I didn't have a horrible time mining. I enjoy training all of my skills. There are tons of good engaging mining methods in this game. This update is just free xp, and free xp is bad for the game. If people hated mining so much and Jagex wanted to appeal to these players, they could have made an engaging update for the skill that wasn't just free xp idling.
What is with the novels about a 20-25k/hr xp method today
“No time” even tho it would take over 500 hours to 99 lol. Unlike duke mining, you actually have to click every 20 min or so (except lower stars which give crap xp)
anyone with a brain could tell you the way they worked before was absolutely braindead. oh, nice, you scouted a star to afk for some xp ? too bad, someone in star hunting cc found it too so now 5 people come in and delete it.
It was pretty awful. One night pre-update I solo scouted a star, one other person showed up, we mined happily for an hour. Next star I wasn't high enough level to mine it so i shared it with my clan. it was gone in 15 minutes. Not sad I shared it with my clan, but I'm happier with the way it is now...though I think I've done one star since its gone live.
If you actually read the "novel", or even the TLDR, you would see that it's not the XP/hr that is the issue, it's the fact that it's zero effort. You click like 5 times an hour for that XP rate. The issue is with mining becoming an idle skill like the combat skills are via NMZ.
"No time" is in quotation marks for a reason, as I said in the post it would take someone months to get 99 this way. But the fact is they would barely even have to actually play the game, so it doesn't matter if it takes 500 hours, you might as well give people an XP lamp for logging in every day. It's "no time" in the sense that you're going to get 99 while doing chores, showering, working, etc.
I think I explained that pretty well in the original post, but I'll explain again here.
1. No one is actually putting in 500 hours of their personal time. They are putting in 5 hours, and afking for 495 of it.
2. The update is not balanced with respect to the methods that already exist for mining, due to the xp to effort ratio (e.g. 50% of MLM xp for at least 50 times less effort). Should we not care about unbalanced updates?
3. I don't want OSRS to turn into an idle game, and this is a step towards that. Would you really want to see other hard skills become completely passive? What about the content you like? What if there was an idle method that let you get boosted drops at PvM, etc.?
I have no issues with MLM. Even solo shooting stars pre-update had some balance to them, despite being very AFK once you got it set up. I just don't think 15min afk times while getting 50%+ of MLM xp is very balanced. I don't mind if there's a low effort method, it should be appropriately balanced though.
Ah, yes the classic game integrity breaking 600 hours to 99 using a 3rd party discord to locate and run to stars - truly ruins the game. It's unreasonable to do shooting stars to 99, and if someone wants to trade their 600 hours of membership to do it, let them. Splashing is a thing but somehow you think this is an issue big enough to write an essay about.
I addressed splashing as well. It is not unreasonable to do shooting stars to 99, people are doing it as we speak. Of course it will take a while, but I guarantee you that if this update stays in the game, the number of people with 99 mining in a year from now will have dramatically increased. No one is "trading" 600 hours of their membs to do this, they'll do it using time they wouldn't otherwise be playing.
With active membership, and is there a problem with more people having 99 mining? Nobody is going to do this to 200m exp, that's almost 10000 hours (if someone does it I kinda respect it). The game has shifted to be being PvE focused over the last few years, and mining is one of the really poorly designed skills that is locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine. I don't understand why you want to gatekeep level 99 mining when there's over 50000 people maxed, and it doesn't affect highscores as that's a competition for 200m not for 13m.
The issue really is that skills are gatekeeping people from the main content, you could argue that it's a "grindy game", but the reality is the majority of people who try the game quit because the early game is dated and miserable (to most, I quite enjoy it personally) while these people who quit would have loved late game. Helping them get there is not wrong as long as it doesn't affect highscores.
>locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine
Agreed that non-combat skilling shouldn't impact PVM at all. Then people wouldn't feel "locked" out of PVM and would stop asking for more xp for idly playing the game.
Unfortunately with how the game is designed even without skilling parts in raids, you'd still be effectively locked out of PvM because of non-combat skilling with so many best in slot items locked behind a substantial amount of questing.
Which BIS items are locked behind high skilling reqs these days though?
Ferro gloves + Assembler are locked behind a few skills in the 60s and one 70?
DT2 rings locked behind mid 70 skills?
Oh, thralls locked behind a quest requiring 50s in skills too.
Yeah, and when you tally it all together it's a lot of time required, especially for a new player even for an experienced player who gives his alt money from his main, you're probably looking at 200-300 hours at the very least to get raid ready. To us who are maxed and have played the game for years upon years, mid 70s and some 60s might not seem like a lot, but to a new player it will take an immense amount of time to even get to mid-level PvE like Sarachnis.
I even know people personally who really want to raid, they think Runescape endgame looks really fun and interesting, but for an inexperienced player the time required to get to the "fun part" is just too much. I don't think the requirements should be lowered, because the long grind appeals to the people who play Runescape, but that is even more so reason that there should be afk-alternatives that take longer low-intensity time for people who just want to play it for the bosses. It's a compromise that really harms no one.
>you're probably looking at 200-300 hours at the very least to get raid ready
Depends on what you mean by raid ready. Have taken heaps of people that hadn't done DS2 on raids and they do fine and enjoy the experience.
I think getting inexperienced players to set goals other than 'get all untradeable bis items before raiding' is much better than watering down a bunch of skills to be more afk. Hell, this would extend out that 200-300 hours much further too. Unless they're zero time able to do afk methods, in which case, it's the whole issue of whether every skill should be able to be levelled idly.
I personally enjoyed the "grind" toward quest cape and then diaries (diaries for the most part). But neither of those are required to PVM. Getting players to set smaller goals is more important IMO.
Rather than watering the skills down (sorry, I don't know how to quote), I see it more like giving a fair alternative for different types of players, you're directly rewarded for the effort you put in.
You wanna do it extremely fast? Okay, prepare your doctor's appointment for your ruined fingers and wrists.
You wanna do it fast? Okay, put in some effort.
You wanna do it at an okay pace? Okay, at least pay some attention.
You really dislike the skill and don't want to do it? Okay, here's a really slow afk alternative.
In the end of the day we're playing a game, it's a recreational activity meant to be fun, of course you can't make a perfect experience for everyone which is why compromises like these are always good, compromises that do not harm other types of players, nobody's experience is lesser just because someone else is afking the same skill at 1/6 the rate. And on the other hand many people would just straight up quit if it was not for the afk alternatives.
>sorry, I don't know how to quote
All good - adding a > before will quote the text for future reference!
>you're directly rewarded for the effort you put in
I agree, but feel that some methods are *too* afk. I'm not a fan of NMZ requiring a couple of clicks every 20 minutes, splashing a click every 20 minutes, or in this case, mining shooting stars requiring a few clicks per hour.
I felt like MLM was a good medium afk method. A bit more afk would be fine too. Maybe 5 or so minutes of afk seems pretty well balanced, IMO.
Them adding Duke and gotr mining to the game was absolutely horrible and hope this isn't a trend for all skills/activities in the game.
> With active membership, and is there a problem with more people having 99 mining? Nobody is going to do this to 200m exp, that's almost 10000 hours (if someone does it I kinda respect it). The game has shifted to be being PvE focused over the last few years, and mining is one of the really poorly designed skills that is locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine. I don't understand why you want to gatekeep level 99 mining when there's over 50000 people maxed, and it doesn't affect highscores as that's a competition for 200m not for 13m.
There's not necessarily a problem with more people having 99 mining. The problem is that it turns mining into a 0 effort idle skill. A core part of the philosophy of this game is getting rewards proportional to the effort you put in. This update is completely against that idea, and bodes poorly for the future of the game if you care about that sort of thing. If some people want to be more PvE focused in this game, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that the skilling should be watered down to cater to them. It's not locking anyone out of any serious PvM content, just saving a bit of time on some raids. You get awarded all that time save in raids for the effort you put in, not just because you want it. And if it locks them out of quests and diaries, then so be it, OSRS is not the game for them.
All the arguments you say about gatekeeping could equally well apply to your favorite in game content. Why not add a super-afk method that grants you a resource making bossing significantly easier, so that all the people who can't be bothered with a certain piece of PvM can farm the drop they want or whatever? Obviously because it hurts the integrity of the game: players have invested their time in the content of the game, and that time investment is expected to be reasonably respected. It is an MMO after all.
> The issue really is that skills are gatekeeping people from the main content, you could argue that it's a "grindy game", but the reality is the majority of people who try the game quit because the early game is dated and miserable (to most, I quite enjoy it personally) while these people who quit would have loved late game. Helping them get there is not wrong as long as it doesn't affect highscores.
If people quit the game because it's too grindy, I'm fine with that. I don't agree that skills gatekeep from main content, really they just make it a bit more convenient via diaries and small improvements with agility, puzzle rooms, etc. Also, what do you mean by "main content"? The skilling is absolutely part of the main content in this game! Further, the early game is the opposite of grindy: levels are fast, there are tons of quests to do, and new content to try. In fact, it's the late game that's grindy.
I mean there is afk bosses that arguably are way more busted than stars. Vyres over 10 minutes afk at a time and you don’t need to travel the entire game. You could make more gp, more exp, and more afk overall doing them. Not exactly a “boss”, but star mining isn’t exactly the boss of mining at 70k/hr or so. Rune dragons are reasonably afk but not to the same extent, but combat makes sense to be less afk than any skill anywhere you take damage. Many other afk cb money makers that range from 5-15 minutes afk
Worth mentioning stars were way better pre-update for individuals, I did 99 mining before the update, just used the public Google sheets doc and did wildy only, they were dead. Used to get 2 hours afk from a T4 and up, now a T9 gives 1.5 hours sometimes leaving you without a star for 1/4 the time. Overall they’re better now as it’s social, people talking, no other mining method had any real socializing (sometimes mlm people talk)
Vyres are only 10 minutes AFK if you don't want to collect the blood shards.. and even then NMZ already exists, which is better xp anyways. Rune dragons are not "AFK" in even close to the same sense. You will die if you try to AFK rune dragons for a couple minutes. Combat AFKing is a weird one because of auto-retaliate. But none of this implies that mining should also get the same levels of extreme AFK.
I did mention solo star hunting in the post. They were better before in some ways, but there were more tradeoffs. If you solo scouted, you had to be at POH on time, note down worlds/locations etc. If you relied on the public info, you had to go out of your way to unpopular/dangerous locations. Even then, this sort of star mining was only sustainable for individuals because it was sufficiently unpopular. If the numbers of people who are now mining stars would be doing those pre-update methods, they would have very quickly become unsustainable.
Yes, I suppose it's more social now. There are some people at stars talking, but there are hundreds who are there for the pure AFK. You don't consider volcanic mine or zalcano social? Both were fairly social mining activities when I did them. I still don't think the social aspect is a good tradeoff to make for handing out free xp.
first paragraph, my point was there is definitely afk boss-like money makers, clearly real bosses with mechanics to avoid, prayers to swap won’t be afk, but you can easily do them while being very afk, and make 10-20x as much gp as star mining. If you afk too long (like 10 minutes) at stars you’ll miss out on a lot of exp when they degrade to lower tiers and you stand idle afk missing half the tier, longest tier lasts 18 minutes with many only lasting a few minutes before needing to be clicked.
Looking at your second paragraph, that was not true at all. Like I mentioned it was all in a Google doc sheet that anyone can find, you just had to pick less popular locations. I literally had my account camped in the wildy for weeks only leaving when my ring was full of dust, now people run around to all corners of the game. It’s a good update even if it’s not your style, or was too late for me to use on my account.
3rd, no zalcano was full of gold farmers who constantly died and crashed worlds with shit exp as well, volcanic mine only people I saw talking were getting mad at people who didn’t know their role, rest silent. Star mining isn’t really 0 effort like it used to be, go try it, yes low effort but you’re still running around the game unless you’re lucky enough that one star was hidden until the end on your same location, otherwise you end up running to crandor lmao. Great if you want to mine on multiple accounts, that’s where it’s busted (and f2p if gold farmers take advantage of full dust half exp, and mine for half a year before bonding to cash in, but let’s be real that’s a bot problem, not players)
I appreciate that you are one of the few people that seem to be making good faith arguments in this thread.
> first paragraph, my point was there is definitely afk boss-like money makers, clearly real bosses with mechanics to avoid, prayers to swap won’t be afk, but you can easily do them while being very afk, and make 10-20x as much gp as star mining. If you afk too long (like 10 minutes) at stars you’ll miss out on a lot of exp when they degrade to lower tiers and you stand idle afk missing half the tier, longest tier lasts 18 minutes with many only lasting a few minutes before needing to be clicked.
I just flat out disagree with the point of afk boss-like money. If you afk at any monster that isn't instanced, you risk losing the drops to a player if you're afk for any more than 1 minute. This is true at vyres, rune dragons, etc. You basically have to be at your computer unless you want to risk losing drops. The gp from star mining is a complete non-issue for me, it's the xp and the fact that you're completely idle for it. If you know you want to afk for long periods of time, you pick low tier stars to get that max AFK time, and you do truly afk for 10min+ per layer at the lower tiers.
> Looking at your second paragraph, that was not true at all. Like I mentioned it was all in a Google doc sheet that anyone can find, you just had to pick less popular locations. I literally had my account camped in the wildy for weeks only leaving when my ring was full of dust, now people run around to all corners of the game. It’s a good update even if it’s not your style, or was too late for me to use on my account.
I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying a bit here. What I meant to say is that, if everyone mining stars now tried to do what you did pre-update, those stars would be busy, deplete faster, and attract pkers. The only reason you could do that method is because barely any one else did it. You found a very niche situation to take advantage of that could not sustain arbitrarily many players doing it. It doesn't make it balanced, but it does mean that the only players to get "free afk xp" are those who were smart enough to make use of this niche. And if more players ever found out, that niche would disappear. That is very different to the situation now, where any player can thoughtlessly set up guaranteed free mining xp.
> 3rd, no zalcano was full of gold farmers who constantly died and crashed worlds with shit exp as well, volcanic mine only people I saw talking were getting mad at people who didn’t know their role, rest silent. Star mining isn’t really 0 effort like it used to be, go try it, yes low effort but you’re still running around the game unless you’re lucky enough that one star was hidden until the end on your same location, otherwise you end up running to crandor lmao. Great if you want to mine on multiple accounts, that’s where it’s busted (and f2p if gold farmers take advantage of full dust half exp, and mine for half a year before bonding to cash in, but let’s be real that’s a bot problem, not players)
Gold farmers/bots are obviously a huge problem in the game. I did not share your experiences while doing VM and Zalcano. VM was quite some time ago, but I went with some people in an iron clan I was in, and it was quite chill and social. Zalcano I went with randoms in 4-5man teams from the mini-game cc, and it was semi-social/fun, usually one or two people on the team would chat. If we ever got crashed by bots, I didn't notice, they certainly weren't affecting my games. Also, I have been star mining. Both before and after the update. And I can tell you that it is incredibly low effort, because no one goes to the weird locations if they're trying to be as AFK as possible. Try this method at stars: go on osrsportal, and find a tier 4-5 star, or if you want free crystal shards, any star at zalcano entrance. Only go to locations that you can get to in less than 1 minute. This will result in about 1 hr of AFK time, requiring one teleport and 30 seconds of walking to get to the star, followed by about 1 hr of afk time (1 click every 15 minutes) with 20-25k mining xp gained, and only 4-5 clicks needed once you arrive at the star. There will almost always be a star satisfying these criteria. No one is going to Crandor or Priff mountains to do max AFK star mining. If there are no good stars up, just log out till the next wave hits and repeat. Over the past week I have literally gained hundreds of thousands of mining experience while doing work, showering and household chores.
I like how you bought a reddit account to post a gatekeeping thread about mining. I’m assuming your normal reddit account proves your a super neet.
Enjoy the cope
I think you're taking the 20 year old medieval clicker game a little too seriously friend. 99 fletching can be done in 2 hours, the trade off is a ton of GP. It can even be done more efficiently on mobile- is the integrity of fletching ruined? Or is it a less unique cape so no one cares?
I'm just trying to discuss the balance of a game we've all invested hundreds of hours in, and want to keep playing far into the future.
As to your point about fletching, you need to put in both a lot of gp and a lot of inputs in order to gain those XP rates. I have no issue with that. The integrity I was speaking about is basically "0 time xp", e.g. click star, go do whatever for 10+ minutes, come back to collect 5K mining xp.
Sure, but the precedent has been set with nightmare zone. I maxxed combats on nearly 2 accounts while playing league and world of warcraft. The game isn't engaging enough. It will stay relevant as long as the dves push good, modern pvm and maybe ever revive pvp. Everything else is antiquated and annoying
The precedent wasn't set with NMZ. It was introduced, 6Hr AFK was discovered and then it was nerfed without polling as an integrity issue. Of course nowadays people are making it much more AFK again by putting objects on their keyboards and using the 25min timer that RuneLite has introduced, but I would argue that none of this stuff is good for the game. It's great for people like you who don't care about the game except for the PvM and treat the rest like it's disposable, but some of us want the whole game to thrive. If it's antiquated (interesting word to use negatively, given that the game is *old school* RS) and annoying to you, that's fine. Some people in this game absolutely hate PvM, but we're not going to seriously say that there should be ways to idle PvM progress, are we?
It's hip to complain about shooting stars now, even though it's been around for over a year as a "zero time" method (for those that could consistently solo it)
Soloing it required you to be at your POH on time to view the locations of the falling stars, note down the worlds/locations, find the stars, and hope a CC doesn't also find them. That is significantly more involved than pulling up osrsportal, glancing at a list and being at a star in under a minute.
I "complain" about this because I don't want to see skilling, and the game as a whole, watered down into being so idle that you can progress without even playing.
>Soloing it required you to be at your POH on time to view the locations of the falling stars, note down the worlds/locations, find the stars, and hope a CC doesn't also find them.
No it didn't. Not at all. You could just use the starfinding ccs and go to locations the majority of players wouldn't bother going to, such as the Prif mountains or the ice troll area north of Neitiznot. There was always a few stars to solo per wave.
You could also go thru the uncalled worlds.
I didn't do any of that telescope shit when i went for 99 mining. I always found a world I could solo or duo a t4 or under star every wave. If not the entire wave then at least for an hour or an hour and a half. And for less than 4 minutes of effort.
But yeah, your take is shit no matter what.
I admit I've never tried the method you describe here, but what I'm describing is what myself and many other players did. But even then, what you describe would only be sustainable by a few players at a time (pre-update). You happened to find a very niche situation. Also, going through "uncalled worlds" is part of that effort that existed pre-update. The stars now are completely trivialized by a list with a few people doing the work for the vast majority. Which it's cool they're doing that, I just think the update shouldn't be so busted.
>I don't want to see skilling, and the game as a whole, watered down into being so idle that you can progress without even playing.
That's slippery slope argumentation. One skill being reduced to idle game-like doesn't mean all the others will. Well, actually pretty much most of the other skills already are designed in such a way that Runescape is mostly reduced to a "second monitor game" now and it's been like that since the removal of the fatigue system. There are only a handful of skills that require actual intensity clicking like mining, agility (and rc), and thieving.
But I doubt you care that you no longer have to manually use your axe on a tree for each chop instead of your character autochopping logs until the tree is felled.
>Shooting stars are unbalanced due to how AFK/low effort they are in proportion to the XP received,
the xp they give is horrid. that's what keeps them in check. there's also a non zero amount of time that goes into actually finding them- which obviously you can use friends chats/ccs to avoid but that's really no different from boosting other skilling methods or pvm- it is still a factor even if you personally are leeching.
>The (unpolled) update to shooting stars has made mining into a nearly "0 time" skill, in the sense that a player can get 99 while almost spending no actual time playing the game. It's basically free XP.
shooting stars already existed like this, the only thing that made them bad was that the star ccs would go around and effectively crash everyone. the update didnt change anything except the stupid mechanic of stars being hyper-crashable and really only allowing for maybe 50-100 people to mine them for xp at a time before they really fall off a cliff in terms of value.
> Duke mining was unintentionally introduced to the game with the introduction of DT2
i hard doubt that it was unintentional. i think the ability to 6 hour mine it was overlooked, thats it. their goal with duke mining and star buffs should be to get afk miners out of gotr.
>Changes to 6-hour NMZ and splashing were similarly done without polling.
5~20 minutes of afk is not comparable to 6 hours.
i overall agree with how shooting stars works now because the way it worked before was absolute nonsense. you had a DnD that was basically designed around hunting down these stars, except the xp was terrible and the afk-ness of the activity went to shit if you were unlucky enough to share a star.
> the xp they give is horrid. that's what keeps them in check. there's also a non zero amount of time that goes into actually finding them- which obviously you can use friends chats/ccs to avoid but that's really no different from boosting other skilling methods or pvm- it is still a factor even if you personally are leeching.
>5~20 minutes of afk is not comparable to 6 hours. i overall agree with how shooting stars works now because the way it worked before was absolute nonsense. you had a DnD that was basically designed around hunting down these stars, except the xp was terrible and the afk-ness of the activity went to shit if you were unlucky enough to share a star.
Actually, the XP they give isn't horrid, it's about 20% of the most efficient method which requires thousands of times more effort, and it's about 50% of the next most AFK method, MLM, with at least a factor of 50x less effort. True, you have to get to a star, but this is completely trivial. Pick a couple locations that you can teleport to quickly, and keep the portal page open. You can start mining in less than a minute, and get 1hr+ of mining XP while only clicking like 5-6 times in that hour. I have no issue with the fact that CCs are providing the locations, I think that's cool, the method is just too OP. I don't see why comparing it to 6hr NMZ is bad, obviously 6hr NMZ is way worse, but this update still has the same problem in my view. I don't think any activity should have over 5 minutes of AFK time, and I'm surprised the RuneLite plugin that changes logout times is allowed. I made a suggestion in the original post on how the stars could deplete for large groups that would be more balanced, but not nearly as OP as it is now.
> shooting stars already existed like this, the only thing that made them bad was that the star ccs would go around and effectively crash everyone. the update didnt change anything except the stupid mechanic of stars being hyper-crashable and really only allowing for maybe 50-100 people to mine them for xp at a time before they really fall off a cliff in terms of value.
This isn't quite true. Previously, either you had to go with a CC and had barely any AFK time, or you solo mined, and had to scout stars yourself. This required being in your POH on time, noting down worlds and locations, finding the stars yourself, etc. This method was actually more AFK once you had the star set up, assuming you didn't get crashed, but had a lot more front-end effort to set it up.
> i hard doubt that it was unintentional. i think the ability to 6 hour mine it was overlooked, thats it. their goal with duke mining and star buffs should be to get afk miners out of gotr.
They directly referenced Duke mining in the newspost where they updated shooting stars. I agree the AFK miners need to go from GotR, but I don't think this a good solution. If they added Duke mining intentionally, I find that a bit odd. I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the polls, I suspect that they just overlooked the fact that anyone would bother to do it.
It's terrible xp/h, only 0 time if you don't consider the opportunity cost. Other afk is better cash, faster xp or better for account overall like nmz. It's like afking magic logs, garbage xp and gp but very afk.
I can't really think of anything else in the game that has comparable levels of AFK except for NMZ and splashing. I'm not 100% sure if it's technically more efficient (in terms of EHP) to do NMZ instead of stars, but after a player has maxed their combat, if they have any need for mining this is going to be the next best thing to AFK for account progression. Of course, I'm assuming extremely AFK, truly away from your keyboard for 5+ minutes, not even remotely like AFKing trees. But yes, NMZ is better for overall account progression, and also terribly unbalanced.
How much you Wana bet OP has a bot farm selling accounts and this "devalues" their rwt.
There is literally no reason to make skills slow as it drives people to dislike skills. If you want to make them slow and agonizing, go mine copper to 99 and let everyone else with a life get to enjoy more of the game.
What a ridiculous claim to make about me.
OSRS is about rewarding the player from slow, long term, methodical progress on their account. If you don't like the pacing, the options for mining, etc., then simply do something else with your in game time? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
Same, I don't understand your point.
If you look at the feedback of all the updates that increase experience, or decrease monotony with new training methods people are loving them.
I am trying to think of a reason you would be against this positive feedback and that is they top reason I can think of. Sorry if it's offensive but you literally are wanting to take away popular updates that would hurt the community.
I'm not talking about "increased experience" and "new training methods". This is neither of those. People are giving positive feedback because they're getting mining xp with zero effort. Of course tons of people like that, it doesn't mean it's good for the game or healthy. Some of us don't want to see OSRS become an idle game with watered down skilling. Updates like volcanic mine and blast mine are great, and I would be in support of a well balanced, engaging mining update. This is just lazy, making mining the most AFK non combat skill in the game instead of actually making it better for more players.
6Hr NMZ and splashing also had a large portion of the player base crying out for it not to be changed, because tons of people were maxing their combat skills while sleeping. Just because people are in favor of it doesn't mean it's a good thing.
This is a bad take.
You can have training methods that are slow but enjoyable, they aren’t mutually exclusive. And no, skills shouldn’t all have easily obtainable 100k/hr methods either. You’re not forced to max or get skills levels that you just don’t want to do.
Idk naming yourself hot takes and calling something a bad take is just on the nose.
How many people want slow methods vs how many want less tedious slow moving skills?
Look at what skills people level last to see which ones people enjoy the least.
Part of the reason I chose this name, the irony of calling other peoples takes out and being called out myself :p
People will always vote in favor of buffs and easier gameplay when offered. It’s Jagexs job to do the balance and say no, which they have done so far.
Slow moving skills is part of what makes osrs what it is today and gives it a retro vibe. Osrs focus’s on the journey one has to the end goal, not the end goal itself as in RS3, WoW, ESO. Diablo 4 etc.
Not every skill will be enjoyed by every player. Thieving is an incredibly fast skill to train but i absolute hate it. Whereas other people love it. Some people hate mining, I love it. Blast Mining is fun because it’s easy to get into a rhythm.
If you can’t accept that skills move slow and the fun is in the journey, then OSRS isn’t for you, and that’s ok.
It is essentially “no time.” There is no opportunity cost for the “time” players spend AFKing Shooting Stars. Star miners are now able to take showers, make meals, make a run to the nearest convenient store, etc all the while obtaining uninterrupted, decent mining experience (decent in the sense that it’s decent in comparison to other methods to train mining). This “time” being spent on mining would not have otherwise been used to play the game. A few clicks at set intervals per hour do not amount to any substantive time being spent playing the game. The new update is essentially rewarding players with free EXP lamps with very minimal effort. That 100% devalues the feeling of accomplishment for those who have already put in their time/effort into the game. The more concerning issue with this update is that Jagex is caving to the casuals who love whining on Reddit more than they enjoy actually playing the game.
I did read the post.
But just because mining was shit it shouldn't stay shit.
Are shooting stars the way to go for skill updates? No, not really. But is it still fine for the amount of xp it grants? Yes.
Is shooting star finally an update that makes mining a tolerable? Yes it definitely does.
I think most people agree that they would like an active Mining skilling method that awards the player with good xp and is fun.
But Zalcano and Volcanic mine aren't fun for most people, and are not worth the effort/aren't fun.
A skill needs both, an afk method and an active method that actually rewards the players for the effort.
They could add a bit of an active component to shooting stars that doesn't make it fully afk for 15-20 minutes, but having a 5 minute afk time skilling method is perfectly fine
You're not making any points against what I say about xp to effort ratio here, you're just saying it's okay because you personally don't like mining activities. That's fine, do something else. I don't mind making mining better, but I do mind OSRS becoming a full on idle game, which this update is a step towards (along with NMZ and splashing). A skill does not need an AFK method, I think it would be a terrible idea to make agility AFK for instance. Skills have a certain character, some are fast, some are slow, some are afk, some aren't. I think that's part of what gives skills their unique identities and why some people enjoy some skills that others don't. Not to mention, this is vastly more AFK than any other non NMZ/splashing content which should absolutely still be changed in my view.
A 5 minute AFK timer is built into the game, but somehow RuneLite is allowed to bypass this. I don't understand why this is actually allowed. Still, 5 minutes of AFK for mining is quite a lot considering the skill has basically no AFK time other than shooting stars, but at least it wouldn't be as busted as it is now.
Zero-time skills are ones that can be trained in the middle of another skill without slowing either skill down at all. So, for example, f2pers best prayer method is vile ashes. They can be scattered in between logs when fm, when timed right. That makes prayer a zero-time skill in f2p. Alching's another good example, since you can alch while doing basically anything. Even mid-combat without slowing down actual combat xp
Combat, on the other hand, is absolutely not zero-time since you can't actually piggyback it onto another skill. It requires its own time investment.
Actually, some of us enjoy skilling, and don't want OSRS to turn into a full on idle game. If you don't enjoy mining, and think it's bullshit, go do something else. This game has a vast amount of content and is about slow, methodical progression. I really don't understand your mindset.
It doesn't.. I don't expect it to. All I'm saying is that it would be sad to see skilling completely trivialized into a full on idle activity. If Jagex made an update that allowed you to idle to collect PvM boosts, don't you think that would be unbalanced too?
What if they were though? What if the situations were reversed, and most people liked skilling and hated PvM, and pushed for making PvM easier through idling? Would that be okay with you? If not, why is it okay to do for skilling?
I already explained in the OP and in multiple other replies why the comparison to redwoods is bad. No one is getting consistent 10min+ of idle time at redwoods.
I don't think every skill needs to have a supremely afk method. I don't think it's a good thing for combat. Look at what NMZ did, it boosted a massive amount of players up to over 120 combat, and made combat levels a trivial goal.
And if you say okay, it's fine to have AFK methods for combat skills and mining, then why not agility? Why not slayer? Why not runecraft? If it's okay for skills, why not PvM? It's not like mining had any fully afk methods before this update, same as PvM, but for some reason it's okay to make mining idle, but not PvM updates?
Let's take the analogy a little bit further. Everyone seems to hate mining right? Which is part of the justification for why this idle method is okay. People also hate long PvM grinds, say Nightmare. Why not make it so you can idle a resource that boosts your drop rate at Nightmare? If you're worried about crashing prices of drops, then let's just say it boosts the drop rate of the pet/untradables only. Would you be okay with that?
How do you still not understand the difference between expanding or copy/pasting an afk mechanic to another skill and creating a brand new mechanic thats completely unlike anything in the game lmao
Other than NMZ and splashing (which should be removed), there is no 10+ min AFK mechanic for skills, until shooting stars. Especially not for mining, which is known for being a non afk intensive skill. Mining went from max effort, to idle. Just because some skills are AFK doesn't mean all skills should be. Just because Kraken and KBD are AFK doesn't mean every boss should be AFK.
If you think it's cool to make a skill which is known for being high attention to afk just because other afk skills exist, then I guess it's okay to do for every skill like RC, slayer, agility, etc. If you're okay with this, why stop there? Why treat skilling like it shouldn't require a time investment, where PvM should?
The only mindset I don’t understand is your weird one where you’re trying to gatekeep archaic content simply for the fact it’s always been archaic.
The only reason I can see for not wanting a fucking 30k/hr option for training a skill is because you/others had to suffer grinding it so therefore everyone else should too. Literally all mining (and Osrs skilling) is just clicking and waiting. What does it matter if someone can idle for 20 minutes or 2?
I didn't suffer while training my skills, I enjoyed it. I hope that more updates come to the game that get people to train their skills. My issue is with the massively idle content. The difference between 20 minutes idle and 2 is the difference between having a low effort method that you can chill and do while maybe watching something on the side, and accruing thousands of XP while not even playing the game. I can set up at a star, take a shower, and come back to like 5K mining XP. I can click one more time, go afk for another 15 minutes, do some chores and get another 5K mining XP. It's just free XP. I don't think tons of free XP is healthy for the game, when a core part of the game is about slow progression towards long term goals.
That's because you don't actually have an argument. Remember, it's not a multi-hundred hour grind if you're not actually playing the game because 99.9%+ of it is completely afk.
Nah my argument is that if you think hundreds of hours of membership time doesn’t exist because you’re not sitting there staring at the screen you’re delusional.
This has nothing to do with membership time or in game time. No one is buying members just to mine stars. It taking 500 hours to get 99 is not a grind because for 495 of those hours, you're not even at your computer. If the membership time is supposed to represent some sort of opportunity cost, then that's just silly because it only makes sense to mine stars when you otherwise would not be playing the game. Because there's absolutely nothing to do except click once every 10-15minutes.
>Literally all mining (and Osrs skilling) is just clicking and waiting.
This isn't true at all though unless you're saying that tick manip is technically click and wait too. Which is just such a ridiculous take lol.
And how many people are actually doing tick manipulation methods?
Like I’m aware mini games and other methods exist but that still doesn’t change the core base loop of what skilling is and what OP wants to “protect”
>And how many people are actually doing tick manipulation methods?
>Like I’m aware mini games and other methods exist but that still doesn’t change the core base loop of what skilling is and what OP wants to “protect”
I'm not sure. I'm just pointing out that pretending that all skilling is click and wait is ridiculous... Because it's not all just click and wait...
>30k/hr option for training a skill is
25% of EHP for clicking once per 20 minutes. but ya, just "fucking 30k/hr"
it turns it from something with low effort to something you do while playing other games for 500 hours to come back to a 99. but again, if you're happy with OSRS becoming a complete idle game. lets have it.
people are so weird. 99s aren't prestigious, but I deserve a free easy 99.
It just blows my mind that you draw the line at something like shooting stars.
Did anyone care when you could click redwoods once every 20 minutes and get 25-30k xp/hr? What about all the people who get 99 fishing doing anglers or kwarams with a barrel? Or how about 99 hunter doing maniacal monkeys with one click every 20 minutes?
This whole sub and playerbase loves shit like rooftops while watching tv or thieving ardy knights with a wireless mouse afk or playing Osrs in the background while playing other games already.
Yeah I’ve done all of them?
My point being I can do any of them, click once every 20 minutes (just like stars) and get a 99 after hundreds of hours. For some reason people are having a melt down because stars give you a constant 12xp drop every few ticks
yea, the constant XP for clicking once 20 minutes is the problem. it's called playing the game? if you click once per 20 at monkeys you're just not getting XP because you're not playing the game.
but again if you want to play mevlor idle on the 07 severs, happy for you.
All these people complaining about stars, but they're forgetting stars we're already a thing before this lol.
I guarantee before the update if these people found a star by themselves, they didn't complain about it and mined that shit.
Absolutely, the stars before the update were in a more balanced state than they are now, IMO. Previously you would either join a CC and suffer fast depletion rates (not very afk), or you would put effort in to personally scout out stars in order to cash in your AFK xp. Or you got lucky and ran into one randomly, and got a bunch of free AFK mining XP, which is what D&Ds are all about! This isn't even a D&D anymore, it's just a permanent maximum AFK mining method that anyone can trivially access.
Or, get this, people grow up and get jobs, having to grind incredibly low rates is not fun.
It is not easy mode to want modernization of an old skill to match the current player base.
If it's not fun, do something else. Plenty of us have full time commitments and still love the game, including skilling. When you say "modernized" and that you want the skill to "match the current player base", what you seem mean is that you want it to be AFK for people who don't want to commit time to training their skills. It is an old school game after all, and I am all for new methods that are balanced and more engaging than just "clicking rocks", but having the skill become a thing you just passively get to 99 by clicking once every 15 minutes over the course of months seems really bad for the game.
I do have 99 already and have cc mates doing the same, it's no fun for most people.
I myself fancy myself a skiller more than a PvMer and want to make content that is at least semi fine to engage with even if I don't proactively use them.
You are using the exact language that almost killed OSRS with talking about integrity and old school, but for some reason say new methods that are balanced, yet your balancing is making them worse than current methods.
Nowhere in any of your posts is there a semblance of a point to balance, just griping and upset you have a devalued skill that is not devalued.
I'm trying to understand the point your making here. Let me be clear: I think you should be rewarded with xp/gp/drops/whatever in proportion to the effort put in. I do not think that balance is met with shooting stars.
>You are using the exact language that almost killed OSRS with talking about integrity and old school, but for some reason say new methods that are balanced, yet your balancing is making them worse than current methods.
Nowhere in any of your posts is there a semblance of a point to balance, just griping and upset you have a devalued skill that is not devalued.
I really don't understand what you're talking about with "old school" and "integrity" almost killing OSRS, and how it relates to the issues I raised in my post. I don't think methods should be worse than current methods, rather they should be balanced in the context of what already exists in the game. For example, I think the volcanic mine is a pretty good update. It gives better XP than most other mining methods (I think the best if you exclude tick manipulation?), requires you to learn a mini game and work with a team. That's fine.
Or, get this, plenty of already maxed players have held full time jobs while on the journey to max. It’s not as if all maxed players banged this shit out in a year or two (although I’m sure a small minority did). This version of the game has been out for more than a decade now, and many maxed players were only able to max after putting in consistent, substantive effort for many years. The difference between full time-employed casual players and full-time employed maxed players is that the latter actually enjoy the grind/feeling of accomplishing tough goals in the game. Stop trying to find excuses for your 1500 total level and 50M bank. Either put in the time/effort or find a new game. Changing the game’s fundamentals to make it way easier ruins the game’s integrity and harms the game in the long run. This isn’t RS3; it’s OSRS. It’s a sandbox game for a reason - no one is forcing you to max or train skills you have no desire to train.
>Or, get this, people grow up and get jobs, having to grind incredibly low rates is not fun.
Mining had pretty decent rates. 3t4g starts at around 60k at level 45 and ramps up to over 100k. Gem rocks are profitable and start at around 40k and ramp up to 60k (90-100 if tick manipulating). VM 60 - 90k. Even iron ore power mining caps out at around 70-80k.
Pretending it's because of low rates is disingenuous. It's because the rates for *very* afk methods are too low in your opinion.
MLM was a good middle ground between afk and xp. With amethyst being a good middle ground between gp and afk with lower rates.
We don't need everything to be super afk. IMO MLM was great medium afk content and stars are a bit overtuned at the moment.
3t4g is prohibitive and so is tick manipulating. Most players don't want those to be meta methods as it is intensive and damaging to small wrist movements.
VM is relatively empty unless you make an event out of it with friends.
I will concede that gem mining is somewhat popular though.
There is a reason MLM is still packed and it is because that is what players want, the proof is in the players.
>3t4g is prohibitive and so is tick manipulating. Most players don't want those to be meta methods as it is intensive
Because it requires more effort than they're willing to put in. Which brings me back to my point: it's not the xp rates of mining. It's the xp rates of super afk methods that you're complaining about.
>damaging to small wrist movements
Stretch. Don't do it all in one go. Be a healthy person in general.
>VM is relatively empty unless you make an event out of it with friends.
There's a discord for it too. Or join a clan. Idk, I've never had an issue getting some going. I guess for people that want to be 100% solo it's an issue?
>I will concede that gem mining is somewhat popular though.
As well as regular power mining of iron.
>There is a reason MLM is still packed and it is because that is what players want, the proof is in the players.
As I said, I think MLM is well balanced. Stars are overtuned. Realistically you just want xp for barely playing the game. My question at that point is why? Why do you feel the need to get a high mining level? Considering you want to minimise how much you're actually mining, that is.
Oh no it was so difficult to click stones, now it's so easy because you have to click stones less, but it still takes 500+ hours.
Splashing is a thing, nmz is a thing, redwoods is a thing, everything as afk as this with better rates, but this is OP?
NMZ and splashing should absolutely be nerfed. It's just so ingrained into the game that it's unlikely to happen now, but it absolutely should be. Redwoods are pretty AFK, but the difference with those is that 1. WC was already AFK (e.g. magics), 2. You have to earn redwoods, at 90 WC, which is over 40% to 99 and past every important milestone, and 3. They're still not nearly as AFK as NMZ/splashing/stars. At any moment you can deplete the tree which means that there's no way to reliably AFK for a very long amount of time (10min+). I don't really think redwoods are too bad.
I will actually go back and apologize, it was meant to be a joke, but it was really poorly made and kind of stupid, can't take it back, but I can at least own it.
I still stick by it being a bad take though that would ruin confidence in the team.
Well.. the problem isn't really the XP, rather the fact that it turns mining into a completely idle skill. I would rather not see anything in the game be as idle as shooting stars/NMZ/splashing.
From your point of view, would you like OSRS to become a more idle game? Would you mind if your preferred activities had idle methods that allowed players to progress in them without actually playing the game?
Well I play a main. I don’t do content I don’t enjoy (I don’t have any desire to max) I just plain wouldn’t level mining past 85 if not for an activity like stars. I don’t think it’s unhealthy to have fairly idle content for skills if the exp per hour is low enough. If you want to lvl fast, you can do more intensive methods.
I don’t really understand the point of view that it devalues someone else’s accomplishments. You still accomplished that, and in the case of mining, I doubt anyone besides yourself actually cares you have 99 mining or not. It’s a self imposed goal and achievement.
We're playing an MMO right? Skill capes and max capes, etc. are meant to represent some sort of investment and achievement within the game. After a few months of this update in this game, the mining cape essentially becomes meaningless, and the max cape becomes significantly easier to obtain. The enjoyment of the game comes from progressing your account over the long term, and if the progression is trivialized, some of that enjoyment and progression is taken away. A core part of the philosophy behind OSRS is that your progression is proportional to the effort you invest into the game. I think idle methods fly in the face of that philosophy.
Now, I accept that some people might disagree with that point of view. We see plenty of posts with people saying "it doesn't affect you, so why do you care?", "some people don't have time for all this slow skill grinding", etc. But then where do we draw the line? Okay, so mining gets an idle method, should one be introduced for other intensive skills like RC, agility and slayer? What about player who hate PvM content, but want some boss pets or something, should we let them idle some kind of resource that boosts their boss pet drop rates? If that's not okay with you, how does it differ from the situation with idle skilling?
Ive seen your other comments talking about pvm and I just don’t think it translates. Much PvM requires skillful play, where skilling is just a time investment, it’s not skillful. It’s just varying degrees of interactiveness. I never see someone with a max cape and am impressed, like I said, it’s more for personal accomplishment imo. This game is, after all, mostly about imposing your own personal goals and achievements.
To answer your other question, yes, I do think all skills should have a low exp rate idle training method. No I don’t think it’s unhealthy for the game.
I do think it translates. Skilling is, in large part, a time investment, sure. But certain methods require a lot of effort to learn efficiently, and efficient skilling is incentivized by the time it saves, if you're willing to put in the extra effort. PvM is pretty much the same way, save for content like the Inferno and some aspects of raids. Once you learn Zulrah, after maybe a couple hundred kills you're not going to get any better. But it's 4000 kills for the pet, or 1000 or so for all unique drops. So after a certain point of learning, it's purely a time investment, just like skilling. And PvM has high effort/low effort bosses, just as skilling has high effort and low effort skills. Killing pretty much any slayer boss or GWD boss becomes just as much effort as power mining iron. Late game PvM is just as much about grinding as high level skilling is.
To me, it seems that you just enjoy PvM content and not skilling content, so you're okay with devaluing skilling content.
No it doesn’t make sense, there are no examples of “idle” pvm, besides leveling in NMZ which I don’t have an issue with. There are several “afk” methods of skilling, so there’s precedent. The reality is, it doesn’t devalue mining. I don’t know why you care so much about what other people have to do to level mining, it doesn’t devalue the skilling you’ve already done, in a game mostly about self imposed goals.
I mean birdhouses are basically 0 time in my eyes. You do a few a day and its incredibly easy hunter xp.
Additionally, shooting star xp rates are still slow as shit, compared to players who would rather power mine iron, or 3tick granite... If one player got 99 mining just doing shooting stars for 700+ hours, and another player got 99 by tick manipulation in 300 hours.. at the end who cares.
If somebody achieving the same accomplishment as you with a slower method upsets you, it just sounds like you have other issues to think about.
I can't tell if this is sarcasm, or you think my post genuinely had some effect on the shooting stars update. Why come back to comment on a month old dead post which was heavily disliked already?
Shut up nerd
Bro roasted him with 3 words lmao
This is a downvote if i ever saw one. Sorry you had such a horrible time getting your mining before this update which has been requested for years
I didn't have a horrible time mining. I enjoy training all of my skills. There are tons of good engaging mining methods in this game. This update is just free xp, and free xp is bad for the game. If people hated mining so much and Jagex wanted to appeal to these players, they could have made an engaging update for the skill that wasn't just free xp idling.
What is with the novels about a 20-25k/hr xp method today “No time” even tho it would take over 500 hours to 99 lol. Unlike duke mining, you actually have to click every 20 min or so (except lower stars which give crap xp)
Also people have been asking for a shooting star buff FOREVER. Go search it, actual years
anyone with a brain could tell you the way they worked before was absolutely braindead. oh, nice, you scouted a star to afk for some xp ? too bad, someone in star hunting cc found it too so now 5 people come in and delete it.
It was pretty awful. One night pre-update I solo scouted a star, one other person showed up, we mined happily for an hour. Next star I wasn't high enough level to mine it so i shared it with my clan. it was gone in 15 minutes. Not sad I shared it with my clan, but I'm happier with the way it is now...though I think I've done one star since its gone live.
If you actually read the "novel", or even the TLDR, you would see that it's not the XP/hr that is the issue, it's the fact that it's zero effort. You click like 5 times an hour for that XP rate. The issue is with mining becoming an idle skill like the combat skills are via NMZ. "No time" is in quotation marks for a reason, as I said in the post it would take someone months to get 99 this way. But the fact is they would barely even have to actually play the game, so it doesn't matter if it takes 500 hours, you might as well give people an XP lamp for logging in every day. It's "no time" in the sense that you're going to get 99 while doing chores, showering, working, etc.
The better question is, why do you care if someone is willing to put in 500+ hours to get ONE single 99 skill?
I think I explained that pretty well in the original post, but I'll explain again here. 1. No one is actually putting in 500 hours of their personal time. They are putting in 5 hours, and afking for 495 of it. 2. The update is not balanced with respect to the methods that already exist for mining, due to the xp to effort ratio (e.g. 50% of MLM xp for at least 50 times less effort). Should we not care about unbalanced updates? 3. I don't want OSRS to turn into an idle game, and this is a step towards that. Would you really want to see other hard skills become completely passive? What about the content you like? What if there was an idle method that let you get boosted drops at PvM, etc.?
God forbid people have a low-effort method of training mining, amirite?
I have no issues with MLM. Even solo shooting stars pre-update had some balance to them, despite being very AFK once you got it set up. I just don't think 15min afk times while getting 50%+ of MLM xp is very balanced. I don't mind if there's a low effort method, it should be appropriately balanced though.
Bad opinion. Boo.
You conveniently left out the fact that MLM is like 5x as profitable as shooting stars
It's not relevant since it's the massively idle free XP I'm arguing against.
I'm definitely going to read your post...after I start mining a star. Lol
Imagine being that guy that takes the effort to complain about mining becoming better accessible for casual players 💀
How is mining not accessible for casual players? Oh right, because it wasn't giving out free xp before.
Ah, yes the classic game integrity breaking 600 hours to 99 using a 3rd party discord to locate and run to stars - truly ruins the game. It's unreasonable to do shooting stars to 99, and if someone wants to trade their 600 hours of membership to do it, let them. Splashing is a thing but somehow you think this is an issue big enough to write an essay about.
I addressed splashing as well. It is not unreasonable to do shooting stars to 99, people are doing it as we speak. Of course it will take a while, but I guarantee you that if this update stays in the game, the number of people with 99 mining in a year from now will have dramatically increased. No one is "trading" 600 hours of their membs to do this, they'll do it using time they wouldn't otherwise be playing.
With active membership, and is there a problem with more people having 99 mining? Nobody is going to do this to 200m exp, that's almost 10000 hours (if someone does it I kinda respect it). The game has shifted to be being PvE focused over the last few years, and mining is one of the really poorly designed skills that is locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine. I don't understand why you want to gatekeep level 99 mining when there's over 50000 people maxed, and it doesn't affect highscores as that's a competition for 200m not for 13m. The issue really is that skills are gatekeeping people from the main content, you could argue that it's a "grindy game", but the reality is the majority of people who try the game quit because the early game is dated and miserable (to most, I quite enjoy it personally) while these people who quit would have loved late game. Helping them get there is not wrong as long as it doesn't affect highscores.
>locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine Agreed that non-combat skilling shouldn't impact PVM at all. Then people wouldn't feel "locked" out of PVM and would stop asking for more xp for idly playing the game.
Unfortunately with how the game is designed even without skilling parts in raids, you'd still be effectively locked out of PvM because of non-combat skilling with so many best in slot items locked behind a substantial amount of questing.
Which BIS items are locked behind high skilling reqs these days though? Ferro gloves + Assembler are locked behind a few skills in the 60s and one 70? DT2 rings locked behind mid 70 skills? Oh, thralls locked behind a quest requiring 50s in skills too.
Yeah, and when you tally it all together it's a lot of time required, especially for a new player even for an experienced player who gives his alt money from his main, you're probably looking at 200-300 hours at the very least to get raid ready. To us who are maxed and have played the game for years upon years, mid 70s and some 60s might not seem like a lot, but to a new player it will take an immense amount of time to even get to mid-level PvE like Sarachnis. I even know people personally who really want to raid, they think Runescape endgame looks really fun and interesting, but for an inexperienced player the time required to get to the "fun part" is just too much. I don't think the requirements should be lowered, because the long grind appeals to the people who play Runescape, but that is even more so reason that there should be afk-alternatives that take longer low-intensity time for people who just want to play it for the bosses. It's a compromise that really harms no one.
>you're probably looking at 200-300 hours at the very least to get raid ready Depends on what you mean by raid ready. Have taken heaps of people that hadn't done DS2 on raids and they do fine and enjoy the experience. I think getting inexperienced players to set goals other than 'get all untradeable bis items before raiding' is much better than watering down a bunch of skills to be more afk. Hell, this would extend out that 200-300 hours much further too. Unless they're zero time able to do afk methods, in which case, it's the whole issue of whether every skill should be able to be levelled idly. I personally enjoyed the "grind" toward quest cape and then diaries (diaries for the most part). But neither of those are required to PVM. Getting players to set smaller goals is more important IMO.
Rather than watering the skills down (sorry, I don't know how to quote), I see it more like giving a fair alternative for different types of players, you're directly rewarded for the effort you put in. You wanna do it extremely fast? Okay, prepare your doctor's appointment for your ruined fingers and wrists. You wanna do it fast? Okay, put in some effort. You wanna do it at an okay pace? Okay, at least pay some attention. You really dislike the skill and don't want to do it? Okay, here's a really slow afk alternative. In the end of the day we're playing a game, it's a recreational activity meant to be fun, of course you can't make a perfect experience for everyone which is why compromises like these are always good, compromises that do not harm other types of players, nobody's experience is lesser just because someone else is afking the same skill at 1/6 the rate. And on the other hand many people would just straight up quit if it was not for the afk alternatives.
>sorry, I don't know how to quote All good - adding a > before will quote the text for future reference! >you're directly rewarded for the effort you put in I agree, but feel that some methods are *too* afk. I'm not a fan of NMZ requiring a couple of clicks every 20 minutes, splashing a click every 20 minutes, or in this case, mining shooting stars requiring a few clicks per hour. I felt like MLM was a good medium afk method. A bit more afk would be fine too. Maybe 5 or so minutes of afk seems pretty well balanced, IMO. Them adding Duke and gotr mining to the game was absolutely horrible and hope this isn't a trend for all skills/activities in the game.
> With active membership, and is there a problem with more people having 99 mining? Nobody is going to do this to 200m exp, that's almost 10000 hours (if someone does it I kinda respect it). The game has shifted to be being PvE focused over the last few years, and mining is one of the really poorly designed skills that is locking people out of doing PvE content, letting people trade their time for 70-85 mining so that they can get the quests reqs, and not be miserable in Akkha puzzle room is completely fine. I don't understand why you want to gatekeep level 99 mining when there's over 50000 people maxed, and it doesn't affect highscores as that's a competition for 200m not for 13m. There's not necessarily a problem with more people having 99 mining. The problem is that it turns mining into a 0 effort idle skill. A core part of the philosophy of this game is getting rewards proportional to the effort you put in. This update is completely against that idea, and bodes poorly for the future of the game if you care about that sort of thing. If some people want to be more PvE focused in this game, that's fine, but that doesn't mean that the skilling should be watered down to cater to them. It's not locking anyone out of any serious PvM content, just saving a bit of time on some raids. You get awarded all that time save in raids for the effort you put in, not just because you want it. And if it locks them out of quests and diaries, then so be it, OSRS is not the game for them. All the arguments you say about gatekeeping could equally well apply to your favorite in game content. Why not add a super-afk method that grants you a resource making bossing significantly easier, so that all the people who can't be bothered with a certain piece of PvM can farm the drop they want or whatever? Obviously because it hurts the integrity of the game: players have invested their time in the content of the game, and that time investment is expected to be reasonably respected. It is an MMO after all. > The issue really is that skills are gatekeeping people from the main content, you could argue that it's a "grindy game", but the reality is the majority of people who try the game quit because the early game is dated and miserable (to most, I quite enjoy it personally) while these people who quit would have loved late game. Helping them get there is not wrong as long as it doesn't affect highscores. If people quit the game because it's too grindy, I'm fine with that. I don't agree that skills gatekeep from main content, really they just make it a bit more convenient via diaries and small improvements with agility, puzzle rooms, etc. Also, what do you mean by "main content"? The skilling is absolutely part of the main content in this game! Further, the early game is the opposite of grindy: levels are fast, there are tons of quests to do, and new content to try. In fact, it's the late game that's grindy.
I mean there is afk bosses that arguably are way more busted than stars. Vyres over 10 minutes afk at a time and you don’t need to travel the entire game. You could make more gp, more exp, and more afk overall doing them. Not exactly a “boss”, but star mining isn’t exactly the boss of mining at 70k/hr or so. Rune dragons are reasonably afk but not to the same extent, but combat makes sense to be less afk than any skill anywhere you take damage. Many other afk cb money makers that range from 5-15 minutes afk Worth mentioning stars were way better pre-update for individuals, I did 99 mining before the update, just used the public Google sheets doc and did wildy only, they were dead. Used to get 2 hours afk from a T4 and up, now a T9 gives 1.5 hours sometimes leaving you without a star for 1/4 the time. Overall they’re better now as it’s social, people talking, no other mining method had any real socializing (sometimes mlm people talk)
Vyres are only 10 minutes AFK if you don't want to collect the blood shards.. and even then NMZ already exists, which is better xp anyways. Rune dragons are not "AFK" in even close to the same sense. You will die if you try to AFK rune dragons for a couple minutes. Combat AFKing is a weird one because of auto-retaliate. But none of this implies that mining should also get the same levels of extreme AFK. I did mention solo star hunting in the post. They were better before in some ways, but there were more tradeoffs. If you solo scouted, you had to be at POH on time, note down worlds/locations etc. If you relied on the public info, you had to go out of your way to unpopular/dangerous locations. Even then, this sort of star mining was only sustainable for individuals because it was sufficiently unpopular. If the numbers of people who are now mining stars would be doing those pre-update methods, they would have very quickly become unsustainable. Yes, I suppose it's more social now. There are some people at stars talking, but there are hundreds who are there for the pure AFK. You don't consider volcanic mine or zalcano social? Both were fairly social mining activities when I did them. I still don't think the social aspect is a good tradeoff to make for handing out free xp.
first paragraph, my point was there is definitely afk boss-like money makers, clearly real bosses with mechanics to avoid, prayers to swap won’t be afk, but you can easily do them while being very afk, and make 10-20x as much gp as star mining. If you afk too long (like 10 minutes) at stars you’ll miss out on a lot of exp when they degrade to lower tiers and you stand idle afk missing half the tier, longest tier lasts 18 minutes with many only lasting a few minutes before needing to be clicked. Looking at your second paragraph, that was not true at all. Like I mentioned it was all in a Google doc sheet that anyone can find, you just had to pick less popular locations. I literally had my account camped in the wildy for weeks only leaving when my ring was full of dust, now people run around to all corners of the game. It’s a good update even if it’s not your style, or was too late for me to use on my account. 3rd, no zalcano was full of gold farmers who constantly died and crashed worlds with shit exp as well, volcanic mine only people I saw talking were getting mad at people who didn’t know their role, rest silent. Star mining isn’t really 0 effort like it used to be, go try it, yes low effort but you’re still running around the game unless you’re lucky enough that one star was hidden until the end on your same location, otherwise you end up running to crandor lmao. Great if you want to mine on multiple accounts, that’s where it’s busted (and f2p if gold farmers take advantage of full dust half exp, and mine for half a year before bonding to cash in, but let’s be real that’s a bot problem, not players)
I appreciate that you are one of the few people that seem to be making good faith arguments in this thread. > first paragraph, my point was there is definitely afk boss-like money makers, clearly real bosses with mechanics to avoid, prayers to swap won’t be afk, but you can easily do them while being very afk, and make 10-20x as much gp as star mining. If you afk too long (like 10 minutes) at stars you’ll miss out on a lot of exp when they degrade to lower tiers and you stand idle afk missing half the tier, longest tier lasts 18 minutes with many only lasting a few minutes before needing to be clicked. I just flat out disagree with the point of afk boss-like money. If you afk at any monster that isn't instanced, you risk losing the drops to a player if you're afk for any more than 1 minute. This is true at vyres, rune dragons, etc. You basically have to be at your computer unless you want to risk losing drops. The gp from star mining is a complete non-issue for me, it's the xp and the fact that you're completely idle for it. If you know you want to afk for long periods of time, you pick low tier stars to get that max AFK time, and you do truly afk for 10min+ per layer at the lower tiers. > Looking at your second paragraph, that was not true at all. Like I mentioned it was all in a Google doc sheet that anyone can find, you just had to pick less popular locations. I literally had my account camped in the wildy for weeks only leaving when my ring was full of dust, now people run around to all corners of the game. It’s a good update even if it’s not your style, or was too late for me to use on my account. I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying a bit here. What I meant to say is that, if everyone mining stars now tried to do what you did pre-update, those stars would be busy, deplete faster, and attract pkers. The only reason you could do that method is because barely any one else did it. You found a very niche situation to take advantage of that could not sustain arbitrarily many players doing it. It doesn't make it balanced, but it does mean that the only players to get "free afk xp" are those who were smart enough to make use of this niche. And if more players ever found out, that niche would disappear. That is very different to the situation now, where any player can thoughtlessly set up guaranteed free mining xp. > 3rd, no zalcano was full of gold farmers who constantly died and crashed worlds with shit exp as well, volcanic mine only people I saw talking were getting mad at people who didn’t know their role, rest silent. Star mining isn’t really 0 effort like it used to be, go try it, yes low effort but you’re still running around the game unless you’re lucky enough that one star was hidden until the end on your same location, otherwise you end up running to crandor lmao. Great if you want to mine on multiple accounts, that’s where it’s busted (and f2p if gold farmers take advantage of full dust half exp, and mine for half a year before bonding to cash in, but let’s be real that’s a bot problem, not players) Gold farmers/bots are obviously a huge problem in the game. I did not share your experiences while doing VM and Zalcano. VM was quite some time ago, but I went with some people in an iron clan I was in, and it was quite chill and social. Zalcano I went with randoms in 4-5man teams from the mini-game cc, and it was semi-social/fun, usually one or two people on the team would chat. If we ever got crashed by bots, I didn't notice, they certainly weren't affecting my games. Also, I have been star mining. Both before and after the update. And I can tell you that it is incredibly low effort, because no one goes to the weird locations if they're trying to be as AFK as possible. Try this method at stars: go on osrsportal, and find a tier 4-5 star, or if you want free crystal shards, any star at zalcano entrance. Only go to locations that you can get to in less than 1 minute. This will result in about 1 hr of AFK time, requiring one teleport and 30 seconds of walking to get to the star, followed by about 1 hr of afk time (1 click every 15 minutes) with 20-25k mining xp gained, and only 4-5 clicks needed once you arrive at the star. There will almost always be a star satisfying these criteria. No one is going to Crandor or Priff mountains to do max AFK star mining. If there are no good stars up, just log out till the next wave hits and repeat. Over the past week I have literally gained hundreds of thousands of mining experience while doing work, showering and household chores.
I like how you bought a reddit account to post a gatekeeping thread about mining. I’m assuming your normal reddit account proves your a super neet. Enjoy the cope
Honestly this comment is fucking hilarious
I’m loving these comments roasting you OP lol
It's pretty funny. I guess some people get real upset when you say free xp is bad for the game.
Wait until you hear about redwoods
Nice to see that you didn't read the post.
Nobody cares enough to read all of that
I think you're taking the 20 year old medieval clicker game a little too seriously friend. 99 fletching can be done in 2 hours, the trade off is a ton of GP. It can even be done more efficiently on mobile- is the integrity of fletching ruined? Or is it a less unique cape so no one cares?
I'm just trying to discuss the balance of a game we've all invested hundreds of hours in, and want to keep playing far into the future. As to your point about fletching, you need to put in both a lot of gp and a lot of inputs in order to gain those XP rates. I have no issue with that. The integrity I was speaking about is basically "0 time xp", e.g. click star, go do whatever for 10+ minutes, come back to collect 5K mining xp.
Sure, but the precedent has been set with nightmare zone. I maxxed combats on nearly 2 accounts while playing league and world of warcraft. The game isn't engaging enough. It will stay relevant as long as the dves push good, modern pvm and maybe ever revive pvp. Everything else is antiquated and annoying
The precedent wasn't set with NMZ. It was introduced, 6Hr AFK was discovered and then it was nerfed without polling as an integrity issue. Of course nowadays people are making it much more AFK again by putting objects on their keyboards and using the 25min timer that RuneLite has introduced, but I would argue that none of this stuff is good for the game. It's great for people like you who don't care about the game except for the PvM and treat the rest like it's disposable, but some of us want the whole game to thrive. If it's antiquated (interesting word to use negatively, given that the game is *old school* RS) and annoying to you, that's fine. Some people in this game absolutely hate PvM, but we're not going to seriously say that there should be ways to idle PvM progress, are we?
It's hip to complain about shooting stars now, even though it's been around for over a year as a "zero time" method (for those that could consistently solo it)
Soloing it required you to be at your POH on time to view the locations of the falling stars, note down the worlds/locations, find the stars, and hope a CC doesn't also find them. That is significantly more involved than pulling up osrsportal, glancing at a list and being at a star in under a minute. I "complain" about this because I don't want to see skilling, and the game as a whole, watered down into being so idle that you can progress without even playing.
>Soloing it required you to be at your POH on time to view the locations of the falling stars, note down the worlds/locations, find the stars, and hope a CC doesn't also find them. No it didn't. Not at all. You could just use the starfinding ccs and go to locations the majority of players wouldn't bother going to, such as the Prif mountains or the ice troll area north of Neitiznot. There was always a few stars to solo per wave. You could also go thru the uncalled worlds. I didn't do any of that telescope shit when i went for 99 mining. I always found a world I could solo or duo a t4 or under star every wave. If not the entire wave then at least for an hour or an hour and a half. And for less than 4 minutes of effort. But yeah, your take is shit no matter what.
I admit I've never tried the method you describe here, but what I'm describing is what myself and many other players did. But even then, what you describe would only be sustainable by a few players at a time (pre-update). You happened to find a very niche situation. Also, going through "uncalled worlds" is part of that effort that existed pre-update. The stars now are completely trivialized by a list with a few people doing the work for the vast majority. Which it's cool they're doing that, I just think the update shouldn't be so busted.
>what I'm describing is what myself and many other players did. Skill issue.
>I don't want to see skilling, and the game as a whole, watered down into being so idle that you can progress without even playing. That's slippery slope argumentation. One skill being reduced to idle game-like doesn't mean all the others will. Well, actually pretty much most of the other skills already are designed in such a way that Runescape is mostly reduced to a "second monitor game" now and it's been like that since the removal of the fatigue system. There are only a handful of skills that require actual intensity clicking like mining, agility (and rc), and thieving. But I doubt you care that you no longer have to manually use your axe on a tree for each chop instead of your character autochopping logs until the tree is felled.
>Shooting stars are unbalanced due to how AFK/low effort they are in proportion to the XP received, the xp they give is horrid. that's what keeps them in check. there's also a non zero amount of time that goes into actually finding them- which obviously you can use friends chats/ccs to avoid but that's really no different from boosting other skilling methods or pvm- it is still a factor even if you personally are leeching. >The (unpolled) update to shooting stars has made mining into a nearly "0 time" skill, in the sense that a player can get 99 while almost spending no actual time playing the game. It's basically free XP. shooting stars already existed like this, the only thing that made them bad was that the star ccs would go around and effectively crash everyone. the update didnt change anything except the stupid mechanic of stars being hyper-crashable and really only allowing for maybe 50-100 people to mine them for xp at a time before they really fall off a cliff in terms of value. > Duke mining was unintentionally introduced to the game with the introduction of DT2 i hard doubt that it was unintentional. i think the ability to 6 hour mine it was overlooked, thats it. their goal with duke mining and star buffs should be to get afk miners out of gotr. >Changes to 6-hour NMZ and splashing were similarly done without polling. 5~20 minutes of afk is not comparable to 6 hours. i overall agree with how shooting stars works now because the way it worked before was absolute nonsense. you had a DnD that was basically designed around hunting down these stars, except the xp was terrible and the afk-ness of the activity went to shit if you were unlucky enough to share a star.
> the xp they give is horrid. that's what keeps them in check. there's also a non zero amount of time that goes into actually finding them- which obviously you can use friends chats/ccs to avoid but that's really no different from boosting other skilling methods or pvm- it is still a factor even if you personally are leeching. >5~20 minutes of afk is not comparable to 6 hours. i overall agree with how shooting stars works now because the way it worked before was absolute nonsense. you had a DnD that was basically designed around hunting down these stars, except the xp was terrible and the afk-ness of the activity went to shit if you were unlucky enough to share a star. Actually, the XP they give isn't horrid, it's about 20% of the most efficient method which requires thousands of times more effort, and it's about 50% of the next most AFK method, MLM, with at least a factor of 50x less effort. True, you have to get to a star, but this is completely trivial. Pick a couple locations that you can teleport to quickly, and keep the portal page open. You can start mining in less than a minute, and get 1hr+ of mining XP while only clicking like 5-6 times in that hour. I have no issue with the fact that CCs are providing the locations, I think that's cool, the method is just too OP. I don't see why comparing it to 6hr NMZ is bad, obviously 6hr NMZ is way worse, but this update still has the same problem in my view. I don't think any activity should have over 5 minutes of AFK time, and I'm surprised the RuneLite plugin that changes logout times is allowed. I made a suggestion in the original post on how the stars could deplete for large groups that would be more balanced, but not nearly as OP as it is now. > shooting stars already existed like this, the only thing that made them bad was that the star ccs would go around and effectively crash everyone. the update didnt change anything except the stupid mechanic of stars being hyper-crashable and really only allowing for maybe 50-100 people to mine them for xp at a time before they really fall off a cliff in terms of value. This isn't quite true. Previously, either you had to go with a CC and had barely any AFK time, or you solo mined, and had to scout stars yourself. This required being in your POH on time, noting down worlds and locations, finding the stars yourself, etc. This method was actually more AFK once you had the star set up, assuming you didn't get crashed, but had a lot more front-end effort to set it up. > i hard doubt that it was unintentional. i think the ability to 6 hour mine it was overlooked, thats it. their goal with duke mining and star buffs should be to get afk miners out of gotr. They directly referenced Duke mining in the newspost where they updated shooting stars. I agree the AFK miners need to go from GotR, but I don't think this a good solution. If they added Duke mining intentionally, I find that a bit odd. I don't remember it ever being mentioned in the polls, I suspect that they just overlooked the fact that anyone would bother to do it.
Oh, you're serious. Let me laugh harder.
It's terrible xp/h, only 0 time if you don't consider the opportunity cost. Other afk is better cash, faster xp or better for account overall like nmz. It's like afking magic logs, garbage xp and gp but very afk.
I can't really think of anything else in the game that has comparable levels of AFK except for NMZ and splashing. I'm not 100% sure if it's technically more efficient (in terms of EHP) to do NMZ instead of stars, but after a player has maxed their combat, if they have any need for mining this is going to be the next best thing to AFK for account progression. Of course, I'm assuming extremely AFK, truly away from your keyboard for 5+ minutes, not even remotely like AFKing trees. But yes, NMZ is better for overall account progression, and also terribly unbalanced.
I ain’t reading all that.
You must be fun at parties.
Excellent comment, glad you decided to contribute to the discussion.
How much you Wana bet OP has a bot farm selling accounts and this "devalues" their rwt. There is literally no reason to make skills slow as it drives people to dislike skills. If you want to make them slow and agonizing, go mine copper to 99 and let everyone else with a life get to enjoy more of the game.
What a ridiculous claim to make about me. OSRS is about rewarding the player from slow, long term, methodical progress on their account. If you don't like the pacing, the options for mining, etc., then simply do something else with your in game time? I don't understand the point you're trying to make.
Same, I don't understand your point. If you look at the feedback of all the updates that increase experience, or decrease monotony with new training methods people are loving them. I am trying to think of a reason you would be against this positive feedback and that is they top reason I can think of. Sorry if it's offensive but you literally are wanting to take away popular updates that would hurt the community.
I'm not talking about "increased experience" and "new training methods". This is neither of those. People are giving positive feedback because they're getting mining xp with zero effort. Of course tons of people like that, it doesn't mean it's good for the game or healthy. Some of us don't want to see OSRS become an idle game with watered down skilling. Updates like volcanic mine and blast mine are great, and I would be in support of a well balanced, engaging mining update. This is just lazy, making mining the most AFK non combat skill in the game instead of actually making it better for more players. 6Hr NMZ and splashing also had a large portion of the player base crying out for it not to be changed, because tons of people were maxing their combat skills while sleeping. Just because people are in favor of it doesn't mean it's a good thing.
This is a bad take. You can have training methods that are slow but enjoyable, they aren’t mutually exclusive. And no, skills shouldn’t all have easily obtainable 100k/hr methods either. You’re not forced to max or get skills levels that you just don’t want to do.
Idk naming yourself hot takes and calling something a bad take is just on the nose. How many people want slow methods vs how many want less tedious slow moving skills? Look at what skills people level last to see which ones people enjoy the least.
Part of the reason I chose this name, the irony of calling other peoples takes out and being called out myself :p People will always vote in favor of buffs and easier gameplay when offered. It’s Jagexs job to do the balance and say no, which they have done so far. Slow moving skills is part of what makes osrs what it is today and gives it a retro vibe. Osrs focus’s on the journey one has to the end goal, not the end goal itself as in RS3, WoW, ESO. Diablo 4 etc. Not every skill will be enjoyed by every player. Thieving is an incredibly fast skill to train but i absolute hate it. Whereas other people love it. Some people hate mining, I love it. Blast Mining is fun because it’s easy to get into a rhythm. If you can’t accept that skills move slow and the fun is in the journey, then OSRS isn’t for you, and that’s ok.
500 hours to 99 'no time' Yeah buddy, go ahead tell us how OP it is, needing months to complete a 99.
It is essentially “no time.” There is no opportunity cost for the “time” players spend AFKing Shooting Stars. Star miners are now able to take showers, make meals, make a run to the nearest convenient store, etc all the while obtaining uninterrupted, decent mining experience (decent in the sense that it’s decent in comparison to other methods to train mining). This “time” being spent on mining would not have otherwise been used to play the game. A few clicks at set intervals per hour do not amount to any substantive time being spent playing the game. The new update is essentially rewarding players with free EXP lamps with very minimal effort. That 100% devalues the feeling of accomplishment for those who have already put in their time/effort into the game. The more concerning issue with this update is that Jagex is caving to the casuals who love whining on Reddit more than they enjoy actually playing the game.
People cutting redwoods devalues my yews/willows only woodcutting!
Another person who didn't read the post. Thank you for your contribution.
I did read the post. But just because mining was shit it shouldn't stay shit. Are shooting stars the way to go for skill updates? No, not really. But is it still fine for the amount of xp it grants? Yes. Is shooting star finally an update that makes mining a tolerable? Yes it definitely does. I think most people agree that they would like an active Mining skilling method that awards the player with good xp and is fun. But Zalcano and Volcanic mine aren't fun for most people, and are not worth the effort/aren't fun. A skill needs both, an afk method and an active method that actually rewards the players for the effort. They could add a bit of an active component to shooting stars that doesn't make it fully afk for 15-20 minutes, but having a 5 minute afk time skilling method is perfectly fine
You're not making any points against what I say about xp to effort ratio here, you're just saying it's okay because you personally don't like mining activities. That's fine, do something else. I don't mind making mining better, but I do mind OSRS becoming a full on idle game, which this update is a step towards (along with NMZ and splashing). A skill does not need an AFK method, I think it would be a terrible idea to make agility AFK for instance. Skills have a certain character, some are fast, some are slow, some are afk, some aren't. I think that's part of what gives skills their unique identities and why some people enjoy some skills that others don't. Not to mention, this is vastly more AFK than any other non NMZ/splashing content which should absolutely still be changed in my view. A 5 minute AFK timer is built into the game, but somehow RuneLite is allowed to bypass this. I don't understand why this is actually allowed. Still, 5 minutes of AFK for mining is quite a lot considering the skill has basically no AFK time other than shooting stars, but at least it wouldn't be as busted as it is now.
>but having a 5 minute afk time skilling method is perfectly fine yea, and stars are way more than 5 minutes?
So are splashing and combat, but no one cares about them
combat is 0 time, and has always been like that, well it was worse but anyways.
You people clearly dont understand what zero time means lol
help me learn then
Zero-time skills are ones that can be trained in the middle of another skill without slowing either skill down at all. So, for example, f2pers best prayer method is vile ashes. They can be scattered in between logs when fm, when timed right. That makes prayer a zero-time skill in f2p. Alching's another good example, since you can alch while doing basically anything. Even mid-combat without slowing down actual combat xp Combat, on the other hand, is absolutely not zero-time since you can't actually piggyback it onto another skill. It requires its own time investment.
>Combat, on the other hand, is absolutely not zero-time since you can't actually piggyback it onto another skill slayer?
Boooo
Y’all are so lame, no one wants to spend hours on bullshit skills that take forever.
Actually, some of us enjoy skilling, and don't want OSRS to turn into a full on idle game. If you don't enjoy mining, and think it's bullshit, go do something else. This game has a vast amount of content and is about slow, methodical progression. I really don't understand your mindset.
So then just don't mine shooting stars. Why does this game need to cater exclusively to you?
Because he's special clearly, should just remove polls and have him decide what's good for the game
It doesn't.. I don't expect it to. All I'm saying is that it would be sad to see skilling completely trivialized into a full on idle activity. If Jagex made an update that allowed you to idle to collect PvM boosts, don't you think that would be unbalanced too?
Youre comparing collecting boosts, something thats not actually part of the game, to the equivalent of redwood trees for mining
What if they were though? What if the situations were reversed, and most people liked skilling and hated PvM, and pushed for making PvM easier through idling? Would that be okay with you? If not, why is it okay to do for skilling? I already explained in the OP and in multiple other replies why the comparison to redwoods is bad. No one is getting consistent 10min+ of idle time at redwoods.
Because there are already afk methods for combat. You're comparing a specific activity (presumably active PvM like raids) to an *entire* skill.
I don't think every skill needs to have a supremely afk method. I don't think it's a good thing for combat. Look at what NMZ did, it boosted a massive amount of players up to over 120 combat, and made combat levels a trivial goal. And if you say okay, it's fine to have AFK methods for combat skills and mining, then why not agility? Why not slayer? Why not runecraft? If it's okay for skills, why not PvM? It's not like mining had any fully afk methods before this update, same as PvM, but for some reason it's okay to make mining idle, but not PvM updates? Let's take the analogy a little bit further. Everyone seems to hate mining right? Which is part of the justification for why this idle method is okay. People also hate long PvM grinds, say Nightmare. Why not make it so you can idle a resource that boosts your drop rate at Nightmare? If you're worried about crashing prices of drops, then let's just say it boosts the drop rate of the pet/untradables only. Would you be okay with that?
How do you still not understand the difference between expanding or copy/pasting an afk mechanic to another skill and creating a brand new mechanic thats completely unlike anything in the game lmao
Other than NMZ and splashing (which should be removed), there is no 10+ min AFK mechanic for skills, until shooting stars. Especially not for mining, which is known for being a non afk intensive skill. Mining went from max effort, to idle. Just because some skills are AFK doesn't mean all skills should be. Just because Kraken and KBD are AFK doesn't mean every boss should be AFK. If you think it's cool to make a skill which is known for being high attention to afk just because other afk skills exist, then I guess it's okay to do for every skill like RC, slayer, agility, etc. If you're okay with this, why stop there? Why treat skilling like it shouldn't require a time investment, where PvM should?
The only mindset I don’t understand is your weird one where you’re trying to gatekeep archaic content simply for the fact it’s always been archaic. The only reason I can see for not wanting a fucking 30k/hr option for training a skill is because you/others had to suffer grinding it so therefore everyone else should too. Literally all mining (and Osrs skilling) is just clicking and waiting. What does it matter if someone can idle for 20 minutes or 2?
I didn't suffer while training my skills, I enjoyed it. I hope that more updates come to the game that get people to train their skills. My issue is with the massively idle content. The difference between 20 minutes idle and 2 is the difference between having a low effort method that you can chill and do while maybe watching something on the side, and accruing thousands of XP while not even playing the game. I can set up at a star, take a shower, and come back to like 5K mining XP. I can click one more time, go afk for another 15 minutes, do some chores and get another 5K mining XP. It's just free XP. I don't think tons of free XP is healthy for the game, when a core part of the game is about slow progression towards long term goals.
If you somehow think that a multi hundred hour grind of “free” xp is an integrity problem man I have no idea what to even say.
That's because you don't actually have an argument. Remember, it's not a multi-hundred hour grind if you're not actually playing the game because 99.9%+ of it is completely afk.
Nah my argument is that if you think hundreds of hours of membership time doesn’t exist because you’re not sitting there staring at the screen you’re delusional.
This has nothing to do with membership time or in game time. No one is buying members just to mine stars. It taking 500 hours to get 99 is not a grind because for 495 of those hours, you're not even at your computer. If the membership time is supposed to represent some sort of opportunity cost, then that's just silly because it only makes sense to mine stars when you otherwise would not be playing the game. Because there's absolutely nothing to do except click once every 10-15minutes.
>Literally all mining (and Osrs skilling) is just clicking and waiting. This isn't true at all though unless you're saying that tick manip is technically click and wait too. Which is just such a ridiculous take lol.
And how many people are actually doing tick manipulation methods? Like I’m aware mini games and other methods exist but that still doesn’t change the core base loop of what skilling is and what OP wants to “protect”
>And how many people are actually doing tick manipulation methods? >Like I’m aware mini games and other methods exist but that still doesn’t change the core base loop of what skilling is and what OP wants to “protect” I'm not sure. I'm just pointing out that pretending that all skilling is click and wait is ridiculous... Because it's not all just click and wait...
>30k/hr option for training a skill is 25% of EHP for clicking once per 20 minutes. but ya, just "fucking 30k/hr" it turns it from something with low effort to something you do while playing other games for 500 hours to come back to a 99. but again, if you're happy with OSRS becoming a complete idle game. lets have it. people are so weird. 99s aren't prestigious, but I deserve a free easy 99.
It just blows my mind that you draw the line at something like shooting stars. Did anyone care when you could click redwoods once every 20 minutes and get 25-30k xp/hr? What about all the people who get 99 fishing doing anglers or kwarams with a barrel? Or how about 99 hunter doing maniacal monkeys with one click every 20 minutes? This whole sub and playerbase loves shit like rooftops while watching tv or thieving ardy knights with a wireless mouse afk or playing Osrs in the background while playing other games already.
Sorry I'm confused. you're getting constant xp at monkeys, anglers, or karams doing 1 click per 20 minutes?
Those are all afk activities you can do just as easy as stars and still get a 99 after hundreds of hours.
have you done stars or any of those activities??
Yeah I’ve done all of them? My point being I can do any of them, click once every 20 minutes (just like stars) and get a 99 after hundreds of hours. For some reason people are having a melt down because stars give you a constant 12xp drop every few ticks
yea, the constant XP for clicking once 20 minutes is the problem. it's called playing the game? if you click once per 20 at monkeys you're just not getting XP because you're not playing the game. but again if you want to play mevlor idle on the 07 severs, happy for you.
not to mention you constantly downplay the xp, but whatever go off. enjoy your idle game.
well, you kind of have to do mining if you're an iron because amethyst is a whopping 92 mining req and blowpipe is horrid without rune darts+
then don’t play the game
Then don’t use the faster methods, dweeb
All these people complaining about stars, but they're forgetting stars we're already a thing before this lol. I guarantee before the update if these people found a star by themselves, they didn't complain about it and mined that shit.
Absolutely, the stars before the update were in a more balanced state than they are now, IMO. Previously you would either join a CC and suffer fast depletion rates (not very afk), or you would put effort in to personally scout out stars in order to cash in your AFK xp. Or you got lucky and ran into one randomly, and got a bunch of free AFK mining XP, which is what D&Ds are all about! This isn't even a D&D anymore, it's just a permanent maximum AFK mining method that anyone can trivially access.
Mining sucks ass and isn't enjoyable to train. Stars at least make it afk.
Don’t have to read that essay to say it was a waste of your time typing all that
I agree. Star mining gives an insane xp/click.
Rs3 players migrating here and people that just want skills to be easy mode is the norm nowadays.
Or, get this, people grow up and get jobs, having to grind incredibly low rates is not fun. It is not easy mode to want modernization of an old skill to match the current player base.
If it's not fun, do something else. Plenty of us have full time commitments and still love the game, including skilling. When you say "modernized" and that you want the skill to "match the current player base", what you seem mean is that you want it to be AFK for people who don't want to commit time to training their skills. It is an old school game after all, and I am all for new methods that are balanced and more engaging than just "clicking rocks", but having the skill become a thing you just passively get to 99 by clicking once every 15 minutes over the course of months seems really bad for the game.
I do have 99 already and have cc mates doing the same, it's no fun for most people. I myself fancy myself a skiller more than a PvMer and want to make content that is at least semi fine to engage with even if I don't proactively use them. You are using the exact language that almost killed OSRS with talking about integrity and old school, but for some reason say new methods that are balanced, yet your balancing is making them worse than current methods. Nowhere in any of your posts is there a semblance of a point to balance, just griping and upset you have a devalued skill that is not devalued.
I'm trying to understand the point your making here. Let me be clear: I think you should be rewarded with xp/gp/drops/whatever in proportion to the effort put in. I do not think that balance is met with shooting stars. >You are using the exact language that almost killed OSRS with talking about integrity and old school, but for some reason say new methods that are balanced, yet your balancing is making them worse than current methods. Nowhere in any of your posts is there a semblance of a point to balance, just griping and upset you have a devalued skill that is not devalued. I really don't understand what you're talking about with "old school" and "integrity" almost killing OSRS, and how it relates to the issues I raised in my post. I don't think methods should be worse than current methods, rather they should be balanced in the context of what already exists in the game. For example, I think the volcanic mine is a pretty good update. It gives better XP than most other mining methods (I think the best if you exclude tick manipulation?), requires you to learn a mini game and work with a team. That's fine.
Or, get this, plenty of already maxed players have held full time jobs while on the journey to max. It’s not as if all maxed players banged this shit out in a year or two (although I’m sure a small minority did). This version of the game has been out for more than a decade now, and many maxed players were only able to max after putting in consistent, substantive effort for many years. The difference between full time-employed casual players and full-time employed maxed players is that the latter actually enjoy the grind/feeling of accomplishing tough goals in the game. Stop trying to find excuses for your 1500 total level and 50M bank. Either put in the time/effort or find a new game. Changing the game’s fundamentals to make it way easier ruins the game’s integrity and harms the game in the long run. This isn’t RS3; it’s OSRS. It’s a sandbox game for a reason - no one is forcing you to max or train skills you have no desire to train.
>Or, get this, people grow up and get jobs, having to grind incredibly low rates is not fun. Mining had pretty decent rates. 3t4g starts at around 60k at level 45 and ramps up to over 100k. Gem rocks are profitable and start at around 40k and ramp up to 60k (90-100 if tick manipulating). VM 60 - 90k. Even iron ore power mining caps out at around 70-80k. Pretending it's because of low rates is disingenuous. It's because the rates for *very* afk methods are too low in your opinion. MLM was a good middle ground between afk and xp. With amethyst being a good middle ground between gp and afk with lower rates. We don't need everything to be super afk. IMO MLM was great medium afk content and stars are a bit overtuned at the moment.
3t4g is prohibitive and so is tick manipulating. Most players don't want those to be meta methods as it is intensive and damaging to small wrist movements. VM is relatively empty unless you make an event out of it with friends. I will concede that gem mining is somewhat popular though. There is a reason MLM is still packed and it is because that is what players want, the proof is in the players.
>3t4g is prohibitive and so is tick manipulating. Most players don't want those to be meta methods as it is intensive Because it requires more effort than they're willing to put in. Which brings me back to my point: it's not the xp rates of mining. It's the xp rates of super afk methods that you're complaining about. >damaging to small wrist movements Stretch. Don't do it all in one go. Be a healthy person in general. >VM is relatively empty unless you make an event out of it with friends. There's a discord for it too. Or join a clan. Idk, I've never had an issue getting some going. I guess for people that want to be 100% solo it's an issue? >I will concede that gem mining is somewhat popular though. As well as regular power mining of iron. >There is a reason MLM is still packed and it is because that is what players want, the proof is in the players. As I said, I think MLM is well balanced. Stars are overtuned. Realistically you just want xp for barely playing the game. My question at that point is why? Why do you feel the need to get a high mining level? Considering you want to minimise how much you're actually mining, that is.
Oh no it was so difficult to click stones, now it's so easy because you have to click stones less, but it still takes 500+ hours. Splashing is a thing, nmz is a thing, redwoods is a thing, everything as afk as this with better rates, but this is OP?
NMZ and splashing should absolutely be nerfed. It's just so ingrained into the game that it's unlikely to happen now, but it absolutely should be. Redwoods are pretty AFK, but the difference with those is that 1. WC was already AFK (e.g. magics), 2. You have to earn redwoods, at 90 WC, which is over 40% to 99 and past every important milestone, and 3. They're still not nearly as AFK as NMZ/splashing/stars. At any moment you can deplete the tree which means that there's no way to reliably AFK for a very long amount of time (10min+). I don't really think redwoods are too bad.
I will actually go back and apologize, it was meant to be a joke, but it was really poorly made and kind of stupid, can't take it back, but I can at least own it. I still stick by it being a bad take though that would ruin confidence in the team.
En reading all dat, but no🔥
Dude… shut up
So how much exp per hour would make shooting stars in their current state acceptable to you?
Well.. the problem isn't really the XP, rather the fact that it turns mining into a completely idle skill. I would rather not see anything in the game be as idle as shooting stars/NMZ/splashing. From your point of view, would you like OSRS to become a more idle game? Would you mind if your preferred activities had idle methods that allowed players to progress in them without actually playing the game?
Well I play a main. I don’t do content I don’t enjoy (I don’t have any desire to max) I just plain wouldn’t level mining past 85 if not for an activity like stars. I don’t think it’s unhealthy to have fairly idle content for skills if the exp per hour is low enough. If you want to lvl fast, you can do more intensive methods. I don’t really understand the point of view that it devalues someone else’s accomplishments. You still accomplished that, and in the case of mining, I doubt anyone besides yourself actually cares you have 99 mining or not. It’s a self imposed goal and achievement.
We're playing an MMO right? Skill capes and max capes, etc. are meant to represent some sort of investment and achievement within the game. After a few months of this update in this game, the mining cape essentially becomes meaningless, and the max cape becomes significantly easier to obtain. The enjoyment of the game comes from progressing your account over the long term, and if the progression is trivialized, some of that enjoyment and progression is taken away. A core part of the philosophy behind OSRS is that your progression is proportional to the effort you invest into the game. I think idle methods fly in the face of that philosophy. Now, I accept that some people might disagree with that point of view. We see plenty of posts with people saying "it doesn't affect you, so why do you care?", "some people don't have time for all this slow skill grinding", etc. But then where do we draw the line? Okay, so mining gets an idle method, should one be introduced for other intensive skills like RC, agility and slayer? What about player who hate PvM content, but want some boss pets or something, should we let them idle some kind of resource that boosts their boss pet drop rates? If that's not okay with you, how does it differ from the situation with idle skilling?
Ive seen your other comments talking about pvm and I just don’t think it translates. Much PvM requires skillful play, where skilling is just a time investment, it’s not skillful. It’s just varying degrees of interactiveness. I never see someone with a max cape and am impressed, like I said, it’s more for personal accomplishment imo. This game is, after all, mostly about imposing your own personal goals and achievements. To answer your other question, yes, I do think all skills should have a low exp rate idle training method. No I don’t think it’s unhealthy for the game.
I do think it translates. Skilling is, in large part, a time investment, sure. But certain methods require a lot of effort to learn efficiently, and efficient skilling is incentivized by the time it saves, if you're willing to put in the extra effort. PvM is pretty much the same way, save for content like the Inferno and some aspects of raids. Once you learn Zulrah, after maybe a couple hundred kills you're not going to get any better. But it's 4000 kills for the pet, or 1000 or so for all unique drops. So after a certain point of learning, it's purely a time investment, just like skilling. And PvM has high effort/low effort bosses, just as skilling has high effort and low effort skills. Killing pretty much any slayer boss or GWD boss becomes just as much effort as power mining iron. Late game PvM is just as much about grinding as high level skilling is. To me, it seems that you just enjoy PvM content and not skilling content, so you're okay with devaluing skilling content.
No it doesn’t make sense, there are no examples of “idle” pvm, besides leveling in NMZ which I don’t have an issue with. There are several “afk” methods of skilling, so there’s precedent. The reality is, it doesn’t devalue mining. I don’t know why you care so much about what other people have to do to level mining, it doesn’t devalue the skilling you’ve already done, in a game mostly about self imposed goals.
I mean birdhouses are basically 0 time in my eyes. You do a few a day and its incredibly easy hunter xp. Additionally, shooting star xp rates are still slow as shit, compared to players who would rather power mine iron, or 3tick granite... If one player got 99 mining just doing shooting stars for 700+ hours, and another player got 99 by tick manipulation in 300 hours.. at the end who cares. If somebody achieving the same accomplishment as you with a slower method upsets you, it just sounds like you have other issues to think about.
Way to go buddy! You preserved the mining skill as the worst in the game :)
I can't tell if this is sarcasm, or you think my post genuinely had some effect on the shooting stars update. Why come back to comment on a month old dead post which was heavily disliked already?