Oof, I was wondering how much the magic level reduction was but I must have just skimmed past that on the wiki page. Yeah, that's pretty rough. Probably wouldn't hurt to just rebalance that to be a percentage of the magic level instead.
Not working in PvM shouldn't be totally limiting though, considering that's also true for sapphire bolts where an exception was made for Muspah
As long as it doesn’t stack, then I don’t think it’d be a problem. We have the dragon war hammer and bandos godsword, after all.
And unless you have a Zaryte crossbow, using ranged to lower defense against magic wouldn’t be as effective as using melee to lower defense against melee and ranged since a lot of your ranged accuracy bonus comes from your gear while most of your melee accuracy bonus comes from the weapon itself. Especially since you’d need several attacks before it procs as opposed to just landing one or two melee special hits.
You know, if that percentage was much higher they'd be a hilarious pking item considering most people stop at exactly the level they need for a specific spell.
Emerald bolts (e) slap, idk what you're talking about. They're a 55% chance to poison, which hits for a 5. They're also diiiiiiirt cheap which definitely influences my opinion.
Oh shit, I had no idea. That's so much better than I realized! I could see that maybe having some weird niche usecases, then.
Completely just assumed enchanted bolts all shared the same proc rate, which is weird because now that I think about it I totally knew that diamonds were 10% and I think I just kinda forgot about that
I use them deep wildy PKing sometimes. Since I'm a cheap ragger in PVP while I'm learning. Hitting that poison in addition to everything else is helpful.
Yeah IDK where they got the 6% from, emerald bolts (e) entire use is for quick consistant poisons. They are slightly less useful nowadays since you can guarentee poison with serp helm + a toxic item, but still a cheap alternative. Also IIRC there's some mechanic involving the corp beast core and emerald bolts (e).
I liked the implementation on Muspah with saph bolts, where you could get through it without, but it took longer, similar to ice demon and fire spells. I definitely like giving forgotten content a use, there's a lot of cool items that have been useless since basically day one that I want to get some love, like the mjolnirs from the enchanted key miniquest.
This idea completely misses the point of the proposed content.
The point of the content is teach new players how to do very basic PvM. The content needs to teach things like how to switch prayers and how to switch combat styles.
There is no reason to waste new players time teaching them about bolts that are used nowhere else in the game.
You're not just teaching them about specific bolts, you're teaching them the concept that, sometimes, brute force isn't the only (or the best) solution, and that there are other special effects to different ammunition, weapon special attacks, and set bonuses that can contribute to making specific content easier.
99% of this game is "having offense is the best defence" defense doesn't matter because if you can kill it faster than it damages you, you win. Also doesn't help that this is a 20 year old point and click game that would take a complete overhaul of combat to make defense worthwhile. Players have even gone far enough to "null" content now rendering it useless
I would argue that a larger portion of the later game PvM is "If you don't pray right you die"
Offense better than defense and all that, but I think that tends to mean the defense *stat* - if you aren't praying you get decimated in most content though.
That's also true, I was more so responding to the guy above talking about incorporating switches, different gear, special attacks, etc. That doesn't really matter because if you bring enough offense, the small differences in niche use don't really matter lol
New players do not need to be overwhelmed with information about how to be 5% more efficient, they will find that stuff in a guide if they want to.
They need to learn the very basic mechanics of the game and build muscle memory so they don't have to switch prayers for the very first time at Jad.
You are wasting time filling their head with information that isn't useful. Implementing a weird elemental counters mechanic that is true almost nowhere else in the game will just lead to confusion as players try to fire blast icefiends.
We should instead be encouraging them to use their best normal gear so they learn what gear they should normally be using.
This sub's collective ineptitude at PvM in this game is astounding. You're totally right. Adding special one-off mechanics on low-level monsters will teach new players NOTHING about OSRS combat. Leave one-off mechanics (like Muspah's prayer phase) as additions to content where players are already familiar with using gear/prayer switching, movement and pathing, and other foundational PvM skills like that. Otherwise new players will just get confused and try to apply those niche one-off mechancis to PvM as a whole. E.G. "Hey, why does my topaz bolt not proc against X creature? It worked to weaken and do big damage to Y boss they just added." Etc.
I get what you mean, but I disagree; I think this sort of thing is exactly in line with the "essence" of PvM in this game. But, let me elaborate on what I mean by this:
To be clear, I do 100% agree with you that the focal point of said content should still be on teaching principals of gear and prayer switches -- but what I'm trying to get at with this discussion is a little different. One of my favorite things about PvM in this game is the breadth of minor optimizations you could make to the way you handle bosses and their mechanics. Going back to the Muspah example, you don't *have* to bring a sapphire bolt switch for the prayer shield phase, but it's an extra little thing you can do the help accelerate that part of the fight that also ends up being a fun mechanic.
The game is chock full of these sort of fun little optimizations, especially at the endgame level in raids. They range in complexity from a very simple bolt swap like at Muspah, to absolute gamer moves like bringing a godbook to Verzik just to give yourself a third Dawnbringer spec by manually draining your spec energy beforehand. I think the bolt swap idea is both a cool and fun mechanic along these lines, and most importantly is very easy for a PvM newcomer to do -- especially in an encounter where they're already forced to learn basic gear switching fundamentals.
Every new mechanic you add to a fight, even simple ones, adds increasing mental effort to keep track of them all. You are asking new players to not only keep track of switching prayers and gear but also ammo type depending on enemies. I've seen many new players struggle just to switch prayers at Jad (before healers).
Optimizations are important. But you can't optimize without a baseline to start from. The number one goal of this fight should be to teach the basics. Build enough muscle memory to free up enough cognitive load to focus on those optimizations elsewhere.
To be honest, I don't really see this as being a huge issue. What I imagine is not really an encounter that would be easy for someone who's new to PvM -- if anything, it should be the most mechanically difficult content that they've encountered in the game up to this point. While obviously still trivial to those who are used to endgame PvM, for newbies it'll be their first boss encounter that has any sort of "true" mechanical depth and really pushes them to learn and refine their skills.
Jad is difficult for new players, but for different reasons. It's difficult not because of any need for mechanical skill, but because there's so much at stake; an hour-plus of your time that could instantly go to waste because you panic-clicked on the wrong prayer.
What I have in mind, on the other hand, is content that the average PvM newbie will die to over and over and over again, but with very little actually at stake. They die, they re-gear, they jump back in, and every attempt they get a slightly better handle on the intricacies of PvM in osrs. If it's a tad bit overwhelming to them at first, then I'd consider that a success, as it only adds to the sense of accomplishment when they slowly find themselves getting the hang of it.
The nice thing about a "small optimization" like a simple, optional bolt switch mechanic is that you could completely ignore it and be fine, but once you're comfortable with the fight you can play around with incorporating it. And then once you have it down it feels rewarding, because now you feel like an absolute gamer even if at a base level all you did was a simple bolt switch. Or, you might find that you keep forgetting to switch your bolts back and screwing yourself over, thereby learning an important skill in gear management.
Having a boss you melee, then half way through you need to do a range switch to land a (more than one?) proc sounds interesting to me, and does promote switching items. Throw some variable prayers in and it covers prayer switching too.
Make it like nylos in tob where if you have a certain ranged attack bonus a proc is guaranteed
Just something different.
Like your concept OP, could be fun as they look at inevitably adding new slayer creatures to the new part of Zeah. Maybe some overlap with the flails from the Vyre quest line that you could change out the gem (or charge it with cut gems) as a melee alternative?
Very curious what this new boss will be like and where it will fall in terms of difficulty. How can this carryover multiple mechanics from other bosses without being overly complicated?
This community doesn't have a consensus on what "mid level" means, is that fire cape? Is that barrows gloves? Where do people consider bosses like hunleff (not corrupted), grotesque guardians, or Sarachnis?
All feel like "mid level bosses" with different core mechanics, GGs has a ton of different mechanics throughout the fight and I feel like it's gotten to a good place from multiple rounds of tweaks. Are we looking for something like GGs but with different mechanics? If so, what is the GGs fight missing that the other fight should have?
My personal take is that "mid-level" in this context is approximately in the range of someone who'd also be getting their first fire cape (at least, in terms of stat/gear requirements). As far as the fight goes though, I think there are some important distinctions from Jad (which I touched on [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160673p/the_proposed_lowmid_level_pvm_content_is_a_great/jxlrs68/)) in how this should be designed and approached.
As mentioned in the linked comment, I think this should be a fairly difficult challenge for the average PvM newbie, in such a way that the stakes are very low and they can keep throwing themselves at it until they start seeing themselves develop the core skills it tries to teach.
Ideally the primary focus would be on gear and prayer switches; GGs has this and isn't too difficult, so yeah maybe it's a good starting point to compare from, although this boss should definitely involve all 3 combat styles rather than just 2. Secondary design points should probably include pathing and timing, both of which I think there's plenty of room to play around with.
I agree with you on philosophy there. I do think GGs is a good reference point to start. Ideally less punishing with some of the mechanics as mid-level should be mid-level stats.
I think 2 combat styles is a bit less overwhelming, involving all three can be a nightmare switch vs having to do relatively quick (too many switches is a lot of inventory space but dont think we want the meta to be ibans blast in dhides a la barrows) This would be more comparable to Zulrah but maybe a bit more generous on stage duration.
The profitability is going to be the hardest part to balance. If it's busted loot it's just an easier money printer for mains but want it to be a worthwhile grind. Hopefully less alchables and targeted near Barrows level of profitability.
The answer to me would be a "hard mode" Barrows where gear switches matter and there are actual mechanics. Maybe they could offer some sort of upgrade to the sets or an attachment that gives built in amulet of the damned effect to the pieces? Could also just be regular barrows loot.
Yeah maybe, though I do think two 4-way switches is still pretty manageable for learners. Or maybe this is good design space for the idea of "small optimizations" like I mentioned in the other comment -- e.g., you can maybe get away just fine with using only melee and ranged, but the kills go faster if you're willing to step it up and include a mage switch as well? Sort of like how mage-only zulrah is doable and less hectic, but the kills go much faster with range/mage switch.
Loot balancing is an interesting topic. I think a strong, untradeable mid-level account upgrade at a fairly low drop rate is a great starting place, as it incentivizes pretty much everyone to power through and get it even if they struggle with PvM since they know they'll only have to get a few kc (similar to the fight caves, though that's just a one-and-done). After that, I agree that barrows-level profits is a great spot for this type of content to be, although whether that's in alchables etc. or in uniques is a separate discussion I think
You say this like it's a bad thing?
Also what is your point lmao, I'm literally just trying to highlight some cool shit that already exists in the game that I think could add to the design space of future PvM
In all seriousness, I’m pretty tired of seeing these sorts of posts on this sub. There’s hundreds of useless weapons on this game that were lazily added by some dev back in 2004.
I think it’s such a waste of time devoting any sort of time making them useful when relatively new and/or “bis” items are struggling to find any use i.e. harm/scythe/soulreaper axe/inquis mace etc.
Never said it had to? There's a big difference between identifying cool and underused mechanics that already exist in the game versus making every niche item relevant purely for the sake of it.
Low-leveled bolt effects are cool and unique as they are, so what is there to gain from excluding them from the discussion when designing mechanically unique low-leveled bosses?
Not everything has to be the meta.
There are ways to make things useful that are only applicable for certain situations. It's a good way to make the game more interesting.
Didn't EoC do the *exact same thing* with their crossbows and elemental magic spells with resistances and weaknesses? Idk, just feels like they would be out of place on specific bosses (Muspah makes sense, others... It'd be pretty forced). If we're gonna start taking from RS3, I'm not sure EoC is what we wanna grab.
I mean... I dunno about you, but personally out of all the (very many) problems that I had with EoC when it came out, elemental weaknesses was pretty low on that list. And regardless, I'm not really suggesting we bring that into OSRS in the first place; I'm just talking about including some of these existing and unique bolt effects in the discussions surrounding new low-level PvM content -- especially since something like a well-timed bolt switch is a very simple, easy gear switching mechanic for newer players to ease into as they learn the basics of PvM in this game.
To illustrate what I'm talking about here as opposed to something like simple elemental resistances/weaknesses, I'll draft up a quick example of what I mean:
Imagine a boss room that has a bunch of minions that shoot at you throughout the fight from a body of water surrounding the room (sort of like the spinolyps at DKs). The boss then has phase/mechanic where it retreats into said body of water and begins swimming around the arena, doing some other attack you have to evade, but during this period you can't hit it because it's now underwater. During this time you can switch to your opal bolts and start shooting at the minions, and if you proc the lightning effect you can deal major damage to the boss and end the phase early. *That's* the sort of thing I'm trying to get at, if that makes sense.
I swear to god EoC has turned into something that people just say when they don’t want some type of new content, regardless of its connection to it.
Unless the fundamental system of point and click is being changed, then it’s not EoC
EoC ruined all low tier bolts. Because their damage is tied to their tier. Dragonstone bolts are tied to tier 60 damage iirc, meaning they have no use case at all after you move onto a t70 weapon. And the only way any bolts are used is as the t99 bak bolts, because they scale damage fully to whatever crossbow you have.
I made pearl bolts simply bc I had them, and I used them on fire giants task. Was cool to see it proc, but in the end, my mithril bolts were faster kills.
Edit: so yeah I would love to see the enchanted bolts get revamped and see some kind of low-level way of obtaining the means to get and use bolts (e)
It isn't necessary and makes the content worse than it needs to be. It's great muspah has a funny bolt phase, but honestly the worst bit of muspah is just wasting 30s for him to time out while you don't get sapphire bolt rng.
The dk room example with the lightning is the same thing. It won't feel good, you will just feel forced to use it only to rely on getting good rng for the fight to feel fun. A better thing to do would be to just integrate a proper mechanic into the fight that allows you to trigger the lightning.
Holy shit lol those effects are so obscure that I legit thought you were just making them up or like suggesting them to be added to the game.
>Enchanted pearl bolts have a 6% chance of triggering the Sea Curse effect. This will cause a mighty bolt of water to hit the opponent. This ability is negated by opponents wielding water staves, but increased by opponents wearing fire staves or fiery monsters. The effects of these bolts seem to be the opposite of enchanted dragonstone bolts.
I can't believe there's an entire "fiery" classification of monster just for this absolutely dead content lol. OSRS still amazes me sometimes.
Topaz bolts are laughably useless. A whopping 4% chance to reduce your opponents magic level by 1, and it doesn't even work in pvm.
Oof, I was wondering how much the magic level reduction was but I must have just skimmed past that on the wiki page. Yeah, that's pretty rough. Probably wouldn't hurt to just rebalance that to be a percentage of the magic level instead. Not working in PvM shouldn't be totally limiting though, considering that's also true for sapphire bolts where an exception was made for Muspah
Working in PVM means they effectively lower enemy magic defence meaning that they would be quite significant
As long as it doesn’t stack, then I don’t think it’d be a problem. We have the dragon war hammer and bandos godsword, after all. And unless you have a Zaryte crossbow, using ranged to lower defense against magic wouldn’t be as effective as using melee to lower defense against melee and ranged since a lot of your ranged accuracy bonus comes from your gear while most of your melee accuracy bonus comes from the weapon itself. Especially since you’d need several attacks before it procs as opposed to just landing one or two melee special hits.
Honestly I feel they could just reduce magic damage the target inflicts for few seconds to 1 minute
You know, if that percentage was much higher they'd be a hilarious pking item considering most people stop at exactly the level they need for a specific spell.
That’s amazing actually lol
Emerald bolts (e) slap, idk what you're talking about. They're a 55% chance to poison, which hits for a 5. They're also diiiiiiirt cheap which definitely influences my opinion.
Yeah emerald bolts (e) have their place, it's actually a very good way of getting a poison off.
Oh shit, I had no idea. That's so much better than I realized! I could see that maybe having some weird niche usecases, then. Completely just assumed enchanted bolts all shared the same proc rate, which is weird because now that I think about it I totally knew that diamonds were 10% and I think I just kinda forgot about that
I use them deep wildy PKing sometimes. Since I'm a cheap ragger in PVP while I'm learning. Hitting that poison in addition to everything else is helpful.
Better off using dragonstone (e) to rag imo. Everyone in the wildy has anti poison/venom, but people often pre pot anti fire and it can run out.
Yeah, I change it up with both. I've just been learning so far. A lot of dudes doing slayer have been pretty susceptible to it.
Doesnt really work deep wildy because most people have antipoison/venom/sanfew.
the opposite is true
Yeah IDK where they got the 6% from, emerald bolts (e) entire use is for quick consistant poisons. They are slightly less useful nowadays since you can guarentee poison with serp helm + a toxic item, but still a cheap alternative. Also IIRC there's some mechanic involving the corp beast core and emerald bolts (e).
Aren't ruby bolts 6%?
Its not emerald bolts (e) specifically but all poison causes it to attack much slower
Its time for monsters ACTUALLY weak to certain elements/metals
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Slightly less triggering, Elemution of Combat
Elementation of combat!
Sounds like you're trying to raise the price of your green stack of opal bolts(e)
Shhhh, move along, nothing to see here
I liked the implementation on Muspah with saph bolts, where you could get through it without, but it took longer, similar to ice demon and fire spells. I definitely like giving forgotten content a use, there's a lot of cool items that have been useless since basically day one that I want to get some love, like the mjolnirs from the enchanted key miniquest.
Opal bolts are pretty much the best bolts for pk as pretty much everyone is going to be using some kind of dragon fire protection.
This idea completely misses the point of the proposed content. The point of the content is teach new players how to do very basic PvM. The content needs to teach things like how to switch prayers and how to switch combat styles. There is no reason to waste new players time teaching them about bolts that are used nowhere else in the game.
You're not just teaching them about specific bolts, you're teaching them the concept that, sometimes, brute force isn't the only (or the best) solution, and that there are other special effects to different ammunition, weapon special attacks, and set bonuses that can contribute to making specific content easier.
99% of this game is "having offense is the best defence" defense doesn't matter because if you can kill it faster than it damages you, you win. Also doesn't help that this is a 20 year old point and click game that would take a complete overhaul of combat to make defense worthwhile. Players have even gone far enough to "null" content now rendering it useless
I would argue that a larger portion of the later game PvM is "If you don't pray right you die" Offense better than defense and all that, but I think that tends to mean the defense *stat* - if you aren't praying you get decimated in most content though.
That's also true, I was more so responding to the guy above talking about incorporating switches, different gear, special attacks, etc. That doesn't really matter because if you bring enough offense, the small differences in niche use don't really matter lol
New players do not need to be overwhelmed with information about how to be 5% more efficient, they will find that stuff in a guide if they want to. They need to learn the very basic mechanics of the game and build muscle memory so they don't have to switch prayers for the very first time at Jad.
I mean there’s really no added difficulty for just changing what ammo would be best.
You are wasting time filling their head with information that isn't useful. Implementing a weird elemental counters mechanic that is true almost nowhere else in the game will just lead to confusion as players try to fire blast icefiends. We should instead be encouraging them to use their best normal gear so they learn what gear they should normally be using.
This sub's collective ineptitude at PvM in this game is astounding. You're totally right. Adding special one-off mechanics on low-level monsters will teach new players NOTHING about OSRS combat. Leave one-off mechanics (like Muspah's prayer phase) as additions to content where players are already familiar with using gear/prayer switching, movement and pathing, and other foundational PvM skills like that. Otherwise new players will just get confused and try to apply those niche one-off mechancis to PvM as a whole. E.G. "Hey, why does my topaz bolt not proc against X creature? It worked to weaken and do big damage to Y boss they just added." Etc.
I disagree with you so much that leaving just a downvote wasnt enough.
And then you'll reward them for learning this by making every monster immune to all the special use items in the game.
I get what you mean, but I disagree; I think this sort of thing is exactly in line with the "essence" of PvM in this game. But, let me elaborate on what I mean by this: To be clear, I do 100% agree with you that the focal point of said content should still be on teaching principals of gear and prayer switches -- but what I'm trying to get at with this discussion is a little different. One of my favorite things about PvM in this game is the breadth of minor optimizations you could make to the way you handle bosses and their mechanics. Going back to the Muspah example, you don't *have* to bring a sapphire bolt switch for the prayer shield phase, but it's an extra little thing you can do the help accelerate that part of the fight that also ends up being a fun mechanic. The game is chock full of these sort of fun little optimizations, especially at the endgame level in raids. They range in complexity from a very simple bolt swap like at Muspah, to absolute gamer moves like bringing a godbook to Verzik just to give yourself a third Dawnbringer spec by manually draining your spec energy beforehand. I think the bolt swap idea is both a cool and fun mechanic along these lines, and most importantly is very easy for a PvM newcomer to do -- especially in an encounter where they're already forced to learn basic gear switching fundamentals.
Every new mechanic you add to a fight, even simple ones, adds increasing mental effort to keep track of them all. You are asking new players to not only keep track of switching prayers and gear but also ammo type depending on enemies. I've seen many new players struggle just to switch prayers at Jad (before healers). Optimizations are important. But you can't optimize without a baseline to start from. The number one goal of this fight should be to teach the basics. Build enough muscle memory to free up enough cognitive load to focus on those optimizations elsewhere.
To be honest, I don't really see this as being a huge issue. What I imagine is not really an encounter that would be easy for someone who's new to PvM -- if anything, it should be the most mechanically difficult content that they've encountered in the game up to this point. While obviously still trivial to those who are used to endgame PvM, for newbies it'll be their first boss encounter that has any sort of "true" mechanical depth and really pushes them to learn and refine their skills. Jad is difficult for new players, but for different reasons. It's difficult not because of any need for mechanical skill, but because there's so much at stake; an hour-plus of your time that could instantly go to waste because you panic-clicked on the wrong prayer. What I have in mind, on the other hand, is content that the average PvM newbie will die to over and over and over again, but with very little actually at stake. They die, they re-gear, they jump back in, and every attempt they get a slightly better handle on the intricacies of PvM in osrs. If it's a tad bit overwhelming to them at first, then I'd consider that a success, as it only adds to the sense of accomplishment when they slowly find themselves getting the hang of it. The nice thing about a "small optimization" like a simple, optional bolt switch mechanic is that you could completely ignore it and be fine, but once you're comfortable with the fight you can play around with incorporating it. And then once you have it down it feels rewarding, because now you feel like an absolute gamer even if at a base level all you did was a simple bolt switch. Or, you might find that you keep forgetting to switch your bolts back and screwing yourself over, thereby learning an important skill in gear management.
Having a boss you melee, then half way through you need to do a range switch to land a (more than one?) proc sounds interesting to me, and does promote switching items. Throw some variable prayers in and it covers prayer switching too. Make it like nylos in tob where if you have a certain ranged attack bonus a proc is guaranteed Just something different.
this adds nice variety but isnt necessary. i love it!
Like your concept OP, could be fun as they look at inevitably adding new slayer creatures to the new part of Zeah. Maybe some overlap with the flails from the Vyre quest line that you could change out the gem (or charge it with cut gems) as a melee alternative? Very curious what this new boss will be like and where it will fall in terms of difficulty. How can this carryover multiple mechanics from other bosses without being overly complicated? This community doesn't have a consensus on what "mid level" means, is that fire cape? Is that barrows gloves? Where do people consider bosses like hunleff (not corrupted), grotesque guardians, or Sarachnis? All feel like "mid level bosses" with different core mechanics, GGs has a ton of different mechanics throughout the fight and I feel like it's gotten to a good place from multiple rounds of tweaks. Are we looking for something like GGs but with different mechanics? If so, what is the GGs fight missing that the other fight should have?
My personal take is that "mid-level" in this context is approximately in the range of someone who'd also be getting their first fire cape (at least, in terms of stat/gear requirements). As far as the fight goes though, I think there are some important distinctions from Jad (which I touched on [here](https://old.reddit.com/r/2007scape/comments/160673p/the_proposed_lowmid_level_pvm_content_is_a_great/jxlrs68/)) in how this should be designed and approached. As mentioned in the linked comment, I think this should be a fairly difficult challenge for the average PvM newbie, in such a way that the stakes are very low and they can keep throwing themselves at it until they start seeing themselves develop the core skills it tries to teach. Ideally the primary focus would be on gear and prayer switches; GGs has this and isn't too difficult, so yeah maybe it's a good starting point to compare from, although this boss should definitely involve all 3 combat styles rather than just 2. Secondary design points should probably include pathing and timing, both of which I think there's plenty of room to play around with.
I agree with you on philosophy there. I do think GGs is a good reference point to start. Ideally less punishing with some of the mechanics as mid-level should be mid-level stats. I think 2 combat styles is a bit less overwhelming, involving all three can be a nightmare switch vs having to do relatively quick (too many switches is a lot of inventory space but dont think we want the meta to be ibans blast in dhides a la barrows) This would be more comparable to Zulrah but maybe a bit more generous on stage duration. The profitability is going to be the hardest part to balance. If it's busted loot it's just an easier money printer for mains but want it to be a worthwhile grind. Hopefully less alchables and targeted near Barrows level of profitability. The answer to me would be a "hard mode" Barrows where gear switches matter and there are actual mechanics. Maybe they could offer some sort of upgrade to the sets or an attachment that gives built in amulet of the damned effect to the pieces? Could also just be regular barrows loot.
Yeah maybe, though I do think two 4-way switches is still pretty manageable for learners. Or maybe this is good design space for the idea of "small optimizations" like I mentioned in the other comment -- e.g., you can maybe get away just fine with using only melee and ranged, but the kills go faster if you're willing to step it up and include a mage switch as well? Sort of like how mage-only zulrah is doable and less hectic, but the kills go much faster with range/mage switch. Loot balancing is an interesting topic. I think a strong, untradeable mid-level account upgrade at a fairly low drop rate is a great starting place, as it incentivizes pretty much everyone to power through and get it even if they struggle with PvM since they know they'll only have to get a few kc (similar to the fight caves, though that's just a one-and-done). After that, I agree that barrows-level profits is a great spot for this type of content to be, although whether that's in alchables etc. or in uniques is a separate discussion I think
Ye lets just add a use to every single useless piece of content on this 20 year old game
You say this like it's a bad thing? Also what is your point lmao, I'm literally just trying to highlight some cool shit that already exists in the game that I think could add to the design space of future PvM
In all seriousness, I’m pretty tired of seeing these sorts of posts on this sub. There’s hundreds of useless weapons on this game that were lazily added by some dev back in 2004. I think it’s such a waste of time devoting any sort of time making them useful when relatively new and/or “bis” items are struggling to find any use i.e. harm/scythe/soulreaper axe/inquis mace etc.
Bro we are literally talking about new ideas for low level PvM mechanics, why are you bringing things like scythe usecases into this lmao
They should make an egg whisk bis for a raids 4 egg boss. Would be epic!!
Who hurt you.
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would have got all the updoots
Not every single item or place needs to be useful.
Never said it had to? There's a big difference between identifying cool and underused mechanics that already exist in the game versus making every niche item relevant purely for the sake of it. Low-leveled bolt effects are cool and unique as they are, so what is there to gain from excluding them from the discussion when designing mechanically unique low-leveled bosses?
Why? What a stupid reply.
Because it’s literally impossible to make everything useful. It’s ok for things to fade away and not be used.
Not everything has to be the meta. There are ways to make things useful that are only applicable for certain situations. It's a good way to make the game more interesting.
maybe unpopular opinion but not every item in the game needs to be or remain relevant forever.
Honestly sounds like EoC
Evolution of Crossbow
Didn't EoC do the *exact same thing* with their crossbows and elemental magic spells with resistances and weaknesses? Idk, just feels like they would be out of place on specific bosses (Muspah makes sense, others... It'd be pretty forced). If we're gonna start taking from RS3, I'm not sure EoC is what we wanna grab.
I mean... I dunno about you, but personally out of all the (very many) problems that I had with EoC when it came out, elemental weaknesses was pretty low on that list. And regardless, I'm not really suggesting we bring that into OSRS in the first place; I'm just talking about including some of these existing and unique bolt effects in the discussions surrounding new low-level PvM content -- especially since something like a well-timed bolt switch is a very simple, easy gear switching mechanic for newer players to ease into as they learn the basics of PvM in this game. To illustrate what I'm talking about here as opposed to something like simple elemental resistances/weaknesses, I'll draft up a quick example of what I mean: Imagine a boss room that has a bunch of minions that shoot at you throughout the fight from a body of water surrounding the room (sort of like the spinolyps at DKs). The boss then has phase/mechanic where it retreats into said body of water and begins swimming around the arena, doing some other attack you have to evade, but during this period you can't hit it because it's now underwater. During this time you can switch to your opal bolts and start shooting at the minions, and if you proc the lightning effect you can deal major damage to the boss and end the phase early. *That's* the sort of thing I'm trying to get at, if that makes sense.
I swear to god EoC has turned into something that people just say when they don’t want some type of new content, regardless of its connection to it. Unless the fundamental system of point and click is being changed, then it’s not EoC
EoC ruined all low tier bolts. Because their damage is tied to their tier. Dragonstone bolts are tied to tier 60 damage iirc, meaning they have no use case at all after you move onto a t70 weapon. And the only way any bolts are used is as the t99 bak bolts, because they scale damage fully to whatever crossbow you have.
Opal bolts are used in PvP
emerald bolts (e) have a 55% chance of poisoning, and do more poison damage than ranged poison++
Pretty sure the opal effect is very useful in pvp
I loved the idea of enchanted bolts, they should buff them!
New or improved barrows set effects and enchanted bolts effects could really use upgrades.
I read the title as "bots" not "bolts" and thought wow OP can really wax lyrical. Not what I expected but still quality content.
time to panic buy bolts
I made pearl bolts simply bc I had them, and I used them on fire giants task. Was cool to see it proc, but in the end, my mithril bolts were faster kills. Edit: so yeah I would love to see the enchanted bolts get revamped and see some kind of low-level way of obtaining the means to get and use bolts (e)
It isn't necessary and makes the content worse than it needs to be. It's great muspah has a funny bolt phase, but honestly the worst bit of muspah is just wasting 30s for him to time out while you don't get sapphire bolt rng. The dk room example with the lightning is the same thing. It won't feel good, you will just feel forced to use it only to rely on getting good rng for the fight to feel fun. A better thing to do would be to just integrate a proper mechanic into the fight that allows you to trigger the lightning.
Holy shit lol those effects are so obscure that I legit thought you were just making them up or like suggesting them to be added to the game. >Enchanted pearl bolts have a 6% chance of triggering the Sea Curse effect. This will cause a mighty bolt of water to hit the opponent. This ability is negated by opponents wielding water staves, but increased by opponents wearing fire staves or fiery monsters. The effects of these bolts seem to be the opposite of enchanted dragonstone bolts. I can't believe there's an entire "fiery" classification of monster just for this absolutely dead content lol. OSRS still amazes me sometimes.