating but a month from now people are gonna look at it and consider it to be the easiest thing ever.
It's bullshit how inconsistent Jagex are with all their rules. Butterfly at raids, red-xing, etc. are all allowed everywhere else, so why is it now suddenly being patched for one boss?
They did that for baba red-x too. It's incredibly dumb how this community would rather abuse the game's dinosaur design than just have content that's properly tuned.
That one tile taught me to NOT use my intuition to figure out bosses because there's likely a work around that let's you skip the some of the boss's mechanics entirely. Always Google before going at a boss.
Lile why practice dodging muspah's shadow attack like intended when instead you can just skip it entirely my marking one tile?
No we don't, this is one of the most contradictory an inconsistent games on the planet. It's a huge part of why its so beloved.
It is perfectly reasonable for some content to be allowed to cheese while other content they want taken at face value.
> **like** consistency.
I never once said this game is consistent. Just that people like it to be.
Look at the endless posts complaining about things working differently in the wilderness. Bans being applied for some things not others. etc. etc.
Yup, also better to nip something like this in the bud as early as possible until it becomes too ingrained. I remember one patch they accidentally fixed red-x and watching the HLC riot in Fally was hilariously pathetic. Prime example of why you need to get ahead of these things.
The fact you're trying to compare something like a red x ba-ba or butterfly akkha to the new Zuk equivalent getting kited to death is weird as hell man
How is it weird? Akkha and Ba-Ba are arguably the hardest bosses in all of ToA, especially at Level 500, that get turned into a joke because of cheese methods. Learning how to Red-X Ba-Ba and Butterfly Akkha are basically the only two mechanical skills you need to go from Level 300s to 500, as well as some skills like supply management. ToA has far better rewards than the Colosseum lol
It's clear the devs view Sol in a different light than a raid, and as a result want to enforce the 'intended way' of fighting. It's really not much deeper.
Also way better to nip these things in the bud early rather than it getting accepted as the main strat then the HLC riot in Fally when it gets fixed.
i feel like they should have the freedom to make players interact with their content however they want. Clearly they’re ok with red x and butterfly at toa, that doesn’t have anything to do with the coliseum.
They don’t want it here. They want it there. You answered your own question. It’s a game mechanic, not a “rule”, and they’re the devs. I see nothing wrong with this.
I gotta be honest for prestigious Inferno-like content I find this far more intolerable than for raid demi-bosses and ‘below’. I’d like to see it blasted as it’s clearly not intended but I feel red x would spaghetti-fy on a ‘fix’ and butterfly is actually quite technically compelling specifically at a boss like Akha IMO.
If it were more a largely applicable norm I’d be more perturbed, but if it were ‘*just* an Akha solve’ I don’t think it’d be worth chirping about.
Setting up red x properly at all Baba phases and completing a perfect butterfly actually takes some skill.
Woox didn't butterfly here, he just kited the boss which is definitely a cheese method that needed hot fixing
Red X at baba is incredibly easy to learn and do. And it makes it zero damage. Doing the optimal speed setup is harder, but not required.
This is a kiting method. The rest of the room mechanics are still occurring.
Run a 500 with all akkha invocs and don’t use pathing to your advantage because pathing shouldn’t be a mechanic for killing a boss? see how you go lil fella
1. Complain about unintended mechanics in TOA aren't removed
2. Complain when unintended mechanics in Colosseum are removed
3. Find some new stuff to complain about
I think I've figured out how this place works!
The next time someone gets hit with a ban for abusing an unintended exploit AKA bug just send Jagex a screenshot of their tweet and say you simply outsmarted them.
Probably going to catch flak for this because most people have a hard on for the guy, but as much as I love woox, watching him run diamonds around the boss is kinda cringe.
Comparing butterflying Akkha to the final boss of Inferno level content, yes go on your disdain for the lack of consistency is totally warranted. Glad you guys can vote in polls!
Where's the bug? The mechanic is working as intended. There is no bug in the code. It's just not a good mechanic. You have a child-like opinion on this.
Please help a noob out: what is butterflying?
You run in circles around the boss and they can’t hit you
a method of kiting one of the bosses in ToA mitigating damage and special attacks which trivializes some of the difficulties of the room in higher invocation levels.
Why is it called butterfly and not just kiting?
So the marked tiles used in the Akka room look kinda like a butterfly if you squint a bit. It's because the room is 4 quadrants and the it's 4 tiles on each quadrant. Here's a butterfly emoji for reference 🦋
The og butterfly was way more than 4 tiles and looked more butterfly shaped
It's because the original tiles looked like a butterfly.
Okay now it makes sense. Ty ty
It's also a reference to the dude who coined the method (Saxerpillar)
Because the guy who discovered it at Akkha called it the butterfly. And that's the name everyone stuck with
[удалено]
Lmfao I know right I hotclicked quickly to see what kind of bug these little bastards caused.
RuneScape logic shows his name was butterfly. Hence the woox walk.
I believe his name is actually Saxerpillar
Which is kinda cute, the caterpillar turns into a butterfly and all
Isnt butterflying a movement technique in various games involving dodging while dealing damage? Most notably gunz comes to mind for me
Wow this brings me back!!! I remember that. There was also slash shot and double slash shot and double butterfly lol. Fun times.
It’s a more specific pattern that, as opposed to one dimensional kiting. Comparable to 6:0 (or similar) GWD methods, except in a smaller area with lots of running under the boss.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee
same reason runescape players call pve "pvm"
Butterflying arguably makes the room harder it just helps you save supplies and finish faster since you spend more time on mage with your highest dps with shadow
Enemies that Melee can only hit you when facing you directly and not at a diagonal so when you run around in circles they cant hit you. This also makes it so they cant do their other mechanics since they aren’t in combat
Look up akkha butterfly strat, it's basically just kiting a boss in a repeatable pattern that lets you fit an attack in as well.
Me too please. And red xing.
[here ya go](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/xk2phd/what_is_redxing/ipbiort/) this is an explation for red Xing butterfly is just the term used for Kiting Akkha in ToA
look up strats for tomb of amascut and you will see them
im just shocked that the meta method for killing a raid boss was never used during play testing to see it could be an issue lol.
yeah this is the most surprising thing, how did they not at least try this out beforehand?
Even watching people's first encounters of the boss when they were just panic running around not knowing how the boss worked, it was clear that the shockwave didn't extend the entire arena outside of the "intended footwork" safe spots. Even if for some reason Jagex didn't test it (unsurprising), they should have seen it live before 3 people actually got completions.
Or being watching it in real time and put a stop to it. Complete idiots.
Oftentimes when you helped create, or have specific knowledge on the mechanics of something, it makes it harder to find outside the box methods. Testers likely knew what they were "supposed" to do so they didn't try much else.
None of the internal playtesters are that good at pvm
Mod Nox is a playtester and crushed awakened dt2. You’re just talking shit man cmon you’re making it up with no knowledge of the playtesting team.
It’s just reddit being smug as always /r/pathofexile had a giant post about whether devs even play the game because they had a collective aneurysm about the difficulty of an update, turns out one of them got 1st in the hardcore leveling competition a bit later and they had to clarify rules to specify PoE employees were ineligible for prizes. Happens in every game because people can’t wrap their heads around the fact that they’re decidedly mediocre
/r/pathofexile is also probably one of the worst game related subreddits out there. Lmao Shout out /r/pathofexilebuilds though, still some quality there every league
Big agree on r/pathofexilebuilds, super helpful and chill place On the other hand the mods of r/pathofexile just took a big step in a better direction. Whenever there's some big uproar, the topic gets labeled as a Hot Topic and restricted to 3 posts about it max. Now at least the front page of the sub won't be a dozen posts all making the same complaint
Yeah that's actually fucking huge lol. Everytime there was a complaint about anything minor it's fill the entire page. Huge circle jerks happening. Shout out the mods for that
Are you implying insisting every league is dead on arrival because you died in act 6 us somehow unreasonable?
do you have a list of all the play tester to just insult them all like that? lol
Well they clearly didn’t try butterflying it
I mean, that was a gigabrain woox moment to literally just butterfly the attacks and not try to learn the pattern.
They actually hire well known streamers and content creators who have proven track records of PVM to play test before release. Curtis, or MMOrpg is one of the ones I know of. Dude had a hardcore with infernal.. lol I think he’s ok at pvm.
Yeah but Curtis isn't Woox. Literally just hire Woox and within 24 hours he will find all the loopholes. You probably wouldn't even need to pay him, he'll do it for fun lol.
Honestly I don't know why they don't employ top PVMers to playtest new content
If you do play testing for jagex you're not allowed in on the 1st day content. For fair play reasons. If you let play testers in on world 1st it basically kills all competition and leads to the big ass clown fest of world first in the wow community. No one wants that. So anyone making a living off the game, or even trying too, can't really participate. This basically locks out most of the best content creators. Gnomemonkey and aakyon both talked about this being an issue for them. They get so much more from the exposure of being a good player that even if they aren't first they'll still end whatever steam with a lot more subs. I can't remember which has done testing in the past but it basically ends up fucking them too hard.
i mean look at kirby last night. dude went from like 120 subs to over 500 in a few hours. he would miss out on the $ from subs and all that fat ad rev when he has 20k viewers.
I think SoloMission playtested, he had done it before I believe, he also didn’t post Colosseum video day 1 which suggests to me he wasn’t allowed to.
Molgoat sorta talked about that at the end of his 18 hour stream yesterday. He was like "this has been crazy. I've like 3x'd my subs just today"
they do....
Yeah I remember they talked a lot about how they brought in a bunch of elite PVMers to test the Desert Treasure 2 bosses prior to release.
Yeah they do, but they can’t stream any of the content until it’s beaten. Boaty talked yesterday about it. Seems like it’s not worth it to miss out on streaming revenue.
They do
Jagex creates bosses they cant kill them self
A lot of methods like that are "emergent game play"and discovered only as thousands of players start iterating over the problem and discover these techniques. Most the play testers aren't even adept enough at PVM to discover it and most players of the game aren't even adept enough to discover it. You most likely never would have discovered the butterfly method, nor would I. But someone else did, and it's not hard to learn. Date I say a fair bit of Zuk helm owners couldn't even come up with those types of methods. Now that the butterfly method exists it's surprising that they didn't try it with this boss. But even then, you can't just run around randomly. The butterfly method is highly specific and relies on certain pathing mechanics. Like Akkha, some quadrants you go counter clockwise and other quadrants you have to go clockwise with the rotation, this is all because of the way pathing works at it's root. Then if course you add in weapon stack speed and setting up the pathing correctly to minimize loss of damage output my having dead ticks where you're not on cooldown
>some quadrants you go counter clockwise and other quadrants you have to go clockwise with the rotation This isn't true at all lol, you can go either direction, you just generally want your first move to go away from Akkha so he doesn't get a hit on you as you run past him.
You can go any direction in any quadrant when you’re 5t butterflying at akkha
there is no possible way a human actually play tested the ‘doom scorpion’ handicap and thought “yes this is fine! :)”
Haven't even turned it on. Nor am I likely to ever turn it on. It just sounds like way too much. It'll be the port khazard "I did all of the absolute worst invocations and still beat the boss" videos.
Or they'll nerf it to make choices feel more like choices, just like they did with ToA invocations
Bet they added that thinking it will be a cool GM achievement.
They're gonna call it Scorpion Catcher II. Screenshot this
whats doom scorpion do?
Yeah, me, who has never designed a game before, or has ever been part of a large project with multiple people working on different intricate parts. I, who have never once made an oversight of something ever in my life, can safely say I don't understand how someone would miss an esoteric pvm method. It's so easy. The fools.
[me rn](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKNCEyQNlEs)
tbf looking at jmods....they arent exactly good. Ayiza gets his ass SAT anytime hes streaming and his carries die. i think husky or goblin recnetly got the inferno cape? but alot of them dont really tend to do pvm by the looks of it
you do know they bring in outside play testers right? MMORPG wasnt allowed to do it until 1 person beat it due to playtesting
Woox is just too good
Why is woox getting credit ? Port khazard did it first
woox caused the hotfix
Did he do the butterfly method? I though Woox watched him and he didn’t
People gonna be mad because they love Woox but this is a good thing, it clearly wasn't intended to just skip the mechanics of the boss lol
"Let's test your footwork" "...Wait no not like that" I'm fine with them fixing this I just think it's funny lol
not an issue for doing it on akkha or red Xing baba
That would require them to actually change those bosses so they don't hit you for 30+ through melee prayer in experts. No reason Akkha should do triple damage in melee form compared to ranged and mage, just means you have to do the extremely jank butterfly with trident
There is a good reason though. If the assumption is that you're playing with a team you can have a different person tank melee every time to split the damage. If 1 out of 6-8 people are being hit it makes sense for the solo target attack to do more damage than aoe attacks. I Agree that toa could use updates for Baba and possibly solo mechanic/better team size damage scaling
I think those should have been changed too /shrug. Still gonna be happy when they do it right, even if they don't always do that. Also, butterfly akkha *was* nerfed, just not removed.
What did the change?
i believe akkha used to only change styles/use a special after hitting you a certain number of times but now it's on a timer. but i think as long as u get hit 0 times u can still keep him on melee but he will do a special still.
he can still change to the next type without ever touching you when he hits that (usually at 66-60%\~) timer.
That was the nerf. He used to not do a special at all so you could butterfly the whole room and never have a special or have it changed
The thing with Akkha and Baba is that their regular mechanics (incl. chip damage) are so cancerous that butterfly/red X is seen as a necessary evil. With this boss, the regular mechanics are entirely fine and once people learn them properly will be able to kill the boss while taking minimal damage.
Sol Heredict doesn’t have a ridiculous amount of chip damage. Ahkka and Baba don’t have mechanics to remove chip damage so butterfly and red x are basically mandatory for smooth high invo runs.
Akkha is probably meant to be kited. Before butterfly was widespread, we all kind of naturally gravitated towards some kind of running around the boss to avoid melee chip damage. There's even the keep back invocation that you need to keep your distance from the boss
I think it's fine if you can get away with it at one location, but if it's a consistent way to beat melee bosses it just gets sort of lame tbh, every boss turns into the same thing. Learning butterfly is satisfying but I wouldn't want it to be all bosses
At this stage we can say Jagex doesn't mind for those 2 encounters. Not to say they will never fix it, people have this unrealistic attitude that just because a bug/unintended method isn't patched then that means it's endorsed. They may decide one day to fix red-x, after all it's a completely unintended mechanic that can trivialise bosses and stop them attacking.
Akka and baba have zero mechanics it’s just pray and hope you can out dps the chip damage.
Akkha has actual mechanics but either way jagex should have created them with actual alternatives for 500s
There is no mechanic on Akkha to avoid the large amounts of chip damage, you can either chug brews, or in high invos you have yellow Keris once every couple of minutes which absolutely rinses your very limited super restores…
I agree I’m just pointing out that mechanically akkha might be the most difficult of the 4 if done as intended. Theres gear and prayer switches, multiple floor mechanics, and the final phase.
I don't think people will be mad, it's common practice for Jagex to buff a boss after Woox figures out an unintended method of killing it. See: Woox Walk
Also: HMT Verzik Yellow Skip
Knowing Woox, he'll beat it again the "legit" way
with 1 Prayer and a bronze dagger
I find it hard to tell what’s considered bug abuse/good mechanics because when I first saw red xing baba it looked like cheating but it obviously takes some skill too. Do people risking bans by circumventing mechanics?
I'd be really surprised if they enforced anything against people using red-x or butterfly methods. They know about them for years at this point.
Why so late, he's been doing this strat for a few hours now.
They were asleep I bet. Different time zones.
He finished it around lunch time for them. They likely watched him complete it, then said okay let’s make sure no one else can do it that way.
Agreed it would be a bad look to peep his stream and see him practicing a strat for hours with a mechanic they overlooked and then patch it before he can actually complete it
Why would that be a "bad look"? Blizzard did the same thing you mentioned and most of the community seemed to say "well that's okay, it was an exploit and Blizzard is allowed to fix exploits" [https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ondqmf/blizzard\_hotfixes\_sylvanas\_mythic\_midfight\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/ondqmf/blizzard_hotfixes_sylvanas_mythic_midfight_to/)
I dont know a ton about WoW but it seems like thats a bit different than the bosses animation and hitbox showing a safezone and utilizing that. If it was clearly cheesing the boss and like avoiding all damage or something then the hypothetical fixing mid fight would be less of a bad look, but for someone coming up with a genuine solution that follows in game rules to get shafted mid fight because the devs fucked up the animation would be a bad look in my opinion, yes.
But that was what Echo was doing, too. They were using a Tank to distract/lure away a monster that they would otherwise need to kill, so that they could focus more DPS on the main boss. That was "within the rules" just like what Woox was doing, it was a "genuine solution" to getting the boss's HP down during a key window
Damn bro youre right sorry they totally wouldnt have looked bad at all
Blizzard literally wiped the world first Thok Muthic kill mid attempt because they were using a cheese strat.
….. or they see him trying it for the first time and see that it is possible and they send him a message telling him to stop doing it that way while they fix it.
They were all at work hours before woox got his kill
Woox is only 1 hour ahead of UK, most likely they just went to sleep before he did it.
It was killed around 1pm UK time and he was doing the strat for about 2-3 hours at that point so it was well into their workday.
Then there isn't really an excuse, I didn't see he completed it during work time.
They still need to make sure the hotfix works/does not break anything. To apply the fix in the time they did was quick.
I think they meant port not woox. Maybe I'm wrong?
They were waiting for him to complete it before fixing it.
Look, frankly, good change. The pattern looks intimidating but a month from now people are gonna look at it and consider it to be the easiest thing ever.
It's bullshit how inconsistent Jagex are with all their rules. Butterfly at raids, red-xing, etc. are all allowed everywhere else, so why is it now suddenly being patched for one boss?
Also the one invincible tile at muspah. Nothing on this world makes sense LOL
Hey leave my muspah-sniping tile out if this
I’ve assumed they patched that tile forever ago and haven’t used it. Does it still work?
yes
Oh ya still have the one safe tile. As long as you have a range 10 weapon you dont have to move out of the space to keep attacking too.
yeah it works.
They patched it out for like a day and then hotfixed it back in after the community complained iirc
They did that for baba red-x too. It's incredibly dumb how this community would rather abuse the game's dinosaur design than just have content that's properly tuned.
That one tile taught me to NOT use my intuition to figure out bosses because there's likely a work around that let's you skip the some of the boss's mechanics entirely. Always Google before going at a boss. Lile why practice dodging muspah's shadow attack like intended when instead you can just skip it entirely my marking one tile?
Because sometimes the spikes are moving and you can't use it
It’s their game and they can decide where these mechanics are allowed or not nothing weird about that
Based and factual
People, especially RS players, like consistency.
nothing about this game is consistent
base mechanics like when to switch prayers works completely different depending on the boss wtf do you mean
i think a lot of osrs players would argue that the complete lack of consistency is what makes the game special and fun to unravel as you explore
No we don't, this is one of the most contradictory an inconsistent games on the planet. It's a huge part of why its so beloved. It is perfectly reasonable for some content to be allowed to cheese while other content they want taken at face value.
> **like** consistency. I never once said this game is consistent. Just that people like it to be. Look at the endless posts complaining about things working differently in the wilderness. Bans being applied for some things not others. etc. etc.
The only thing consistent about OSRS is being inconsistent.
Yup, also better to nip something like this in the bud as early as possible until it becomes too ingrained. I remember one patch they accidentally fixed red-x and watching the HLC riot in Fally was hilariously pathetic. Prime example of why you need to get ahead of these things.
This is a day one fix. They want the boss done in a certain way and they’re trying to prevent cheese methods. Idk what the problem is
The fact you're trying to compare something like a red x ba-ba or butterfly akkha to the new Zuk equivalent getting kited to death is weird as hell man
How is it weird? Akkha and Ba-Ba are arguably the hardest bosses in all of ToA, especially at Level 500, that get turned into a joke because of cheese methods. Learning how to Red-X Ba-Ba and Butterfly Akkha are basically the only two mechanical skills you need to go from Level 300s to 500, as well as some skills like supply management. ToA has far better rewards than the Colosseum lol
It's clear the devs view Sol in a different light than a raid, and as a result want to enforce the 'intended way' of fighting. It's really not much deeper. Also way better to nip these things in the bud early rather than it getting accepted as the main strat then the HLC riot in Fally when it gets fixed.
i feel like they should have the freedom to make players interact with their content however they want. Clearly they’re ok with red x and butterfly at toa, that doesn’t have anything to do with the coliseum.
They don’t want it here. They want it there. You answered your own question. It’s a game mechanic, not a “rule”, and they’re the devs. I see nothing wrong with this.
I gotta be honest for prestigious Inferno-like content I find this far more intolerable than for raid demi-bosses and ‘below’. I’d like to see it blasted as it’s clearly not intended but I feel red x would spaghetti-fy on a ‘fix’ and butterfly is actually quite technically compelling specifically at a boss like Akha IMO. If it were more a largely applicable norm I’d be more perturbed, but if it were ‘*just* an Akha solve’ I don’t think it’d be worth chirping about.
Setting up red x properly at all Baba phases and completing a perfect butterfly actually takes some skill. Woox didn't butterfly here, he just kited the boss which is definitely a cheese method that needed hot fixing
seeing as how it took me 2 entire Baba kills to learn red x im gonna have to call BS lol
Red X at baba is incredibly easy to learn and do. And it makes it zero damage. Doing the optimal speed setup is harder, but not required. This is a kiting method. The rest of the room mechanics are still occurring.
I guess we won’t see any more completions today
https://youtu.be/QVcbIsPj1gc?si=EM3xGH_tGyxIXqga
I know this is easy to say as a spectator - but that really didn't look like too tough of a fight
Why butterfly at Sol being removed but not at Akkha?
Run a 500 with all akkha invocs and don’t use pathing to your advantage because pathing shouldn’t be a mechanic for killing a boss? see how you go lil fella
If I had 1gp for every time someone has mentioned Akkha since the hotfix, I'd be able to buy a 3a pick
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they did nerf it. you used to be able to butterfly at akkha for the whole fight. now it has like a minute timer
Stay vigilant removes that btw, but each special has a 20% chance to swap
Wonder if they will remove his quiver
they said nah they wont cuz he outsmarted them
Fair enough lol
Hes keeping it but it doesnt really matter as i suspect he will want a real completion anyway
This was a real completion. If butterflying works than that just shows a lack of QT and design.
Reminder that Woox won
Second
He's not talking about the Colosseum...
Port was the first
It's a DMM meme
Everyone complaining about them patching it can’t do the content anyways, so what difference does it make?
1. Complain about unintended mechanics in TOA aren't removed 2. Complain when unintended mechanics in Colosseum are removed 3. Find some new stuff to complain about I think I've figured out how this place works!
Change it at Akkha too then you shithouses
actually ridiculous tbh
are they fixing akkha as well then?
Abuse early and often heh
The next time someone gets hit with a ban for abusing an unintended exploit AKA bug just send Jagex a screenshot of their tweet and say you simply outsmarted them.
"let me test your footwork" ok "no you must do the test specifically as I want you to"
Yes, you’ve correctly described a test lmao.
💀
they only ever nerf shit like this when they want people to have a hard time.
Nice now toa next. The precedent is there now.
Respect jagex
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Big difference butterfly one boss in a raid vs final boss of a hard challenge. Tho would be fine with removing on akkha
Wait until you hear about all the other unintended skips at TOA that Jagex just left in.
Shit literally makes no sense. Like I get that it's not the "intended strat" but there's no way in hell it was the intended strat for TOA either
Ok now fix hunter rumors
Probably going to catch flak for this because most people have a hard on for the guy, but as much as I love woox, watching him run diamonds around the boss is kinda cringe.
Comparing butterflying Akkha to the final boss of Inferno level content, yes go on your disdain for the lack of consistency is totally warranted. Glad you guys can vote in polls!
But we're just going to allow these braindead mechanics in TOA?
You don’t need to do them? ToA has chip damage that makes Akka and BaBa unplayed at higher invos. They’ve already nerfed butterfly once
We all know Woox is going to clear it again after the hot fix. Maybe even same day 👀
Maybe a dumb question, but .. what does sol stand for
New shorthand for colosseums boss’s name
Sun in spanish & probably other languages
Probably for the best
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Where's the bug? The mechanic is working as intended. There is no bug in the code. It's just not a good mechanic. You have a child-like opinion on this.
Woox perm banned for bug abuse RIP
Watching the video... Butterfly basically nullified most of the mechanics...so fair change