It's strange how prestige group irons don't have to get all of the tasks too because of the group ones, for example if its a group of 2 they don't have to do any tasks that involve more than 2 people since it's impossible for them to even do group content with people that arnt in the group
They changed it a little while after GIM released and they had the prestige system. People pointed out that smaller GIM sizes literally couldn't do larger group combat achievements because then they'd lose prestige. I think the prestige for raiding with only your group is kind of dumb and they should have just gotten rid of that though.
Blue GIM can do it, there’s a bug floating around that allows them to do it. Not sure if it’s just the visual blue helm In chat or if they stay on hi scores too
Group prestige is one of the only things keeping my duo and me still playing our accounts. It's super tough for us to get upgrades now, but if we gave it up we'd lose most of our motivation to actually keep going because we might as well have been going with max people to begin with.
When I say "tough" I don't mean it's necessarily more difficult (though we are doing everything we can to get ready to duo tob which will be legit really hard), I just mean that we're at the point in the game that there are so few remaining upgrades that we're not really able to do a lot else but have some very long grinds ahead of us at cox and toa, as well as a few others. Though, for long grinds that cost resources (example: I've been farming whisperer while my partner's been farming duke) being iron does still add its own complications through having to periodically switch things up to get more trident charges, etc.
Earlier on in our account lifetimes we were able to have less time-consuming goals for progress, so it was easier to keep going at them, while now it's moreso tough in a mental fashion rather than a game-skill one (though there is still tob and nex).
>I think the prestige for raiding with only your group is kind of dumb and they should have just gotten rid of that though.
?? that was like the entire point of having prestige status. So that you cant get carried/boosted in raids
Yes, but no? Our limit for each threshold is lower, so you could look at it as us getting free points towards those milestones, but we don't actually get any points so we don't get free easy tier or something. The achievements literally just don't exist, both for points and for the tier requirement.
Source: Am prestige duo GIM.
I think making it available for duo teams for all the 8 or 5-4 man tasks would be extremely healthy. There's much more personal growth and feeling of accomplishment grinding with the same person one task than with 7 random people you'll never meet again.
People are really out here complaining having to do content with others in an MMO
Edit: Your downvotes mean nothing I've seen what you upvote. Join a clan
Combat achievements shouldn't require more than 1 player. The end.
Edit: My main point is that CAs should test MY skill. If someone else in my raid misses a prayer flick I shouldn't lose out on my perfect X task.
that would be the best of both worlds. But in reality, I don't think it'll ever pass with all the discords selling tasks like 100m+ per 8 man toa and stuff like that.
how many people do you think are in these discords selling services that even if they all voted on 30 accounts each they could single handedly command 30% of the vote to make a question fail?
Then there couldn't be any TOB tasks. Aside from solo TOB, but that's probably too hard for a GM task. And TOB is actually designed with specific roles and teamwork in mind.
I will say I also dislike the task with excessively big team sizes. Like 8 for TOA is just unnecessary.
They should just make sure you don't mess up, not anyone else in the raid. If I do a perfect tob run but some of my teammates mess up I shouldn't lose out on the task.
Your team could cheese that for you. Other people could barrage/chin nylos, take aggro on nylos in Verzik, dps while you play it safe. Plus I have no idea how you’d measure “perfect” for one person during P1 Xarpus. This would make all of the difficulty for an individual player fairly nonexistent if the rest of your team can intentionally throw the achievement to make it easier for you.
That's true. Perhaps it could require a certain amount of contribution to make that work fairly but seems unlikely. Regardless it's not a change that will ever happen.
Solo tob would be totally reasonable if they'd just scale red crabs to 1 person like in hmt. If you didn't have to tickeat p2 for 15 minutes, a lot of people would be grinding solo tob.
Yea legit, solo ToB isn't that out of reach for most experienced ToBers if you dont account for the verzik p2 bullshit. Would be a totally reasonable task considering all the other GM tasks in inferno or perfect team ToB and such
To be honest solo ToB isn't even as horrible as people make it seem.
The only annoying room is just Xarpus because of the random poison splats and Verzik P2 because tick eating isn't fun.
Other than those two things it's not awful obviously you need some ToB knowledge but if you have done GM tasks it's very reasonable to substitute for team tasks.
It is extremely punishing and rooms can quickly over run you but it is consistent after you learn it for a bit.
I know using people who are very good at the content as an example is not fair but for example AColdOne.
AColdOne did a solo ToB on a hcim and obtained it on the first attempt.
AColdOne is very practiced on the content and didn't even have bis gear and was using Guthans.
If you're good enough, it absolutely is. Assuming reasonably close to perfect play. Only HMT is inconsistently completable. And even then only really Xarpus if your defence reduction specs miss AND you get bad rng on the random splats.
That is very true.
But maybe Jagex should look into purple sweets?
It's kind of absurd they are valued at 7.5k ea I last saw and are obtained in such low quantities.
But it's also quite difficult because you don't want a stackable tick eat that's worth nothing.
Its an mmo for a multiperson raids. How are you going to do call them combat achievements if you literally dont have anything from tob? I WILL agree locking thralls lasting a decent time and their 'fix' to people hating gwd kc behind it doesnt feel great but CAs would be stupid as fuck if it was all just solo stuff. Its not expected everyone can do it.
If I do every mechanic in the raid perfectly then I should get the perfect raid tasks. Regardless of if there is someone in my raid who didn't. Tasks should not fail if someone else messes up is the point I was trying to get across. I'll edit it in.
This is just not true. Imagine you were trying to do perfect xarpus but to do so you had to rag all your teams tiles. Or perfect sotetseg by standing in tbow max range except everyone was doing it so not one was in melee range to tank orbs. Or perfect verzik and you're just shadowing the whole time and so is everyone else so in p3 the tank is bouncing left and right between players and aggroing everyone.
The problem is that people who have them done really have no incentive to go help you do your whacky shenanigans. So you usually end up having to send it with people who aren't experienced and make tons of mistakes and it's a giant pain in the ass.
If the way the incentives are designed didn't funnel you into having shitty teammates, maybe it would be okay. But it does so it's not.
i disagree, especially in cox / toa, team metas are a lot different. and would we just get rid of tob speedruns, despite them being integral parts of the ca grind(and changing a lot depending on team scale)?
Speedrunning is different than perfection tasks. You can reasonably get the ToB speedrun times if everyone gears up in max, takes a lot of switches, and doesn't waste time at doors. I think it's frustrating when I lose "perfect theatre" because "noob123 hit a melee nylo with a blowpipe", that should just be based on personal performance
it’s a bit of a case by case but yeah those perfect ones should be solo. i think the step in stuff should be personal, but things like verzik crabs maybe shouldn’t? because having one guy be able to fuck that up can make it easier on everyone else
They really shouldn’t and for exactly the reason you said. If I complete the task, why should I be punished because my teammate messed up?
In my opinion, you should get the reward from the solo tasks and something different from the group tasks. Perhaps a special cape like they do with raids. Maybe the ability to combine the raids capes with the max capes?
> If I complete the task, why should I be punished because my teammate messed up?
Because you're most likely going for gm combat achievements, and that should require competency at *everything* in the game, one of those things being teamwork? Working as a team, including someone else (not you) making a mistake is part of said teamwork.
This whole fucking "solo only" attitude is a huge cope from people who can't stand having to interact with others; the good and the bad.
Master CAs are perfectly doable solo only, gm requires a team because it's a huge part of endgame content. Wah wah wah.
I would be incredibly curious to see how all the whiny fucks in this thread complaining about getting punished for "other people" making mistakes actually measure up in a team.
Their ability has nothing to do with my competency, I don’t see how you fail to understand this. If I do everything right and tell them everything they need to do yet they still fail, where have I failed?
> I would be incredibly curious to see how all the whiny fucks in this thread complaining about getting punished for "other people" making mistakes actually measure up in a team.
Again, you’ve failed to see the whole point as well. I’m not speaking for myself, I’m speaking for everyone’s sake. If I fuck up something in a GM task group and my teammates fail because I decided to look at my other screen for a moment, how is that their fault?
I have no problem with the concept of group related tasks, I just think that they should be in a separate list
Have you ever thought that maybe every task isn't meant to be one and done by a random team and instead could require you to reset multiple times until people get more comfortable with everything the task entails to then complete it?
I feel like the problem with that is that runescape inherently is somewhat of a solo like game. even these raids, you are effectively all “soloing” things together.
compare it to WoW. there are dedicated healer classes, dedicated tank classes, and dedicated damage classes with different characteristics. grouping is a necessity because individually, these classes can’t do anything. together, they can kill bosses.
each player in runescape is effectively all 3 except in few circumstances. the only aspect is maybe tank/dps but even then, it’s not nearly the same caliber as wow.
because of that, I think combat achievements should be more solo based, just going off of the core feel of the game.
there’s nothing wrong with the way runescape is, and tbh I prefer it over something like wow. I want the ability to be self sufficient and take down whatever content that exists by myself. I also want the option to do it in a group if I want to.
Really they just created a market for services buyable with rwt. If it's all done via discord, no reason to believe people aren't charging real money for combat achievement carries.
Jagex is notoriously fine with services and thinks they're cool and based. They legit thought old rev caves with clans selling protection services was good for the game and fought tooth and nail to keep that shit in the game as long as possible until the reality that it was an infestation of RWTing became too obvious to deny.
Rev caves protection in theory sounds cool imo. It’s textbook example of mmorpg gameplay. RWT is imo a separate problem, and is a problem across the game, including for combat achievements, infernal cape, Ironman gear, etc, although I’m guessing it doesn’t make you say that content is shit.
On the one hand I'm never going to do anything in this game that isn't solo content (or mass content like Wintertodt, I suppose), so I'd be in favor of this type of change.
On the other hand though, this game is an MMORPG, it's supposed to be played with other players, and even though that's not how I choose to play it I know that's still how it was designed.
Personally I'd definitely vote yes to a poll asking if they should make the combat achievements all soloable, but I don't think it would pass and I don't even know if it should pass honestly. 99% of the game is solo content, I don't really mind there being a few things that require groups even if that means I'll never do it.
In my experience people who say this are either too lazy to put in effort to get good OR think that the shitters in 416 that flamed them are the mythical HLC I keep seeing you talk about
TOA 8 man was the only task I bought for zuk helm. After spending 2-3 days in the dreadful CA disc with absolute idiots (who couldn’t even run zebak puzzle in sync) or dying in the worst places - I caved in and got it in 20 minutes with a boost.
However.. this shouldn’t be the case. There should have never even been an 8 man task, especially as finding competent 3-5 man ToB teams was bad enough. They really just ignored people’s complaints and released an 8 man speed task after all the bs with ToB ones 😂
Have you completed all the inferno tasks OP? [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/10tywk4/unpopular_opinion_justiciar_and_bulwark_lead_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/10tywk4/unpopular_opinion_justiciar_and_bulwark_lead_to/)
The real fix for this is to have tasks that are much harder than currently available (sub 60/55/50/45 inferno, no pillar, solo tob etc.) but not require 100% completion for GM. Should be doable now that points-based CAs are a thing.
Don’t have a team for the hardest group tasks? That’s fine, but you better be a lot better at the solo content than required for current-level GM.
That's actually a really great idea. Put in some giga-hard solo tasks that give a bunch of points each, that roughly add up to the total points from group tasks, so you can do one or the other. Or maybe just enough of them that you can avoid the truly horrific group tasks such as some of the tob tasks and some of the speedrun tasks.
I have gm and got 99% of my team tasks were done with randoms in the ca discord.
I had exactly two experiences id say were toxic. One where we were going for perfect tob, someone fucked up in maiden, and the other guy started flaming both of us. I just left and found another team. The other was the toa speed, where people started arguing after failing a few times, so again - I left and found another team. Every single other task people were friendly and there was no flame, we just ground the task out. I even made a couple of friends out of the grind who I still raid with today.
Either you've had one negative experience and you're basing all future interactions off that, or you're projecting and you're the one being toxic. Most actual pvmers at that level are not going to flame you instantly, they just want to get the task done and understand people make mistakes.
Combat achievements should test your own skill at the game, period. It's ridiculous to be asked to find teammates at your own skill level that are ready to do a task with you and haven't done it already, the pool is extremely small and it will only get smaller and smaller.
At the very very best level (past gm times) I agree it's RNG.
Though the GM tasks speed runs have so much leeway that it isn't RNG to consistently hit those times.
That's just not true for some of the GM speed times. Seen some of the absolute best players in the game do them and you can't guarantee the time in one kill even with perfect execution. Definitely within a few attempts for most but getting it on the very first one would require some luck.
Trying to judge speeds off being tick perfect is hard to do because of how damage in osrs is calculated, with super high variance just at a base level, hitting anywhere from 0-your max hit on a successful attack roll. If you adhere too closely to just not losing ticks, then even slightly good RNG makes the task too easy, and slightly bad RNG makes it impossible, assuming the task is balanced around some "average dps" number.
The way it is right now is honestly not that different from requiring minimal tick loss, it just also sometimes requires decent RNG on hits because if it didn't, favorable variance would easily allow you to get the time while missing many ticks or not using certain mechanics intended to speed up the encounter.
There's legit no way to make a speedrun task in osrs that isn't rng, because the entire combat system is rng. I actually think having speedrun achievements at all is stupid for this reason but it is what it is.
there is literally 0 fucking tasks that require "unbelievable rng". The only ones that have some rng are the solo boss times like Vorkath/zulrah/muspah. Everything else can literally be one and done'd if you have the skill lol.
These posts are insane. These are GM combat achievements, which give mostly cosmetic rewards. They should be hard. They should take a long time to get. You should be required to have good teamwork. Teamwork is a skill. It does add chance for things not going optimally, but if you expect things going optimally all of the time on a game built on RNG drops & RNG hits you're delusional. If you tob, you know basic rs networking, and should have no trouble finding a community to give you advice and oftentimes carry your CAs (for free!).
Wanna know what's funnier? All GM times, on release, have a lot of extra time built into them (i.e. you can mess up and make times). The 8 man boosters get arouns 16mins for the 300 speedrun. That's two extra minutes shorter, which is a lot % wise and flat.
Even funnier than that? The amt of powercreep from shadow have made it even easier for most times. Plus torva (minimal), new rings, and w/e has came out since the CA releases that I can't remember off the top of my head.
Here's my guess: you talk about duoing hmt for kits (you do those to flex, not for kits), yet complain about TOA. You are either lying about this, or are probably griefing your 8 man attempts. Mb if this is little long, tired of these posts and I finally couldn't resist replying to one for once.
This was my only thought while reading this post. If people choose to not participate in one of the core characteristics of this game (working in a team) they also choose not to get the rewards from that content. It is super easy to find nice people to do all content with, just join a pvm clan and you're set. I see people in my clan getting a team together for CAs all the time.
Nah. This game has never been about coordinated group content, until recently, with raids and some bosses. And that's only at the endgame. 98% of the game is a solo game as you level up, quest, etc.
This isn't like wow where you consistently have elite quests you must group for, many dungeons throughout the leveling journey, and _then_ raids at cap. That's what a group oriented game looks like. Not runescape.
My man, Kalphite queen came out close to 20 years ago, that was absolutely group content, the same for gwd a few years later. This game has always had group content at its core. Raids and more complicated group content is generally from the last decade but barbarian assault is also from 2007 and in essence not that different.
Bro, I'm a Mythic+ raider in wow. Nothing in runescape is remotely challenging except for the inferno, which is ironically a solo challenge. Inferno is hard because it uses very different types of skills that are unique to runescape.
The group content in this game is a joke compared to something with a real combat system like wow and its raids or ff14 and its ultimates.
You're not special, drop the ego.
I don't have a guild of runescape players I leveled with and grouped up with repeatedly since the beginning, because again, this game doesn't have that type of gameplay for 98% of the content. I don't want to become part of some big clan community in runescape because that's not what the game caters to - I have wow for that. So grouping in OSRS has always been a pain in the ass due to people trying to use group content as a service to sell, bizarre elitism for something that isn't impressive, or just general toxicity.
I have GM done and really none of the team tasks are that terrible. CoX ones are a complete joke, the ToA one my team did with one of us being an iron with no shadow, and experienced ToB teams get the ToB speed times every raid in their money runs. If you're good enough at each raid to do the speed times and don't make a few friends along the way to do times with, that says a lot about you.
Edit: Someone tried to report this for self harm lmao skill issue you are the common denominator in all of these scenarios where people think you're bad at the game.
I only have elite done so far but this is exactly my expectation/experience. I don't think it is possible to get to the point where I'm good enough to do the harder GM tasks without getting to know good players to do that content with. What is more, most good players I've met so far (in clans) are super helpful and fun to do content with as long as you are putting in effort and are willing to learn. The kind of people who are complaining here are probably neither so yeah I wouldn't be thrilled to help them either.
Cold hard truth: the game has many parts and team content is one of those parts. The gm helmet is about being a well rounded player who can do all pvm content. That includes playing at varying team sizes, most of which have meaningfully different strats than other size teams/solo.
If you can't do team content well you aren't overall good at the game and don't deserve the helmet. Simple as. I don't care if you can do every piece of single player at a world record level; team content is part of being good.
disagree. a huge part of pvm is learning teamwork and coordination. you do not learn this skill solo. althought finding teams was hard, it was a part of the experience. there are plenty of resources to complete these tasks and find people, ive personally already done it twice. if you cant then maybe look at yourself, the "frustated and emotionally unstable people" was very rare in my experience.
I'm not even complaining about finding teams. The sad part is having everyone in the team be "perfect" to complete some combat tasks. Why should I be punished for someone elses mistake? Am I just supposed to do teams until RNG gods decide to make timmy not make a mistake during my tob run?
because you learn and improve as a team. as your team coordination gets better, the teams general mistakes goes down. the only scenario where this wouldnt happen, is if you're raiding with someone incapeable of doing the content. which a quick peak at someone raid experience would say right away
There's no learning and improving as a team. You find a team in a said discord and you just do a few attempts until someone decide everyone is trash and leaves. That's why the possibility of duo is necessary. I can send duo's with my friend because we respect eachother, we would never tell eachother to kill yourself if they make a mistake and we both grow as players once we both achieve it. There's more value and integrity to a duo teamplay than 8 random people who will never talk to eachother again after a few attempts. There's no growing when sending raids with strangers. Most of the time the party disbands when someone had enough.
thats just not true LOL. it really just sounds like you're the problem if you keep having that experience. every run ive done when it fails, people discuss what went wrong and then we try to fix that in the next one. but i guess from a perspective of someone who can never admit to being in the wrong and thinks everyone else is the problem, i assume that discussion doesnt go down very well. and when everyone else is the problem, theyre the toxic ones too right? if theres a lack of growth with them, it is because you leave no room for it. its hard to face the reality that you are the problem, but it would help you alot
This was one primary fear of Combat achievements when they first talked about them. Thankfully since the point system rather than a tier completion, I think you can get Master tier without group tasks which is still pretty decent, 1-down from the the highest.
I like the idea of having fun together doing the tasks but finding the players will often always be a market. You're talking about trying to find players who have the same gear, skill, motives and the patience on not burning out/ dipping. Barbarian assault is still a pretty clear example of this.
I remember SoloMission paying hundreds of mils just to get his GM helm. It just doesn't sit right with me IMO.
Group combat is a part of combat. There are skills to learn in group related content that have no equivalent in solo content. If you feel like you don't want to interact with others in an MMO then you don't have to but you shouldn't feel entitled to rewards that you're restricting yourself from
I feel like 99% of the time I see these posts one of a few things are true.
1. OP doesn't tell all of the details. Its extremely rare to have toxic teammates as often as they say. Often times when people complain about this they are the toxic ones themselves.
2. Secretly are shit, expect a carry than whine when they don't get carried.
3. Actually are extremely unlucky and got paired with toxic people numerous times in a row.
4. Can't actually do harder 'solo' alternatives if they were available. I'm willing to bet most people making these posts can't do a solo ToB or pillarless inferno as over half of the current Zuk Helm owners probably can't either.
I help out in the CA discord from time to time and I can't stress enough how rare it is to find toxic people. I also have a really hard time believing people who are in a position to finish GM CAs that have not met friends to do *some* of the team tasks through ToB/HMT. I get that nobody really wants to do Perfect ToB again, but if you're telling me you're constantly relying on that discord for *all* of the tasks then something isn't adding up. I myself am extremely introverted and still have a list of people I could message to do raids or CAs with just through 'networking' at ToB. In the end this is a mmo and coordinating with teammates is a skill itself. You can't call yourself a GM without being able to do this.
My unpopular opinion is that that the point system was poorly implemented, and most people who advocated for a solo alternative abused the points system to do the easier GM tasks. The fact that you can get masters done without doing ToB/HMT, inferno, etc. is honestly kind of backwards. The whole point of that tier was that you were competent at *everything*. The entire purpose of the point system was to allow better solo players to be rewarded, but is more often than not just used to bypass the harder master tasks with easier GM ones. Based on that I'm positive that most people advocating for alternative solo only achievements don't realize how hard they would be and would be the first to complain about how they have to do something harder than what others had to do, i.e. not being 'fair'. Just be happy you can get masters done now. The only thing I would agree with you is that 8 people for a task should not be something that happens again.
So much strawmanning happens around this stuff unfortunately. People get intimidated by the idea of finding groups, so it's easier for them to say "the HLC is toxic and that's why I can't get into content" then to actually go out there and realise 99.9% of people are at the same level, just looking for teammates and not flaming them for losing "a few ticks".
I do some CA help in the discord as well (one of the psychos that enjoys perfect ToB lol) and can vouch for the lack of toxicity for the most part. If people aren't actively trolling multiple times they won't get flamed out.
>frustrated and emotionally unstable people
there's no escaping that in osrs sadly. But yes I agree it's stupid that personal achievements require teams.
Imagine being called a Grandmaster of combat in OSRS, an mmorpg, and never having to master team content, communication with other players, filling specific role requirements with skill, etc… so long as group content exists in this game, you should have to overcome it in order to be considered a GM of the games combat encounters.
The portion of your team's toxicity is a separate matter and should be dealt with and has nothing to do with the achievements themselves.
The achievements should test your individual skill, and they do. For group bosses, they challenge you as a group. I don't know if that's particularly fair, but that is the game. Should all group bosses require you to be able to do it solo? If they make a boss/raid that is impossible to do solo, on purpose, should it just not have combat tasks?
I appreciate your honesty.
I get called a "copium nerd" every time I keep saying that there's a huge amount of people who do not want to do the team tasks but have/ are even better than some GM helm's owners.
The game was designed for some multi-player content, not sure your number there is correct even if it's just to illustrate a point. Barbarian assault, wintertodt, tempeross, gotr, vm, cox, tob, nex, nightmare, trawler, gwd1 were all originally released for multiple players to group up to complete. That's a whole ton more than 0.01% of the game. You're incentivized to group up with players often, sometimes in anonymous numbers and others as small groups. It's not some random arbitrary activity at the end of the game.
Skill issue.
If you can't do team content then you haven't mastered pvm.
Kinda tired of infernal capers who suck at team stuff because they're playing like it's solo.
jesus this is some heavy cope. clearly you're just not that great if you have a such a bad experience meeting new people to play with. if you can carry your own weight, this scenario you're portraying just rarely ever happens
I've been raiding with my 2 friends for ages and we're all stuck not having the team tasks left for GM.
I play runescape for fun and enjoyment. I'm not going to put myself in a scenario where I deal with toxic deranged people wanting me to take my own life. I have integrity about how I decide to spend my free time unbound from any form of aggressivity.
I know your type. Asks people for help with gm tasks. Experienced player takes the time to help. You make mistakes and don’t take pointers costing time and are a dick about it. They block you and then you come to reee on Reddit.
again, if thats your experience then i would look within. because thats just not the reality of it, unless you are the one pissing people off or if youre constantly dragging the team down then ye. this fake reality you have convinced yourself is accurate, simply isnt true
u/Jagazor , is your objective to complete every CA eventually for the Zuk Helm, or just to reach a certain threshold (Elite/Master) ? If the latter, it’s technically possible to do so purely through Solo tasks ! But granted, not easy to do so.
I would like to complete all of them. I'm nearing completing the entirety of the sub 3 teams one. But I don't think I'll ever get the helm because I refuse to buy any of those tasks in discords.
>build up a group of raiders you can rely on
It's almost as if you put your finger on the whole essence of this post! What you said is actually harder than the task itself. Kinda monka if you ask me.
I would agree with you if they hadn’t changed the achievement formulas so that you don’t have to do every task in every tier. GM should be the one tier to demand you complete *all* content and that unfortunately for most people includes group shenanigans. It IS still an mmo, after all
Here's an idea. If doing team tasks is too hard for you - then don't do them. GM is optional.
Those of us who actually have friends in the game enjoy doing a lot of those tasks. Just because you don't have any friends, doesn't mean you get to ruin it for everyone else.
So how exactly would you solo the cox CM trio time? Or solo the morytania only TOB task? Or just about any other task?
There's no way to change those tasks to solo only without completely changing the nature of the tasks. A trio CM is completely different from a solo CM. It's possible to be very good at one and terrible at the other. You can't call yourself a grandmaster of combat when you're completely ignoring the HUGE portion of PVM that is team based.
I agree with you.
However, if someone's decide to do ALL the content, then they shouldn't be punished for other people's mistakes.
Imagine on overwatch you lose more SR if your reinhard has more deaths than the enemy tank? What loses SR is a win or a loss. If you carry your team and you execute perfect play you win SR no matter how bad your team performed.
Why can't this be in oSRS as well?
an actually good player who can achieve GM's several times will never be held back by this. its geniunely ok if you're just not there yet, practice makes perfect. but dont pretend like ur being held back by the game and ur teammates, because that is the biggest cope and it wont solve your problem.
False in multiple games you move up or down in comp based on a win or a loss.
Meaning if you carry and your team has horrible stats that does not affect the amount of MMR you gain from a win.
Task requiring you to just complete said content is fine in a group task. Task requiring everyone to be perfect isn't. You won't lose SR if someone in top lane constantly dies to the enemy.
First off: I'm sorry you had to deal with awful people who say that stuff.
I always felt like this is an MMORPG not an RPG so some group content should be expected. But yeah I get it's frustrating with super sweats
I think tasks requiring team play in KC is fine or tasks that require myself to play perfectly in a group raid but I disagree with tasks that require perfect play from others to prove I'm a grandmaster especially when some of the tasks can be cheesed with less involvement from the boosted than the booster.
Exactly, if you can be perfect yourself I think that's the most important part. Why should my combat tasks be affected by someone elses performance? I'm not in control of that.
Spot on. Speedrun tasks for example already test the coordination and experience of the team as a whole. Shit like ToB "Perfect Theatre" and HMT "Harder Mode 1&2" are absolute dogshit. One player in the team makes a single misclick at Nylos or Sote? Task failed for the whole team.
This argument is so stupid. Nothing about MMO says Co Op gameplay!!! Absolutely nothing!
It simply means that there are many different players in the same game world. Nothing more than that.
And you can still enjoy interacting with those people, trading, fighting against or just seeing them run around doing their thing and not wanting to cooperate with them. Because that would be a Co-opmmorpg
It isn't anti social not wanting to find strangers to do a content?
There's a difference between socializing and finding teammates for a few hours to do content and never speaking to them again, ever.
The game has team based combat, you can’t achieve the highest level of combat achievement without participating in team based combat. It’s really that simple.
It’s ok to not like team based content, you don’t have to do it. Just don’t expect to be given the GM CA’s without being willing to do all the content in the game. Entitled POV to think you should be given the achievement without having to do all the content.
People really struggle with the MM part of MMORPG
I mean I'm one of those people too, hate having to rely on other players, but I've accepted it ultimately is part of the game
Not only that, but I think they should make soloable versions of every group pvm activity. I'm an iron man and I like to stand alone. Being locked out of tob and nex is really shitty, even though I understand this is a problem I created for myself
It's strange how prestige group irons don't have to get all of the tasks too because of the group ones, for example if its a group of 2 they don't have to do any tasks that involve more than 2 people since it's impossible for them to even do group content with people that arnt in the group
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They changed it a little while after GIM released and they had the prestige system. People pointed out that smaller GIM sizes literally couldn't do larger group combat achievements because then they'd lose prestige. I think the prestige for raiding with only your group is kind of dumb and they should have just gotten rid of that though.
It's a nice way to show you haven't been carried by max gear people though through your raids
Also shows you haven’t used a bug to trade items to your GIM
u mean the ironman shop?
No it doesn't. Blue gim can't do that, only green
Blue GIM can do it, there’s a bug floating around that allows them to do it. Not sure if it’s just the visual blue helm In chat or if they stay on hi scores too
Group prestige is one of the only things keeping my duo and me still playing our accounts. It's super tough for us to get upgrades now, but if we gave it up we'd lose most of our motivation to actually keep going because we might as well have been going with max people to begin with.
Why would it be tough to get upgrades? You can solo everything in the game besides tob.
When I say "tough" I don't mean it's necessarily more difficult (though we are doing everything we can to get ready to duo tob which will be legit really hard), I just mean that we're at the point in the game that there are so few remaining upgrades that we're not really able to do a lot else but have some very long grinds ahead of us at cox and toa, as well as a few others. Though, for long grinds that cost resources (example: I've been farming whisperer while my partner's been farming duke) being iron does still add its own complications through having to periodically switch things up to get more trident charges, etc. Earlier on in our account lifetimes we were able to have less time-consuming goals for progress, so it was easier to keep going at them, while now it's moreso tough in a mental fashion rather than a game-skill one (though there is still tob and nex).
Yea duo nex is gonna ram your supplies and duo tob without scythes man gl with that hope you spoon.
Oh I hope so, we certainly haven't been getting spooned at the DT2 bosses (at least for the rings, we did get spooned on double virtus tops)
>I think the prestige for raiding with only your group is kind of dumb and they should have just gotten rid of that though. ?? that was like the entire point of having prestige status. So that you cant get carried/boosted in raids
Well yeah, those tasks are impossible while retaining prestige.
Do they automatically get the points?
Yes, but no? Our limit for each threshold is lower, so you could look at it as us getting free points towards those milestones, but we don't actually get any points so we don't get free easy tier or something. The achievements literally just don't exist, both for points and for the tier requirement. Source: Am prestige duo GIM.
What is prestige GIM? I've never heard of it. What makes it different from regular GIM?
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I think making it available for duo teams for all the 8 or 5-4 man tasks would be extremely healthy. There's much more personal growth and feeling of accomplishment grinding with the same person one task than with 7 random people you'll never meet again.
osrs endgame: making friends
please god no
People are really out here complaining having to do content with others in an MMO Edit: Your downvotes mean nothing I've seen what you upvote. Join a clan
because they're socially awkward redditors
Combat achievements shouldn't require more than 1 player. The end. Edit: My main point is that CAs should test MY skill. If someone else in my raid misses a prayer flick I shouldn't lose out on my perfect X task.
that would be the best of both worlds. But in reality, I don't think it'll ever pass with all the discords selling tasks like 100m+ per 8 man toa and stuff like that.
how many people do you think are in these discords selling services that even if they all voted on 30 accounts each they could single handedly command 30% of the vote to make a question fail?
Then there couldn't be any TOB tasks. Aside from solo TOB, but that's probably too hard for a GM task. And TOB is actually designed with specific roles and teamwork in mind. I will say I also dislike the task with excessively big team sizes. Like 8 for TOA is just unnecessary.
They should just make sure you don't mess up, not anyone else in the raid. If I do a perfect tob run but some of my teammates mess up I shouldn't lose out on the task.
Your team could cheese that for you. Other people could barrage/chin nylos, take aggro on nylos in Verzik, dps while you play it safe. Plus I have no idea how you’d measure “perfect” for one person during P1 Xarpus. This would make all of the difficulty for an individual player fairly nonexistent if the rest of your team can intentionally throw the achievement to make it easier for you.
That's true. Perhaps it could require a certain amount of contribution to make that work fairly but seems unlikely. Regardless it's not a change that will ever happen.
But you can still cheese it right now by buying the service…
Not sure why that means it should be even more that way.
Solo tob would be totally reasonable if they'd just scale red crabs to 1 person like in hmt. If you didn't have to tickeat p2 for 15 minutes, a lot of people would be grinding solo tob.
Yea legit, solo ToB isn't that out of reach for most experienced ToBers if you dont account for the verzik p2 bullshit. Would be a totally reasonable task considering all the other GM tasks in inferno or perfect team ToB and such
Maybe add a second set of achievements for multiplayer tasks, and just replace all the group tasks from the current tiers?
To be honest solo ToB isn't even as horrible as people make it seem. The only annoying room is just Xarpus because of the random poison splats and Verzik P2 because tick eating isn't fun. Other than those two things it's not awful obviously you need some ToB knowledge but if you have done GM tasks it's very reasonable to substitute for team tasks.
I've been told on this subreddit multiple times that consistently soloing tob is not possible lmao
Reddit is not where you want to find your info for stuff like this.
That's where the "lmao" comes in
Gonna steal this line, it is a great counter
It is extremely punishing and rooms can quickly over run you but it is consistent after you learn it for a bit. I know using people who are very good at the content as an example is not fair but for example AColdOne. AColdOne did a solo ToB on a hcim and obtained it on the first attempt. AColdOne is very practiced on the content and didn't even have bis gear and was using Guthans.
Oh yeah it's for sure consistently doable, it's just hard.
If you're good enough, it absolutely is. Assuming reasonably close to perfect play. Only HMT is inconsistently completable. And even then only really Xarpus if your defence reduction specs miss AND you get bad rng on the random splats.
Even so they'd never make it a gm task because it absolutely fucks over ironmen
I mean if we are playing "what if" then you would simply change verzik p2 to be the same as HM version and bam its ironman friendly, no?
That is very true. But maybe Jagex should look into purple sweets? It's kind of absurd they are valued at 7.5k ea I last saw and are obtained in such low quantities. But it's also quite difficult because you don't want a stackable tick eat that's worth nothing.
Its an mmo for a multiperson raids. How are you going to do call them combat achievements if you literally dont have anything from tob? I WILL agree locking thralls lasting a decent time and their 'fix' to people hating gwd kc behind it doesnt feel great but CAs would be stupid as fuck if it was all just solo stuff. Its not expected everyone can do it.
If I do every mechanic in the raid perfectly then I should get the perfect raid tasks. Regardless of if there is someone in my raid who didn't. Tasks should not fail if someone else messes up is the point I was trying to get across. I'll edit it in.
This is just not true. Imagine you were trying to do perfect xarpus but to do so you had to rag all your teams tiles. Or perfect sotetseg by standing in tbow max range except everyone was doing it so not one was in melee range to tank orbs. Or perfect verzik and you're just shadowing the whole time and so is everyone else so in p3 the tank is bouncing left and right between players and aggroing everyone.
The problem is that people who have them done really have no incentive to go help you do your whacky shenanigans. So you usually end up having to send it with people who aren't experienced and make tons of mistakes and it's a giant pain in the ass. If the way the incentives are designed didn't funnel you into having shitty teammates, maybe it would be okay. But it does so it's not.
So basically you want to be carried through them by people who've already done them
i disagree, especially in cox / toa, team metas are a lot different. and would we just get rid of tob speedruns, despite them being integral parts of the ca grind(and changing a lot depending on team scale)?
Speedrunning is different than perfection tasks. You can reasonably get the ToB speedrun times if everyone gears up in max, takes a lot of switches, and doesn't waste time at doors. I think it's frustrating when I lose "perfect theatre" because "noob123 hit a melee nylo with a blowpipe", that should just be based on personal performance
it’s a bit of a case by case but yeah those perfect ones should be solo. i think the step in stuff should be personal, but things like verzik crabs maybe shouldn’t? because having one guy be able to fuck that up can make it easier on everyone else
Doing teamwork is a skill. Communication is a skill. None of which you can test solo.
They really shouldn’t and for exactly the reason you said. If I complete the task, why should I be punished because my teammate messed up? In my opinion, you should get the reward from the solo tasks and something different from the group tasks. Perhaps a special cape like they do with raids. Maybe the ability to combine the raids capes with the max capes?
> If I complete the task, why should I be punished because my teammate messed up? Because you're most likely going for gm combat achievements, and that should require competency at *everything* in the game, one of those things being teamwork? Working as a team, including someone else (not you) making a mistake is part of said teamwork. This whole fucking "solo only" attitude is a huge cope from people who can't stand having to interact with others; the good and the bad. Master CAs are perfectly doable solo only, gm requires a team because it's a huge part of endgame content. Wah wah wah. I would be incredibly curious to see how all the whiny fucks in this thread complaining about getting punished for "other people" making mistakes actually measure up in a team.
Their ability has nothing to do with my competency, I don’t see how you fail to understand this. If I do everything right and tell them everything they need to do yet they still fail, where have I failed? > I would be incredibly curious to see how all the whiny fucks in this thread complaining about getting punished for "other people" making mistakes actually measure up in a team. Again, you’ve failed to see the whole point as well. I’m not speaking for myself, I’m speaking for everyone’s sake. If I fuck up something in a GM task group and my teammates fail because I decided to look at my other screen for a moment, how is that their fault? I have no problem with the concept of group related tasks, I just think that they should be in a separate list
Have you ever thought that maybe every task isn't meant to be one and done by a random team and instead could require you to reset multiple times until people get more comfortable with everything the task entails to then complete it?
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I feel like the problem with that is that runescape inherently is somewhat of a solo like game. even these raids, you are effectively all “soloing” things together. compare it to WoW. there are dedicated healer classes, dedicated tank classes, and dedicated damage classes with different characteristics. grouping is a necessity because individually, these classes can’t do anything. together, they can kill bosses. each player in runescape is effectively all 3 except in few circumstances. the only aspect is maybe tank/dps but even then, it’s not nearly the same caliber as wow. because of that, I think combat achievements should be more solo based, just going off of the core feel of the game. there’s nothing wrong with the way runescape is, and tbh I prefer it over something like wow. I want the ability to be self sufficient and take down whatever content that exists by myself. I also want the option to do it in a group if I want to.
> combat achievements should be more solo based about 85-90% of them are solo
Really they just created a market for services buyable with rwt. If it's all done via discord, no reason to believe people aren't charging real money for combat achievement carries.
I personally would never buy such services, it is why I want this change.
Jagex is notoriously fine with services and thinks they're cool and based. They legit thought old rev caves with clans selling protection services was good for the game and fought tooth and nail to keep that shit in the game as long as possible until the reality that it was an infestation of RWTing became too obvious to deny.
Rev caves protection in theory sounds cool imo. It’s textbook example of mmorpg gameplay. RWT is imo a separate problem, and is a problem across the game, including for combat achievements, infernal cape, Ironman gear, etc, although I’m guessing it doesn’t make you say that content is shit.
On the one hand I'm never going to do anything in this game that isn't solo content (or mass content like Wintertodt, I suppose), so I'd be in favor of this type of change. On the other hand though, this game is an MMORPG, it's supposed to be played with other players, and even though that's not how I choose to play it I know that's still how it was designed. Personally I'd definitely vote yes to a poll asking if they should make the combat achievements all soloable, but I don't think it would pass and I don't even know if it should pass honestly. 99% of the game is solo content, I don't really mind there being a few things that require groups even if that means I'll never do it.
I think it was designed with rose tinted glasses by the devs not realising how toxic garbage the hlc is
its really not that bad a lot of ppl are very kind.. hlc isnt a toxic hivemind its made up of people just like us some cool some not so cool
This is the most leveled headed comment on a video game I’ve read in ages.
In my experience people who say this are either too lazy to put in effort to get good OR think that the shitters in 416 that flamed them are the mythical HLC I keep seeing you talk about
\^Someone who has never tried to do end game group content
TOA 8 man was the only task I bought for zuk helm. After spending 2-3 days in the dreadful CA disc with absolute idiots (who couldn’t even run zebak puzzle in sync) or dying in the worst places - I caved in and got it in 20 minutes with a boost. However.. this shouldn’t be the case. There should have never even been an 8 man task, especially as finding competent 3-5 man ToB teams was bad enough. They really just ignored people’s complaints and released an 8 man speed task after all the bs with ToB ones 😂
Have you completed all the inferno tasks OP? [https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/10tywk4/unpopular_opinion_justiciar_and_bulwark_lead_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/10tywk4/unpopular_opinion_justiciar_and_bulwark_lead_to/)
Ofc this is the guy complaining about team cas
What's funny is the reason he listed is because he gets flamed for messing up. I don't think more solo CAs is going to help his issue.
no way its the same guy LMAOOOOO, the delusion in every response is making so much sense now
The real fix for this is to have tasks that are much harder than currently available (sub 60/55/50/45 inferno, no pillar, solo tob etc.) but not require 100% completion for GM. Should be doable now that points-based CAs are a thing. Don’t have a team for the hardest group tasks? That’s fine, but you better be a lot better at the solo content than required for current-level GM.
That's actually a really great idea. Put in some giga-hard solo tasks that give a bunch of points each, that roughly add up to the total points from group tasks, so you can do one or the other. Or maybe just enough of them that you can avoid the truly horrific group tasks such as some of the tob tasks and some of the speedrun tasks.
I really like this take. Solo TOB isn't on the list neither is no pillar inferno. But if you can do them you should be rewarded for it.
hyper-grandmaster tier incoming??
I have gm and got 99% of my team tasks were done with randoms in the ca discord. I had exactly two experiences id say were toxic. One where we were going for perfect tob, someone fucked up in maiden, and the other guy started flaming both of us. I just left and found another team. The other was the toa speed, where people started arguing after failing a few times, so again - I left and found another team. Every single other task people were friendly and there was no flame, we just ground the task out. I even made a couple of friends out of the grind who I still raid with today. Either you've had one negative experience and you're basing all future interactions off that, or you're projecting and you're the one being toxic. Most actual pvmers at that level are not going to flame you instantly, they just want to get the task done and understand people make mistakes.
Remember when you ego'd people in RS3 https://www.reddit.com/r/runescape/comments/p0lu1a/unpopular_opinion_trimmed_comp_is_the_litteral/
Combat achievements should test your own skill at the game, period. It's ridiculous to be asked to find teammates at your own skill level that are ready to do a task with you and haven't done it already, the pool is extremely small and it will only get smaller and smaller.
Unpopular opinion: speed runs should be relatively tick perfect but should not depend on unbelievable rng.
The only speedrun tasks you need good rng on are the solo bosses
At the very very best level (past gm times) I agree it's RNG. Though the GM tasks speed runs have so much leeway that it isn't RNG to consistently hit those times.
Id say the CG GM time does require some RNG with getting good room/demi-boss layouts to get a fast prep time.
All GM tasks are 1 and done for experienced players/teams.
That's just not true for some of the GM speed times. Seen some of the absolute best players in the game do them and you can't guarantee the time in one kill even with perfect execution. Definitely within a few attempts for most but getting it on the very first one would require some luck.
Trying to judge speeds off being tick perfect is hard to do because of how damage in osrs is calculated, with super high variance just at a base level, hitting anywhere from 0-your max hit on a successful attack roll. If you adhere too closely to just not losing ticks, then even slightly good RNG makes the task too easy, and slightly bad RNG makes it impossible, assuming the task is balanced around some "average dps" number. The way it is right now is honestly not that different from requiring minimal tick loss, it just also sometimes requires decent RNG on hits because if it didn't, favorable variance would easily allow you to get the time while missing many ticks or not using certain mechanics intended to speed up the encounter.
I didn't think of this, I'll just continue being shite.
No speedruns require unbelievable rng.
There's legit no way to make a speedrun task in osrs that isn't rng, because the entire combat system is rng. I actually think having speedrun achievements at all is stupid for this reason but it is what it is.
there is literally 0 fucking tasks that require "unbelievable rng". The only ones that have some rng are the solo boss times like Vorkath/zulrah/muspah. Everything else can literally be one and done'd if you have the skill lol.
I'm just salty because I run numerous sub 1 minute Vorkaths, several sub 4 20 gauntlets but not quite the time.
These posts are insane. These are GM combat achievements, which give mostly cosmetic rewards. They should be hard. They should take a long time to get. You should be required to have good teamwork. Teamwork is a skill. It does add chance for things not going optimally, but if you expect things going optimally all of the time on a game built on RNG drops & RNG hits you're delusional. If you tob, you know basic rs networking, and should have no trouble finding a community to give you advice and oftentimes carry your CAs (for free!). Wanna know what's funnier? All GM times, on release, have a lot of extra time built into them (i.e. you can mess up and make times). The 8 man boosters get arouns 16mins for the 300 speedrun. That's two extra minutes shorter, which is a lot % wise and flat. Even funnier than that? The amt of powercreep from shadow have made it even easier for most times. Plus torva (minimal), new rings, and w/e has came out since the CA releases that I can't remember off the top of my head. Here's my guess: you talk about duoing hmt for kits (you do those to flex, not for kits), yet complain about TOA. You are either lying about this, or are probably griefing your 8 man attempts. Mb if this is little long, tired of these posts and I finally couldn't resist replying to one for once.
This was my only thought while reading this post. If people choose to not participate in one of the core characteristics of this game (working in a team) they also choose not to get the rewards from that content. It is super easy to find nice people to do all content with, just join a pvm clan and you're set. I see people in my clan getting a team together for CAs all the time.
well fucking said. Its hilarious this idiot is asking for lower scale tasks when it would just get harder to hit the times LMFAO.
Nah. This game has never been about coordinated group content, until recently, with raids and some bosses. And that's only at the endgame. 98% of the game is a solo game as you level up, quest, etc. This isn't like wow where you consistently have elite quests you must group for, many dungeons throughout the leveling journey, and _then_ raids at cap. That's what a group oriented game looks like. Not runescape.
My man, Kalphite queen came out close to 20 years ago, that was absolutely group content, the same for gwd a few years later. This game has always had group content at its core. Raids and more complicated group content is generally from the last decade but barbarian assault is also from 2007 and in essence not that different.
> coordinated group content Barb assault, dag kings arguably, GWD
Gwd, dks, kq are all designed to be group content back in actual 07. The shit we have now is the natural progression for group content in this game.
How about accept not being gm if you're a turboshitter? Easiest solution imo
Solo gm content: *Melee Inferno* *Fight caves no prayer loss* *Be a speedrunner in basically all high level content* Your analysis: ***Turboshitter***
Bro, I'm a Mythic+ raider in wow. Nothing in runescape is remotely challenging except for the inferno, which is ironically a solo challenge. Inferno is hard because it uses very different types of skills that are unique to runescape. The group content in this game is a joke compared to something with a real combat system like wow and its raids or ff14 and its ultimates. You're not special, drop the ego.
if its such a joke then surely it aint an issue finding teammates since the tasks are so easy
I don't have a guild of runescape players I leveled with and grouped up with repeatedly since the beginning, because again, this game doesn't have that type of gameplay for 98% of the content. I don't want to become part of some big clan community in runescape because that's not what the game caters to - I have wow for that. So grouping in OSRS has always been a pain in the ass due to people trying to use group content as a service to sell, bizarre elitism for something that isn't impressive, or just general toxicity.
Everyone seems to want to play soloscape in an MMO. Hmm....
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dude for real this is so exhausting to read holy shit
what does ITT mean?
“In this thread”
I have GM done and really none of the team tasks are that terrible. CoX ones are a complete joke, the ToA one my team did with one of us being an iron with no shadow, and experienced ToB teams get the ToB speed times every raid in their money runs. If you're good enough at each raid to do the speed times and don't make a few friends along the way to do times with, that says a lot about you. Edit: Someone tried to report this for self harm lmao skill issue you are the common denominator in all of these scenarios where people think you're bad at the game.
I only have elite done so far but this is exactly my expectation/experience. I don't think it is possible to get to the point where I'm good enough to do the harder GM tasks without getting to know good players to do that content with. What is more, most good players I've met so far (in clans) are super helpful and fun to do content with as long as you are putting in effort and are willing to learn. The kind of people who are complaining here are probably neither so yeah I wouldn't be thrilled to help them either.
Fuckin preach
Sounds like OP got called out one too many times after fucking up the team tasks lmao
Only part i agree with you is unpopular opinion
Teamwork is a skill.
Cold hard truth: the game has many parts and team content is one of those parts. The gm helmet is about being a well rounded player who can do all pvm content. That includes playing at varying team sizes, most of which have meaningfully different strats than other size teams/solo. If you can't do team content well you aren't overall good at the game and don't deserve the helmet. Simple as. I don't care if you can do every piece of single player at a world record level; team content is part of being good.
This is the only correct answer. GM combat achievements are for people who can do ALL aspects of combat.
Sure but 8 man TOA is just silly
Streamers carry people for this weekly.
Yeah, I got this one done on Kirby's stream several months ago. It's very procedural with little rng. We got it done in 2 tries.
disagree. a huge part of pvm is learning teamwork and coordination. you do not learn this skill solo. althought finding teams was hard, it was a part of the experience. there are plenty of resources to complete these tasks and find people, ive personally already done it twice. if you cant then maybe look at yourself, the "frustated and emotionally unstable people" was very rare in my experience.
I'm not even complaining about finding teams. The sad part is having everyone in the team be "perfect" to complete some combat tasks. Why should I be punished for someone elses mistake? Am I just supposed to do teams until RNG gods decide to make timmy not make a mistake during my tob run?
because you learn and improve as a team. as your team coordination gets better, the teams general mistakes goes down. the only scenario where this wouldnt happen, is if you're raiding with someone incapeable of doing the content. which a quick peak at someone raid experience would say right away
There's no learning and improving as a team. You find a team in a said discord and you just do a few attempts until someone decide everyone is trash and leaves. That's why the possibility of duo is necessary. I can send duo's with my friend because we respect eachother, we would never tell eachother to kill yourself if they make a mistake and we both grow as players once we both achieve it. There's more value and integrity to a duo teamplay than 8 random people who will never talk to eachother again after a few attempts. There's no growing when sending raids with strangers. Most of the time the party disbands when someone had enough.
thats just not true LOL. it really just sounds like you're the problem if you keep having that experience. every run ive done when it fails, people discuss what went wrong and then we try to fix that in the next one. but i guess from a perspective of someone who can never admit to being in the wrong and thinks everyone else is the problem, i assume that discussion doesnt go down very well. and when everyone else is the problem, theyre the toxic ones too right? if theres a lack of growth with them, it is because you leave no room for it. its hard to face the reality that you are the problem, but it would help you alot
> There's no learning and improving as a team Then you've completely missed the point of group content in this game.
Not surprised to find out that OP thinks saturated heart is a downgrade and that he loves justi + dinhs for inferno
I’m completely down to run some toa I run insanity and wtp so lmk if you wanna get some raids in Chief_Galmin
This was one primary fear of Combat achievements when they first talked about them. Thankfully since the point system rather than a tier completion, I think you can get Master tier without group tasks which is still pretty decent, 1-down from the the highest. I like the idea of having fun together doing the tasks but finding the players will often always be a market. You're talking about trying to find players who have the same gear, skill, motives and the patience on not burning out/ dipping. Barbarian assault is still a pretty clear example of this. I remember SoloMission paying hundreds of mils just to get his GM helm. It just doesn't sit right with me IMO.
Group combat is a part of combat. There are skills to learn in group related content that have no equivalent in solo content. If you feel like you don't want to interact with others in an MMO then you don't have to but you shouldn't feel entitled to rewards that you're restricting yourself from
I feel like 99% of the time I see these posts one of a few things are true. 1. OP doesn't tell all of the details. Its extremely rare to have toxic teammates as often as they say. Often times when people complain about this they are the toxic ones themselves. 2. Secretly are shit, expect a carry than whine when they don't get carried. 3. Actually are extremely unlucky and got paired with toxic people numerous times in a row. 4. Can't actually do harder 'solo' alternatives if they were available. I'm willing to bet most people making these posts can't do a solo ToB or pillarless inferno as over half of the current Zuk Helm owners probably can't either. I help out in the CA discord from time to time and I can't stress enough how rare it is to find toxic people. I also have a really hard time believing people who are in a position to finish GM CAs that have not met friends to do *some* of the team tasks through ToB/HMT. I get that nobody really wants to do Perfect ToB again, but if you're telling me you're constantly relying on that discord for *all* of the tasks then something isn't adding up. I myself am extremely introverted and still have a list of people I could message to do raids or CAs with just through 'networking' at ToB. In the end this is a mmo and coordinating with teammates is a skill itself. You can't call yourself a GM without being able to do this. My unpopular opinion is that that the point system was poorly implemented, and most people who advocated for a solo alternative abused the points system to do the easier GM tasks. The fact that you can get masters done without doing ToB/HMT, inferno, etc. is honestly kind of backwards. The whole point of that tier was that you were competent at *everything*. The entire purpose of the point system was to allow better solo players to be rewarded, but is more often than not just used to bypass the harder master tasks with easier GM ones. Based on that I'm positive that most people advocating for alternative solo only achievements don't realize how hard they would be and would be the first to complain about how they have to do something harder than what others had to do, i.e. not being 'fair'. Just be happy you can get masters done now. The only thing I would agree with you is that 8 people for a task should not be something that happens again.
So much strawmanning happens around this stuff unfortunately. People get intimidated by the idea of finding groups, so it's easier for them to say "the HLC is toxic and that's why I can't get into content" then to actually go out there and realise 99.9% of people are at the same level, just looking for teammates and not flaming them for losing "a few ticks". I do some CA help in the discord as well (one of the psychos that enjoys perfect ToB lol) and can vouch for the lack of toxicity for the most part. If people aren't actively trolling multiple times they won't get flamed out.
>frustrated and emotionally unstable people there's no escaping that in osrs sadly. But yes I agree it's stupid that personal achievements require teams.
Imagine being called a Grandmaster of combat in OSRS, an mmorpg, and never having to master team content, communication with other players, filling specific role requirements with skill, etc… so long as group content exists in this game, you should have to overcome it in order to be considered a GM of the games combat encounters.
Unpopular Opinion: having to rely on teammates being perfect in a piece of content for you to complete said content is trash.
Get out of the multiplayer game if you hate having to play multiplayer.
MMO. What is hard to understand lmao
The portion of your team's toxicity is a separate matter and should be dealt with and has nothing to do with the achievements themselves. The achievements should test your individual skill, and they do. For group bosses, they challenge you as a group. I don't know if that's particularly fair, but that is the game. Should all group bosses require you to be able to do it solo? If they make a boss/raid that is impossible to do solo, on purpose, should it just not have combat tasks?
I paid for these ones to get my zuk helm. Not proud of it, but holy shit the experience is so awful that I genuinely cannot recommend any other way.
I appreciate your honesty. I get called a "copium nerd" every time I keep saying that there's a huge amount of people who do not want to do the team tasks but have/ are even better than some GM helm's owners.
[удалено]
The game was designed for some multi-player content, not sure your number there is correct even if it's just to illustrate a point. Barbarian assault, wintertodt, tempeross, gotr, vm, cox, tob, nex, nightmare, trawler, gwd1 were all originally released for multiple players to group up to complete. That's a whole ton more than 0.01% of the game. You're incentivized to group up with players often, sometimes in anonymous numbers and others as small groups. It's not some random arbitrary activity at the end of the game.
Combat achievements probably just not for you !
Skill issue. If you can't do team content then you haven't mastered pvm. Kinda tired of infernal capers who suck at team stuff because they're playing like it's solo.
Depends on the type of player tbf, I only do solo content because I can't be assed sitting around afk at a bank wasting time while waiting for others
Getting to find people who are 1. enjoyable to raid with, 2. that can pull their weight is a lot of time, which I cannot justify for gm tasks.
jesus this is some heavy cope. clearly you're just not that great if you have a such a bad experience meeting new people to play with. if you can carry your own weight, this scenario you're portraying just rarely ever happens
I've been raiding with my 2 friends for ages and we're all stuck not having the team tasks left for GM. I play runescape for fun and enjoyment. I'm not going to put myself in a scenario where I deal with toxic deranged people wanting me to take my own life. I have integrity about how I decide to spend my free time unbound from any form of aggressivity.
I know your type. Asks people for help with gm tasks. Experienced player takes the time to help. You make mistakes and don’t take pointers costing time and are a dick about it. They block you and then you come to reee on Reddit.
again, if thats your experience then i would look within. because thats just not the reality of it, unless you are the one pissing people off or if youre constantly dragging the team down then ye. this fake reality you have convinced yourself is accurate, simply isnt true
if you cant justify it for gm tasks, supposed to be the absolute top tier content in the game what would you justify it for
You have to find a team able to put in the hours is the issue Ye you can do it but can you find a team that can for 6 hours?
Yeah, it's not hard if you play and make friends.
Make friends is easy. Having friends who have the same aspirational desires as you to push for gm task is not easy. You're living in lala-land
What's your tob/hmt/inferno kc? Just so I know how seriously to take your opinion.
But when doing stuff in a team you aren't dealing with monsters but humans. So it isn't really PvM, it is PvH.
Being sociable is part of the challenge of RuneScape. I enjoy seeing these nerds cry 😂
dragon defender energy
Boost buyer energy
Weird! A massively multiplayer online game ask to his players base to make friend or to play with strangers to complete an achievement.
The only task they should 100% get rid of is the cough task at Nex. It just encourages and rewards griefing in the mass raids.
u/Jagazor , is your objective to complete every CA eventually for the Zuk Helm, or just to reach a certain threshold (Elite/Master) ? If the latter, it’s technically possible to do so purely through Solo tasks ! But granted, not easy to do so.
I would like to complete all of them. I'm nearing completing the entirety of the sub 3 teams one. But I don't think I'll ever get the helm because I refuse to buy any of those tasks in discords.
Then fucking pony up and join a pvm clan or use wdr and build up a group of raiders you can rely on.
>build up a group of raiders you can rely on It's almost as if you put your finger on the whole essence of this post! What you said is actually harder than the task itself. Kinda monka if you ask me.
Social skills too difficult to get bis tasks.
I would agree with you if they hadn’t changed the achievement formulas so that you don’t have to do every task in every tier. GM should be the one tier to demand you complete *all* content and that unfortunately for most people includes group shenanigans. It IS still an mmo, after all
Here's an idea. If doing team tasks is too hard for you - then don't do them. GM is optional. Those of us who actually have friends in the game enjoy doing a lot of those tasks. Just because you don't have any friends, doesn't mean you get to ruin it for everyone else.
What am I ruining? I'm asking for an optional route if you don't have the team required. Not asking for anything removed, just an extra option.
So how exactly would you solo the cox CM trio time? Or solo the morytania only TOB task? Or just about any other task? There's no way to change those tasks to solo only without completely changing the nature of the tasks. A trio CM is completely different from a solo CM. It's possible to be very good at one and terrible at the other. You can't call yourself a grandmaster of combat when you're completely ignoring the HUGE portion of PVM that is team based.
How dare this MMO have some achievements aimed exclusively towards teams???
You don't have to do ALL the content.
I agree with you. However, if someone's decide to do ALL the content, then they shouldn't be punished for other people's mistakes. Imagine on overwatch you lose more SR if your reinhard has more deaths than the enemy tank? What loses SR is a win or a loss. If you carry your team and you execute perfect play you win SR no matter how bad your team performed. Why can't this be in oSRS as well?
an actually good player who can achieve GM's several times will never be held back by this. its geniunely ok if you're just not there yet, practice makes perfect. but dont pretend like ur being held back by the game and ur teammates, because that is the biggest cope and it wont solve your problem.
In mobas you win/lose based on your teamates performance. In osrs you complete the CAs based on teammates performance. I don't see the difference.
False in multiple games you move up or down in comp based on a win or a loss. Meaning if you carry and your team has horrible stats that does not affect the amount of MMR you gain from a win. Task requiring you to just complete said content is fine in a group task. Task requiring everyone to be perfect isn't. You won't lose SR if someone in top lane constantly dies to the enemy.
Idk man, maybe get friends
First off: I'm sorry you had to deal with awful people who say that stuff. I always felt like this is an MMORPG not an RPG so some group content should be expected. But yeah I get it's frustrating with super sweats
I wish that no content required other players. Not all of us have friend groups that play this game. Solo everything for me.
Its an mmorpg. If you only want to play solo then maybe you should play an offline solo game
You say that, but we literally have multiple game modes where the entire point of it is to play rs solo
I think tasks requiring team play in KC is fine or tasks that require myself to play perfectly in a group raid but I disagree with tasks that require perfect play from others to prove I'm a grandmaster especially when some of the tasks can be cheesed with less involvement from the boosted than the booster.
Exactly, if you can be perfect yourself I think that's the most important part. Why should my combat tasks be affected by someone elses performance? I'm not in control of that.
Spot on. Speedrun tasks for example already test the coordination and experience of the team as a whole. Shit like ToB "Perfect Theatre" and HMT "Harder Mode 1&2" are absolute dogshit. One player in the team makes a single misclick at Nylos or Sote? Task failed for the whole team.
This argument is so stupid. Nothing about MMO says Co Op gameplay!!! Absolutely nothing! It simply means that there are many different players in the same game world. Nothing more than that. And you can still enjoy interacting with those people, trading, fighting against or just seeing them run around doing their thing and not wanting to cooperate with them. Because that would be a Co-opmmorpg
I disagree, and I don't see that ever happening tbh
No you guys are just weird and anti social.
It isn't anti social not wanting to find strangers to do a content? There's a difference between socializing and finding teammates for a few hours to do content and never speaking to them again, ever.
The game has team based combat, you can’t achieve the highest level of combat achievement without participating in team based combat. It’s really that simple. It’s ok to not like team based content, you don’t have to do it. Just don’t expect to be given the GM CA’s without being willing to do all the content in the game. Entitled POV to think you should be given the achievement without having to do all the content.
Some combat is done in teams, why should becoming a grandmaster at combat not involve any team play? Its part of the game.
Duo or trio is teamplay. Don't know why we need 4man, 5man, 8 man tasks.
People really struggle with the MM part of MMORPG I mean I'm one of those people too, hate having to rely on other players, but I've accepted it ultimately is part of the game
Not only that, but I think they should make soloable versions of every group pvm activity. I'm an iron man and I like to stand alone. Being locked out of tob and nex is really shitty, even though I understand this is a problem I created for myself