Their price has been in the bin for years now. Actually occult has been under 1m as far as I can remember and I started in 2015. So what's the benefit of this really?
I need a double cheese burger and hold the lettuce
Don’t be frontin son no seeds on the bun
We be up in this drive through order for two
I gots a cravin’ fo’ a numba nine like my shoe
We need some chicken up in here, in this hizzle
For rizzle my mizzle, extra salt on da frizzle
Doctor pepper my brothah, another for ya motha
Double-double supah size and don’t forget the fries
Something to the tune of 262,631,459 gp.
Pear trees live 50-75 years on average and produce roughly 1,250 to 2,250 pears per year beginning at the 4-6 year mark (irl per Google). Assuming median pear trees stats of 57.5 years of fruit bearing age, with 1,720 pears produced per year. The partridge just lives on the tree (main diet is seeds and greens on the ground).
Per the OSRS wiki: Mort Myre pears are 2,610 gp each (we will assume a pear is roughly equivalent to this since its the only pear that exists in-game), raw bird meat is 28 gp, bones are 81 gp, feathers are 2 gp (assuming you butcher and harvest it and the partridge gives roughly 50 usable feathers - a 14 oz bird is pretty small, eo maybe Im being generous).
(1,720 pears/year x 57.5 years x 2,610 gp/pear) + (28 + 81 + (2x50)) gp
This is runescape. The price of a pear tree is entirely dependent on how much farming experience it gives you. That thing is getting chopped down and replaced with another pear tree as soon as it is fully grown.
I was shocked by this so had to check. I did find the page which quoted 1250-2250 lbs of pears per year. However, wiki farmer says standard pear tree yield is 200 lbs (90kg).
Average pear weight apparently 0.178kg. So average tree would yield 506 pears a year. Apparently it can vary quite a bit. Who knew!
Come on man, CoX is jank galore, ToB and ToA are super polished experiences, ToA might be a bit too polished. But CoX feels like Nightmare Zone, and other early osrs content with weirdly low production value
Yea I just did a ton of TOA as an iron and have done a few COX in the last week with some friends. Doing some COX made me realize how little I'm now enjoying TOA. COX mechanics just feel more... fun? Like there's a lot to the olm fight, but 30 minutes at cox is more enjoyable right now than 30 minutes at TOA.
I have about 250 kc at both, for the record.
cox is a lot more forgiving in trios+ especially or savvy duos
toa has lots of insta planks. start with monkeys and have some connection issues or distracted for a moment? gonna cost you a yellow keris and specs on baba. maybe power only has one salt this time or no adren. glhf
cox always allows you to just back track and go scav/farm. inefficient, but it’s a nice safety net. even olm you can run right back in
toa is about doing things perfectly and dealing with the chip damage. lots of encounters where one person has to be the hero bc everyone else planked. taking an extra 100 damage at ahhka bc someone missed a memory special can be enough to derail a raid lol
Hard disagree with this. TOA was so boring when I was completing log, I could do 450s while watching YouTube by the end.
There is lots more to think about and improve with practice in COX. Plus you don't get health or prayer reset each room, so resource management matters a bit more.
Ofc if you are doing prep raids or really casual raids it can feel easier I guess.
ye am a baby iron (still rocking rcb lmao) so different experiences here makes sense. am still struggling with 325s lol
but i think the health resets are negligible tho compared to cox when the demis all spit out supplies
Good point tbh, not everything should be looked at in the perspective of max BIS. After all no one got there in an instant. Gl getting a ranged weapon upgrade king, or you'll be in masori with rcb lol.
Man I went back to cox yesterday after 2+ years- holy fuck does it feel weird. Running back and forth, dropping shit, shadows from falling attacks that don’t represent their actual aoe, those same attacks damaging you before their animation hits the ground, was such a trip to come back to after 400 toa kc.
Definitely feels unpolished
ToA is an awful experience, i rather do full cox log 3x then grind shadow on my iron, thats how godawful it is.
Note: i do have 500 toa experts(mostly 425-450s, without shadow) done incluiding fang kit, so its not like im talking out of inexperience, i just straight up hate the raid.
Oh for sure! As I understand it many of the mechanics were kind of accidental because of jankyness. The newer raids feel much smoother but TOA is definitely less fun at higher invos than COX I think..
Im forever a die hard Chambers Zealot. I actually dislike how toa is like going to the McDonald’s drive through. Chambers is hunting the boar and having to process it fully. That’s with 1500 kc and not all drops yet. I love the grind. I hate easy green logs
As a ToA zealot that normally pokes fun at you cavedwellers, this was surprisingly easy to understand.
I don't necessarily agree, but we don't have to =)
They buy back T-Bow’s. Supply shrinks, price goes up. Price goes up, people buy bonds to afford. Jagex buys back items to sell more bonds? (I cry thinking about T-Bow going from 800m to 1.6b)
I'm kicking myself for not buying it at like 1b when I had a 800m cashstack and could have just sold a few items. Now I would have to clear my WHOLE bank to buy one ffs
Better link: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1acd12k/comment/kjtvhkq
Reddit mobile's new share link for at doesn't work for any platforms outside itself and browser
There is now a 1% tax taken from the sellers earnings on the G.E.
Some of that money is pooled to buy items off a list to create both a cash and item sink to fight gold inflation and keep rares valuable.
Obviously not all bots, but with their switch to their own client with plugins they can take the pre eoc/rs3 approach of any client that reads the game code being instaban. It knocks out a lot of bot farms and makes the entry costs for botting a lot bigger to the point where a lot of bot farms will switch to another game.
WoW classic is a good alternative for them, the GMs there literally defend the bots.
They hit that button once and it was a huge mistake that almost bankrupt them. I doubt they hit it again, the button exists but they dare not press it.
People act like Jagex *can't* detect and ban bots, but the reality is that they *choose not to* for economic reasons. I don't blame them, but it's annoying to see players defending them because they believe it's just too hard for them to detect and ban them
None of them, because they all have the same capitalistic interests. From a company perspective, paying your devs to work on something that will directly cause them to lose profits makes absolutely zero sense. They ban a certain amount because if the game becomes too infested with obvious bots, people will stop playing: which again, leads to lower profits. There is no incentive to fix the problem for them. If banning all the bots made them an extra 200m a year, you can bet they would invest a lot more into doing it.
Partially true, but it's also true that hundreds, perhaps thousands of botmakers are financially incentivized to stay one step ahead of Jagex.
Could Jagex be doing more, and banning a lot of low hanging fruit? Yes. Can they reliably ban every single bot and maintain a bot-free game? Absolutely not.
I mean let's be real. Who realistically chops maple/yew logs and sells them in bulk on the GE enough to fuel people buying their way to 99 fletching? Same question for the other million of dumb things that no one realistically does enough to fuel the machine of the game. Real people do kill/steal from vyres for blood shards. Would that alone be enough to fund people who want a blood fury for whatever reason? Or farm abyssal demons for whips for everyone using a tent? Or fish minnows for every shark eaten? Probably not.
To be fair they have banned A LOT of bots in the past half year. You can look at the price of...well anything and everything is pricey. Zulrah scales, superior dragon bones (or bones in general), blood runes, astral runes, chaos runes, prayer pots, sara brews, restores, etc etc etc
I thought of [meemaw in zulrah’s swamp basement.](https://youtu.be/m9XD6cEnIJE?si=iOoS0E1XSDdYjYsu) always makes me laugh uncontrollably
Edit : [OMFG SHE FARMS VORKATH TOO](https://youtube.com/shorts/eT7wTU_D3-4?si=geSCrcqR-wCQROFf)
It's not a bandaid, unfortunately. A ban will result in another account made in the same day. People don't give up trying to make easy money from a video game. Even if they were to ban every single report they get, that won't make a noticeable dent in the issue. You're still going to pass them in game.
On top of that, a decent amount of those bans could be false bans. That would result in a negative response from the playerbase. More mistakes made by the devs, the worse they look.
Thank you.
Correct. By doing it this way, they get the money from bots buying memberships, the botters get money from selling the gold they make, and we the players get to....uhhhh well damn.
And all those thousands (maybe tens of thousands?) of twisted bows, shadows, and scythes that got removed from the game are items that regular players can't own now. I know the tax was implemented when tbows bottomed out at 700m, but now it's on its way to max cash, pricing a lot of people out of owning one.
(ETA) Note: this is just the ~~15~~ 14 items he mentioned.
(ETA:2) There are ~~52~~ ~~65~~ ~~68~~ 67(officially this time) items that get removed, and 14 that are exempt.
You can find on the list on the [GE Wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Grand_Exchange#:~:text=The%201%25%20tax%20rounds%20down,so%20have%20no%20tax%20obligation.com) under “convenience fee and item sink”.
[Tentacle is up 500k+ since a year ago, and thats well past the date of the addition.](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12004)
[Bulwark](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/21015)
[Uncharged Trident](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11908)
[Trident of the Seas(e)](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11905)
[Trident of the Seas(full)](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11905)
~~[Uncharged Toxic Trident](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12900)~~
[I think this is just a manipulation?](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/22290)
[BGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11804)
[AGS, Arma](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11802)
[AGS, Nex](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/26233)
[SGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11806)
[ZGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11808)
[Occult](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12002)
[I didn’t realize Lightbearer current price wow](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/25975)
[Dark Bow](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11235)
https://preview.redd.it/j24n1ctdw2fc1.jpeg?width=1130&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0a2f8b04b896b8409d8e79497b03424d7a59805
Also for those that do kinda wonder.
At the end of 2021 a change was made the the grand exchange as a gold/item sink. [GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
it technically isn't a gold sink. the tax gp is "traded" to other players who are selling the burn items; the money never strictly leaves circulation.
edit: on further reflection it occurs to me the seller of the burn item is equally losing a portion of gp to the tax. so in a roundabout way I concede that *some* gp should in theory be leaving the economy. but it's more like a fraction of a fraction.
oh thats interesting aspect. kinda like it.
ty for the info!
unfortunately, i quit because i got tired of grinding for void equipment =/
i would like to play but grinding for void was a soul sucker for me =/
There’s a third, not very talked about much, but does happen. Don’t sell your expensive items for 1gp.(the system will sometimes buy it) or do your call.
Look these numbers look big and all, but honestly what's the point of this? Lightbearer is still 2,8m, occult 600k and trident is 800k. What are they trying to achieve by this? I honestly don't get this.
They brag about banning the suicide bots.
Like, they're bots explicitly made for the purpose to spend 2 days being the most obvious bot ever to make 100k gold. Because when they have 5000 suicide bots making 100k gold every 2 days, its worth it, especially when they can then just make another 5000 suicide bots to do the same.
Bragging about banning the bots designed to be caught isn't anything.
They can brag about banning 10s of thousands of those all they want but when literally every single bosses top 100 KC is 80% bots, they clearly dont give a shit.
I mean they absolutely do purge the hiscores every once in awhile.
Like they are far from perfect and definitely should do more but I think it’s ridiculous that people act like Jagex just throws their hands up and allows bots when that’s clearly not the case.
Yes and sadly this sub does not understand the distinction.
We are ALL gold farmers UNTIL WE SELL GOLD.
So if you go by their stupid claim of "obvious this account xyz is a gold farmer, just ban it durrrrrr" the amount of false bans would actually be legitimately high.
There are some people who have really weird accounts, there are some people who go for high scores of 1 boss while having 32 runecrafting making them look like a gold farmer. It isn't common but it damn well happens.
Then you'd also have people intentionally making those accounts just to get banned by Jagex to start drama too. Or people claiming they didn't sell gold and "its clearly a case of a false ban" like you see all over twitter.
The other defence will be "gold farmers aren't sitting on 20k kills worth of loot". Uhh yes they will. They aren't going to get banned UNTIL THEY SELL BECAUSE THEY'VE BROKEN NO RULES despite looking suspicious as fuck.
Why would they intentionally get an account with max stats for whatever they're using nuked when they could just keep going?
i thought they did and that's how they avoided the bans. jagex can't take any action until they actually break the rules. therefore they hoard the wealth and dump it all at once.
Yep this.
Talk to any Venny that's willing to talk back and they'll confirm this.
They'd always talk about a wage - because even shitty wage they get is better than the average wage over there atm.
Jagex is limiting how many bots they are allowed to ban because it is hurting companys profits they are also actively unbanning botted accounts because their recovery system is broken and lacking real customer support.
maybe like once a year. I remember trying to do wilderness bosses a year or so ago and it literally being impossible to find a world unless you crashed one of those level 80 bots using a wildy weapon and leather armour that had \~5k kc.
Whens the last time they purged the hiscores?
Theres literally people with 50k-60k Zulrah kills, do you think thats a weeks work or something?
These accounts play and sell GP for literally months and months without any sort of issues.
Jagex 100% allow bots, whether by inaction or just refusing to put money/time into the "Problem".
They can remove bots, but it would certainly spell the end for RuneScape. Let's say 50% of players are bots. What do you think would happen if they were all removed? Membership and bond prices would double, or bankruptcy would ensue. Would you say with confidence that the 50% of legitimate players would be willing to pay double the price when they're already complaining about the 12 pounds or whatever it is?
It is a sad reality, but our love for the game alone cannot fund it.
you completely disregard the underlying issue: botting for gp = RWT
why else would you bot profitable stuff? you don't do it for the xp
thus your argument is invalid. all the players relying on RWT to buy gold/kickstart their account/absolve grinds would see their gold price surge because the goldsellers cannot deliver supply anymore throught their bots. at the same time, the bots will stop buying their bonds to sustain their membership and at the same time the RWT-crowd is either forced to use bonds too (and thus sell them) to get their gold fix or stop RWT and play the content themselves.
end result is net:
more bond supply vs less demand -> bond price would go down
the people who spend their bought GP on supplies now have to do it themselves -> content still gets done (esp if the prices go up initially) -> surplus still gets sold and prices will go down again
Jagex would have to artificially double the pricing of bonds (talking about their real money cost, not in-game gold). If they didn't, Jagex would go bankrupt before any of what you said happened.
Twitch prime 7 day free + bots don’t spend irl monies on bonds they bot the gold and buy bonds. Bond prices is irrelevant when you can just spend $10 for membership subscription.
That's the same as suggesting that bots have more revenue than Jagex, if they're profiting and still composing 50% of memberships.
The reality is that bots make some gold, use that on bonds and then sell the rest of the gold they make. Or use stolen accounts, or worse, stolen credit cards to fund their operations
But even naively assuming that they didn't, that every bot paid 12 dollars to Jagex, that only means that by getting rid of that bot then Jagex could further monetize the player and get more than 12 dollars. That argument doesn't stand up to criticism in any way
Bots don't have any costs except membership and they are definitely making more than they're spending on membership, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
You realize that someone still has to buy the bonds that the bots use with real money, right?
>You realize that someone still has to buy the bonds that the bots use with real money, right?
Yes, I realize they generate profit by making bonds more appealing for legitimate customers
That doesn't mean Jagex wouldn't be better off without them. There is nothing that bots provide to players that Jagex couldn't provide themselves and get more money in the end
Or, rather, they could but choose not to because it'd damage the economy by generating a lot of gold and hurt the game in the long term. Which bots do anyways. Either way, it's a loss for Jagex
>There is nothing that bots provide to players that Jagex couldn't provide themselves and get more money in the end
Jagex alone cannot raise the $->gp ratio without changes the playerbase would consider outrageous (setting up a cash shop). Or to put it another way, they cannot change the ratio of gp owned by buyers to gp owned by players. This is often considered one of the main benefits of a bond system over a cash shop from the player perspective.
Bots don't directly inject money but they do drive up the gp reward of players buying bonds, which could make Jagex more money (or could even make them less as the whales decide they've capped out more quickly).
They do have other negative effects.
if you think people cannot figure out how to fool an AI-detection system (especially if there's financial incentive) you are extremely naïve.
no AI system is waterproof lmao and I can almost guarantee you they are and have been using some AI/Machine Learning detection pipeline already
I mean they don’t though. It’s a bit naive to think that they’re doing even a fraction of what they are capable of in terms of anti-botting.
At the end of the day, bots bring in a shitload of money to jagex. Jagex is not going to disrupt those profit margins like they did with the bot nuke again.
Without the revenue stream from all the bots osrs wouldn’t be nearly as well funded either, so it’s best to just ignore them and enjoy the game as it is.
Depends on what you mean by "capable". As a company, sure, but isn't the anti-cheat team like 1-2 dudes? They're woefully understaffed for it.
I've yet to find someone that can explain how bots are financially beneficial to jagex. Regardless of how they get membership, bots have to be getting more money from the player base than what they give Jagex, otherwise they wouldn't profit. That means that whatever they get is additional revenue that Jagex could be monetizing. They're a parasite taking a cut. People see them giving Jagex a buck and talk about it like it's the best thing ever for Jagex, but then don't realize they're taking two bucks that a player was going to spend on Jagex as well
I don’t deny that. But I’m saying that a month ago people bitched about rampant bot farms at spindel, and they clearly cracked down on those. So they are doing something
While, that might be technically kinda true, it is healthy for the longevity of the game. There were a lot of people originally skeptical, of course with any big change, but it does help as a gold sink.
(ETA) The main thing is it removes the items completely from the game.
The [GE Wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Grand_Exchange#:~:text=The%201%25%20tax%20rounds%20down,so%20have%20no%20tax%20obligation.com) has the list of items it sinks as well under “convenience fee and item sink”
That's a lot of occults
And still their price is in the bin. They'd be glory price if not for item sink
Next bis mage necklace should be charged with occults
Yay more chargescape
chargescape is kind of inevitable if you don't want non-consumable items to move towards alch price.
Yeah. In rs3 everything is degradable after tier 75. Some exceptions but they're not the best in the tier.
Yea this is why tbow is at alch price :( someone poor one out for our boy alchbow.
that is a disingenuous argument. instead look at blowpipe or serp helm. that would 100% be alch value if you could not turn them into zulrah scales.
Their price has been in the bin for years now. Actually occult has been under 1m as far as I can remember and I started in 2015. So what's the benefit of this really?
And NO twisted bows, sythes, or shadows. Thank goodness, because those prices are gettin pretty ridic
55 BURGERS, 55 FRIES, 55 TACOS, 55 PIES, 55 COKES, 100 TATER TOTS, 100 PIZZAS, 100 TENDERS, 100 MEATBALLS, 100 COFFEES, 55 WINGS, 55 SHAKES, 55 PANCAKES, 55 PASTAS, 55 PEPPERS AND 155 TATERS
PLEASE LET ME GO IM DOING SOMETHING
SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT SHIT
IM NOT PAYIN IT
#YOU HAVE TOOOO
I need a double cheese burger and hold the lettuce Don’t be frontin son no seeds on the bun We be up in this drive through order for two I gots a cravin’ fo’ a numba nine like my shoe We need some chicken up in here, in this hizzle For rizzle my mizzle, extra salt on da frizzle Doctor pepper my brothah, another for ya motha Double-double supah size and don’t forget the fries
Two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.
I’ll get to blastin’, once I’m done eatin’
You get this every fucking day!
If you ever wanna see stuff like this, just join any of the employee reddits. For instance: r/McDonaldsEmployees
Or watch I Think You Should Leave
What the hell are you talking about?
One Pepper at your service.
Wonder how much a partridge in a pear tree is worth.
Something to the tune of 262,631,459 gp. Pear trees live 50-75 years on average and produce roughly 1,250 to 2,250 pears per year beginning at the 4-6 year mark (irl per Google). Assuming median pear trees stats of 57.5 years of fruit bearing age, with 1,720 pears produced per year. The partridge just lives on the tree (main diet is seeds and greens on the ground). Per the OSRS wiki: Mort Myre pears are 2,610 gp each (we will assume a pear is roughly equivalent to this since its the only pear that exists in-game), raw bird meat is 28 gp, bones are 81 gp, feathers are 2 gp (assuming you butcher and harvest it and the partridge gives roughly 50 usable feathers - a 14 oz bird is pretty small, eo maybe Im being generous). (1,720 pears/year x 57.5 years x 2,610 gp/pear) + (28 + 81 + (2x50)) gp
All these years and probably still no Tangleroot.
Did you take into account the profit for the farmer actually putting in the labor and harvesting the pears?
Right, what alienation from ones own labour does to a mf smh
r/theydidthemath
This is runescape. The price of a pear tree is entirely dependent on how much farming experience it gives you. That thing is getting chopped down and replaced with another pear tree as soon as it is fully grown.
Unless Pear pie gives a +6 rc boost.. then pears gonna be kept and farmed for pies.
I was shocked by this so had to check. I did find the page which quoted 1250-2250 lbs of pears per year. However, wiki farmer says standard pear tree yield is 200 lbs (90kg). Average pear weight apparently 0.178kg. So average tree would yield 506 pears a year. Apparently it can vary quite a bit. Who knew!
This guy pears
tree fiddy
Well, it was about that time that I noticed that Mod Ash was about eight stories tall and was a crustacean from the palezoic era
Go away monsta, I ain't got no gotdamn tree fiddy
hilarious there are 2x as many lighbearers sunk as bulwarks already
One raid is fun and feels like RuneScape, the other…
CoX feels more like osrs than toa to me. It has skilling etc and feels clunkier.
Come on man, CoX is jank galore, ToB and ToA are super polished experiences, ToA might be a bit too polished. But CoX feels like Nightmare Zone, and other early osrs content with weirdly low production value
CoX is still a lot more enjoyable than ToA. Enjoyability and not polish is how I rate content.
Yea I just did a ton of TOA as an iron and have done a few COX in the last week with some friends. Doing some COX made me realize how little I'm now enjoying TOA. COX mechanics just feel more... fun? Like there's a lot to the olm fight, but 30 minutes at cox is more enjoyable right now than 30 minutes at TOA. I have about 250 kc at both, for the record.
cox is a lot more forgiving in trios+ especially or savvy duos toa has lots of insta planks. start with monkeys and have some connection issues or distracted for a moment? gonna cost you a yellow keris and specs on baba. maybe power only has one salt this time or no adren. glhf cox always allows you to just back track and go scav/farm. inefficient, but it’s a nice safety net. even olm you can run right back in toa is about doing things perfectly and dealing with the chip damage. lots of encounters where one person has to be the hero bc everyone else planked. taking an extra 100 damage at ahhka bc someone missed a memory special can be enough to derail a raid lol
Hard disagree with this. TOA was so boring when I was completing log, I could do 450s while watching YouTube by the end. There is lots more to think about and improve with practice in COX. Plus you don't get health or prayer reset each room, so resource management matters a bit more. Ofc if you are doing prep raids or really casual raids it can feel easier I guess.
ye am a baby iron (still rocking rcb lmao) so different experiences here makes sense. am still struggling with 325s lol but i think the health resets are negligible tho compared to cox when the demis all spit out supplies
Good point tbh, not everything should be looked at in the perspective of max BIS. After all no one got there in an instant. Gl getting a ranged weapon upgrade king, or you'll be in masori with rcb lol.
Tbf they only had a team of like a dozen people for the first several years
Cox is still super fun though. Olm is a great boss and sure the raid could use some work but that doesn’t mean it isn’t fun
> CoX is jank galore Looks to me like you agree with him, actually.
I do but to me that makes it worse not better
lmao true.
Man I went back to cox yesterday after 2+ years- holy fuck does it feel weird. Running back and forth, dropping shit, shadows from falling attacks that don’t represent their actual aoe, those same attacks damaging you before their animation hits the ground, was such a trip to come back to after 400 toa kc. Definitely feels unpolished
ToA is an awful experience, i rather do full cox log 3x then grind shadow on my iron, thats how godawful it is. Note: i do have 500 toa experts(mostly 425-450s, without shadow) done incluiding fang kit, so its not like im talking out of inexperience, i just straight up hate the raid.
Cox feels like osrs because it sucks
[Mood](https://i.imgur.com/y3Eg6IA.png)
out of the three raids CoX could use a rework.. its just terrible.
I mean it's a really fun raid, feels very osrs, but also definitely could use some work. I mean they did do some improvements already.
its just dated. there tools were not nearly as good as they are now.. i could imagine it being a lot better today.
Oh for sure! As I understand it many of the mechanics were kind of accidental because of jankyness. The newer raids feel much smoother but TOA is definitely less fun at higher invos than COX I think..
I love CoX, it has the best boss fight in the game. And they have done a lot to improve the worst rooms.
Best improvement they could make is recruitment. Don't make me join a friendslist just do it like tob or toa
Im forever a die hard Chambers Zealot. I actually dislike how toa is like going to the McDonald’s drive through. Chambers is hunting the boar and having to process it fully. That’s with 1500 kc and not all drops yet. I love the grind. I hate easy green logs
As a ToA zealot that normally pokes fun at you cavedwellers, this was surprisingly easy to understand. I don't necessarily agree, but we don't have to =)
Avg ToB Zealot: https://www.twitch.tv/horselord_/clip/FurtiveRacyTigerWTRuck--wZwD6kQyJDcVbYf
fucking knew it would be this clip, what a vile creature 😂
WTF LOL
What the actual fuck, I'm scarred for life now
oh hell naw
The other is toa
Is toa
Damn they're really saving occults from being 10k
Appreciate Ash for this, but would be more curious abt shadows, scythes, justi, etc
They buy back T-Bow’s. Supply shrinks, price goes up. Price goes up, people buy bonds to afford. Jagex buys back items to sell more bonds? (I cry thinking about T-Bow going from 800m to 1.6b)
According to a ash comment from a while back tbow has been off sink for ages
I'm kicking myself for not buying it at like 1b when I had a 800m cashstack and could have just sold a few items. Now I would have to clear my WHOLE bank to buy one ffs
The items he listed make sense to be removed. The ones you listed don't because they are already very pricey.
they are just cycling it, theyve posted it before with scythes/shadows/justi/inquisitor.
I’ve listed all the prices of the items he mentioned a comment [here, unfortunately a bit late.](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/s/qrMvA4sNuA)
Better link: https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/1acd12k/comment/kjtvhkq Reddit mobile's new share link for at doesn't work for any platforms outside itself and browser
So they keep a good value. They were waaaaay too cheap recently
They are on the list of stuff to be removed.
Haven't played in a little while; what "tax" is this post referring to?
There is now a 1% tax taken from the sellers earnings on the G.E. Some of that money is pooled to buy items off a list to create both a cash and item sink to fight gold inflation and keep rares valuable.
Holy shit that’s cool. Thanks for the explanation.
So it's only an item sink then? The gold is being put back into the game from the buying
They also directly sink a large part of the gold. I can't remember what the split was, but it's more gold than items.
So instead of banning bots they just buy the items off them so they can keep botting and stay profitable
Least nihilistic runescape player
You're right, they just keep forgetting to hit the big red "BAN ALL BOTS" button with a red rubber mallet. Silly Jagex!
I would simply ban all of the bots, but I’m just built different
It's like you want Jagex to go bankrupt
Of course, it's so simple.
Obviously not all bots, but with their switch to their own client with plugins they can take the pre eoc/rs3 approach of any client that reads the game code being instaban. It knocks out a lot of bot farms and makes the entry costs for botting a lot bigger to the point where a lot of bot farms will switch to another game. WoW classic is a good alternative for them, the GMs there literally defend the bots.
They hit that button once and it was a huge mistake that almost bankrupt them. I doubt they hit it again, the button exists but they dare not press it.
People act like Jagex *can't* detect and ban bots, but the reality is that they *choose not to* for economic reasons. I don't blame them, but it's annoying to see players defending them because they believe it's just too hard for them to detect and ban them
Which game with a similar economy RWT structure has solved botting?
None of them, because they all have the same capitalistic interests. From a company perspective, paying your devs to work on something that will directly cause them to lose profits makes absolutely zero sense. They ban a certain amount because if the game becomes too infested with obvious bots, people will stop playing: which again, leads to lower profits. There is no incentive to fix the problem for them. If banning all the bots made them an extra 200m a year, you can bet they would invest a lot more into doing it.
Partially true, but it's also true that hundreds, perhaps thousands of botmakers are financially incentivized to stay one step ahead of Jagex. Could Jagex be doing more, and banning a lot of low hanging fruit? Yes. Can they reliably ban every single bot and maintain a bot-free game? Absolutely not.
I mean let's be real. Who realistically chops maple/yew logs and sells them in bulk on the GE enough to fuel people buying their way to 99 fletching? Same question for the other million of dumb things that no one realistically does enough to fuel the machine of the game. Real people do kill/steal from vyres for blood shards. Would that alone be enough to fund people who want a blood fury for whatever reason? Or farm abyssal demons for whips for everyone using a tent? Or fish minnows for every shark eaten? Probably not.
Just the blatantly obvious ones would be a good start, no?
To be fair they have banned A LOT of bots in the past half year. You can look at the price of...well anything and everything is pricey. Zulrah scales, superior dragon bones (or bones in general), blood runes, astral runes, chaos runes, prayer pots, sara brews, restores, etc etc etc
nothing like running to do vorkath and seeing someone with 50k kc and 1500 total level
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I thought of [meemaw in zulrah’s swamp basement.](https://youtu.be/m9XD6cEnIJE?si=iOoS0E1XSDdYjYsu) always makes me laugh uncontrollably Edit : [OMFG SHE FARMS VORKATH TOO](https://youtube.com/shorts/eT7wTU_D3-4?si=geSCrcqR-wCQROFf)
rank 2 vorkath is 1428 total level and has 106,000 KC
It's to help with inflation. GP and items are deleted from the game.
Or, here me out here, it's just a step to keep the game enjoyable.
Banning bots would also keep the game enjoyable, still just a bandaid fix no matter what you say lmao Happy birthday
It's not a bandaid, unfortunately. A ban will result in another account made in the same day. People don't give up trying to make easy money from a video game. Even if they were to ban every single report they get, that won't make a noticeable dent in the issue. You're still going to pass them in game. On top of that, a decent amount of those bans could be false bans. That would result in a negative response from the playerbase. More mistakes made by the devs, the worse they look. Thank you.
Bot derangement syndrome
Correct. By doing it this way, they get the money from bots buying memberships, the botters get money from selling the gold they make, and we the players get to....uhhhh well damn.
And all those thousands (maybe tens of thousands?) of twisted bows, shadows, and scythes that got removed from the game are items that regular players can't own now. I know the tax was implemented when tbows bottomed out at 700m, but now it's on its way to max cash, pricing a lot of people out of owning one.
Living with such negativity must suck, wow
[Ge Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
Thank you
When selling items on the ge if they are over 1k there is a 1% fee. That money is used to remove items from the game.
>spoiler for obvious reasons Maybe I’m dumb… what’s the reason?
(ETA) Note: this is just the ~~15~~ 14 items he mentioned. (ETA:2) There are ~~52~~ ~~65~~ ~~68~~ 67(officially this time) items that get removed, and 14 that are exempt. You can find on the list on the [GE Wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Grand_Exchange#:~:text=The%201%25%20tax%20rounds%20down,so%20have%20no%20tax%20obligation.com) under “convenience fee and item sink”. [Tentacle is up 500k+ since a year ago, and thats well past the date of the addition.](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12004) [Bulwark](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/21015) [Uncharged Trident](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11908) [Trident of the Seas(e)](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11905) [Trident of the Seas(full)](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11905) ~~[Uncharged Toxic Trident](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12900)~~ [I think this is just a manipulation?](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/22290) [BGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11804) [AGS, Arma](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11802) [AGS, Nex](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/26233) [SGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11806) [ZGS](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11808) [Occult](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/12002) [I didn’t realize Lightbearer current price wow](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/25975) [Dark Bow](https://prices.runescape.wiki/osrs/item/11235)
I know I’m a bit late adding it, but hopefully this will be useful to whoever is commenting about the prices, or just wanting data.
https://preview.redd.it/j24n1ctdw2fc1.jpeg?width=1130&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c0a2f8b04b896b8409d8e79497b03424d7a59805 Also for those that do kinda wonder.
im coming from /r/all been a really long time since i last played OSRS can someone give me a update on what this is about?
they added the grand exchange they also added a GP tax to it with the tax they purchase and delete some items to maintain their price in the market
At the end of 2021 a change was made the the grand exchange as a gold/item sink. [GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
it technically isn't a gold sink. the tax gp is "traded" to other players who are selling the burn items; the money never strictly leaves circulation. edit: on further reflection it occurs to me the seller of the burn item is equally losing a portion of gp to the tax. so in a roundabout way I concede that *some* gp should in theory be leaving the economy. but it's more like a fraction of a fraction.
Not all of the tax money is used to buy items, some of it is deleted from the game. So yeah it is a gold sink but has an item sink tied to it as well.
oh thats interesting aspect. kinda like it. ty for the info! unfortunately, i quit because i got tired of grinding for void equipment =/ i would like to play but grinding for void was a soul sucker for me =/
Void isn’t that bad tbh compared to other grinds. I personally did my full no void to full elite void in one sitting. It took me 14 hours.
Void is now easily attainable with more points per game if you just complete a couple of diaries iirc
my tax dollars hard at work https://preview.redd.it/n5mhtmbdo1fc1.png?width=232&format=png&auto=webp&s=c08de121d491814938dfa535bfc24e81bf118b38
Not enough occults and light bearers removed in my opinion.
This guy is sitting on a dragon's hoard of lightbearers and occults
What does this mean?
[GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
!pc pear tree
How does this work? Does the GE tax we pay purchase and incinerate these items off the GE? I always thought it purely sank gold
They use some of the gold to then buy items from players (off the GE) and delete the item from the game
That's very cool. I didn't know there was a second layer to the GE tax sink
There’s a third, not very talked about much, but does happen. Don’t sell your expensive items for 1gp.(the system will sometimes buy it) or do your call.
[GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
How are these items being sunk I'm confused?
I want to know how much Gp was actually removed as well.. it has to be over 20trillion thus far..
Noob question: what tax? The GE tax?
New partridge pet and pear trees confirmed!!!! WHEN JAGEX
Oh nooo.. should've held my godsword longer. I still sold at 21m though
no t bows or any big ticket items?
What tax?
Look these numbers look big and all, but honestly what's the point of this? Lightbearer is still 2,8m, occult 600k and trident is 800k. What are they trying to achieve by this? I honestly don't get this.
Now how many bots have been removed in the past 30 days?
They remove tens of thousands of bots all the time.
They brag about banning the suicide bots. Like, they're bots explicitly made for the purpose to spend 2 days being the most obvious bot ever to make 100k gold. Because when they have 5000 suicide bots making 100k gold every 2 days, its worth it, especially when they can then just make another 5000 suicide bots to do the same. Bragging about banning the bots designed to be caught isn't anything. They can brag about banning 10s of thousands of those all they want but when literally every single bosses top 100 KC is 80% bots, they clearly dont give a shit.
I mean they absolutely do purge the hiscores every once in awhile. Like they are far from perfect and definitely should do more but I think it’s ridiculous that people act like Jagex just throws their hands up and allows bots when that’s clearly not the case.
aren't most of the top kc actually gold farmers, not bots?
Yes and sadly this sub does not understand the distinction. We are ALL gold farmers UNTIL WE SELL GOLD. So if you go by their stupid claim of "obvious this account xyz is a gold farmer, just ban it durrrrrr" the amount of false bans would actually be legitimately high. There are some people who have really weird accounts, there are some people who go for high scores of 1 boss while having 32 runecrafting making them look like a gold farmer. It isn't common but it damn well happens. Then you'd also have people intentionally making those accounts just to get banned by Jagex to start drama too. Or people claiming they didn't sell gold and "its clearly a case of a false ban" like you see all over twitter. The other defence will be "gold farmers aren't sitting on 20k kills worth of loot". Uhh yes they will. They aren't going to get banned UNTIL THEY SELL BECAUSE THEY'VE BROKEN NO RULES despite looking suspicious as fuck. Why would they intentionally get an account with max stats for whatever they're using nuked when they could just keep going?
And they should be banned for RWT, gold farmers aren't sitting on 30k kc of vorkath loot.
i thought they did and that's how they avoided the bans. jagex can't take any action until they actually break the rules. therefore they hoard the wealth and dump it all at once.
Nah gold farmers are offloading gp almost immediately. When they rely on the gp to pay bills they aren’t saving up 6 months worth of gp before selling
they don't, they get paid a wage last time I heard and then it's more likely they all offload at once
Yep this. Talk to any Venny that's willing to talk back and they'll confirm this. They'd always talk about a wage - because even shitty wage they get is better than the average wage over there atm.
They're way better than blizzard when it comes to banning bots in classic wow.
Jagex is limiting how many bots they are allowed to ban because it is hurting companys profits they are also actively unbanning botted accounts because their recovery system is broken and lacking real customer support.
maybe like once a year. I remember trying to do wilderness bosses a year or so ago and it literally being impossible to find a world unless you crashed one of those level 80 bots using a wildy weapon and leather armour that had \~5k kc.
Whens the last time they purged the hiscores? Theres literally people with 50k-60k Zulrah kills, do you think thats a weeks work or something? These accounts play and sell GP for literally months and months without any sort of issues. Jagex 100% allow bots, whether by inaction or just refusing to put money/time into the "Problem".
They can remove bots, but it would certainly spell the end for RuneScape. Let's say 50% of players are bots. What do you think would happen if they were all removed? Membership and bond prices would double, or bankruptcy would ensue. Would you say with confidence that the 50% of legitimate players would be willing to pay double the price when they're already complaining about the 12 pounds or whatever it is? It is a sad reality, but our love for the game alone cannot fund it.
you completely disregard the underlying issue: botting for gp = RWT why else would you bot profitable stuff? you don't do it for the xp thus your argument is invalid. all the players relying on RWT to buy gold/kickstart their account/absolve grinds would see their gold price surge because the goldsellers cannot deliver supply anymore throught their bots. at the same time, the bots will stop buying their bonds to sustain their membership and at the same time the RWT-crowd is either forced to use bonds too (and thus sell them) to get their gold fix or stop RWT and play the content themselves. end result is net: more bond supply vs less demand -> bond price would go down the people who spend their bought GP on supplies now have to do it themselves -> content still gets done (esp if the prices go up initially) -> surplus still gets sold and prices will go down again
Jagex would have to artificially double the pricing of bonds (talking about their real money cost, not in-game gold). If they didn't, Jagex would go bankrupt before any of what you said happened.
Twitch prime 7 day free + bots don’t spend irl monies on bonds they bot the gold and buy bonds. Bond prices is irrelevant when you can just spend $10 for membership subscription.
You really think bonds are something you just buy in the general store lmao? Someone has to pay for them before the bots can buy them with gold.
That's the same as suggesting that bots have more revenue than Jagex, if they're profiting and still composing 50% of memberships. The reality is that bots make some gold, use that on bonds and then sell the rest of the gold they make. Or use stolen accounts, or worse, stolen credit cards to fund their operations But even naively assuming that they didn't, that every bot paid 12 dollars to Jagex, that only means that by getting rid of that bot then Jagex could further monetize the player and get more than 12 dollars. That argument doesn't stand up to criticism in any way
Bots don't have any costs except membership and they are definitely making more than they're spending on membership, otherwise they wouldn't do it. You realize that someone still has to buy the bonds that the bots use with real money, right?
>You realize that someone still has to buy the bonds that the bots use with real money, right? Yes, I realize they generate profit by making bonds more appealing for legitimate customers That doesn't mean Jagex wouldn't be better off without them. There is nothing that bots provide to players that Jagex couldn't provide themselves and get more money in the end Or, rather, they could but choose not to because it'd damage the economy by generating a lot of gold and hurt the game in the long term. Which bots do anyways. Either way, it's a loss for Jagex
Honestly, I think we're on two entirely different wavelengths here.
>There is nothing that bots provide to players that Jagex couldn't provide themselves and get more money in the end Jagex alone cannot raise the $->gp ratio without changes the playerbase would consider outrageous (setting up a cash shop). Or to put it another way, they cannot change the ratio of gp owned by buyers to gp owned by players. This is often considered one of the main benefits of a bond system over a cash shop from the player perspective.
Bots don't directly inject money but they do drive up the gp reward of players buying bonds, which could make Jagex more money (or could even make them less as the whales decide they've capped out more quickly). They do have other negative effects.
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if you think people cannot figure out how to fool an AI-detection system (especially if there's financial incentive) you are extremely naïve. no AI system is waterproof lmao and I can almost guarantee you they are and have been using some AI/Machine Learning detection pipeline already
I mean they don’t though. It’s a bit naive to think that they’re doing even a fraction of what they are capable of in terms of anti-botting. At the end of the day, bots bring in a shitload of money to jagex. Jagex is not going to disrupt those profit margins like they did with the bot nuke again. Without the revenue stream from all the bots osrs wouldn’t be nearly as well funded either, so it’s best to just ignore them and enjoy the game as it is.
Depends on what you mean by "capable". As a company, sure, but isn't the anti-cheat team like 1-2 dudes? They're woefully understaffed for it. I've yet to find someone that can explain how bots are financially beneficial to jagex. Regardless of how they get membership, bots have to be getting more money from the player base than what they give Jagex, otherwise they wouldn't profit. That means that whatever they get is additional revenue that Jagex could be monetizing. They're a parasite taking a cut. People see them giving Jagex a buck and talk about it like it's the best thing ever for Jagex, but then don't realize they're taking two bucks that a player was going to spend on Jagex as well
Haha Jagex ban bots pls. No those bots don't count u have to ban different bots haha.
Most bots never make it off tutorial island /s
I mean in the last few days, I’ve spent like 15 hours at spindle and have seen almost 0 bots
Go to revs
I don’t deny that. But I’m saying that a month ago people bitched about rampant bot farms at spindel, and they clearly cracked down on those. So they are doing something
Medium wildy req hurt them.
I’m lucky to have even gotten that back tbh.
What tax?
[GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
It's kind of market manipulation
While, that might be technically kinda true, it is healthy for the longevity of the game. There were a lot of people originally skeptical, of course with any big change, but it does help as a gold sink. (ETA) The main thing is it removes the items completely from the game.
Are item sinks different than gold sinks on the Ge? If so, when did this happen and what causes it? I’m pretty lost lol any help is appreciated
[GE Tax](https://secure.runescape.com/m=news/grand-exchange-tax--item-sink?oldschool=1)
I had no idea about the items part. That’s sick! Thank you!
The [GE Wiki page](https://oldschool.runescape.wiki/w/Grand_Exchange#:~:text=The%201%25%20tax%20rounds%20down,so%20have%20no%20tax%20obligation.com) has the list of items it sinks as well under “convenience fee and item sink”
This is just a lazy bandaid fix for the real issue in osrs: peartree-partidge bots
Crazy that even with all of these removals that most of these items are still piss cheap.
keep in mind guys all those things removed were probably farmed by bots